Hi-Tech Plumbing

[Jetaholic]

Hey guys...got my plumbing inlet built today. I'll be installing the pump into the boat later on today.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25846&stc=1&d=1173297668
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25849&stc=1&d=1173297811
The pump water shutoff is for when I'm running the boat on the trailer so I'm not wasting water just letting some of it dump out of the pump, and all of it will go to the motor from the garden hose inlet.
The garden hose shutoff is cool cause then I don't have to worry about forgetting to plug it off when I'm done...just shut the valve off.
The first inlet pipe is 3/8...it steps up to 1/2" before it goes into the pump water shutoff valve. At the end of the pressure regulator T there will be a 1/2" fitting for 1/2" hose to run to the incoming water T that feeds the engine. At the outlets of that T there will be 1/2"-3/8" barbed fittings and I'll run two 3/8" hoses into the engine.

[sanger rat]

Your not going to just let that hang off the pump are you?

[Taylorman]

I'd shorten up those pipe nipples and use close nipples.

[Jetaholic]

Your not going to just let that hang off the pump are you?
What I'm thinking is that it will come out over the motor mount rail and I'll probably fabricate a support bracket that will be bolted to the rail to add support.
BTW I notice you're from Bay City MI. My buddy's old band Jedi Mind Trip used to play there at Westown Theatre...I drove up there once to see them when I lived in Detroit.

[squirt'nmyload]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25846&stc=1&d=1173297668
just a question, but why don't you just use the pump shut off valve to regulate the water...and you can keep the garden hose part on it....thats how it is in my boat......that extra valve just seems like a bit much:confused:

[sanger rat]

I closed down that place many times.:eek: Good band too.;)

[460 jus getn it]

Just a thought, why ball valves? Why not gate valves?

[Devilman]

Just a thought, why ball valves? Why not gate valves?
Bish please...... :rollside:

[Taylorman]

Just a thought, why ball valves? Why not gate valves?
Cause gate valves are for garden hoses for watering your lawn or wet t shirt contests.
Just curious why you would use a gate over a ball.

[460 jus getn it]

Bish please...... :rollside:
Cause gate valves are for garden hoses for watering your lawn or wet t shirt contests.
Just curious why you would use a gate over a ball.
Ever tried to dial your water temp in with a ball valve. They are very touchy, and in my personal experience gate valves are much more eaiser to work with. Just my .02 cents.

[Taylorman]

Didn't know that, ive never used a gate valve.

[460 jus getn it]

Didn't know that, ive never used a gate valve.A hair can mean alot with those ball valves. Dont get me wrong, im sure alot of people use them and they work fine. Just im my personal experience the temp went from 140 to 200 in a hurry and all i did was move the lever a CH

[Devilman]

Ever tried to dial your water temp in with a ball valve. They are very touchy, and in my personal experience gate valves are much more eaiser to work with. Just my .02 cents.
I recall a pretty big debate here awhile back on the subject of ball valves vs. gate valves.....
Never messed with dialing in the temp. I used ball valves cause I can get 'em free from work, the temp thing just happened to work itself out. I know the ball valves are finicky though.....

[Legal Chemistry]

Why do you want shut the water off going to the pump when you're running it on the trailer? I thought the "better" idea was to run water through the pump to keep it water lubed vs running dry. I've ran mine on the trainer with the water on, but I regulate what goes through the block (I reduce flow into the block.) By no means am I an expert, so I am missing something here?

[Jetaholic]

Why do you want shut the water off going to the pump when you're running it on the trailer? I thought the "better" idea was to run water through the pump to keep it water lubed vs running dry. I've ran mine on the trainer with the water on, but I regulate what goes through the block (I reduce flow into the block.) By no means am I an expert, so I am missing something here?
I have a Jet-A-Way so that I can put the boat in neutral when dry firing it, so this is a non-issue.
The reason for ball valves? Because I'm running a water bypass valve to regulate the water pressure without killing the amount of water going to the block. I'll also be running a thermostat kit so that will control my running temp. So the water pressure and block temp will be self regulating.
There will be a gate valve for the header water feed though.
Squirt'nmyload...not sure I follow you on how to use the pump water shut off with the garden hose thing.

[squirt'nmyload]

Squirt'nmyload...not sure I follow you on how to use the pump water shut off with the garden hose thing.
sorry....i meant u can keep the garden hose attachment and valve on it, then one other valve for the water intake.......total of 2 valves....make sense :)
but it sounds like you know what you are doing....don't mind me!!

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Just a thought, why ball valves? Why not gate valves?
Agreed,
Gate valves are far more accurate and you can make finer adjustments.

[Jetaholic]

OK OK guys...all this talk about "adjustments"...
If you have a water bypass valve to regulate the incoming water pressure and you run a thermostat kit, what other adjustments are there to make?

[Some Kind Of Monster]

OK OK guys...all this talk about "adjustments"...
If you have a water bypass valve to regulate the incoming water pressure and you run a thermostat kit, what other adjustments are there to make?
You sould be fine. It's just a good idea to use gate valves if that is the only type of regulation you have.
Ball valves = On / Off
Gate valves = Regulation

[squirt'nmyload]

OK OK guys...all this talk about "adjustments"...
If you have a water bypass valve to regulate the incoming water pressure and you run a thermostat kit, what other adjustments are there to make?
i do believe the thermostat debate has gone on before....some do some don't..........there isn't one in mine.........the only adjustment i've ever made was when the water cooled, i closed the valve a tad to bring the temp up to where it usually is in the summer:)

[squirt'nmyload]

You sould be fine. It's just a good idea to use gate valves if that is the only type of regulation you have.
Ball valves = On / Off
Gate valves = Regulation
weren't we discussing this on sunday??;)

[460 jus getn it]

OK OK guys...all this talk about "adjustments"...
If you have a water bypass valve to regulate the incoming water pressure and you run a thermostat kit, what other adjustments are there to make?I have 2 valves on my motor. 1 comming in and 1 going out. I have never ran a t-stat nor do i have a pressure relief thingy. My temp at idol is 150 and at wot 110. Not knocking what your doing, just trying to help out.

[revndave]

I have 2 valves on my motor. 1 comming in and 1 going out. I have never ran a t-stat nor do i have a pressure relief thingy. My temp at idol is 150 and at wot 110. Not knocking what your doing, just trying to help out.
I had the same system on both of my jet boats.Worked great.I dont believe in the whole regulator system.As long as you have the same going out as coming in you will have no pressure.I tested it with 50lbs of water pressure.I had(1) 1/2"coming in and (2) 3/8" coming out no pressure.I kinked 1 of the 3/8" hoses and got about 3lbs of pressure with 50lbs of inlet pressure.

[460 jus getn it]

I had the same system on both of my jet boats.Worked great.I dont believe in the whole regulator system.As long as you have the same going out as coming in you will have no pressure.I tested it with 50lbs of water pressure.I had(1) 1/2"coming in and (2) 3/8" coming out no pressure.I kinked 1 of the 3/8" hoses and got about 3lbs of pressure with 50lbs of inlet pressure.
Yeppers, i havent ever had a problem with water in the oil anything like that. Temp is fine no problems.IMO, those pressure relief valves are worthless.

[squirt'nmyload]

Yeppers, i havent ever had a problem with water in the oil anything like that. Temp is fine no problems.IMO, those pressure relief valves are worthless.
how bout oil in the water:D :D :D

[460 jus getn it]

how bout oil in the water:D :D :DSmart Ass

[squirt'nmyload]

Smart Ass
lol:)

[inwo]

How about a check valve, to keep from shocking the heads with cold water, when restarting before cool down?

[3 daytona`s]

: What I'm thinking is that it will come out over the motor mount rail and I'll probably fabricate a support bracket that will be bolted to the rail to add support.
BTW I notice you're from Bay City MI. My buddy's old band Jedi Mind Trip used to play there at Westown Theatre...I drove up there once to see them when I lived in Detroit.
I ask why you are taking probably the most simple device invented so complicated and difficult? The jet pump:idea: Good luck with project,but you are making way too much out of this.

[widowmaker]

not to be an ass here, but Actually a gate valve doesn't do a very good job of controlling water pressure or flow, neither does a ball valve.
The best one to use would actally be a "Globe Valve", they are specifically designed to control flow and pressure. A
Anybody use one of these???
"About Globe Valves
Globe valves are named for their spherical body shape. The two halves of the valve body are separated by a baffle with a disc in the center. Globe valves operate by screw action of the handwheel. Use for applications requiring throttling and frequent operation. Since the baffle restricts flow, they're not recommended where full, unobstructed flow is required.
Bonnets provide leakproof closure for the valve body. Globe valves may have a screw-in, union, or bolted bonnet. Screw-in bonnet is the simplest bonnet, offering a durable, pressure-tight seal. Union bonnet is suitable for applications requiring frequent inspection or cleaning. It also gives the body added strength. Bolted bonnet is used for larger or higher pressure applications.
Many globe valves have a class rating that corresponds to the pressure specifications of ANSI 16.34."

[widowmaker]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u109/kjelladams/c3aga27l.gif

[sanger rat]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u109/kjelladams/c3aga27l.gif
Don't want to ditch your valve but how does it hold up with sandy water?

[Jetaholic]

OK...I have no intention of being able to control water flow/volume...the pressure and temp are my main concerns. Temp will be controlled by the thermostat setup while water pressure will be controlled by the regulator valve.
The ball valve on the garden hose fitting serves an obvious purpose...it's there so I don't have to have a screw on plug to plug off the garden hose fitting while on the lake.
The ball valve at the pump is there so that when I am running it on a garden hose all the water from the hose goes through the motor instead of some of it leaking out through the pump. Since I have a Jet-A-Way I don't have to worry about scoring the impeller since the pump won't be spinning while I'm running it on the trailer.
With the regulator valve to drop the incoming water pressure way down I figured the ball valve can run wide open with no problems. Since I have the thermostat setup the incoming water will just dump overboard through the thermostat bypass when the thermo is closed so that the block can run between 160-190 degrees.
Am I wrong by thinking this?

[Some Kind Of Monster]

I am not familiar with a "globe" valve, but I guarantee that a gate valve works in this situation 100% of the time.
http://images.lowes.com/general/p/plumbMain3.jpg

[Some Kind Of Monster]

OK...I have no intention of being able to control water flow/volume...the pressure and temp are my main concerns. Temp will be controlled by the thermostat setup while water pressure will be controlled by the regulator valve.
The ball valve on the garden hose fitting serves an obvious purpose...it's there so I don't have to have a screw on plug to plug off the garden hose fitting while on the lake.
The ball valve at the pump is there so that when I am running it on a garden hose all the water from the hose goes through the motor instead of some of it leaking out through the pump. Since I have a Jet-A-Way I don't have to worry about scoring the impeller since the pump won't be spinning while I'm running it on the trailer.
With the regulator valve to drop the incoming water pressure way down I figured the ball valve can run wide open with no problems. Since I have the thermostat setup the incoming water will just dump overboard through the thermostat bypass when the thermo is closed so that the block can run between 160-190 degrees.
Am I wrong by thinking this?
You're setup should work fine. Many jetters like to employ the kiss method in their rigging. The way you chose to go isn't the easiest way, but should work fine. It looks like you are using the ball valves to shut off water entirely in order to run on the trailer etc. That's fine. I'm just saying not to use them for regulation (just FYI). I wouldn't mind keeping my water temp consistant. There is nothing wrong with either method IMO.
Oh and one more thing. I agree about putting some length of rubber hose between the pump and your rigging. If that line cracked, you would be in trouble.

[Jetaholic]

Yeah I'm actually considering using the "close" fittings rather than the sections of pipe I currently have on there.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I am not familiar with a "globe" valve, but I guarantee that a gate valve works in this situation 100% of the time.
http://images.lowes.com/general/p/plumbMain3.jpg
That is the proper valve! I have tried the ball valve and it was too damn hard to adjust:mad: Im going to get some stainless ones in a few weeks;)
396 = gate valve all the way:D

[cruser]

Let me throw another suggestion into this mess. Why not use a 3-way valve to switch between supplying the engine water from the jet or hose? Should be able to find one with big enough diameter somewhere. Works for switching between fuel tanks, why not for switching water sources?

[widowmaker]

Don't want to ditch your valve but how does it hold up with sandy water?
Dunno, I don't run one, I'd be interested to hear how it stands up to sand though. I use a ball valve, I also run a thermostat set up so I run the valve in full open position and don't worry about having to mess with it. Like ball valves, gate valves are intended to be full open or full shut. If I was trying to reduce pressure I think that the pressure bypass would be the way to go. As far as reducing flow to control engine temp, you'd be better off using a thermostat setup.
I just inspected my thermostat set up last week after six years of river usage and it still works as good as the day I bought it. So I would say sand doesn't affect it.
Like I say, use whatever you feel most comfortable, I only suggest this option which may work for some and not everyone may agree.

[Rondane]

Don't want to ditch your valve but how does it hold up with sandy water?
the same way everything in a jetpump holds up to sand....perfectly! just ask smokin. :)
oh i forgot some useful information in my post(#2 out of 175) Go with a gate valve. You really should make that assembly you have ALOT shorter anyways. Boat sell yet 396? Pretty quiet around here for such a big sale. :confused:rondane

[sanger rat]

Copy and paste from another thread. This is pretty heavy in the opinion point, but here goes.
As long as the oil has temperature, and the chamber of the head has temperature, then your goal for making the most power is to freeze the engine. Like Warren Johnson stated, "If I could get 60 degree water temp, I would."
I am sure you have seen the NHRA broadcasts where pro stockers are putting ice cubes in their radiator. They run transmission oil heaters, rear end oil heaters and engine oil heaters. They want all those oils hot without having to get excessive heat in the engine by running it too long. We have the advantage on the water. Unlimited cool water. When you are designing an engine trying to keep your water temp way down, you always want more clearance piston to block, as the block will not heat up as much, and not swell as much, but after that, freeze the thing. You can then run more timing, more compression . . .etc. without detonation. More power.
If your oil temp is staying way light, it is a real problem. Something you will need to look at with restrictors, thermostats, etc. But if you have oil temp and heat in the chambers, freeze the rest for the most power. Especially on gasoline. Alcohol likes a little more heat than gas, but that is another story.

[ruggs]

My version, mounts to the stringer and controls everything from one place...gate valves so that you can adjust and then slightly tighten the packing gland to hold the adjustment. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/DSC00755.JPG

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

the same way everything in a jetpump holds up to sand....perfectly! just ask smokin. :)
oh i forgot some useful information in my post(#2 out of 175) Go with a gate valve. You really should make that assembly you have ALOT shorter anyways. Boat sell yet 396? Pretty quiet around here for such a big sale. :confused:rondane
FYI azzclown! My Kachina is sold and has been.
I dont need to spam everyones thread with stuff that I have for sale. I actually have respect for my fellow jetters unlike you....D!CKHEAD
Sorry for the bad post jetaholic, you know how miss jane gets when he is raggin...

[NELSON#109]

hardware stores have the sweetest performance boat parts!!!! just bustin ur nuts LOL..... make sure you screw it to the stringer with galvanized lags, and plumbers tape!!!

[RCB19]

hardware stores have the sweetest performance boat parts!!!! just bustin ur nuts LOL..... make sure you screw it to the stringer with galvanized lags, and plumbers tape!!!
You beat me to it... That setup should be worth at least a tenth in the liquid Q.

[Jetaholic]

Sorry for the bad post jetaholic, you know how miss jane gets when he is raggin...
Who the fock even invited him into this thread?
Gotta love a guy with no boat who thinks he knows it all.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Who the fock even invited him into this thread?
Gotta love a guy with no boat who thinks he knows it all.
He is just droolin all over his keyboard:D
I can imagin him now..... "WHen I grow up I wanna be just like 396" :D :D

[OverKill]

Hey Mike, Blow Jane aint got know boat because I kept drawing 21 on his ASS. He reiminds me of all the crying babies that loose a stupid $20 in 30 seconds.:D

[ironman44bear]

Hey Jet, I think you should put about 4 foot lengths of pipe in between each fitting that way you can adjust your shiat while you are cruzzin on da water from the front seat .:D :D
Ironman

[Oldsquirt]

Jetaholic, I remember from a previous thread that you plan to use a Banderlog water injection control valve. I don't see a connection for that in your plumbing pic and it was intended to be tied into the system before any pressure reducing devices. In other words, it needs to tie-in between the ball valve nearest the pump and the bypass regulator.
You could easily eliminate the garden hose fitting and valve. For as infrequently as you will need to use it, it is just extra weight and one more place to have a problem. Just use a similar connector on the regulator outlet leading to the engine. If you need to run water through the engine, disconnect the fitting and connect water hose directly at that point. Lot simpler.

[Jetaholic]

Jetaholic, I remember from a previous thread that you plan to use a Banderlog water injection control valve. I don't see a connection for that in your plumbing pic and it was intended to be tied into the system before any pressure reducing devices. In other words, it needs to tie-in between the ball valve nearest the pump and the bypass regulator.
You could easily eliminate the garden hose fitting and valve. For as infrequently as you will need to use it, it is just extra weight and one more place to have a problem. Just use a similar connector on the regulator outlet leading to the engine. If you need to run water through the engine, disconnect the fitting and connect water hose directly at that point. Lot simpler.
Hey Oldsquirt...eventually (once finances allow lol) I will be running the Banderlog valve.
Now I have seen people run the "T" fitting you find in a Prestone radiator flush kit. They cut the rubber hose running from the pump to the motor and install it in there. A friend of mine went out on the lake and forgot to put the cap back on it...I know stupid move. But it was that incident that made me decide to hard line the garden hose fitting and place the ball valve in line with it. It's a fail safe so that even if you accidentally leave the valve open...hopefully before you sink you remember to close it, then pull the plug and drive your ass off to drain the water out and have someone replace the plug while you're driving lol j/k.
Sorry...had to give ya shit...but to be honest I do see your point. :D

[Jetaholic]

Hey Jet, I think you should put about 4 foot lengths of pipe in between each fitting ...
Story of my life brutha...
...that way you can adjust your shiat while you are cruzzin on da water from the front seat .
Who says I don't already?

[Oldsquirt]

Jet, I think you are misunderstanding my suggestion about the garden hose hook-up. Instead of having a separate leg with a valve and coupler, remove that completely and simply use a coupler to connect your engine feed line to the output of the regulator. For flushing or trailer running, you disconnect the engine hose from regulator and couple the garden hose to the engine hose. Its all you need. You don't need any "T"s or valves. You can even do this with quick-disconnect type couplers if you are planning to use braided stainless plumbing.

[Duane HTP]

Just a word of caution here. I would not use a globe valve for the jet boat water control application. No doubt, they are a good valve, but I've seen too many boats have heating problems because of them. Have you ever noticed how the water flows freely through the Hot water valve of your bathroom faucet when first turned on? Then as the water turns hot, the flow slows down? This is the way a globe valve reacts to heat. I've seen it happen many times that a boat will go out and run just fine with a globe valve in the inlet line. Then when the engine is shut off, the hot water from the engine flows backwards towards the valve, and can change the setting on it. On the next fire up, you can roast your engine before you know what happened. This problem is typical of a globe valve and should be avoided. A ball valve will work, but is very very touchy and can get bumped easily. My best results have always been with a gate valve set properly and then tighten the packing nut to hold it in place.
My .o2; worth. just trying to save someone the headache.

[widowmaker]

Just a word of caution here. I would not use a globe valve for the jet boat water control application. No doubt, they are a good valve, but I've seen too many boats have heating problems because of them. Have you ever noticed how the water flows freely through the Hot water valve of your bathroom faucet when first turned on? Then as the water turns hot, the flow slows down? This is the way a globe valve reacts to heat. I've seen it happen many times that a boat will go out and run just fine with a globe valve in the inlet line. Then when the engine is shut off, the hot water from the engine flows backwards towards the valve, and can change the setting on it. On the next fire up, you can roast your engine before you know what happened. This problem is typical of a globe valve and should be avoided. A ball valve will work, but is very very touchy and can get bumped easily. My best results have always been with a gate valve set properly and then tighten the packing nut to hold it in place.
My .o2; worth. just trying to save someone the headache.
Cool thanks for the info Duane, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with a globe valve. Good to know. Like I said I have never run one but from a technical stand point they are the best at regulating flow and pressure, but it sounds like for jetboat application they are NOT the way to go.
Thanks Duane.

[b's sanger]

I run a gate valve with a pressure bypass. Might want to shorten your connections a bit. I'll try and get a pic of mine for reference. Oh, and no thermostat on mine. Have not had a problem with temp. Just had to tweak the gate and bypass a bit.
B
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20070311_IMG_0001.JPG

[Ken F]

Man, with the title of this thread I'm amazed that Rogain hasn't been on it like a bishop on a choirboy!