So I'm reading the news paper....( Hey firemen/EMT)

[YeLLowBoaT]

And I can across a nice artical on the front page... (http://www.sacbee.com/797/story/128246.html)
So Now I will ask all you firemen/EMTs... WTF?
:mad:

[Jbb]

:jawdrop:

[4DAY4PLAY]

Im a Fireman/Paramedic, and also an EMT instructor. We do backgrounds on all of our EMT students which include DOJ screening, fingerprints etc. There are hundreds of thousands of EMT & Paramedics in Cali and there will be a few people that sneak by with a bad records. Unfortunantly when there are as teachers, cops, fireman etc in Cali, they wont all be clean.

[78CoLe]

good ol cali thank god for swartzinager

[Flyinbowtie]

Yellowboat;
I did background investigations for our department (L.E.) for years, and I share your frustration.
At least, in L.E., potential candidates and, "journeymen" California cops are trained and held to the same standard to get a "license" to be a cop. That license, issued by the California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, is earned after the educational requirements are met, and then that probationary officer has certified to have been working for a Cal. L.E. Agency for 1 year.
I think the EMS folks ought to be under some sort of state deal like POST, and they are to some extent, but the regional medical groups like the Sac-Sierra outfit are quite territorial and sadly, it is going to take stuff like this to make improvements happen.
It would be a helluva lot more efficent way to do business, and the entire system would improve, imho.
In any event, the first public safety agency that hires somebody in a role like this carries a huge burden to do a in-depth and no-stone-unturned background on candidates, and the weeding-out process continues with Psch. testing, etc. I don't know any outfit that takes this lightly, but being human, mistakes can be made, and sometimes a turd slips through the cracks, no matter how hard we try.
Better, more open communication between agencies when a "journeyman" employee is seeking to transfer to another shop would help alot.
Sadly, if employer A gets a call from a background investigator working for employer B, who is looking into a loser employee at A because the employee has appplied for a position, Employer A is always tempted to polish the turd up in hopes that he will leave and become some other outfits problem.
Background investigators who are good at their work and dedicated to weeding out the turds have a huge impact on the quality of the people who get into the field.

[8Dayz]

Most ambulance co. are private, not civil service. Due to cost of proper background checks they let turds slip by. These are not high paying jobs, almost minimum wage for emt's and paramedics. (Not complaining, just stating the facts.) These are not public safety people who go through a rigorous battery of tests to earn the job. Mostly it is like going to McDonald's and filling out an application and passing a drug screen and dmv.
I agree that due to numbers a few less than desirable people slip into the public safety professions, IE. police/fire-municipal agencies.
To come out and start a thread FIREMEN/EMT WTF! is jumping the gun a Little. If these people worked for any public agency the dept they worked for would be stated and drug through the mud. AMR is not a Fire Dept. IT IS A CORPORATION. That does not mean that all the folks in the private ambulances are bad, just that there is the possibility to have a few more with questionable backgrounds than the public employee side of things. For the most part good people just trying to live, doing what they like for a living.
I am a FF/PM. If anyone on my dept pulled a stunt like this they would be gone! PERIOD. People have been fired for getting a DUI, even after probation. We as public safety/first responders are held to higher standard than most other professions. When someone screws up and the police get involved and the person works for a public agency it gets bad press for the whole profession. (Doctors,nurses,teachers,police,fire.)
I agree these turds should not be allowed to serve the public. It is an honor to serve and protect our communities, something that is very dear to me. I treat every patient i work,as if it was my family member or close friend, that is what I am paid to do and what I choose to do for a living.
So before you go bashing my brothers/sisters by starting a thread with a title like that you should read the article again. I fail to see how it is the local fire Dept's failing at this. The problem is with the state of California EMS. So how about "hey Arnold WTF"
Sorry for the rant, it had been along winter.:(

[Throttle]

YB, you always look to start somethin up with us firemen, let it go... there are shitty shady peeps everywhere I guess... I do not agree with it, however I do not agree with what the paper says all the time either...
btw, was that you I helped out of your car tonite upside down in the middle of hwy 95?

[haulina29]

The fire dept. for years put the public at risk by not hiring the best ......... so why would this suprise anybody

[8Dayz]

What do you mean the best for years and so surprise? What are you referring to? Again the article is not about the fire dept's. Have you personally had bad service from a fire agency? It is possible, I just hope no one would thats all.

[YeLLowBoaT]

To come out and start a thread FIREMEN/EMT WTF! is jumping the gun a Little. If these people worked for any public agency the dept they worked for would be stated and drug through the mud. AMR is not a Fire Dept. IT IS A CORPORATION. .:(
Actaully the artical I posted was cut short on line. In the bee itself it went on to add how EMTS were going from cheif to cheif trying to get reinstated and how some where.
there was also this
That kept former Orange County EMT-firefighter Raymond Carl Smith's employer in the dark about his 1985 conviction for child molestation. Smith renewed his credentials with the state fire marshal for nearly two decades until he was rearrested on suspicion of molesting two girls in 2004. He was immediately assigned to a desk job before retiring with a full pension, said Battalion Chief Ed Fleming.
Fleming said his department learned Smith was a registered sex offender from the San Bernardino County sheriff - and then only because the sheriff routinely notifies other public agencies when their workers are arrested
I'm sorry, but when the FIREMARSHAL reinstates some one and another fire district hirers him and only finds out from a diffrenet county sheriff that he molested a kid, there is something wrong. I also can't see how he was aloud to retire with full pension. How does that work? you should not be alloud to retire ( with or with out pension) he should be fired. He should not have even been asigned the desk job. he should have been fired on the spot, union or no.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Yet, as The Bee reported last month, EMSA has its own problems. Its misconduct investigations have often been painfully slow, it faces enforcement and licensing staff shortages and recently lost its chief investigator and general counsel.
In 2006, an EMSA-sponsored bill was introduced in the Legislature to create a statewide licensing and discipline system for EMTs. The proposal came seven years after a federal National Highway Traffic Safety Administration study, which called on California to create a single system.
Senate Bill 1811 was fiercely opposed by firefighter unions, which claimed that firefighter EMTs should be disciplined only by their fire departments.
The firefighters successfully pushed a rival bill to take away the powers of county agencies to discipline firefighter EMTs.
This also pisses me off...

[haulina29]

8Dayz check your pms, and my point was the FD hasnt always hired the best so why should you be suprised that this goes on

[C-2]

The reality is, most background investigations are a joke. There are too may restrictions in place, at both the state and Federal level (FCRA/EEOC/CCRA). For example, in Cali but also governed by FCRA on a nationwide basis – you can’t report criminal convictions older than seven years (unless it’s for a governmental agency and specifically mandated).
If you have a common name, there is a good chance an investigation won’t even be performed since it’s not practical, or cost-effective to do an investigation. They’ll say an investigation was done – but it wasn’t. Even California Department of Justice relies in large part, on information submitted by applicants. They too also face the common name problem.
And the more we squawk about privacy rights, identity theft concerns and the use of social security numbers – the worse it will become. It’s those concerns which have prompted tougher laws which stir up unintended consequences that cripple the ability to do a background investigation.
I have a pending professional license being held up by DOJ right now. When I was 19 years old I received a DUI. Since that time I have only received 1 traffic ticket. However, in applying for the license and like a dumbass, I identified the DUI. Now DOJ can’t find it, and will not issue a clearance until they do. It’s been almost six months now, and I’m still waiting.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Also you can't transfer back ground check info between agencys...
Up until 2 years ago I use to coach a JR wrestling team and was a CIF ref. Every year I had to get 2 back ground checks done.( life scan, tb test, yadda yadda. basicly the same to work at a school) I also worked with "smart kids" while I was in school. At one point I had to have 5 background checks in less then 2 weeks. Now if they were alloud to transfer that info it would have been alot ezer.

[8Dayz]

H29 Back at you brother.

[8Dayz]

YB not that I want any fruit loops helping anyone I know or love but geez man. You must be one perfect person. Is it tough to be so good? Lets attack your profession/public image. I bet everyone in your line of work are saints! what ever it is that you do. what do you do for your neighbors/community Mr. perfect.:idea:

[C-2]

Up until 2 years ago I use to coach a JR wrestling team and was a CIF ref. Every year I had to get 2 back ground checks done.( life scan, tb test, yadda yadda. basicly the same to work at a school) I also worked with "smart kids" while I was in school. At one point I had to have 5 background checks in less then 2 weeks. Now if they were alloud to transfer that info it would have been alot ezer.
That sounds like a pain in the arse, but makes me feel a whole lot better knowing they are doing checks for coaching jobs.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Yeah still at around $150 a pop its ( some of which I paid, some of which others did) its not exactly cheap. in the case of the jr team, the club paid for it... $150 will go along way to pay for INS, t shits and etc.( parents always pay for the tournys
Its so strick, I can not even go to the local HS( which I wrestled for and where the club was assocaited with) and go "beat up on the HS guys" :D I mean even if All I do is go in and help the guys get ready for Sections and the state meet( its good to work out with a diffrent partner... more so if they are alot better then you are) Does not matter that I was checked out for more then 5 years to go help out with the HS pratice.

[YeLLowBoaT]

YB not that I want any fruit loops helping anyone I know or love but geez man. You must be one perfect person. Is it tough to be so good? Lets attack your profession/public image. I bet everyone in your line of work are saints! what ever it is that you do. what do you do for your neighbors/community Mr. perfect.:idea:
Well what about 10 years of coaching a jr team, every year donating over $1000( intotal) to diffrent JR and HS wrestling teams. 3 days a year I Ref, 3 diffrent tournys for FREE. 4 years in working with smart kids. last year I had 131 hours donated to habitat for humanity and a local church( which I am not a member they had a arson attack) doing construction/ remodel work.
So what have you donated to the local community?
I never said I work in a trade that is full of saints. I try VERY, VERY hard to break the Image that GCs have. There is a diffrence here, when you have some one not do what they are supose to you can fire them, you can't do that with public servants... they have to go thru reviews and other red tape so the unions don't piss and moan... now tell me if you found out some one underneath you was a child molster, could you have them cut a check right then and there? Would the union back you firing them on the spot like that?
Every one has thier faults, If you would like to check in my back ground go ahead. The only thing you will find is a couple parking tickets.
I just have a real prob with public survents not doing thier job. Actaully, I have a real prob with any one not doing thier job.
Fire marshal staff members simply ask EMT applicants to disclose any convictions that might disqualify them, said spokesman Michael Jarvis. The state never double-checks and no law requires them to, Jarvis added
A 2005 EMSA survey of 32 county and regional agencies found that 14 didn't conduct Department of Justice background checks on EMT applicants; 31 didn't do FBI checks
I don't know about you, but I would call that not doing your job.

[BRSTQUEST]

Anthony Elenteny of Oakland was certified by Alameda County after completing his training and internships. Elenteny's past, which he disclosed to the county, included arrests for methamphetamine possession, a concealed firearm and a 10-year-old felony conviction and prison time for helping detonate an explosive device in an inhabited motor home.
Elenteny, who is now a contractor,:sqeyes: complained in an interview that he had put a decade between himself and his drug world past. The state "really jerked me around," he said.
I guess we all should have some sort of hiring screening going on. Just as someone might not want a "bad seed" driving an ambulance, I do not want one building stuff...
Let the fireman beef go and worry about more important stuff, like when is it going to warm up so we all can go on the water!!!!

[Debbolas]

Just a thought............
We've had a rash of child molestation and murder in one of our local school districts. I can't understand it, but Scream had an interesting point. He said that people trust Teachers too much.
I think we put a huge amount of trust into our emergency care workers.
But think about it.............can YOU do that job? Not just the running into the burning building, but the part where you have to walk into a dirty, filthy bug infested house and give someone there care? I couldn't do it. :jawdrop: I use to go into houses like that to teach kids, I had the luxury of saying, "no more - meet me at the library" But Fireman and EMT's HAVE to run into that house and care for that person. They don't get a choice.
YB can I complain to you about all the construction workers that show up to my house late?:idea: (or just don't show)

[Throttle]

Just a thought............
YB can I complain to you about all the construction workers that show up to my house late?:idea: (or just don't show)
He would only listen to the complaint if they were scabs, he does not like unions / prevailing wages...
YB, I forgot to mention in my earlier post... not like it matters, you ignored it anyway... I was off duty helpin the victims of that accident, some of us are just good peeps and we do what comes natural, always helpin somebody... really now I am glad it wasn't you. I would not like to see anyone I know of in that situation (been there, it sucks).

[little rowe boat]

YB. showed his feelings about Fire dept/ Firefighters during the hazing threads. Don't be surprised that he goes and finds things that he feels shows Firefighters and Fire departments in a negative way.

[8Dayz]

Sir I do not wish to check your background. I am happy to see someone work with the youth of there community, that is great, we need more people like that. I did not intend this to be a who volunteers more time contest! I just was making a point that most people do very Little except bash others, my apology.
You sir are relying to much on a reporter who has his agencies clouded. Your local fire marshal has nothing to do with your emt or emt-paramedic license. It is through your local county ems agency, the same people the fire dept and private ambulance folks must answer to. They are if you will the BOSS.
let me spell it out for you.
EMT
1.go to class through a JC or private instructor
2 meet the requirements and pass
3 go to county ems after passing the NATIONAL requirements
4 pay the money for live scan- the stuff you know about all to much
5 get a job on a PRIVATE ambulance
Paramedic
1 all the above just way more intense
NO where is or has a fire marshal had anything to do with mine or any other medic or emt's license. For hate record I am talking about the areas I have worked. Ventura CO. Santa Barbara CO. and Kern CO.
The Fire Marshal normally takes care of the UBC...etc and fire prevention stuff, not ems.
I to do not like incompetent people it blows. But for you to come on here constantly and bash public servants/fire pisses me off. Let's not get started on all the horror stories of GC's.. going bk, not finishing, etc... they are ranked along used car salesman. See when someone bashes you that doesn't even know you it sucks. I wonder what other prejudices you have.
Most people never have contact with or need to call 911, but when they do it is because what they are experiencing is an emergency to them. Maybe not a big one for us but it is huge for them. It may be the only time in there life that they call. You know what for the most part they are glad we came and are thankfull. I hope you never need us.
I for one need GC's, I am all thumbs. I respect your skills and training. Just another beauty of the fire house is that all the honest GC's I need sit at the dinner table along side me.
Is it time to water ski yet? My dirt bike wants a rest.:D

[Throttle]

YB. showed his feelings about Fire dept/ Firefighters during the hazing threads. Don't be surprised that he goes and finds things that he feels shows Firefighters and Fire departments in a negative way.
not suprised at all... thats why I said earlier "GET OVER IT!"... his little sister prolly took his fire truck away from him when he little...

[little rowe boat]

not suprised at all... thats why I said earlier "GET OVER IT!"... his little sister prolly took his fire truck away from him when he little...
:D

[Boatcop]

A week ago my mother-in-law was rushed to the hospital with chest pain. The only ones in her house were firefighters and ambulance EMTs/Paramedics. (6 or 7 total people)
When we got there, about 4 hours later, all of her medication was on the kitchen counter, as it should be, since they needed to know what she was taking. Trouble was, the bottles that held the "good" drugs (darvocet, sleeping pills, etc) were empty, although only about 1/3 through the dosage cycle.
She filed a complaint with the Fire Dept & Ambulance Co. today, and was told it happens all the time, but they can't prove who's doing it.
(BTW, She's OK)

[little rowe boat]

A week ago my mother-in-law was rushed to the hospital with chest pain. The only ones in her house were firefighters and ambulance EMTs/Paramedics. (6 or 7 total people)
When we got there, about 4 hours later, all of her medication was on the kitchen counter, as it should be, since they needed to know what she was taking. Trouble was, the bottles that held the "good" drugs (darvocet, sleeping pills, etc) were empty, although only about 1/3 through the dosage cycle.
She filed a complaint with the Fire Dept & Ambulance Co. today, and was told it happens all the time, but they can't prove who's doing it.
(BTW, She's OK)
I am sorry to hear that. I am happy to hear that your mother is feeling better and I am glad she filed a complaint. Hopefully they will get to the bottom of it. It's ashame a few bad apples give the rest of us a bad name.
If they were cops, that sort of thing wouldn't happen. Right?

[Family4Day]

I just kept reading on and on and the stories get worse. We are just human and sometimes the bad apples really make all the good guys look bad as well. Being a fireman and a paramedic, you are placed into situtaions that you could take advantage of a person either physically or with their possessions. Is there really a need to take all the clothes off an 18 year old girl to check for injuries? If yes, then you better document why and what treatments were needed. But there is always some dipshit that would not want to take all the clothes off a 88 year old woman, but give him some cute girl and he is right there and ready to work. Those guys should be severly disciplined. We are professionally trained and that training is what makes us ready to handle many types of emrgencies. The faking of certifications is not only hazardous to the public and their health, but also to our reputation as professionals. Background checks have been done in our department for years, but there is always someone that slips thru. Is there a better way to screen these guys?If there is please let me know. The last tragic event in our agency resulted in a murder/suicide. Maybe a better background check or physc test years ago would not have put us thru the event and not left 3 kids orphaned.
Boatcop-if your mother gets no answers, call the city manager and the fire chief. Like I said, we are only human and maybe the person or persons that took the pills could get some help before it gets worse.
Sorry for the long rant guys, but I worked hard for my job and take pride in my job. Idiots that would be better doing something else, might want to see if taco bell is hiring, lot less opportunity to screw up a life! Just remeber to put extra hot sauce in the bag!
Todd

[bruddah]

im sorry to hear that boatcop its people like that, that give us a bad name and cause people to not have the trust they should have for someone caring for their life when they are in need.... definately disgraceful! i wasnt goin to comment in this but had to after reading boatcops post!:o :mad: