Engine Guys.Oil Temp? & Water Pressure?

[Sandbar Mike]

I have always seen high oil temps with my big block engines. The Oil Temp sensor is located in the bottom of the 10 Quart Canton Pan. I have added a Huge Teague Oil Cooler, an HP6 Oil Housing/Filter and -12 Oil lines throughout to eliminate the Higher oil temps.
I have had my new 565 out for 1 hour of run time; After a good run at around 3500 to 4000rpm I'm seeing temps around 200-230. At Wide open around 5600rpm i can see a rise in oil temp up to 240 and climbing. I have always tried to keep 240 my ceiling. When I drop RPM back down to 4000rpm oil temps cool down pretty good. back down to around 180-190.
Will a water pressure regulator aid in dropping oil temps, is it possible to have too much water pressure. Sounds stupid, but I have friends with similar set ups that run butt cold on oil temps all the time.
I can't quite nail this one down.
My set-up is water in from the stock bravo drive pick-up to the sea water pump, to the oil cooler, to the power steering cooler into the engine then out the exhaust. I do not have a thermostat.
What do you guys think?

[WannabeRacing]

I would let the engine break in before I made any judgement calls.
If the thing is brand new, it will run hot till everything meshes, seats, etc. Especially when cutting new rings, the thing will tend to get real hot.

[LynnsJet]

Here is some information from an old posting that might help you:
Below 180: Superflow recommends to not even load an engine on the brake below 180 degrees because on a hard pull damage may occur.
180-200: Min operating temp that you want to hammer hard on a performance engine.
200 to 230 Temp. This range is optimum for power and hammering an engine.
230-260 Temp: This range is the beginning where fatigue cam happen to bearings. Short runs in this temp range are okay but sustained running time within this range will shorten engine life. As pointed out also the max you want to push dino oils.
260 to 300: This range is the extreme for a performance engine and only recommened with synthetic oil. Some high end applications will run 275 to 285 oil temp but these engines get full teardowns after 3 to 4 hours of this time of temp. These are also drysump engine with 20 qt systems so oil break down takes alot longer due to the volume of the oil in the system.
Over 300: Not a question of IF, just When...
good luck

[Sandbar Mike]

I think the ideal temp for my set up would be to run no hotter than 230 on hard runs.

[DMOORE]

Mike, out of curiousity, are your water temps holding steady? As far as water pressure, yes you can have too much, but, it wouldn't cause your oil temp to rise. My motors water system is set-up with the same routing. Is there a possibility that you are not getting enough oil flow through the cooler?
Darrell.

[Stingray69]

-Do you have the 30psi bypass valves in the block instead of the low pressure auto ones?
-Could the sea pump impeller be going bad?
-Do you have steam lines connecting the front of the manifold to the rear, on each side?
-Could there be blockage in the oil cooler on the water side?

[Sandbar Mike]

Water temp never comes off the peg, always under 140 degrees. the only time the water temp will come off the peg is if I shut down the engine just after runnin a high oil temp.I will notice the water temp gauge reacting and showing the standing water temp in the intake manifold.
I know I'm getting good oil flow through the cooler due to the oil temps cooling down rather quickly at lower RPM's.
-Do you have the 30psi bypass valves in the block instead of the low pressure auto ones? I do not have bypass valves
-Could the sea pump impeller be going bad? Brand new impeller, i know i have tons of water pressure.
-Do you have steam lines connecting the front of the manifold to the rear, on each side? No,
-Could there be blockage in the oil cooler on the water side? I pulled the cooler apart and found absolutly no blockage.
Thanks for the questions
My water temp sensor is right behind the double neck water outlet coming out of the intake maifold to each exhaust manifold.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/40f004.JPG

[Stingray69]

To try and VERIFY that the temp gauge and sender are accurate, try shooting an infrared temp gun at the cooler, oil pan, and oil path.

[Sandbar Mike]

To try and VERIFY that the temp gauge and sender are accurate, try shooting an infrared temp gun at the cooler, oil pan, and oil path.
Funny you said that, my mechanic and I were talking about that. He's going to let me borrow it my next trip out.

[gn7]

the oil temp gauge is prolly ok based on the temps your running at lower rpm. The water thru the cooler goes straight to the cooler and not thru something else first RIGHT? Sounds crazy but I've seen it way too many times. What kind of valve train are you running in that piece? Flat taappet and skid ball rockers will heat oil something fierce. If so, pop for syn. oil and your temps will come down considerably, if fact do it anyway

[Sandbar Mike]

Hydraulic Cam, Full Roller valve train. I agree with sythetic oil, how long of break in time before you recommend Synthetic?

[gn7]

that whole thing about break in and syn. is 99% wives tale, if wasn't turbo porsches and z06 corvetts, and cadillac cts-v's would be in deep $hit. Change it now.

[BDMar]

Don't overlook the possibility of too much oil in the pan. The pan should be filled off the engine and the dipstick marked accordingly. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a "10 qt. pan" be too full with 10 qts.

[gn7]

Don't overlook the possibility of too much oil in the pan. The pan should be filled off the engine and the dipstick marked accordingly. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a "10 qt. pan" be too full with 10 qts.
MORE OIL, MORE OIL, the biggest sin in boating

[Sandbar Mike]

So your saying it may be too full if oil is filled to the acurate dipstick level.
I have always tried to keep the oil level a QRT shy of the full level on the dipstick. What do you guys recommend?

[Sandbar Mike]

BD your boat is bad ass, My next boat will be a LP Daytona w/Twins. Looks Awsome!

[gn7]

What bdmar is saying is that only way you are going to know the exact oil level you need is to have the pan off, but don't go any lower than you are now.

[BDMar]

BD your boat is bad ass, My next boat will be a LP Daytona w/Twins. Looks Awsome!
Thanks Mike, this is my favorite lake boat by far!
What bdmar is saying is that only way you are going to know the exact oil level you need is to have the pan off, but don't go any lower than you are now.
Exactly, I'm not saying that is your problem, but it could be. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is drop the pan. High oil temps can be attributed to many things. One thing to consider is you are getting your temp in the oil pan. That is the highest reading you are going to get. From the pan it goes through the pump, filter, oil cooler, then through the bearings etc. The oil in the pan has gone through the stress of lubricating the entire engine and running down through the hot engine and into the pan. In the pan there is blowby, even with good ring seal there will be a little, and many other factors contributing to heating up the oil. I have seen oil temp senders in every place you can immagine. I suggest checking the oil temp as it leaves the cooler. The temp of the oil lubricating the engine will be somwhere between that reading and what you see in the pan.
One last thing.... you stated that you have no bypass valves. Sounds funny to me. In the block above the filter location should have a bypass valve. If not it could allow some of the oil to bypass the filter and cooler resulting in unfiltered oil and higher oil temperatures.
A normally aspirated engine like yours should not have oil temp problems with the cooler you are using.

[Sandbar Mike]

A normally aspirated engine like yours should not have oil temp problems with the cooler you are using.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way.
I have an hp6 filter and housing mounted to the transom. There is a oil bypass block off which is installed in the place of where the stock oil filter location would be, my -12 lines run from there. I wonder if that bypass /block off has a bypass valve. Should it?? This could be a major cause of higher oil temps and higher RPM???

[BDMar]

I have an hp6 filter and housing mounted to the transom. There is a oil bypass block off which is installed in the place of where the stock oil filter location would be, my -12 lines run from there. I wonder if that bypass /block off has a bypass valve. Should it?? This could be a major cause of higher oil temps and higher RPM???
I have never seen any type of billett or any adapter that would negate the use of the bypass valve. It goes in the block above where the adapter would mount. It is designed to let the oil bypass the filter if it were to get plugged. If the valve is not there it would allow some of the oil to freely bypass the filter and cooler. I have never seen any block without the need for these.... GM, Dart, or Merlin. I could be wrong but dont think so:confused: :D
Next time you see us at Havasu stop by for a cocktail:)

[gn7]

if the block off spun on like a filter then the original bypass could (is) still there, thats the thing the filter spins on to. if the block off bolted on with two 5/16 bolts, then no the blockoff itself does not have a bypass. the HP-6 FILTER does have a bypass in it just like all Ford type filters, but you would still be cooling all the oil that the pump is putting out. I'd hate to think how hot you could get that oil without a cooler.

[BDMar]

if the block off spun on like a filter then the original bypass could (is) still there, thats the thing the filter spins on to. if the block off bolted on with two 5/16 bolts, then no the blockoff itself does not have a bypass. the HP-6 FILTER does have a bypass in it just like all Ford type filters, but you would still be cooling all the oil that the pump is putting out. I'd hate to think how hot you could get that oil without a cooler.
Good point.... if it is a GM Mark IV block only. The Gen V and Gen VI GM blocks and the Darts and Merlins, the bypass goes in the block.
Heres how to tell if it is a GM mark IV.... if it has a fuel pump boss for a mechanical fuel pump on the starboard (right) side front of the block it is a Mark IV and the bypass is not the problem. If it is an aftermarket block, it takes one in the block.
What GN7 is talking about is the Mark IV block originally had a cast aluminum adapter with a very low pressure bypass built into it. I can't immagine whoever installed the billett adapter would leave that in... but I've seen stranger things:D A high volume oil pump will push some oil past that valve too.
Sooooooo what block do you have??

[Stingray69]

The bypasses don't open unless excess pressure is encountered in the oil system. The Marine 30psi ones are higher than the auto ones so that the restrictions of the oil lines, cooler, and remote oil filter can cause more restriction pressure than the 12psi or whatever auto bypass valves. Some hardcore guys will drill and tap the holes for plugs, to INSURE that all oil is filtered and cooled; at the risk of having an incredibly messy result, should there be an absolute blockage.
If you have no bypass valves in your block, then this allows the oil to return to the pan without filtering or cooling, for at least some of oil.
You can yank them out with motor installed, but it's a real bummer; you might have to raise it some. You can install them by simply slamming them up into the block, and making a small stake or two around the holes edge to retain it.
A friend of mine went thru this, with an auto crate motor and auto pan, in his boat.

[Sandbar Mike]

Good point.... if it is a GM Mark IV block only. The Gen V and Gen VI GM blocks and the Darts and Merlins, the bypass goes in the block.
Heres how to tell if it is a GM mark IV.... if it has a fuel pump boss for a mechanical fuel pump on the starboard (right) side front of the block it is a Mark IV and the bypass is not the problem. If it is an aftermarket block, it takes one in the block.
What GN7 is talking about is the Mark IV block originally had a cast aluminum adapter with a very low pressure bypass built into it. I can't immagine whoever installed the billett adapter would leave that in... but I've seen stranger things:D A high volume oil pump will push some oil past that valve too.
Sooooooo what block do you have??
I have a dart block, It's got to have bypass. What am I thinking.:D Thanks for the help guys,
BD I will take you up on that Coctail!