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Not So Fast
02-22-2007, 02:01 PM
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 11:25 a.m. MT Feb 22, 2007
PHOENIX - The 25 million Americans who rely on the Colorado River for water should expect continued — and even worsening — drought spells and water shortages as rising temperatures and growing populations create a double whammy, experts warned in a new report.
The experts, convened by the National Research Council, based their concerns on climate models and recent studies that found a cycle of droughts in the region over time. The studies used tree-ring histories to reconstruct local climate patterns over the last 500 years.
"These reconstructions, along with temperature trends and projections for the region, suggest that future droughts will recur and that they may exceed the severity of droughts of historical experience, such as the drought of the late 1990s and early 2000s," the experts wrote in the report released Wednesday.
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The report said the region should expect higher temperatures that melt snow too early and allow too much runoff to evaporate.
"Temperature records across the Colorado River basin and the western United States document a significant warming over the past century," the experts noted. "These temperature records, along with climate model projections that forecast further increases, collectively suggest that temperatures across the region will continue to rise for the foreseeable future."
More than 25 million people in seven states — Arizona, California, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah and Wyoming — rely on the Colorado River for water and power. The river also supports a diverse riparian system that has suffered as flows dropped.
'Trade-off choices' necessary
The report said the combination of threats could overwhelm the seven river states, which have struggled to produce a short-term drought plan.
The scientists did not propose specific policy changes, but urged Western water managers to work together on new ideas and prepare to make difficult decisions about how water is used.
"The basin is going to face increasingly costly, controversial and unavoidable trade-off choices," said Ernest Smerdon, a former dean of engineering at the University of Arizona and one of the report's authors. "Our hope would be that the community and the decision-makers will have planned before crises occur."
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The experts noted that population pressure has added to the problem. Arizona's population grew by 40 percent in the 1990s, they noted, while Colorado's grew by 30 percent.
Water conservation measures have helped somewhat, but consumption has boomed in certain areas. For example, Nevada's Clark County, which includes Las Vegas, saw water use double from 1985 to 2000.
"The combination of limited water supplies, rapidly increasing populations, warmer regional temperatures, and the specter of recurrent drought point to a future in which the potential for conflict among existing and prospective new water users will prove endemic," the research council said in a statement that accompanied the report.
The report was commissioned by the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, the Southern Nevada Water Authority and two California water agencies.
No panacea
Growing cities will force states to strike more deals with farmers for water rights, but even that supply is limited, according to the scientists.
In addition, the report ruled out the idea of a solution built around conservation or water-saving technologies.
"Technological and conservation options for augmenting or extending water supplies — although useful and necessary — in the long run will not constitute a panacea for coping with the reality that water supplies in the Colorado River basin are limited, and that demand is inexorably rising," the experts wrote.
Much of the region has seen severe drought since the late 1990s, with 2002 and 2004 being among the 10 driest years on record in the upper basin states of Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming.
Water storage in basin reservoirs dropped sharply during that time due to very low streamflows, the experts noted. For example, 2002 water year flows into Lake Powell were roughly 25 percent of average.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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phebus
02-22-2007, 02:05 PM
Maybe everyone will end up back in little jet boats again. :D Everything goes full cycle.

Ziggy
02-22-2007, 02:06 PM
very cyclical.
At least Havasu uses groundwater.:)

OGShocker
02-22-2007, 02:07 PM
The ol' tree ring method.

TheLurker
02-22-2007, 02:10 PM
I see we read and posted the same article within minutes. Some good facts but I wonder if the writer is one of those global warming gloom and doom people. I'll delete my thread.

cdog
02-22-2007, 02:15 PM
EZ fix. De-salination plants. Or a big ass pipeline from the CA delta.

burtandnancy2
02-22-2007, 02:23 PM
cdog, the de-sal won't work, but the pipeline definately will. I'll elect you president if you promise to put it in...

3 daytona`s
02-22-2007, 02:24 PM
The problem started years ago when those wizards in charge allowed the pumping/diverting of the water hundreds of miles away.The fact that the South West is growing at a serious rate,along with the water comes from snow pack and years of above normal snow pack to remedy this dilema this is just the beginning.The casual observer looking at the previous water line at Powell and Mead can tell you this will not be a quick fix.The sad thing people do not worry about the future they want it now,and will deal with the future in the future. The presedence once set of allowing everyone to come in and claim a portion of the Colorado`s water is unbelievable.There should be a 50 mile limit of how far to divert.If you wish to live in Vegas and irrigate your golf course and lawn and have water fountains on the strip,I`m all for you just you discover where the water will come from and not the Colorado River.

cdog
02-22-2007, 02:26 PM
cdog, the de-sal won't work, but the pipeline definately will. I'll elect you president if you promise to put it in...
Wanna loan me some money until my hunch back brother straightens up?:D
Why no de-sal plant?

YeLLowBoaT
02-22-2007, 02:26 PM
not to worry nor cal will just send more water down tot so cal....
after all we don't need the water up here for ca #1( by far) industry now do we :rolleyes:

2Driver
02-22-2007, 02:34 PM
We can easily get by with about 30% less water usage and not miss a beat. The amount of fresh water waste I see is insane. It's a desert. You can bet that people will over water their Palm trees and grass until the spicket runs dry then wonder what happend.
Besides, the one study I saw had global warming creating a constant mild El Nino effect and they were saying the Southwest will become more tropical. I dont think they know what is going to happen but in the mean time the river is drawing waaaaaaaaay down and no sign of changing once again this year.

cdog
02-22-2007, 02:39 PM
We can easily get by with about 30% less water usage and not miss a beat. The amount of fresh water waste I see is insane. It's a desert.
Besides, the one study I saw had global warming creating a constant mild el nino effect and they were saying the Southwest will become more tropical.
I always wondered about that. Where did you see that article? Wouldn’t that be cool to see. Coconut palms in AZ.:)

acatitude
02-22-2007, 02:41 PM
EZ fix. De-salination plants. Or a big ass pipeline from the CA delta.
we are already sending our water your way.... part of our homeowners agreement... flush 3 times a day and send the water to LA...:D

cdog
02-22-2007, 02:44 PM
we are already sending our water your way.... part of our homeowners agreement... flush 3 times a day and send the water to LA...:D
Yuk. Thank god I'm not in LA. Anaheim Hills has its own reservoir.

Run_em_Hard
02-22-2007, 02:49 PM
The river by my house flooded last year, and so did most of southern Utah. The lake closest to me they are talking about raising the dyke so it can hold more water cause it was full full full last year.:idea:

RaceFace
02-22-2007, 03:09 PM
Looks like Lake Havasu is going to end up Pond Havasu :(
I think I'll have a beer.......

Ziggy
02-22-2007, 04:08 PM
Oceanside has their own De-Sal plant to suppliment imported water. One of the few things this city has done with brains. I think they wanted to do a bigger one in Carlsbad but it got shot down by some state agency so far...not 100% sure about that but its what I recall.
We should be light years further along in regard to being self sustaining.....

CA Stu
02-22-2007, 04:17 PM
Doesn't matter, we're all going to get blasted by the Meteorite anyway...:(
Thanks
CA Stu

beaverretriever
02-22-2007, 04:26 PM
Those damn Zebra Muscles drink alot of water too. We are doomed. :(

2Driver
02-22-2007, 06:32 PM
I always wondered about that. Where did you see that article? Wouldn’t that be cool to see. Coconut palms in AZ.:)
I forget where I saw it, it was about 2 years ago. National Geo maybe? It had maps with "new" coast lines, predicted temps and precip forecast as time goes on.
Who knows. It wasn't but in 1983 when the river couldn't get rid of all it's water. I have a picture of Parker Dam with all 4 gates wide open and the river level just below the gates!!! That was an awesome site. The cabanas pictured in my Avatar were under water for almost 2 summers

HTRDLNCN
02-22-2007, 06:41 PM
Our Colorado River is running dry..
So far Lake Travis is about 30ft down.
They say if the current weather trend continues
we will be down another 10ft by end of summer..
I took these pics yesterday :(
http://www.hotrodlincoln.org/lakesdown.jpg

ClownRoyal
02-22-2007, 06:48 PM
That is why we need ...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/medium/PHEBUS.jpg

Mandelon
02-22-2007, 06:51 PM
I'm tellin ya....AZ and NV will be paying for Cali's desal plants so they can have our portion of the Colorado river water allotment. Just wait.

AzMandella
02-22-2007, 07:29 PM
I'm tellin ya....AZ and NV will be paying for Cali's desal plants so they can have our portion of the Colorado river water allotment. Just wait.
No,we'll just trade you for electricity when your all crying about rolling blackouts in the summer because the tree huggers and politicians of Cali keep new powerplants from being built.

DMOORE
02-22-2007, 07:41 PM
Might be time for a jet boat so I'll just skip over those sandbars.:)
Darrell.

work2play
02-22-2007, 09:23 PM
Just a theory. If the bottom 10% of a bottle of pop is 80% backwash. Then we can assume that the bottom 8% of a lake is fish pee. With Lake Mead down 50% but with the same amount of fish. Then is lake mead 16% fish pee? IF that is correct, and the water in mohave and havasu comes off the bottom of mead.What percentage of Lake Havasu is fish pee. 90%

Relaxalot
02-22-2007, 09:49 PM
What goes on at the sandbar doesn't stay at the sandbar....it flows downstream.....

lawbreaker2
02-23-2007, 06:26 AM
We don't have any of those problems over here, We have plenty of water, we have so much was I'll just let the water run all over the ground while washing my truck, :D May be we could build a big pipeline from our lakes to lake pow.:idea:

HTRDLNCN
02-23-2007, 08:40 AM
Just a theory. If the bottom 10% of a bottle of pop is 80% backwash. Then we can assume that the bottom 8% of a lake is fish pee. With Lake Mead down 50% but with the same amount of fish. Then is lake mead 16% fish pee? IF that is correct, and the water in mohave and havasu comes off the bottom of mead.What percentage of Lake Havasu is fish pee. 90%
Helps get more speed out of the boats by thickening up the water..
:) :)

Mandelon
02-23-2007, 10:03 AM
No,we'll just trade you for electricity when your all crying about rolling blackouts in the summer because the tree huggers and politicians of Cali keep new powerplants from being built.
LOL, you are onto something there. Can't build a power plant here, oh no....the tree huggers here don't even want them built in Mexico so they can sell us power....f-ing lame.

Baja Big Dog
02-23-2007, 10:21 AM
What goes on at the sandbar doesn't stay at the sandbar....it flows downstream.....
They complain about the piss at the sandbar, were just doing our thing to keep the water level up!!!!

Baja Big Dog
02-23-2007, 10:24 AM
To quote the famous Sam Kinison, its a fucckin desert...not what its gonna be in another 100 years? A fucckin desert OHOHOHHHHHHHHHHH!!