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View Full Version : This Is Getting Ridiculas Charlie!!! Are You Listening?



jammin
03-25-2007, 08:28 PM
Safa 1's accident today and the police don't respond is just another example of the inconsistency of Lake Havasu City and LHCPD. The police and the city condone writing tickets for loud pipes but won't respond to a boat accident! You are writing tickets on the water but won't respond to this! I know, I know it's not your jurisdiction, right. Give me a break, we're citizens here and deserve the cooperation of this Police department and not be considered targets for outrageous ticketing.
Secondly: If the city wants to do something to truly benefit the boaters, that they have no problem reaping the benefits from, enact laws making it necessary for boat rental company's to give on craft boating lessons to these idiots they rent boats to. As SAFA 1 said 3 girls none of which knew how to operate a boat. WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TARGETS FOR THESE INEXPERIENCED OPERATORS. The rental company's won't police themselves so the City should!

jammin
03-25-2007, 08:44 PM
Oh and PS, the Park Rangers are even more inconsistant that LHCPD. Does anyone know what they are supposed to be doing to earn their paychecks besides taking our money and just sitting around if you can find one.

Hotcobra270
03-25-2007, 10:15 PM
preach on brother!!

Moneypitt
03-25-2007, 10:42 PM
You forgot to mention the girl driving was OUI!!!!! They would've been there in a heart beat if they thought there was money to be made.......Otherwise it just a pain in the ass report writing call. No arrests, no glory, no city revenue......MP
PS: Isn't there a new sheriff in town in Havasu???

Kilrtoy
03-25-2007, 10:54 PM
CITY GUY only responds to people who stroke his ego, he will not repond to people who put the city on the spot and call them on the B.S they put people throught.
You Think Earl got any retraining from his little episode a few weeks back when he tased one of his own officers who came to back him up...
NICE:D
I would hope he would print this stuff up and hand it to the CHIEF, wonder what he would think, Actually im sure not much at all

Not So Fast
03-26-2007, 12:05 AM
Exactly why I refuse to boat on Saturdays, especially Spring Break, they are here to get drunk period and this is the results and you will probably never see a dime for the repair. It happens all the time and is GOOD REASON for a mandantory boating operators license or certificate that has to be renewed yearly which I would gladly do to cut down on the numbers of boats that the rental people put out there with not one person having any boating experience on the rental:mad: :mad: I spend a lot of time watching at the ramp and believe me when I say I see this ALL THE TIME, inexperienced rentals going out and much worse coming back. This is the time to get this situation changed, as much as I hate to ask, any lawyers that can get this started out there. It is very dangerous at the ramps, extremely so on Saturday after noon. NSF

boatsnblondes
03-26-2007, 12:17 AM
I got away from all of it....there are some great lakes within the same distance from you guys north, quiet, breathtaking, nice people, why take the chance anymore??

Wheeler
03-26-2007, 04:16 AM
Exactly why I refuse to boat on Saturdays, especially Spring Break, they are here to get drunk period and this is the results and you will probably never see a dime for the repair. It happens all the time and is "GOOD REASON for a mandantory boating operators license" or certificate that has to be renewed yearly which I would gladly do to cut down on the numbers of boats that the rental people put out there with not one person having any boating experience on the rental:mad: :mad: I spend a lot of time watching at the ramp and believe me when I say I see this ALL THE TIME, inexperienced rentals going out and much worse coming back. This is the time to get this situation changed, as much as I hate to ask, any lawyers that can get this started out there. It is very dangerous at the ramps, extremely so on Saturday after noon. NSF
Oh boy! another law! What's Next? the Internet Access License.

Not So Fast
03-26-2007, 06:53 AM
Oh boy! another law! What's Next? the Internet Access License.
Yeah another law, there comes a time for a need and its here, guess you live in a desolate area and thats cool, but the area hot spots on the Colorado River system is way out of control, try boating in Laughlin what with all the PWC rentals, Lake Mohave yeah try that, then come on down to rental city Lake Havasu on ANY WEEKEND and bring your high dollar boat (I doubt you even boat but whatever) and try to lauch at Windsor, maybe you will change your mind. Im not saying this except in the eye of safety my friend, I also dont want more regulation but the requirement to have boating certifcates in the renters possession at the time of renting IS THE ONLY WAY TO PROTECT OTHERS BOATERS from stupidity that renters present. How would you like it if a child of yours or your wife was to be run over by one of the inexperienced operators who by the way DID NOT KNOW HOW TO RUN A BOAT!!! Different senario now , huh Slick!!! Get your head out of the sand buddy and take a look around you and tell me that now is not the time:mad: NSF

Havasu_Dreamin
03-26-2007, 06:58 AM
The best way to try and effect any change is to contact the City directly and tkae it through the proper channels. Will it work, who knows? But complaining about it on the internet and expecting any action is equivalent to talking to a wall...Of course talking to the City might get you the same response...

40FlatDeck
03-26-2007, 07:10 AM
Is everybody ok? How much damage? I would have strangled three girls that day.:mad: :mad: And I'm not joking.

RaceFace
03-26-2007, 07:12 AM
I don't know how true it is, but I was told several years ago that its not just LHCPD that patrols the lake. There are several agencies involved. Sheriff Depts (for both CA and AZ), Indian Police (Havasu Landing), Coast Guard, and LHCPD. I wonder if its just a "its their job" theory going on. Who knows....but it definately sucks. I don't boat on weekends anymore either...not worth risking my families lives. We are only in a 21'er.....we would lose in a collision.

Jyruiz
03-26-2007, 07:15 AM
Exactly why I refuse to boat on Saturdays, especially Spring Break, they are here to get drunk period and this is the results and you will probably never see a dime for the repair. It happens all the time and is GOOD REASON for a mandantory boating operators license or certificate that has to be renewed yearly which I would gladly do to cut down on the numbers of boats that the rental people put out there with not one person having any boating experience on the rental:mad: :mad: I spend a lot of time watching at the ramp and believe me when I say I see this ALL THE TIME, inexperienced rentals going out and much worse coming back. This is the time to get this situation changed, as much as I hate to ask, any lawyers that can get this started out there. It is very dangerous at the ramps, extremely so on Saturday after noon. NSF
Glad I didn't screw up while you were there.:D

Havasu_Dreamin
03-26-2007, 07:29 AM
I don't know how true it is, but I was told several years ago that its not just LHCPD that patrols the lake. There are several agencies involved. Sheriff Depts (for both CA and AZ), Indian Police (Havasu Landing), Coast Guard, and LHCPD. I wonder if its just a "its their job" theory going on. Who knows....but it definately sucks. I don't boat on weekends anymore either...not worth risking my families lives. We are only in a 21'er.....we would lose in a collision.
The agencies:
Arizona:
LHCPD - primarily stay in the channel and Thompson Bay though
Mohave County Sheriff
Arizona Game and Fish
La Paz county Sheriff - primarily stay on the South end of the lake
California:
San Bernardino County Sheriff
California Fish and Game
Federal:
Bureau of Land Management
US Fish and Wildlife
I think I'm missing one somewhere.....

havaduner
03-26-2007, 07:51 AM
The agencies:
Arizona:
LHCPD - primarily stay in the channel and Thompson Bay though
Mohave County Sheriff
Arizona Game and Fish
La Paz county Sheriff - primarily stay on the South end of the lake
California:
San Bernardino County Sheriff
California Fish and Game
Federal:
Bureau of Land Management
US Fish and Wildlife
I think I'm missing one somewhere.....
Coast Guard has jurisdication on the water as well.

Wheeler
03-26-2007, 08:03 AM
Yeah another law, there comes a time for a need and its here, guess you live in a desolate area and thats cool, but the area hot spots on the Colorado River system is way out of control, try boating in Laughlin what with all the PWC rentals, Lake Mohave yeah try that, then come on down to rental city Lake Havasu on ANY WEEKEND and bring your high dollar boat (I doubt you even boat but whatever) and try to lauch at Windsor, maybe you will change your mind. Im not saying this except in the eye of safety my friend, I also dont want more regulation but the requirement to have boating certifcates in the renters possession at the time of renting IS THE ONLY WAY TO PROTECT OTHERS BOATERS from stupidity that renters present. How would you like it if a child of yours or your wife was to be run over by one of the inexperienced operators who by the way DID NOT KNOW HOW TO RUN A BOAT!!! Different senario now , huh Slick!!! Get your head out of the sand buddy and take a look around you and tell me that now is not the time:mad: NSF
As I am typing this, I am looking out my window at the river (parker strip) I was born in LA and raised in the OC. People?
I have been using the river since 62.
Enforce the laws, that are now in effect.
Ps. put your head, back in.

CityGuy
03-26-2007, 08:16 AM
In all, there are 19 separate agencies with jurisdictional authority on Lake Havasu. Generally, the ONLY areas on the lake under the jurisdiction of Lake Havasu City is the Bridgewater Channel and Site Six. The City also has jurisdiction on the shore above the 450' elevation EXCEPT at Windsor State Beach. Windsor is a State Park and under the jurisdiction of their own police force. They have an intergovernmental agreement with the Mohave County Sheriff's Office to back them up if they need it. The City is not a party to the agreement, but our police and fire units will respond if asked by the park police or if there is an emergency. Scraped gelcoat at the ramp probably would not classify as an emergency for our first responders.
"CITY GUY only responds to people who stroke his ego, he will not repond to people who put the city on the spot and call them on the B.S they put people throught."
For what it's worth, I will repeat a statement that I have made on numerous occasions here in the past: My workload does not allow me to monitor this forum on any kind of regular basis. If I do not respond, it is simply because I didn't see the question. I have always offered my personal contact information as a courtesy and I appreciate the few ***boaters who have contacted me. If my comments are percieved by some as "pro-havasu," or "pro-city," then so be it. Our system of government may not be perfect, but I love this community and I am often offended by the negativity and accusations based on ignorance. (end of rant)
If you would like a response from me, I hope you will use the PM feature on this forum or you may contact me direct at the following:
Charlie Cassens
cassensc@lhcaz.gov
928-854-4212 office

ChumpChange
03-26-2007, 08:26 AM
.....I am often offended by the negativity and accusations based on ignorance.
I'm gonna have to use this in my signature. :D

OutCole'd
03-26-2007, 08:29 AM
In all, there are 19 separate agencies with jurisdictional authority on Lake Havasu. Generally, the ONLY areas on the lake under the jurisdiction of Lake Havasu City is the Bridgewater Channel and Site Six. The City also has jurisdiction on the shore above the 450' elevation EXCEPT at Windsor State Beach. Windsor is a State Park and under the jurisdiction of their own police force. They have an intergovernmental agreement with the Mohave County Sheriff's Office to back them up if they need it. The City is not a party to the agreement, but our police and fire units will respond if asked by the park police or if there is an emergency. Scraped gelcoat at the ramp probably would not classify as an emergency for our first responders.
"CITY GUY only responds to people who stroke his ego, he will not repond to people who put the city on the spot and call them on the B.S they put people throught."
For what it's worth, I will repeat a statement that I have made on numerous occasions here in the past: My workload does not allow me to monitor this forum on any kind of regular basis. If I do not respond, it is simply because I didn't see the question. I have always offered my personal contact information as a courtesy and I appreciate the few ***boaters who have contacted me. If my comments are percieved by some as "pro-havasu," or "pro-city," then so be it. Our system of government may not be perfect, but I love this community and I am often offended by the negativity and accusations based on ignorance. (end of rant)
If you would like a response from me, I hope you will use the PM feature on this forum or you may contact me direct at the following:
Charlie Cassens
cassensc@lhcaz.gov
928-854-4212 office
Class act Charley, thanks for the reply.

shueman
03-26-2007, 08:36 AM
Class act Charley, thanks for the reply.
Ditto.... :cool:

voodoomedman
03-26-2007, 08:39 AM
Kilr I have to wonder why you always have problems with LHC LEO. Is it because somebody's reading these boards and they know what you say about them? While I do not agree with everything the city is doing, like the stupid seawall crap, I have to say that I have never been harassed, pulled over or anything. Of course I am not drunk, nobody on my boat is naked, I'm not driving erratic and it's me my wife and child (now another on the way) and often other extended family members. Just out there being a family having fun and we never have any problems. Not saying you are doing anything wrong but I'm just wondering.
In my opinion the problem out there is the politics and things brewing over the years. MTV or whatever started the party crowd back in the day. So now they close off areas on weekends or holidays to make them safer or whatever. Well guess what everybody just goes to a different spot and now that agency runs them out. CityGuy said there are 18 different agencies. Geez. How about some sort of panel or something where they get together to work on the problems on the lake. To me it's a simple as emergency access lanes in all the party coves, sandbar, channel etc and an increased law presence at busy times and zero tolerance for underage drinking, drunk driving, fighting, etc. If a girl is dancing let her dance. I love boobies but if that gets out of hand then into pattywagon you go. Should be a warning for boobs until you don't stop. Anything else or public acts of sex then get the hell out of town. Why has Southern California and SoCal influenced areas turned into a freaking mega orgy, constant party atmosphere. There is a time and a place. Not on a lake next to boats full of kids.

bigq
03-26-2007, 08:47 AM
Class act Charley, thanks for the reply.
Ditto..Ditto...
My guess is if there was injuries involved they would have had responders.

Havasu_Dreamin
03-26-2007, 08:49 AM
Class act Charley, thanks for the reply.
Agreed.....

Not So Fast
03-26-2007, 09:12 AM
As I am typing this, I am looking out my window at the river (parker strip) I was born in LA and raised in the OC. People?
I have been using the river since 62.
Enforce the laws, that are now in effect.
Ps. put your head, back in.
Big deal, so was I and so on and so on, yes enforce the laws in place EXCEPT THERE IS NO LAW TO GOVERN RENTAL COMPANIES to require at the very least a cert of some type that the operator has ever even been on a boat. Now dont you think thats just a little dangerous, get real, its time something be done about it and you know it. My head is right where it belongs OK, on my shoulders so dont get all bad ass on me. Am I concerned about all this, obviously. Maybe it doesnt affect you but up here its a big problem. Thanks for your imput. NSF

RaceFace
03-26-2007, 09:15 AM
Class act Charley, thanks for the reply.
Yeah Charlie, thanks for the info! ;)

Jyruiz
03-26-2007, 09:16 AM
I think rental companies should at least have to show a 20 minute video on how to operate a boat before renting it out. I know it is not a total solution, but it is a start.

Moneypitt
03-26-2007, 09:21 AM
Someone here said they were in the business, so I'll ask. Do rental operators pay more to register a boat for the year? Or is it just the standard deal like every other boat? Also, as a part of doing business are you required to have a huge liability policy?......MP

Cole Trickle
03-26-2007, 09:31 AM
I find it strange that a rental company will launch a 5K pound vessel with no proof of insurance.(Honestly I don't know who would cover a untrained driver in a rental boat)
If there name is on the title/reg for the boat they are responsible for the damage that "there" boat caused.
This is why Hertz/Enterprise will not release a car without either there coverage or talking to your agent to make sure your coverage transfers over.

bigq
03-26-2007, 09:37 AM
Big deal, so was I and so on and so on, yes enforce the laws in place EXCEPT THERE IS NO LAW TO GOVERN RENTAL COMPANIES to require at the very least a cert of some type that the operator has ever even been on a boat. Now dont you think thats just a little dangerous, get real, its time something be done about it and you know it. My head is right where it belongs OK, on my shoulders so dont get all bad ass on me. Am I concerned about all this, obviously. Maybe it doesnt affect you but up here its a big problem. Thanks for your imput. NSF
I agree that at least a video should be played or something, but how many new boat companies build out a 90-100 MPH boat to the first time boater? Any laws for that? Everyone picks on the rental companies, but leave out the first time owner? How many MAgic 28' deck boats were purchased for first time buyers?
PS.. not getting all badass on you :) you raise legitimate concerns for sure.

jammin
03-26-2007, 09:41 AM
Charlie, I did as you said and PM'ed you. Now tell us something positive you and the city are going to do about this if YOU want to be taken seriously in the future.

bigq
03-26-2007, 09:46 AM
Charlie, I did as you said and PM'ed you. Now tell us something positive you and the city are going to do about this if YOU want to be taken seriously in the future.
My guess is he is not going to hash it out on some Internet message board, but I have been wrong before. :)

Not So Fast
03-26-2007, 09:58 AM
I agree that at least a video should be played or something, but how many new boat companies build out a 90-100 MPH boat to the first time boater? Any laws for that? Everyone picks on the rental companies, but leave out the first time owner? How many MAgic 28' deck boats were purchased for first time buyers?
PS.. not getting all badass on you :) you raise legitimate concerns for sure.
Bigg, yep, you right on about how many companies (boat) will sell you an 80mph boat and send you on your way. I think thats why some sort of certificate (required to attend a boating class with on hands demo) should be required for all boaters and renewed yearly also, especially the guy who rents a boat. Maybe it was OK back in the day to learn on the fly but in the real world of today there are simply TOO MANY BOATS IN TOO SMALL AN AREA. I'm hoping anyone commenting on this subject has at least been to one of the busy ramps along the Colorado to see first hand how overcrowded things have become. If some one is boating say in Big River where crowds are an exception then you have no idea of the congestion at say Windsor ramp here at Havasu on any given Saturday. I dont like big brother looking at us either but it's time because safety is at stake. Sorry for the rant but i think this thread proves the point, a very expensive boat was rammed while getting on his trailer by an operator of a RENTAL pontoon that had absolutely no experience or business operating that craft, thats a fact!!
Ill check back this afternoon on this because I'm going boating :D NSF

HocusPocus
03-26-2007, 10:02 AM
the problem is much bigger then just rentals. one of the biggest boating accidents last year involved two custom boats that hit each other. then recently around site six another big dollar boat did a high speed roll over. just because someone can afford a $100,000+ boat doesn't mean they will know how to handle it safely. also no one is required to have boating insurance which i see as a problem. what to do??? thats the million dollar question but no one will like the answers any agency comes up with.

CityGuy
03-26-2007, 10:25 AM
Jammin -
Here is your e-mail message to me and the reply I returned:
Charlie,
I realize your job is dispursing information and putting a positive slant on it but the Citys lack of interest yesterday at Winsor ramp is unacceptable! It appears the city is only interested in tickets for revenue. Again I know, I know it's not my job, balogne we pay taxs to have law enforcement thru out this city regardless of what ever B S agreement you my have made with other L E in the area and I don't remember this agreement on any balot anywhere so the citizens could approve this! The simple fact of the matter is LHCPD and LHC simply don't care, this is simply one less call to handle and that attitude is not what we pay for.
NOW TELL ME SOMETHING POSITIVE THAT YOU AND THIS CITY IS GOING TO DO!
full time resident and boater
Jammin
------------
Hello (Jammin) –
The city had nothing to do with the LE agreement that state parks has with the sheriff’s office. It was in place before the city was incorporated in 1978 and the state has made it clear that they have no interest in making any changes. The city will respond if asked by the rangers, but our offers to assist them have been turned down on many occasions in the past and the city has absolutely no power to force the issue. Yes, a portion of the taxes everyone pays in the city goes towards law enforcement in the city. At Windsor, however, you pay a fee to use the facilities and law enforcement comes with that package.
I hope this helps your understanding in this matter.
Also a full time resident and boater…
Charlie Cassens
Communications & Intergovernmental Affairs
Office of the City Manager
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
928-854-4212

Magic34
03-26-2007, 10:31 AM
Jammin -
Here is your e-mail message to me and the reply I returned:
Charlie,
I realize your job is dispursing information and putting a positive slant on it but the Citys lack of interest yesterday at Winsor ramp is unacceptable! It appears the city is only interested in tickets for revenue. Again I know, I know it's not my job, balogne we pay taxs to have law enforcement thru out this city regardless of what ever B S agreement you my have made with other L E in the area and I don't remember this agreement on any balot anywhere so the citizens could approve this! The simple fact of the matter is LHCPD and LHC simply don't care, this is simply one less call to handle and that attitude is not what we pay for.
NOW TELL ME SOMETHING POSITIVE THAT YOU AND THIS CITY IS GOING TO DO!
full time resident and boater
Jammin
------------
Hello (Jammin) –
The city had nothing to do with the LE agreement that state parks has with the sheriff’s office. It was in place before the city was incorporated in 1978 and the state has made it clear that they have no interest in making any changes. The city will respond if asked by the rangers, but our offers to assist them have been turned down on many occasions in the past and the city has absolutely no power to force the issue. Yes, a portion of the taxes everyone pays in the city goes towards law enforcement in the city. At Windsor, however, you pay a fee to use the facilities and law enforcement comes with that package.
I hope this helps your understanding in this matter.
Also a full time resident and boater…
Charlie Cassens
Communications & Intergovernmental Affairs
Office of the City Manager
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
928-854-4212
I think it is pretty cool that Charlie comes on here to answer some things that have been said. It would be much easier for him to ignore it in terms of the ***boat forums.
I respect the guy for walking into a fire.

whiteworks
03-26-2007, 10:44 AM
I can not wrap my brain around the idea of rental boat companys not requiring an insurance policy for renters. who the fock is liable? who pays? WTF! Tijauna Arizona, guess it just a big free for all on the water. now wonder my boat insurance is spendy. I think I would have called san bernardino county sheriffs and got a report of the incident in this country.

Tyson Ross
03-26-2007, 11:08 AM
I called the first boat rental company in the Parker/LHC yellow pages. They advsd that the renter is accountable for any insurance on the rental boat. Renter is taking the risk, expecially if they have no insurance. Seems to me the owner (rental company) is definetly exposing themselves to a lawsuit should something happen.
At the very least, the operator/renter is being held accountable for their actions, otherwise, what is the incentive to take care of the boat your renting?

Magic34
03-26-2007, 11:17 AM
I called the first boat rental company in the Parker/LHC yellow pages. They advsd that the renter is accountable for any insurance on the rental boat. Renter is taking the risk, expecially if they have no insurance. Seems to me the owner (rental company) is definetly exposing themselves to a lawsuit should something happen.
At the very least, the operator/renter is being held accountable for their actions, otherwise, what is the incentive to take care of the boat your renting?
Yes, but there is a ton of exposure to the boat owner as well.
I know someone who owned a boat on Pleasant. It was a 34-36 Sea Ray crusier. The owner of the boat let their cousin use it. 1 of the people on the boat was on the bow at night, fell off and the boat ran her over.
The boat sat in impound for over 2 years at the sherrif's office at the lake. The actual owners had to deal with a ton of the red tape, and liability fell on them as well.
Now, I know someone didn't die here and we are talking about $$ in damages, if you let someone use your boat and they dont know what they are doing and a small or large accident happens be ready to deal with the consequences.
Why do companies have insurance at all if nothing is ever their fault? They do, because it is, and they will pay.

Havasu1986
03-26-2007, 11:19 AM
I called Fun Time Rentals and concerning insurance and he told me about how a girl yesterday hit a 3 million dollar boat yesterday and it is in the shop for a 2k repair. He said he had insurance but she had to pay.:)

Boatcop
03-26-2007, 11:31 AM
Just a note regarding Boating Accident Reporting.
Federal Law requires that the OWNER of any boat involved in an accident or collision resulting in $2,000 damage or more, report it to the Coast Guard within 5 days of occurance. (Injury or death within 48 hours)
OR
State law requires that the OWNER of any boat involved in an accident or collision resulting in $500 damage or more, report it to the Arizona Game and Fish Department within 5 days of occurance. (Injury or death within 48 hours)
IF law enforcement responds to take a report, that satisfies the owner's responsibility. However, there is no law or provision that requires Law Enforcement to take a boating accident report. (Some agencies may have policy that they take accident reports, but no State or Federal Law require it)

Tyson Ross
03-26-2007, 11:40 AM
I am all for the owner having responsibility, since they allowed the driver use their vehicle/boat. I just wish the operator would be held more accountable for their actions, rather then the deeper pockets. If the rental boat has no insurance, fine, take the operator to small claims. It's time consuming but why let them off the hook. They caused the damage. Let them have a civil judgement against them until they pay it off.

Magic34
03-26-2007, 11:47 AM
Just a note regarding Boating Accident Reporting.
Federal Law requires that the OWNER of any boat involved in an accident or collision resulting in $2,000 damage or more, report it to the Coast Guard within 5 days of occurance. (Injury or death within 48 hours)
OR
State law requires that the OWNER of any boat involved in an accident or collision resulting in $500 damage or more, report it to the Arizona Game and Fish Department within 5 days of occurance. (Injury or death within 48 hours)
IF law enforcement responds to take a report, that satisfies the owner's responsibility. However, there is no law or provision that requires Law Enforcement to take a boating accident report. (Some agencies may have policy that they take accident reports, but no State or Federal Law require it)
Exactly, it is the OWNER'S responsibility.
Just because they make you sign that the operator is liable, that has nothing to do with the law. They are simply trying to remove liabilty from themselves. Now, by signing that, the operator agreed to the terms, however it isn't the "victim's" fault they have to battle this out.
The OWNER needs to pay up then go after his renter for damages.

Boatcop
03-26-2007, 12:01 PM
Exactly, it is the OWNER'S responsibility.
Just because they make you sign that the operator is liable, that has nothing to do with the law. They are simply trying to remove liabilty from themselves. Now, by signing that, the operator agreed to the terms, however it isn't the "victim's" fault they have to battle this out.
The OWNER needs to pay up then go after his renter for damages.
I should have been a little more precise. The Owner or Operator is required to make the report. Nothing states who has the liability, although in maritime law, it is the boat's owner that usually has liability.
One of the Havasu rental agencies went to Federal Court last year and got themselves indemnified from liability following a fatal accident, where a female dancing on the front of a pontoon boat fell off and was run over by the boat. This was before any claims were filed. Federal Maritime law permits this if the Owner can show that they, and/or the rented boat had no factor in the cause of the death.

Tyson Ross
03-26-2007, 12:09 PM
"Exactly, it is the OWNER'S responsibility."
My point is that if neither the owner or borrower/renter have insurance, the one causing the damage should be responsible for paying for the damage 1st, they are the one that was negligent. Yes, the owner should probably make sure the operator doesn't have their head up their ass, but the owner was not the idiot driving the vessel. I agree that the owner also has the responsibility of knowing who is operating their vessel, that's why they are liable as well.
Would I name both on a lawsuit? You bet, but I would hope that the operator has a job as I would expect them to make me whole before I would expect the owner, who may have been out of state at the time of the collision.

Magic34
03-26-2007, 12:17 PM
"Exactly, it is the OWNER'S responsibility."
My point is that if neither the owner or borrower/renter have insurance, the one causing the damage should be responsible for paying for the damage 1st, they are the one that was negligent. Yes, the owner should probably make sure the operator doesn't have their head up their ass, but the owner was not the idiot driving the vessel. I agree that the owner also has the responsibility of knowing who is operating their vessel, that's why they are liable as well.
Would I name both on a lawsuit? You bet, but I would hope that the operator has a job as I would expect them to make me whole before I would expect the owner, who may have been out of state at the time of the collision.
I agree with you, however, this was a business that let someone use the boat. They are in it to make money and the liability comes with that business.
If this was between 2 friends, then I would understand that it is a toss up on who is responsible, however a business should know better than to not be selling insurance there on the spot to these people.

moneypit
03-26-2007, 01:22 PM
To rent a Car you Need to have LICENSE . You dont need insurance.. My wife got creamed a few weeks ago in her car (with my son) and the Mex, sorry.. guy didnt speak english... or have a license ... or any fawking insurance... Theres nothing to protect those who actually follow the rules...
I will say that If you need a License to rent a car, you SHOULD have to get a LICENSE to operate a boat... Which is much more difficult since there are no traffic signals... headlights... stop signs... etc.
Boating on lakes is way too populated now, NOT to have Licenses and its way to unsafe to allow an expercienced person driving a boat.