I tried posting in the right place

[roostwear]

But couldn't get an answer, so since v-drives are more familiar with them, I'll try it here. I have been restoring a 1969 Stevens flatbottom jet. I removed the (fixed) cav plates for polishing and didn't mark where the turnbuckles(?) went. :hammer2: Now I'm reassembling it and finding they are different lengths. The difference in length would indicate the plates were set differently, but how? It doesn't have the torque a v-drive has to compensate for, so is the port plate lower to compensate for the driver's weight, or what? It's probably a hypothetical deal unless someone has run one of these back then.
Ideas?
http://www.freeboardchallenged.com/stevens/buff1.jpg

[Emanon Performance Marine]

Mike,
Treat it just like a ride plate being it is a fixed cav plate. Set them, being you have no idea how it will handle, 2* down, to be on the safe side, and adjust from there.
Next question are all the turnbuckles the same length ? Did you take them apart to clean them ? It is not hard just use the turnbuckle that fits in the spot. Match game time.
Good luck !!
BTW - It looks good !!! I wish I was there to help tune the boat in.

[lilrick]

Is the jet going to be able to thrust any water? Seems kinda high in the boat.

[dmontzsta]

Is the jet going to be able to thrust any water? Seems kinda high in the boat.
I am with you.
I am also curious to see how the boat rides. Flatbottoms like to ride out of the water and it seems like it would be real easy for the pump to unload? :confused:

[roostwear]

I didn't disassemble the turnbuckles themselves, so they are their original lengths. The natural postion for the plates (without the turnbuckles on) is a degree or two up, so I just need to know which plate is up (or down) compared to the other, if the outside is lower than the inside of the plate, etc.
As far as thrust, it should be a kick in the ass.... probably look like a giant fire hose blowing out the back of the transom. I'm sure unloading will be a concern (especially in choppy/blown out water), but it's the Tuesday-Thursday boat, so as long as I set the plates to just keep the intake loaded, I'll be set for the "good" days.
I won't be setting any speed records with it, that's for sure.

[Havasu Carrera]

How bout a pic of the emblems on that beuty? :D I gotta say set them straight or a little up. And JETOVATOR!! Or PLACE divertor. And DROOP SNOOT for sure. I think a droop will give you a HUGE difference eaven more so than about every other boat. The divertor will let you PUSH the bottom of the boat into the water to get less cavitation at speed. Must Have equipment for you bud.:)

[roostwear]

Is the jet going to be able to thrust any water? Seems kinda high in the boat.
The setup on this is counter-intuitive to a "normal" jet. Jet thrust is above the waterline on plane, and you drop the thrust line to help lift (dry out) the hull. On this, I can't trim it, and the high thrust line will push the transom down, so I'm thinking it won't unload as easily as it would with a lower thrust line. that's what I'm THINKING anyways...... I'll find out next month.:eek:

[roostwear]

How bout a pic of the emblems on that beuty? :D I gotta say set them straight or a little up. And JETOVATOR!! Or PLACE divertor. And DROOP SNOOT for sure. I think a droop will give you a HUGE difference eaven more so than about every other boat. The divertor will let you PUSH the bottom of the boat into the water to get less cavitation at speed. Must Have equipment for you bud.:)
The emblems look tits, thanks!:wink:

[Emanon Performance Marine]

Mike,
Set them even for starters @ 2* down. Don't worry about the way it was set up before because 6 out of 10 are wrong anyway. You will probably end up at 2* up. But new boat new driving experience, safety first.
He is trying to keep this boat stock as much as possible, as sold way back when. But a droop and a diverter would be my choice.

[roostwear]

Problem is.... I don't know if I CAN adjust them. They probably haven't been turned in 38 years and they don't look like they WANT to!
I'm not that concerned with speed... if it goes 50, that'd just be LUDICROUS speed! Turning will be an experience though. Good thing it has a turning fin or it'd be like a boat slick track.

[Emanon Performance Marine]

You could always soak them overnight in paint thinner and give it a try in the AM. A good deep loader is in order too.
Any pics of that fin ?

[roostwear]

Tom was going to help with the setup and build a loader, but unfortunately, that won't happen. He said he had experience with them way back when, but I don't know if anyone else around has first hand experience with them. I'll consider a loader in the future, but for now, just moving under it's own power would be nice.

[HM]

Is the boat truly flat all the way across? Or is there a degree or two? Could be the short ones go on the outside and longer ones in the inside and the inbetween...you get the point. The bottom may have a hook or bump on one side that the previous owner compensated for with the cav plates.
Regardless, create a new starting point. Screw starting with 2* down....how are you going to measure that on plates that are bending? Plus, that setup isn't going to be all that fast. Use a level and match them with the bottom and to each other - as level as possible. Then go drive it and adjust as needed. Small adjustments are huge in performance with cav plates vs. a 'ride plate' - night and day difference. Even people who had trim plates don't realize how sensitive these are due to the surface area. 1/2 turn increments, unless you are waayyyy off in the beginning - then do 1/2 turn increments....more ofter. :D
I have seen a couple boats with the pump setup that way. Their value was nostalgia and not performance. One guy had seats behind the engine! It does make storage a lot easier!!!!

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Just a theory since I know nothing about this....
Sometimes turnbuckles can be different lengths but can adjust to an even length. They start out the same from the factory but owners may replace them over time with the wrong sizes, then adjust them to even out.

[roostwear]

Is the boat truly flat all the way across? Or is there a degree or two? Could be the short ones go on the outside and longer ones in the inside and the inbetween...you get the point. The bottom may have a hook or bump on one side that the previous owner compensated for with the cav plates.
Regardless, create a new starting point. Screw starting with 2* down....how are you going to measure that on plates that are bending? Plus, that setup isn't going to be all that fast. Use a level and match them with the bottom and to each other - as level as possible. Then go drive it and adjust as needed. Small adjustments are huge in performance with cav plates vs. a 'ride plate' - night and day difference. Even people who had trim plates don't realize how sensitive these are due to the surface area. 1/2 turn increments, unless you are waayyyy off in the beginning - then do 1/2 turn increments....more ofter. :D
I have seen a couple boats with the pump setup that way. Their value was nostalgia and not performance. One guy had seats behind the engine! It does make storage a lot easier!!!!
From the chine to the keel, there's less than 1" of V. Theres no hook or rocker... fore to aft it's flat! I don't know if you can even use the word "value" with this boat... I must have a screw loose to be doing it. I'm not looking for performance, just making it handle as best it can with the original equipment. I was going to put it back to the original setup to start, but not knowing what that is, I'll have to start from scratch.

[HM]

From the chine to the keel, there's less than 1" of V. Theres no hook or rocker... fore to aft it's flat! I don't know if you can even use the word "value" with this boat... I must have a screw loose to be doing it. I'm not looking for performance, just making it handle as best it can with the original equipment. I was going to put it back to the original setup to start, but not knowing what that is, I'll have to start from scratch.
Make them level. If the turnbuckles are frozen, you might try liquid copper (Cuprinol). That is the same stuff they used to treat wood. Jasco has as good as any. I accidentally found out this the best frozen bolt lubricant ever. Might stain it green though!
As far as having a screw loose, well, that is pretty much any nolstalgic boat owner!!!

[flat broke]

Ditto what frank says about the plate. 2* down would be like dragging an anchor. Before you do anything else see if you can turn the turnbuckles before you get them installed on the boat. It would suck to crack the mounting pads or levers torquing away on them. It's only 6 turnbuckles, they don't have to be beefy, and they're relatively short. It wouldn't be the end of the world if you had to replace them. There are probably guys on the boards that have older ones sitting around after they upgraded to beefier/prettier pieces.
As far as the recomendation on a droop... I'd shy away from that. With the intake moved further foward, the last thing you want to be doing is moving the thrustline down and adding some angle. If the motor/pump has the beans and the hull doesn't weigh too much, you could end up driving the pump out of the water which would set up a rather annoying cavitation/porpoise cycle. Let it run wet with the plates flat, then if it can use more lift, raise the plates slowly. The only pump adjustments I'd maybe make would be with wedges assuming that your transom housing seal wouldnt' be compromised (hard to tell in the pic), and even then, it would really only be if drastic plate changes weren't having a measurable impact on the attitude of the boat.
With regard to the turnbuckles not being equal in length, that 1" of V will account for some of that. Additionally, there might be some other geometry involved (hull deviations, mounting pads not equidistant etc.) that could explain it. And then of course there is the possibility that the person who had it before you just had stuff turned every which way without regard for a desired effect on the bottom of the plate.
Good luck,
Chris

[roostwear]

Ditto what frank says about the plate. 2* down would be like dragging an anchor. Before you do anything else see if you can turn the turnbuckles before you get them installed on the boat. It would suck to crack the mounting pads or levers torquing away on them. It's only 6 turnbuckles, they don't have to be beefy, and they're relatively short. It wouldn't be the end of the world if you had to replace them. There are probably guys on the boards that have older ones sitting around after they upgraded to beefier/prettier pieces.
As far as the recomendation on a droop... I'd shy away from that. With the intake moved further foward, the last thing you want to be doing is moving the thrustline down and adding some angle. If the motor/pump has the beans and the hull doesn't weigh too much, you could end up driving the pump out of the water which would set up a rather annoying cavitation/porpoise cycle. Let it run wet with the plates flat, then if it can use more lift, raise the plates slowly. The only pump adjustments I'd maybe make would be with wedges assuming that your transom housing seal wouldnt' be compromised (hard to tell in the pic), and even then, it would really only be if drastic plate changes weren't having a measurable impact on the attitude of the boat.
With regard to the turnbuckles not being equal in length, that 1" of V will account for some of that. Additionally, there might be some other geometry involved (hull deviations, mounting pads not equidistant etc.) that could explain it. And then of course there is the possibility that the person who had it before you just had stuff turned every which way without regard for a desired effect on the bottom of the plate.
Good luck,
Chris
I think I'll start at 2* up and see how it handles. If it's too much I can always back off and bring the bow down, then readjust. I think a droop is the the last thing I need, and a diverter and wedge(s) isn't in the cards. I think the setup of this is a different animal compared to semi/v bottom. It'll want to get on plane in a heartbeat, it's just a matter keeping the intake wet. That won't happen trying to air it out like I would on the Advantage. I guess I need to post another shot showing just how far forward the intake is compared to a newer jet. Let's put it this way.... The engine is part way into the rear seat! That's why it seats 3 adults in the front, and 2 midgets (little people, dwarfs, whatever) in the back.
As far as hardware is concerned, the turnbuckles have male ends with 5/16" holes and I haven't been able to find any of those. I'll get them unfrozen one way or the other!

[HM]

... and 2 midgets (little people, dwarfs, whatever) in the back.
Sweet, I get to bring a friend!!!! :D

[roostwear]

Sweet, I get to bring a friend!!!! :D
Sure you'll fit?
http://www.freeboardchallenged.com/stevens/eng1.jpg
My 15 YO is knocking on 6 foot tall, and the legroom is lacking!
http://www.freeboardchallenged.com/stevens/eng2.jpg
It's really for the engine and the seats are an afterthought
http://www.freeboardchallenged.com/stevens/eng3.jpg