chew on this.

[cyclone]

Brodix new tall deck BBC block only weighs 128 lbs. (without the main caps installed.)
:crossx:

[MikeF]

WHAT....no pics. :umm:

[wsuwrhr]

My INDY block is 133.
I'm jealous.
The Brodix is easier to lift.
Brian

[MikeF]

Yeah, But you have a cnc machine that can trim off some more. :)

[steelcomp]

Brodix new tall deck BBC block only weighs 128 lbs. (without the main caps installed.)
:crossx:Yeah, and they're free, right?? :rolleyes:

[wsuwrhr]

Yeah, But you have a cnc machine that can trim off some more. :)
Those damn Dodges have a skirt all the way around the mains. I'll get to cuttin'
Brian

[BUSBY]

Brodix new tall deck BBC block only weighs 128 lbs. (without the main caps installed.)
:crossx:
I thought this was on the down low ... :)

[cyclone]

Yeah, and they're free, right?? :rolleyes:
I look at it like this. Brodix cashed my check two months ago so that money is long gone. The block showed up today and all i did was sign for it so yeah, its sort of like getting it for free. :rolleyes:

[cyclone]

I thought this was on the down low ... :)
The cat was more or less out of the bag already.

[cyclone]

WHAT....no pics. :umm:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8183-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8184-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8186-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8190-med.JPG

[cyclone]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8191.JPG

[BUSBY]

I want one! nice ...
I like how you used the old house scale :D

[cyclone]

its all about precision here. lol

[Taylorman]

All i can say is wow. Nice piece.

[LakesOnly]

Beautiful looking piece. Please tell us you got the bigger lifter diameter option, the higher cam tunnel option...and maybe the Ford needle roller bearing option? :D
LO
(Edit) Took a closer look at the photos...looks oem configuration?

[78Eliminator]

Please dont tell me that's going in your jet boat.

[wsuwrhr]

133 WITH the main caps installed.
I just caught that.
Sweet.
Nice block BTW,
Brian

[BUSBY]

Please dont tell me that's going in your jet boat.
but of course ... Mike's the big baller now!

[BUSBY]

All i can say is wow. Nice piece.
Just wait Kevin ... he's got some good stuff up his sleeve coming!
:D

[Taylorman]

but of course ... Mike's the big baller now!
Now, i thought he was always a big baller? What makes him a baller now?
Just wait Kevin ... he's got some good stuff up his sleeve coming!
Can't wait to see it. He needs to powdercoat that block orange like the ZZ572.

[BUSBY]

Now, i thought he was always a big baller? What makes him a baller now?
Can't wait to see it. He needs to powdercoat that block orange like the ZZ572.
A baller because he has the latest and greatest aluminum block, that's all ... and he spoke about polishing it ... but I think he's gonna leave it alone and just have the race look/natural aluminum ... less work ...

[Blown 472]

Nice piece, whatcha going to do wif it?

[victorfb]

mike allways loved that coffee table made from and engine block and im thinking he wants to one up that dude. :cool:
nice purchase mike, cant wait to see whats decorating it. alcohol injection? nawwwwww, im betting twin turbo since its just going in a river runner. :p

[cyclone]

Beautiful looking piece. Please tell us you got the bigger lifter diameter option, the higher cam tunnel option...and maybe the Ford needle roller bearing option? :D
LO
(Edit) Took a closer look at the photos...looks oem configuration?
not oem. :crossx:

[cyclone]

Please dont tell me that's going in your jet boat.
Ok i wont tell you anything justin.

[cyclone]

133 WITH the main caps installed.
I just caught that.
Sweet.
Nice block BTW,
Brian
thanks brian.

[cyclone]

Nice piece, whatcha going to do wif it?
I thought i'd make the fastest remote controlled go kart on the planet.

[wsuwrhr]

Maybe this season we can race alloy block against alloy block?
Dodge versus Chevy, flat versus jet.
All in fun, of course.
Brian

[cyclone]

Maybe this season we can race alloy block against alloy block?
Dodge versus Chevy, flat versus jet.
All in fun, of course.
Brian
that would be fun. Should be a good race. Let me know when you are ready to bring it to the track. What boat are you putting the alloy block in and is it a Hemi motor?

[wsuwrhr]

that would be fun. Should be a good race. Let me know when you are ready to bring it to the track. What boat are you putting the alloy block in and is it a Hemi motor?
No Hemi, I wish.
By the time you are done buying Hemi valvetrain, it will cost nearly as much as the cylinder heads. More importantly, Hemis dont work really well without a blower anyway, that most likely means injection too. Just too many parts to buy.
Unfortunately, boating isn't my only hobby.
I am putting the alloy motor in the Hondo T-deck Sprint Flat I bought.
Before the kool-aid drinkers get ahold of this, my post is by no means a call out, more like friendly banter.
Good choice on the block though. The last one you will ever have to buy.
Re-sleeve/bore/hone and you are back in bidness.
Brian

[Cs19]

does it have the large cam tunnell mike? does it take the .904 lifters?
bad ass block you bastard.

[Cs19]

My block is only 69 lbs. heavier with the caps on.
CS trying to not be jealous 19

[Taylorman]

Is weight savings the only reasoning for getting an alum block? Are you going to be making more power than the last engine?

[LGCDEVIL]

How much does my iron tall deck merlinII weigh?

[steelcomp]

Is weight savings the only reasoning for getting an alum block? Are you going to be making more power than the last engine?
Less power potential with aluminum block, and weight savings can be offset with power loss, given everything else the same. I have a feeling that Mike's going to be upping the power to the point that he'll be way past what he might lose (due to block being aluminum) over his last set up. If the only thing being changed is the block, don't expect more power.

[steelcomp]

More importantly, Hemis dont work really well without a blower anyway
That's true with Chrysler Hemi heads, but the AR Ford Hemi's were designed for NA, and work better than most, Hemi or not. :D

[cyclone]

does it have the large cam tunnell mike? does it take the .904 lifters?
bad ass block you bastard.
yes.

[cyclone]

Is weight savings the only reasoning for getting an alum block? Are you going to be making more power than the last engine?
the goal is to save a couple hundred pounds of weight and to make the same power as my old blower motor.

[wsuwrhr]

Less power potential with aluminum block, and weight savings can be offset with power loss, given everything else the same. I have a feeling that Mike's going to be upping the power to the point that he'll be way past what he might lose (due to block being aluminum) over his last set up. If the only thing being changed is the block, don't expect more power.
Steelcomp,
I read your posts, and I respect your opinions. I have heard the statement before and I never gave it a second thought.
What is the reason?
Is it due to the rapid heat conductivity of aluminum? Or something else?
Wouldn't aluminum heads have the same problem?
Brian

[Taylorman]

the goal is to save a couple hundred pounds of weight and to make the same power as my old blower motor.
1000 hp NA, wow, that should be unreal. Tunnel ram or single carb? Not pump gas for sure. What kind of heads?

[BUSBY]

1000 hp NA, wow, that should be unreal. Tunnel ram or single carb? Not pump gas for sure. What kind of heads?
oh yeah ... pump gas (87 octane) and a single 350cfm 2 barrel electric choke carb! he's going for the unheard of! oh yeah ... the heads ... he's making an adapter plate to run SBC double hump heads ... I heard they were the sh*t! :D
j/k
.

[maxwedge]

I look at it like this. Brodix cashed my check two months ago so that money is long gone. The block showed up today and all i did was sign for it so yeah, its sort of like getting it for free. :rolleyes:
Using this same logic, if I give you 20 bucks for it, it will seem like you made a nice profit, right? So do you want Paypal, or can I just send a check? :D

[Taylorman]

oh yeah ... pump gas (87 octane) and a single 350cfm 2 barrel electric choke carb! he's going for the unheard of! oh yeah ... the heads ... he's making an adapter plate to run SBC double hump heads ... I heard they were the sh*t! :D
Busby, check your pm.

[BUSBY]

Using this same logic, if I give you 20 bucks for it, it will seem like you made a nice profit, right? So do you want Paypal, or can I just send a check? :D
now that's funny! :D

[steelcomp]

Steelcomp,
I read your posts, and I respect your opinions. I have heard the statement before and I never gave it a second thought.
What is the reason?
Is it due to the rapid heat conductivity of aluminum? Or something else?
Wouldn't aluminum heads have the same problem?
Brian
One word....rigidity. Aluminum blocks aren't nearly as rigid as iron blocks, and therefore don't hold their shape. Rings don't seal as well, heads don't seal as well, cylinders don't stay round, blocks grow and flex, etc. To illlustrate, look at an NHRA pro stock block. Not only are they cast iron, but they're way thicker and heavier than even something like Bowtie or Merlin block, which are pretty damn stout. I was at Dart when we dynoed the very first Rocket small block, and the engine was built to indentical specs as another small block, just to be able to determine the difference a block can make. On a 400 ci. motor, in the 500 hp range, I think the difference was near 40 hp. This was attributed soley to the block being stronger, and holding it's shape better.
Yes, aluminum heads have the same problem, and will typically not make as much hp as a comparable iron head. The thinking is more on thermal losses in the chamber, but I believe that the rigidity and dimensional changes also plays a part.

[Taylorman]

One word....rigidity. Aluminum blocks aren't nearly as rigid as iron blocks, and therefore don't hold their shape. Rings don't seal as well, heads don't seal as well, cylinders don't stay round, blocks grow and flex, etc. To illlustrate, look at an NHRA pro stock block. Not only are they cast iron, but they're way thicker and heavier than even something like Bowtie or Merlin block, which are pretty damn stout. I was at Dart when we dynoed the very first Rocket small block, and the engine was built to indentical specs as another small block, just to be able to determine the difference a block can make. On a 400 ci. motor, in the 500 hp range, I think the difference was near 40 hp. This was attributed soley to the block being stronger, and holding it's shape better.
Yes, aluminum heads have the same problem, and will typically not make as much hp as a comparable iron head. The thinking is more on thermal losses in the chamber, but I believe that the rigidity and dimensional changes also plays a part.
Not to disagree with you cause i don't know crap but there was an article in a recent car magazine. I can't remember which one. They tested iron vs alum heads with all the same specs to see if they made any difference in power. No difference was noted between the same spec alum or iron heads. Same power from both.

[WUTWZAT]

the goal is to save a couple hundred pounds of weight and to make the same power as my old blower motor.
See Mike if you were FAT like the rest of us you could just go on a diet and to drop that weight and keep the blower motor. Ha, you know I got nuthin but love for ya.
Its been too long, whens the next river trip or are you just going to be racing your boat at the track now?
Jason

[cyclone]

See Mike if you were FAT like the rest of us you could just go on a diet and to drop that weight and keep the blower motor. Ha, you know I got nuthin but love for ya.
Its been too long, whens the next river trip or are you just going to be racing your boat at the track now?
Jason
Hey jason how you doin? I think there's at least 10 lbs of budlight somewhere in me that i could stand to lose. 1st river trip will be sometime in May at BR. :)

[victorfb]

obviously its a guessing game of what mike has up his sleeve. remember he DID sell the old blower, so maybe a new BIGGER blower? alcohol injection? then again, maybe he is looking to keep it a river runner and go twin turbo... naaawwwww.
as for the aluminum vs iron dealio, physics play a roll here. of course there would be no change in comparison of HP with all specs being equall. the reason many go with aluminum heads is the fact that chamber sizes and shapes differ, runner volumes and sizes differ, ect, ect... plus when your trying to run pump gas on over 10.5-1 comp, the aluminums give you the added security of detonation. but dont discount iron heads, they make great power aswell. but they are limited.

[cyclone]

Hey vic how are you and Toni doin?
There's no big guessing game. The new motor will be medium sized, naturally aspirated with 1 carburetor. I was just excited my engine block finally arrived. :)

[steelcomp]

as for the aluminum vs iron dealio, physics play a roll here. of course there would be no change in comparison of HP with all specs being equall.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying there's no HP difference between alum. and iron, all else being the same?

[steelcomp]

Not to disagree with you cause i don't know crap but there was an article in a recent car magazine. I can't remember which one. They tested iron vs alum heads with all the same specs to see if they made any difference in power. No difference was noted between the same spec alum or iron heads. Same power from both.
I don't mind if you disagree with me. You stick with magazine articles, and I'll stick with facts. I'm not guessing at this, ya know. :D

[victorfb]

Hey vic how are you and Toni doin?
There's no big guessing game. The new motor will be medium sized, naturally aspirated with 1 carburetor. I was just excited my engine block finally arrived. :)
hey mike, we are doing ok thanks. had a bummer christmas as toni's father passed away and now a few days ago her grandfather passed aswell. but she and her mom are hangin in there.
as for the new block... well hell yea you better be excited man. that thing is way cool. kinda surprized its going to be a single carb N/A deal, but hey, welcome back.lol hope to see you and the mrs real soon.

[victorfb]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying there's no HP difference between alum. and iron, all else being the same?
i was refering to taylormans post about the dyno comparison on aluminum heads. i realize the iron heads will eventually show a slightly increased amount of power once the heat builds up, but i suppose it all depends on how long the dyno runs are. being both heads identicle in castings, same size and shape chambers and runners and valves, ect. i dont see how there could be much of a differance. what i meant was that the aluminum heads are much easier modified, and most come with improvements over the cast iron stuff.

[Cs19]

got a dyno date yet mike?

[steelcomp]

what i meant was that the aluminum heads are much easier modified, and most come with improvements over the cast iron stuff.
That's a true statement.
Sorry to hear about your losses lately. I lost two friends this week in the Goleta postal shooting. I have two funerals to go to tomorrow. It sucks.

[victorfb]

wow, real sorry steelcomp. its never easy thats for sure. my condolences.

[cyclone]

got a dyno date yet mike?
nope. got to buy more parts first. hoping to be ready for march but that's going to be a longshot if the pistons take too long to get.

[Blown 472]

nope. got to buy more parts first. hoping to be ready for march but that's going to be a longshot if the pistons take too long to get.
You better get some fast acting servos for that car.

[cyclone]

You better get some fast acting servos for that car.
If need be i'll bogart the one out of my rc10. :)

[Taylorman]

Is this gonna be a high compression motor?

[cyclone]

Is this gonna be a high compression motor?
It'll run on 91.

[Fiat48]

Get heads for this from this guy:
http://www.epdracing.com/eb1.htm

[cyclone]

Thanks for the info Fiat. that's not a bad deal if the heads work as good as they say they do. not bad at all with titanium valves and all the good stuff.

[Fiat48]

He's the king of cylinder heads in my opinion. His stuff works. Ask for Larry.

[cyclone]

if i ever need another set of heads i'll look into it. thanks again.

[Taylorman]

It'll run on 91.
So your building a 1000 hp NA pump gas single carb motor. Can wait to see the parts your putting in it.

[cyclone]

That's what i'm after. when its all together i'll put pics of the motor up. But I won't be posting pics or info about the parts inside it nor will the dyno sheet be up here. I'll glady post up timeslips from the track though. :)

[Cs19]

shh its a secret. :)

[cyclone]

:cool:

[steelcomp]

Get heads for this from this guy:
http://www.epdracing.com/eb1.htm
I got an intake I'll sell ya...real cheap. :rolleyes:

[steelcomp]

That's what i'm after. when its all together i'll put pics of the motor up. But I won't be posting pics or info about the parts inside it nor will the dyno sheet be up here. I'll glady post up timeslips from the track though. :)What's all the mystery about? :idea:

[cyclone]

I made a promise to a good friend that i wouldnt let info about my combo out. :)

[wsuwrhr]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/63indymaxxblock-med.jpg
Indy's RB answer to an aftermarket block.
Brian

[cyclone]

that's a sexy beast right there. how long till its rumbling in your boat?

[wsuwrhr]

that's a sexy beast right there. how long till its rumbling in your boat?
Thanks, I am sure yours will be running sooner.
Way too much work. It is a good thing and bad thing at the same time.
I have had it a year. I bounced it off the stand when my iron motor for the jet needed attention. Just sitting under a bag in the corner of the garage. I got to get on that thing.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

that's a sexy beast right there. how long till its rumbling in your boat?
When I posted pictures of mine, SteelComp thought I should have it cyro'ed, he suggested Cstraub could help out with that.
I was wondering if you are planning on doing anything special to the block?
Brian

[steelcomp]

When I posted pictures of mine, SteelComp thought I should have it cyro'ed, he suggested Cstraub could help out with that.
I was wondering if you are planning on doing anything special to the block?
Brian
It's a good idea. Definately helps with thermal stability. Also might think of stress relieving. (Metalax) I don't know if these blocks are Metalaxed from the factory, but if they're not, that's the least I'd do. Cryo is the ultimate prep. Chris Straub probably has a connection, and Dart is another source for Cryo, as they have been cold treating their TF heads since the late 80's. They also do Metalaxing, but I'm sure there are sources here on the west coast, as well. Alan Johnson may be another connection. Since they bought out Rodack, and are making all the billet TF blocks now, they might have a source. I don't know if they cryo the TF blocks, but I do know they have a Metalax table in the shop. I have business there tomorrow...I'll find out more.

[LakesOnly]

GM:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8183-med.JPG
Mopar:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/63indymaxxblock-med.jpg
Can I play? :D
Ford:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350BlockCrank1.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Bastard2.jpg
Still needs a complete freshen and assembly, but I know you guys can see past that. I bought it used, but is has some world record setting jet boat history history to it (15 years ago, and pretty much sitting ever since). It'll be going into the hydro. I bought the whole engine carbs to crank, less Danny Bee.
LO
P.s.: Fiat, please, no more "get the hydro done." I'm working on it! :D Slowly...

[LakesOnly]

PS: no personal experience with these guys, but since they are in all of our neck of the woods (and apparently motorsports fanatics), I plan to bring at least one engine here:
http://www.nwcryo.com/
LO

[wsuwrhr]

Can I play? :D
LO
Sure can.
The big three are representin' heavy this year.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Cyro wasn't that much money. We did some stuff last year, and it was alot cheaper than I thought.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

NW Cryo seems high on pricing. I wonder if it is like anything else, "you get what you pay for"
for a block between 100-150lbs it is $5/lb
about $650.
Brian

[steelcomp]

Is that a crack in the no.2 ex. lifter bore? Looks like more than a freshen and assy.GM:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_8183-med.JPG
Mopar:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/63indymaxxblock-med.jpg
Can I play? :D
Ford:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350BlockCrank1.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Bastard2.jpg
Still needs a complete freshen and assembly, but I know you guys can see past that. I bought it used, but is has some world record setting jet boat history history to it (15 years ago, and pretty much sitting ever since). It'll be going into the hydro. I bought the whole engine carbs to crank, less Danny Bee.
LO
P.s.: Fiat, please, no more "get the hydro done." I'm working on it! :D Slowly...

[LakesOnly]

That's a negative, no crack(s). The straight line in the bore is probably from when the lifter was pulled out. The squiggly line that runs from the bore and up the center cross-rib in the valley (and thanks to camera angle it happens to line up with the line in the lifter bore!) is just a dried bit of oil residue from contact cleaner. (In fact if you look closely, you'll see similar residue lines elsewhere in the valley.)
Interesting how a camera can highlight this kind of stuff. With nothing else to go by, it sure looks scary! By the way good eye, 'Comp. Had I not looked at the block so closely in person and had only the pic to go by, I'd wave the same red flag, fo-o-o-o-o-ock!
LO
p.s.: motor was never hurt, no blower, no N20, etc. About 40 passes total. I'll post more about this motor in another thread when it's going together...this is Cyclone's deal here.

[LakesOnly]

NW Cryo seems high on pricing. I wonder if it is like anything else, "you get what you pay for"
for a block between 100-150lbs it is $5/lb
about $650.
BrianGo back to their price list page and scroll farther down past their generalized "price-per-pound" list, and you'll see a "motorsports/automotive" price list. In that list, they will cryogenically treat an entire V8 engine for just $625.
I just realized they are in Little Rock, and I will be there Friday, looking at three engines. Maybe I'll check 'em out.
LO

[blowngas]

what's the life expectancy on an aluminum block circulating raw water----the raw water and electrolisis sure played hell with my heads, and manifold with not much run time on them-----would be interested to know how long before it eats up the block around the sleeves-----or will this be an exchanger cooled setup?

[wsuwrhr]

what's the life expectancy on an aluminum block circulating raw water----the raw water and electrolisis sure played hell with my heads, and manifold with not much run time on them-----would be interested to know how long before it eats up the block around the sleeves-----or will this be an exchanger cooled setup?
This is a concern of mine as well.
Brian

[cstraub]

When I posted pictures of mine, SteelComp thought I should have it cyro'ed, he suggested Cstraub could help out with that.
I was wondering if you are planning on doing anything special to the block?
Brian
Brian,
Years ago I was introduced to the Meta-Lax system, vibrational stress relieveing. I was leary at first of the claims by the guy that owned the machine so he did some "free" work for the company I worked for at the time. Long story short, it does extend the life of parts. We had a class that used stamped steel rockers in circle track. A non stress relieved set would run 3 races and have broken parts. A stress relieved set would go 18 races. We did a test with 2 entire engines. Both built for circle track with the same parts by the same builder. After a season of 6500 rpm laps one engine had 15% leakage, it did not have the stress relieving, the 2nd had 4%. It was stress relieved.
Valve springs seem to gain quite a bit. They receive alot of stress during mfg. Spring life is greatly increased with stress relieving. Key is to compress springs to their intended installed height and stress relieve them.
Aluminum Blocks and Water.
A couple of my customers use the ceramic block sealer. They will put 2 to 3 bottles in each side with some warm water and then seal up the water jackets and put 30 to 40 psi. of air in them and let them sit for 24 to 48 hours. This will coat the water jackets and help ward off the corrosion.
Chris

[MandDPerformance]

The cat was more or less out of the bag already.
I ran my Brodix block for a full year already in the Lookie Lu. Already freshining it up.
You guys are old school!!!!! :cool:

[LakesOnly]

what's the life expectancy on an aluminum block circulating raw water?My heads have had the cooling jackets lined with glass epoxy, or "bowling ball epoxy" as it's known (don't let the name fool you). Same approach as the the ceramic sealer that Straub mentioned.
LO

[Cs19]

I ran my Brodix block for a full year already in the Lookie Lu. Already freshining it up.
You guys are old school!!!!! :cool:
hes just scared of the fast jetboats that are going to be on the water next season. :) :)

[MandDPerformance]

hes just scared of the fast jetboats that are going to be on the water next season. :) :)
Scared? No!!!
Looking forward to the challengers? Hell yes!!!! :cool:

[cyclone]

sounds like a meeting at lost lake is in order for you two. maybe 4th of july weekend? :cool:

[Cs19]

how about this weekend? im hitching up tomorrow after work and getting the fock out of here and staying till monday.
I might just stay out there and never come back :skull:

[MandDPerformance]

That aint right Chris. I wish I could follow!!! Have fun and come back in one piece. "When you do come back" :)

[Cs19]

ill lay a pass down and have a cold one at the quin bar in your honor tony.