Whirlaway or NO Whirlaway [Archive]

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 12:31 AM

I would appreciate your views as to their safety value to our slow circle boats {average speed is under 60 mph}. I am aware that APBA requires them as well as drag boats under a certain E.T. but are they really worth the moola and requiring them?? We are in the difficult process of adding and deleting rules to our Nostalgic racing classes and I value everyones opinion here in the forum. I run one in the faster hull {averages 65 mph for three laps}, but at what speed should they be required? I will take your input to the rules meeting. Thanks in advance! Jerkster..Hates to discourage any nostalgic racer new or old :confused: !

Rexone

10-10-2002, 12:43 AM

CJ, While I am a strong advocate of everything safety, I'd think that 60-65 would be a pretty safe speed to experience engine lock up without going over. There are always flukes and exceptions...for example if it happened in the middle of a hard turn, may go over who knows. I would be comfortable though in a 60 mph situation with motor lock up without the ww (as long as it's your motor :D ). Just my opinion.

future boater

10-10-2002, 12:56 AM

now o noticed that you said avg. speed was 65. how fast are you going down the straights?
[ October 10, 2002, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: future boater ]

boatguy222

10-10-2002, 04:21 AM

CJ,
I think it would be a good idea in the "Fast" class, another boat besides mine ran over 70mph on the 3/4 mile oval, as you know we had ALOT left in the boat :D , I figured we were running in the 90's down the chutes, I know that is fast enough to get in big trouble. I don't think I would rig a race boat without one, even the type of racing we are doing.
If you have a couple more APBA caliber boat come to race we will need the saftey gear, because everyone else will try to step-up to that level.

superV

10-10-2002, 06:20 AM

Could someone please tell me how they work? How much they are? Maybe a pic of one? Do I need one in a 20' crusier running around 65-70mhp. Thanks for any info. :)

GofastRacer

10-10-2002, 06:37 AM

boatguy222:
CJ,
I think it would be a good idea in the "Fast" class, another boat besides mine ran over 70mph on the 3/4 mile oval, as you know we had ALOT left in the boat :D , I figured we were running in the 90's down the chutes, I know that is fast enough to get in big trouble. I don't think I would rig a race boat without one, even the type of racing we are doing.
If you have a couple more APBA caliber boat come to race we will need the saftey gear, because everyone else will try to step-up to that level.Got to agree, I think anything that goes 70 or better needs one!!..A long time ago, I had a wire come loose on the ignition and the motor died while on the power, according to the rpm, I was running about 70 to 75, not expecting that, I almost ended up on the deck!, that wasn't too cool!!..Personally, I won't drive or ride in a boat that goes over 70 without a Whirlaway!!!..Just my .02!!.....

GofastRacer

10-10-2002, 06:41 AM

superV:
Could someone please tell me how they work? How much they are? Maybe a pic of one? Do I need one in a 20' crusier running around 65-70mhp. Thanks for any info. :) Super V, click on the site up top, you can see pics of the parts and Tom can give you a price on one, I havn't bought one in quite awhile so I couldn't tell you what they cost!!....

ACCEPTENCE

10-10-2002, 07:10 AM

Well...thats a good question and a great idea. But lets really think about it. It seems to me anything a guy could do to avoid the possibility of going on his head would be a no brainer question. Sure...you have to consider the cost involved of buying and installing the whirlaway but then again how do you compare the cost of your injuries or your life to a boat part. Make the whirlaway mandatory and if someone can't afford it, to bad stay home!!!

gnRacer98

10-10-2002, 07:32 AM

If you have any doubt as to the need for a whirlaway I would suggest a simulation. Go down to your local truckstop,ask a friendly trucker if you could stand on top of his trailer while he drives under a brdige at 65mph, IF you can walk away after your face impacts the concrete (no cheatin, you gotta face forward)I would say you probably don't need a whirlaway.

ACCEPTENCE

10-10-2002, 07:35 AM

Serious LMAO !!!

superdave013

10-10-2002, 07:45 AM

ACCEPTENCE:
Well...thats a good question and a great idea. But lets really think about it. It seems to me anything a guy could do to avoid the possibility of going on his head would be a no brainer question. Sure...you have to consider the cost involved of buying and installing the whirlaway but then again how do you compare the cost of your injuries or your life to a boat part. Make the whirlaway mandatory and if someone can't afford it, to bad stay home!!!I agree, If I was writing a rule book somekind of prop release would be mandatory.
Another thing to think about is if one guy has one and the other guy does not. The guy with out it can drive deeper in the turns as his boat will slow down faster. No prop release gives your boat brakes kinda.

superdave013

10-10-2002, 07:48 AM

superV:
Could someone please tell me how they work? How much they are? Maybe a pic of one? Do I need one in a 20' crusier running around 65-70mhp. Thanks for any info. :) The trans in your boat is doing that. You don't need one.

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 10:14 AM

future boater:
now o noticed that you said avg. speed was 65. how fast are you going down the straights?Sorry, I should of explained further. The course is 3/4 mile with 500 foot corners and 900 ft straights {App}. My guess for my boat is low 80's and 40+ in the corners, hense 65mph average. However some have hit 70 mph average, like 222's Bezer and I think he said 6500 rpm with 15s. Most of us run 15s with 15 pitch and try to keep rpm under 6000 for longevity and consistant finishes. Some have stated over 7000 rpm on the tell tale and I hope that was AIR. That 80 or 90 mph gets me concerned....especially on turn entry! Jerk

beaverfab

10-10-2002, 10:17 AM

I am probably bias but I will not get in a v drive boat without one. It only takes one time going over the deck and you wish you had one. Safety first!!!! To superV the cost is $650.00 to $850.00 But like super dave said if you run a trany you don't need one.CircleJerk the name Whirlaway is regustered to Casale so I would like it if in the rules you would just call them prop shaft release, as there are other makers.

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 10:23 AM

superdave013:
ACCEPTENCE:
Well...thats a good question and a great idea. But lets really think about it. It seems to me anything a guy could do to avoid the possibility of going on his head would be a no brainer question. Sure...you have to consider the cost involved of buying and installing the whirlaway but then again how do you compare the cost of your injuries or your life to a boat part. Make the whirlaway mandatory and if someone can't afford it, to bad stay home!!!I agree, If I was writing a rule book somekind of prop release would be mandatory.
Another thing to think about is if one guy has one and the other guy does not. The guy with out it can drive deeper in the turns as his boat will slow down faster. No prop release gives your boat brakes kinda.Dave; Exactly, Brakes are whats needing in the slower classes when they get in too deep and have another vintage chine in their face! The first natural reaction is to LIFT. An experienced driver, I think, would pedal, steer and lift in harmony. I am thinking the slower classes could be exempt but leave the whirlaway optional. Interesting input, is this why they call you SUPER? Jerk

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 10:28 AM

GofastRacer:
boatguy222:
CJ,
I think it would be a good idea in the "Fast" class, another boat besides mine ran over 70mph on the 3/4 mile oval, as you know we had ALOT left in the boat :D , I figured we were running in the 90's down the chutes, I know that is fast enough to get in big trouble. I don't think I would rig a race boat without one, even the type of racing we are doing.
If you have a couple more APBA caliber boat come to race we will need the saftey gear, because everyone else will try to step-up to that level.Got to agree, I think anything that goes 70 or better needs one!!..A long time ago, I had a wire come loose on the ignition and the motor died while on the power, according to the rpm, I was running about 70 to 75, not expecting that, I almost ended up on the deck!, that wasn't too cool!!..Personally, I won't drive or ride in a boat that goes over 70 without a Whirlaway!!!..Just my .02!!.....I agree, but what about the slow 60 mph boats? I accidently pulled the kill switch flying down the lake and it stopped my heart but the boat did not throw me out or even into the dash! I think others of you have done this also. Can we clarify at what speed is it deemed neccessary while remembering the braking safety advantage? Jerk

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 10:38 AM

gnRacer98:
If you have any doubt as to the need for a whirlaway I would suggest a simulation. Go down to your local truckstop,ask a friendly trucker if you could stand on top of his trailer while he drives under a brdige at 65mph, IF you can walk away after your face impacts the concrete (no cheatin, you gotta face forward)I would say you probably don't need a whirlaway.Thanks GN but do you get thrown out at 65? I know anyone who runs APBA has had to pay $900 or so for one in order to pass tech. However I have seen some blown GNs without one!! I can pull the kill switch at 60mph and stay in. How about these 1960 something classic ski boats that we want racing in their own exciting class? Do we make them modify their pieces OR monitor their lap speeds and make the appropriate decision after rookie indoctrination? Have you seen our video? I cant force unneccesary equipment on a 371 Oldsmobile engine running under 5000 rpm. Jerk

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 10:43 AM

beaverfab:
I am probably bias but I will not get in a v drive boat without one. It only takes one time going over the deck and you wish you had one. Safety first!!!! To superV the cost is $650.00 to $850.00 But like super dave said if you run a trany you don't need one.CircleJerk the name Whirlaway is regustered to Casale so I would like it if in the rules you would just call them prop shaft release, as there are other makers.Thanks, point well taken. Shaft release fits me! JERK

CircleJerk

10-10-2002, 10:53 AM

ACCEPTENCE:
Well...thats a good question and a great idea. But lets really think about it. It seems to me anything a guy could do to avoid the possibility of going on his head would be a no brainer question. Sure...you have to consider the cost involved of buying and installing the whirlaway but then again how do you compare the cost of your injuries or your life to a boat part. Make the whirlaway mandatory and if someone can't afford it, to bad stay home!!!THESE ARE NOT ALL RACE BOATS. Some are slower than you guys just cruising the delta or approaching a dock!!! When I started racing I could'nt afford it and at the Drags, slower than 10 second et boats were'nt required them! Remember it's a RUN what you brung race and cost has to be considered! I would never had tried racing if I was told to buy 1000 dollars of jacket,helmet,and etc and then need 900 more for a 70 mph boat. Heck that was more than the boat cost me! Jerkagain

ssmike

10-10-2002, 11:21 AM

beaverfab:
I am probably bias but I will not get in a v drive boat without one. It only takes one time going over the deck and you wish you had one. Safety first!!!! To superV the cost is $650.00 to $850.00 But like super dave said if you run a trany you don't need one.CircleJerk the name Whirlaway is regustered to Casale so I would like it if in the rules you would just call them prop shaft release, as there are other makers.Beaverfab -
I just sent you a Personal Message. Let me know if you can't open it.
ssmike

Sked

10-10-2002, 11:31 AM

I've tried other peoples boats that had a shaft release and personally I don't like them and never had one in one of my own boats. The reason being the deceleration or braking factor mentioned by some already. I've lost plenty of bottom ends in big block motors but never once locked one up. I did lock up a small block in an 85 MPH Skiff once and although it tossed an inexperienced rider out of the boat it was no big deal. Certainly no worse than stuffing it. The skiff is direct drive so there is no provision for a shaft release and some of our non APBA boats are running at 100+ MPH. Even as a safety rule there are never any guarantees. Hell we've had safety collar rules since before I was racing but I still saw Duff Daily in a Pro Stock loose a prop shaft and have the prop jam in the rudder basically causing the same effect as an engine lock up. Again no worse than a bad stuff and he did stay in the boat. But that's not to say I've never seen worse. Non detrimental safety items I do agree with. But to sacrifice handling for the sake of a possible safety item is something I've never agreed with. Here's a clue to show you my way of thinking. Most guys in circle runabouts like to sit high in the boat. The reason being that it is easier to come out of the boat and have your legs clear the dash and the rest of the boat if you roll it. This practice raises the center of gravity thus increasing the chance of rolling the boat in a corner. I on the other hand prefer to sit as low as possible thus improving cornering capabilities and making it less likely to roll it in the first place. Besides, I've never seen where sitting high guarantees you'll be tossed safely. Although you always do your best to make sure nothing goes wrong, as you should, getting in a race boat is a risky proposition. Anyone who doesn't think that shouldn't be out in one in the first place.

betterhalfflat

10-10-2002, 11:48 AM

CircleJerk:
ACCEPTENCE:
Well...thats a good question and a great idea. But lets really think about it. It seems to me anything a guy could do to avoid the possibility of going on his head would be a no brainer question. Sure...you have to consider the cost involved of buying and installing the whirlaway but then again how do you compare the cost of your injuries or your life to a boat part. Make the whirlaway mandatory and if someone can't afford it, to bad stay home!!!THESE ARE NOT ALL RACE BOATS. Some are slower than you guys just cruising the delta or approaching a dock!!! When I started racing I could'nt afford it and at the Drags, slower than 10 second et boats were'nt required them! Remember it's a RUN what you brung race and cost has to be considered! I would never had tried racing if I was told to buy 1000 dollars of jacket,helmet,and etc and then need 900 more for a 70 mph boat. Heck that was more than the boat cost me! JerkagainThe cost sucks but get a prop shaft release for your boat, no matter how fast you go. Better safe than sorry. Remember what BOAT stands for "BRING OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND"

126driver

10-10-2002, 12:11 PM

superdave013:
I agree, If I was writing a rule book somekind of prop release would be mandatory.
Another thing to think about is if one guy has one and the other guy does not. The guy with out it can drive deeper in the turns as his boat will slow down faster. No prop release gives your boat brakes kinda.Depends on how big the corners are SD. On some big sweepers, like Burley, you never lift. Just plate the boat and hang on. eek! Sounds like the Nostalgia guys are running big turns (how many pins?). It's kinda hard to put a definite speed limit on a release 'cause shit can - and will - happen, but that Jerk-dude has a point on the run-what-you-brung deal. I'd say at the very least a mandatory release on the faster classes, and possibly just written in the rule book as "recommended" for the slower classes.
<CJ - always liked that handle :D >

ACCEPTENCE

10-10-2002, 03:21 PM

Slow boats?, Fast boats?, Big turns?, tight truns?,...Do you suppose if a top fuel dragster driver wasen't required to wear a fire suit he wouldn't??? If a sprint car driver wasen't required to wear arm restraints he wouldn't??? Are you thinking if a supercross rider could get away with racing without a chest protector he would pass on wearing it??? The prop release was in fact designed for your safety and the safety of the other drivers/racers. I for one wouldn't want to be the one that has the job of telling your wife and kids "The other boat went out of control, we did all we could for him" !!!!!.....
Six to eight hundred dollars not to have to hear that...sign me up!!!!!

Sked

10-10-2002, 03:36 PM

ACCEPTENCE:
Do you suppose if a top fuel dragster driver wasen't required to wear a fire suit he wouldn't??? If a sprint car driver wasen't required to wear arm restraints he wouldn't??? Are you thinking if a supercross rider could get away with racing without a chest protector he would pass on wearing it??? None of these items has a detrimental effect to the handling of the vehicle but a prop shaft release does have an effect on the ultimate handling capabilities of a boat. Is it worth it? Not for me. I would rather have ultimate handling and control. That's what always kept me safe.

ACCEPTENCE

10-10-2002, 03:40 PM

And a prop shaft release inhibits your boat how again????

ACCEPTENCE

10-10-2002, 03:47 PM

Detrimental to the handeling??? With your head on fire and your arms ripped off while a rock the size of a tennis ball lodged in your chest I would say there are some handeling problems...No wait, I don't want to get into a pissing match with you over this. My entire point of my comments is simply from a safety standpoint. If a shaft release dosen't work in your plan, I can accept that. Seems to me every and all safety measures that can safely implamented should used.
Thats all...

126driver

10-10-2002, 04:05 PM

Agreed Acceptence, but these Nostalgia guys are trying to get an inexpensive, grass-roots level type of deal going, and the slower classes might - and I do mean might not need them. Keep it cheap at the entry level and get the guys on the course. Maybe a guy wants to go out and give it a try before spending the bucks. Make it mandatory for sure in the faster classes.
I for one, would never drive a boat without a release now. I've field-tested them before. wink Handling problems? I really never did drive much in a flattie without a release so I don't have much to compare it to.

126driver

10-10-2002, 04:12 PM

JSSK88, not a bash bro but how is ultimate handling and control going to keep someone out of trouble when they kick a few rods on the big end? That ratcheting noise sounds pretty good then. wink

Sked

10-10-2002, 06:03 PM

Acceptence & 126driver
What if, what if. Insurance companies love guys like you. You want guarantees and assurances for everything and you're even willing to pay through the ass for it. Don't misunderstand that, money is not the issue here, necessity is.
126driver:
JSSK88, not a bash bro but how is ultimate handling and control going to keep someone out of trouble when they kick a few rods on the big end? That ratcheting noise sounds pretty good then. wink How long have you been racing and how many times have you been in a situation where a prop shaft release would have saved your butt? There's a far greater chance that you would roll or loose control of your boat because you don't have as good a handle on it as there is of you locking up a motor, unless of course your running grenade motors.
ACCEPTENCE:
Seems to me every and all safety measures that can safely implamented should used.
Hey, why not take it to the extreme and make radio control mandatory and keep everyone 500 yds away from the running boats then MAYBE you can avoid all the risk of bodily injuries.
I never said prop shaft releases should be banned. If a prop shaft release is what it takes to make you feel comfortable than fine, I have no problem with you using one, but don't make it mandatory for me. IN MY OPINION it's just not that necessary of a safety item. For me, I've always acknowledged the risks but was always comfortable with racing and comfortable with the confidence I had in my equipment. If you guys don't feel the same that's OK, run the release.
[ October 10, 2002, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: JSSK88 ]

blondie#1

10-10-2002, 06:47 PM

Hey! Do any of you guys know if the GN boat that Lance Faulkner was in had a prop release. It's important for me to know. It will help me decide if I should really put one in my boat or not. How about the other guy Mike? Thanks for your imput.

Rexone

10-10-2002, 06:50 PM

Seems to be quite a range of opinions on this one which I think is a good thing. As I stated earlier, I'd be comfortable personally at 60-65 goin along and shuttin the key off. 75-80, gettin a little on the edge there. Depending on the boat it would "probably" be fine with just a little stuff, hit the steering wheel, maybe a little sore, etc. That's how I feel about it "personally".
Now would I recommend what I would be comfortable with personally to anyone else? Not a chance. I'm not much of a gambler. In our litigeous (sp?) society it's unfortunate but it seems many times people can't claim responsibility for their own decisions and actions. To some, it would be thier normal thought track to blame the racing assn that didn't take every step possible to guarantee their safety in the event they locked up a motor and went on their head and got hurt (in this case not requiring a whirlaway). Remember, anyone can (and many times will) sue anyone else for anything regardless of actual fault, liability releases, etc. Therefore, if I was running a racing assn. I'd have to insist on every safty implementation known to man. It's unfortunate in my opinion that it has to be this way and people can't make their own choice to some degree whether they run a safety item like a whirlaway or not. Bottom line is though, in our society the legal implications of not requiring safety stuff if it's known it "might" have prevented a problem, are pretty substantial. And I personally would want all the legal protection I could get in this situation.
All that really boils down to very little to do with whether it's actually safe or not, and more whether you have an unacceptable level of legal liabilty or not. I don't agree with it but it's the rules we have to deal with when something goes wrong and someone is hurt or killed. Our freedoms are somewhat limited by lawyers I guess which is kind of sad.
Now having said all that, 70's and above should have releases for safety. Just my opinion.
[ October 10, 2002, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Rexone ]

Mr Dumass

10-10-2002, 07:01 PM

I gots read enough o' dis here chumps babbling about not needing dis here, not needing dat. Too much money dis here I be bettah than ya an' I know it all blah blah blah. The bottom line iz ya iz uh cheap bastard dat should just hop da fence ta git into da race ta watch, or ya should hide under uh blanket an' sneak into da race since ya can't afford it. slap mah fro!

FlatOut4Me

10-10-2002, 07:06 PM

Installing a whirlaway is on my "to do list" because of the safety aspect...the previous owner poorly located the kill switch & I knocked it off with my knee on the top end. (my face got real friendly with the bubbledeck) eek! Still there are several things higher on the list, all of which to go faster. :D Is it true that running a whirlaway will allow shifting from neutral to GO while the motor is running? What's needed? How hard on parts? Thanks for any info.

GofastRacer

10-10-2002, 07:31 PM

Well, I see you got educated the easy way!!..Yes you can put it in gear while the motor is running, I do it all the time but it's not recomended if the motor is idling over 1200 rpm!.If you have a blown motor, as the motor rolls, you can drop it in gear as it comes down and it won't hurt it at all!!..BTW, if the plan is to go faster, the PROP RELEASE should be a priority!!!!!!My .02.....
[ October 10, 2002, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: GofastRacer ]

FlatOut4Me

10-10-2002, 08:14 PM

G.F.R. thanks for the info. It's a lake boat, but the speed bug has bitten... so more HP on the way this winter. Other then cutting the prop shaft is everything else a bolt in?

superdave013

10-10-2002, 08:36 PM

blondebombshell:
Hey! Do any of you guys know if the GN boat that Lance Faulkner was in had a prop release. It's important for me to know. It will help me decide if I should really put one in my boat or not. How about the other guy Mike? Thanks for your imput.Well if you are thinking that the prop release had anything to do with those 2 crashes you are wrong. But yes they did have releases in them. The rest of what happened I'm staying out of.

superdave013

10-10-2002, 08:49 PM

I can't believe people are debating this. You might as well save some more cash and wear your old EP ski jacket. Why spend the coin on a Life Line jacket?? While you are at it toss a nibral prop on it too. What the heck.
Come on people. How many racers have you seen get killed? I have seen to many myself. If there is anything that can be done to make your boat safer then do it! If you can't afford it get a bayliner.
[ October 10, 2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: superdave013 ]

SK48

10-10-2002, 09:02 PM

Blondbombshell, both of the GN's that crashed had shaft releases. The crashes were not related to motor failures, and the shaft releases had no impact on the result of either. We could have run the GN 30 boat the next day with some electrical parts and duct tape.
Gofastracer, I have never seen an APBA GN boat without a shaft release. Several of the GN 1 boats with lots of horsepower and tall gears have the shaft release on the driveshaft side of the v-drive and not on the propshaft side. I know Lance Hasselrigs yellow Raysoncraft, and Hobans GN 30 are rigged that way. Its easier on the shaft release to spin it at crankshaft speed than 48% over on the prop shaft side.

boatguy222

10-10-2002, 10:35 PM

superdave013:
I can't believe people are debating this. You might as well save some more cash and wear your old EP ski jacket. Why spend the coin on a Life Line jacket?? While you are at it toss a nibral prop on it too. What the heck.
Come on people. How many racers have you seen get killed? I have seen to many myself. If there is anything that can be done to make your boat safer then do it! If you can't afford it get a bayliner.CJ,
I think SD's post sayes it best, Thanks Dave, Maybe we can get, BeaverFab or V-drive Tom or even Andy to cut us a deal for shaft releases.
How many do we need? Do one of you guys want to step-up and help this group out?????
Also not every one runs a Casale type v-drive, can one of you guys make a release that goes in place of the split coupler on the propshafts, it has been done before, I know this would help some of the Jones boats (and others) out because of space issues. but as the group grows and people step-up to race. it's something we are going to need. and from the looks of what the guys were running this year, SOON!

Sked

10-11-2002, 12:00 AM

Rexone:
In our litigeous (sp?) society it's unfortunate but it seems many times people can't claim responsibility for their own decisions and actions. To some, it would be thier normal thought track to blame the racing assn that didn't take every step possible to guarantee their safety in the event they locked up a motor and went on their head and got hurt (in this case not requiring a whirlaway). Remember, anyone can (and many times will) sue anyone else for anything regardless of actual fault, liability releases, etc. Therefore, if I was running a racing assn. I'd have to insist on every safty implementation known to man. It's unfortunate in my opinion that it has to be this way and people can't make their own choice to some degree whether they run a safety item like a whirlaway or not. Bottom line is though, in our society the legal implications of not requiring safety stuff if it's known it "might" have prevented a problem, are pretty substantial. And I personally would want all the legal protection I could get in this situation.
All that really boils down to very little to do with whether it's actually safe or not, and more whether you have an unacceptable level of legal liabilty or not. I don't agree with it but it's the rules we have to deal with when something goes wrong and someone is hurt or killed. Our freedoms are somewhat limited by lawyers I guess which is kind of sad.
Now having said all that, 70's and above should have releases for safety. Just my opinion.Rexone,
Way to go. I'll have to agree. That's the best case for a shaft release I've heard yet. You're right, some gutless sob would get hurt and sue everybody and his brother thus possibly bringing the organization to it's demise. Even though I don't think the're really a necessity and don't like the idea of having to use one myself, your reasoning would have to make me reconsider my opinion. My hats off to you.

CircleJerk

10-11-2002, 12:12 AM

CircleJerk:
I would appreciate your views as to their safety value to our slow circle boats {average speed is under 60 mph}. I am aware that APBA requires them as well as drag boats under a certain E.T. but are they really worth the moola and requiring them?? We are in the difficult process of adding and deleting rules to our Nostalgic racing classes and I value everyones opinion here in the forum. I run one in the faster hull {averages 65 mph for three laps}, but at what speed should they be required? I will take your input to the rules meeting. Thanks in advance! Jerkster..Hates to discourage any nostalgic racer new or old :confused: !Thank you all for the input! I will study all of your opinions before the rules committee meeting to help in the decision making process. I think some of you didnt understand my question or understand just what I am working so hard for. I want to promote boat racing of all types and bring it back to its former glory. This may be the impossible dream and I may not succeed but at least some of us, with average incomes, are racing old classical flatbottoms, and we have grown from 5 to 20 in two years! The success I seek is not fame or profit, but simply the enjoyment of our loved v-drives and most importantly: familiy fun and new racing friends! On this level, I'm happy to say, WE'VE DONE IT! The one thing I will never stop doing is making it as safe as possible! With your continued help, I'M HAULIN GLASS! I will be calling some of you great guys for more technical questions if you dont mind. CIRCLE-JERK? :rolleyes:

Riptide01

10-11-2002, 04:54 AM

Safety, Safety, Safety,
Guess I better just install that SAFETY capsule on the 62 Rayson Craft.
This whirl-a-way thing sounds like the motorcycle or bicycle helmet debate.
Can any of the manufacturers explain the HIGH cost of any thing with the word safety attached??
C.J. - Make then manditory if you see fit.
But they sure aren't a cure all.
Gee, guys are still getting hurt in these safety capsule things.
Well , got to walk out the front door and go to work. Shit, Hope I am SAFE...

126driver

10-11-2002, 05:31 AM

JSSK88:
How long have you been racing and how many times have you been in a situation where a prop shaft release would have saved your butt? There's a far greater chance that you would roll or loose control of your boat because you don't have as good a handle on it as there is of you locking up a motor, unless of course your running grenade motors.
I've been running SS since '91. Not that long, but long enough to form some opinions based on first-hand experience. I've had one motor lock up at the big end and a whirlaway definitely saved my ass. Grenade motors? Don't think so pal. And by the way - I have plenty of control over my boat.
[ October 11, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: 126driver ]

Riptide01

10-11-2002, 05:38 AM

Yep, those nostalgia things are going to look good with capsules.
Safer just leaving it on the trailer.
http://a0.cpimg.com/image/54/B8/13409620-df99-028001E0-.jpg

126driver

10-11-2002, 05:47 AM

Or maybe this
http://www.havasubarney.com/iB_html/uploads/post-5-42613-funky3.jpg

superdave013

10-11-2002, 06:06 AM

Riptide01:
Safety, Safety, Safety,
Guess I better just install that SAFETY capsule on the 62 Rayson Craft.
This whirl-a-way thing sounds like the motorcycle or bicycle helmet debate.
Can any of the manufacturers explain the HIGH cost of any thing with the word safety attached??
C.J. - Make then manditory if you see fit.
But they sure aren't a cure all.
Gee, guys are still getting hurt in these safety capsule things.
Well , got to walk out the front door and go to work. Shit, Hope I am SAFE...Not talking lake racing here. Talking sanctioned racing.
BTW, in a sanctioned bike race of any kind you are required to wear a helmet in the US. This is me racing in the old fart class. Oh, don't have to but I wear a chest protector/spine protector with built in shoulder and elbow pads, shin guards and hip pads also. At that race I cracked that full face helmet in a crash. Sure glad they made me wear it.
http://www.epsphotos.com/epsphotos/2002-ncsBigBear-050-07.jpg

blondie#1

10-11-2002, 06:44 AM

superdave013:
blondebombshell:
Hey! Do any of you guys know if the GN boat that Lance Faulkner was in had a prop release. It's important for me to know. It will help me decide if I should really put one in my boat or not. How about the other guy Mike? Thanks for your imput.Well if you are thinking that the prop release had anything to do with those 2 crashes you are wrong. But yes they did have releases in them. The rest of what happened I'm staying out of.Thanks Super Dave. I know that is a bad subject, but I really needed to know. How fast where they going when things feel apart? My boat is going around 55mph around the corners, down the straight away I figure I'm traveling around 70mph. I have a great fear of coming out of my boat and hiting the water, let alone drowning. So I'm thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea. I've never had trouble with anything locking up. I have accidentally pulled the kill switch and so far all the boat has done has come to an easy stop. It's the wall of water behind me that comes with it that bothers me. Sinking my boat is another thing I don't want to do. I do have a bilge pump in the boat that I use when nessary. I'm planning on changing the motor size for next year. Even though I run in the Nostalgic Ski boat class. I hate to give up the motor I have now, but it is time to retire it back to the automobile it came out of.
Thanks for any info.

126driver

10-11-2002, 06:46 AM

CJ - Just out of curiousity, how many classes do you guys run? What are the estimated straightaway speeds? Any possibility that you may run a larger course in the future that could increase those speeds?

blondie#1

10-11-2002, 07:00 AM

126driver:
CJ - Just out of curiousity, how many classes do you guys run? What are the estimated straightaway speeds? Any possibility that you may run a larger course in the future that could increase those speeds?Right now we only run 2 classes. But as we grow we will have to add some more classes. We are only allowed up to 5 boats on the coarse at a time. Our last race we split the Circle boats into 2 classes because we had 8 boats running in this class. The Ski boat class had 6 boats in their class, we ran them all together. We run twice a day on all classes. All of our speeds are timed in just as you come around the fourth corner. The clock is about half way down the straight away. So, by the time we get back to the first pin, we are hauling. In the Circle boat class the average speed was 70.3mph on a 3/4 track and coming out of the 4th corner.
As far as running a larger course. That answer is a definate NO! Our insurance will not let us and that keeps our speed down to where the insurance company likes. Personally that is just fine with me. Speed is OK, but in my opinion there is a time to quite before it gets ridiculously dangerous and maybe a little stupid. I like my life and therefore I'm not going to push it over the limit.

blondie#1

10-11-2002, 07:08 AM

By the way, the only reason the Ski Boat class was allowed 6 boats in this class was we had 1 rookie and he or she is required to stay in the back until the starting marshalls OK his ability to race with the rest of us. So on Sunday when he was released to race we where down to 5 boats. So it all works out. All first time racers with us are required to stay behind the first day. Then the racers rep/race commissioner finds out what the race marshall says, in order for him to race or if he/she is still required to stay in the back one more day. So far, one day has been the judgement on all new drivers. We have a great bunch of guys and lady's who drive very well and don't want to scratch, break or run over anyone so far.

CircleJerk

10-11-2002, 09:28 AM

Rexone:
Seems to be quite a range of opinions on this one which I think is a good thing. As I stated earlier, I'd be comfortable personally at 60-65 goin along and shuttin the key off. 75-80, gettin a little on the edge there. Depending on the boat it would "probably" be fine with just a little stuff, hit the steering wheel, maybe a little sore, etc. That's how I feel about it "personally".
Now would I recommend what I would be comfortable with personally to anyone else? Not a chance. I'm not much of a gambler. In our litigeous (sp?) society it's unfortunate but it seems many times people can't claim responsibility for their own decisions and actions. To some, it would be thier normal thought track to blame the racing assn that didn't take every step possible to guarantee their safety in the event they locked up a motor and went on their head and got hurt (in this case not requiring a whirlaway). Remember, anyone can (and many times will) sue anyone else for anything regardless of actual fault, liability releases, etc. Therefore, if I was running a racing assn. I'd have to insist on every safty implementation known to man. It's unfortunate in my opinion that it has to be this way and people can't make their own choice to some degree whether they run a safety item like a whirlaway or not. Bottom line is though, in our society the legal implications of not requiring safety stuff if it's known it "might" have prevented a problem, are pretty substantial. And I personally would want all the legal protection I could get in this situation.
All that really boils down to very little to do with whether it's actually safe or not, and more whether you have an unacceptable level of legal liabilty or not. I don't agree with it but it's the rules we have to deal with when something goes wrong and someone is hurt or killed. Our freedoms are somewhat limited by lawyers I guess which is kind of sad.
Now having said all that, 70's and above should have releases for safety. Just my opinion.Mike, Thank you, and I couldnt agree with you more! This really says it all and I hope it does for anyone posting or LURKING here! eek! We have to have all the safety stuff even if it does'nt work or is not neccessary! Why? It's due to the threat of a law suit, which could result in the demise of Nostalgic Racing and the outboard club that made it possible in the first place. I can not begin to tell you all how helpful this column has been. Let me just say, that my direction and goals ARE altered. I apologize to those experienced racers and flatbottom experts who may have been insulted or angered here on this forum, on this topic or others: {v-drive placement}. Hopefully, some like myself, were enlightened, or is the word EDUCATED? wink :D SK88,FlatRACER, and MikeREX, I would be honored if you would except a personal invitation to attend our Racers Reunion Regatta as my VIP guests! Heck I may even take up a collection for air fare! :cool: I'll keep you all informed to the rule changes. JERKOUTANDOVER
[ October 11, 2002, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: CircleJerk ]

Riptide01

10-11-2002, 08:10 PM

Superdave,
I have been Mtn. biking in Utah. And scared the shit out of myself. Yes helmets are a smart thing,as I almost went on my head. And I was not wearing any protective gear.
I feel the way I do about the safety rules of the nostalgia racing. Because I would like to see it stay FUN and AFFORDABLE.
I have grown up around these boats and pretty much know all the things they can and cant do.
Are whirl-a-ways a good idea ? HELL YES.
I disagree that they should be forced down someones throat. Especially someone trying to start out in racing.
I recently started scuba diving. You can start cheap and safe. Then work you way into more expensive and safer stuff.
Thats the way this nostalgia thing should be.
Maybe it needs one or two more classes.
Beginners, ski boat , 60- 70 mph and a 70-and up class.
Just my 2 cents.