e85 fuel, why aren't more boaters runnin it?

[IMPATIENT 1]

if e85 is 85% methanol, and lots cheaper than super unleaded, why aren't more blower boats runnin it as their "cheap gas"? seems like it would work great in a boat other than using more of it than gas. it allows alot of timing too.i was thinking about it last nite and seems like a cheap way to run a blower boat without intercooler and make more power. anybody got any info on it? we don't have pumps here yet but i can get 55gallon drums of the stuff for 2/3 the price of what super unleaded would cost me. its got cylinder lube addictives in it, just gotta have good fuel lines.

[sanger rat]

Volume is one of the main reasons. You'll need a bigger pump and bigger lines. Carb will have to be reworked to flow more fuel. In a normal jet boat 20 gallons isn't going to get you far.

[92562]

e85 is Ethanol, not Methanol. Ethanol mixed with gasoline undergoes a chemical reaction when it sits too long in a tank (because it attracts more water) which leaves a non-combustable fluid on the bottom of your tank. This means your boat will start and run just long enought to get to the wakeless bouys and then die, leaving you stranded until you can bleed the "sludge" from your lines. Also, if you have an older fiberglass tank, ethanol eats fiberglass!
Keep ethanol out of your tank!

[STV_Keith]

E85 also gets less MPG the gasoline. So even though it's cheaper, you won't go as far on the same amount, so why bother? I'd rather have more MPG in the tank than less $$$ in the tank.

[Infomaniac]

Really should try it before knocking it. but don't use it unless you need the octane.
I plan on using it immediately when available in Oklahoma.
A 12.5:1 street machine or highly boosted street machine. Or lake boat either way.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Really should try it before knocking it. but don't use it unless you need the octane.
I plan on using it immediately when available in Oklahoma.
A 12.5:1 street machine or highly boosted street machine. Or lake boat either way.
we're on the same page man, i thought it'd be a great alternative to runnin a full alky boat, and i bet i could feed the mill alot of timing on the stuff. i've driven flexfuel trucks that come in with the e85 in them and they haul azzz.

[Unchained]

Is there any data on it that suggests that E85 is supposed to make
more power than pump gas ?
I find that hard to believe without a higher compression ratio.

[Cat & Mice]

Big difference between Ethanol and Methanol
the E in E85 stands for Ethanol
MP

[steve d]

Big difference between Ethanol and Methanol
the E in E85 stands for Ethanol
MP
The "M" in methanol stands for Methane.

[Carnivalride]

For what its worth I'm seriously considering running it in my flat. I have a true 12.5:1 static compression 467cid BBC and av-gas is a hassle and race fuels are expensive for the kids tubing. Right now the closest E85 is 20 miles away but I'm supposed to be getting a station within 4 miles of my house. I know it won't run with my carb as it is but since I plan on switching to injection so I think that would be a great time to switch over. The machinist I use has been running it in his shop truck for well over a year now without any trouble (exception starting in the winter when its single digits). I've run it in my 04 Tahoe and it runs fine but I have to agree mileage suffers to the point that when figured in cost per mile the savings don't show for me. But my boat won't run on 91 octane unleaded that we have here either.
Just my .02

[WannabeRacing]

I will run it as soon as it is available here. The closest is 150 miles away. The day I can get it at the pump, I am all over that like a bad leisure suit. I run methanol in just about everything I run. I would love to have a boat run on E85 with a little milder engine than my methanol stuff. 106 octane from the pump. Runs way cooler than gasoline. Get some of the charactoristics better than methanol like not as dry on the upper side of the engine, not as corrosive on lines, tanks, etc. I almost cannot wait.

[IMPATIENT 1]

For what its worth I'm seriously considering running it in my flat. I have a true 12.5:1 static compression 467cid BBC and av-gas is a hassle and race fuels are expensive for the kids tubing. Right now the closest E85 is 20 miles away but I'm supposed to be getting a station within 4 miles of my house. I know it won't run with my carb as it is but since I plan on switching to injection so I think that would be a great time to switch over. The machinist I use has been running it in his shop truck for well over a year now without any trouble (exception starting in the winter when its single digits). I've run it in my 04 Tahoe and it runs fine but I have to agree mileage suffers to the point that when figured in cost per mile the savings don't show for me. But my boat won't run on 91 octane unleaded that we have here either.
Just my .02
i think it'll work better.
i went to gm school on the flexfuel vehicles, it does provide more power than super unleaded fuel.its also requires more of it to produce the correct air/fuel ratio, but we're olny talking jetting up a carb maybe 3-4jet sizes to make the stuff work. i do believe once it catchs on, it'll be in alot more boats.i may installed alky needle/seats in my carbs and go ahead and run 1/2 alky fuel line to and from tanks ,to pump, to mill, and try some this summer.
ethanol /methanol, they both have high octane ratings and both require "alky"style fuel systems to run em. methanol maybe more volatile than ethanol, but e85 has more bang for the buck than superunleaded/avgas and is easier on the valvetrain than alky.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Big difference between Ethanol and Methanol
the E in E85 stands for Ethanol
MP
good point, but now lets hear why it would perform any different.i'm seriously thinking of runnin the stuff and all i'm getting back here is opinions with no back-ups, lets discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the e85, keep this thread a good info discussion.

[Cat & Mice]

IMPATIENT 1
Back off, I had a few cocktails before I posted that!:D
I have no F-n idea what the difference is. I am curios and will be looking to this thread to explain it:)
MP

[IMPATIENT 1]

IMPATIENT 1
Back off, I had a few cocktails before I posted that!:D
I have no F-n idea what the difference is. I am curios and will be looking to this thread to explain it:)
MP
lol, sorry if that post came across crass:D i'm really interested in the stuff and i know some gm concept show cars that are putting out major hp on it.

[texas-19]

Here is a thread with real testing.
You'll have to read through some bull to get to the good stuff.
Someone posted that it puts sludge in your tank when mixed with
gas,what do think it's mixed with in the first place?
I see alot of potential for high compression motors if set-up right.
The nay-sayers are the ones that don't know what they are talking about.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0
This thread is more about turbo engines but their is some real testing
and some good info.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Here is a thread with real testing.
You'll have to read through some bull to get to the good stuff.
Someone posted that it puts sludge in your tank when mixed with
gas,what do think it's mixed with in the first place?
I see alot of potential for high compression motors if set-up right.
The nay-sayers are the ones that don't know what they are talking about.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0
This thread is more about turbo engines but their is some real testing
and some good info.
good link!thanks tx.
let's get serious about this and i'll be the test pig for ***boats.com. what's it gonna take to run the e85 other than alky fuel lines and needles/seats in the carb? my pump is alky compatible already.have to check and see on my regulator.
the guys talking bs have no clue. i went to gm training for flex fuel vehicles and gm put 10 of 1000's of flex fuel high-end sport utilities out the last few yrs., they trust the technogy. i do have 1st hand knowledge of the sluddging prob though, it does happen.we do 6-7 flex fuel pumps in the tahoes and burbs due to clogged outter strainer on the fuel modules. but all one has to do i run it by its self!! what 15% fuel it has in it, is there for drivability reasons and lube, but its cleaner than pump.

[texas-19]

I like your thinking.My apologies to the guy that talked about the sludge.
Did they talk about the sludging problem in the training?
I gotta think their was some cheap straight gas already in the tank,
then e85 was added on top of it?
Just using e85 only may be alright?
Wonder if it is pumped into your tank that way or it reacts in the tank?
You think you could filter it out when filling the tank?
Maybe strain the fuel when filling tanks with a strainer added to a funnel?
You don't want to worry about your blower motor going lean from a plugged filter.
Should do some checking to find out more about the sludge deal before
continuing.Sound like you have a good source for info at the school you went to.

[IMPATIENT 1]

i honestly believe the sludging has nothing to do with the tanks, most gm tanks are plastic. i do think it may make water turn to sludge in the tanks though, that's my theory on what went wrong with all the modules we had fail. i don't know how ethanol reacts to alum tanks and that's a concern for me i need to ask about. i just think it'd be neat to have a high boosted bbc runnin around "all green" and shiat:D be cheap to run hard all day too;)

[sanger rat]

The sludging was from the E85 cleaning all the old varnish and crap in the old tanks and lines. E85 will eat fiberglass too.

[WVspeedfreak]

I'll stick with 100 LL AV gas. It will sustain 12-1 compression no problem. I have run it in my dirt track cars and my drag car for years. I run it in my blower motor in my boat. It makes 13 lbs. boost and no intercooler.....no problem there either. It is only 2.99 gallon. I just bought twenty gallons this weekend. It has lead in it...good for valves. Downside.... no upper cylinder lubrication. I fix that by mixing marvel mystery oil in it at a 100 to 1 ratio which actually raises the octane slightly also. Also another downside is it doesnt have as much explosive power ounce per ounce as compared to race gas. Good idea to jet up a few sizes also.
Mike

[IMPATIENT 1]

I'll stick with 100 LL AV gas. It will sustain 12-1 compression no problem. I have run it in my dirt track cars and my drag car for years. I run it in my blower motor in my boat. It makes 13 lbs. boost and no intercooler.....no problem there either. It is only 2.99 gallon. I just bought twenty gallons this weekend. It has lead in it...good for valves. Downside.... no upper cylinder lubrication. I fix that by mixing marvel mystery oil in it at a 100 to 1 ratio which actually raises the octane slightly also. Also another downside is it doesnt have as much explosive power ounce per ounce as compared to race gas. Good idea to jet up a few sizes also.
Mike
yeah, we all dig avgas but it creates alot more egt than e85 does. i read the whole link texas-19 was nice enough to give us, and those guys are seeing over 100 degrees(most runnin 15+lbs of boost with full 36 degrees total timing!) less egt than on race fuel/avgas and better hardware results with the e85 over methanol. how much timing are you able to feed at 13lbs boost? i bet you'd get another 5-6degrees more on the e85 instead of avgas;) and it cleans the mill constantly.

[IMPATIENT 1]

the owner of the dealership i work at also owns a fuel distributing company here in hugo(jp oil company) and his wife is hunting me down the best prices she can get for me in 55g drums. if i can get it for less than 2 bucks a gallon, i'm buy 2 drums and try it out this summer.

[texas-19]

Ok,back to e85.You asked about what's it gonna take to run e85.
May want to consider something to catch any sludge material,i guess a water/fuel seperator won't work,and also a
low fuel pressure kill switch.Those turbo guys are using aluminum gas tanks with no problems so the right fuel lines and a compatable pump should
take care of fuel supply.
Sounds like the carbs are just a matter of tuning.
Some guys say you need 10-15% more fuel and some all the way to 40% more.Just have too see what it needs so i would buy an digital egt.
You can buy a digital egt thermocouple to tune with.
I used one before i switched to turbos.Summit sells a digital battery powered unit that i kept under the seat until wot,i had the passenger hold it so we could both see it.In fact i still have it and will loan it to you,i'm using an o2 sensor now.If you like it just use it until you can afford your own.All you will have to do is drill a small hole in the exhaust and it will clamp on with a hose clamp that's included.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Ok,back to e85.You asked about what's it gonna take to run e85.
May want to consider something to catch any sludge material,i guess a water/fuel seperator won't work,and also a
low fuel pressure kill switch.Those turbo guys are using aluminum gas tanks with no problems so the right fuel lines and a compatable pump should
take care of fuel supply.
Sounds like the carbs are just a matter of tuning.
Some guys say you need 10-15% more fuel and some all the way to 40% more.Just have too see what it needs so i would buy an digital egt.
You can buy a digital egt thermocouple to tune with.
I used one before i switched to turbos.Summit sells a digital battery powered unit that i kept under the seat until wot,i had the passenger hold it so we could both see it.In fact i still have it and will loan it to you,i'm using an o2 sensor now.If you like it just use it until you can afford your own.All you will have to do is drill a small hole in the exhaust and it will clamp on with a hose clamp that's included.
i've been considering getting my headers coated, and just read 396's new thread over in jets , his turned out nice and i thought i may be able to find someone more local(with 100-300 miles) to coat mine nice.figured i would install a o2 system before hand anyways, at least the bung for it.
do you think the basic o2 system will interpret e85 correctly or be outta calibration on the stuff?

[texas-19]

i've been considering getting my headers coated, and just read 396's new thread over in jets , his turned out nice and i thought i may be able to find someone more local(with 100-300 miles) to coat mine nice.figured i would install a o2 system before hand anyways, at least the bung for it.
do you think the basic o2 system will interpret e85 correctly or be outta calibration on the stuff?
Most guys are using gas calibration and best power seems to be around 12.0 A/F ratio.Also need to drop sparkplugs down 3 sizes according to one of the manufacturers.

[Marcsrollin]

After labor day I will try and run some and I'll let you all know how it goes. I already have alky gaskets on my carbs and my 460 is already overcarbed. Plus I am running somewere between 10.25 and 11 to one compression. I have read in more than one article that it requires 15% more fuel to the current amount of air.
Wish me luck!!

[IMPATIENT 1]

After labor day I will try and run some and I'll let you all know how it goes. I already have alky gaskets on my carbs and my 460 is already overcarbed. Plus I am running somewere between 10.25 and 11 to one compression. I have read in more than one article that it requires 15% more fuel to the current amount of air.
Wish me luck!!
i think it's gonna work out good for ya, keep us posted on the results!

[ck7684]

http://www.e85viper.com/

[Unchained]

I read up on it some more and it looks like it wants to run at about 10:1 AFR but I don't know if that's at max load or light load.
I would give it a try as a replacement for 110 octane race gas but
I don't know if my injectors would have enough capacity for that much fuel volume. I have 160#/hr injectors now which are about as big as they get and I'm running about 75% duty cycle on them at WOT 20# boost. The learning curve trying out a new fuel could be damaging.
So the sludging problem could be overcome by making sure you only run e85 and don't dump it in on top of any other gas ?
My whole fuel system could take E85 fuel now and my fuel pump has plenty of capacity.
There's a gas station with E85 on the way to where I boat that would be pretty convenient. I would consider it a plus to think that I'm using fuel made in my state rather than getting it from some greedy Arabs. :devil:
110 octane fuel ranges from $4.89/gal to $6./gal around here.

[jimsplace]

E85 sounds interesting and I had thought about using it with a blower, but it is not that available around here.
It is my understanding alcohol is pretty corrosive when used with aluminum. Aren't carburetors made of aluminum, which could be a problem.
As a rough guide, it is my understanding it takes approx. twice the volume of fuel with alcohol than gas. -"IF"- that is the case, wouldn't it require a jet size 85% bigger with E85 than straight gasoline? (That would be 85% larger by area).

[flattie]

Just talked to the guys at quickfuel technologies & they told me I would probally have to down size in carbs to make this work??? because of the signal???
But he told me I would pick up torq and some hp. It is less octane than what Im running for fuel now. Someone try it let me know how it works for them. Im curious

[IMPATIENT 1]

E85 sounds interesting and I had thought about using it with a blower, but it is not that available around here.
It is my understanding alcohol is pretty corrosive when used with aluminum. Aren't carburetors made of aluminum, which could be a problem.
As a rough guide, it is my understanding it takes approx. twice the volume of fuel with alcohol than gas. -"IF"- that is the case, wouldn't it require a jet size 85% bigger with E85 than straight gasoline? (That would be 85% larger by area).
its not corrosive. i work on e85 vehicles everyday and they run great on the stuff! at the gm flex fuel classed i went too, they told us that gm vehicles used @20% more e85 than gas, but the 20% more also yielded lower egt's, lower intake temps, and @15% more power.
man, if i had a pump near me, there's no question in my mind that the stuff would work awesome in a blown boat.

[IndianaTahiti]

Ok,back to e85.You asked about what's it gonna take to run e85.
May want to consider something to catch any sludge material,i guess a water/fuel seperator won't work,and also a
low fuel pressure kill switch.Those turbo guys are using aluminum gas tanks with no problems so the right fuel lines and a compatable pump should
take care of fuel supply.
Sounds like the carbs are just a matter of tuning.
Some guys say you need 10-15% more fuel and some all the way to 40% more.Just have too see what it needs so i would buy an digital egt.
You can buy a digital egt thermocouple to tune with.
I used one before i switched to turbos.Summit sells a digital battery powered unit that i kept under the seat until wot,i had the passenger hold it so we could both see it.In fact i still have it and will loan it to you,i'm using an o2 sensor now.If you like it just use it until you can afford your own.All you will have to do is drill a small hole in the exhaust and it will clamp on with a hose clamp that's included.
I would jet for alky and come down from there.I gonna try it next season.

[ck7684]

Ethanol is raising the price of decent beef tho...:(

[IMPATIENT 1]

Ethanol is raising the price of decent beef tho...:(
that's unavoidable at this point man;) either we spend alittle more for beef, or we stay dependent on foriegn oil

[JAY4SPEED]

I read an atricle on E85 a year or two ago that stated ethanol attracted moisture and that when moisture is mixed in with ethanol, thats what makes the sludge. I don't know this for fact but, if that is indeed the case, you may want to rethink the way your fuel tanks are vented. Just another thought. Good luck with the project.
Jay

[JAY4SPEED]

By the way, I pulled this value from the ECM of an '07 Silverado with a 5.3L LY5. This is the exact table that the ecm uses to calculate stoich with ethanol blends. Keep in mind, this is for stoich, not max power. May be useful info.;)
LABELS Stoichiometric AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio)
Ethanol % - Value
0.0 - 14.678224
6.2 - 14.322267
12.5 - 13.965822
18.7 - 13.609865
25.0 - 13.252931
31.2 - 12.896974
37.5 - 12.541017
43.7 - 12.184083
50.0 - 11.828126
56.2 - 11.472169
62.5 - 11.115236
68.7 - 10.758790
75.0 - 10.402833
81.2 - 10.046876
87.5 - 9.689942
93.7 - 9.333985
100.0 - 8.978028
Jay

[Unchained]

I'd be tempted to try it with some accurate A/F ratio numbers to shoot for.
I could drain the tanks, put in all E85 and remap from there.
It may be possible to just add a % to the existing maps to get to the higher A/F ratio.
It probably would take an hour or so for most initial mapping.
I could save all the maps and switch back to race gas easy.
:idea:
I looked up the location of two gas stations that would be pretty convenient.

[jimsplace]

Using the above chart, would that indicate an increase of approx. 45% increase in fuel volume needed?

[IMPATIENT 1]

I'd be tempted to try it with some accurate A/F ratio numbers to shoot for.
I could drain the tanks, put in all E85 and remap from there.
It may be possible to just add a % to the existing maps to get to the higher A/F ratio.
It probably would take an hour or so for most initial mapping.
I could save all the maps and switch back to race gas easy.
:idea:
I looked up the location of two gas stations that would be pretty convenient.
i'll do some research then, it'd be great to have a good gas vs e85 info;) i think everyone here is tempted, just noonce can find a/f ratio info etc. to try it. hell if there was a pump within 50miles i'd give it a try.

[IMPATIENT 1]

here's a good read on a turbo'd e85 pontiac putting out 1k+ hp
http://hardcorepontiacs.com/forum/169-e85-report.html
more:
http://eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=188508&page=1

[92562]

I read an atricle on E85 a year or two ago that stated ethanol attracted moisture and that when moisture is mixed in with ethanol, thats what makes the sludge. I don't know this for fact but, if that is indeed the case, you may want to rethink the way your fuel tanks are vented. Just another thought. Good luck with the project.
Jay
True! This is what becomes sludge, the water the ethanol attracts. Of course what can you put in the tank to get rid of water? Methanol! (in small quantities). You could also use Iso-propyl alcohol. The biggest problem with E85 is the marine environment. If you store your boat indoors, have low humidity, and don't go on multi-day trips you'll have no problems. If you have humidity, go on multi-day trips, etc., keep some Methanol around. Also, plan on changing fuel water seperators more often. An example of a boat that should never use E85 would be say a house boat, or something that never sees a trailer. If you run E85 in a boat, don't store it with fuel in the tank, bowls, etc.
my .02

[earlbrown]

I read an atricle on E85 a year or two ago that stated ethanol attracted moisture and that when moisture is mixed in with ethanol, thats what makes the sludge. I don't know this for fact but, if that is indeed the case, you may want to rethink the way your fuel tanks are vented. Just another thought. Good luck with the project.
Jay
Actually water and ethanol get along just fine. It's the 15% gas that the water doesn't like.
I was looking at building a still a few months ago and using straight ethanol in the boat but the price of copper messed me up. Even with the tax credits, $1000 in my still put my break even point a little too far away.

[JAY4SPEED]

http://e85.whipnet.net/ethanol.faq/index.html
4th Question from the top. Boat fuel systems are not, for the most part, sealed. It seems that some type of water separation system / filter would be critical.
Found another article that discusses water absorption in a marine application and winter storage of ethanol in boats. However they are discussing E-10 which is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, not E85 which is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/ethanolwinter.asp
I've also found out that E10 only raises gasoline octane rating 2 or 3 points and can be used in any gasoline burning vehicle. E85 has an octane rating from 100 to 105 and is ethanol blended with cheap 87 octane gas. E85 is not as consistent in octane levels as I thought it was. It looks like E85 can vary octane content from batch to batch depending on additives and quality of base 87 gasoline that its blended with, causing you to check the ethanol content at each fill up and try to determine true octane level if your going to run on the ragged edge of performance. You may have to constantly play with the timing and boost levels. If you play it safe and set a tune on your boat to run closer to the 100 octane end of the scale, you may as well run premium 98 octane gasoline with octane booster. At that level it doesn't seem that the risk is worth the reward when considering fuel consumption and mods needed to the boat and fuel system to give the engine the volume of fuel it needs. This is why on flex fuel vehicles, the ECM will calculate alcohol content at every detected fill up, so it knows what adjustments to make to fueling and timing. It looks like with EFI it can be done with minimal fuss. Seems like a lot of work to do manually though. But, Impatient 1, you could regularly check alcohol content using a J44175 Fuel composition tester to figure out ethanol content. But, I'm not sure on how you would relate that to octane content. Again, good luck, I'd love to see you pull it off! Thats what Hotrodding is all about, instead of talking about it and trying to predict the outcome, someone just goes out there and tinkers and see what works.
Jay

[Blown 472]

http://e85.whipnet.net/ethanol.faq/index.html
4th Question from the top. Boat fuel systems are not, for the most part, sealed. It seems that some type of water separation system / filter would be critical.
Found another article that discusses water absorption in a marine application and winter storage of ethanol in boats. However they are discussing E-10 which is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, not E85 which is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/ethanolwinter.asp
I've also found out that E10 only raises gasoline octane rating 2 or 3 points and can be used in any gasoline burning vehicle. E85 has an octane rating from 100 to 105 and is ethanol blended with cheap 87 octane gas. E85 is not as consistent in octane levels as I thought it was. It looks like E85 can vary octane content from batch to batch depending on additives and quality of base 87 gasoline that its blended with, causing you to check the ethanol content at each fill up and try to determine true octane level if your going to run on the ragged edge of performance. You may have to constantly play with the timing and boost levels. If you play it safe and set a tune on your boat to run closer to the 100 octane end of the scale, you may as well run premium 98 octane gasoline with octane booster. At that level it doesn't seem that the risk is worth the reward when considering fuel consumption and mods needed to the boat and fuel system to give the engine the volume of fuel it needs. This is why on flex fuel vehicles, the ECM will calculate alcohol content at every detected fill up, so it knows what adjustments to make to fueling and timing. It looks like with EFI it can be done with minimal fuss. Seems like a lot of work to do manually though. But, Impatient 1, you could regularly check alcohol content using a J44175 Fuel composition tester to figure out ethanol content. But, I'm not sure on how you would relate that to octane content. Again, good luck, I'd love to see you pull it off! Thats what Hotrodding is all about, instead of talking about it and trying to predict the outcome, someone just goes out there and tinkers and see what works.
Jay
I just bought some e85 last week and noticed it said min 70 percent alcohol, so yeah the octane could be all over the place.

[Unchained]

Hmm....So now they can't get a consistent octane rating out of it, it is going to absorb water out of the air, it may turn to sludge in the tank, run like shit and corrode the hell out of things. Summers are real humid around here so that isn't going to help me at all.
Some of this additional information is making this look less appealing.
It appears that AT BEST the octane is going to be 105 but it may be as low as 100. :rolleyes:
This is sounding like something someone brewed up from the local still......
......wait a minute....it is. :D

[JAY4SPEED]

Some of this additional information is making this look less appealing.
It appears that AT BEST the octane is going to be 105 but it may be as low as 100. :rolleyes:
This is sounding like something someone brewed up from the local still......
......wait a minute....it is. :D
Thinking along those lines of a local still. I wonder how hard it would be to blend your own mixture. Could 100% ethanol be obtained and blended with 95 or 98 octane premium gasoline instead of the cheap 87 like they use? Then you would know the octane content is consistant and minimum octane could be, what, like 105? It would probably work out to cost as much as low grade race fuel. :idea: That may be worth the trouble considering that the ethanol may cool the intake charge of boosted engines where race fuel may not do so well.
Jay

[1968Droptop]

If e85 needs more fuel and can eat up fuel lines, how can they sell it to the public ? There is a ton of carburated cars still on the road, what happens to them ? I can understand a new computer car can make on the go adjustments, but can they make enough of an adjustment ? Can my wifes `94 Honda (255K and still purring) make the needed adjustments on it's own ?
It does indeed sound attractive. But water sounds as though it can cause trouble, which our boats are surrounded by when in use. Octane varrying also sounds a bit scary. They don't even have that stuff up here in the N/W, so for now I don't have any choice. But even if they did, I'd wait a bit and see what happens. Just like buying a new model car, best to wait a year or two so they can work out the bugs :idea:.

[Unchained]

Thinking along those lines of a local still. I wonder how hard it would be to blend your own mixture. Could 100% ethanol be obtained and blended with 95 or 98 octane premium gasoline instead of the cheap 87 like they use? Then you would know the octane content is consistant and minimum octane could be, what, like 105? It would probably work out to cost as much as low grade race fuel. :idea: That may be worth the trouble considering that the ethanol may cool the intake charge of boosted engines where race fuel may not do so well.
Jay
Now that's a damn good idea. :idea:
I bet you could look up on the net just how to do it too.
There's lots of corn available around here. I could go down the street and get a pickup full in 10 minutes.
You could sell the excess and make some extra coin too. :idea: :D

[jimsplace]

If you were to mix you own fuel, Ethanol and gas, instead of using pump gas, why not mix AV gas or racing gas and see what happens.
Let me know how it works, I might try it. If it works!
Seriously, I think the E85 may have some potential.

[JAY4SPEED]

Now that's a damn good idea. :idea:
I bet you could look up on the net just how to do it too.
There's lots of corn available around here. I could go down the street and get a pickup full in 10 minutes.
You could sell the excess and make some extra coin too. :idea: :D
You any good at shucking corn??:D
Check this out:
Making your own E85 (http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id36.html)

[earlbrown]

You can mix it with whatever you'd like. The reason it's got 15% gas in it is just to make it undrinkable. If it's drinkable the ATF&E want's thier whiskey tax.
Gas by itself works great and ethanol by itself works great too. Unfortunately when you have to mix in gasoline to appease people that really messes up your project.
If it were legal to run straight ethanol, you'd be shooting for somewhere around 160 proof. That means your fuel is 20% water. In this instance that's not a bad thing. You basically have built in water injection and all the goodness that comes with that.Extra compression, latent heat energy, steam cleaning, anti-detonate, etc.... And in a roundabout way and additional 20% increase in fuel output. Using 160 proof that means it only takes 4 gallons of ethanol to make 5 gallons of fuel.
When gasoline gets added to the mix, the water will fall out of suspension and cause all the bad stuff.
Now I did find one small loophole in the law about the denaturing rules. If you add fuel to your machinery on the same lot it was distilled at you don't have to add a poison. Basically that was written for a working farm. You can distill it and pour it straight into the combine without having to poison the golden grain.
I was thinking if I ever got my still running I'd just fill up the tanks in my driveway and be all legal like.
I've done a lot of research into brewing my own ethanol but unfortunately the still was going to run me right at $1000 to build. By the time I built it, sourced some sort of mash ingredients, and got fuel for the still, my break even would be pretty far off.
There's one other GREAT benefit to home distilling though. Our government in it's grand wisdom wants to encourage alternate fuels. If you distill at home you're eligible for a $.52/gallon tax CREDIT for every gallon you make. Even if you sell it, you still get the credit. (the leftover mash can be sold as badass cattle feed too)
If you were to set up a still and really crank out some golden grain, you could basically get out of paying taxes.

[Unchained]

This is getting more interesting yet now.
I tell you what I would really like to do is have a fuel source to heat and provide electricity for the house here. The cost per year is way over the top.
Average about $ 600./mo year round for electric and LP gas.
:idea: I'm going to have to do some more checking into this. :idea:
A home brewed fuel source. :idea: Tax credits. :idea: Fuel for the boat engine. :idea: A still in the back yard :idea: On site moonshine production. :idea:
If you could get the cost to about $ 1./ gal to produce and get .52/ gal tax credit that would look pretty good in the long run.
I never envisioned myself as operating a still before. :rolleyes:

[earlbrown]

It does seem pretty interesting.
The trick would be to get in good with the local farmers market and such. I'm not sure what their rate of spoilage is, but any thing with sugar in it can be made into moonshi..... err, motor fuel.
In my mind I'm trying to work out as much free energy as possible and the ability to make everything as autopilot as possible.
If I could verify a source of some free produce and some sort of free scrap wood, that would cut down on the mash costs and the heating costs.
The trick would be just to spend the $1000 to get the still up and running.
At first I wanted to build the still for the coolness factor. Right now it woudn't be feasible to convert any of my cars over. But being able to not pay taxes and run my boat for free does sound pretty cool.
Oh yeah, did you catch that bit about the taxes? It's a tax credit not a tax break.

[IMPATIENT 1]

it just so happens that i have a neighbor with a still:D so i can run the stuff he makes in the boat???

[jimsplace]

Does he sell it for less than $3.00 a gallon??

[IMPATIENT 1]

Does he sell it for less than $3.00 a gallon??
lol, he generally doesn't sell it.

[earlbrown]

it just so happens that i have a neighbor with a still:D so i can run the stuff he makes in the boat???
If it's 160 (or greater) proof you can. Just bump up your jetting for the golden grain.

[hotrod56cars]

Bump