Hydraulic steering vs dual external

[wastin time]

Im not sure what to go with full hydraulic steering vs dual external;i'm running 700hp in a 26'-27'cat.

[Kilrtoy]

What did Nordic tell you

[Havasu Carrera]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/HavasuCarrera/dulehydrolicsteeringpower.jpg
I could only imagine how silly it would be not to put dule hydrolic steering on a boat after driving mine. What is this called? Dule for sure, Hydraulic for sure, And since its got a power steering pump its POWER to right? All I know is its hands free if need be at any speed and one finger to controle!! :eek: ;)

[C-2]

Yup, dual ram, full hyrdaulic to the helm. WPM is really nice, Marine Machine if you can afford it. They'll probably hook you up with IMCO.:)

[BADBLOWN572]

I assume that you are talking about full hydraulic versus twin ram external steering??? If that is the case, both systems are hydraulic. The twin ram external is hydraulic from the Brazil valve back to the drive. Full hydraulic is just that, it is hydraulic all the way up to the helm. The Brazil Valve still utilizes a cable up to the dash. The cable activates the Brazil Valve and that releases the hydraulic back to the rams. Both systems utilize the power steering pump so they are both easy to operate.
The main difference is that the hydraulic assist works off the cable. Typically there is some slop in the cable to begin with. Additionally, the cable has to kick the Brazil Valve then it will release the hydraulic steering to the rams. The full hydraulic always has power going to the system and is always positive. There is no delay.
Both systems will work fine on your boat. Neither one has a higher safety level than the other. They both use the same external rams.
Personally, I think that the full hydraulic steering is the only way to go. After owning two boats with full hydraulic, I will never own another one without it. They always track perfectly straight, no slop in the steering, very tight steering, and can spin the wheel with one finger. The only downside is the cost. You will need about 100' of hydraulic lines to run from the front to the back, a power steering helm, various hydraulic connections, a small modification to your power steering pump, and the install to do it. It is not a cheap upgrade. In labor alone, it takes about 6 hours where assisted steering takes probably 1-2 hours. With that being said, I would pay the extra money and get it done. My guess is that it is going to be between $2K-3K over the dual ram assist steering.
Hope that helps.

[BADBLOWN572]

Yup, dual ram, full hyrdaulic to the helm. WPM is really nice, Marine Machine if you can afford it. They'll probably hook you up with IMCO.:)
My systems have alwas been WPM steering. I love them. I have installed probably 20-30 Imco systems and I am not as big of a fan as I am of the WPM. WPM uses all plastic coated SS braided lines with pressed fittings. Imco uses rubber re-enforced hoses that you cut to length and then install the ends on. The WPM steering lines need to be measured exactly and then taken back and pressed. More labor intensive, but better in my opinion. Below are some pictures of the WPM system installed in my boat. Never used the Marine Machine. Have heard good things about it, but never personally installed one.
You have 4 lines in the system. One regular rubber hose (low pressure return from helm to P.S. Pump), one high pressure to helm (from P.S. Pump), then two steering lines from helm to the first ram.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1598IMG_0058.jpg
The secondary ram only gets two lines. They come off the first ram and are terminated at the 2nd. Another thing I like about the WPM steering is that they give you polished SS backing plates. Imco Does not. They do not offer backing plates. Just stringer washers. :(
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1598IMG_0057.jpg

[C-2]

I never realized how much labor there is for the full hyd install. I have a set of MM arms, wing plate and bolts, but need the lines to finish it out - I was gonna spring for for full, adding the pump and using the Hardin SS line kit (same as WPM?). But dayum, now I'm worried. I'm also worried the MM rams are too big, this is going on my 21' Hallett 210. Hell, I'm worried just bolting on the wingplate is gonna make it pop a wheelie! That thing is core, must weigh 30lbs
Clean install on your boat :)

[BADBLOWN572]

I never realized how much labor there is for the full hyd install. I have a set of MM arms, wing plate and bolts, but need the lines to finish it out - I was gonna spring for for full, adding the pump and using the Hardin SS line kit (same as WPM?). But dayum, now I'm worried. I'm also worried the MM rams are too big, this is going on my 21' Hallett 210. Hell, I'm worried just bolting on the wingplate is gonna make it pop a wheelie! That thing is core, must weigh 30lbs
Clean install on your boat :)
Thanks for the compliment. :)
I know that WPM does all of their own lines. They have huge rolls of hose in their shop. They cut them to length and press the ends on themselves. Never seen Hardin's SS line kit so I don't know.
I would call up MM and ask them what their dimensions are. You will need to find the center of your gimbal vertically and find the center of the prop shaft. They will tell you how far out to go to their ram mounting point and mount it at the same height as your prop shaft. Getting the geometry right if you don't know is a pain and you only get one shot at it. :) ASK THE PROS! ;)
If you do it, you will have to get the helm from either MM, WPM, or Imco. I would then call up someone who does hydraulic hoses and ask them to make you up some hoses to length. Just make sure that they are high pressure rated. :)
Not an easy install, but not impossible either.

[NORDIC_RIG]

I assume that you are talking about full hydraulic versus twin ram external steering??? If that is the case, both systems are hydraulic. The twin ram external is hydraulic from the Brazil valve back to the drive. Full hydraulic is just that, it is hydraulic all the way up to the helm. The Brazil Valve still utilizes a cable up to the dash. The cable activates the Brazil Valve and that releases the hydraulic back to the rams. Both systems utilize the power steering pump so they are both easy to operate.
The main difference is that the hydraulic assist works off the cable. Typically there is some slop in the cable to begin with. Additionally, the cable has to kick the Brazil Valve then it will release the hydraulic steering to the rams. The full hydraulic always has power going to the system and is always positive. There is no delay.
Both systems will work fine on your boat. Neither one has a higher safety level than the other. They both use the same external rams.
Personally, I think that the full hydraulic steering is the only way to go. After owning two boats with full hydraulic, I will never own another one without it. They always track perfectly straight, no slop in the steering, very tight steering, and can spin the wheel with one finger. The only downside is the cost. You will need about 100' of hydraulic lines to run from the front to the back, a power steering helm, various hydraulic connections, a small modification to your power steering pump, and the install to do it. It is not a cheap upgrade. In labor alone, it takes about 6 hours where assisted steering takes probably 1-2 hours. With that being said, I would pay the extra money and get it done. My guess is that it is going to be between $2K-3K over the dual ram assist steering.
Hope that helps.
nordic had the same answer as above

[gmocnik]

i have a 25 daytona and run the cable/dual ram setup. have considered going hyd to the helm many times but spent a ton of money putting the trim and tab controls on the steering wheel and believe that the full hyd systems do not "return to center" so the trim/tab controls on the wheel would not be at the 10 and 2 position..
anyone have full to the helm and steering wheel trim/tab controls???

[LHC30Victory]

Cant speak about cats, but I do know full Hyd is the bomb!! We took delivery of our V with only the hyd assist and brazil valve (despite IMCO's warning that it should not be used on a boat over 70mph) and hated the freeplay in the steering. I installed the twin pump full hyd IMCO setup (with a little finish help from Absolute :D ) and now have a whole new confidence in the boat.....
GET the full HYD setup ----

[BADBLOWN572]

i have a 25 daytona and run the cable/dual ram setup. have considered going hyd to the helm many times but spent a ton of money putting the trim and tab controls on the steering wheel and believe that the full hyd systems do not "return to center" so the trim/tab controls on the wheel would not be at the 10 and 2 position..
anyone have full to the helm and steering wheel trim/tab controls???
GT Performance has a system for that. I believe it is called their CRT system. Not cheap, but it works pretty well.

[gmocnik]

GT Performance has a system for that. I believe it is called their CRT system. Not cheap, but it works pretty well.
Boat is at GT right now for winter freshening, etc...
Thanks

[Racey]

Go full hydraulic from the helm to the rams.
it will last forever, has alot nicer wheel feel, gets all that bs off the inner transom making it easier to work on the boat, and is just all around better, we have changed alot of boats over from the cable actuated hydraulic to the full hydraulic Char-lynn helm and the owners all loved it.

[Havasu Hangin']

i have a 25 daytona and run the cable/dual ram setup. have considered going hyd to the helm many times but spent a ton of money putting the trim and tab controls on the steering wheel and believe that the full hyd systems do not "return to center" so the trim/tab controls on the wheel would not be at the 10 and 2 position..
anyone have full to the helm and steering wheel trim/tab controls???
Here's my trim controls:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/The_Helm.jpg
If I used the tabs more, I'd put them on the sticks.