To fire a guy or not.......advice please.

[Mandelon]

I am facing a decision about one of my employees He's worked for me before. I let him go a few years ago but rehired him 4 or 5 months ago since we've been sooo busy. Last time he was let go for innaccuracies in his time card and general lameness... I was hoping he had matured a bit, and he has, He was thanking me around the holidays for being cool about his shortcomings and told me how hard he was trying to get his sh*t together.
On a lot of our projects the guys are paid basically piecework. They get 40% of the net on whatever job they run. The faster guys are making over 50 grand a year. That's for a painter/handyman type position. This guy will be lucky to make half of that. He's a nice guy, but just isn't a "finisher". And even when he did finish a project he'd leave all his tools there, so he'd have to go all the way back the next day....He's run out of gas 3 times in the last 6 months. Always forgets supplies and has to go back to the store. He'd be a money loser paid by the hour. On percentage, its OK. He's slow but his work is good quality.
Last week he disappeared completely. Monday, tuesday wednesday...not a call, no warning, tools left behind and job uncompleted. We check the sheriff's website to see if he'd been in lockup. Thursday rolls around and finally his cousin who is his helper, (who also hasn't been to work all week either) walks in. Apparently our guy has admitted himself to an alcohol treatment center for a week of detox.
Anyhow he calls me today and wonders if he has a job. I wonder too. I like the guy. He's just turned 30 and is still as dependable as an 8 year old kid.
Now I've always tried to do right by others, help out when I can. Sometimes it costs me, but I'm still a sucker like that I guess. So he's trying to get it together, do I give him one more shot at it, or tell him to pound sand???
We are busy as heck and I need the help. He's not a huge asset, but I know what his limits are, and we can work around his shortcomings. But as an employer you need to keep the respect of your other people or they will all get lazy.
I could always break out the aluminum pipe and have a go at the shop radio.......
One thought I had was to tell him to stay home for the rest of the week and ponder his situation. Then on Monday to have him come in and plead his case to all the other guys. Like on Survivor, he'd plead his case before the tribal council and they'd vote....I'd have them write out their choice on a sheet of paper and put it in a container......then count them out.
One chance............or..................adios amigo......
The guys I have now all know I am easy to work for. If they need time off for family stuff or whatever, its no big deal...we work it out. I've had mostly the same guys with me for years. Some over 12 years now. We don't pay medical, no retirement, just flexible with their needs and a way to earn a decent buck with their hands.
Thoughts? Can i even take a vote or is it a violation of some kind???

[riverbound]

I would do the same thing you are. Pretty much you have already let him go for job abndinment. at this point he is coming back in to re interview for his job. You are having the company be involved with the interview process, I see nothing wrong with that.

[YeLLowBoaT]

He's just turned 30 and is still as dependable as an 8 year old kid.
I think that says all that needs to be said...

[Phat Matt]

Leave Puptent alone! :mad:
:D

[bear down]

mandy,
your a very generous boss. he is my evaluation of this guy. he is in need of help bdue to his dependancy but has seeked help which is good, but he abandoned his job which is a no no. you gave this guy a second chance and he's failed u. you have two types of employees...superstars and falling stars and this guy is a falling star which makes you give more work to your superstars to cover for his short comings. never adapt your business for a mediocre employee. what if he shows up to work shiat faced or hung over and gets himself or others hurt, osha can be very hard and non- forgiving if they new you knowningly kept this guy working. Hire slow and fire fast. don't give your great employees unecessary work that helps a slacker, they won't appreciate it and will take it as a sign of weekness. good luck

[bigq]

I would not go the vote route. Might make him feel like a shit and I don't think make you look good either. I don't think anything you say will change him, like a husband and wife can't change each other.
Maybe give small work to help keep him on his feet and let him know it is against your better judgement and hope that he changes his act. Until he does just know that he will be a slacker.
Or....set him free, but it should be your call not the others.
Just my thoughts

[ratso]

I've been in the same situation a couple of times. These two, after going through times with them not showing up or coming in late constantly, I hired more help to take up their slack... that cut into their pay since they are on commission. Also, I started doing some of the high dollar jobs along with the new help, so when my regular guys start seeing these jobs that might pay them a grand or two a week yanked out from under them... they came to ME! I asked what their problem was, especially since I didn't have a problem with them coming and going as they please, and with work getting built up and not turning jobs out, I just figured they could use some extra help... after all, being 2 or 3 months behind in the boat business in the summer months is not acceptable. They saw the light finally... Now these two are here 5 or 6 days a week and on time every day. My main guy has been here since about 92, and the other for about 8 years now... and they are better than I could have ever hoped for. I just don't believe in bitching out my help to get a message across, and it's not any of the other workers business. You run the show... they do their jobs... and you alone make the rules and decide who stays or who is sent down the road.

[Biglue]

How much do you trust him? If I were you, I'd ask for proof of him being admitted into a rehab center. His helper being gone also is a little fishy from what I read. If he can't provide you with proof, more than likely he'll just go away. In the case he actually did go through detox, this could be a genuine attempt to help himself. Who knows, perhaps he realizes he's pissing away the opportunity your presenting him. With that being said, I would put him on a 30-90 probation period. If he manages to screw up again, he gets canned. If he works out, everyone lives happily ever after. At the end of the day, you're responsible for the job he does. It just depends on how far out on a limb you want to go for him. That's the reason I asked how much you trust him. The few times I have had to deal with alcoholics or people with a dependency, it has never worked out. They never get through the probation period and it makes it easier on you as the boss's concience. I think your heart is in the right place, but he's still your liability.
Hope that helps. Good luck.

[bigq]

and hope he doesn't read ***boat:D

[Misogynist]

That's a tough call... if the guys work was just so-so..... I'd flush him. But if his work is good, it's a hard call. I like the idea of having all the co-workers vote on whether or not to keep him, because they are effected by his behavior too. If they vote to can his ass, then the burden of the decision is not just yours. I've had so many employees over the years that were just shite. You couldn't count on them for anything. The worst was poor workmanship. What is the point of paying someone to do something if you have to do it over?. If you have to supervise every thing they do, then you might just as well do it yourself and save the money paid out in wages. If the co-workers vote to keep him........ then he has to face them also if he fuggs up again.

[Mandelon]

Good points made.
I have always tried to help out someone who needs it.
I know he is trying to be more mature, and I've seen progress towards that end. He wants to more grown up, have a family, a house (payment), etc. I believe he will get better. Maybe this is the turning point. He is trying to set an example for his little cousin. the cousin didn't come to work because he has no wheels, and depends on our guy to bring him. The cousin called in, so he's OK. I felt bad for the kid too, he came here from Phoenix to learn the trade from his older relative.....
But all that said, I am pretty sure he'll screw up again in a couple of weeks. Its not freaking rocket science we do, just paint and repairs lately with all these repo houses....:idea:

[Baja Big Dog]

I am facing a decision about one of my employees He's worked for me before. I let him go a few years ago but rehired him 4 or 5 months ago since we've been sooo busy. Last time he was let go for innaccuracies in his time card and general lameness... I was hoping he had matured a bit, and he has, He was thanking me around the holidays for being cool about his shortcomings and told me how hard he was trying to get his sh*t together. hes not trying very hard is he?
On a lot of our projects the guys are paid basically piecework. They get 40% of the net on whatever job they run. The faster guys are making over 50 grand a year. That's for a painter/handyman type position. This guy will be lucky to make half of that. He's a nice guy, but just isn't a "finisher". And even when he did finish a project he'd leave all his tools there, so he'd have to go all the way back the next day....He's run out of gas 3 times in the last 6 months. Always forgets supplies and has to go back to the store. He'd be a money loser paid by the hour. On percentage, its OK. He's slow but his work is good quality.
Last week he disappeared completely. Monday, tuesday wednesday...not a call, no warning, tools left behind and job uncompleted. We check the sheriff's website to see if he'd been in lockup. Thursday rolls around and finally his cousin who is his helper, (who also hasn't been to work all week either) walks in. Apparently our guy has admitted himself to an alcohol treatment center for a week of detox. Being a recovering alcoholic you dont go to "detox" for a week and expect any results, did he show you any paperwork, maybe something explaining where he was which happens to be the only place on earth that doesnt have a phone!
Anyhow he calls me today and wonders if he has a job. I wonder too. I like the guy. He's just turned 30 and is still as dependable as an 8 year old kid.
Asset or liability?
Now I've always tried to do right by others, help out when I can. Sometimes it costs me, but I'm still a sucker like that I guess. So he's trying to get it together, do I give him one more shot at it, or tell him to pound sand???
Id give him another chance because he has shown such excellent results from the other chances you gave him??We are busy as heck and I need the help. He's not a huge asset, but I know what his limits are, and we can work around his shortcomings. But as an employer you need to keep the respect of your other people or they will all get lazy.
I could always break out the aluminum pipe and have a go at the shop radio.......
One thought I had was to tell him to stay home for the rest of the week and ponder his situation. Then on Monday to have him come in and plead his case to all the other guys. I thought you owned the business....Like on Survivor, he'd plead his case before the tribal council and they'd vote....I'd have them write out their choice on a sheet of paper and put it in a container......then count them out.
One chance............or..................adios amigo......AADIOS...
The guys I have now all know I am easy to work for. If they need time off for family stuff or whatever, its no big deal...we work it out. I've had mostly the same guys with me for years. Some over 12 years now. We don't pay medical, no retirement, just flexible with their needs and a way to earn a decent buck with their hands.
Thoughts? Can i even take a vote or is it a violation of some kind???
You dont need a vote, you are the judge, jury and the hangman. Dont leave it up to your employees to "vote" that may feel sorry for the guy, or dont want to be responsible for the outcome of the vote.
Shit can the guy and let his next employer be his babysitter.

[DMOORE]

Time to let him go. Your his employer, not a babysitter. You gave him a second chance, and he has failed it. There is an old saying " You spend 90% of the time on 10% of the employees." Those 10 percent are not the ones you want to spend time on. After you let him go, you'll be amazed at how much stress will be lifted from your shoulders. With these type of guys, there is always SOMETHING. Plenty of good people looking for work.
Darrell.

[Biglue]

You dont need a vote, you are the judge, jury and the hangman. Dont leave it up to your employees to "vote" that may feel sorry for the guy, or dont want to be responsible for the outcome of the vote.
Shit can the guy and let his next employer be his babysitter.
Good point. One thing I have seen in a situation similar is that people start thinking "like bosses" after you "the boss" ask them for their input. I saw one guy's demise over thinking he was untouchable because a manager would ask him opinions on things like what Mandelon is thinking.

[Kilrtoy]

I think you are helping the guy out,
which is great .
But as the rule goes
three strikes and your out
I would let him know, this is his final chance! any more screw ups and he is gone.

[257]

Well
i tried to help and employee after drug test was positive
got him to rehab, and after about 2 weeks back to the
same i have come to 1 time try to help 2 times shame
on me for keeping him your employee has no respect for
you it looks like or he would not be missing work so i would
say its your liabilty if hes at work and gets hurt or hurts
some one and do you think he cares i dont think so, why
put your business in that position just me 02

[Garrddogg]

the guys shiatty slow work might have been due to his chem dependancy, once he sobers up and or cleans up he could be a diamond in the rough and could turn out to be one of the good guys.. Tell him that a condition of keepin the job is to stay chem free tell him you want to have a "court card" signed and you want to see it every week!!:eek: If hes serious about stayin clean and sober he should he humble and wont have a problem with it. If he has a problem with it well that proly means hes workin it and he should "kick rocks!" (just a thought)
Force (was once that guy) 26

[hal300t]

put it on the scale, aggravation of him being on the payroll vs. inconvenience of not haing that extra guy. If this guy stays sober he could end up being good and long term, if he continues to f up over drinking.....
who knows. The good thing is your busy!

[finsfan4life]

I am facing a decision about one of my employees He's worked for me before. I let him go a few years ago but rehired him 4 or 5 months ago since we've been sooo busy. Last time he was let go for innaccuracies in his time card and general lameness... I was hoping he had matured a bit, and he has, He was thanking me around the holidays for being cool about his shortcomings and told me how hard he was trying to get his sh*t together.
On a lot of our projects the guys are paid basically piecework. They get 40% of the net on whatever job they run. The faster guys are making over 50 grand a year. That's for a painter/handyman type position. This guy will be lucky to make half of that. He's a nice guy, but just isn't a "finisher". And even when he did finish a project he'd leave all his tools there, so he'd have to go all the way back the next day....He's run out of gas 3 times in the last 6 months. Always forgets supplies and has to go back to the store. He'd be a money loser paid by the hour. On percentage, its OK. He's slow but his work is good quality.
Last week he disappeared completely. Monday, tuesday wednesday...not a call, no warning, tools left behind and job uncompleted. We check the sheriff's website to see if he'd been in lockup. Thursday rolls around and finally his cousin who is his helper, (who also hasn't been to work all week either) walks in. Apparently our guy has admitted himself to an alcohol treatment center for a week of detox.
Anyhow he calls me today and wonders if he has a job. I wonder too. I like the guy. He's just turned 30 and is still as dependable as an 8 year old kid.
Now I've always tried to do right by others, help out when I can. Sometimes it costs me, but I'm still a sucker like that I guess. So he's trying to get it together, do I give him one more shot at it, or tell him to pound sand???
We are busy as heck and I need the help. He's not a huge asset, but I know what his limits are, and we can work around his shortcomings. But as an employer you need to keep the respect of your other people or they will all get lazy.
I could always break out the aluminum pipe and have a go at the shop radio.......
One thought I had was to tell him to stay home for the rest of the week and ponder his situation. Then on Monday to have him come in and plead his case to all the other guys. Like on Survivor, he'd plead his case before the tribal council and they'd vote....I'd have them write out their choice on a sheet of paper and put it in a container......then count them out.
One chance............or..................adios amigo......
The guys I have now all know I am easy to work for. If they need time off for family stuff or whatever, its no big deal...we work it out. I've had mostly the same guys with me for years. Some over 12 years now. We don't pay medical, no retirement, just flexible with their needs and a way to earn a decent buck with their hands.
Thoughts? Can i even take a vote or is it a violation of some kind???
Mandelon, soundz like u did all you can do for the guy. I am not sure what kind of life experiences you've had but I'm sure you could see the future on this one. Its soundz like u have a big heart, but it soundz like its time to "Nip it at the butt". Also, from what u wrote, think about how lucky you have been with not having a major problem with the guy. Think of the horrible things that could have happen to your business!!!
In my line of work, I deal with many, can we say, "undesirables". This dude soundz like a typical tweaker or has some kind other major disfunctions. Soundz like he might of "skimmed off the top" from u before, just imagine the horrible possibilities that can lie ahead.
Mandelon, I am sure there is a lot more negative things that occurred (like shortcomings) that you probably dont even know about.
I see a pattern from what you have told us, and from my experience with theses kind of people, NOTHING is going to change....
Hope my opinion is not to harsh Mandelon, but at least you could never say you didnt try...!!!
Finsfan..

[h2oski2fast]

I would do the same thing you are. Pretty much you have already let him go for job abndinment. at this point he is coming back in to re interview for his job. You are having the company be involved with the interview process, I see nothing wrong with that.
Good view. But........ screw me once, shame of you....screw me twice, shame on me.

[missboatnam1]

i think you sould give him a chance, sounds like you would be helping him out...and sounds like he needs help!! just dont over-expect from him!! ;)

[Rexone]

I'd let him go. But that said I know where you're coming from because I've been down this road a few times with charity cases. If you give him another chance lay the law down in a manner where he knows what's expected (show up and put out 100% every day) and also knows he's gonna be gone if he falls short. Then fire him if he falls short.
I have to agree with Bear Down and Bigg, don't revamp your business to adapt to a mediocre employee and I'd stay away from the vote route for reasons already mentioned and also it might open the door for a wrongful termination lawsuit if your employees vote him out (not sure not a lawyer). And don't discount the liability factor with osha being he's a known alcoholic or whatever his substance of choice is, especially if he's using power tools and / or driving your vehicles.

[nodigg]

Its always a dilema but you already know what the best thing is to do for your future. Get rid of him while he has made it easy for you and move on.
EDIT = LIABILITY!

[andy01]

Now that you know he has a drinking problem it could become your problem. In CA, an employer is obligated to pay for rehab and hold the job if an employee comes to you and tells you he has a drinking problem and asks for help. So, by keeping him, you are putting yourself at liability if he falls off the wagon and asks for help in the future.
Do you have any policies? Do you have a 3-day no call/show policy? If not, you certainly should to prevent this from happening with any of your staff. Do you have a discipline policy? If so, you could skip to the final step (just before termination) so he knows he's on his last life with you.
You have a very valid point about setting an example to the other employees. They may see how much leeway this guy gets and then either try to push it to see how much they can get, or if you fire them for, what they think is a lame reason - may turn around and try to sue you for discriminating against them when you gave this other guy chances.
Let him know you want to help him but can only go so far, as you have a company to run and family to feed. Don't put it up to the other employees, that may embarass him and violate his right to confidentiality. Meet with him separately and put some positive in the meeting, let him know you think his work is good but could inprove in time areas EX: leaving tools behind to go back and get them after the job is done. If you pass the message on that you are trying to help him but he is at the end of the rope it might be enough to help him turn course. If he is already on the right course then seeing that you (his boss) believes in him might be enought to help him believe in himself. I say help him out.
The only other liability I see is that, you having this information now puts you on notice of his illness. So, if you give him another chance and he drinks at work, drives home drunk in one of your company trucks and gets in an accident or worse, kills someone - you will probably be sued and held liable because you knew about his illness and chose to let him continue to drive for your company. Can you put him in someone else's truck until he shows he's back on track and reliable?
BTW if you need someone to right the policy for you let me know.
Andy

[Phat Matt]

Kudos to Mandelon. :p

[boatsnblondes]

I agree a lot with Rex. I would not set it to a vote. No need to air his "dirty laundry" to the guys, and humiliate him. Which doing that might do. I do agree that IF, and thats a big IF, you decide to keep him, he needs to have rules, boundries, lines not to cross. Limitations, if you will. Keep records on everything you do, if worse comes to worse, make him quit, don't fire him, thaen he hits you for unemployment. If it comes to that, keep those recores,and fight it. I think this, if he isn't stealing from you, I tend to want to try to work with people. If he does "good" work as you say, I wonder if you can't work around the rest, within the limits you set for him?? good luck with this one....

[Mrs. 20]

We are business owners as well, and have been through this more than once. Whenever we keep people around like that, it always ends up worse. I think you know already what you need to do, or you probably wouldn't have thought of doing it in the first place. Good luck. :(

[C-2]

If you can get rid of him, do it. He's 30 years old, time to grow TFU. You can't help everybody.
No tribal vote stuff and think of a clever way (usually setting standards/goals impossible for him to achieve) to let him go so he doesn't go all Brokavich on you and decide to fawk with you and your biz.

[C-2]

And oh yeah, I love HB, it's like a big social experiment. :D
Where's Brown when you need him?

[sorry dog]

And oh yeah, I love HB, it's like a big social experiment. :D
Where's Brown when you need him?
I think he checked himself into .... treatment.

[SummerBreeze]

Reading your post you seem like a giving person. I have owned a few business and had to deal with this type of employee before. It's hard to dump someone. I would let this guy go. Business is business and this guy is effecting your business.
Move on

[shueman]

Lots of good feedback here... :cool:
Gotta let him go before is impacts your business. He needs help, and needs the support of his family / friends / social services to get his head on straight.
One bad apple...

[ahhell]

3 days no show, no call.....no job
id get the boot with 1 day no show no call

[phebus]

O.K. Mandy I know you better then that, and I can read between the lines:
The guy drinks too much
(his wife is hot)
He doesn't show up on time
(his wife's sister is hot)
He disappears at times
(his wife is still hot)
He leaves his tools at the jobsite
(his wife's sister has a nice ass)
On and on....................:D :) :D

[little rowe boat]

Tell him he has one last chance and include in this last chance conversation all his shortcommings, like running out of gas 3 times, leaving tools behind and whatever else he does or doesn't do. Tell him all of this is unacceptable and any infraction will lead to his imediate termination of employment.

[OutCole'd]

You should fire him right now. Then send him to Vegas and I would hire him in a second. :D The labor pool here is the worst!!!!!!!!
We no longer hold an interview, just check for a pulse. :(
Toss him Mandy, like has been said, no reason to lower your standards for one person, then eveyone expects a break.

[ratso]

You should fire him right now. Then send him to Vegas and I would hire him in a second. :D The labor pool here is the worst!!!!!!!!
We no longer hold an interview, just check for a pulse. :(
Toss him Mandy, like has been said, no reason to lower your standards for one person, then eveyone expects a break.
Tell him there are plenty of illegals that would love to do his work for half the pay...;)

[Dave C]

good bits of advice here:
1) Don't hold a vote. That information is private and should be kept private.
2) Now that you know he has a dependency problem, now you have to supervise him more because you are liable while he is working for you. You should make sure he is "OK" when he shows up. Do you want that aggravation?
Although its fairly obvious you should make it clear if you rehire him that there will be no "using" or being under the influence during work hours.

[HM]

I agree a lot with Rex. I would not set it to a vote. No need to air his "dirty laundry" to the guys, and humiliate him. Which doing that might do. I do agree that IF, and thats a big IF, you decide to keep him, he needs to have rules, boundries, lines not to cross. Limitations, if you will. Keep records on everything you do, if worse comes to worse, make him quit, don't fire him, thaen he hits you for unemployment. If it comes to that, keep those recores,and fight it. I think this, if he isn't stealing from you, I tend to want to try to work with people. If he does "good" work as you say, I wonder if you can't work around the rest, within the limits you set for him?? good luck with this one....
I called Teague, and they said they would have taken him back in a second and paid him for all the days he missed. :D

[Mr. Naudio]

I think if a person dose not show up or call in for three days they quit.
If you have other people who can pic up the slack,by working just a tad harder or longer reward them with some of the pay you save on the no-show.
Somtimes the stress is not worth the efort of keeping a slacker.

[phebus]

I bet he showed up on payday.

[Dan Lorenze]

I think if a person dose not show up or call in for three days they quit.
If you have other people who can pic up the slack,by working just a tad harder or longer reward them with some of the pay you save on the no-show.
Somtimes the stress is not worth the efort of keeping a slacker.
That's pretty much how I see it too...
A few years ago the company I was working for was going through the same exact thing. For some reason the owners kept the guy on. His name was John, this guy could build anything with his hands, a true talent, he would go around town constructing large camera cranes in the biggest venues in town, all under the influence of meth... The owners just kind of ignored it for a while and just tried to help him out, kind of like a project.. Then, things started missing like cameras and office funiture and a real nice enclosed trailer (that I always used) got ripped off with lots of stuff inside, all on his watch. He totalled his car then started "borrowing" the company vehicles and night when everyone left. Finally after countless "no shows" at the shop one owner stepped in a said he was testing him for drugs.. A drug tester shows up and takes John to the john and watches him Pee, he fails instantly... They give him another shot a month later and fails again blaming a faulty test.... blah,blah,blah
They finally fired him... John ended up losing everything he had and hit rock bottom. Total junky and to top it off his best friend ended up sleeping with his stripper GF. John was a MESS.............
Two years go by and John shows up back at the shop, weighing 50 pounds more than when he left, he went to rehab and became sober.. They re-hired him and he's doing just fine... He now has a daughter that is his life... I'm just glad he made it though all the bad years..
The company spent way too much time trying to help him, but John had to hit rock bottom to help himself out..

[BarryMac]

You know what they say Mande, Screw me once shame on me, screw me twice shame on you. Later dude, there are lots of people out there that want the job...

[meaniam]

I am facing a decision about one of my employees He's worked for me before. I let him go a few years ago but rehired him 4 or 5 months ago since we've been sooo busy. Last time he was let go for innaccuracies in his time card and general lameness... I was hoping he had matured a bit, and he has, He was thanking me around the holidays for being cool about his shortcomings and told me how hard he was trying to get his sh*t together.
On a lot of our projects the guys are paid basically piecework. They get 40% of the net on whatever job they run. The faster guys are making over 50 grand a year. That's for a painter/handyman type position. This guy will be lucky to make half of that. He's a nice guy, but just isn't a "finisher". And even when he did finish a project he'd leave all his tools there, so he'd have to go all the way back the next day....He's run out of gas 3 times in the last 6 months. Always forgets supplies and has to go back to the store. He'd be a money loser paid by the hour. On percentage, its OK. He's slow but his work is good quality.
Last week he disappeared completely. Monday, tuesday wednesday...not a call, no warning, tools left behind and job uncompleted. We check the sheriff's website to see if he'd been in lockup. Thursday rolls around and finally his cousin who is his helper, (who also hasn't been to work all week either) walks in. Apparently our guy has admitted himself to an alcohol treatment center for a week of detox.
Anyhow he calls me today and wonders if he has a job. I wonder too. I like the guy. He's just turned 30 and is still as dependable as an 8 year old kid.
Now I've always tried to do right by others, help out when I can. Sometimes it costs me, but I'm still a sucker like that I guess. So he's trying to get it together, do I give him one more shot at it, or tell him to pound sand???
We are busy as heck and I need the help. He's not a huge asset, but I know what his limits are, and we can work around his shortcomings. But as an employer you need to keep the respect of your other people or they will all get lazy.
I could always break out the aluminum pipe and have a go at the shop radio.......
One thought I had was to tell him to stay home for the rest of the week and ponder his situation. Then on Monday to have him come in and plead his case to all the other guys. Like on Survivor, he'd plead his case before the tribal council and they'd vote....I'd have them write out their choice on a sheet of paper and put it in a container......then count them out.
One chance............or..................adios amigo......
The guys I have now all know I am easy to work for. If they need time off for family stuff or whatever, its no big deal...we work it out. I've had mostly the same guys with me for years. Some over 12 years now. We don't pay medical, no retirement, just flexible with their needs and a way to earn a decent buck with their hands.
Thoughts? Can i even take a vote or is it a violation of some kind???
wow what a deal. it would be hard in your spot. REHAB IS FOR QUITERS!!! :D but i would have to say if this man checked in to fix a habit, that is most likely the reason he is so unaccountable. he is at least making the steps. and who knows why. it maybe wife, family law. or you but he has done it. his timing may not have been right for you. who knows why he had decided to do it right there and then. and it could be better his work production should increase and quality may even become better but subjecting him to peers could open you upto litigation and is not right. the addiction to alchol is a bad thing and ruins peoples lives. and makes them to be the person that you discribe here. make his recovery part of his probation. as you are now vested in it.
remember most people that have a bad addiction denie it. no matter what im sure it will be unconfortable for him. this is his first step to being the better person.

[SHOTKALLIN]

Mandy you are a great guy! You gave this guy a second chance. Its really hard to get second chances in life when you deserve them. It is not your fault or problem that this guy didn't work out the second time. You did the honorable thing. Now do the right thing and let him go. He is not your son so let his Mamma worry about him.:D
just my .02

[meaniam]

one more thing to consider. i belive rehab doesnt allow outside contact for a bit. weather 24 hour or 72. i think it is the time it takes to detox. either way there should be some paperwork. the man is eligble for disabilty and protected under those rights. which firing him while he is under doctors care could open up a can of worms. if you do chose to fire him. you may want to consult with someone first. make him a 1099 employee and as an independent contractor. you will win. and most likely avoid unemployment ect. and can remove work from him easy. unfortunatly he will lose his insurance if you do this.
i see this as a you can win situation.

[Moneypitt]

3 days no show, legal job abandonment....So, IF you give him another chance write it out that he quit, he is re hired, (again) but is on probation for 90 days, and have him sign it........This covers your ass.........You can't control what he does in his "off" hours, but if his habits/behavior affects his ability to do the job...........See Ya!!..........Write it down!!!!!!........MP

[Ziggy]

Unless he is an officially recovered alcoholic you run the risk of liability on the job.......
.
I once had to let go one of my best guys because of a similar same situation.
May I suggest you talk to your liability carrier? ;) Especially since you have been informed of his condition.

[INFINITEJJ]

I think you are helping the guy out,
which is great .
But as the rule goes
three strikes and your out
I would let him know, this is his final chance! any more screw ups and he is gone.
What he said.
OMG, I just agreed w/ KILR.
One, maybe two, but never three.

[Sportin' Wood]

I did not read any replies I will go back and read after, sorry if its allready been covered. I did not want to have influence in my reply.
If your busy and you need help, work him. Give him the sh!t jobs no one wants and let him go first when it slows down. Treat him like a piece of meat that earns you money. In my experience born losers never get thier act together. If he can make you money take advantage of it otherwise hit the road Jack. Asking the other employee's thier opinion will get you no where.
I tried being the good boss and being all about the team. Your still "the Man" Mandy no matter how hard you try to make it a team. They will turn on you. Been there done that.

[Flyinbowtie]

Mandelon, a couple of the things I picked up in your first post really jumped out at me.
-You've already fired and re-hired this man once.
-If he was an hourly employee, he'd be costing you money, not making you money.
-Your business requires a level of self-initative and self-management amongst your staff, and the ability to make basic decisions about the task without constant supervision.
Frankly, I think you have been more than fair with this man. He demonstrated a total lack of respect for you and your business (not to mention his job) when he disappeared without notice for several days, no matter what the reason, and I just don't think rehab was it.
He repeatedly disrespects the business leaving tools laying around.
He is not a skilled person whom you can count on to manage an important and/or high-skill level task.
Think about the risk/benefit analysis with this guy. You have taken a geat deal of risk, and haven't seen any return on this guy, nor are you likely to see any in the near future.
You have fulfilled your responsibility as an employer, above and beyond.
He has not. You didn't even rate a phone call in his eyes.
He needs to go away.

[welk2party]

You are only as good as your weakest employee. It only takes one event from a customer perspective that can drag your whole company down.

[HM]

You are only as good as your weakest employee. It only takes one event from a customer perspective that can drag your whole company down.
You are never going to let me forget Victor, are you? :D

[Mandelon]

After discussion with several other respected business owners and some of our long time staff we have elected not to re-employ this individual.
I don't think this leopard is going to change his spots. His own brother won't hire him due to the lack of reliability issue.
I know not to expect more than someone can deliver. In this business one needs to work with an employees strengths, and work around their weaknesses. You wouldn't send a drywaller in to do plumbing.....
I appreciate the advice, really. It helps to get other perspectives. I will have a talk with him, and let him know that I need someone I can depend on everyday, not just the days he can make it.

[HM]

After discussion with several other respected business owners and some of our long time staff we have elected not to re-employ this individual.
I don't think this leopard is going to change his spots. His own brother won't hire him due to the lack of reliability issue.
I know not to expect more than someone can deliver. In this business one needs to work with an employees strengths, and work around their weaknesses. You wouldn't send a drywaller in to do plumbing.....
I appreciate the advice, really. It helps to get other perspectives. I will have a talk with him, and let him know that I need someone I can depend on everyday, not just the days he can make it.
So that's it....I'm fired? Can I have my last check? :D

[phebus]

Mandy, I'm glad to see you post again. I figured the guy signed on, saw your post, and kicked your f*ckin monkey ass while still drinking with one hand. :)

[Mandelon]

So that's it....I'm fired? Can I have my last check? :D
If you'd fokking turn in your payroll numbers I could......:mad:

[Mandelon]

Mandy, I'm glad to see you post again. I figured the guy signed on, saw your post, and kicked your f*ckin monkey ass while still drinking with one hand. :)
Hey, is your daughter still pissed at me... :confused: :D

[phebus]

Hey, is your daughter still pissed at me... :confused: :D
Shipped her off to Cali today. :)

[JetBoatRich]

I am facing a decision about one of my employees He's worked for me before. I let him go a few years ago but rehired him 4 or 5 months ago since we've been sooo busy. Last time he was let go for innaccuracies in his time card and general lameness... I was hoping he had matured a bit, and he has, He was thanking me around the holidays for being cool about his shortcomings and told me how hard he was trying to get his sh*t together.
On a lot of our projects the guys are paid basically piecework. They get 40% of the net on whatever job they run. The faster guys are making over 50 grand a year. That's for a painter/handyman type position. This guy will be lucky to make half of that. He's a nice guy, but just isn't a "finisher". And even when he did finish a project he'd leave all his tools there, so he'd have to go all the way back the next day....He's run out of gas 3 times in the last 6 months. Always forgets supplies and has to go back to the store. He'd be a money loser paid by the hour. On percentage, its OK. He's slow but his work is good quality.
Last week he disappeared completely. Monday, tuesday wednesday...not a call, no warning, tools left behind and job uncompleted. We check the sheriff's website to see if he'd been in lockup. Thursday rolls around and finally his cousin who is his helper, (who also hasn't been to work all week either) walks in. Apparently our guy has admitted himself to an alcohol treatment center for a week of detox.
Anyhow he calls me today and wonders if he has a job. I wonder too. I like the guy. He's just turned 30 and is still as dependable as an 8 year old kid.
Now I've always tried to do right by others, help out when I can. Sometimes it costs me, but I'm still a sucker like that I guess. So he's trying to get it together, do I give him one more shot at it, or tell him to pound sand???
We are busy as heck and I need the help. He's not a huge asset, but I know what his limits are, and we can work around his shortcomings. But as an employer you need to keep the respect of your other people or they will all get lazy.
I could always break out the aluminum pipe and have a go at the shop radio.......
One thought I had was to tell him to stay home for the rest of the week and ponder his situation. Then on Monday to have him come in and plead his case to all the other guys. Like on Survivor, he'd plead his case before the tribal council and they'd vote....I'd have them write out their choice on a sheet of paper and put it in a container......then count them out.
One chance............or..................adios amigo......
The guys I have now all know I am easy to work for. If they need time off for family stuff or whatever, its no big deal...we work it out. I've had mostly the same guys with me for years. Some over 12 years now. We don't pay medical, no retirement, just flexible with their needs and a way to earn a decent buck with their hands.
Thoughts? Can i even take a vote or is it a violation of some kind???
Your decision seems easy for us:rolleyes: he is a problem in your business, huge liability as well:sqeyes: This is where I would be concerned

[killerbeez]

Nothing personal,just business.Let him go.I am getting ready to cut a ton of people and it kind of bums me out because they all have families.I am going from job to job giving the crews a last opportunity to stand out from the others because if they dont,they will be let go.

[v-drive]

Let him go for job abandonment or I'm certain you will be hit with some kind of suit...v-drive

[a catered life]

contact raff:D