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Pro Max
03-13-2007, 07:57 PM
Is it woth it ? Hell there is not much you can do to a HO besides pipes and that. i got the pipes and want more. Who has it and are you happy ? Big difference ? Its allmost 10K installed. Or should I just wait to get a whole new motor. Thanks for your feedback
S

vmjtc3
03-13-2007, 08:00 PM
This should be good:rolleyes:

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 08:02 PM
I'd just wait for a new engine--Peto and many others have replacements that start reasonably priced and you'll be happier in the long run I'd bet.
Don't forget when you go there you'll need to add hyd steering if you don't already have it.

shadow
03-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Is it woth it ? Hell there is not much you can do to a HO besides pipes and that. i got the pipes and want more. Who has it and are you happy ? Big difference ? Its allmost 10K installed. Or should I just wait to get a whole new motor. Thanks for your feedback
S
I'm running the Raylar system on my boat and Raylar has lived up to everything promised,gained 100 hp and been turn key.
10k is alot of $$ to spend only you can answer that question.there are plenty of alternatives if you sell you motor and put the 10k with that money to repower or add the Raylar.
Chris at Prestige just installed a Raylar on a Cobra and was quite happy,you may want to call him for his opinion (Chris Prestige 928-680-3344).
there will be alot of ney sayers but i'd say get the opinions from people that actually have the Raylar insatlled.
Good luck either way you go.

phebus
03-13-2007, 08:06 PM
I have watched the Raylar package since it first came on the market, and I would say that for someone that already has a 496, it's an excellent upgrade.

Kachina26
03-13-2007, 08:31 PM
I picked up 10mph, and it takes much HP to move that Kachina. Now that I'm not busting nuts anymore (fingers still crossed 20 hours later), I like it. There were issues getting parts in a timely manner in the early days, I don't know if all that has been hammered out yet, the guys who have done it more recently could help you there.

INSman
03-13-2007, 08:33 PM
I have watched the Raylar package since it first came on the market, and I would say that for someone that already has a 496, it's an excellent upgrade.
Yup, I concur.... Only 1 rocker nut issue but otherwise perfecly reliable.

Kilrtoy
03-13-2007, 08:39 PM
This should be good:rolleyes:
You beat me to it

Havasu1986
03-13-2007, 08:45 PM
You beat me to it
Only by 39 minutes.:D

beaverretriever
03-13-2007, 08:49 PM
Gaydar?
Oh, Raylar...I'm sorry... No, don't know much about that kit.. Heard some good things though. Oh, and some bad things.. Sorry, I'm not much help. It is amazing that 10k+ only gets you 100hp, huh?

Kilrtoy
03-13-2007, 08:53 PM
Only by 39 minutes.:D
That is my 10K times,
ok maybe 20 years ago.....

HavasuSelect
03-13-2007, 08:59 PM
I picked up 10mph, and it takes much HP to move that Kachina. Now that I'm not busting nuts anymore (fingers still crossed 20 hours later), I like it. There were issues getting parts in a timely manner in the early days, I don't know if all that has been hammered out yet, the guys who have done it more recently could help you there.
Did you pay 10K as well? 10k for 10 mph?

shadow
03-13-2007, 09:02 PM
I know my set up was no where near 10K.
I think the cost is more around 6k.Plus install if you can't do it yourself.

HavasuSelect
03-13-2007, 09:07 PM
I know my set up was no where near 10K.
I think the cost is more around 6k.Plus install if you can't do it yourself.
I didn't factor in hull design either. That price isn't too bad for 100 horse.

shadow
03-13-2007, 09:14 PM
I didn't factor in hull design either. That price isn't too bad for 100 horse.
I think it's a good option for someone that already has a 496,Don't think it would be an option if building a new boat to order it with a 496 with plans on the raylar.
But there are only so many options for the people with a 496 and want to gain alittle more.
I picked up 10mph,i know Focker picked up like 15mph but he started with the mag not the HO went from 375hp to 500hp.decent gains for the money.

phebus
03-13-2007, 09:29 PM
Did you pay 10K as well? 10k for 10 mph?
Just for comparison sake, what is the cost difference from a 496HO to a 525? Whats approx 100hp cost from Mercury?
Now, if you already have the 496, the 10k option might not be so bad.

HavasuSelect
03-13-2007, 09:33 PM
Just for comparison sake, what is the cost difference from a 496HO to a 525? Whats approx 100hp cost from Mercury?
Now, if you already have the 496, the 10k option might not be so bad.
Excellent point. I didn't look at it that way.

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 09:43 PM
Just for comparison sake, what is the cost difference from a 496HO to a 525? Whats approx 100hp cost from Mercury?
Now, if you already have the 496, the 10k option might not be so bad.
100HP from Merc costs quite a bit...don't forget in the difference between the HO package price and the 525 you also upgrade to the XR drive and the header type exhaust, there is a lot of dough just in the drive and exhaust

Focker
03-13-2007, 09:50 PM
I'd just wait for a new engine--Peto and many others have replacements that start reasonably priced and you'll be happier in the long run I'd bet.
Don't forget when you go there you'll need to add hyd steering if you don't already have it.
FOCK U
AFTER THE TIME AND MONEY INVESTED ON YOUR ADVICE YOU POST THIS COMMENT

Focker
03-13-2007, 09:53 PM
Put The Raylar In
I Had A 496 Mag And Went From 52 To 72 Gps And Cudmore Will Tell U I Dont Lie
Other Note
Ray' S Integrity Is Awesome

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-13-2007, 09:55 PM
I love my blue

Focker
03-13-2007, 09:56 PM
I love my blue
YO

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 09:58 PM
Put The Raylar In
I Had A 496 Mag And Went From 52 To 72 Gps And Cudmore Will Tell U I Dont Lie
Other Note
Ray' S Integrity Is Awesome
true--he doesn't lie :D
maybe this year he will even use the boat for a change :D
Spent all that money on the upgrade (on my advice as stated) and the damn thing has been in his garage for 2 years :eek: :devil:

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-13-2007, 09:59 PM
YO
what up,

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 10:00 PM
FOCK U
AFTER THE TIME AND MONEY INVESTED ON YOUR ADVICE YOU POST THIS COMMENT
damn straight--I had this one boating buddy that did the upgrade and then stopped coming to the river...I didn't want that to happen to anybody else :D Nothing against the kit in this case your honor :D

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-13-2007, 10:02 PM
Yup, I concur.... Only 1 rocker nut issue but otherwise perfecly reliable.
so what are you getting out of that rig

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 10:07 PM
so what are you getting out of that rig
come on Mel--you know that info is sealed tighter than a mormon teenager--woops better apologize for that one up front...
lol, I think its classified. All I know is I can take it with my blenders :D :D

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-13-2007, 10:11 PM
come on Mel--you know that info is sealed tighter than a mormon teenager--woops better apologize for that one up front...
lol, I think its classified. All I know is I can take it with my blenders :D :D
maybe I will find out at the Poker Run, I have had alittle work done on the blue motors ;)

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 10:22 PM
maybe I will find out at the Poker Run, I have had alittle work done on the blue motors ;)
I don't see INSMAN on the poker run entry list anywhere...

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-13-2007, 10:24 PM
I don't see INSMAN on the poker run entry list anywhere...
mmmmm well I am not on there either LMAO :D

Focker
03-13-2007, 10:26 PM
Wait I Can Answer Your Questions
Blane Has Been So Busy Coordinating The Rhino 02/17/06 Run He Forgot About The Lake :d

Focker
03-13-2007, 10:27 PM
what up,
BUSY 4 MORE WEEKS AND I GET MY LIFE BACK
SEE YA SOON

Focker
03-13-2007, 10:28 PM
damn straight--I had this one boating buddy that did the upgrade and then stopped coming to the river...I didn't want that to happen to anybody else :D Nothing against the kit in this case your honor :D
U R FUNNY
TAXES?????????????????

dicudmore
03-13-2007, 10:35 PM
U R FUNNY
TAXES?????????????????
still tracking down that one last document for you sir :D

Kilrtoy
03-13-2007, 10:53 PM
FOCK U
AFTER THE TIME AND MONEY INVESTED ON YOUR ADVICE YOU POST THIS COMMENT
OUCH, but I agree, DAN used to be the bigest cheerleader

SHOTKALLIN
03-13-2007, 11:08 PM
I was under the impression that you could only go Raylar from the H.O. Is the conversion from the MAg the same kit? How much more is involved and how much cash?

Psycho Squid
03-13-2007, 11:57 PM
10K for a HUNDRED HORSES AYFKM :( I've had the miss pleasure of cleaning up several rylar packages. I have seen head gaskets as thick as coke bottles to try and back compression down for pro-charger kits. Nothing like a 10 to 1 motor then add a pro-charger on pump gas then watch it det-on-ate. Guess it's not all rylar the 496........Sucks any how. Guess I'm kinda harsh but I Just tell it how it is or well how I see it. MY $.02

INSman
03-14-2007, 06:19 AM
I was under the impression that you could only go Raylar from the H.O. Is the conversion from the MAg the same kit? How much more is involved and how much cash?
You can do it from a Mag, just have to get your hands on an HO ECM, but Ray probably has that covered by now as well.

INSman
03-14-2007, 06:22 AM
so what are you getting out of that rig
I don't really know to be honest with you as we never got to do much prop testing, but it has seen low 90's. I never drive that fast anyway as I literally always have the girls on board. The boat loves the low 80's at extreme comfort.

Not So Fast
03-14-2007, 07:32 AM
I went blue for obvious reasons, just in case i want to improve a little later on then the internals are the right ones and not such a weak point. After selling my HO the cost was not so bad. I couldnt believe all of the crap Merc has hanging on the 496 compared to a blue motor. Do your research then decide. Good luck, NSF

Baja Big Dog
03-14-2007, 07:38 AM
10K for a HUNDRED HORSES AYFKM :( I've had the miss pleasure of cleaning up several rylar packages. I have seen head gaskets as thick as coke bottles to try and back compression down for pro-charger kits. Nothing like a 10 to 1 motor then add a pro-charger on pump gas then watch it det-on-ate. Guess it's not all rylar the 496........Sucks any how. Guess I'm kinda harsh but I Just tell it how it is or well how I see it. MY $.02
Supercharger and high compression?????
Tell me more.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like 3/4 plywood headgaskets would do fine.

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-14-2007, 07:44 AM
I don't really know to be honest with you as we never got to do much prop testing, but it has seen low 90's. I never drive that fast anyway as I literally always have the girls on board. The boat loves the low 80's at extreme comfort.
I can understand that

Havasu_Dreamin
03-14-2007, 07:56 AM
If I had a 496 I'd give Larry Peto a look as well.....

One Particular Harbor
03-14-2007, 08:39 AM
From my experience, the typical 496HO owner is running a Bravo 1/1x outdrive with no external steering.
So, assuming you are mechanically disinclined (which I am) and cannot do your own install...
Raylar Package - $6,000
XR Lower & External Steering - $5,000
Install - $4,000
Aren't you really talking about ~$15,000 for the upgrade?
I am assuming the extra HP/torque is going to do in a Bravo 1/1x drive and that, as you approach 80 mph, external steering isn't really an option. Correct?
Thanks,
OPH

SHOTKALLIN
03-14-2007, 10:07 AM
Cheetah's new site lists the 525/xr upgrade as $16,500.
http://www.cheetahboats.net/id5.html
I have seen this offered as high as 22K:rolleyes:

shadow
03-14-2007, 10:57 AM
From my experience, the typical 496HO owner is running a Bravo 1/1x outdrive with no external steering.
So, assuming you are mechanically disinclined (which I am) and cannot do your own install...
Raylar Package - $6,000
XR Lower & External Steering - $5,000
Install - $4,000
Aren't you really talking about ~$15,000 for the upgrade?
I am assuming the extra HP/torque is going to do in a Bravo 1/1x drive and that, as you approach 80 mph, external steering isn't really an option. Correct?
Thanks,
OPH
Good point to add in $$ eternal steering & $$ drive upgrade.
Keep in mind i'm not saying Raylar is the best or only way to go as there are many different routes a person could choose now a days,each individual has to decide what suites thier needs and checkbook.
I do belive that going with any upgrade or repower you would have to factor in the cost of Drive up grades,external steering,& install.
so back to the cost i do belive the base cost of the Raylar is around 6k,then of course you have to factor in the other upgrades and install.
I think a Peto,Phaff,Teauge,or any other reputable engine builder would be 3 to 4 times the cost of a 6k bolt on 100hp Raylar.
For the folks that have that kind of $$ i don't think the 496 and Raylar apply,sure alot say i'd just go buy the cubic inches from such & such and throw that in.
But how often do you actually see that?The ballers can afford it the first time around.

One Particular Harbor
03-14-2007, 11:09 AM
From what I have read, barring a couple of early issues, the Raylar kit sounds like a good upgrade for the 496HO and would seem to provide the kind of performance increase that a lot of us would be looking for.
All I was asking was whether $15,000 was a reasonably ballpark figure for the entire package, including drive modifications.
Shadow, you've been through the process...did you have an XR drive already? I believe I read somewhere that you are seeing around 80mph on the top end...did you add external steering?
I am definitely interested and would like to see another 8-10 mph out of my Shockwave, but I also don't want to lose the reliability and turn-key performance of my 496HO (so maybe I am asking too much).
A blue motor would also be a definite option, but can you get there for anywhere near $15,000? And, I think I would still be looking at the drive upgrade and external steering costs.
Thanks,
OPH

shadow
03-14-2007, 11:20 AM
Not taken as an attack at all.:)
My drive had issues before the raylar so the answer is yes while repairing/rebuilding i had XR gears installed and no i haven't added external steering.
My set up has been reliable turn key and many many hrs of use.Gained about 10mph and great mid range.
When we built our boat i would have loved to upgrade to a blue motor but funds didn't allow at the time.We were in a situation where we could afford to shell out a few thousand but not 10-15 or more.Luckily i was hands on and saved a big chunck of $$ or i may still be running a stock 496.
You can definatley find Blue motors out there for sale and sell off yours and put the $$ towards that route.
Thats the nice thing there are so many options it's just amounts to $$.
Shit mine could take a dump tomorrow,sure hope not but thats the chance you take.
Good luck with whatever option you decide and i hope it works well for you,thats all that matters.:)

Hotcobra270
03-14-2007, 11:32 AM
Sounds like us with the 496HO cant really get much HP (100 hp more) for about 8k total with all the extra items that we would need to make the system safe and reliable long term... Really sucks that the 496HO doesnt handle a supercharger reliably at more than 3 or 3.5 boost.
I think I'm just going to go with the Dana exhaust/hearders and call it a day.

DMOORE
03-14-2007, 11:51 AM
I think ONE PARTICULAR HARBOR said it right. With the engine upgrade, regardless of the route you would go, the steering has to be done. 80MPH in a big boat without external power steering just isn't safe. Add the drive upgrades and the price goes up real fast. Like the old saying, better safe than sorry, especially with others onboard.
Darrell.

Havasu_Dreamin
03-14-2007, 12:35 PM
I think a Peto,Phaff,Teauge,or any other reputable engine builder would be 3 to 4 times the cost of a 6k bolt on 100hp Raylar.
I keep hearing that Peto's package to upgrde the 496 is ~$15k.....Not sure what that includes.....

Havasu_Dreamin
03-14-2007, 12:40 PM
I think ONE PARTICULAR HARBOR said it right. With the engine upgrade, regardless of the route you would go, the steering has to be done.
Having driven a 21 footer with a 350 MAG and 29 footer with a 525, both with no external steering and a 26 foot cat and a 28 foot deck both with external steering.....I'll take external steering all-day, even if the boat won't consistently reach the speeds that require it.....The feel of the steering is just so much better.....

DMOORE
03-14-2007, 12:51 PM
Having driven a 21 footer with a 350 MAG and 29 footer with a 525, both with no external steering and a 26 foot cat and a 28 foot deck both with external steering.....I'll take external steering all-day, even if the boat won't consistently reach the speeds that require it.....The feel of the steering is just so much better.....
And a lot safer also.
Darrell.

shadow
03-14-2007, 01:56 PM
Having driven a 21 footer with a 350 MAG and 29 footer with a 525, both with no external steering and a 26 foot cat and a 28 foot deck both with external steering.....I'll take external steering all-day, even if the boat won't consistently reach the speeds that require it.....The feel of the steering is just so much better.....
Agreed Scott!,I won't own another boat without it.I won't invest any more $$
intot his boat cause we are only keeping thru this season.
Along with the saftey factor(never seen failure without) you've got the wear on the gimble that takes it's toll.;)

Beer-30
03-14-2007, 02:34 PM
I try my best not to go backwards.
Going from a Gen-VII back to a Gen-VI or older variety - for a family boat - seems the wrong way to go.
GM spends millions doing R&D before tooling up. They dropped the ball on the pistons, but hey - who's perfect?
Sequential EFI (cam and crank sensors), distributorless ignition, replicated ports, closed cooling, and improved oiling are all things to be taken very seriously for a lake boat. And yes, you can do all of this to previous Gen's, but why? When you already have it and have paid for it.
I see it like going from a Duramax (496) back to a 6.5TD (502). Ok, the percentage of improvements between the old 6.5 and the Dmax is significanly higher, but you get my meaning.
Arizona Speed & Marine also has an intake for the 496, as well as other internals. They have been CNC porting the heads and getting an easy 525 hp. Plus, their intake comes with a new MEFI ECM that is user-programmable.
JE and Mahle both make pistons, as well as probably several others.
In my opinion, it is wiser to move forward with the latest tech than go backwards to older tech.

Havasu_Dreamin
03-14-2007, 02:45 PM
Agreed Scott!,I won't own another boat without it.I won't invest any more $$
intot his boat cause we are only keeping thru this season.
Sweet! Be sure and let us see the gel design of the new ride first so we can make some more t-shirts with your boat on the them. :D :)

Pro Max
03-14-2007, 02:58 PM
WOW thats a lot of mixed feeling but thanks, anyhow the 10K I refered to included the stearing.
Thanks Guys

shadow
03-14-2007, 04:38 PM
WOW thats a lot of mixed feeling but thanks, anyhow the 10K I refered to included the stearing.
Thanks Guys
Best of luck to you with whatever route you choose.:)

Focker
03-14-2007, 08:28 PM
U CAN GET THIS WHOLE SETIUP DONE FOR JUST THE COST OF THE RAYLAR AND THE EXTERNAL STEERING. JUST HAVE EVERYTHING DELIVERED TO DARRRYLS HOUSE ON A FRIDAY AND WITH HIS CC&R'S HE'LL HAVE IT DONE AND OUT OF HIS DRIVEWAY BY SUNDAY :)

phebus
03-14-2007, 08:41 PM
U CAN GET THIS WHOLE SETIUP DONE FOR JUST THE COST OF THE RAYLAR AND THE EXTERNAL STEERING. JUST HAVE EVERYTHING DELIVERED TO DARRRYLS HOUSE ON A FRIDAY AND WITH HIS CC&R'S HE'LL HAVE IT DONE AND OUT OF HIS DRIVEWAY BY SUNDAY :)
LOL:) :D :) And don't forget the Goose and Rockstar

rvrhlic
03-15-2007, 03:54 PM
Is it woth it ? Hell there is not much you can do to a HO besides pipes and that. i got the pipes and want more. Who has it and are you happy ? Big difference ? Its allmost 10K installed. Or should I just wait to get a whole new motor. Thanks for your feedback
S
umm... personally I would just get a new engine (which I had to do after installing the raylar kit).

Beer-30
03-15-2007, 04:10 PM
Oh boy. :rolleyes: :sleeping:
Not ANOTHER game of "Where's the piston?"

Kilrtoy
03-15-2007, 05:25 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how people always want to upgrade after they realize they F U C K E D UP....
STOP BEING CHEAP AND DO IT RIGHT FROM THE START.
Buy the biggest engine you can afford and then go one bigger

dicudmore
03-15-2007, 05:35 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how people always want to upgrade after they realize they F U C K E D UP....
STOP BEING CHEAP AND DO IT RIGHT FROM THE START.
Buy the biggest engine you can afford and then go one bigger
little late to say after the boats built :devil: I do agree though--spend the dough once...and buy 2 steps up from what you can afford!

dicudmore
03-15-2007, 05:37 PM
Oh boy. :rolleyes: :sleeping:
Not ANOTHER game of "Where's the piston?"
at the end of the connecting rod of course :D
as for the failure in KC's case--I am pleading the fifth...all I know to be facts are that the motor had issues and he didn't go boating for a long time...

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
03-15-2007, 05:41 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how people always want to upgrade after they realize they F U C K E D UP....
STOP BEING CHEAP AND DO IT RIGHT FROM THE START.
Buy the biggest engine you can afford and then go one bigger
;)

Focker
03-15-2007, 09:34 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how people always want to upgrade after they realize they F U C K E D UP....
STOP BEING CHEAP AND DO IT RIGHT FROM THE START.
Buy the biggest engine you can afford and then go one bigger
U SHOULD BE A FOCKEN MULIT BILLIONAIRE WITH ALL YOUR INSIGHT:D

INSman
03-16-2007, 06:43 AM
U SHOULD BE A FOCKEN MULIT BILLIONAIRE WITH ALL YOUR INSIGHT:D
Multi or Mulit ??!!?? :idea: :D

phebus
03-16-2007, 06:51 AM
That would be mullet. Business in the front, party in the rear. :D