Subprime Lenders - Doom and Gloom to come?

[DCBDaytona]

I hope that nobody on here worked for New Century Financial..And if so, I'll be happy to take your boat off your hands! For all the R/E optimists out there who are living in a bubble...what are you opinions of the recent fall out of sub prime lenders? First if New Century, next is Accredited, then Fremont. Hell, even Countrywide is getting killed. Seems like us REALISTS were correct again. I sure hope some people in the business have some cash stored away!:(

[Deano]

I'm glad I got out of my property when I did. Damn shame, everyone I know works in the industry......does your dad work in the industry:D I want his boat.;)

[DCBDaytona]

I'm glad I got out of my property when I did. Damn shame, everyone I know works in the industry......does your dad work in the industry:D I want his boat.;)
No sir...but he's in the foreclosure buying business. Hog Heaven here we come!

[rivercrazy]

In my opinion, the subprime lender shakedown is a healthy correction for the long term health of the R/E market and the economy in general. Now maybe peeps will live within their means.
And the fallout will not be as bad or last as long versus all the doom and gloom predictions

[reDECKulous]

some people's ignorance is amazing...

[Dominator Scott]

I am a mortgage broker and I can tell you first hand that things are tough right now. I saw this coming last year and that is why I sold my 89 Camaro RS and my 73 Camaro SS. Figured I would get my bills to minimum and prepare myself.
Things are still tight but with unloading those 2 cars for a very healthy amount of money,paying off some debts with the proceeds I cleared from the sales and not having pay $500 a month in child support as of last August really helped. The wifes car will be paid off in 7 months and my truck will be paid off in 14 months and we have no intensions of upgrading our vehicles for quite a while.
The realestate market will rebound again. It always does,but making absolute stupid $$$$$ like me and everyone else in this industry did for 5-6 years straight is over for a while. All you can do is dig in your heels and ride out the storm. I have already decided that if money is still tight this summer,and gas goes through the roof again,my 32 Dominator will just be a garage queen and will get very little use. But I won't sell it.

[Magic]

The stoppage of Sub-Prime loans came about 3 years too late in my opinion. You knew there was something wrong when the Clerk at your local WalMart is living in a brand new Beachfront House. These non-doc/sub-prime loans drove the market way beyond normal price appreciations, and now all the people with these loans will not be able to refi with a sub-prime loan. My guess is there will be a Tsunami of foreclosures in the next 18 months way beyond the record numbers we are seeing today.

[Dominator Scott]

In my opinion, the subprime lender shakedown is a healthy correction for the long term health of the R/E market and the economy in general. Now maybe peeps will live within their means.
And the fallout will not be as bad or last as long versus all the doom and gloom predictions
Exactly. The nice thing about what is happening right now with lenders and realestate is thousands of mortgage broker offices have closed up shop and are gone which makes the competition less fierce. I have been doing this for 9 years and almost ALL of my business is repeat or referral customers so I feel as long as I use my head and keep in contact with my clients for business,I will make it through. But man does it SUCK not being able to go spend happy on the boat.:(

[rivercrazy]

Inappropriate financing is what caused this situation to occur in the first place.
No doc loans, intererst only financing for people that could not afford amortization, little or no down payments, etc.
All these programs do is cause a temporary artifical inflation in R/E values (and toys too!) and seriously hurt the people that signed up for these programs in the first place.

[C-2]

People are still delusional and in denial. They think hey, it’s subprime and I’m on HB – so it won’t affect me.
With the possibility of 1 in 20 homes going into foreclosure, how many is that in your neighborhood? When homes start selling for 20-30% les than what you paid – people will start to take notice.

[Dominator Scott]

Inappropriate financing is what caused this situation to occur in the first place.
No doc loans, intererst only financing for people that could not afford amortization, little or no down payments, etc.
All these programs do is cause a temporary artifical inflation in R/E values (and toys too!) and seriously hurt the people that signed up for these programs in the first place.
I only have done 2 interest only or "option arm" loans for clients,and told them both it was against my better judgement. I wasn't going to refuse them and have some other putz get my clients. But I have since refinanced both of them into 30 year fixed loans which is what I recommended in the first place.

[MAF]

Alot of home buyers who purchased in the last two or three years are in a world of hurt. Many of these home owners currently carry seconds which they prchased toy haulers, trucks, boats & went on large vacations,this spending is what stimulated the economy. Defaults are at a high along with foreclosures. I see a recesion on its way:( I will be upgrading my boat next year!:D

[sdpm]

The only thing that might help out this problem is to drop interest rates. This will slow all of this down and help get things moving again IMO. With the rising cost of fuel, people need to see something positive. Lowering rates, people will start buying, refi'ing, and construction will once again pick-up.

[JB in so cal]

Interest-only loans are not, by themselves, a bad thing.
If I wanted to sell my home of 12 years, put $400k down on a larger home, the interest-only loan would lower my payment substantially. Not applying $200 to the principal every month wouldn't break me.
Am I missing something, here?:idea:

[essexjet]

As of now it is only affecting the sub-prime marketing and had a positive effect to the conforming side as interest rate fell since middle of last week. Majority of the non-prime lenders have changed a lot of their lending guidelines and on of the largest WMC does not lend to anyone under 600 credit score as of last Thursday where before they went down to 500. Are we going to see values go down do to all of the foreclosures on the market, Yes. Analysis are saying this is as big as the S&L scandals in the early 1990's and did we recover from that, Yes.

[socalmofo]

I love reading the opinions on ***boat, they are great. 99% of them are based up the last article they read on the latimes website and really have no first hand experience.
I could care less if all the Subprime borrowers went away! If you have less than a 600 score you don't deserve to buy a house. And if your stupid enough to take a pay option or a pick-a-pay loan you deserve a foreclosure.
Sub-Prime lending is NOT gonna just SHUT DOWN. If these banks all close then others will open, too much money to be made.
I am a broker and had my best year ever last year and doubled sales, and income. Bottom line, real estate isn't gonna shut down, people will always be buying, selling, and refinancing. Maybe not as much as the last 5 years.
Maybe I am being optimistic but I just don't see a 25% drop in prices from where they are now. I could be wrong, But then again I own a home and I'm not hoping for prices to drop So I can move out of my apartment and finally get a home.

[cjordan]

I look at the I/O and Arm vs fixed market like this...What do Banks do? They Borrow short (C/D's, floating rate debt, etc) and LEND (30yr mtg, etc) long...obviously making the spread. 30yr Fixed makes people fell good about all sorts of things, but it costs money for that "security", nothing is for free. I would rather do I/O at same or lower rate...and pay down my principal faster with the payment savings (many times it can be much faster than an amortizing 30yr fixed), when rates are lower it can be very, very, substantial paydown. Obviously you have to be diciplined and not go blow the extra cash flow on a new car or boat pmt, etc.
There are no question a lot of sub-prime and Alt-A people who are going to see payment shock when their option Arms are resetting, have payed nothing down (or worse let their mtg balance balloon to possibly over what their house is worth) not to mention real estate values are starting to drop slightly with the huge builder inventorys out there. If we start seeing more Job losses and or layoffs we are in a "hard landing" recession very quickly...The credit spicket is being turned off by the secondary market...investors are not buying the loan packages with these sub-prime mortgages which makes it very hard to originate new deals...Banks don't want to hold these loans if they can't sell them....a vicious cycle, but definately happening.

[TOBTEK]

Pretty funny how until last week most people didn't know what a "sub-prime" mortgage was. Now thats its a page one story on every print rag, everyones an expert. BUT if ya look at what rates are at right now, theres NOTHING to complain about. Basically the days of crappy fico's low to no doc loans are going to be allot tougher to obtain. We have seen in the last few months that the lenders are looking at EVERY application much closer, and the stips have grown therefor. The prices of homes have stabilized, and rates are awesome... might be the rate time to buy a home:idea: OR refinance out of your MTA/COFI based loan:idea: UNLESS you like to buy when markets are peaked.:jawdrop: :jawdrop:
FLAME ON :)

[DCBDaytona]

Pretty funny how until last week most people didn't know what a "sub-prime" mortgage was. Now thats its a page one story on every print rag, everyones an expert. BUT if ya look at what rates are at right now, theres NOTHING to complain about. Basically the days of crappy fico's low to no doc loans are going to be allot tougher to obtain. We have seen in the last few months that the lenders are looking at EVERY application much closer, and the stips have grown therefor. The prices of homes have stabilized, and rates are awesome... might be the rate time to buy a home:idea: OR refinance out of your MTA/COFI based loan:idea: UNLESS you like to buy when markets are peaked.:jawdrop: :jawdrop:
FLAME ON :)
No flaming from me....I'm an economist so these type of topics intrigue me. But I on the other hand do not believe it takes a rocket scientist to understand home mortgages/loans and the usery that has occurred of the last few years with the sub-prime BS. I for one could never be an R/E...but the concepts are simple.

[C-2]

You guys STILL crack me up. Under your rationale, unless you are on Wall Street, you shouldn't be in the market and don't know what's going on.
Please, check out Lanser's blog this morning. He provides some interesting insight about the impact of RE blogs.

[Kilrtoy]

I could care less if all the Subprime borrowers went away! If you have less than a 600 score you don't deserve to buy a house. And if your stupid enough to take a pay option or a pick-a-pay loan you deserve a foreclosure.
.
YEAH SCREW ALL THOSE PEOPLE:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Troy McClure]

Please, check out Lanser's blog this morning. He provides some interesting insight about the impact of RE blogs.
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/housing/article_1617725.php
I think you mean this one??

[cdog]

Interest-only loans are not, by themselves, a bad thing.
If I wanted to sell my home of 12 years, put $400k down on a larger home, the interest-only loan would lower my payment substantially. Not applying $200 to the principal every month wouldn't break me.
Am I missing something, here?:idea:
I/O's are a great product for those who are savvy and responsible enough to handle it. I've used them 3 times and came out way ahead on 2 properties. Credit score, assets and down payment need to be scrutinized when applying for these. The real problem lies with mortgage brokers who give out shit loans to shit credit to make a buck. The high volume lower profit per transaction environment created this problem.
The housing market will be back. It will take a couple of years. What was 700k will someday be 900k+.

[rivercrazy]

Interest-only loans are not, by themselves, a bad thing.
If I wanted to sell my home of 12 years, put $400k down on a larger home, the interest-only loan would lower my payment substantially. Not applying $200 to the principal every month wouldn't break me.
Am I missing something, here?:idea:
I don't disagree with you and your example. But interest only loans to get weak borrowers into a house is a recipe for disaster. Credit approval guidelines should be higher for interest only than for traditional amortizing products to protect the less sophistocated from the shark lenders

[SHOTKALLIN]

30 YEAR FIXED is the only way to go. If you bought over your head, or on a rediculous ARM then too bad so sad but I have no sympathy for these "ballers".
My wife and I bought our home based on being able to afford it on one income just in case. I lost my job last june and we have not missed any bills. Haven't been late either. In addition to that we also are paying an extra $860 a month for Cobra med insurance.
Do I want a big baller house? Hell Yeah! but not before I'm ready.

[reDECKulous]

I love reading the opinions on ***boat, they are great. 99% of them are based up the last article they read on the latimes website and really have no first hand experience.
I could care less if all the Subprime borrowers went away! If you have less than a 600 score you don't deserve to buy a house. And if your stupid enough to take a pay option or a pick-a-pay loan you deserve a foreclosure.
Sub-Prime lending is NOT gonna just SHUT DOWN. If these banks all close then others will open, too much money to be made.
I am a broker and had my best year ever last year and doubled sales, and income. Bottom line, real estate isn't gonna shut down, people will always be buying, selling, and refinancing. Maybe not as much as the last 5 years.
Maybe I am being optimistic but I just don't see a 25% drop in prices from where they are now. I could be wrong, But then again I own a home and I'm not hoping for prices to drop So I can move out of my apartment and finally get a home.
We'll said. Anyone who excelled in the industry will be fine. Those who were slakers will be gone. My income continues to grow each quarter. You just have to adapt to the market.
Eric

[reDECKulous]

BTW A Paper rates are down about .5% from this time last week.

[C-2]

BTW A Paper rates are down about .5% from this time last week.
As is the stock market:sqeyes: :sqeyes: :sqeyes:

[Kilrtoy]

BTW A Paper rates are down about .5% from this time last week.
and gas prices are up 50% for a month a ago

[reDECKulous]

As is the stock market:sqeyes: :sqeyes: :sqeyes:
Different kind of down.

[cjordan]

I'll attempt to put the problem with sub-prime in picture form and simplify as much as possible. Here is an index of various tranches of Credit default swaps (CDS) (think of them as a way to lay off risk for investors in ABS "home equity" product) the higher the spread the higher the risk to the "insurer" and vice versa. All you need to know is the BBB and BBB- tranches were trading closer to par a month ago...now you see 68-73 cents on the dollar..IE the perceived risk to owning these pools has risen substantially..The newer (less seasoned pools) are perceived much riskier due to many factors. (lax credit and underwriting, higher than current home values, payments increasing, etc) For now, there are very limited buyers of the lower tranches and hence...why credit is tightning up a lot and people with lower scores have few if any options. Will it shake out, sure...who knows when though. ;)
FYI, The Sub-Prime market is HUGE...~1.3trillion, which is about the size of the entire California or Canadian Economy!;)
ABX Markets: BID ASK SPRD
07-1.A 93-12 93-28 +242
07-1.BBB 75-16 77-16 +1000
07-1.BBB- 67-08 69-08 +1565
06-2.A 93-16 94-00 +240
06-2.BBB 79-24 81-24 +819
06-2.BBB- 69-16 71-16 +1416
06-1.A 96-16 97-00 +168
06-1.BBB 91-00 93-00 +462
06-1.BBB- 85-08 87-08 +839

[yamamoto]

I have a simple question, if household income have risen about 10 to 15% in the past 7 years, why has the average price of a home risen 200 to 300%?

[riverracerx]

My wife sells sub-prime and she has said that when she walks into a brokers office they all say "Oh you guys are still open?"
Seems with alot of companies closing their doors some brokers are just looking for someone to buy from.
I don't know anything about the business but I know she is busy. It has just been harder, and longer for her to get things approved internally with all the changes.

[bocco]

What I don't understand about this whole thing is that it seems like the mortgage brokers would actually be very busy trying to refinance people out of these bad loans. Instead it seems just the opposite. Are people just loosing their houses instead of refinancing because they are just to far behind?

[Trailer Park Casanova]

What I don't understand about this whole thing is that it seems like the mortgage brokers would actually be very busy trying to refinance people out of these bad loans. Instead it seems just the opposite. Are people just loosing their houses instead of refinancing because they are just to far behind?
They have crappy credit so no prime re-fi, & they can't make the $4000 + a month nut so they are folding.

[reDECKulous]

What I don't understand about this whole thing is that it seems like the mortgage brokers would actually be very busy trying to refinance people out of these bad loans. Instead it seems just the opposite. Are people just loosing their houses instead of refinancing because they are just to far behind?
That is what I am talking about. That is where the money will be for the next few years

[socalmofo]

What I don't understand about this whole thing is that it seems like the mortgage brokers would actually be very busy trying to refinance people out of these bad loans. Instead it seems just the opposite. Are people just loosing their houses instead of refinancing because they are just to far behind?
There is actually ALOT of refinance business right now, Rates are great. Many people in Mortgage/Real Estate are very unprofessional and just all around not good business people, therefore when the times get slower they have no repeat customers and no new customers because they don't conduct effective business.Anyone that can fog a mirror can make money in great times. The good agents and mortgage brokers are doing just fine right now.

[cjordan]

What I don't understand about this whole thing is that it seems like the mortgage brokers would actually be very busy trying to refinance people out of these bad loans. Instead it seems just the opposite. Are people just loosing their houses instead of refinancing because they are just to far behind?
If they are already financed to the hilt (many are) and thier house is worth the same or less than the last refi, rates have risen (especially teaser rates resetting) ....well you know the rest of the story. There is no collateral left to refi...there are exotics out there, like 125% loans etc...but you need decent credit (probably at least 680) to get them.
There are banks with very deliquent mortgages on their books who are not foreclosing so they don't have to take the write down, foreclosure is also expensive for the banks and they typically end up buying the house back anyway to "protect" their investment in the note...If there is little or no equity...I guess they are figureing why bother with all the expense to get back to the same place...

[C-2]

This thread will be fun to revist in a few months.

[socalmofo]

This thread will be fun to revist in a few months.
The "sky is falling" people have been saying for the last 3 years that we were gonna have this horrible meltdown. Hasn't happened yet. How much longer are you guys gonna need to be right? It has been a "couple months", or "This next year", when will all you experts finally be right? Just Curious.

[DCBDaytona]

The "sky is falling" people have been saying for the last 3 years that we were gonna have this horrible meltdown. Hasn't happened yet. How much longer are you guys gonna need to be right? It has been a "couple months", or "This next year", when will all you experts finally be right? Just Curious.
That's like predicting the stock market sways...NOBODY is ever correct. And if you are, it's just plain luck. Historical data is the only way to predict the future....It's coming soon.

[socalmofo]

That's like predicting the stock market sways...NOBODY is ever correct. And if you are, it's just plain luck. Historical data is the only way to predict the future....It's coming soon.
I'm with you.......What statistical data do you have which would support this within the next year? I'm not saying it isn't gonna happen I just like to hear peoples facts.

[Tequila-John]

Pretty funny how until last week most people didn't know what a "sub-prime" mortgage was. Now thats its a page one story on every print rag, everyones an expert. BUT if ya look at what rates are at right now, theres NOTHING to complain about. Basically the days of crappy fico's low to no doc loans are going to be allot tougher to obtain. We have seen in the last few months that the lenders are looking at EVERY application much closer, and the stips have grown therefor. The prices of homes have stabilized, and rates are awesome... might be the rate time to buy a home:idea: OR refinance out of your MTA/COFI based loan:idea: UNLESS you like to buy when markets are peaked.:jawdrop: :jawdrop:
FLAME ON :)
I agree

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

I'll attempt to put the problem with sub-prime in picture form and simplify as much as possible. Here is an index of various tranches of Credit default swaps (CDS) (think of them as a way to lay off risk for investors in ABS "home equity" product) the higher the spread the higher the risk to the "insurer" and vice versa. All you need to know is the BBB and BBB- tranches were trading closer to par a month ago...now you see 68-73 cents on the dollar..IE the perceived risk to owning these pools has risen substantially..The newer (less seasoned pools) are perceived much riskier due to many factors. (lax credit and underwriting, higher than current home values, payments increasing, etc) For now, there are very limited buyers of the lower tranches and hence...why credit is tightning up a lot and people with lower scores have few if any options. Will it shake out, sure...who knows when though. ;)
FYI, The Sub-Prime market is HUGE...~1.3trillion, which is about the size of the entire California or Canadian Economy!;)
ABX Markets: BID ASK SPRD
07-1.A 93-12 93-28 +242
07-1.BBB 75-16 77-16 +1000
07-1.BBB- 67-08 69-08 +1565
06-2.A 93-16 94-00 +240
06-2.BBB 79-24 81-24 +819
06-2.BBB- 69-16 71-16 +1416
06-1.A 96-16 97-00 +168
06-1.BBB 91-00 93-00 +462
06-1.BBB- 85-08 87-08 +839
Forgive my ignorance . . . What is a "tranch"?

[Dominator Scott]

There is actually ALOT of refinance business right now, Rates are great. Many people in Mortgage/Real Estate are very unprofessional and just all around not good business people, therefore when the times get slower they have no repeat customers and no new customers because they don't conduct effective business.Anyone that can fog a mirror can make money in great times. The good agents and mortgage brokers are doing just fine right now.
Maybe in Cali. business is good,but here in Michigan when half the population is tied to the auto industry in one way or another and the Big 3 are closing plants left and right it creates a different scenario. I have seen a trickledown effect from the auto industry downsizing drasticly in all aspects. Their suppliers laying off people,GM,Ford & Chrysler workers suddenly out of work or having to relocate out of state. Michigan has always been the automotive capital of the world so when it starts going away it hits you harder than what you might think.:jawdrop:

[cjordan]

The "sky is falling" people have been saying for the last 3 years that we were gonna have this horrible meltdown. Hasn't happened yet. How much longer are you guys gonna need to be right? It has been a "couple months", or "This next year", when will all you experts finally be right? Just Curious.
Imbalances always get corrected...Biotech, Tech, oil, real estate, etc...It all goes through cycles, too much credit coupled with lax lending practices and investors willing to accept less and less for the risks they were/are taking have led to the greatest credit creation in the shortest amount of time EVER in history...all of the above always end, but typically there is harsh pain felt across a very broad spectrum before they do.....Tech still hasn't recovered from 7 yrs ago.......there hasn't been much pain yet...If there was pain being felt, the above quote would be reading much, much different...;)

[C-2]

The "sky is falling" people have been saying for the last 3 years that we were gonna have this horrible meltdown. Hasn't happened yet. How much longer are you guys gonna need to be right? It has been a "couple months", or "This next year", when will all you experts finally be right? Just Curious.
Oh I dunno, maybe NOW.
Unless, of course, you think a 65% increase in foreclosures is a healthy thing.

[yamamoto]

The "sky is falling" people have been saying for the last 3 years that we were gonna have this horrible meltdown. Hasn't happened yet. How much longer are you guys gonna need to be right? It has been a "couple months", or "This next year", when will all you experts finally be right? Just Curious.
We just hit the inflection point a couple of weeks ago. When Wall Street decided to stop buying these bundled loans from the subprime lenders, now it is going to be very difficult for these lenders to have the capital to loan out to borrowers. There is going to be a liquidity crisis beginning NOW in the subprime market, leading to more defaults from people who cannot refinance, to more foreclosures in our neighborhoods, ultimately dragging prices down in over valued cities.

[cjordan]

Forgive my ignorance . . . What is a "tranch"?
In this case it refers to "pools" of securities with similar profiles or characteristics.
A super simple example might be:
"A" tranche = a pool of mortgages from different lenders containing loans with a FICO of 620-640
"BBB" tranche = a pool of mortgages from different lenders containing loans with a FICO of 580-620
etc, etc.

[CA Stu]

Oh I dunno, maybe NOW.
Unless, of course, you think a 65% increase in foreclosures is a healthy thing.
Indeed.
Smoke and mirrors do not a solid foundation make.
Thanks
CA Stu
PS "Losing"

[Wmc]

With everything being said. I"m still in business and busier then ever, thanks to less competition. I do A and Alt A paper. So if you or any of your friends are thinking of a purchase or refinance, don't hesitate to call.:)
Wendi Cook
Provident Bank Mortgage
951-990-0328
www.pbmwholesale.com

[C-2]

And I just received my final license - so I am officially open for biz - REO business.

[lawbreaker2]

Does this mean I will be able to buy a home in havi this year with out robbing a bank.:D Where do all your repo boats go.:idea:

[Mandelon]

There's a couple dozen foreclosures in havasu right now.
Lending programs are tightening up at the same time as thousands of repo'd homes will be going on the market.....reducing the buying pool is not the greatest way to find buyers.....
The whole thing never should have happened anyway. The lenders do it to themselves. Greed and ignorance on both sides I suppose.

[bigq]

I have a simple question, if household income have risen about 10 to 15% in the past 7 years, why has the average price of a home risen 200 to 300%?
Thats not a question, that is the answer grasshopper.:D

[cjordan]

ABX Markets: BID ASK SPRD
07-1.A 93-12 93-28 +242
07-1.BBB 75-16 77-16 +1000
07-1.BBB- 67-08 69-08 +1565
06-2.A 93-16 94-00 +240
06-2.BBB 79-24 81-24 +819
06-2.BBB- 69-16 71-16 +1416
06-1.A 96-16 97-00 +168
06-1.BBB 91-00 93-00 +462
06-1.BBB- 85-08 87-08 +839
Old post........

[cjordan]

New post from todays markets....see how much the risky portions have fallen further....I'd hate to be in a 2/28 or 3/27 and resetting.....:(
ABX Markets: BID ASK SPRD
07-1.A 81-24 83-24 +538
07-1.BBB 59-28 61-28 +1573
07-1.BBB- 52-16 54-16 +2236
06-2.A 85-24 87-24 +446
06-2.BBB 67-08 69-08 +1291
06-2.BBB- 58-00 60-00 +1944
06-1.A 94-16 96-16 +207
06-1.BBB 85-00 87-00 +677
06-1.BBB- 76-08 78-08 +1194

[Tequila-John]

New post from todays markets....see how much the risky portions have fallen further....I'd hate to be in a 2/28 or 3/27 and resetting.....:(
ABX Markets: BID ASK SPRD
07-1.A 81-24 83-24 +538
07-1.BBB 59-28 61-28 +1573
07-1.BBB- 52-16 54-16 +2236
06-2.A 85-24 87-24 +446
06-2.BBB 67-08 69-08 +1291
06-2.BBB- 58-00 60-00 +1944
06-1.A 94-16 96-16 +207
06-1.BBB 85-00 87-00 +677
06-1.BBB- 76-08 78-08 +1194
can you explain this post?

[cjordan]

I'll attempt to put the problem with sub-prime in picture form and simplify as much as possible. Here is an index of various tranches of Credit default swaps (CDS) (think of them as a way to lay off risk for investors in ABS "home equity" product) the higher the spread the higher the risk to the "insurer" and vice versa. All you need to know is the BBB and BBB- tranches were trading closer to par a month ago...now you see 68-73 cents on the dollar..IE the perceived risk to owning these pools has risen substantially..The newer (less seasoned pools) are perceived much riskier due to many factors. (lax credit and underwriting, higher than current home values, payments increasing, etc) For now, there are very limited buyers of the lower tranches and hence...why credit is tightning up a lot and people with lower scores have few if any options. Will it shake out, sure...who knows when though. ;)
FYI, The Sub-Prime market is HUGE...~1.3trillion, which is about the size of the entire California or Canadian Economy!;)
Re read this from a few months back...68-73 cents is now 52-54 and so on....

[cjordan]

Problem in sub prime (well there are a lot) but Buyers of the debt are demanding far, far, more yield or premium to take on the risk....and some still aren't buying... underwriting is tightning and some of these people with teaser rates are getting absolutly SMOKED on the resets with few alternatives...I/E can't refi out or sell....and worse, can't afford a monthly payment 3-5X more than they were used to...

[Havasu 928]

Its been nothing but busy roads ahead when you work the REO side of Real Estate, heading out to look at two more pre-listing for banks today.
048Realty Professionals
Doug048RE@Hotmail.com

[BEER&WATER]

Its been nothing but busy roads ahead when you work the REO side of Real Estate, heading out to look at two more pre-listing for banks today.
048Realty Professionals
Doug048RE@Hotmail.com
but you still need buyer's

[cdog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAXLdaV_QJ4

[cdog]

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=3372
U.S. Housing Market Update: Bottom Not in Sight
By Robert Morley Friday, June 29, 2007
Mortgage rates are leaping as defaults, foreclosures and inventory rise. The economy is starting to hurt.
Over the past five weeks, interest rates for the benchmark 30-year mortgage jumped by more than half a percent, pinching borrowers with both good and bad credit alike. As of June 21, the average rate on a 30-year fixed loan stood at 6.69 percent, sharply up from the recent May 10 low of 6.15 percent.
The rate increase will undoubtedly strengthen the headwinds blowing against an already struggling housing market. A half-percent rise indicates that the house size the average buyer can afford fell nearly 8 percent. On a typical $300,000 loan, the recent uptick in rates adds an additional $106 per month to the payment and more than $38,000 over the life of the loan. That’s a big jump in costs compared to rates available less than seven weeks ago.Foreclosure and delinquency rates are also continuing to rise, adding further pressure on lenders to continue to tighten lending standards.
A record high 250,000 mortgages are in foreclosure across the United States, but that number looks set to climb higher as delinquencies continue to grow, especially in the subprime lending category. As of the first quarter of this year, 15.8 percent of subprime adjustable-rate mortgages were categorized as delinquent, compared to approximately 10 percent during 2005 (Quest Information Limited, June 25). But people with prime loans are evidently also being squeezed, since foreclosure rates on prime loans are at the highest level since at least 1972.
Housing sales and construction data also point to a slowing housing market.
New home sales in May were down 1.6 percent from April, and down 15 percent from one year ago. Existing home sales slipped 0.3 percent in May and are down 10.3 percent from 2006. Total unsold housing inventory rose 5 percent over the month, representing about a nine-month supply at the current sales pace, up from an 8.4 month supply in April. Overall, the supply of unsold homes now stands at a record 4.2 million units, according to the National Association of Realtors.
Unsurprisingly, as available inventory has boomed, housing starts have faltered. Construction starts in May were down 2.1 percent from April, and down a massive 24.2 percent from May 2006. Building permits were also down 21.7 percent from last year.
The confluence of rising interest rates and increased inventory seems to be finally affecting home prices. Although home prices in some areas across the nation seem to be standing firm, the median home price across the country continues to fall according to the National Association of Realtors, which noted that this year will likely be the first time since the Great Depression that U.S. median house prices declined for the year. The median home price fell for the 10th month in a row in May to $223,700, down almost 14 percent from its April 2006 peak.
In May, the National Association of Realtors reported that the national average home price dropped 1.8 percent compared to a year ago. The Case-Shiller index also showed a drop in prices, though there is at least one conflicting report. The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight showed positive appreciation at 4.3 percent over the same time frame. However, this finding was still the slowest rate of growth in 10 years.
The slowing housing market is beginning to show signs of spilling over into the general economy.
The largest U.S. homebuilder, Lennar, just reported a dramatic downturn in its finances, announcing losses of $244.2 million over the past quarter, compared to earnings of $324.7 million a year earlier. Lennar was forced to cut the average price on its homes by 7.5 percent.
Lennar’s chief executive issued the following warning: “As we look to our third quarter and the remainder of 2007, we continue to see weak and perhaps deteriorating market conditions.”
But homebuilders are not the only corporations affected by the falling housing market. The banking and finance sector is also starting to hurt. Since the beginning of last year, more than 85 major U.S. lenders have closed or declared bankruptcy, according to data cited by the Telegraph (June 26).
Last week, two massive hedge funds run by Bear Stearns with assets of close to $20 billion virtually imploded due to investments linked to the faltering subprime mortgage market. Investors fear that the Bear Stearns funds are just the leading edge in a coming storm of housing-related hedge fund casualties.
The consequences of a popping housing bubble are just beginning to appear.
“House prices are at the root of everything,” says Howard Silverblatt, a senior index analyst at Standard & Poor’s. “Not only do the borrowers and lenders lose when defaults rise and house prices decline, but interest rates rise, so consumer and corporate spending are hit, corporate profits go down and the economy suffers.”
For practical information on how to prepare for the evident downturn in the economy, read “Storm-Proof Your Financial House.”

[Havasu 928]

but you still need buyer's
I have contacts on my desk waiting on banks approval, homes have been on the market for a month. Bank owned homes move pretty quick...not always, but better right now then consumer owned.
048 Realty Professionals
Doug048RE@Hotmail.com

[BEER&WATER]

I have contacts on my desk waiting on banks approval, homes have been on the market for a month. Bank owned homes move pretty quick...not always, but better right now then consumer owned.
048 Realty Professionals
Doug048RE@Hotmail.com
i have contacts 45 of them /all waiting to see where
it's all going to land /but i have no buyers

[cjordan]

So.......does anybody still think subprime is staying "contained" ;) Try to get a jumbo right now even with an 800 score..... Way more pain to come in residential real estate....

[cjordan]

Re read this from a few months back...68-73 cents is now 52-54 and so on....
35-37 cents on the dollar right now.....

[TOBTEK]

So.......does anybody still think subprime is staying "contained" ;) Try to get a jumbo right now even with an 800 score..... Way more pain to come in residential real estate....
PIECE OF CAKE..... as long as you are below 65% CLTV. :( rates are still about average if you look over the 50 yr history. They sux compared to recent history though. Everyone forgets the 15% days back in the 80's. Although 15% on a 200k house is easier to handle then same rate on a 700K property. Tough times for sure, no sugar coating it. How about government aid pumping in BILLIONS to help these lenders?? don't you wish, if you made bad business decisions and were on the verge of BK, the Gov would cough up that kind of money for your biz?

[essexjet]

So.......does anybody still think subprime is staying "contained" ;) Try to get a jumbo right now even with an 800 score..... Way more pain to come in residential real estate....
Done, just got an approval for a client stated/stated purchase 95% with a 735 and no reserves :D

[cjordan]

Other problem this time around is the 80's programs were pretty much 80% LTV max, you are right about the value creep. With all the exotics out there now, and teaser rates starting to reset....you know the drill....not pretty. Housing could drag for 3 more yrs easily...Fed kinda created this problem with 1% funds for so long.....well here is the major problem, to "compensate" for past errors, the rate usually has to go LOWER than the previous floor....I/E Below 1%, tough for a fed to maneuver in that range with 0 being the floor....just ask Japan........

[cjordan]

Done, just got an approval for a client stated/stated purchase 95% with a 735 and no reserves :D
Getting the approval is the easy part.....come back and brigg. when it funds....:D

[essexjet]

Getting the approval is the easy part.....come back and brigg. when it funds....:D
Fingers crossed, should get docs and sign next week for a 700,000 purchase

[Big Inch]

Fingers crossed, should get docs and sign next week for a 700,000 purchase
You need to be doing the "please don't close your doors before this funds" dance ;)
I got a stated/stated 100% lender but a couple days ago the rep gave me a heads up that they are reviewing their guidelines with possible changes to follow . Big surprise :D

[essexjet]

You need to be doing the "please don't close your doors before this funds" dance ;)
I got a stated/stated 100% lender but a couple days ago the rep gave me a heads up that they are reviewing their guidelines with possible changes to follow . Big surprise :D
Please tell me its not Home Savings. I have a 100% purchase stated over there right now.

[Dave C]

I think I lucked out on my second home purchase in April of 2007. I was agonizing about the price but I said **** it and bought it anyway.
I was basically hedging my bet that the financing would get more difficult and I wouldn't find another house in the neighborhood I could park my boat on :D :devil:
I kept the old house so I had to get a huge jumbo with a second to get the new one.
I just spoke with the broker I used and as of today we would have difficulty getting the second to make the deal work.
I'd rather be lucky than good :devil:

[Big Inch]

Please tell me its not Home Savings. I have a 100% purchase stated over there right now.
It's not home savings but a couple guys in my office are good friends with the owners of Home Savings and I know that at least 1 of their primary investors is still accepting loans from their correspondents so for now you should be in the clear but in this market don't delay getting this to close. Home Savings is a fairly small company and I don't believe they would be able to weather much if they had issues. Slam that baby in there and be a hero for your clients :)

[catman-do]

We are still out there doing jumbo loan amts. One of the few left still going over 417k. However, as of tonight we have cut our ltv's between 5-10% from what they were. We are still offering 95% full, and up to 85 stated (wage or s/e). BTW, I work for BNC. Kind of excited to see what type of products we will be getting once the merger is done with ALS.

[USCFAN]

We are still out there doing jumbo loan amts. One of the few left still going over 417k. However, as of tonight we have cut our ltv's between 5-10% from what they were. We are still offering 95% full, and up to 85 stated (wage or s/e). BTW, I work for BNC. Kind of excited to see what type of products we will be getting once the merger is done with ALS.
I read today that ALS was going to close BNC.

[Hotcobra270]

BNC is officially DEAD.. do a google search on them...

[NorCalCat]

Inappropriate financing is what caused this situation to occur in the first place.
No doc loans, intererst only financing for people that could not afford amortization, little or no down payments, etc.
All these programs do is cause a temporary artifical inflation in R/E values (and toys too!) and seriously hurt the people that signed up for these programs in the first place.
Everyone on here seems to be the professional. However, I think this comment is the most accurate of them all.
My main question is that if you are not using you home equity on a continuous basis, why is it such an issue for so many on here. What I mean is, you pay your mortgage regardless of the market trends, right? But then there is the so called "Baller" that takes the 2nd on the home. Now that is over! Just curious why everyone is looking at this as a Red Dawn situation.
And again, the national average is down, however, what about the "Micro" areas that were/are not effected as much?
Just curious.

[essexjet]

135 Year to date of Lenders that went out of business according to http://ml-implode.com/
"Imploded" Lenders:
135. Amstar Mortgage Corp
134. Quality Home Loans
133. BNC Mortgage (Lehman)
132. Accredited Home Lenders
131. First National Bank of Arizona (FNBA) Wholesale, Correspondent
130. Chevy Chase Bank Correspondent
129. GreenPoint Mortgage - Capital One Wholesale
128. NovaStar (Wholesale), Homeview Lending
127. Quick Loan Funding
126. National City Home Equity
125. Calusa Investments
124. Mercantile Mortgage
123. First Magnus
122. First Indiana Wholesale
121. Pacific American Mortgage (PAMCO)
120. Spectrum Financial Group - Wholesale
119. Express Capital Lending
118. Deutsche Bank Correspondent Lending Group (CLG)
117. MLSG
116. Trump Mortgage
115. HomeBanc Mortgage Corporation
114. Mylor Financial
113. Aegis (Everything)
112. Alternative Financing Corp (AFC) Wholesale
111. Winstar Mortgage
110. American Home Mortgage / American Brokers Conduit
109. Sunset Mortgage
108. Fieldstone Mortgage Company
107. Nations Home Lending
106. Wells Fargo Alternative Lending Wholesale
105. Entrust Mortgage
104. Alera Financial (Wholesale)
103. Flick Mortgage/Mortgage Simple
102. Alliance Bancorp
101. Choice Capital Funding
100. Premier Mortgage Funding
99. Stone Creek Funding
98. FlexPoint Funding (Wholesale & Retail)
97. Starpointe Mortgage
96. Unlimited Loan Resources (ULR)
95. Freestand Financial
94. Steward Financial
93. Wells Fargo (Correspondent)
92. Bridge Capital Corporation
91. Altivus Financial
90. ACT Mortgage
89. Alliance Mortgage Banking Corp (AMBC)
88. Concord Mortgage Wholesale
87. Heartwell Mortgage
86. Oak Street Mortgage
85. The Mortgage Warehouse
84. First Street Financial
83. Right-Away Mortgage
82. Heritage Plaza Mortgage
81. Horizon Bank Wholesale Lending Group
80. Lancaster Mortgage Bank (LMB)
79. Bryco (Wholesale)
78. No Red Tape Mortgage
77. The Lending Group (TLG)
76. Pro 30 Funding
75. NetBank Funding
74. Columbia Home Loans, LLC
73. Mortgage Tree Lending
72. Homeland Capital Group
71. Nation One Mortgage
70. Dana Capital Group
69. Millenium Funding Group
68. MILA
67. Home Equity of America
66. Opteum (Wholesale, Conduit)
65. Innovative Mortgage Capital
64. Home Capital, Inc.
63. Home 123 Mortgage
62. Homefield Financial
61. First Horizon (Subprime)
60. Platinum Capital Group
59. First Source Funding Group (FSFG)
58. Alterna Mortgage
57. Solutions Funding
56. People's Mortgage
55. LowerMyPayment.com
54. Zone Funding
53. First Consolidated (Subprime Wholesale)
52. EquiFirst
51. SouthStar Funding
50. Warehouse USA
49. H&R Block Mortgage
48. Madison Equity Loans
47. HSBC Mortgage Services (correspondent div.)
46. Sunset Direct Lending
45. Kellner Mortgage Investments
44. LoanCity
43. CoreStar Financial Group
42. Ameriquest
41. Investaid Corp.
40. People's Choice Financial Corp.
39. Master Financial
38. Maribella Mortgage
37. FMF Capital LLC
36. New Century Financial Corp.
35. Wachovia Mortgage (Correspondent div.)
34. Ameritrust Mortgage Company (Subprime Wholesale)
33. Trojan Lending (Wholesale)
32. Fremont General Corporation
31. DomesticBank (Wholesale Lending Division)
30. Franklin Financial (Wholesale Operations)
29. Ivanhoe Mortgage/Central Pacific Mortgage
28. Eagle First Mortgage
27. Coastal Capital
26. Silver State Mortgage
25. ResMAE Mortgage Corporation
24. ECC Capital/Encore Credit
23. Lender's Direct Capital Corporation (wholesale division)
22. Concorde Acceptance
21. DeepGreen Financial
20. Millenium Bankshares (Mortgage Subsidiaries)
19. Summit Mortgage
18. Mandalay Mortgage
17. Rose Mortgage
16. EquiBanc
15. FundingAmerica
14. Popular Financial Holdings
13. Clear Choice Financial/Bay Capital
12. Origen Wholesale Lending
11. SecuredFunding
10. Preferred Advantage
9. MLN
8. Sovereign Bancorp (Wholesale Ops)
7. Harbourton Mortgage Investment Corporation
6. OwnIt Mortgage
5. Sebring Capital Partners
4. Axis Mortgage & Investments
3. Meritage Mortgage
2. Acoustic Home Loans
1. Merit Financial

[C-2]

And again, the national average is down, however, what about the "Micro" areas that were/are not effected as much?
Just curious.
What are you referring to?

[NorCalCat]

What are you referring to?
We all know that interest rates are up, and the national average is down on real estate sales. However, what the analyst that are saying this does not say is that there are areas that have not been effected as harshly or at all. "Micro" communities, like San Francisco, Ross, Tiburon, etc. Then there are areas that have been hit pretty bad like San Diego, Sacramento, etc.
All in all, I think that the banks should force the borrowers to pay back the loans not file bk. I know this I unrealistic, but I fell sorry for the stock holders and employees of the institutions that made the loans even though they should have been a bit more tight. Just about anyone could get a $750,000 mortgage if you had good credit. Now the banks are getting the short end of the stick.

[Big Inch]

I guess that wasn't exactly true.
Now that's funny.

[C-2]

We all know that interest rates are up, and the national average is down on real estate sales. However, what the analyst that are saying this does not say is that there are areas that have not been effected as harshly or at all. "Micro" communities, like San Francisco, Ross, Tiburon, etc. Then there are areas that have been hit pretty bad like San Diego, Sacramento, etc.
All in all, I think that the banks should force the borrowers to pay back the loans not file bk. I know this I unrealistic, but I fell sorry for the stock holders and employees of the institutions that made the loans even though they should have been a bit more tight. Just about anyone could get a $750,000 mortgage if you had good credit. Now the banks are getting the short end of the stick.
Cali is a one action state and most foreclosures are non-judicial, which means there are no defficiency judgments, so people can walk away over encumbered residences without consequence.
Filing BK is a whole different dealio and if you or your spouse has a job, there's a good chance you will have to repay any unsecured debt under a 13, and not walk away under a 7. If you have equity in your home and you file BK - it will be sold by the trustee. BK is no longer an escape for most borrowers, those laws were reformed several years ago.
There was big money being made by lotsa people, including investors, and of course, banks. The banks never get the short end of the stick. Even if the Fed orders a bailout - who will come out on top again? The banks.
What's surprising most everybody now is how quickly this whole mess has escalated. Even some of the prime loans are defaulting, and it wasn't just the low-incime wage earners who enjoyed the liar loans.
Yes, the bubble has burst.http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1132owned.gif

[HM]

135 Year to date of Lenders that went out of business according to http://ml-implode.com/
"Imploded" Lenders:
135. Amstar Mortgage Corp
134. Quality Home Loans
133. BNC Mortgage (Lehman)
132. Accredited Home Lenders
131. First National Bank of Arizona (FNBA) Wholesale, Correspondent
130. Chevy Chase Bank Correspondent
129. GreenPoint Mortgage - Capital One Wholesale
128. NovaStar (Wholesale), Homeview Lending
127. Quick Loan Funding
126. National City Home Equity
125. Calusa Investments
124. Mercantile Mortgage
123. First Magnus
122. First Indiana Wholesale
121. Pacific American Mortgage (PAMCO)
120. Spectrum Financial Group - Wholesale
119. Express Capital Lending
118. Deutsche Bank Correspondent Lending Group (CLG)
117. MLSG
116. Trump Mortgage
115. HomeBanc Mortgage Corporation
114. Mylor Financial
113. Aegis (Everything)
112. Alternative Financing Corp (AFC) Wholesale
111. Winstar Mortgage
110. American Home Mortgage / American Brokers Conduit
109. Sunset Mortgage
108. Fieldstone Mortgage Company
107. Nations Home Lending
106. Wells Fargo Alternative Lending Wholesale
105. Entrust Mortgage
104. Alera Financial (Wholesale)
103. Flick Mortgage/Mortgage Simple
102. Alliance Bancorp
101. Choice Capital Funding
100. Premier Mortgage Funding
99. Stone Creek Funding
98. FlexPoint Funding (Wholesale & Retail)
97. Starpointe Mortgage
96. Unlimited Loan Resources (ULR)
95. Freestand Financial
94. Steward Financial
93. Wells Fargo (Correspondent)
92. Bridge Capital Corporation
91. Altivus Financial
90. ACT Mortgage
89. Alliance Mortgage Banking Corp (AMBC)
88. Concord Mortgage Wholesale
87. Heartwell Mortgage
86. Oak Street Mortgage
85. The Mortgage Warehouse
84. First Street Financial
83. Right-Away Mortgage
82. Heritage Plaza Mortgage
81. Horizon Bank Wholesale Lending Group
80. Lancaster Mortgage Bank (LMB)
79. Bryco (Wholesale)
78. No Red Tape Mortgage
77. The Lending Group (TLG)
76. Pro 30 Funding
75. NetBank Funding
74. Columbia Home Loans, LLC
73. Mortgage Tree Lending
72. Homeland Capital Group
71. Nation One Mortgage
70. Dana Capital Group
69. Millenium Funding Group
68. MILA
67. Home Equity of America
66. Opteum (Wholesale, Conduit)
65. Innovative Mortgage Capital
64. Home Capital, Inc.
63. Home 123 Mortgage
62. Homefield Financial
61. First Horizon (Subprime)
60. Platinum Capital Group
59. First Source Funding Group (FSFG)
58. Alterna Mortgage
57. Solutions Funding
56. People's Mortgage
55. LowerMyPayment.com
54. Zone Funding
53. First Consolidated (Subprime Wholesale)
52. EquiFirst
51. SouthStar Funding
50. Warehouse USA
49. H&R Block Mortgage
48. Madison Equity Loans
47. HSBC Mortgage Services (correspondent div.)
46. Sunset Direct Lending
45. Kellner Mortgage Investments
44. LoanCity
43. CoreStar Financial Group
42. Ameriquest
41. Investaid Corp.
40. People's Choice Financial Corp.
39. Master Financial
38. Maribella Mortgage
37. FMF Capital LLC
36. New Century Financial Corp.
35. Wachovia Mortgage (Correspondent div.)
34. Ameritrust Mortgage Company (Subprime Wholesale)
33. Trojan Lending (Wholesale)
32. Fremont General Corporation
31. DomesticBank (Wholesale Lending Division)
30. Franklin Financial (Wholesale Operations)
29. Ivanhoe Mortgage/Central Pacific Mortgage
28. Eagle First Mortgage
27. Coastal Capital
26. Silver State Mortgage
25. ResMAE Mortgage Corporation
24. ECC Capital/Encore Credit
23. Lender's Direct Capital Corporation (wholesale division)
22. Concorde Acceptance
21. DeepGreen Financial
20. Millenium Bankshares (Mortgage Subsidiaries)
19. Summit Mortgage
18. Mandalay Mortgage
17. Rose Mortgage
16. EquiBanc
15. FundingAmerica
14. Popular Financial Holdings
13. Clear Choice Financial/Bay Capital
12. Origen Wholesale Lending
11. SecuredFunding
10. Preferred Advantage
9. MLN
8. Sovereign Bancorp (Wholesale Ops)
7. Harbourton Mortgage Investment Corporation
6. OwnIt Mortgage
5. Sebring Capital Partners
4. Axis Mortgage & Investments
3. Meritage Mortgage
2. Acoustic Home Loans
1. Merit Financial
This list doesn't really represent all the lenders that closed their doors. All those correspondent channel closings probably killed off 100 little lenders for each channel that was closed. I know of several that closed their doors that are not on that list, but most people woudn't know who they are.

[C-2]

This list doesn't really represent all the lenders that closed their doors. All those correspondent channel closings probably killed off 100 little lenders for each channel that was closed. I know of several that closed their doors that are not on that list, but most people woudn't know who they are.
Would you call that a "short" list ?
hahaha ha aha ahahhhhhhaaaaaaa:)

[Tequila-John]

I am busy :)

[essexjet]

I am busy :)
My pipline is full also :) :)

[HocusPocus]

Since the start of the year, more than 40,000 workers have lost their jobs at mortgage lending institutions, according to recent company layoff announcements and data complied by global outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc. Meanwhile, construction companies have announced nearly 20,000 job cuts this year, while the National Association of Realtors expects membership rolls to decline this year for the first time in a decade.
thats not good, wonder how many more will get the axe before its all over.

[Parker Dreamin]

My pipline is full also :) :)
As our old hommie big Willy said..."Pipe Dreams, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

[Tequila-John]

As our old hommie big Willy said..."Pipe Dreams, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
Yeah bud those where the good ole days!!!!
RANGER GAMES!

[Parker Dreamin]

Yeah bud those where the good ole days!!!!
RANGER GAMES!
Bradly Barakat dreamssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[25Elmn8r]

135 Year to date of Lenders that went out of business according to http://ml-implode.com/
"Imploded" Lenders:
33. Trojan Lending (Wholesale)
32. Fremont General Corporation
31. DomesticBank (Wholesale Lending Division)
30. Franklin Financial (Wholesale Operations)
29. Ivanhoe Mortgage/Central Pacific Mortgage
28. Eagle First Mortgage
27. Coastal Capital
26. Silver State Mortgage
25. ResMAE Mortgage Corporation
24. ECC Capital/Encore Credit
23. Lender's Direct Capital Corporation (wholesale division)
22. Concorde Acceptance
21. DeepGreen Financial
20. Millenium Bankshares (Mortgage Subsidiaries)
19. Summit Mortgage
18. Mandalay Mortgage
17. Rose Mortgage
16. EquiBanc
15. FundingAmerica
14. Popular Financial Holdings
13. Clear Choice Financial/Bay Capital
12. Origen Wholesale Lending
11. SecuredFunding
10. Preferred Advantage
9. MLN
8. Sovereign Bancorp (Wholesale Ops)
7. Harbourton Mortgage Investment Corporation
6. OwnIt Mortgage
5. Sebring Capital Partners
4. Axis Mortgage & Investments
3. Meritage Mortgage
2. Acoustic Home Loans
1. Merit Financial
ResMAE is still doing business, just a little re-org took place

[C-2]

ResMAE is still doing business, just a little re-org took place
I-M-P-L-O-D-E-D, the new watercooler buzzword.
I think essexjet added the "out of business" part:
"Imploded" lenders: The "imploded" status is somewhat subjective and does not necessarily mean operations are ceased permanently: it can mean bankruptcy filing, temporary but open-ended halting of major operations, or a "firesale" acquisition. The Companies include all types (prime, subprime, or a mix of both; retail or wholesale; subsidiaries and entire companies). Note: Companies listed here may still be operating in some capacity; check with them before making assumptions.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

MSNBC reported Monday less than 16% of mortgages are sub-prime.
They also reported that only 6% of those sub-prime mortages are in default.
Ben Stein said everyone is over-reacting.
Several chicks here at the river in the morgage biz say that's BS. They say foreclosures are at an astronomical high and will not top out for a couple years.
Regular good credit loan foreclosures rates are starting to tick up too. And that lead shoe is yet to drop.
What's your take?

[essexjet]

As our old hommie big Willy said..."Pipe Dreams, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
Dont care what it's called, as long as it funds :D
I-M-P-L-O-D-E-D, the new watercooler buzzword.
I think essexjet added the "out of business" part:
I did sorry, wrong use of words.

[skyskier]

Getting the approval is the easy part.....come back and brigg. when it funds....:D
Totaly off the subject, but I'm curious...Is your avatar a pic of Darryl's "Rare Bear"?

[Parker Dreamin]

[QUOTE=essexjet;2750035]Dont care what it's called, as long as it funds :D
QUOTE]
It is about turning "Pipe Dreams" into reality........ you got that right.
Never have a full pipe, there is always room for more. So it is never full...right ?

[essexjet]

[QUOTE=essexjet;2750035]Dont care what it's called, as long as it funds :D
QUOTE]
It is about turning "Pipe Dreams" into reality........ you got that right.
Never have a full pipe, there is always room for more. So it is never full...right ?
So very true :D :)

[Wmc]

I'm still in business and getting busier now with my competitors closing. If you had a loan with Greenpoint or First Magnus and need some help, please don't hesitate to call me.
Take advantage of our quick doc program 95% LTV, SISA, 680 fico, conforming.
Wendi Cook
Provident Bank Mortgage/Provident Savings Bank
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
www.pbmwholesale.com
951-990-0328

[Big Inch]

I'm still in business and getting busier now with my competitors closing. If you had a loan with Greenpoint or First Magnus and need some help, please don't hesitate to call me.
Take advantage of our quick doc program 95% LTV, SISA, 680 fico, conforming.
Wendi Cook
Provident Bank Mortgage/Provident Savings Bank
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
www.pbmwholesale.com
951-990-0328
Hey Wendi are you working for Provident as a loan officer or AE?

[TOBTEK]

I'm still in business and getting busier now with my competitors closing. If you had a loan with Greenpoint or First Magnus and need some help, please don't hesitate to call me.
Take advantage of our quick doc program 95% LTV, SISA, 680 fico, conforming.
Wendi Cook
Provident Bank Mortgage/Provident Savings Bank
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
www.pbmwholesale.com
951-990-0328
I'll have to call you for a few files I'm TRYING to get placed. getting harder by the second.

[Tequila-John]

I'm still in business and getting busier now with my competitors closing. If you had a loan with Greenpoint or First Magnus and need some help, please don't hesitate to call me.
Take advantage of our quick doc program 95% LTV, SISA, 680 fico, conforming.
Wendi Cook
Provident Bank Mortgage/Provident Savings Bank
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
www.pbmwholesale.com
951-990-0328
I just got approved with Provident yesterday. Kick ASS pricing!!!!

[Wmc]

Hey Wendi are you working for Provident as a loan officer or AE?
AE

[Wmc]

I just got approved with Provident yesterday. Kick ASS pricing!!!!
Is Teddie your rep?

[Wmc]

I'll have to call you for a few files I'm TRYING to get placed. getting harder by the second.
Give me a call, not sure I can do them all, but we do still have some product left. Monday we are rolling out some Alt A products.

[essexjet]

Give me a call, not sure I can do them all, but we do still have some product left. Monday we are rolling out some Alt A products.
Trust me you do not want to work with Toby:D
Christina is our rep. and Provident has some awesome conforming rates.

[Big Inch]

Wendi can you email me and let me know what programs your company currently has. Assuming you are accepting new brokers. I was just going through all my links yesterday and clearing out all the dead lenders(took all day:) ) and came across my pbm link. I'm glad I saw your post because I was thinking they were gone too and deleted it but I used to use your bank and was always happy with them.
edgar@mtgmaker.com
thanks

[Wmc]

Wendi can you email me and let me know what programs your company currently has. Assuming you are accepting new brokers. I was just going through all my links yesterday and clearing out all the dead lenders(took all day:) ) and came across my pbm link. I'm glad I saw your post because I was thinking they were gone too and deleted it but I used to use your bank and was always happy with them.
edgar@mtgmaker.com
thanks
Certainly, coming your way. We are getting bombarded with new brokers right now. I will email you a package and if your interested you can send it in. Talk to you soon. Wendi

[Tequila-John]

Is Teddie your rep?
They have not assigned a rep as of yet. Can you be my rep?

[Wmc]

You would have to request me. You can tell Jodi Crocker we are personal friends and that is why you got approved. Her email is jcrocker@myprovident.com and cc: scoulter@myprovident.com (she handles the broker packages).
Thanks, Wendi

[Big Inch]

Certainly, coming your way. We are getting bombarded with new brokers right now. I will email you a package and if your interested you can send it in. Talk to you soon. Wendi
Got it. Thank you.

[Tequila-John]

You would have to request me. You can tell Jodi Crocker we are personal friends and that is why you got approved. Her email is jcrocker@myprovident.com and cc: scoulter@myprovident.com (she handles the broker packages).
Thanks, Wendi
do i tell them that Wendi from ***boat and I are friend? Or do you have a full name and email ? :)

[Wmc]

do i tell them that Wendi from ***boat and I are friend? Or do you have a full name and email ? :)
LOL. You can tell them that Wendi COOK and I are friends and she was the one that sent me the package, blah, blah. Add some fluff about how great I am, etc. (if you like). My email is wcook@myprovident.com.:)

[Ion]

As of now it is only affecting the sub-prime marketing and had a positive effect to the conforming side as interest rate fell since middle of last week.
The rate the fed gives banks was lowered, not the rate consumers are offered.

[Tequila-John]

LOL. You can tell them that Wendi COOK and I are friends and she was the one that sent me the package, blah, blah. Add some fluff about how great I am, etc. (if you like). My email is wcook@myprovident.com.:)
sent!

[VEGASBABY]

I hope that nobody on here worked for New Century Financial..And if so, I'll be happy to take your boat off your hands! For all the R/E optimists out there who are living in a bubble...what are you opinions of the recent fall out of sub prime lenders? First if New Century, next is Accredited, then Fremont. Hell, even Countrywide is getting killed. Seems like us REALISTS were correct again. I sure hope some people in the business have some cash stored away!:( Would'nt do it any other way. Always save for a rainy day!:)

[Baja Big Dog]

Heard on the news.....39,000 foreclosures in cai in July!!!!:mad:
That sucks..

[ChumpChange]

I'm still in business and getting busier now with my competitors closing. If you had a loan with Greenpoint or First Magnus and need some help, please don't hesitate to call me.
Take advantage of our quick doc program 95% LTV, SISA, 680 fico, conforming.
Wendi Cook
Provident Bank Mortgage/Provident Savings Bank
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
www.pbmwholesale.com
951-990-0328
Everybody in your commercial / business lending department just jumped ship a couple months ago. :eek:

[Classic Daycruiser]

My street has 6 houses for sale and 3 of them have been empty for over 6 months. I live in Northeast Phoenix area. Nobody is buying, and what is worse, nobody is looking to seriously.
I personally would not buy until 30 year interest rates get below 6% again. :idea:

[Wmc]

Everybody in your commercial / business lending department just jumped ship a couple months ago. :eek:
They did??? I had no idea. The few LO"s that I referred my commerical too are still with Provident and have been with the company for many years. But during this volatile market, I guess downsizing has to be done. It all makes since now why they told us we could start doing commerical and construction from wholesale in the next few weeks. I would love to start doing some commerical loans, that means more commission for me!! :D

[shueman]

Tip of the iceberg...Mortgage Lenders first, then CC Companies, Stock Buy-Backs, even Mutual Funds, anybody that handles credit paper...majority of the hedge fund notes/bonds were sold to Asian Banks...

[talkinghead]

I think this is a valid summary:
1. The gov't will do everything it can to prevent a "credit crunch" - READ THIS CAREFULLY: It is widely accepted that the cause of the Great Depression was essentially bank failures which meant people and businesses did not have widespread access to capital. Sound familiar?
I could easily see our economy going into a "general" recession within the next 3-4 quarters - obviously I am not the 1st person to make that observation.
2. Resale owners are not coming down on prices (overall) for a variety of reasons, and buyers won't/can't pay the high asking prices. This is a stalemate as someone has said before on this board.
3. Builders, with deeper pockets, are making deals on new houses.

[Big Inch]

My street has 6 houses for sale and 3 of them have been empty for over 6 months. I live in Northeast Phoenix area. Nobody is buying, and what is worse, nobody is looking to seriously.
I personally would not buy until 30 year interest rates get below 6% again. :idea:
I'll get you 5.875 today on a 30 year fixed if you pay 1 discount point. Want me to find you a house too :) edgar@mtgmaker.com

[talkinghead]

I think this sums it all up:
Safe link, I tested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tZlocBtKqk

[HotRod82]

I think this sums it all up:
Safe link, I tested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tZlocBtKqk
Apparently, the guy in the vid is upset about the RE market on Fire Island....

[Havasu1986]

I think this sums it all up:
Safe link, I tested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tZlocBtKqk
Since when do we pay property taxes to the federal goverment. :confused: I guess this guy has no clue to what he's talking about. :sleeping:

[talkinghead]

Directly or indirectly I'm sure much of the $$ funnels eventually to the IRS.
Besides that, if you took out the word "federal" and replaced it with "local" I'm sure it's completely valid.

[Havasu1986]

Directly or indirectly I'm sure much of the $$ funnels eventually to the IRS.
Besides that, if you took out the word "federal" and replaced it with "local" I'm sure it's completely valid.
Why is it the banks fault for the housing market to raise so high. Isn't the fact that the economy was doing so well that the consumer was willing to pay the higher prices to get a better home. :confused:

[talkinghead]

Why is it the banks fault for the housing market to raise so high. Isn't the fact that the economy was doing so well that the consumer was willing to pay the higher prices to get a better home. :confused:
Is that sort of like if I offered crack to a crack head and then claim: "It's not like I pointed a gun to his head and forced him to smoke the crack"
The demand was engineered to begin with.

[westair]

Is that sort of like if I offered crack to a crack head and then claim: "It's not like I pointed a gun to his head and forced him to smoke the crack"
The demand was engineered to begin with.
Come on now, people are not responsible for their own actions, its the banks fault because they gave them the loan!!!! Are you serious:jawdrop:
And the demand was engineered .... WTF

[talkinghead]

Come on now, people are not responsible for their own actions, its the banks fault because they gave them the loan!!!! Are you serious:jawdrop:
And the demand was engineered .... WTF
Your right, I didn't think of that...
Also, the gov't was actually smart to step in by infusing money into the markets, otherwise this whole mortgage mess would be a lot worse.

[cjordan]

How do the people carrying spec homes in Havasu feel right now about the RE market?....Those monthly payments sure come around quick don't they....A lot of the so called "experts" knew exactly what they were getting into and bought the hype that RE could never go down....or if it did theirs wouldn't....besides in parts of Cali it always goes up 10% a year, right...?? No money down (or little) on ever increasing building costs utilizing HUGE leverage by these so called "experts" was a recipe for disaster...I think its safe to say some of these "experts" never thought about the flip side of leverage...now people are scrambling trying to "dump" those payments, lots of homes and boats for sale....

[cjordan]

It could be worse, we could own a home in the Nati.
How could that be worse...:) I'll take my 3 acres and 4300 sq/ft 1yr old custom ranch for what a 1000 sq/ft dump would run in Cali....;)
Worse, would be to have gotten sucked into the Miami condo scene......UGLY down there....In another 18-24 months there will be some deals to swipe up as foreclosures get worse...

[cjordan]

:D Being a Bengal fan I can see how that might be a deal breaker:idea:
From Reuters...today....
CORONA, Calif (Reuters) - Bhaviesh and Varsha Shah bought their dream home in a new development east of Los Angeles two years ago, planted flowers around an emerald lawn and picked out wicker furniture for sitting outside on cool afternoons.
Today the view from their porch is a street pocked with boarded windows and dead lawns -- homes now repossessed after buyers failed to make mounting mortgage payments.
The Shahs live on a street with 10 large homes of 3,000 square feet or more, four of them now in foreclosure.
Although they are surviving the mortgage meltdown, their dream development -- like many in this arid corner of Southern California known as the Inland Empire -- is an early casualty.
"We're not surprised. We had a feeling it was coming," said Varsha Shah.
They found out which way the wind was blowing about a year ago when several families moved into some of the homes and never bothered to water the grass or pick up beer cans. Unlike the Shahs, they didn't seem to be in Towne Square and its 49 Spanish-style and 1920s-inspired Craftsman homes for the long haul.
The Inland Empire, 50 miles east of Los Angeles, was a latecomer to the housing boom in California as buyers squeezed out of high-price coastal Los Angeles and Orange counties found large homes going up on the region's vast supply of vacant land.
And it has been one of the most hard hit by foreclosures.
The Inland Empire's combined Riverside and San Bernardino counties reported the fourth highest number of foreclosure filings of any of the nation's 229 largest metro areas in July, behind Atlanta, Los Angeles and Detroit, according to market tracker RealtyTrac.
OWNERS GO 'UPSIDE DOWN'
Survivors of Towne Square find themselves not only with unsightly, empty properties next door, but also with home values plummeting amid the fire sales on foreclosed homes.
So selling and moving to a better neighborhood is not much of an option because many owe more on their mortgage than they would get for the sale -- what the industry calls "upside down."
And real estate agents note that California's market is likely to rebound as it has in the past, underpinned by high population growth.
"Everything goes in cycles. I think we'll be OK if people don't panic," said Patricia Patton, who has been a real estate agent in the area for over 14 years.
Joe and Mary Gordon don't feel much like sticking around, but have little choice.
They bought an approximately 4,000 square-foot (371 sq meter) home on the street behind the Shahs for $741,000, thinking it would be their last home after moving from Orange County, just west of the Inland Empire.
Two homes on the Gordon's street are going through foreclosure and one of them, comparable in size to theirs, is being offered by the bank for $550,000.
The Gordons fear they will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity. "We have no recourse. We'll have to live here eight to ten years before we get our equity back," said Joe.
Bob Taylor, president of the development's homeowners association, said his family thought about moving, but with the installation of a pool and landscaping, they didn't think they would break even after the market turned south.
The frustrated families stuck in Towne Square are critical of the developer Centex Corp. for failing to exclude investors and scammers who bought 14 to 17 of the 49 homes in what was billed as a "family centered executive development."
"Centex has discouraged speculative investments in our primary-home neighborhoods," Eric Bruner, Centex's director of public relations, told Reuters in response to homeowners' complaints.
CHARLES MANSON
The families believe the investors were not just people flipping houses for a quick profit, but also a group of scammers taking advantage of lax lending rules that permitted 100 percent financing with no money down and minimal documentation.
For the Gordons and Taylors, these are the people who ruined the neighborhood by using their homes like revolving night clubs, cramming cars into the cul de sacs and threatening neighbors who complained.
The Corona Police Department said it was called about neighborhood disturbances on Towne Square's Summerset St., where the Shahs live, 35 times in 2006. The street that runs parallel, Springfield Circle received 28 complaints.
"How did we feel? Sick!" Joe Gordon yelled, throwing up his hands. "We'd go to work, then just come in the house and hide. You never knew what was going to happen."
Now, many of the investors have disappeared and their homes have gone into foreclosure.
Despite the bad days spent in Towne Square, Bob Taylor said his family of six is here to stay and even optimistic that nice, responsible neighbors will eventually move into the foreclosed homes.
"After what we've been through for the past two years -- short of Charlie Manson moving in -- it can't be any worse," he said, referring to the famous American murderer.
© Reuters 2007. All rights reserved.

[cdog]

Stupid hurts!:D

[C-2]

Just this past weekend we were cruizing the newer tracts in Norco. Three years later and about 1/3 of the homes still don't have front lawns or any (any) landscaping.
Granite front lawn and For Sale sign - not good.:(

[Rexone]

How do the people carrying spec homes in Havasu feel right now about the RE market?....Those monthly payments sure come around quick don't they....A lot of the so called "experts" knew exactly what they were getting into and bought the hype that RE could never go down....or if it did theirs wouldn't....besides in parts of Cali it always goes up 10% a year, right...?? No money down (or little) on ever increasing building costs utilizing HUGE leverage by these so called "experts" was a recipe for disaster...I think its safe to say some of these "experts" never thought about the flip side of leverage...now people are scrambling trying to "dump" those payments, lots of homes and boats for sale....
Interesting question
A link from late 95 on the subject. (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101288)
Not picking on anyone in particular in posting the link, it's just the one that I found easily. There were probably 10 other threads posted in by those related to RE or Loans along the same track not only from Havasu but from So Cal as well.
It's amazing to me that people were brainwashed into thinking what goes up cannot come down, especially with the rapid and over-inflated prices on homes throughout the country.
There are several homes on my street, one right across the street that have been for sale and in the case of 2, vacant for pushing a year now. One is unkept and probably bank owned now. It was listed for awhile but not any longer with any sign at least. The other the family moved out into a bigger home and still owns it I think so it is not an eyesore although I'm sure their wallet is getting a little sore by now. Pretty typical I think. Several more for sale over 6 and occupied.

[Jyruiz]

Interesting question
A link from late 2005 on the subject. (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101288)
Not picking on anyone in particular in posting the link, it's just the one that I found easily. There were probably 10 other threads posted in by those related to RE or Loans along the same track not only from Havasu but from So Cal as well.
It's amazing to me that people were brainwashed into thinking what goes up cannot come down, especially with the rapid and over-inflated prices on homes throughout the country.
There are several homes on my street, one right across the street that have been for sale and in the case of 2, vacant for pushing a year now. One is unkept and probably bank owned now. It was listed for awhile but not any longer with any sign at least. The other the family moved out into a bigger home and still owns it I think so it is not an eyesore although I'm sure their wallet is getting a little sore by now. Pretty typical I think. Several more for sale over 6 and occupied.
Gave you a little help on the year.:)

[HocusPocus]

Interesting question
A link from late 05 on the subject. (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101288)
Not picking on anyone in particular in posting the link, it's just the one that I found easily. There were probably 10 other threads posted in by those related to RE or Loans along the same track not only from Havasu but from So Cal as well.
It's amazing to me that people were brainwashed into thinking what goes up cannot come down, especially with the rapid and over-inflated prices on homes throughout the country.
.
some interesting reading in that thread for sure.

[Rexone]

Gave you a little help on the year.:)
Thanks, I'm constantly being told I live in the 90's ... wonder why. :D