Fram oil filters

[texas-19]

Someone mentioned how they have used from oil filters for a long time.
I remembered seeing some pics of a used fram vs mobil 1 on a Duramax web site where they cut it open to compare them.Here is the link.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80682&highlight=fram
Here is another link i found from a Fram engineer.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt
Here is an unbiased study of different filters.
Kinda long but check out the fram.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
I just can't get past the paper element, cardboard end caps, and plastic bypass.Throw 50 weight oil at it above 60 #'s and i can't see it holding up.
I've been using the mobil 1 filter but i switched to the amsoil filter on my last oil change in my truck and here is why.
http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/eao/eao_efficiency_500px.jpg
I am not an amsoil dealer,just want the best filter i can find.
The paper element gets restricted the quickest,will bypass the most oil on start up,collapse and is the least efficient at actually filtering the oil.
The filter i installed with the amsoil oil is good for 25000 miles on a diesel.I'm gonna change it at 15000 anyway,never went more than 3000 on an oil change so i'm skeptical.I'll cut it open when i'm done with it to see what it looks like.I'll post pics if any one is interested.
I plan on using the amsoil filter in my boat this year.
According to Amsoil they have almost 100% efficientcy.
If anyone has read or has had any problems with the amsoil filter i'd like to know before i put one on my boat engine.

[ghittner]

Always used Fram on my Powerstrokes, all my race applications and passenger cars etc. Never let me down. Besides, what performance minded enthusiast is gonna go anywhere near that long between oil changes? Not me.....Blown 489, 800 or so HP. 40 wt Valvoline racing. Never seen any oil contamination or oil wear related issues in any of my engines.

[Moneypitt]

Its easy to shift the blame for failures to an oil filter. I have had my share of failures over the years, but can't place the blame on the oil filter in any one of them. I have used fram products since before the spin ons were even a factory installed deal, never even the slightest hint of a problem. I had one guy tell me the Fram filter was junk because it let a bunch of crap get in his oil pump and ruined the oil pump. OK, he was a moron, and his out of the box oil pump chewed it's self up due to preloading by the drive shaft. The filter worked, and most of the crap never made it into the actual engine. But blame the Fram filter.......As I said, 45 plus years and never seen a failure that could be blamed on an oil filter, any brand oil filter..........MP

[Rexone]

There's been lots of discussions on this subject on this forum and on OO. Do some searches. There's been some first hand stories told of Frams collapsing and rendering low or no oil pressure with other filters being put on and eliminating the problem.
I've personally seen a burst test comparison between a Fram HP and a K&N. No comparison, (Fram blew up far before the K&N even deformed). Relavent? Perhaps, perhaps not.
I've seen the filtering media also. Fram didn't impress me, but I'm not an expert either on the subject.
My motors and vehicles all run Baldwins, K&N or Wix. Some guys swear by Fram. I'm just not one of em.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

I use the K&N oil filter solely because of the 1" socket fitting on the filter makes it far far easier to remove.
And,, it's about the same price.

[texas-19]

Always used Fram on my Powerstrokes, all my race applications and passenger cars etc. Never let me down. Besides, what performance minded enthusiast is gonna go anywhere near that long between oil changes? Not me.....Blown 489, 800 or so HP. 40 wt Valvoline racing. Never seen any oil contamination or oil wear related issues in any of my engines.
Totally agree,high performance and truck engines are 2 different things.
I'm trying amsoil oil in my truck because i have seen some diesel engines going unreal miles on original engines,never said anything about extended oil changes in my performance boat.for my boat i was only talking about using an amsoil filter.

[texas-19]

Its easy to shift the blame for failures to an oil filter. I have had my share of failures over the years, but can't place the blame on the oil filter in any one of them. I have used fram products since before the spin ons were even a factory installed deal, never even the slightest hint of a problem. I had one guy tell me the Fram filter was junk because it let a bunch of crap get in his oil pump and ruined the oil pump. OK, he was a moron, and his out of the box oil pump chewed it's self up due to preloading by the drive shaft. The filter worked, and most of the crap never made it into the actual engine. But blame the Fram filter.......As I said, 45 plus years and never seen a failure that could be blamed on an oil filter, any brand oil filter..........MP
I understand where your coming from,i used them for 30+ years myself,until i started seeing pictures of collapsed fram filters and then read the article from the fram engineer.Hope they continue to work for you,i'm not being sarcastic either.

[Ryan00TJ]

After seeing the internals of a Fram you will switch quickly. They have cardboard endcaps and very thin filter material with less pleat count than comparable filters of the same price. I've always used Wix. Comparing the two cutopen filters is like a Model A to a Z06.

[LakesOnly]

Can't tell you how many people have called me with oiling problems that, for the life of themselves, they cannot figure out. The conversation often goes like this:
"I have a (wildly fluctuating oil pressure gauge) or (15 or so pounds of oil pressure)."
"How long has this symptom been present?"
"Just started."
"Did you just change your oil?"
"As a matter of fact, yes."
"Fram filter?"
"Yes."
"Change your filter and call me back."
They call back later; problem solved.
LO
p.s.: I run a dual remote setup with a pair of Amsoil filters....7 micron rating.

[old flat]

Do not let anyone tell you what to use, or not use. don't use what I use; don't use what Dad, or Uncle Bob used. Pony up a couple of dollars, go get a Fram, a Purolator Platinum, NAPA Gold, Wix, K&N, AC Delco, and get your cutter, what? no filter cutter,,, get one of those while you're at it, and cut those filters apart and; based soley on what you see, as far as materials, types and strength of bypass, and construction, decide what YOU want to put on your engine. Same independant study can be applied to Fuel filters for you diesel types. Just my $.02
STEVE

[ghittner]

I use the K&N oil filter solely because of the 1" socket fitting on the filter makes it far far easier to remove.
And,, it's about the same price.
Nice seat belts!

[Moneypitt]

Can't tell you how many people have called me with oiling problems that, for the life of themselves, they cannot figure out. The conversation often goes like this:
"I have a (wildly fluctuating oil pressure gauge) or (15 or so pounds of oil pressure)."
"How long has this symptom been present?"
"Just started."
"Did you just change your oil?"
"As a matter of fact, yes."
"Fram filter?"
"Yes."
"Change your filter and call me back."
They call back later; problem solved.
LO
p.s.: I run a dual remote setup with a pair of Amsoil filters....7 micron rating.
I've seen the exact same thing when the remote plumbing was backward. The Fram had a flapper valve, the ???? what ever didn't. Once the problem was corrected, the same Fram re installed, and there was no problem......What exactly would you say was causing the fluctuation you mentioned? What part of the guts, or filtering element could cause the pressure to fluctuate like that? I just can't see anything inside an oil filter that would cause that, any brand. I could see air in a gauge line, maybe......Did the filter the customer put on slow the oil flow down because of better filtering? I just can't see it.....Was there a relief in the filter adaptor, oil pump???........MP

[cfm]

Always used Fram, had no problems for years, then talked to a customer who worked at Fram and he made me afraid of them. If true or not, who knows, but NAPA and their Wix filters are local anyway, so I changed.

[Moneypitt]

Hey, I don't own any Fram stock or anything......And I'm not that particular about what brand I use, quite frankly, I'll use what ever is on sale for the street stuff. Another question, exactly what is an oil filter filtering?? If you're talking about chunks of metal it is way too late to worry. No filter in the world is gonna save the engine if it's pulling flakes thru the oil pump, its already gone.....Other than that, what is the filter, filtering out?? ......MP

[BOBALOO]

I will never use a Fram again if I have a choice! My last boat had a 454 that always got Fram filters until one of them broke apart inside the cannister and blocked the oil from circulating. There was no damage to the outside of the filter but the engine had to be torn down and rebuilt all for a 4$ part.

[gn7]

.....Other than that, what is the filter, filtering out?? ......MP
I have always agreed with this exact statement, what is in the motor that is being filter here, what is in the motor that you didn't let get in there when you build it. If its metal (large pieces) than no filter is going to save your azz anyway. If your thinking carbon, wear off the piston skirts, micro metal from plain wear etc. than change your oil more often, the filter is not stopping those anyway. That said, OLD FLAT is totally on, cut some open. After doing that I went from running only K&Ns to system one to truflow. I am done with all the others. One thing you have to always keep in mind now, these things aren't the filters your daddy always ran.

[Moneypitt]

GN7, who makes the Truflow? Is it a cleanable type like the system one? We tried one of those, it worked great, (I guess), but I couldn't get it off with the motor in the boat!! The Olsen cooler drops the filter down just enough so that it wouldn't come off! I know you GN guys go thru alot of ideas to make those blown endurance motors live for 10, 20, and more laps, and these guys are giving me some doubts about running the Frams on the PS motor!! When you said not what our daddys ran, are you refering to the imported filter cans, with the color and decals of your choice?.............MP

[RockIt]

I really like the Amsoil system. I have used the new Ea O filter since it was introduced. I used to use K&N oil filters and drain the Amsoi at 10,000. Now with the Ea O filter I drain at 25,000. I was skeptical at first but I got my used oil analyzed and it came out okay. I now have just under 250,000 miles on my SBC. Still runs like a champ.
Best thing is the transmission oil, I installed a spin-on filter on my trans line. Now I change the spin-on every 25,000 and do a 3 gallon tranny flush every100,000 miles. I also use a Filter Mag on both filters.
After I converted all fluids and grease to Amsoil, I picked up 1.5 MPG! Sometimes I miss the 1" nut on the bottom of the K&N.

[RockIt]

what is in the motor that is being filter here, what is in the motor that you didn't let get in there when you build it.
IMHO I beleive that what is actually filtered out is the normal products of combustion such as soot or anything else that could blow past a piston ring. I agree that if there is much metal, the motor is not long for this world (unless of course the case that the motor is being run for the first break-in period).

[gn7]

if you have a filter that can filter out soot and such than you a filter that is filtering way to small and is restrictive and is prolly in bypass more often than not, amsoil filter and the like are NOT high flow race filter designed to flow twenty some gallons of 50w per min. Make in the day there was a filter called a FRANZ that could filter nat shit out of your oil, and used MD toilet paper (A whole roll stuffed into the filter can) but it didn't flow worth a damn. Any filter that can filter below 40 microns is too restrictive.

[VDRIVERACING]

GN7, who makes the Truflow? Is it a cleanable type like the system one? We tried one of those, it worked great, (I guess), but I couldn't get it off with the motor in the boat!! The Olsen cooler drops the filter down just enough so that it wouldn't come off! I know you GN guys go thru alot of ideas to make those blown endurance motors live for 10, 20, and more laps, and these guys are giving me some doubts about running the Frams on the PS motor!! When you said not what our daddys ran, are you refering to the imported filter cans, with the color and decals of your choice?.............MP
MP - If you're at Parker in April, stop by and see my boat or Heath's PS 18. Heath fabricated some clean remote filter setups just inches from the cooler. All you need is a one quart baggie to slide over the filter, and you have a quick and easy filter change.

[gn7]

When you said not what our daddys ran, are you refering to the imported filter cans, with the color and decals of your choice?.............MP
if this was ment to be funny, it was. Actually what I was saying is that nothing is what it was because off shore junk makes good companies go bad. And the filters(Fram) most of these guys are refering to are prolly the low priced standard issue Fram filter and not HP 1 or 4's But I am still not a big fan of them, even though they're miles ahead of the standard stuff. Check your PMs for info on the truflo.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I run Baldwin filters on everything with a big fat magnet attached to the bottom.

[Moneypitt]

IMHO I beleive that what is actually filtered out is the normal products of combustion such as soot or anything else that could blow past a piston ring. I agree that if there is much metal, the motor is not long for this world (unless of course the case that the motor is being run for the first break-in period).
Just how much junk do you create "during break in period"? If you are creating metal shavings during break in don't worry about the oil filter. I would be more worried about the windows in the pan. Why is it people think there is supposed to be metal removed during break in? Any wear in or "marrage" of mating parts is so microscopic it might create a little dust. I personally don't have a break in period, fire it, set the timing, and wring it's neck..........(roller cams need no break in)..........MP

[Moneypitt]

MP - If you're at Parker in April, stop by and see my boat or Heath's PS 18. Heath fabricated some clean remote filter setups just inches from the cooler. All you need is a one quart baggie to slide over the filter, and you have a quick and easy filter change.
I will be there, and I will check it out.......I usually fab something myself, but the HP series has done just fine, and I don't have to clean them!!!! ...Ray

[centerhill condor]

a big fat magnet attached to the bottom.
me too! I put 'em on the fuel filters as well. never checked in the oil filter but see magnetic particles in the fuel filters. 20 year old tanks...go figure!

[Rexone]

I will cut some filters apart and post some pics of the internals.
Reg Fram
Fram HP
Baldwin
K&N
Wix (if I have one)

[VDRIVERACING]

I personally don't have a break in period, fire it, set the timing, and wring it's neck..........(roller cams need no break in)..........MP
10-4 on that!

[texas-19]

Hey, I don't own any Fram stock or anything......And I'm not that particular about what brand I use, quite frankly, I'll use what ever is on sale for the street stuff. Another question, exactly what is an oil filter filtering?? If you're talking about chunks of metal it is way too late to worry. No filter in the world is gonna save the engine if it's pulling flakes thru the oil pump, its already gone.....Other than that, what is the filter, filtering out?? ......MP
Before i switched to the Amsoil filter in my truck i called them and talked to a chemist and asked him why i should switch to their filter.
He said "wear is directly related to oil contamination.
Below 40 microns you cannot see them without a microscope and the shape of the particles are not round they have many sharp edges and lots of them.
Use a high grade of oil and the additives will absorb the carbon so it will not clog up the filter."
That's some of the stuff he said,i can't remember the rest of it.

[texas-19]

I will cut some filters apart and post some pics of the internals.
Reg Fram
Fram HP
Baldwin
K&N
Wix (if I have one)
Looking forward to that,not sure if the amsoil filter will flow enough,but i'll try to find out.

[GofastRacer]

if this was ment to be funny, it was. Actually what I was saying is that nothing is what it was because off shore junk makes good companies go bad. And the filters(Fram) most of these guys are refering to are prolly the low priced standard issue Fram filter and not HP 1 or 4's But I am still not a big fan of them, even though they're miles ahead of the standard stuff. Check your PMs for info on the truflo.
Fram is really not Fram anymore just a name, they went down the toilet when they sold out, tipical shit!.. What's with the Truflow???

[GofastRacer]

Just how much junk do you create "during break in period"? If you are creating metal shavings during break in don't worry about the oil filter. I would be more worried about the windows in the pan. Why is it people think there is supposed to be metal removed during break in? Any wear in or "marrage" of mating parts is so microscopic it might create a little dust. I personally don't have a break in period, fire it, set the timing, and wring it's neck..........(roller cams need no break in)..........MP
With a roller I run the shit out of it then cut the filter open, if it's clean then it's good to go!..

[old flat]

I will cut some filters apart and post some pics of the internals.
Reg Fram
Fram HP
Baldwin
K&N
Wix (if I have one)
True Dat, this is were we find out what you want to use. As was mentioned earlier, "when the motor falls apart, the oil filter is your last worry" But before it fails, as was mentioned earlier, this is when you need a quality product doing it's job filtering all the contaminates, wear metals, not destruction, but normal wear, and combustion by products that comes from running an internal combustion engine.
STEVE

[DEL51]

I took a hydraulic class at our local tech scool in 2001.The teacher supplied a 12 filter display of oil filters cut open at the base. Most were Identical. That was K-mart, Fram, Shell, Quakerstate, etc. A high end toughguard had a beefier case and the same internals as the previous filters. No K&N filter was cut open. The rest of the line up was NAPA gold and siver,Wix,Ac Delco,Baldwin,Purilator,Purilator one, and a few others. FRAM IS JUNK! they make filters for many companies. If you handled these internals and looked at the glue invading the filter media, whrere the ends are sealed, you would be astonished, It really stuck in my mind. Tried to tell my brother who runs fram and dino quaker, to no avail. That said, he runs 10-30w dino oil and changes every 2500 miles on a 97 dodge pickup. I also read where wix makes the ac and napa filters. Check out the oil forums. I run schaeffers 20-50w with a wix shorty in my tunnel. Used to be called BOBISTEOILGUY.COM, It may have changed but there are oil chemists and many other informative guys there. I added a magnet this year after I found out that sub micron and low micron ferrite particles are bad and not catched by filters. NO FRAM

[victorfb]

F.R.A.M. = For Rebuilding Another Motor. junk junk junk junk junk junk junk.....just my opinion....:D

[Machinist]

Frams are junk pure and simple, have seen them blow out(burst), and many instances of oil pressure fluctuation or lack of that was traced back to a collapsed fram filter.
I only use Wix (Napa Gold is made by Wix)

[DelawareDave]

I only use Wix (Napa Gold is made by Wix)
I picked up the cheapest filter available at Napa, $3.50, to use for fit up of my oiling system, and to preoil the motor. It has Wix on the label in fine print.

[gn7]

I will cut some filters apart and post some pics of the internals.
Reg Fram
Fram HP
Baldwin
K&N
Wix (if I have one)
maybe you guys forgot, but there is a really good filter comparo on mike's tech links at the top of this forum, check it out. One filter type nobody has mentioned is the synthetic media type like AC Delco "L" series and the Mobile 1 they flow better and don't filter down so little that they are clogged up in a heart beat.

[MKEELINE]

www.system1filters.com
This way you don't have to cut open your filter to see what's going on.

[GofastRacer]

Here's the link!..
Oil Comparo! (http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html)

[GofastRacer]

www.system1filters.com
This way you don't have to cut open your filter to see what's going on.
I thought about going to that!..

[VDRIVERACING]

Here's the link!..
Oil Comparo! (http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html)
Problem with this info is these are not racing oil filters. The article even lists one of the Frams as reccomended, but does not discuss the HP4 which many of us use.
I dont want to use a reccomended filter for a car application on a race motor. Geez, I'm more confused than before, although I am easily confused!
I am not an engine builder, but understand there are flow issues to consider for a race motor... I change my oil and filter every weekend(race event), so the critical needs for our very high performance motors may be different from your mom's Toyota, and these articles do not seem to address that in particular.

[VDRIVERACING]

If the relif valve opens at 22 PSI, and it only flows 10 gallons per minute, is the HP4 performing any service in race conditions?
Oil Filter Style: Canister
Height (in): 5.750
Outside Diameter (in): 3.71875
Filter Bypass Relief Valve: Yes
Relief Valve Open (psi): 22 psi
Anti Drain Back Valve: Yes
Smallest Particle Filtered: 15 microns
Maximum Burst Pressure (psi): 325 psi
Thread Size: 13/16-16 in.
Gasket Outside Diameter (in): 3.46875
Gasket Inside Diameter (in): 3.0625
Gasket Thickness (in): 0.34375
Quantity: Sold individually.
Trap particles as small as 15 microns.
Oil Filter High Perf. 10 GPM, 200 PSI, GM 6.5 Diesel, 13/16"-16 Thread
Fram's HP Series filters are for performance and racing use. The spin-on filters can trap particles as small as 15 microns, smaller than the 20-40 micron-sized particles that cause most engine wear. All filters have an anti-drainback valve. Maximum flow rate is 10 gpm, and maximum operating pressure is 200 psi.
Also fits all 6.2's, all years

[DUCKY]

Fram Sucks.....
I blew one apart (PH5) on a fresh small block with 85psi, and have seen many of them with the filter media collapsed, blocking almost all the oil flow to the motor.
I was dead set on WIX for a while, but recently cut open a K&N, and was very impressed. I have switched to them.

[gn7]

see, this a perfect example of what I said earlier, you deserved to have that thing blow up on your ass, for putting it on a motor that had 85 psi to begin with. it was made for stone stock motor with maybe 45, and I'll bet your bybass was blocked also. It's like saying I put pink small block rods in my motor and it tossed one at 7500, well duh. I'am not defending fram filters, stopped useing them years ago mainly do to flow issues which is what I think is what collapses them, along with the fact that the back up screen behind the media is a weak ass POS

[gn7]

Problem with this info is these are not racing oil filters. The article even lists one of the Frams as reccomended, but does not discuss the HP4 which many of us use.
thats the point, bet most of the guys having problems with Fram are not running HPs and their "FILTER" bypass on the filter mount is blocked off, they idle out of the no wake staight off the trailer for maybe 1 min. then hammer the shit out of it with a pan full of 50w, and then say damn FRAM filters. Again not defending them, they DON"T FLOW, but don't blame something that was never designed to do what your asking it to do.

[Rexone]

thats the point, bet most of the guys having problems with Fram are not running HPs and their "FILTER" bypass on the filter mount is blocked off, they idle out of the no wake staight off the trailer for maybe 1 min. then hammer the shit out of it with a pan full of 50w, and then say damn FRAM filters. Again not defending them, they DON"T FLOW, but don't blame something that was never designed to do what your asking it to do.
I would tend to agree with that scenario with the following exception. I've heard multiple stories over the years of guys changing the filter to a different brand and the problem disappearing.
The Fram I viewed in the burst test vs K&N was an HP Fram also. It will be interesting to see if they have the same internals as the stock Frams when I cut them apart.

[texas-19]

I have always agreed with this exact statement, what is in the motor that is being filter here, what is in the motor that you didn't let get in there when you build it. If its metal (large pieces) than no filter is going to save your azz anyway. If your thinking carbon, wear off the piston skirts, micro metal from plain wear etc. than change your oil more often, the filter is not stopping those anyway. That said, OLD FLAT is totally on, cut some open. After doing that I went from running only K&Ns to system one to truflow. I am done with all the others. One thing you have to always keep in mind now, these things aren't the filters your daddy always ran.
gn7,haven't heard of the truflow filter,why do you like it?

[VDRIVERACING]

Canton has some interesting ideas. Anyone have experience with those???

[DUCKY]

see, this a perfect example of what I said earlier, you deserved to have that thing blow up on your ass, for putting it on a motor that had 85 psi to begin with. it was made for stone stock motor with maybe 45, and I'll bet your bybass was blocked also. It's like saying I put pink small block rods in my motor and it tossed one at 7500, well duh. I'am not defending fram filters, stopped useing them years ago mainly do to flow issues which is what I think is what collapses them, along with the fact that the back up screen behind the media is a weak ass POS
I didn't know it was going to have 85 psi until I started it..... and besides, it was below freezing outside. Once the motor was broken in, and warm it only had about 60.
And no, the bypass wasn't blocked off, and and the pressure relief (MV55 HV Melling pump) had one small stainless washer in it behind the spring, and all I did to the pump was pull the cover, and tighten up the end play on the gears a little. Oh yeah, and it was full of 10-30 Castrol...Not 50w.

[gn7]

again here is the problem, there are two types of bypasses in every stock oil system, the one in the pump that regulates pressure and one on the filter mount, (or in the filter, FORD, MOPAR) that bypass oil around the filter when the oil is to thick (freezeing) clogged, or just plain to much oil flow. If you block the one for the filter then you best have a filter(s) that flow like the hoover dam.

[gn7]

I would tend to agree with that scenario with the following exception. I've heard multiple stories over the years of guys changing the filter to a different brand and the problem disappearing.
Mike I totally agree, they ain't what they used to be, And haven't used fram for years, but there are guys out there asking filters to do things they were never designed to do, like flow every drop of oil the pump puts out, which in the case of a 460 Ford is something around 19-20 gpm and chevy with a meliings 77 HV is pretty much the same, and there is very few filters out there designed to handle that kind of flow.

[sanger rat]

FYI Car Quest filters are made by Wix. I run Car Quest's version of a Fram HP6. Ten dollars cheaper than a Fram too.:)

[ERV JR]

Napa Filters Are Also Made By Wix, The Napa Gold Is The Same As The Wix Racing Filter. This Topic Was On A Drag Racing Site I Go On And Alot Of Guys Said They Had Problem S With Oil Pressure At Idle Or Pressure Being Unstable With The Fram And Was Fixed By Using A Wix Or Napa

[gn7]

http://trufilter.com/why.htm
my bad, truflo is a industrial air filter company I deal with at work

[thmper321]

My Father in Laws boat seized an engine because we got on it while the oil was still cold and the pressure busted the seems on the filter and blew all the oil out. Before we knew it there was no oil and no more engine. Also I tried a PH8A on my mustang with a high volume pump and felt the pressure was too low. I changed the filter and gained an instant 10lbs.

[GofastRacer]

http://trufilter.com/why.htm
my bad, truflo is a industrial air filter company I deal with at work
Similar to the System1, looks like a good unit!..

[SmokinLowriderSS]

again here is the problem, there are two types of bypasses in every stock oil system, the one in the pump that regulates pressure and one on the filter mount, (or in the filter, FORD, MOPAR) that bypass oil around the filter when the oil is to thick (freezeing) clogged, or just plain to much oil flow. If you block the one for the filter then you best have a filter(s) that flow like the hoover dam.
And yet some folks want to close off those bypasses which have a designed purpose, and run very high volume oil pumps.
They've never figured the pressure on the inside of that filter canister that tries to seperate the seam. Hint - it's way more than 70 pounds. Square inches surface area of the filter canister metal housing. :idea:

[Moneypitt]

My Father in Laws boat seized an engine because we got on it while the oil was still cold and the pressure busted the seems on the filter and blew all the oil out. Before we knew it there was no oil and no more engine. Also I tried a PH8A on my mustang with a high volume pump and felt the pressure was too low. I changed the filter and gained an instant 10lbs.
OK seems like every story about filter failures involves tremendous pressures. If a filter is weak and only "burst tests" to 250 lbs, and it bursts, that means there was over 250 lbs of pressure in the oil system. What happened to the by pass built into the oil pump? It would seem to me that that is a bad place to start stacking washers up to increase PSI..........Then there is also the factory type bypass at the filter adaptor. How did it allow excessive pressure to the point of filter can failure? As mentioned, these built in reliefs are there for a reason. I have seen ruptured filter cans, don't remember the brands, but all of them were on engines with modified, or non existing reliefs. Everyone has there preferences for different brands of everything from nuts and bolts to cylinder heads, and everything in between, why should oil filters be any different. I would never encourage anyone to use a product that they don't have confidence in, but until I experience a problem that can be directly related to the quality of a piece in the role it was designed for, I'll use them. To me, an exploded filter says alot more about the engine it is on than it does about the filter............MP

[thmper321]

If the motor were running an exteme amount of pressure I would definitely blame the motor. 75 psi is what did it for his boat. We have since added a very small hole in the front galley plug to help bleed off some pressure and help oil the distributor gear at the same time. Never had a problem again after that. He still uses Fram filters, but sticks to the HP series.

[VDRIVERACING]

If the HP4 relief opens at 22 PSI, and it only flows 10 GPM to begin with, I calculate it's filtering 11% of the oil at best.
I'm beginning to wonder if an HP4 is really doing much on a race motor, and how much it matters, considering the oil replacement schedule.
So the question remains, what is the actual role of the oil filter in our application, and are they (realistically) filling that role?

[gn7]

OK seems like every story about filter failures involves tremendous pressures. If a filter is weak and only "burst tests" to 250 lbs, and it bursts, that means there was over 250 lbs of pressure in the oil system. What happened to the by pass built into the oil pump? It would seem to me that that is a bad place to start stacking washers up to increase PSI..........Then there is also the factory type bypass at the filter adaptor. How did it allow excessive pressure to the point of filter can failure? ............MP
there seems to be alot of confussion about "reliefs" and "bypass". the pressure the filter can sees in regulated by the pressure relief valve in the pump. Removal of the "bypass" at the filter mount does not increase the pressure on the filter can, it is still what ever pressure the pump is set for. the bypass is there to open if the pressure on inlet side of the filter becomes "X" (10 to 12) higher than the outlet side (because it's plugged or you are asking it to flow more than it can handle). The valve opens and lets oil go straight to the motor with out going thru the filter. But the filter can still has the same pressure on it when ther bypass is open. Eliminating ther bypass can not blow up filter cans (only pump pressure can do this). BUT, eliminating the bypass can lead to IMPLODED filter media and total elimination of oil flow to motor, because if the oil can't get thru the filter fast enuff(clogged or to much volume for the filter size) the pressure on the outlet side falls to far below the inlet pressure and the damn thing collapses. Like I have said on this thread earlier, THE FROOKING THINGS DON'T FLOW ENUFF OIL

[gn7]

If the HP4 relief opens at 22 PSI, and it only flows 10 GPM to begin with, I calculate it's filtering 11% of the oil at best.
I'm beginning to wonder if an HP4 is really doing much on a race motor, and how much it matters, considering the oil replacement schedule.
So the question remains, what is the actual role of the oil filter in our application, and are they (realistically) filling that role?
Bill Jenkins did some tests back in the 70's and estimated that an HP 4 filter approx. 40-50% of the oil a SMALL BLOCK needed, the rest went unfiltered

[VDRIVERACING]

GN7 - Do you know what the bypass pressure is on the Truflow? I'm waiting on an email from their tech department...
It looks like a really nice piece ($175), and well engineered. Do you use the plug or the bypass on yours?

[gn7]

there isn't one, their idea is that (1) the filter flows well enuff if properly sized and (2) you are running a hi po motor and changing you oil often enuff that it isn't getting clogged. AND I RUN TWO IN PARALLEL and no external filter bypass, I have a gauge that tells me pump pressure, and a retina burning moron lite mounted on the steering post, set at 50psi, if that lite even blinks during the race, thats the first thing I hear on the radio. P.S. I bought mine at the long beach swap when they first came out and they were trying get them launched, for 100.00 ea

[texas-19]

http://trufilter.com/why.htm
my bad, truflo is a industrial air filter company I deal with at work
Nice unit,kinda pricy but compared to the amount of money i have in my motor it's worth it.
Was suprised to see jegs carries them.
Gn,what's the purpose of 2 filters?
How much oil pressure you run?
What kind of oil you use?

[sanger rat]

Specs for Wix racing filters. http://wixfilters.com/filterlookup/racing.asp

[VDRIVERACING]

there isn't one, their idea is that (1) the filter flows well enuff if properly sized and (2) you are running a hi po motor and changing you oil often enuff that it isn't getting clogged. AND I RUN TWO IN PARALLEL and no external filter bypass, I have a gauge that tells me pump pressure, and a retina burning moron lite mounted on the steering post, set at 50psi, if that lite even blinks during the race, thats the first thing I hear on the radio. P.S. I bought mine at the long beach swap when they first came out and they were trying get them launched, for 100.00 ea
Their website claims they have the option of plug or by-pass... This may be a more recent development for them... Hey, I really like the 2 running parallel! In that regard, it's hard to imagine plugging both and the motor still having enough hardware intact to run. BTW, we found a supplier for Conventional Racing Valvoline...that stuff was hard to run down, but sounds worth the trouble.

[Moneypitt]

BTW, we found a supplier for Conventional Racing Valvoline...that stuff was hard to run down, but sounds worth the trouble.
Local to So Cal??????...........Info please........MP

[gn7]

Hey, I really like the 2 running parallel! In that regard, it's hard to imagine plugging both and the motor still having enough hardware intact to run. BTW, we found a supplier for Conventional Racing Valvoline...that stuff was hard to run down, but sounds worth the trouble.
the reason for the two filters is NOT so you can trap more junk, the more filter area you have, the less pressure drop across the filter, if it were an air filter, would you use a 6" dia or a 14" on top of a dominator. Its about flow with the least restriction. Also my deal has the two filters and oil cooler in one unit, Homan and Moody built them in the '60s, but the internals are Olsen and was made when the only filters available were disposables, and didn't flow any better then, than now. About valvaline conv. racing, it's basically what was VR1 back, just year or so ago, and look at what the did to the price!!! For the differance in price of a good mineral oil and syn, its getting harder to justify useing conv.

[VDRIVERACING]

About valvaline conv. racing, it's basically what was VR1 back, just year or so ago, and look at what the did to the price!!! For the differance in price of a good mineral oil and syn, its getting harder to justify useing conv.
Valvoline - $5/qt
Red Line Syn - $8 ($50 more per oil change)
Royal Purple - $12 ($112 more per oil change) Wow, $200 for an oil change!

[gn7]

Valvoline - $5/qt
Red Line Syn - $8 ($50 more per oil change)
Royal Purple - $12 ($112 more per oil change) Wow, $200 for an oil change!
I said this on another thread, it costs a ton of money to make oil purple as opposed red, green or orange. are you sure that the valvoline isn't vr1, last time I checked valvoline convent. racing was about $9.00+, and VR1 ain't what it once was.

[VDRIVERACING]

I said this on another thread, it costs a ton of money to make oil purple as opposed red, green or orange. are you sure that the valvoline isn't vr1, last time I checked valvoline convent. racing was about $9.00+, and VR1 ain't what it once was.
$28.50 per six quart case from the distributor... With tax, about $5/qt. You can get the VR1 through their front desk, I had to get the sales rep to check the distribution center to find the conventional. Did my homework bra....

[GofastRacer]

Just a heads up if anyone wants the good ole "green" stuff, it's available for $3.50-$4.00 a quart!..