Merc engine prices

[Taylorman]

I was glancing through ***boat the other day. The latest issue shows big a$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ boats. One had the 700 Merc engines. The upgrade price for those engines was like $160,000. WTF makes them so expensive. thats crazy.

[gn7]

now you know why more and more boat manuf. are building in house, like HTM and MAGIC, or useing builders like phaff and teague. If some else ever comes out with a decent drive merc will be back to just outboards. And this also explains why they aren't really fighting smog laws on new boats, who else is big enuff to develop and certify engines for new boats if the rules get really tuff, (i.e. catalitic converters etc.) Laws like that could hurt small engine builders big time. Also don't forget that MERCRUISER, and MERCURY RACING are two completely differant companies, and merc racing is the one in la la land with there prices

[DMOORE]

As long as people are paying those prices, they will just keep going up. Seems nuts to me to.
Darrell.

[BDMar]

I was glancing through ***boat the other day. The latest issue shows big a$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ boats. One had the 700 Merc engines. The upgrade price for those engines was like $160,000. WTF makes them so expensive. thats crazy.
I agree big $$$$$$$. Just don't forget that an upgrade from 496's to 700's also includes transmissions, more expensive transom assemblies, waaaaay more expensive drives, mandatory full hydraulic steering, expensive tail pipes, more time to rig, etc.........

[cfm]

Yup, those big $$$ engines usually include the big $$$ transom assemblies and huge $$$ drives.
Price out a #6 drive by itself and you'll start to understand. Watch out - it's painful. LOL.

[Rob Freeman]

at those prices i can buy 3 to 5 engines and have a great relationship with a engine builder , besides there warrentee isnt any better that my engine builder that i use , crazy people pay for theese engines i surely wont id rather buy a blown up boat motor in a boat for way less i can get a 598 marine engine with one year warrenty for 10000 built by a shop in nc that builds for some of the nascar , and busch cars , also a reseach and developement for nascar been in buisness for 30 years strong ive got one from them and its pretty darn strong alluminum heads , forged everthing , best deal ive found by far cant even buy a 502 from merc for this price , and myne is all new , with a warrenty , dyno proven results , the money ive saved will buy my two new xr drives one for the boat and one for spare mecury can kiss my butt !!! tand l engine developement nc

[BDMar]

at those prices i can buy 3 to 5 engines and have a great relationship with a engine builder , besides there warrentee isnt any better that my engine builder that i use , crazy people pay for theese engines i surely wont id rather buy a blown up boat motor in a boat for way less i can get a 598 marine engine with one year warrenty for 10000 built by a shop in nc that builds for some of the nascar , and busch cars , also a reseach and developement for nascar been in buisness for 30 years strong ive got one from them and its pretty darn strong alluminum heads , forged everthing , best deal ive found by far cant even buy a 502 from merc for this price , and myne is all new , with a warrenty , dyno proven results , the money ive saved will buy my two new xr drives one for the boat and one for spare mecury can kiss my butt !!! tand l engine developement nc
Apples to Oranges..... You absolutely cannot buy a "READY TO RUN" completely marinized, with CMI headers, marine engine for $10,000.00. :rolleyes: Then add a supercharger with fuel injection, a #6 transom assy, NXT or #6 drive.....
Lets build a 598 with the best parts..... Lunati crank $2000.00, Dart heads ready to run that will support 598 CI $3000.00, Dart Block $2000.00, Oliver rods $900.00, JE pistons $750.00, oil pan assy $600.00, We are at $9250.00 and you still need oil pump, camshaft, lifters, push rods, rockers, valve covers, intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, ignition, flywheel, head bolts, harmonic balancer, plug wires, spark plugs, starter, assembly labor, etc. etc......
What do you get for $10,000.00???

[Rob Freeman]

Here is my dyno sheet.
700 horse for 10 grand

[Rob Freeman]

the way i see it as soon as you say marine everthing doubles , triples , as much as they can screw you for . when they are pretty much the same , minus some clearence issues , well for 70 grand you can get a merc 700 not!!

[BDMar]

Your invoice doesn't show us anything about what parts were used in building the engine. I am sure you are happy and that is all that counts.
My point is that you are stating facts about a product that you know very little about. You can buy a double wide trailer for $25,000.00, but you can't compare it to a 4 bedroom home on 2 acres. Two completely different products.
One is a base engine with a carburetor and a Pertronix distributor. The other is a highly sophisticated, fuel injected, supercharged, electronically controlled boost system, CMI Stainless headers, etc. with a transmission, transom assembly, and speedmaster drive. The drive alone is costs more than your engine and drive combined.
I am not saying that you did not get a good deal or that your engine will not do everything you need it to. I'm sure it will be great for you.
The bottom line is that an engine builder or mfg. can only give you the quality of parts that the consumer is paying for.
I'm out:D :D

[Unchained]

Well, from previous discussions about this I had to dig out a parts list I compiled from engine components right out of the Jegs and Summit catalog.
http://www.childsdale-ind-prop.com/pictures/enginepartsstudy.jpg
So that's about what the actual base engine components cost.
The list was from 2003 so the prices have increased some.
So now someone can say, "well if you just want to throw something together"
I never could understand the concept that if Joe's engine shop assembled it with a 4340 crank and Oliver rods, it would be stronger than if I assembled it with a 4340 crank and Oliver rods.
Parts is parts.

[Rob Freeman]

Your invoice doesn't show us anything about what parts were used in building the engine. I am sure you are happy and that is all that counts.
My point is that you are stating facts about a product that you know very little about. You can buy a double wide trailer for $25,000.00, but you can't compare it to a 4 bedroom home on 2 acres. Two completely different products.
One is a base engine with a carburetor and a Pertronix distributor. The other is a highly sophisticated, fuel injected, supercharged, electronically controlled boost system, CMI Stainless headers, etc. with a transmission, transom assembly, and speedmaster drive. The drive alone is costs more than your engine and drive combined.
I am not saying that you did not get a good deal or that your engine will not do everything you need it to. I'm sure it will be great for you.
The bottom line is that an engine builder or mfg. can only give you the quality of parts that the consumer is paying for.
I'm out:D :D
as you can see in the pic it has a msd ignition also who needs a blower to make 700 hs and who are yyou to tell me what i know i know more than you think! as yyou can see i also run complete cmi exaust i really dont care cause i aint the only one that thinks mercury is nuts , and a huge engine shop that buys in bulk doesnt pay nearly as much as joe blo wich in turn can be transmitted to the buyer not everyone has to make 15000 a engine just the fools that are willing to pay for it !

[Stingray69]

I would just like to see 'sheet 2', please. :)

[BDMar]

as you can see in the pic it has a msd ignition also who needs a blower to make 700 hs and who are yyou to tell me what i know i know more than you think! as yyou can see i also run complete cmi exaust i really dont care cause i aint the only one that thinks mercury is nuts , and a huge engine shop that buys in bulk doesnt pay nearly as much as joe blo wich in turn can be transmitted to the buyer not everyone has to make 15000 a engine just the fools that are willing to pay for it !
First of all I was not trying to insult your knowledge I appologize if I did.
When I said "you are stating facts about a product that you know very little about" I was referring only to the Merc 700 SCI package. If you were familiar with that package you would understand that the carbureted base engine you purchased is not a "complete package", or even a complete engine, therefore you cannot price compare it to a supercharged, EFI, engine, trans, transom assy, drive, complete package. Second, I mentioned a Pertronix distributor because that is what your invoice shows. The upgrade to a compplete MSD ignition adds to the cost of your engine. Now you are saying, without taking a breath :D that your engine is the one in your avatar. You absolutely did not spend the $10,000.00 you claim dress and finish that engine ready to run. Period. your invoice says $10,564.00, now add the MSD ignition, CMI headers, bellhousing, starter, alternator, Merc compatible wire loom, audio warning senders, temp senders, psi sendors, sea water pump, pulleys, engine mounts, engine coupler, etc. Now how much do you have in putting that engine in your boat? And at this point you still need to add in all the drivetrain package, not a Bravo, an NXT package (to price compare to the 700 SCI)
Now add a more expensive crankshaft, rods and pistons, inconel valves, re-circ water pump, complete thermostat controlled cooling system, oil & power steering coolers, thermostat controlled oil cooling system, cupronickel inner cooler, Lysholm super charger, sequential fire electronic fuel injection including EFI fuel pump, regulator, filter, etc., a transmission, NXT drive, #6 transom assembly, trim pump and lines, etc. etc. etc.
No, you dont need a blower to make 700 HP, but you are the one comparing your engine pricing to one that has one.
My point of entering into this thread is to help anyone reading this thread to understand there is alot more to pricing an upgrade than just an engine. All upgrades are based on a 496 Mag/Bravo One. Upgrade to a 525 and you also upgrade to an XR drive. Upgrade to a 700 SCI and you also get all the stuff I previously mentioned. Destroy a Merc engine while it is under warranty and they give you a new one and pay a certified shop to replace it for you.
Do I think they are too expensive... yes I do. We build more power for less money all the time for our customers.
Again, I am not insulting you or downgrading your engine. I am simply showing you the difference in your comparisons.:)
http://mercuryracing.com/_media/images/products/hp700sci/large_hp700sci.jpg

[Bow Tie Omega]

as you can see in the pic it has a msd ignition also who needs a blower to make 700 hs and who are yyou to tell me what i know i know more than you think! as yyou can see i also run complete cmi exaust i really dont care cause i aint the only one that thinks mercury is nuts , and a huge engine shop that buys in bulk doesnt pay nearly as much as joe blo wich in turn can be transmitted to the buyer not everyone has to make 15000 a engine just the fools that are willing to pay for it !
First of all, let me start by saying that this is a good thread. Without trying to be a smart ass, Rob Freeman, how many hours are you getting out of a motor? If you are getting legit hours out of a motor, you are getting a killer deal. WIth that being said, the nice thing about bolt ons is that you can take them off of one motor and put them on another, like a MSD Unit, or exhaust, etc. I am sorry, but the price for the Merc 700 is absolutely ridiculous. But if your motor is getting 100 hours out of it and the Merc is getting 1000 hours, well then, you can tell alot. And the nice thing about having a volume performance engine builder do your motor, they are not going to pay retail like the home engine builder is. They will get discounts for purchasing in bulk. That in turn will help with costs for parts as well. My brother just had his motor built by Dave at DNE and while it was pricey, I am amazed at how much bang he got for his buck in the end, 800 + reliable horsepower for a VERY Reasonable Price. If he was to build that motor himself, it woud have been as much as he paid to have it done out the door IMO. Point is respectively, it may be apples to oranges, but then again, It may be washington apples vs. california apples.

[Rob Freeman]

id like to see a merc engine especially sc engine get 1ooo hrs hell ive been told to have the top end done at 200 iv yet to here of any of theese 80000 going 1000 hrs id be reluctant to keep 500 hr hp 500 but thats how i feel , i ve got 32000 complete but all once rigged can go on next engine so im expecting and is tand l to see the engine back for freshening every 200 hrs as he knows this too . ill have to wait and see , what i do know is ive got 700 hp long block for 10500 ill post the build sheet to compare theese apples were hering about heads are dart pro one full port and pollish dart single plane the same isky tool room springs isky lifters , crane cam , ill post theese sheets just for shit and giggles great day to all this price also includes new hp gimble 3500 ive listed all this stuff over on boat freaks under wette vettes 598 thread thanks

[Beer-30]

One other detail that makes this 700 hp blown to 700 hp NA apples to oranges is the compensation.
The ECM and bypass on the blower allow the engine to make a constant 700 hp, regardless (well except at extremes) of altitude or density altitude (hot day). NA motors may produce 700 at sea level, but would drop with alt or DA.
However, if the NA motor was built at 2 or 3000 feet, and made 700 at that level, then it would do more near sea level.

[Racer277]

Is it $32000 now, for everything but the drive and trans?
I'm just trying to be clear.
id like to see a merc engine especially sc engine get 1ooo hrs hell ive been told to have the top end done at 200 iv yet to here of any of theese 80000 going 1000 hrs id be reluctant to keep 500 hr hp 500 but thats how i feel , i ve got 32000 complete but all once rigged can go on next engine so im expecting and is tand l to see the engine back for freshening every 200 hrs as he knows this too . ill have to wait and see , what i do know is ive got 700 hp long block for 10500 ill post the build sheet to compare theese apples were hering about heads are dart pro one full port and pollish dart single plane the same isky tool room springs isky lifters , crane cam , ill post theese sheets just for shit and giggles great day to all

[Rob Freeman]

cmi ehaust , tails , ignition , fully dressed as you see it in my avitar , boostpower 13 pd flywheel , new hp coupler , kpm single stage raw water pump with stainer , al top af tjhe line teague stuff , duel fuel pumps electric and mechanical, if you look at teagues engine on there website i bought there complete engine dress kit , witch cost 4500 comletrete nbew evedrything , pipes and tails 5200 , yea 32000 complete all new top of the line teague iwitch all will go on next engines

[gn7]

first day with a new key board?

[Rob Freeman]

I would just like to see 'sheet 2', please. :)
YOU HAVE3 TO CLICK ON THE AROW BOX TO ENLARGE IT SIR

[Rob Freeman]

first day with a new key board?
NEVER SAID I WAS GOOD AT TYPING SORRY , TRADESMAN , BETTER WITH MY HANDS !

[Rob Freeman]

here are the apples

[Rob Freeman]

more

[Rob Freeman]

And finally the photo
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Tinafreeman/P1010188-1.jpg

[Taylorman]

What kind of headers.

[Rob Freeman]

Build quote

[Rob Freeman]

What kind of headers.
CMI Headers, sport tubes.
TandL upgraded me to Pro 1's instead of the Iron because porting was to time consuming on Iron. See build sheet.

[Rob Freeman]

one last thought about theese engines ,, i calculated at 80000 per pakage and took an consevative 500 hr run time it costs you 160 dollars per hour per pakage thats alot of coin for 700 hp , ill never be able to afford theese pakages thanks sorry for all the posts happy boating guys got to go to work !

[AzMandella]

NEVER SAID I WAS GOOD AT TYPING SORRY , TRADESMAN , BETTER WITH MY HANDS !
Still makes it hard to take anybody seriously when they can't spell or make much sense in their posts.By the way if your better with your hands,what do you type with?

[Rob Freeman]

[QUOTE=AzMandella;2416906]Still makes it hard to take anybody seriously when they can't spell or make much sense in their posts.By the way if your better with your hands,what do you type with?[/Q tuff guy huh , want to rip on me do you ? one should be careful who he rips on , its a small world !

[Rob Freeman]

just read some of youre other posts . seems you like to give it out do you! i like smart asses like you , bartlett huh , just so you know , tuff guys dont have belittle people just shows how ignorant you really are be carefull i dont like to be screwed with !!!

[Bow Tie Omega]

id like to see a merc engine especially sc engine get 1ooo hrs hell ive been told to have the top end done at 200 iv yet to here of any of theese 80000 going 1000 hrs id be reluctant to keep 500 hr hp 500 but thats how i feel , i ve got 32000 complete but all once rigged can go on next engine so im expecting and is tand l to see the engine back for freshening every 200 hrs as he knows this too . ill have to wait and see , what i do know is ive got 700 hp long block for 10500 ill post the build sheet to compare theese apples were hering about heads are dart pro one full port and pollish dart single plane the same isky tool room springs isky lifters , crane cam , ill post theese sheets just for shit and giggles great day to all this price also includes new hp gimble 3500 ive listed all this stuff over on boat freaks under wette vettes 598 thread thanks
Dude, I was not being literal when I said 1000 hours. I was backing you up for a good part of my quote. Dont make this get ugly, this is a very legit thread as far as Hot Boaters are concerned. I am suprised that there are not more posting. I was just trying to bring up some valid points about how much bang a person could get for their buck. I was not hammering anyone, just trying to add to the thread in a productive manner. Personally, I think going the route you did is the more economical way to go about things. Buth then again, I am just a Jet Dork.

[Stingray69]

Perhaps it would help if I showed a quote I was given back in early '05, for a high performance marine engine by a well respected marine engine builder. This was sent to me by Dave Weseldyk of Wesco Racing Engines in MI. I have not seen one bad comment about him or his work, on ANY hot boat site, and I hang out on all of them. I would bet that things have changed a little, so don't go to him and try to hold these prices against him, two years after the fact. These prices are NOT at all out of line or excessive at all.
I chose not to use him, and sometimes I kick myself, and sometimes I'm glad I did it like I did, but the point I want to make is that Quality parts AND Quality craftsmanship are gonna cost you, and this is in a niche market where you SELDOM get what you pay for; just the nature of Marine Hi-Performance, and there's a lotta stories out there that explain what I'm trying to point out.
Now what is someone supposed to think when they hear a story of how they got the same thing at 60% of the cost ?.... it's gonna sound fishy....hope it all works out for you and I hope that you don't discover disappointment as time goes on, about how it was that your price was substantially lower. :)

[Rob Freeman]

[QUOTE=Bow Tie Omega;2417322]Dude, I was not being literal when I said 1000 hours. I was backing you up for a good part of my quote. Dont make this get ugly, this is a very legit thread as far as Hot Boaters are concerned. I am suprised that there are not more posting. I was just trying to bring up some valid points about how much bang a person could get for their buck. I was not hammering anyone, just trying to add to the thread in a productive manner. Personally, I think going the route you did is the more economical way to go about things. Buth then again, I am just a Jet Dork.[/QUOTEIM COOL WITH YOURE POST , I WAS SIMPLY ADDING ON TO YOURE THOUGHTS NO HARM INTENDED , I FELT AS YOU WERE SOMEWHAT AGREEI NG WITH ME , SORRY FOR THE MISCOMMUNICATION , JUST SICK IN TIRED OF PEOPLE ALWAYS BELITTLING PEOPLE TO GET SOME SELF SATISFACTION , NOT MY FORTAY I WONT JUDGE ANYONE FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE AS LONG AS THERE NOT CALLING NAMES AND ACTING LIKE A KINDERGARNER , ECT MY SPELLING SKILS ARE POOR BEEN THAT WAY MY WHOLE LIFE , COMPUTER NEW TO ME TRING MY BEST , LETS GET BACK TO THE THREAD , AND KEEP THE CHILDISH BULL SHIT TO OURSELVES I WILL . I DONT HAVE TIME TO RIDICULE ONE FOR SUCH PETTY THING AS SPELLING , ECT . SORRY FOR THE ANGER , IM USUALLY A VERRY NICE PERSON THAT WILL DO ANYTHING TO HELP SOMEONE . BUT REFUSE TO BE TREATED ANY LESS THAN ONE WANTS TO0 BE TREATED ! FAIR ENOUGH ?

[AzMandella]

[QUOTE=AzMandella;2416906]Still makes it hard to take anybody seriously when they can't spell or make much sense in their posts.By the way if your better with your hands,what do you type with?[/Q tuff guy huh , want to rip on me do you ? one should be careful who he rips on , its a small world !
Not trying to be a tuff guy.But if you reread your post #16,as I had to read it over and over and some of it still makes nosense to me.:confused:

[Rob Freeman]

[QUOTE=Rob Freeman;2417121]
Not trying to be a tuff guy.But if you reread your post #16,as I had to read it over and over and some of it still makes nosense to me.:confused:
BEING A PRICK ALL THERE IS TO THAT POST , BUT COOL DUDE ARNT WE !!

[Bow Tie Omega]

Enough with the drama:sleeping: Back to topic......So how many hours have your gotten out of a motor. I am really curious. With comparable outdrives and all, If your set up is legit and ends up only being $10,000 less, it is still $10,000. THe person who said that a NA motor loose HP at altitude, you are talking what, 10-20 hp, you are not talking 200 hp. I would consider myself hitting the jackpot saving 10's of thousands of dollars with a comparable outdrive and with a normally aspirated motor that could get more overall running hours and comparable HP. You guys can compare apples to oranges all you want, but with the items I listed above, I think it is green backs that are compared in the end.

[AzMandella]

[QUOTE=AzMandella;2418904]
BEING A PRICK ALL THERE IS TO THAT POST , BUT COOL DUDE ARNT WE !!
Now who's calling people names and acting like a kindergartener?:rolleyes: I never called you a single name.But that's fine you keep getting mad at yourself for writing like a kindergartener.I guess sometimes the truth hurts.:idea:

[AzMandella]

So to get back on topic I too think that is way to much to pay for 700 hp.I re-used my block,pan,manifold,and roller rockers and spent $7500.00 to make 650+ hp.Using trick flow heads Crower roller cam,H-beam rods,JE pistons,Clevite H series bearings,2 Quick Fuel carbs and full MSD ignition.and I'm twisting it 6800 rpm's all the time.