460 Ford That Die's????

[WET-N-WILD]

I have a 460 ford in a 21 foot centurion day cruiser that was rebuilt by a well know shop here in my home town, and after installing the fresh motor...it dies. I'll be skimming across the lake and it starts to chock and miss, and sputter. As the boat slows, and tries to run, but has no power I turn the key off, and the boat disels for 4 or 5 seconds. After that it fire right back and I hit it and off we go. I dont think it has much to do with timing because I had a local Ford mech. set it all. This summer is our 2nd summer trying to figure this out. We spent all last summer trying every thing. I have now replaced every thing around the engine. I have been reading on this site for 2 yrs and figured maybe I should join and ask. My dad races his boat aroung the local lakes, but is a chevy guy and simi retired and cant figure it out?
Thanks for any help in advace!!
Jeff

[Some Kind Of Monster]

I have a 460 ford in a 21 foot centurion day cruiser that was rebuilt by a well know shop here in my home town, and after installing the fresh motor...it dies. I'll be skimming across the lake and it starts to chock and miss, and sputter. As the boat slows, and tries to run, but has no power I turn the key off, and the boat disels for 4 or 5 seconds. After that it fire right back and I hit it and off we go. I dont think it has much to do with timing because I had a local Ford mech. set it all. This summer is our 2nd summer trying to figure this out. We spent all last summer trying every thing. I have now replaced every thing around the engine. I have been reading on this site for 2 yrs and figured maybe I should join and ask. My dad races his boat aroung the local lakes, but is a chevy guy and simi retired and cant figure it out?
Thanks for any help in advace!!
Jeff
Sounds like you run out of gas.. Check your float levels.. What type of fuel pump? Are you running a regulator?

[uselessgrant]

you are running out of fuel.. check the float level in the carb and if it is ok it is time to bump up your fuel pump to say a holley blue elec pump with a regulator. I had a 460 in a ford pup and it did not check the float levels on a brand new 750 vac sec 4bbl. leaned it out and cracked a piston skirt from the detonation going on at 4800 rpm for 7 or 8 min.:mad:

[Some Kind Of Monster]

you are running out of fuel.. check the float level in the carb and if it is ok it is time to bump up your fuel pump to say a holley blue elec pump with a regulator. I had a 460 in a ford pup and it did not check the float levels on a brand new 750 vac sec 4bbl. leaned it out and cracked a piston skirt from the detonation going on at 4800 rpm for 7 or 8 min.:mad:
De-Ja-Vous!

[WET-N-WILD]

We have checked float level and I had ford Mech rebuild 850 holly. I installed a clear fuel filter and after boat dies, It has some fuel in it. Stock fuel pump....replaced it also, but I started thinking today maybe it is a new bad one? We took boat out today for the first time this season and it died after about 4 min of rum time, I fired it right back up and we ran about 6 min back to shore.

[pw_Tony]

Is the alternator charging? I've had my boat and it would start sputtering and it would die. Wait a sec and the batteries would still have enough power to start it and drive. Replaced the battery and alternator and it fixed the problem. It's possible?

[uselessgrant]

ditch the mech pump and put an elec. one on it with a regulator./ dial it down to about 6-8 psi and you will not run out of fuel anymore. that focker otta scream with and 850 on it if you got enough motor to take it .... which isn't hard with a 460:D

[Moneypitt]

There are 3 required parts to make an engine run. Fuel, air, spark. Air is a given, there is usually plenty. Spark?, Fuel?...Install a fuel pressure gauge where you can see it while driving. When it starts to lay down, check fuel pressure......Good or bad? IF it has fuel pressure when it fails, that leaves only the spark causing the failure. Have you tried a different coil? It is possible for a coil to short inside, overheat and fail. As soon as it stops, it will cool and re fire. You can check the spark with a hand held timing light. While running, have a friend trigger the light at his/her face, Does the spark go away, or get weak? Also, I have had simular problems with a boat that has 2 tanks to a single hose to the F/pump......Shut off one tank and it ran fine, switched to the other, fine. Tried both, failed again. It was all in the plumbing and how the pump pulled fuel or not. You don't have to perminatly install the F/pressure gauge, but you should have one anyway..........3 parts, do a little testing and you'll cure it.........MP

[roostwear]

A few more details would help. What ignition do you run? Points, Pertronix, MSD, etc? Are you using a ballast resistor? Dieseling sounds like a timing symptom, not fuel, but may not be directly related to it cutting out. Does it diesel when you shut it off when it's running good?

[WET-N-WILD]

I never changed the alternator. The volt gauge seems fine, battery and cables also new. If I was running out of fuel, shouldnt the bowls be out of gas after it dies? I have checked them and there still full. ya the boat does ok for aheavey ass boat. I spin 5100 @ 52 mph last time the spedo worked. My dad had the motor done, I only know a little about what he did...like chevy 7.1 roller rockers forged pistons, comp. cam (mid range) ...yada yadayada.....Just want to enjoy it, but tired of patteling..:D
Thanks,
jeff

[BUSHWACKER]

In my 24' SUPERBOAT years ago drove me crazy for awhile in the TANK PICKUP TUBE was a very fine strainer if you have one GET IT OUT, put an inline filter/seperator in line as close to the tank as you can. BEFORE the fuel pump. Hope that fixes it.

[WET-N-WILD]

Points, new billet excel distributor....ballest resitor...a new one. and it always runs good...till it dies....and yes after I turn it off while sliding across the water because it started spitting and spuddering its still diesling
Thanks

[WET-N-WILD]

Ohh, when I take the boat to shore after running it and shut it off, no it does NOT diesel!

[pw_Tony]

Well dieseling can only be from bad fuel, too much compression, or timing right?

[Moneypitt]

Points, new billet excel distributor....ballest resitor...a new one. and it always runs good...till it dies....and yes after I turn it off while sliding across the water because it started spitting and spuddering its still diesling
Thanks
That sounds like electrical to me. The cylinders are full of fuel when the spark dies so it tries to keep running, but no fire. Try the timing light deal. Also try jumping around the ballast resistor, just as a test, to see of the 12 v TO the coil is dropping to far......Process of elimination...........I don't think it is fuel....MP

[pw_Tony]

That sounds like electrical to me. The cylinders are full of fuel when the spark dies so it tries to keep running, but no fire. Try the timing light deal. Also try jumping around the ballast resistor, just as a test, to see of the 12 v TO the coil is dropping to far......Process of elimination...........I don't think it is fuel....MP
Sounds right to me. Ditch the points

[minnesota_duane]

What temp is the gauge showing when it dies?

[dirtracer1971]

how close are your fuel lines to a heat source?do they run close to your exaust.What jets are you running,and what kind of choke mechanism are you running?and are you possibly overheating the motor somehow?Is your timing tape,or pointer correct.

[WET-N-WILD]

Well I know my compression is 9. something,. I can get the exact number from pops. As far as the points go, I went to points for the reliabilty factor. I know there not as good and elec. but my dads boat turns 7200rpm with a 483 bbc putting out 748 horse. To answer all the questions, the boat runs around 160- 170 degrees in the heat of the summer, and in the slow zones gets up to 200-220, but cools quick after take off. Fuel line are ran under water logs maybe 6 inches below. We though last year I might have been vapor locking so we looked into that. Asuming heat rises, I should be ok. Has anyone ever had a fuel line collapes inside? My jet are 80 and 82's. There is no choke on carb anymore. It used to be wired shut, and now its gone. I used to think it was my carb, so I took one of my dads 850,s off while he was on vacation, but the boat did the same things.
Thanks guys

[roostwear]

First, I would ditch the points. I have had 2 conditions do what you are experiencing. First, (and the biggest PIA) was a coil that would short out internally with heat. As it ran the windings would heat up, then short out. Cool it down, and it was fine until it heated up again.
The other was a Pertronix II bad pickup module. It'd run for 10 minutes or so, then started crapping out. Again, cool it down, and it was fine for 10 more.

[LAFD]

had this happen to me on a rebuilt 460. would run like a bat outta hell than sputter and fall on its face. redid the points and still did the same thing. checkd all the wiring to the coil and found a couple wires at the connectors werent crimped in very good. recrimped the wire and walla ran like a sumbitch.

[Moneypitt]

OK, nothing wrong with points. Easy to fix, unlike the electronic stuff. With points you add another possibility, the condenser. A marginal condenser will do the same as a marginal coil. Also, what wires do you run? The modern day resistor type wires are for the high output systems, not points/condenser, and the additional resistence COULD create overheating of the coil/condenser. Lets look at which componants CAN be intermiten. Plugs, no....points, no.....condenser, could be, coil, could be. Could also be in the boats wiring, maybe an unknown breaker somewhere that over heats??? I would "hot wire" it and see if it still has a problem. If it still does it, then you can eliminate the boats wiring completely, and consentrate on the rest. If not, then back the hot wire up to the ballast resistor, try it.....etc. etc. etc. It really can't be all that hard to find, it is not like a 90s vehicle with hundreds of circuits and sensors, it is a simple system, and remember the "3 parts"........Only 3.......MP

[b's sanger]

Did you re do any of the wiring?

[HalletDave]

We have checked float level and I had ford Mech rebuild 850 holly. I installed a clear fuel filter and after boat dies, It has some fuel in it. Stock fuel pump....replaced it also, but I started thinking today maybe it is a new bad one? We took boat out today for the first time this season and it died after about 4 min of rum time, I fired it right back up and we ran about 6 min back to shore.
Did you find the problem yet?
Get rid of the clear see through fuel filter. I'll bet it is limiting fuel flow at WOT. This happened to me on a 460 that I put in a 1978 Bronco. I thought it was vapor lock.
After installing an electric fuel pump and scratching my head for weeks it still continued. Just by chance I replaced the see through filter with a large canister filter and presto it fixed the problem. It is worth a shot and inexpensive.;)

[WET-N-WILD]

I never changed any of the wiring. I will try all these thing maybe this coming weekend. Thanks for all the help moneypit!! The clear fuel filter was not on the other motor, but was added when probs started. I will junk it for now. I will also go through the wire ends to be sure they are tight. Im running a coil my dad had brand new and never usded it. Its a bigger one I think. I know its a msd. My new wires are 8mm msd's also.
Thanks

[lilsquirt]

ok this is a long shot and may sound a little weird but change the roll pin on the distributor gear just for grins. I have had roll pins crack and move slightly under power and when I pulled the distributor gear out it looked fine until I pressed it out and it came out in 2 pieces. This is a long shot though because usually when this happens it changes the timing enough to kill the motor and it stays that way until you retime it. It is feasable though that it could be broken just enough to move under vibration at wot but not be broken all the way through so when it dies it goes back to normal allowing you to restart the motor. Like I said, its a long shot and not really likely but worth a shot if nothing else suggested here works. Also I have had this problem happen when the alternator belt broke and was not charging, fuel lines do collapse but you can feel those are soft, and have had points move around at wot. It is electrical though. just my .02 cents.

[Moneypitt]

I never changed any of the wiring. I will try all these thing maybe this coming weekend. Thanks for all the help moneypit!! The clear fuel filter was not on the other motor, but was added when probs started. I will junk it for now. I will also go through the wire ends to be sure they are tight. Im running a coil my dad had brand new and never usded it. Its a bigger one I think. I know its a msd. My new wires are 8mm msd's also.
Thanks
You had the problem prior to the 8mm wires???? Leave the fuel filter, it is not your problem. Does the mallory have the external condenser? Check the condenser wire. The insulation CAN get old and allow the condenser to discharge to the dist housing. Use a dwell meter to determine point gap(s). BTW, you don't need dual points, one set will work fine. A little history here, what if anything, was changed prior to this problem? Was the "bigger" coil added as a fix? I think you have a mis match between the coil, ballast resistor, and the condenser. Do you have a stock, down the road coil? Try it. The MSD coil MAY not require a ballast resistor, or the ballast resistor could be of the wrong impedence. Or the MSD coil could be for a totally different type ignition system. When did the problem start? Or has the boat done this since you've owned it? As to other's suggestions, remember, mechanical problems are not intermittent, a bad roll pin will always be a bad roll pin, and it is not the timing, valve adjustment, or vapor lock........You are loosing fire and need to evaluate the parts that create spark.......Is there a number on the coil? Check MSDs web site to determine the usage of that numbered coil. One more thing, is the coil wired properly? 12 V to +,(from the boat) and - to the distributor and TACH........Ah ha!!!!! the tach....Unhook the tach. It is wired into the seconday side of the coil and COULD do exactly what is happening if it shorts out inside.......Just another idea.........MP

[minnesota_duane]

Good call on the Tach! I have had that happen before what a P I T A to find.

[TahitiTiger]

And be sure to double check the ballast resistor! When I first got my new engine in it would run intermittantly. I discovered that the ballast resistor was bad with a DVOM. So I got a nice new MSD blaster coil, problem! idiot that sold it to me said it was internally resisted. First day on the lake 10 minutes running my distributor looked like it was on fire! Smoked my brand new pertronix :cry:. New ballast resistor, new tach (burned it up too), new pertronix all is happy :D
and yes the clear filters are garbage, I run two filters, a cheapy baldwin filter, and a fel-pro fuel water seperator.

[Moneypitt]

And be sure to double check the ballast resistor! When I first got my new engine in it would run intermittantly. I discovered that the ballast resistor was bad with a DVOM. So I got a nice new MSD blaster coil, problem! idiot that sold it to me said it was internally resisted. First day on the lake 10 minutes running my distributor looked like it was on fire! Smoked my brand new pertronix :cry:. New ballast resistor, new tach (burned it up too), new pertronix all is happy :D
and yes the clear filters are garbage, I run two filters, a cheapy baldwin filter, and a fel-pro fuel water seperator.
The filter has nothing to do with his problem, the bowls are full when it fails. Has to be ignition......MP

[WET-N-WILD]

Ok mp, Im taking it out with a local ford mech from here!!! I printed all this info and hes going to read it.....I will post something the second I get back....I wont even unhook untill after I post!!!
Thanks!!!!!!!!
Jeff aka-wet-n-wild
P.S.I wish I copuld figure out how to put a pic of my boat on here???

[sleekcrafter]

Sounds like a severe lean out condition, the fact that it diesels is indicating extreme combustion temps, igniting the fuel when the key is off. If the plugs are too hot they can cause this symtom, boats like two to three ranges cooler on the plugs. Check the plugs for color, you want to see some color on them. Whens the last time the carb has been apart? you may be due for a carb rebuild too, sediment, rust, corrosion in the bowls and circuits.

[WET-N-WILD]

The plugs are stock Autolites for the year of the motor...nothing special, and the carb was gone thru by local ford mech shop.....Thanks!!! I will however take a look at the plugs!

[bajarunner]

:idea: Sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem, had this same thing happen to me. Fuel pick-up in the tank had a piece of junk stuck in it. Would sputter and die at hi RPM, but run perfect under lighter (crusing) load. Pulled out the junk and on my way.

[4604me]

I had a bad tac, made my boat run like crap. also dump the points, and resister,get a Pertronix and Flamethrower coil, with internal resister. (matching set) I or II. and be happy. at the vary least try a different known good coil and bypass that resister,just to test. good luck Steve.

[Bajajet]

Tank vent??

[Moneypitt]

:idea: Sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem, had this same thing happen to me. Fuel pick-up in the tank had a piece of junk stuck in it. Would sputter and die at hi RPM, but run perfect under lighter (crusing) load. Pulled out the junk and on my way.
He said the bowls were full when it stops......MP

[R.A.D.man]

Another thing not mentioned but along the electrical side. Ignition switch. I had one go downintermittently and it caused similar problems even the dieseling if I was throttled up when it died. Hot wiring around it is how I found it.

[WET-N-WILD]

I thought about the ignition switch also. Unsure on how to hot wire, but should only be 20 bux for a new one.....and like mp said, after it dies, the bowls are full.
Thanks guys,
Jeff

[dirtracer1971]

dieseling, or engine ru on is typically when the fuel in the cylenders are combusting without an ignition source (heat and compression)This is usually caused by a lean condition, or bad timing causing causing excessive cylender temps. not always gonna be reflected at your temp gauge.You definitely need a pressure gauge at the carb.WOT bowl levels and bowl levels that have had time to refill with residual pressure from lines while you are trying to get to the back of the boat to diagnose are 2 totally different animals.honestly,fords are new to me,however,I have had sbc cam lobes go flat and fuel pump rods get worn which could cause low volume and pressure.Also, TDC with a correct timing pointer is critical. 1 or 2 degrees is also critical, and very destructive at any rpm but very evident at high rpm.Fuel line collapse I have seen with improper tank venting.On our latemodels we run a PVC valve in our vent line.(but I guess if this thing gets upside down you got bigger problems than fuel spill!!)Also,no vacum leaks?

[dirtracer1971]

You say it does not run on when you load the boat.Probably because you are far from wot in a marina.How long can you just tool around at low Rpm before this happens?Electrical components as far as getting hot have no idea about the concept of rpm.GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE ON IT

[Moneypitt]

You say it does not run on when you load the boat.Probably because you are far from wot in a marina.How long can you just tool around at low Rpm before this happens?Electrical components as far as getting hot have no idea about the concept of rpm.GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE ON IT
I disagree about ignition not having a concept of RPM. A coil is working alot faster, (hotter), at WOT than at an idle. The breakdown of ignition componants can be directly related to RPM based on "soak" time, (dwell)........MP

[cave]

I had the same problem years ago. Changed the distributor, coil, wires. Played with float positions added new floats, new off road float needles, triple checked the wiring. Then a guy at the lake said to me were is your water fuel separator. All the parts I replaced and it was a small amount of water in my fuel tanks. I drain the tanks, refueled and hit the lake. I have a water fuel separator that allows me to drain off the water from the bottom. All those times I washed the boat added to water in the fuel.
I spent allot of money before some one told me about this. Hope this is it for you. Ford or Chevy its all the same when water is in the gas.

[Dan Lorenze]

Sure sounds to me like a fuel delivery problem to me.

[dirtracer1971]

I disagree about ignition not having a concept of RPM. A coil is working alot faster, (hotter), at WOT than at an idle. The breakdown of ignition componants can be directly related to RPM based on "soak" time, (dwell)........MP
that makes good sense.I could see ignition systems causing a sputter,etc.But that would seemingly cause a rich condition?why does it "diesel"?which is indicitive of lean?

[Moneypitt]

that makes good sense.I could see ignition systems causing a sputter,etc.But that would seemingly cause a rich condition?why does it "diesel"?which is indicitive of lean?
Running on, or dieseling, was a common occurence back in the days of carbed engines and stuck chokes. the old q jets were famous for bad choke pull offs and the rich condition precluded the running on. If the cylinders are full of fuel running WOT, and you turn off the key it will sputter and fart for awhile before it actually quits. In this case it may be a combination of no spark, and weak spark, along with the fuel in the cylinders causing the dieseling. These kind of problems make me wish I were there to go through the process of elimination and nail it down......(I just started a motorhome that had been un able to start for a month, from 300 miles away, on the phone!!)......MP

[bradbigsley]

:) You say it does not run on when you load the boat.Probably because you are far from wot in a marina.How long can you just tool around at low Rpm before this happens?Electrical components as far as getting hot have no idea about the concept of rpm.GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE ON IT
if the boat is running fine on the trailer i.e. no load. i would suspect water in gas as well.. the very same thing happened to me.. forgot to change water seperator filter.. i think cave might have something here. easy fix. wont hurt to check as well..:)

[WET-N-WILD]

HERE WE GO…..I was waiting for the mechanic today at the local lake, engine cover off and all. The boat died after being on the water maybe 4 minutes. Bill (the ford mechanic) told me to leave the key on and let the boat die when the time comes. He was checking around the coil and ballast resister with a light tester, when he noticed that the ballast resister didn’t have power on both sides. So I turned the key off, and then re-fired the boat, and away we went again. He did say however that the clear glass fuel filter was pretty bubbly when we first took off but cleared right up. When the boat died it was full. So anyways, the second time running he was checking power at the resistor. When the boat died, we again only had power on one side. So then he asked me what the second wire on the + side of the coil was??? I said I didn’t know, so we tried to follow it and we think it goes to the starter relay, or starter solenoid?? You know, that thing fords have. So he disconnected it at the coil. I restarted the boat and off we went. I went around the lake 3 or four times, and it never died!!!!! We stopped and he put a new wire from the + side of the coil, to the solenoid. (Trying to see if the wire that was there was shorting out some where) We took off and the boat never died!! I then cruised around for 15 to 20 min. and never had another problem. Went back to shore, shot the shit for a ½ hour, then he left. So I loaded up the kids and off we went. We went out several different times, and all was well. THEN, the son of a bitch died AGAIN!!! I thought maybe I loaded it up in the slow zone. I restarted the boat, and we cruised around some more…went to shore…kicked back for a little while and went out again. This time it did not die. The second to the last time it died again. The last run it did not die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks
:(

[dirtracer1971]

ok moneypit, i'll shut the hell up now.Good calls on ignition!

[cave]

It sounds like your almost there. There has to be a wire that's loose or the connection is bad. I would recheck all the connections.

[WET-N-WILD]

It sounds like your almost there. There has to be a wire that's loose or the connection is bad. I would recheck all the connections.
That’s what I’m doing now. It’s hard not to get discouraged. I never had done this much to a boat (floor, interior, carpet, motor) Also, I'm surrounded by mechanically inclined people who can not figure it out. :mad: :mad:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WET-N-WILD]

I did buy the ignition and will at least give it a try for only 15 bux!:D

[cave]

There is a bright side. You now know your boat. The season is just starting.
I usually have small issues the 1st few times out. Hopefully this season will be different.:D

[WET-N-WILD]

There is a bright side. You now know your boat. The season is just starting.
I usually have small issues the 1st few times out. Hopefully this season will be different.:D
Ya....but I have spent the last two summers with problems. Two summers ago, the motor went, and last summer we couldnt get the new one to run!!!:mad:
We'll hopefully I get it soon this year.....Waiting for Moneypitt to repond and see what he thinks.
Thanks Cave :)

[Moneypitt]

OK, that 2nd wire to the solinoid is a ballast resistor by pass. That is 12V, or FULL battery voltage, to the coil while CRANKING only. (the mechanic should have known what the 2nd wire was for!!!!). The reasoning is that while cranking the battery voltage will be pulled down by the starter. IF the coil voltage is also reduced by the ballast resistor it may be too low to fire a cold, or hot, for that matter, engine. I don't think "that" wire was the problem because it is only used during cranking. The fact that the wiring around the coil was messed with and the problem went away, or at least acted different for awhile, says alot. You said the ballast resistor wasn't a complete circuit when the engine died, which I assume you meant there was voltage at the battery end, but none at the coil end.......Bingo!! You must have coil voltage (9-12V) to run. As to exactly why you don't, 1) bad ballast resistor or wrong impeadence. 2) that 2nd wire is shorted inside the solinoid.(I've seen this with GM solinoids) Leave the 2nd wire off the solinoind and see how it starts without it. If it starts OK, you don't need it. (don't let it ground/short out as it is hot if the coil is hot). Check igniyion system instructions and replace the ballast with the reccomended one.....I'd do the 2nd wire deal 1st, (free)...And see what you get. If that fails, go the ballast route, and if the problem is still in the picture after that, re wire the ignition circuit completly. If in fact, the ballast HAD current at the supply "in" side, and none at the other terminal to the coil, replace the ballast resistor... Oh and don't let the smoke from the new one scare you,:sqeyes: they all smoke when first hooked up..........MP

[WET-N-WILD]

The ballast resister that is in there is the new one that came in the same package with the new MSD coil. Maybe it could be bad ….ok. Where can I get a diagram for the wiring? I want to completely rewire it as you said. The boat has started the same all the times that we have started it, with the 2nd wire or with out. I will cut off the little eye, and tape up the extra wire and do with out it for now. I think I might have extra wires due to the factory electronic ignition that was on there before? I have a little yellow continuity tester if I can figure out how to use it then I will know what wire is what. That’s what I have to learn first due to the wires all go through conduit around the motor and through the hull. It’s hard to figure out what’s what. I’m confident that I have all the proper tools and supplies. I can’t remember what I have seen people put at one end of a wire and the other end to see if it’s the same wire. So the distributor determines the ballast resistor not the coil?
:D Thanks a lot MONEYPITT!!!!!!!:D

[Moneypitt]

The ballast resister that is in there is the new one that came in the same package with the new MSD coil. Maybe it could be bad ….ok. Where can I get a diagram for the wiring? I want to completely rewire it as you said. The boat has started the same all the times that we have started it, with the 2nd wire or with out. I will cut off the little eye, and tape up the extra wire and do with out it for now. I think I might have extra wires due to the factory electronic ignition that was on there before? I have a little yellow continuity tester if I can figure out how to use it then I will know what wire is what. That’s what I have to learn first due to the wires all go through conduit around the motor and through the hull. It’s hard to figure out what’s what. I’m confident that I have all the proper tools and supplies. I can’t remember what I have seen people put at one end of a wire and the other end to see if it’s the same wire. So the distributor determines the ballast resistor not the coil?
:D Thanks a lot MONEYPITT!!!!!!!:D
No, it is the coil, but everything has to be compatable. A complete re wire may not be necessary. You said something about all the other wiring.(electronic igntion) You need to clean up the "loose ends" so to speak. The coil wiring is quite simple. IF, and it is an IF, the 2nd wire was shorting inside the solinoid it could slowly overheat stuff until it fails. When you had a limited amount of success was that 2nd wire on or off? Boy, it sure seems to come back to that ballast. As I said, IF there was 12v at one end of the ballast and NONE at the other, that was/is the problem.(although there was a light used and not a voltmeter, so we really still don't know actual voltage numbers.) The fact that it is intermittent, and the construction of those resistors, heat could be the deciding factor. Ballast resistors DO get hot, thats what they do, they resist. If that one came with the coil it should be the right one. Is the porcelen cracked? Did it ever fail with the 2nd wire OFF?.......MP

[WET-N-WILD]

No, it is the coil, but everything has to be compatable. A complete re wire may not be necessary. You said something about all the other wiring.(electronic igntion) You need to clean up the "loose ends" so to speak. The coil wiring is quite simple. IF, and it is an IF, the 2nd wire was shorting inside the solinoid it could slowly overheat stuff until it fails. When you had a limited amount of success was that 2nd wire on or off? Boy, it sure seems to come back to that ballast. As I said, IF there was 12v at one end of the ballast and NONE at the other, that was/is the problem.(although there was a light used and not a voltmeter, so we really still don't know actual voltage numbers.) The fact that it is intermittent, and the construction of those resistors, heat could be the deciding factor. Ballast resistors DO get hot, thats what they do, they resist. If that one came with the coil it should be the right one. Is the porcelen cracked? Did it ever fail with the 2nd wire OFF?.......MP
I dont think its cracked but I will look it over really good. When the second wire was off, yes it failed, but it seem to only fail every other run out. There were times that we went for a run and it would not fail? Over the next 5 days, I willbe out here in the garage, installing new end on all the wires at the ignition and coil, and trying to find a wiring diagram to correctly reinstall wires in there proper place. What do you think about trying the new ignition? What about the fact that it wouldnt do this on the trailer, like when we broke the cams in? The reason I say cams, insted of cam is because I lost a cam and didnt know it for a little while so I got to go through the brake in process twice!! lol The boat ran for 28min on the trailer, and it only takes 4 min for it to die in the water? You think that maybe when its under a load it draws alot more?
Thanks!!

[Moneypitt]

Vibration could be a factor. Boats, believe it or not, vibrate the hell out of everything. I think you have narrowed it down to the ignition. Either the 12V supply, or the secondary coil connections. (secondary is after the coil has boosted the current into the 20-40K range). Coil wiring is simple. 12V to the ballast, ballast to the + side of the coil..... - side of coil to the dist. /and tach if so equiped. If the voltage was missing on the coil side of the ballast it will not run, period. OK,OK......Heres what you do. Make up a 16ga, jumper wire, clips on both ends, 3 feet should do it. Start the boat in the water. Hook a jumper from the + battery post to the input, (from the ignition switch) side of the ballast. Drive it around. IF it fails, hook the jumper to the + side of the coil, drive it around. (NOTE: with this jumper hooked up to either place the key WILL NOT TURN THE BOAT OFF, you'll have to pull the wire. At the + side you're only dealing with 12 V, so don't worry about getting zapped)...How did it work?? Yes, you don't want to run without the ballast in line for very long, just long enough to decide if it is the problem........Assuming it runs for awhile in #1 of these tests you have eliminated the ignition system as the problem and need to look to the boats wiring. If it fails in #1, but runs in #2, it is the ballast resistor.....period
And yes, the small wires on the coil terminals need to be clean, tight, neat connections. The secondary side (-) is delivering all the voltage to the distributor, 25Kplus!! And any dirt, moisture around that area can play hell with everything. Also, little wire whiskers can arc around, even to the large coil wire that goes to the center of the cap......Aint boating fun!!!.....MP

[CARLSON-JET]

WET-N-WILD, Another thing to consider is that although the wires may look good on the outside (insulation) there could be a break near the connections from vibration ect. Give all the wires a good tug to be sure they are not broken or install new connectors. This can cause intermittent ignition problems you are experiencing. Moneypitt's idea of a jumper wire is good. Also know that running the 12 volts for very long is not a good idea as it can cook the points pretty fast.

[SB]

Sure it could be the wires.
Could be your cooling water has a leak and is spraying water onto an electric component.
Most likely the problem is fuel, somewhere between your tank and carb, you have a problem.
How to rule out?
Get a 6 gallon outboard tank and run off that gas to see if the problem persists.
If so, clean out your tank and lines.

[WET-N-WILD]

Ok great. I actually think I understand! :D I will give you an update as soon as I take it out for a little run. Its going to rain tomorrow, so I might try to sneek off the job a little early on wednesday and hit the lake. If not, then for sure saturday.Thanks again MP for all you help, and everybody else!!

[WET-N-WILD]

Still have took it out. Its Been raining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad:

[minnesota_duane]

You might want to take a look at the wire from the condensor to the points to make sure it isn't touching anything. Make sure it doesn't have any bare spots.

[707-CREW]

You have to take the ford engine out and replace it with a chevy....This will fix the problem........just kidding...

[Hallett19]

Ditch the points! My 460 had a similar problem, it would run for a little bit, then die, even after I put in the petronix. It would start up shortly after, did this for over a year. One day I decided, "I'm going to replace everything that is old". So I did and MSD ignition and dist, all problems went away. Those old distributors and ballast resisters are garbage. Change them out, I have a good feeling this will solve your problem, it doesnt sound like fuel issues.

[WET-N-WILD]

Well I just bought this excel distributor......I took the damm thing out again with the mechanic and it didnt die at all!!!!!!! We ran it every which way but loose!!!!!! I feel like selling the 460 and installing a 454!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[Hallett19]

Well I just bought this excel distributor......I took the damm thing out again with the mechanic and it didnt die at all!!!!!!! We ran it every which way but loose!!!!!! I feel like selling the 460 and installing a 454!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:
You are upset that you didnt have the reoccuring problems?
Excel stuff sucks really really bad, if you are ever going to spend the money go MSD, get the distributor and ignition with the rev limiter, 6AL, that will fix any of your current ignition related problems.
Dont give up, Ford is way better than Chevy :jawdrop: Thats right, I said it!!

[e514jet]

I'm running a MSD 6AL ignition and a billet distributor. No problems at all on my 514. MSD also makes a "ready to run" distributor which has everything
in the distributor. A buddy of mine runs it on His 514. No problems at all. I would stay away from
a points ignition.
When doing electrical connections especially on marine applications i always
chrimp, solder and heatshrink the wires. :)

[wright27]

Well I just bought this excel distributor......I took the damm thing out again with the mechanic and it didnt die at all!!!!!!! We ran it every which way but loose!!!!!! I feel like selling the 460 and installing a 454!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:
I am confused, did it run good or bad? If I am reading this right you seem upset that it ran good.

[TAF]

You say it does not run on when you load the boat.Probably because you are far from wot in a marina.How long can you just tool around at low Rpm before this happens?Electrical components as far as getting hot have no idea about the concept of rpm.GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE ON IT
Sounds like the same problem Overkill had. He was running 5 - 6 pressure and had problems. I suggested bad gas or gunk in the lines. We went out and his gauge started showing 7.5 - 9 pressure and never had an issue after that. Thankfully the problem worked itself out.:idea: :D

[71tahiti]

my vote is ignition. Great info MP...:)

[wright27]

Years back I had a similar problem. Tried everything, turns out there was small piece of gasket in the float bowl. When the bowls were full it floated, but the level droped it would clog stoping the fuel. It may be along shot but it sounds like you have tried everything else.

[WET-N-WILD]

lol!!!!!!! Well I was upset because I had a good mechanic with me. He was starting to get confused though. He was telling me that when we stopped out in the middel of the lake and shut it down....my balust resistor was not dropping the volts(yes I turned the key on). He brought another ballust resistor, we tried it and sme thing. I asked him.....shouldnt that fry my points and he said "Ya", but it hasnt. I was kinda hoping that it would die so we could try to fix it. I dont think it was hot enough outside......high 70,s. My gut tells me that as soon as it gets hot, it will start as it has for the last summer in a half!!!!!!! I have already replaced everything on the motor...distributor....wires....batt cables...carb.....checked bowl levels.....and things like that. Installig a msd right now I dont think would fix my prob. I need to continue working on the things that mp suggested, and hopefully find it. Hard to get hands on help : Thanks to every body...I read all!!:D

[Hallett19]

When doing electrical connections especially on marine applications i always
chrimp, solder and heatshrink the wires. :)
Its the only way to fly!
If you eliminate all of that junk (ballst resister, etc.) you will be in better shape, at lease that will eliminate 1 more thing. Same thing with me, i knocked out everything I could, put and MSD dist with a 6AL box and it has been running fine ever since (2 years).... knock on wood.

[jstapplayer2003]

i had sorta the same situation i had a bad ballist i also regapped the points problem was solved

[WET-N-WILD]

i had sorta the same situation i had a bad ballist i also regapped the points problem was solved
Regaped and it was gone huh?? I'll check them out. Thanks for the info.:D

[1mysticowner]

Check the fuel line from the tank to the pump. Mine died a few years ago much like yours. The fuel line had some age on it and it was being sucked shut under high RPM's.
If you put on a HP fuel pump it will just make the fuel line collapse issue worse. It seems you have covered every other possibility of fuel starvation.
I hope this helps.
Dave

[WET-N-WILD]

Check the fuel line from the tank to the pump. Mine died a few years ago much like yours. The fuel line had some age on it and it was being sucked shut under high RPM's.
If you put on a HP fuel pump it will just make the fuel line collapse issue worse. It seems you have covered every other possibility of fuel starvation.
I hope this helps.
Dave
Ok, thanks Dave:)

[WET-N-WILD]

Hey Moneypit!! It shoulb be like 90 degress on Sat. I will let you know if I get to go to the water!!!:D

[SUCKMYWAKE]

WET-N-WILD What lake do you usually go to? I just moved to Visalia and I am looking for some good places to go. good luck on the trouble shooting
Thanks

[WET-N-WILD]

WET-N-WILD What lake do you usually go to? I just moved to Visalia and I am looking for some good places to go. good luck on the trouble shooting
Thanks
Most of the time we go to Modesto Res. We like Don Pedro the best but never seem to have the boat running good enough for such a big lake. Modesto Res. is very small and not deep, makes it easy for braking down...lol Both would be a big trip from where you are. There are some nice lakes up east of Fresno. Don Pedro is well worth the drive though.....Very Big!! Hope this helps, C-Ya:D

[RENEGADE]

Yea, Don Pedro all the way.:D

[TAF]

I have a couple of friends that had similar issues. I'd like to know what it finally was.:) :D

[WET-N-WILD]

I have a couple of friends that had similar issues. I'd like to know what it finally was.:) :D
Ya I want to know also...lol You know its getting stranger now. We took it to Don Pedro yesterday and didnt have a single problem with it. I pulled the 3 seater tube around for over an hour...pulled people on the wake board....and we cruised around..no dieing or any thing :confused: . Don Pedro for those who dont know is a very big lake and to go any where is a good run. We went to a smaller lake two weekends ago, and didnt have any problems either. The one thing that is bothering me is I still feel like its going to die when the heat really starts. It hasnt been real hot here and I remember having more problems when its hotter. It was in the low 80'sd
yestersday, and two weekends ago it was in the upper 80's.
I will keep every one up to date as we enter the real heat of the year and of course I'm very thankful for all the support.
Jeff :D

[WET-N-WILD]

Still hasnt died!! We went for another long run @ Don Pedro, Every thing went great!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[OverKill]

Use 100LL AV gas.

[suckin&pumpin]

I had a similar problem last season, turned out when it got choppy my back seat was a little loose and pushed the belt cover against the boot of the coil wire at the coil. I would sputter and barely run or just flat out die then restart and run great, moved seat 1" forward, problem fixed.

[WET-N-WILD]

Thanks guys.............

[firstjetinMN]

Thanks guys.............
I am having the exact same issue !!! ANy idea ?
Here is some background on my issue
I had my boat out today and it ran beautifully.......except after it warmed up ? It would then die.......Let it cool down then fire it up and it runs well again for about 10 minutes.....
No sputtering or anything when crusing along, suddenly the engine simply shuts off as though the key was shut off ?
I checked for loose wires, replaced the fuel filter and located the coil and ballast resister further away from the engine ....... I am thinking electrical ? The ballast resiter gets hot as hell? But maybe that is normal ?
Coil wires are all tight, engine starts up fine and has excellent power? What gives ?
Oil was 50 PSI the whole time, maybe 70 on initial start up.....Engine temp was about 140, which I know is on the low side......
Sounds like the coil breaking down to me. I had a '68 Fairlane with a 289 in it do that to me once. Start it up, run fine for a few blocks & then just *kaput*.... Coast off over to the side, wait a few minutes & it would start back up just fine. Run long enough to make a few blocks & then quit again....
Don't know if there are any tricks to checking a coil or not. Take it to a parts place, they can probably check it for free....
Yeah I don't think it is a fuel issue because it shuts down clean (by its own choice)....no sputtering, no dieseling, no trying to keep running.... It shuts down clean as hell like I simply shut off the key ? Fuel gauge shows a solid and steady 7 psi.....I have completly new lines from the tanks all the way to the carb....so no collapsed lines....and when it dies the fuel in the carb bowl windows is the same as when it is running. The gas in the tanks was literally put in there this morning.....so it is fresh to say the least.....and I just replaced the fuel filter within the last few hours... The carb was completly rebuilt and cleaned by a very reputable carb shop....the guy said the carb was in great shape and that I would just need to adjust the idle when I first ran the boat...... THe boat idles like a dream and has zero hesitation when you step on the gas....
If anyone disagrees and thinks it is a fuel issue just tell me so.....
I agree about the coil.....starting out cold runs like a mad man......Then when it warms up it mysteriously dies ? Just sit for like one minute and then it starts back up and runs enough to get back to shore......Let is sit for 20 minutes and it runs fine again for 10 minutes?
I checked all of my connectors and wires and there are no breaks or splits in any of the wires? Freaking Mallory coil is a pile of Junk....
I have Unilite guts in my mallory distributer, What options do I have for a replacement coil ? The lake was smooth and there were no waves jostling anything........So nothing was getting bumped around or anything either...
Can NAPA test my coil ?

[Titan7]

My friend's boat was doing the same thing, Ford 460. Replaced the coil and it been perfect since then.

[firstjetinMN]

My friend's boat was doing the same thing, Ford 460. Replaced the coil and it been perfect since then.
Replaced the coil huh ? Hmmmmm I am about to pull the trigger on that idea real quick as I am running out of trouble shooting ideas...
Wet-nwild's gremlin jumped onto my boat now!

[Titan7]

We have a buddy who has a ton of experience with Fords, he told us that when the coil is cool it was allowing the motor to run, once the coil heated up (5-15 mins) of running the motor would act like it was missing, and then it would die. We could not get the boat to run again until after 20-40 mins passed. We tried everything you did with no luck, our buddy called and said replace the coil. Since we were out of ideas we drove into Blythe the next moring and picked up a new coil. Put it on and we drove the boat all day with no issues. YMMV
Good luck!

[SBC Jetboat]

Points are just like quadrajets- throw em in the trash ASAP. I like my HEI. :D

[Sleeper CP]

Had the coil problem before with my old Southwind. Replaced the coil worked fine for several weeks. Started dying again one weekend, Alt wasn't charging fully, the belt was slipping as wasn't putting out full charge, ran battery down and drained system.
Sleeper CP