Intake Leak Problem

[tittyman]

Have a 455 Olds..end of last year replaced the intake manifold gaskets..good kind not the turkey platter..manifold was leaking at both ends..got that to stop but it now leaks around the heads. Used gasket cinch on the head side and the manifold side. Going to redo now. Should I use the cinch on the head side and some RTV beads around the manifold or what..this is an almn. tunnel. Also bought the splash guard from Mondello that mounts down in the valley..good idea or bad..thanks..

[IMPATIENT 1]

your not using the pan style intake gasket are you? sounds like you need some felpro's and using some ford or gm assembly adhesive on the lips.i used to build dirt track claimer motors and i'd only put 6 bolts in the oil pan, use the assemblly adhesive and they never leaked, well we always got claimed before they did anyways:D

[twowheeledfish]

I've also had good luck with felpro gaskets... I use the Mopar sealant though.

[tittyman]

The ones I put in were fel pro..the kind where you have the 2 head gaskets and the front and rear pieces seperate..not the old style turkey platter one piece crap..

[jetboatperformance]

Give some thought to useing a hammer&small punch to "dot peen":::::::::the block and bottom of intake valley end seal surfaces ,toss the rubber and cork end seals ,make everything squeaky clean (brakekleen spray) and use the sealer instead like the folks here said.We use Permatex "rightstuff" this stuff liiterally turns to rubber (probably the same basic as the mopar,gms or toyota?) Best stuff since beer in cans. Also give that Olds as much crankcase breather area as you can (reduce the crankcase pressure),we like the big KNs even a pcv system helps some times. PM me i'll be happpy to explain more Good Luck Tom
BTW Mondellos old catalogue used to say that valley tray was worth like 5 hp ,hmmmm?? Ive got a couple on the wall.

[tittyman]

The ends don't leak at all now..that was the original problem..the leak now is between the top of the heads and the intake manifold..used silicon on the ends and just gasket cinch on the heads..I'm think the manifold has been on and off who knows how many times..should I just silicon the crap out of it..

[jbone]

Silly question, but do you mean vacuum leak, oil leak or water leak.
J

[tittyman]

I'm leaking oil between the intake manifold and the head on one side..

[jetboatperformance]

My bad probably haven't had enough coffee and didn't read enough! so your saying its leaking air (vacuum) ,say for example below the valve cover inner rail edges? or do you have oil showing there?? Tom

[tittyman]

It's leaking oil between the intake manifold and the head..has nothing to do with the valve cover..that seal appears to be just fine and has never leaked..

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Are you reusing the same gasket over and over? Use felpro printo-seal gaskets and on both sides of the gasket, use silicone. Budlight ps. never resuse gaskets if you can help it.

[jetboatperformance]

Could it be coming up around the intake bolts ?? Its hard to imagine a crankcase oil leak there that didn't produce a significant vacuum leak as well
Gotta a close up picture?? Tom

[tittyman]

Not reusing gaskets..both ends of the intake were originally leaking..after replaceing both ends and new felpro on both sides of the intake..one side of the intake leaks..rear problem was solved...guess I just need to know when I do this whole project again with new gaskets should I silicon the crap out of both head sides that seal the intake manifold to the gasket and just use gasket cinch between the head side of the gasket..

[b's sanger]

It's leaking oil between the intake manifold and the head..has nothing to do with the valve cover..that seal appears to be just fine and has never leaked..
Are you using the cork/rubber front and rear manifold gaskets or silicone?

[tittyman]

No it's not leaking through the bolts..it appears to be between the gasket and the manifold..

[tittyman]

Using rubber on the front and rear..not cork..the rears do not leak..

[b's sanger]

But at the front and rear of your tunnel ram where it meets the block. Is it sealed with a gasket or silicone?

[Wicked Performance Boats]

No it's not leaking through the bolts..it appears to be between the gasket and the manifold..
Silicone

[b's sanger]

Use silicone, your gaskets are likely not letting the tunnel ram sit flush on the heads. Oil galleys won't be sealed. Silicone will let it sit flush and still form a very tight front and rear seal.

[tittyman]

At the front and the rear, Mondello (suppose to be the Olds experts) said to place the front and rear onto the block without silicon..then on top of the rear and front gaskets use a large bead of silicon and place a dot of silicon in the four corners..use only gasket cinch between the manifold and the 2 other gaskets where they meet the ports of the intake..which I did..leaks like crazy..should I just silicon the grap around the intake when I redo or use some other technique..

[b's sanger]

At the front and the rear, Mondello (suppose to be the Olds experts) said to place the front and rear onto the block without silicon..then on top of the rear and front gaskets use a large bead of silicon and place a dot of silicon in the four corners..use only gasket cinch between the manifold and the 2 other gaskets where they meet the ports of the intake..which I did..leaks like crazy..should I just silicon the grap around the intake when I redo or use some other technique..
I had the same problem, but with water leakage on my Ford. I use Felpro intake gaskets between the tunnel ram and heads. The kind with the blue silicone beads around the port openings. At the front and rear where the tunnel ram meets the block I use only silicone and apply it liberally. I do put an extra amount at all four corners. Check the clearence visually before applying the silicone, this will give you and idea of of big of a bead to use. It should squeeze over the edges after its bolted down. I let it dry like that and then take a sharp exacto blade and carefully trim the outside edges flush. Its worked for me and I have had that sucker on and off several times.

[jetboatperformance]

I'd start over ,clean everthing check the geometry dry (no gaskets ) between the heads and the block (angles) and straight edge everything (could be a machine issue) then go back with good quality gaskets ,peen the ends and use sealant only at the end seals,also add a little sealant on the bolt threads , feel free to call if you need help Tom

[tittyman]

B'S Sanger..if I understand you..just silcone the crap out of the intake around the ports with blue silicone..di you just use a bead around the port openings or did you put a large bead around and then slightly smooth the bead down a little with a puddy knife..

[b's sanger]

No not the ports. That bead is manufactured into the gasket by Felpro. I'm talking about the front and rear seals between the tunnel ram and block not tunnel ram and heads. Your tunnel ram is an aftermarket piece and likely has some variation to its geometry compared to your factory heads and block. You want that thing to sit flush of the heads. It may be sitting slightly of the heads on your existing front anf rear rubber seals. And JBP is right, the geometry should be checked dry before slapping it back together. It wont take very long.

[tittyman]

I'm pretty sure I put Felpro gaskets on...they did not have a bead on them..is the bead a silicone.. is it applied at the factory and already on the gasket, or is it just a raised lip that seals around the ports..

[b's sanger]

I'm pretty sure I put Felpro gaskets on...they did not have a bead on them..is the bead a silicone.. is it applied at the factory and already on the gasket, or is it just a raised lip that seals around the ports..
It is a dried bead of silicone manufactured into the gasket. The bead is very thin and surrounds the port. The main issue you are likely having is your intake sitting on those rubber seals. Its likely createing small gaps between your intake and heads. Eliminate that and any intake gaskets will likely work.

[460 jus getn it]

Give some thought to useing a hammer&small punch to "dot peen":::::::::the block and bottom of intake valley end seal surfaces ,toss the rubber and cork end seals ,make everything squeaky clean (brakekleen spray) and use the sealer instead like the folks here said.We use Permatex "rightstuff" this stuff liiterally turns to rubber (probably the same basic as the mopar,gms or toyota?) Best stuff since beer in cans. Also give that Olds as much crankcase breather area as you can (reduce the crankcase pressure),we like the big KNs even a pcv system helps some times. PM me i'll be happpy to explain more Good Luck Tom
BTW Mondellos old catalogue used to say that valley tray was worth like 5 hp ,hmmmm?? Ive got a couple on the wall.Thats all i will use. I used felpro gaskets and rightstuff and it works great. I dont use the end gaskets at all. Have had to many issues with them.

[tittyman]

Speaking about Mondello and the Olds products they sell..in addition to purchasing the gaskets from them I also puchased this splash cover....after you remove the intake manifold you bolt there special cover down in the valley..suppose to stop the oil from splashing up onto the intake manifold..I'm a little unsure if I should install that oil splash guard when I redo the gaskets..any thoughts..they say its made especially for Olds applications and Mondello manufactures it..suppose to help eliminate the intake oil leak problems that Olds is known for....

[Devilman]

Thats all i will use. I used felpro gaskets and rightstuff and it works great.
Worked so good you you fixed it what, 5 or 6 times? :D
I dont use the end gaskets at all. Have had to many issues with them.
Aaaallllllrighty then. :D :D :D

[oldbuck40]

It is a dried bead of silicone manufactured into the gasket. The bead is very thin and surrounds the port. The main issue you are likely having is your intake sitting on those rubber seals. Its likely createing small gaps between your intake and heads. Eliminate that and any intake gaskets will likely work.
another thing too if the heads have been surfaced or milled you will need to get rid of the front and rear seal and just use silicone! olds have a much wider V made in the block than chevy or ford and it will make it difficult to seal if there has been too much taken off the heads. just do what b's sanger is talking about and you should be fine!

[oldbuck40]

Worked so good you you fixed it what, 5 or 6 times? :D
Aaaallllllrighty then. :D :D :D:D :D :D :D

[460 jus getn it]

Worked so good you you fixed it what, 5 or 6 times? :D
Aaaallllllrighty then. :D :D :DFirst off it was the timming cover seal leaking.
Second, wasnt my boat it was 396's olds that was blowing gaskets. I just happened to be there when it happened.:D :D :D

[460 jus getn it]

:D :D :D :DThe fock you:D :D :D .
Good day for the weather huh.

[tittyman]

Devilman..your right..it worked so good I'm going to have to fix it again..I bought the products from Mondellow (the so called Olds Gods) and followed there advise and instructions..even talked with the tech guy..should have just asked the guys here on the boards and fixed it right the first time..anybody still have any advise on there special oil splash guard..any body with and Olds install one...

[oldbuck40]

The fock you:D :D :D .
Good day for the weather huh.that was a nice way of not saying a thing lol aint doing much but roaming around!

[oldbuck40]

Devilman..your right..it worked so good I'm going to have to fix it again..I bought the products from Mondellow (the so called Olds Gods) and followed there advise and instructions..even talked with the tech guy..should have just asked the guys here on the boards and fixed it right the first time..anybody still have any advise on there special oil splash guard..any body with and Olds install one...yea throw it away! i've had olds and never run one.

[460 jus getn it]

Devilman..your right..it worked so good I'm going to have to fix it again..I bought the products from Mondellow (the so called Olds Gods) and followed there advise and instructions..even talked with the tech guy..should have just asked the guys here on the boards and fixed it right the first time..anybody still have any advise on there special oil splash guard..any body with and Olds install one...Ditch the rubber end seals and use THE RIGHTSTUFF gasket sealer. Make sure its cleaned up real good and you should be fine.

[oldbuck40]

Ditch the rubber end seals and use THE RIGHTSTUFF gasket sealer. Make sure its cleaned up real good and you should be fine.you left out one important side note!
dont eat KFC when putting on silicone!:D :D :D

[460 jus getn it]

you left out one important side note!
dont eat KFC when putting on silicone!:D :D :DIm trying to help the guy out. Stop jacking his thread.

[tittyman]

Called all the local parts suppliers in my area and no one has Felpro gaskets for a 455 Olds..which parts house can I get them at...turns out the ones I originally installed from Mondello Racing was Mr. Gasket which are just flat..sucks..hate to do stuff twice..

[b's sanger]

I went to www.fel-progaskets.com and you are right, nothing for the Olds. Don't worry too much. Again, your bis issue is lose seals and likely that tray, which probably wont let that thing sit flush. Tear it apart, clean it and set that tunnel ram on the heads dry. I bet you will see a difference in the space where lose seals were.

[jetboatperformance]

Titty man we use SCE's gaskets imprinted like described above(made in socal I belive)if you cant find them locally call me. The tray you refer to I dont belive has any down side ,we just dont bother It probably works well in Olds street car applications by protecting the heat crossover area (tunnel rams don't have this ) from oil splash and it may help with the turbulance and frothing created by the oil draining back over the cam . Like I said I got a couple of used trays I took out and didnt reuse,just my preference,(not a huge Mondello fan). The biggest problems with Olds Motors respective to oiling are drain back, crankcase pressure, oil supply too much oil in the upper end ,not enough in the lower (along with a multitude of other inherent design issues and idiosincracies (sp),a whole new thread)These thing however can all be easily overcome for $$ and the motor can make good power and work well . RE your leaks check you angles like the folks advised you clean everything carefully so you adhesives actually stick.And Let that crankcase breathe(Double breathers etc .Pressure is like water it take the "path of least resistance" so it pushes oil vapor out the easiest path it can find. Hope this helps Tom ***for some really nice Olds stuff if you haven't seen it check out the Rocket stuff,very cool!! ,i'll edit in the link later if I can find it ... time to go build hotrods

[oldselmn8tr]

Alright first off do not throw the tray away. It keeps the oil from spraying onto the bottom of the intake and preheating the intake it also redirects the oil downward and olds need as much help as they can get getting oil back to the pan. Just make sure you use some blue locktite on the hold down bolts. Secondly how are you getting oil leak between intake and heads beings that no oilflows through the intake? If your leaking oil there you are also having a vacuum leak because the oil has to be coming up from the valley and if the intake is lifted that much no way are you getting a good seal. I can see the end seals leaking oil but if its coming from between the heads and intake something is deffinately wrong there. Are you sure its not the v/c gaskets?:confused:

[tittyman]

No it's not the vc gaskets..originally it was leaking out the rear seal of the manifold..your only the second person who was aware of the splash pan I was referring to..some thought it was the old style valley tray gasket or turkey pan gasket I was referring to...so when I do this again..you think I should install the splash try that mounts down in the valley to prevent oil from splashing back up..guess you are aware of the tray I'm talking about from Mondello Racing..as you can tell most of the guys on the boards here just want me to remove the front and rear gaskets on the intake and replace the 2 other gaskets on the heads..having a hard time locating the ones like FelPro make the the silicone already on the gaskets...

[oldselmn8tr]

Yes run the splash shield. Its a felpro print o seal gasket, I have a set at work and will get you the part number tomorrow..:)As stated before though oil does not flow through the intake so if it is leaking oil there the intake is not seating correctly. Are you running Mondello exhaust crossover block off plates? If so take them out and throw them as far as you can! Check the intake for warpage and make sure you torque the intake with a torque wrench when reinstalling. One other thing make sure the intake bolts aren't to long and bottoming in there holes not allowing the intake to cinch down properly. Good luck and I will get those part #'s tomorrow.

[oldselmn8tr]

Felpro part #1356. :)

[71tahiti]

I bought a brand new edelbrock for my 455. I installed that intake 6 times and kept getting water leaks. CHECK MANIFOLD FOR STRAIGHTNESS!!!! Turned out EDELBROCK sent me a POS manifold!!!!! i spent 200 in gaskets and had to go out of town just to find one. Called Edelbrock and went up the latter. They asked me what I wanted to have happen " I want you to make a beer can out of the original intake and send me a new one. To their credit they did. DONT ASSUME THAT THE INTAKE IS TRUE. lesson #603-A

[oldselmn8tr]

Well at least you have an answer to your prob. Did you find those intake gskt's? Hope it all works out. You might also want to lay a straight edge on the heads and make sure the mating surface on the heads are true.

[roostwear]

Remove the intake and clean the surfaces thoroughly. Set the manifold on the engine WITHOUT the gaskets in place.. From the front and back, look at the head/manifold mating surfaces closely. Is there a gap at the top or bottom? Is the gap where the end seals go too small? If the gap is too small, the manifold will not seal to the heads as it can't come down far enough. If there is a gap at the top or bottom (or even cocked front to back), you'll need to determine which surface (head or manifold) is machined wrong and correct it. As stated earlier, pull the manifold off and put a straight edge to the sides. Even if it's straight, it doesn't mean it was machine parallel to the other side.
Good luck