Police and Firemen

[Big Warlock]

I know this is going to start some shiat, but here goes.
On a previous thread, there was one policeman / fireman complaining about rate of pay. Basically the insinuation (sp?) is that they are not paid enough for the "public service" they do. I appreciate both police and firemen, but wasn't this your chosen profession? (I think there are only 7 true "professions") I don't get all the bitterness towards what you guys get paid? If the LEO you work for doesn't pay what you want, shouldn't you change? Why not change professions? I hear they are paying big money to go to Iraq as hired guns?
My next question is about the "orphans and widows" fund? Why not have life insurance like the rest of the population? It works for us. Why not you?
And if you guys are the lowest paid then could we be doing better for society by raising pay and getting better personnel? That question might answer that many in public service are there because they love the job and pay, at one time, was a secondary factor.
Just thinking about it. Not trying to get into a pissing contest. Just trying to get a feel about this.

[bocco]

I know of a fireman/EMT that brings home over $130K a year with a little OT. I don't know this for sure but I think the retirement is close to full pay and bennies.

[79Challenger]

Yea... Working 3 days a week and coming up with a 54 hour work week on your check sounds alright to me.

[Tyson Ross]

La Paz County SO = $31,625 / year. Sad but true.
Don't forget some spend every weekend at work and holidays away from family.

[Mr. C]

same here (LE) neighbor bringing way more than 100k, more than a little bit of OT.
Not sure about this either but i think they can retire after 20 yrs with full benefits, age is not a factor either. At least it was this way with my brother-in-law from N.Y. retired at 43 full bennies.
I know of a fireman/EMT that brings home over $130K a year with a little OT. I don't know this for sure but I think the retirement is close to full pay and bennies.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

LAPD has 3 excellent retirement plans, a choice of 5 medical plans, two dental plans.
They also have the fantastic DROP plan:
You can draw both your retirement AND your pay up to 5 of the last years of employment.
Phil Wright, a good friend and soon to retire Sgt with the LAPD and my recently retired LAPD brother, have each saved almost 1 million dollars (after added to/supplemented with their existing 25 year running Deferred Compensation retirement accounts) with DROP and in addition will draw about $80.000 per year pension, with up to 3 % annual COLAS, sometimes higher.
This in addition to the other retirement funds they have set up, and at age 55.
You can do good if you invest in the plans they offer.
Being a LEO has to suck though.
I have siblings with the LAPD and being sprayed point blank by some assholes colostomy bag, broken nose, stitches, arguing with jerks has really changed them for the worse.

[CBadDad]

LAPD has 3 excellent retirement plans, a choice of 5 medical plans, two dental plans.
They also have the fantastic DROP plan:
You can draw both your retirement AND your pay up to 5 of the last years of employment.
Phil Wright, a good friend and soon to retire Sgt with the LAPD and my recently retired LAPD brother, have each saved almost 1 million dollars with DROP and will draw about $80.000 per year pension, with up to 3 % annual COLAS, sometimes higher.
This in addition to the other two retirement funds they have set up, and at age 55.
Being a LEO has to suck though.
I have siblings with the LAPD and being sprayed point blank by some assholes colostomy bag, broken nose, stitches, arguing with jerks has really changed them for the worse.
I call BS! $80K time five years even earning interest is no where near $1M

[CBadDad]

I can't speak for everyone here, but when I look around and see what other professions make, it's a little discouraging to me. I guess I could move on and start over, but after twenty years as a firefighter/paramedic what am I gonna do? The real money is working for yourself, taking the risk and the high reward that comes with it. My brother for instance, makes mid six figures owning a construction company. Now, he hates his job but he also races Porsches on the weekends and lives quite comfortably. This all after dropping out of high school.
Me? I have a bachelor degree and an associates degree. I also have an honorable discharge from the military and I also must do a ton of continuing education every year. I have never made six figures in my career. I cannot afford to buy a home in the area where I work. I have taken two 5% pay cuts over the last two years and now we are on the verge of going to impasse, because of another proposed pay cut. All because of the City's mismanagement of their books. Does that seem right to anybody out there? I mean, if I ran my budget the way the city does, they would throw me in jail.
The bottom line is that public safety personnel need to make an average cost of living so that they can raise a family and survive in the community that they work in (or at least close enough to commute with the high cost of gas). I’m not asking to live in a beach front home or a mansion on top of a hill, just live an honest middle class life style, and with the wages I am currently making, that cannot be done. Is that too much to ask for?

[BADBLOWN572]

I have several friend who are LEO's in Orange County. I was talking to one of them on Wednesday night. He got hired at 21 by the Sherrifs Dept, transfered to one PD, then transfered to his current one. He will be able to retire at age 50 with 80-90% of his highest paid year. He has 10 years senority at the current PD. His schedule is 6:00am-6:00pm Tues, Wed, Thurs. Sounds pretty sweet to me! He said that he can easily go over 100K per year just by putting in a little O.T.
He loves it. He highly recommends anyone looking for a good carreer to get into it. I really have not heard much complaining from anyone that I know other than hazards of the job. Compensation they are happy with. :)

[DirtySquirty]

I left LE back in the 80's. Money wasn't bad...job sucked!! Bottom line is if they don't like job/money...do somethin else!!

[little rowe boat]

I new when I took the job that I would not be rich. What I did not know at the time was that to live in a nice middle class neighborhood, that my wife would also have to work. I do wish I made more so that my better half could stay home with the little one. I am not complaining, because I do enjoy my chosen career, which is more than some can say.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

My fire Dept friends all pull about $76.000 base pay + overtime, and have enough time off to run very sucessfull Elect contracting business, A/C biz, and all the time off they want to hit the river.
Benefits are excellent, retirement will be flirting with $80 grand a year too + tax deffered Deffered Compensation retirement accounts.
The firemen we hang with are all teriffic, appreciate their jobs and benefits and have made it a major lifes effort trying to keep their marriages intact.
Not easy to do when you're a LEO or fireman.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

I call BS! $80K time five years even earning interest is no where near $1M
I should have wrote:
That as added with / and supplemented to their existing 25 year old LAPD Defered Compensation (pre-tax defered IRA kinda) retirement account that was invested in Fidelity Magellian & Janus Mercury.
You can back load them and front load extra savings from the other tax deffered retirement accounts too.
So look up fidelity Magellian and Janus Mercurys track records, drop $460 a month in, defer ALL the taxes, and THEN do the math.
They are both sitting on almost a million bux.
You can do good financially as a LEO, but I couldnt handle dealing with jerks all day.

[seanv]

there's alot about both careers that some would say the pay is not enough of a compensation. are teachers paid enough? i think everyone would agree they are not. le as well as fire choose their professions for more than the paycheck. myself i would never be le due to the major lack of respect for them by the public.
to all the men/women in both services, i thank you for your services!!:D

[Throttle]

I love my job!:D

[HavaSkank]

I have a terrible track record of dating civil servants, especially firemen. Some say it's my obnoxious Type-A personality that attracts the bastards.
What in the hell does a broad have to do to attract a Neuro Surgeon? Or a Diamond mine owner? Or a professional althete? Damn, Im hangin' out in the wrong dive bars.

[Throttle]

I have a terrible track record of dating civil servants, especially firemen. Some say it's my obnoxious Type-A personality that attracts the bastards.
What in the hell does a broad have to do to attract a Neuro Surgeon? Or a Diamond mine owner? Or a professional althete? Damn, Im hangin' out in the wrong dive bars.
eazy.... take it eazy....

[HavaSkank]

Was it the "bastard" comment or the "dive bar" comment that irked ya?
OR...you are the owner of a diamond mine and you dont want to be lumped with cops and fireman?

[BiggusJimbus]

Seems to me that the worst thing is the high number of long term injuries that seem to occur.
Like any job, if you can't stand it, do something else.

[b's sanger]

I know this is going to start some shiat, but here goes.
On a previous thread, there was one policeman / fireman complaining about rate of pay. Basically the insinuation (sp?) is that they are not paid enough for the "public service" they do. I appreciate both police and firemen, but wasn't this your chosen profession? (I think there are only 7 true "professions") I don't get all the bitterness towards what you guys get paid? If the LEO you work for doesn't pay what you want, shouldn't you change? Why not change professions? I hear they are paying big money to go to Iraq as hired guns?
My next question is about the "orphans and widows" fund? Why not have life insurance like the rest of the population? It works for us. Why not you?
And if you guys are the lowest paid then could we be doing better for society by raising pay and getting better personnel? That question might answer that many in public service are there because they love the job and pay, at one time, was a secondary factor.
Just thinking about it. Not trying to get into a pissing contest. Just trying to get a feel about this.
How much is putting your life on the line for a stranger worth. Very naive view.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I think I'll stay out of this...I'm sure most of you know my feelings...( atleast til I get back from work)
Teachers, make a decent living when you take into account that they only work 3/4s of a year + have great bennies and great job secuirty.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Somebody wrote once that New Orleans cops are paid $13 per hour with a junk pension.
Aren't Havasu cops paid like $18 per hr with just an IRA?
Not a living wage in my book.
More lead in the air in New Orleans too btw.
Dealing with jerks all day, ya punch one back and go to jail.
Nahh, not for this kid.

[MAF]

I second that throttle. My eighteen years so far have been good to me and my family. I cant complain when I'am able to retire at the age of 44 if I want!!;)

[beaverretriever]

All city/county employees pay is PUBLIC RECORD. You can look it up yourself.;)
BTW, I know what all the Cops and Firefighters make here in town. I run their credit a couple times a week. They buy a lot of bikes from me.:)
The average Firefighter here in Clark County/Vegas/Henderson area makes about 100k-135k. Yes, its a lot. There is a reason its almost imposible to get on the fire dept here.
The average Policeman in Clark County/Vegas/Henderson makes 80k-120k. IMHO, the cops should make more than the firefighters.
NHP (Nv Hwy Patrol) makes 10-20k less a yr than a Metro or Henderson Officer.

[HavaSkank]

I sure as hell wouldnt run into a burning building, or kick down a door at a crack house in Compton for peanuts.
However, I will add that my job as a freelance conjugical visitor also serves the public and contributes positively to mankind. My profession goes appreciated only by a selective few.

[Newcastle]

Let me preface by saying I have no issues with anybody stating their opinion. This is only a discussion (for now:D ), but the funny thing is you don't hear most cops and firemen complain about the money unless asked...or starting threads for that matter. Of course they would like to get paid more money, who wouldn't? Its been a long time since I've heard of either group strike like a grocery workers union.
Most cop friends of mine make good money, some even without degrees. But you can't just look at their Gross Income. Its true, benefits seem good, if not great, and that's a major reason most of them chose the profession. Yeah their gross is 80k or so without overtime, but when paying their unions for political action committes, retirement funds, deferred comp plans, and KIA funds for the widows, their paychecks aren't as big as I'd expect. Did you know the widows fund, that the cops themselves pay for, is only like 50k or so if a wife loses her husband? At least that's what I've been told. Obviously not gonna get far in todays world. As far as the 3 days a week plan, 40 hrs is 40 hrs. Nobody gets jealous of the first 10 years or so of their career when they're pulling the weekend graveyard shifts, building their seniority so they won't have to miss their kids' baseball/soccer games growing up. Its depressing to think they can't afford to live in the city they work.
All in all they seem happy and wouldn't be there if it wasn't worth it.
It'd be nice to get higher quality guys to fill all the vacancies, but there's more to it than just a pay increase. Not all job openings have the strict criteria; physical fitness (and yes, not all are fit by any means), clean (relatively) background, financially stable, some education, morally/ethically balanced, etc...the pool is small to pull from cuz out of 300 applicants, seems like they're lucky to hire 2 or 3, and its like a year process.
I hope this doesn't turn into a pissing contest, these are just some of my views. Like I said, seems like most, if not all that I know, are satisfied. Just trying to share an opinion.

[PBOCOP]

I'll chime in.
I graduated with a Bachelor's in Business Accounting and was going to do the Law School route. I decided Law Enforcement instead.
I have loved the job and the money and everything about it since Day 1. I've been doing it over 15 years now and if I had to do it all over, I would do the same thing all over again.
Money might not be why I do it, but I can't complain either. I was making 80-100k a year as a kid !! But the thing is, I have always been able to get any day, any week, any month off that I want, and that fits my style much better than a 5 day a week job, with 2 weeks vacation. I've probably averaged around $100-170k the past 10 years, but at times I look to see how much I work and it was about 6 months out of each year. So get paid decent, work half of the year, 3 days a week, get a 90% retirement salary, and I'm done in less than 10 years from now. I still feel like a kid so can't even imagine being done in less than 10 years, but it's true.
So I think if you look at the overall picture, what you get paid now and in the future, the benefits, and how much you actually work, it's a good job. An example is that after all these years and feeling like I barely ever work, I have 500 hours of Vacation, 250 hours of Comp Time, and 1000 hours of Sick time to use anytime I want.
Anyways, from my perspective, I love the job, the pay has put me at a level with homes, toys, assets to debts, that I'm very very secure with, and I would do it all over again.
Patrick O'Malley

[Boatcop]

Somebody wrote once that New Orleans cops are paid $13 per hour with a junk pension.
Aren't Havasu cops paid like $18 per hr with just an IRA?
Not a living wage in my book.
More lead in the air in New Orleans too btw.
Dealing with jerks all day, ya punch one back and go to jail.
Nahh, not for this kid.
Havasu Police start at $40,789 ($19.61/HR)
Top out at $49,566 @ 8 years ($23.82)/HR)
That's about average, or maybe a little higher for Arizona Cities, and much higher than most County Sheriff's Departments. They also have a 3-5% shift differential pay.
Like all Arizona Police and Fire, they are in the State Public Safety Retirement Program. 50% of high 3 year average pay at 20 years. 2.5% more for each year above 20. Plus reduced rate Health Insurance.
We also have DROP which, for us, means if we enter DROP after 20 years service, we can only work for an additional 5 years. We stop contributing to the retirement Plan, and begin getting our retirement into a special account. After 5 years (or earlier, if we choose) we get a lump sum payment of whatever is in the DROP account, + interest. There is no requirement to enter DROP, it's strictly up to the individual. Depending on the rate of pay and rate of return, most DROP folks get between $150,000 - $250,000 cash upon final retirement, and then begin collecting their pension.
In my case, if I entered DROP, I would then be able to join into the Arizona State Employee retirement for those 5 years. But I don't plan to. I'll retire when I reach age 60, and then start collecting my Military (Reserve) Pension as well as Public Safety Pension. Throw in Mrs. BoatCop's Federal Pension, and investment income, we'll be making more money retired than we are working.
And for us, that's all that matters.

[Lunatic]

I work in Riverside County and am doing very well in the finance department. I have have 11 years as a LEO and have all with only a high school diploma. I have successfully pulled in over 95k in the past three years. I started when I was 21 and with the new retirement system i can retire at 50 with i believe 105% of my last years wage (without overtime). I figure I have another 18 years to go and plan on climbing up the ladder to a management position.
Of course, I would love to get paid more (as anyone would), but as long as the cost of living increases keep up I am just fine.:D :D

[Big Warlock]

How much is putting your life on the line for a stranger worth. Very naive view.
The point is that it is voluntary.
I have put my life on the line for my country. Been there, done that. Thanks!
And then I choose to do something different with my life. Read the complete thought before you throw your crap out! :eek:

[Big Warlock]

All city/county employees pay is PUBLIC RECORD. You can look it up yourself.;)
BTW, I know what all the Cops and Firefighters make here in town. I run their credit a couple times a week. They buy a lot of bikes from me.:)
The average Firefighter here in Clark County/Vegas/Henderson area makes about 100k-135k. Yes, its a lot. There is a reason its almost imposible to get on the fire dept here.
The average Policeman in Clark County/Vegas/Henderson makes 80k-120k. IMHO, the cops should make more than the firefighters.
NHP (Nv Hwy Patrol) makes 10-20k less a yr than a Metro or Henderson Officer.
And that, my friends, is the jist of the argument! Well said. For the few that keep complaining that they deserve untold wealth because they are doing a public service, get over it! Of course your appreciated, but you knew how much you were going to get paid from the begining. It was another thread that set this up with the complaining about pay. I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss. And I am surprised at the over all result. Pleasantly surprised in fact.
For the firemen and policemen, thank you. And, for the record, I wish everyone made $1m per year! But most of us know how that goes. :D

[Riomouse911]

Why the rant? Wife leave you for a fireman?

[seanv]

ez rob! play nice with others;)

[BoatPI]

I will not get into the details, but anyone with an open mind enters LEO due to a number personal of reasons. None of them includes getting rich on the salary.
Many are hurt seriously, or sustain life long injuries, some less serious than others.
Having spent more time in law enforcement than I imagine most of the peeps on this board, I reflected back when I retired on how many co-workers, friends, and just outstanding individuals who were not around when I pulled the pin.
Seventeen never made it to my party as they were 6 feet under.
I miss them all.

[Flyinbowtie]

SoCal is another world when it comes to cop/fireman pay.
And they earn it.
In 25 years, I never made more than 30.00 an hour as a top sergeant.
I got to leave with these;
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/15259Back_pic_one.jpg
And the probablity of getting a couple of more, if things go as expected.
And 50% tax free for life.
And, I can never work again. At anything.
Life changing event?
Yeah.

[SixDays]

This is the only contribution I plan on making to this thread...
If you aren't a fireman/LEO, and you aren't married to one, you probably don't know the reality of what we make/don't make. I'm sure you probably heard it from a friend, who probably has a friend or cousin or whatever who is a fireman/LEO. I'm really tired of the firefighters make so much $$$ because that's what someone wants me to believe.
With that said, I work for a department that is on the low side of the paysclae in my area. I do love my job, and that is worth something to me. I do feel we could be paid a little more equally to our comparison deartments, but overall I feel like I have some financial security.
Now, how do you put a price on your family life? Look at our divorce rate. This job wreaks havoc on families. Some guys work extra OT to help cover the bills. They may make over 100k, but their families are also making a huge sacrifice. If you want to talk about management, sure, they make a nice salary. You must remember that most, and I do mean most floor personell do not make 100k on their best year, unless they absolutely live at work through OT.
BTW, thanks for stayin cool YelloBoat. I know your sentiments, and your restraint is appreciated!!!

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Havasu Police start at $40,789 ($19.61/HR)
Top out at $49,566 @ 8 years ($23.82)/HR)
That's about average, or maybe a little higher for Arizona Cities, and much higher than most County Sheriff's Departments. They also have a 3-5% shift differential pay.
Like all Arizona Police and Fire, they are in the State Public Safety Retirement Program. 50% of high 3 year average pay at 20 years. 2.5% more for each year above 20. Plus reduced rate Health Insurance.
We also have DROP which, for us, means if we enter DROP after 20 years service, we can only work for an additional 5 years. We stop contributing to the retirement Plan, and begin getting our retirement into a special account. After 5 years (or earlier, if we choose) we get a lump sum payment of whatever is in the DROP account, + interest. There is no requirement to enter DROP, it's strictly up to the individual. Depending on the rate of pay and rate of return, most DROP folks get between $150,000 - $250,000 cash upon final retirement, and then begin collecting their pension.
In my case, if I entered DROP, I would then be able to join into the Arizona State Employee retirement for those 5 years. But I don't plan to. I'll retire when I reach age 60, and then start collecting my Military (Reserve) Pension as well as Public Safety Pension. Throw in Mrs. BoatCop's Federal Pension, and investment income, we'll be making more money retired than we are working.
And for us, that's all that matters.
Thanks Alan, always good to get the official word from BC.

[Big Warlock]

Why the rant? Wife leave you for a fireman?
God I wish! But no, sorry, she won't leave me unless he makes more than me!!! :D
This was started because of another thread where the complaint was issued. I honestly wanted to know what people thought. I know there are a number of firemen and policemen on here and wanted their opinion. And I am surprised that most seem happy with their salary and life. That's a good thing. Everyone biatches about their income, life, etc. etc. But it is nice to get at the "true" sentiment. I think we got that here.
Overall a good thread!
I know a couple of policemen, retired and active and a few firemen. And they have done well for themselves.
And when it comes to pay vs sacrifice, I will put the troops at the head of the line. Because unless you have been deployed overseas in combat, you really have no idea what sacrifice is all about. And you certainly don't know about "pay" situations! :devil:

[RiverToysJas]

I read somewhere if you dail 911 you can make a Cop cum but I think it works for firemen too......and maybe Ambulance drivers..... http://www.***boat.com/ubb/graemlins/idea_2.gif
RTJas :D

[Ultracrazy]

Why the rant? Wife leave you for a fireman?
Typical

[Riomouse911]

Typical? Mighty big paintbrush yer packin there.

[Ultracrazy]

Typical? Mighty big paintbrush yer packin there.
You supplied the canvas.........

[LHC30Victory]

I have heard a long time ago, and still believe to this day, that Police Officers are OVERPAID about 80% of the time :D ; Paid just about right for maybe 15% of the time:idea: ; and NEVER PAID ENOUGH for that last 5% :eek:
I also believe that most all officers are in this job for reasons other than shear $$ - that they genuinely want to help folks...It is those same folks that usually dont have a CLUE what they are being shielded against by these officers.
Dont forget 9/11! that is the Classic Example of what both Officers and Firefighters do on a daily basis - being first responders it is they who figure out how bad a situation really is - and often at a cost of their emotional or physical well being....How do you compensate for that??

[Wicky]

I'll chime in.
I graduated with a Bachelor's in Business Accounting and was going to do the Law School route. I decided Law Enforcement instead.
I have loved the job and the money and everything about it since Day 1. I've been doing it over 15 years now and if I had to do it all over, I would do the same thing all over again.
Money might not be why I do it, but I can't complain either. I was making 80-100k a year as a kid !! But the thing is, I have always been able to get any day, any week, any month off that I want, and that fits my style much better than a 5 day a week job, with 2 weeks vacation. I've probably averaged around $100-170k the past 10 years, but at times I look to see how much I work and it was about 6 months out of each year. So get paid decent, work half of the year, 3 days a week, get a 90% retirement salary, and I'm done in less than 10 years from now. I still feel like a kid so can't even imagine being done in less than 10 years, but it's true.
So I think if you look at the overall picture, what you get paid now and in the future, the benefits, and how much you actually work, it's a good job. An example is that after all these years and feeling like I barely ever work, I have 500 hours of Vacation, 250 hours of Comp Time, and 1000 hours of Sick time to use anytime I want.
Anyways, from my perspective, I love the job, the pay has put me at a level with homes, toys, assets to debts, that I'm very very secure with, and I would do it all over again.
Patrick O'Malley
Hey Pat,
Would it be possible for you to loan me some of that Vacation/Comp/Sick time??
I'll pay it back with interest and free sushi!!!
Mow,
Wicky

[IT'SONLYMONEY]

hows this for pay, after we pay our own insurance, retirement, and health benefits, a deputy is lucky to bring home without over time 850bucks every two weeks. yeah that's right 850bucks. you can't even rent a home for that. not to mention the job has become so undesireable, that we can't get people to "choose" like you say, this proffession. we have been forced to work mandatory over time for that last year in a half, which means in lamons terms, working our normal work week and then having to cover another one to two shifts a week away from our families and homes. maybe those of you who think we get paid enough should come do what we do for a day and i'll bet you will agree there is no money worth being a cop.
fireman i can't speak on becasue i'm not one.
come work in our jails were, at least in kern county, we are averaging 3 assaults a month on staff. how would you like to go to work every day not knowing if you were going to come home safe or not.
the most you people who judge us without knowing what the hell you are talking about have to watch out for on a daily bassis is the danger in crossing the road to go to lunch. these boards are for discussion how ever you should discuss things you know about and not show your ignorance on them. i did choose to do what i do but i did not ask for people like you to judge our pay scales. sit behind you desk and feel safe that us "overpaied" county and city employees are there to protect your dumb ass.
here's a thought, go to your local police station and jail and ask to do a ride a long with one of them. then after you see how badly we are all understaffed, over worked, and yes in some areas, underpaid, you will think twice before opening your mouth.
don't mean to come across mean, but i am passionate about what i do and am tired of people judging us with no understanding of what goes on. realistically, everyone should have a gun in their house because if you think the police are going to be at your house in time to save you, you are mistaken. the one that is going to save you and your family is 9 times out of 10 going to be yourself.

[little rowe boat]

hows this for pay, after we pay our own insurance, retirement, and health benefits, a deputy is lucky to bring home without over time 850bucks every two weeks. yeah that's right 850bucks. you can't even rent a home for that. not to mention the job has become so undesireable, that we can't get people to "choose" like you say, this proffession. we have been forced to work mandatory over time for that last year in a half, which means in lamons terms, working our normal work week and then having to cover another one to two shifts a week away from our families and homes. maybe those of you who think we get paid enough should come do what we do for a day and i'll bet you will agree there is no money worth being a cop.
fireman i can't speak on becasue i'm not one.
come work in our jails were, at least in kern county, we are averaging 3 assaults a month on staff. how would you like to go to work every day not knowing if you were going to come home safe or not.
the most you people who judge us without knowing what the hell you are talking about have to watch out for on a daily bassis is the danger in crossing the road to go to lunch. these boards are for discussion how ever you should discuss things you know about and not show your ignorance on them. i did choose to do what i do but i did not ask for people like you to judge our pay scales. sit behind you desk and feel safe that us "overpaied" county and city employees are there to protect your dumb ass.
here's a thought, go to your local police station and jail and ask to do a ride a long with one of them. then after you see how badly we are all understaffed, over worked, and yes in some areas, underpaid, you will think twice before opening your mouth.
don't mean to come across mean, but i am passionate about what i do and am tired of people judging us with no understanding of what goes on. realistically, everyone should have a gun in their house because if you think the police are going to be at your house in time to save you, you are mistaken. the one that is going to save you and your family is 9 times out of 10 going to be yourself.
I don't think he was bagging on LE and firefighters, he was just saying we made the choice to do what we do.

[RP2]

I can't speak for everyone here, but when I look around and see what other professions make, it's a little discouraging to me. I guess I could move on and start over, but after twenty years as a firefighter/paramedic what am I gonna do? The real money is working for yourself, taking the risk and the high reward that comes with it. My brother for instance, makes mid six figures owning a construction company. Now, he hates his job but he also races Porsches on the weekends and lives quite comfortably. This all after dropping out of high school.
Me? I have a bachelor degree and an associates degree. I also have an honorable discharge from the military and I also must do a ton of continuing education every year. I have never made six figures in my career. I cannot afford to buy a home in the area where I work. I have taken two 5% pay cuts over the last two years and now we are on the verge of going to impasse, because of another proposed pay cut. All because of the City's mismanagement of their books. Does that seem right to anybody out there? I mean, if I ran my budget the way the city does, they would throw me in jail.
The bottom line is that public safety personnel need to make an average cost of living so that they can raise a family and survive in the community that they work in (or at least close enough to commute with the high cost of gas). I’m not asking to live in a beach front home or a mansion on top of a hill, just live an honest middle class life style, and with the wages I am currently making, that cannot be done. Is that too much to ask for?
You really need to look at moving to another Department. I don't think I even know a Firefighter/EMT that doesn't clear a 100k a year... some more around the 125,000 mark.

[prop check]

I can speak first hand on this subject. I feel I make a very good amount of money for what I do I have done this job for a lot less and like all, would love to do this job for more. I feel LEO's should be paid better and I support them. (My brother is a cop and makes less than I do.). I am the lowest paid of all my friends but I can honestly say I live a better quality of life than most. To anybody in the Fire service who does not like the money they make or thinks they should be better paid I offer you these solutions:
1. LEAVE !
or
2. Get up from the kitchen table put down the paper and fix your problems.
Just my .02

[famaffair]

This is the only contribution I plan on making to this thread...
If you aren't a fireman/LEO, and you aren't married to one, you probably don't know the reality of what we make/don't make. I'm sure you probably heard it from a friend, who probably has a friend or cousin or whatever who is a fireman/LEO. I'm really tired of the firefighters make so much $$$ because that's what someone wants me to believe.
With that said, I work for a department that is on the low side of the paysclae in my area. I do love my job, and that is worth something to me. I do feel we could be paid a little more equally to our comparison deartments, but overall I feel like I have some financial security.
Now, how do you put a price on your family life? Look at our divorce rate. This job wreaks havoc on families. Some guys work extra OT to help cover the bills. They may make over 100k, but their families are also making a huge sacrifice. If you want to talk about management, sure, they make a nice salary. You must remember that most, and I do mean most floor personell do not make 100k on their best year, unless they absolutely live at work through OT.
BTW, thanks for stayin cool YelloBoat. I know your sentiments, and your restraint is appreciated!!!
Well said, there is no way leo or fireman are making 100k or more without putting in some serious time away from the family.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Just a few things I need to add here...
A couple people mention that LEOs and Firmen have "dangerous jobs" Well according to OSHA, per man hour you don't, infact your not even in the top 10. Nor are "on the job" related injurys in the top 10. unlike the other jobs that at the top of the list of "dangerous jobs" if you are killed "on the job" your spouse and/or kids still get paid.
As far as making $$$$ and not being home... its like that in most jobs. Almost every one I know that makes over 100k a year( other then public survice employees) spends alot of time away from thier family. most work atleast 12 hour days and many work 6 or 7 days a week. Other then 1 person ( who is working for daddy and making a 100k + :rolleyes: who does not know what work is...) to get to the point of making 100k+ a year at some point they had to spend a lot of time away from thier familys. Thats just the way it works.
I've spent alot of time working out of state over the years, its not like it is in CA... Even the older retired firemen and LEO from CA( atleast the ones I have meet, sold every thing and were glad to "get the fook out"... ) think whats going on in places in CA when it comes to these two professions is a joke.

[hoolign]

I have a terrible track record of dating civil servants, especially firemen. Some say it's my obnoxious Type-A personality that attracts the bastards.
What in the hell does a broad have to do to attract a Neuro Surgeon? Or a Diamond mine owner? Or a professional althete? Damn, Im hangin' out in the wrong dive bars.
I own a Naugahyde ranch if ya wanna get down! :D

[IT'SONLYMONEY]

Well said, there is no way leo or fireman are making 100k or more without putting in some serious time away from the family.
it's free and easy go to your county or city web page and look at the pay scale. then do the math. even a grade school child could tell you there is no way these people are making anything close to 100k a year unless they choose to work almost every day a week and neglect their families considerably. working all the time may work for some. but for most it costs them their families.
bottom line is just because you know guys making this, doesn't mean you know how, why, and to what price they are having to pay for it. how many of them are divorced? that's what i thought.
do your homework. there is not one city or state i know that pays 100k to their civil services such as fire and police. maybe after 25yrs in and you are topped out at a commanders, or even sheriff himself pay. but the ones you see on your streets are suffering in most places. location has a big part to do with pay as well.
anyways
i love what i do and am very good at it as well. if it wasn't for me and my fellow half crazy co workers, these people who choose to question anything we do, wouldn't be able to live in gated communities and feel safe crossing the streets or going to the stores. maybe next time one of these people that judge call 911 and realize the time lapse in which it takes to get help they will realize where i am coming from

[YeLLowBoaT]

do your homework. there is not one city or state i know that pays 100k to their civil services such as fire and police. maybe after 25yrs in and you are topped out at a commanders, or even sheriff himself pay. but the ones you see on your streets are suffering in most places. location has a big part to do with pay as well.
My local Fire district does not disclose the exact pay scale of its employees( atleast not that I could find on thier very poorly designed sight...)
but I did find a copy of thier budget for last year...they spent 121,987,613 last year on salery and bennies last year( just pay and medical/dental/vision, not things like retirement and workmens company claims...)
they average 673 employees last year. that means on average they paid each employee $181,259.45. Anyways you want to slice it, The tax payers still paid $181k per employee in pay and bennis, that does not inculding the other things like fuel, supplys, retirement, and etc.
now thats every thing from the cheif to the new guy averaged toegther...
no we are not over paying one bit :mad:

[Flyinbowtie]

Just for clarification....
Police survivors do NOT continue to get the paycheck of a officer/deputy killed in the line of duty. There is life insurance available, and most states supply the children of KIA officers reduced rate higher education. Cops generally pay big bucks for life insurance, and personal liability unmbrella policies are pricey, too, for some reason.
-OSHA doesn't always have the facts, Peace officers regulary exceed OSHA regulations for hours on duty without rest, and many other things Public Safety Employers create exemptions for. There are exemptions for just about everything when it comes to public safety.
-It is accurate, as stated by the Kern Co. Deputy, that the vast majority of Peace Officers outside of the major metro areas are not making 100k, or anywhere close to it. Overtime or a second job and a working spouse are almost required in some communities if homeownership is even a dream. Retirment and Bennie "packages ARE figured into wages, the reitirement contribution is split between the employee and employer. And, to anwer the next question, should the employee leave before retirement, he/she only gets his contribuiton, not the agencies. And, we pay taxes on both.
The retirement system many of us pay into is constantly re-evaluating the funds they must earn to meet the needs of those who retire. To do so, they must evaluate how long the average retiree will live after leaving employment.
That number, for the past 10 years, is based on a 5 year life expectancy.
So, if you start young enough and go out at 51 with 30 years of service, you can expect to live to around 56. Those are facts, not fiction.
Not even long enough to collect the social security most of us have paid over 80k into in that 30 years.
-I do my best to ignore the armchair quarterbacks and those who have some lifelong axe to grind against Law Enforcement and firefighters. The public has a right and responsibility to stay in touch with and require a level of professional service with it's servants. I did my best to listen to them.
Those who have served and continue to do so knew the risks/rewards of public service prior to signing up. We are used to armchair critics armed with a few supposed facts base dupon some b.s. seen on TV of an isolated incident of poor performance, which, by the way, are present in every activity humans engange in by which they make a living.
I have painters, contractors, truck drivers, doctors, lawyers, soldiers and other technical professionals in my family. We all bring something to the table. We all leave something out.
If I, as a citizen, felt like I was being poorly served by public safety officals, I'd be on their case. If I thought they were overpaid, I'd gather a group of like minded folks and do what I could to reduce that pay/benefit package to whatever I thoguht was "right".
Then, I'd demand that the administrators of those agencies recruit, test, train and hire the highest skilled folks they could get and still meet the integrity, education, and skills required to do the job, for that minimal amount I was willing to pay.
Then, I'd get what I was willing to pay for, just like in every other business.
And, if I demanded my elected officials hire the cheapest guy out there, I'd shut the hell up and accept what I asked for.
I find it ironic that the same people who want to demand inhuman perfection from Peace Officers are also the ones who consider them no more valuable than a minimum wage worker.
I'll shut up now...having actually done the damn job for a quarter century and never having made over 64k in a year while carrying a B.S. and three stripes on my sleeve, I' can't be nearly as in the know on the vast blue-suited conspiracy out there as all the experts who were still crapping in three-corner pants when I pinned the badge on.
Yes, I have an axe to grind, too. Been to too many cop funerals over the years, one of them was my brother-in-law. Another overpaid cop who took one for the team.
My sister isn't getting his check. Another fact.:rolleyes:

[YeLLowBoaT]

That number, for the past 10 years, is based on a 5 year life expectancy.
So, if you start young enough and go out at 51 with 30 years of service, you can expect to live to around 56. Those are facts, not fiction.
I would like to see some numbers on that...I have to call BS on that.
AS far as osha goes... almost every one ignores thier laws when they have a deadline or some other important issue...Hell I know I did last thursday when I worked over 27 hours strait to get something done.
edit...
I did some looking... I can't find any info from a realiable source about the average life expectancy for firemen or Law enforcement thats not atleast 20 years old. ( only thing I found was from 1981 that was from a source like a medical journal, CDC, NCIS, US cenuis or smilar agencys/orgs) I saw several current documents that uses the 1981 study( by the CDC/NCIS) even those numbers say your they averaged living til they are 68.8 years( the average life span was only 70.2 from that same study for males and the study istelf was based off the 70s censis data... so its not exactly current) Now i did find info to back up your claim of 5 years or less after retirement... it was from 1953...

[hoolign]

I would like to see some numbers on that...I have to call BS on that.
AS far as osha goes... almost every one ignores thier laws when they have a deadline or some other important issue...Hell I know I did last thursday when I worked over 27 hours strait to get something done.
I do that routinely, sometimes up for three days.. but we're paid by the day ..and a lil more than some of the wages posted. It don't matter how much ya make..just what ya do with it!

[YeLLowBoaT]

I do that routinely, sometimes up for three days.. but we're paid by the day ..and a lil more than some of the wages posted. It don't matter how much ya make..just what ya do with it!
I do stuff like that all the time as well...
It does matter how much some one makes... when your the one signing the check.

[Flyinbowtie]

Yellowboat, you may (and have demonstrated a willingness to do so when reality doesn't fit your paradigm.) call B.S. on anything you want, the reality of a given situation notwithstanding. Just this once, I will set that aside, and try to help you. Even though you have called BS on me.
If you were to ask those persons I've worked with, and my friends, family, and even arrestees, and the defense counsel I have sparred in federal court where millions of dollars and death sentences have been on the line, you would find that I never, ever, step into the witness box unprepared, or enter into an argument or discussion without knowing the facts. When one does so, and encounters an another person who does have said information it tends to make you look foolish, and I don't play that part. Ever
Now, for the record, I have PERSONALLY , on more than one instance over a period of five (5) years, sat in on contract and other negotitiations with my former employer, working on actuarials from my retirement system where all three parties, including the employer, the employees, and the system using a licensed auditor, (That was paid for by the employees) worked through the numbers, using both retiree death information and retiree retirement date information, to reach that conclusion. The conclusion was crtical for a number of reasons, some which will be obvious to you and some you would not understand. Those names and numbers are not available for public consumption, because the public didn't pay for them, but I will give you my word that they are accurate. Consider that they would have to be or the accountant/auditor, employer, and employees involved would have never accepted them. I would point you in the directon of a source you might be able to access for some, but to be honest with you I don't think you'd believe them anymore than you will me, as they are generally considered pro law enforcement.
The numbers are real, sir. Period.
Call B.S,, continue on your path, search the net, and continue to build your foundation of faulty facts. Believe what you choose to believe, and I know I can count on you to do so.

[4day!!]

My local Fire district does not disclose the exact pay scale of its employees( atleast not that I could find on thier very poorly designed sight...)
but I did find a copy of thier budget for last year...they spent 121,987,613 last year on salery and bennies last year( just pay and medical/dental/vision, not things like retirement and workmens company claims...)
they average 673 employees last year. that means on average they paid each employee $181,259.45. Anyways you want to slice it, The tax payers still paid $181k per employee in pay and bennis, that does not inculding the other things like fuel, supplys, retirement, and etc.
now thats every thing from the cheif to the new guy averaged toegther...
no we are not over paying one bit :mad:
Would you prefer the strangers that come into your home at 3am and scoop up your 2 year old child and run out the door with them to be the lowest bidders, so to speak. Or the strangers who are starting IV's, administering cardiac drugs and sticking tubes down your throat, would you also prefer them to be the lowest bidders. Get over it dude, we are not miilionaires and never will be. We make a comfortable living and that's all, nothing more, nothing less. Fock, you are one bitter jackoff!

[4day!!]

BTW, thanks for stayin cool YelloBoat. I know your sentiments, and your restraint is appreciated!!!
uuhh, you were saying?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[YeLLowBoaT]

Point me that way anyways... as long as they have a table or description of how they came to those figures( IE how they were collected and calculated, which is the norm for any study) I will be more then happy to take them at face value. If they are " this is what they are, because I say so" then yes, i will dismiss them.
how can I build a base of "facts" if you are unwilling to share sources... and I need to rely on sources like the CDC, osha, NCIS, New england journal of medicine and U.S. Bureau of the Census...they all have false facts right?

[YeLLowBoaT]

Would you prefer the strangers that come into your home at 3am and scoop up your 2 year old child and run out the door with them to be the lowest bidders, so to speak. Or the strangers who are starting IV's, administering cardiac drugs and sticking tubes down your throat, would you also prefer them to be the lowest bidders. Get over it dude, we are not miilionaires and never will be. We make a comfortable living and that's all, nothing more, nothing less. Fock, you are one bitter jackoff!
1st, I protect my family, If I deem something to be a threat I take care of it. Peroid.
Now when it comes to a "confrotable living" what do you deem confrotable?

[HatenWinter]

1st, I protect my family, If I deem something to be a threat I take care of it. Peroid.
Now when it comes to a "confrotable living" what do you deem confrotable?
Funny thing here is that Yellowboat "of all people" is making fun of someones spelling:sqeyes: . What's funnier is that he can't even mispell "comfortable" right! :rolleyes:

[4day!!]

1st, I protect my family, If I deem something to be a threat I take care of it. Peroid.
uuummm, ok. That's pretty selfish and naive thinking.What a good father/husband. Good luck reviving a loved one on your own, god forbid you should ever have to. And i mean that sincerely.You can do it all.
If none of you know who Yellowboat is, just look for the guy with this stamped on his forehead http://www.snapon.com/include/images/banner_2004/logo.gif
Cause he's a focking tool!

[4day!!]

Funny thing here is that Yellowboat "of all people" is making fun of someones spelling:sqeyes: . What's funnier is that he can't even mispell "comfortable" right! :rolleyes:
twice

[Flyinbowtie]

yellowboat,
I am going to do this once.
I researched the contract, and can't give you the numbers without violating HIPPA law.
A quick check of other resources documents the following,
"In the U.S. Police Officers have a life expectancy of 15 years less than the average American, and 50% die within 5 years of retirement of heart attack alone.." They go on to cite stress, weight, etc. They implore thier folks to execise and deal with the factors they can. Other sites point to suicide, divorce, stress,
Source: North Caroline Dept. of Justice.
Now, that isn't the actual source for the elements of the contract I tried to explain to you, but it is the results of an actual study done by a DOJ on the east coast. I think it is safe to say these numbers sorta lay it out.
There are about 30,000 other sites with similar info to choose from.
With that, I am done with this... and with you, sir.

[Southwest47]

To all you whiners living in your comfortable little world...I've been shot in the line of duty! How many of the LE critics on this board suggesting we get overpaid can claim that?! I don't get paid for what I do, I get paid for what I might have to do, like protecting you and your family from an armed tweaker breaking into your house!!
I almost retired at 29 years old because my shooting f-ed with my head so much! But, as a dedicated LEO (like most are), I couldn't just quit without giving it another try. With that said, I took this job knowing I would not get rich, knowing I would have people hate me just because of the uniform I wear, and knowing most, if not all non-LEO's just don't understand what we do on a day-to-day basis.
Most people think that all we do is issue traffic tickets! I dont have time to issue traffic tickets!! I am too busy trying to solve peoples problems in thirty minutes, that have taken years to create!!
The only thing that keeps me going is the occasional, and I stress "the occasional" person that thanks me for my service.
If you have a problem with LE or Fire, don't call them when your ass is on the line! :mad:

[SixDays]

You can come to my house and meet me:D ...I have yet to get close, and I am nearing top step Engineer pay with OT...I think they either embelish their pay, or they work a ton of OT!!! To say you don;t even know one is rediculous!!!
You really need to look at moving to another Department. I don't think I even know a Firefighter/EMT that doesn't clear a 100k a year... some more around the 125,000 mark.

[SixDays]

Just a few things I need to add here...
A couple people mention that LEOs and Firmen have "dangerous jobs" Well according to OSHA, per man hour you don't, infact your not even in the top 10. Nor are "on the job" related injurys in the top 10. unlike the other jobs that at the top of the list of "dangerous jobs" if you are killed "on the job" your spouse and/or kids still get paid.
As far as making $$$$ and not being home... its like that in most jobs. Almost every one I know that makes over 100k a year( other then public survice employees) spends alot of time away from thier family. most work atleast 12 hour days and many work 6 or 7 days a week. Other then 1 person ( who is working for daddy and making a 100k + :rolleyes: who does not know what work is...) to get to the point of making 100k+ a year at some point they had to spend a lot of time away from thier familys. Thats just the way it works.
I've spent alot of time working out of state over the years, its not like it is in CA... Even the older retired firemen and LEO from CA( atleast the ones I have meet, sold every thing and were glad to "get the fook out"... ) think whats going on in places in CA when it comes to these two professions is a joke.
I know you might not think oyur job is dangerous, according to OSHA, but it's not only worrying about falling through a roof or getting shot. Have you seen the drivers on the road? Sometimes just getting to the call safely is amazing. Talk to any engineer from Upland Fire, and see what he has to say about this "safe" job.
Besides that, injuries are huge. Shoulders, knees, ankles...all potential career enders.
If you think that my family gets paid if I die, then you are just believing your own BS. My family gets one year of Salary, no OT, and then they get the shaft. That's why I pay, yes, my money, for a large life INs. policy so when I die, my family doesn't get booted to the street, which is what the city WILL allow to happen!!!
You did a good job staying quiet...please don't start spouting random statemnets about what you think you know. If you want to play ball, show up with some documentation to your ideas, and not just your "humble" opinion!!!
RSQNE1...out!!!

[IT'SONLYMONEY]

My local Fire district does not disclose the exact pay scale of its employees( atleast not that I could find on thier very poorly designed sight...)
but I did find a copy of thier budget for last year...they spent 121,987,613 last year on salery and bennies last year( just pay and medical/dental/vision, not things like retirement and workmens company claims...)
they average 673 employees last year. that means on average they paid each employee $181,259.45. Anyways you want to slice it, The tax payers still paid $181k per employee in pay and bennis, that does not inculding the other things like fuel, supplys, retirement, and etc.
now thats every thing from the cheif to the new guy averaged toegther...
no we are not over paying one bit :mad:
it's posted on your county jobs website. all jobs are posted. it's not hard what the county and city say you are worth and what you make are two different things. maybe your county pays all the bennies for it's employees and that is great. but we pay the taxes too that pay for our own jobs so don't cry to us how much you think we cost you. the pay scales are still horrible for what we have to go thru and if everyone wants to argue the fact then why aren't you signing up to do what we do. it's a simple fact, everyone wants the job done that we do, but no one wants to pay or do the job that we do. i'm glad you think you know what we make. come join us and see

[Sotally Tober]

I saw the yellowboat war coming.

[BRSTQUEST]

Everyone needs to remember one thing yellowboat has incommon with the special olympics....
Even if he wins, he is still a retard

[RP2]

You can come to my house and meet me:D ...I have yet to get close, and I am nearing top step Engineer pay with OT...I think they either embelish their pay, or they work a ton of OT!!! To say you don;t even know one is rediculous!!!
How is it rediculous that I don't know one. I don't know many but the ones I do are at that level. Yes it does require a couple O.T. shifts a month.

[IT'SONLYMONEY]

Just for clarification....
Police survivors do NOT continue to get the paycheck of a officer/deputy killed in the line of duty. There is life insurance available, and most states supply the children of KIA officers reduced rate higher education. Cops generally pay big bucks for life insurance, and personal liability unmbrella policies are pricey, too, for some reason.
-OSHA doesn't always have the facts, Peace officers regulary exceed OSHA regulations for hours on duty without rest, and many other things Public Safety Employers create exemptions for. There are exemptions for just about everything when it comes to public safety.
-It is accurate, as stated by the Kern Co. Deputy, that the vast majority of Peace Officers outside of the major metro areas are not making 100k, or anywhere close to it. Overtime or a second job and a working spouse are almost required in some communities if homeownership is even a dream. Retirment and Bennie "packages ARE figured into wages, the reitirement contribution is split between the employee and employer. And, to anwer the next question, should the employee leave before retirement, he/she only gets his contribuiton, not the agencies. And, we pay taxes on both.
The retirement system many of us pay into is constantly re-evaluating the funds they must earn to meet the needs of those who retire. To do so, they must evaluate how long the average retiree will live after leaving employment.
That number, for the past 10 years, is based on a 5 year life expectancy.
So, if you start young enough and go out at 51 with 30 years of service, you can expect to live to around 56. Those are facts, not fiction.
Not even long enough to collect the social security most of us have paid over 80k into in that 30 years.
-I do my best to ignore the armchair quarterbacks and those who have some lifelong axe to grind against Law Enforcement and firefighters. The public has a right and responsibility to stay in touch with and require a level of professional service with it's servants. I did my best to listen to them.
Those who have served and continue to do so knew the risks/rewards of public service prior to signing up. We are used to armchair critics armed with a few supposed facts base dupon some b.s. seen on TV of an isolated incident of poor performance, which, by the way, are present in every activity humans engange in by which they make a living.
I have painters, contractors, truck drivers, doctors, lawyers, soldiers and other technical professionals in my family. We all bring something to the table. We all leave something out.
If I, as a citizen, felt like I was being poorly served by public safety officals, I'd be on their case. If I thought they were overpaid, I'd gather a group of like minded folks and do what I could to reduce that pay/benefit package to whatever I thoguht was "right".
Then, I'd demand that the administrators of those agencies recruit, test, train and hire the highest skilled folks they could get and still meet the integrity, education, and skills required to do the job, for that minimal amount I was willing to pay.
Then, I'd get what I was willing to pay for, just like in every other business.
And, if I demanded my elected officials hire the cheapest guy out there, I'd shut the hell up and accept what I asked for.
I find it ironic that the same people who want to demand inhuman perfection from Peace Officers are also the ones who consider them no more valuable than a minimum wage worker.
I'll shut up now...having actually done the damn job for a quarter century and never having made over 64k in a year while carrying a B.S. and three stripes on my sleeve, I' can't be nearly as in the know on the vast blue-suited conspiracy out there as all the experts who were still crapping in three-corner pants when I pinned the badge on.
Yes, I have an axe to grind, too. Been to too many cop funerals over the years, one of them was my brother-in-law. Another overpaid cop who took one for the team.
My sister isn't getting his check. Another fact.:rolleyes:
your are a hundred percent right. you know what my wife gets if i die. 40k and that's it. they will even try to take my retirement from her too. seen it done. i am educated myself an aa in pyschology, and ba in criminal justice with a minor in pyschology, and i have been in the business for over 8yrs and have yet to make over 64k as well with over time. people just won't get it until they are in it. i thought this was a boat forum anyways were we talk about how we like to spend our money and releave our stress not what people make or should make. for all the haters you can go ^&*&(*^((*&^
and for those that understand work hard, be safe, and come home every day.
have a great summer guys and galls
i'm done with this post my blood pressure cant take it

[phebus]

I was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 23 years, and was retired out due to a line of duty injury. I feel no need to justify the pay I made, as hopefully it was justified by the way I performed my job duties.

[MudPumper]

hows this for pay, after we pay our own insurance, retirement, and health benefits, a deputy is lucky to bring home without over time 850bucks every two weeks. yeah that's right 850bucks. you can't even rent a home for that. not to mention the job has become so undesireable, that we can't get people to "choose" like you say, this proffession. we have been forced to work mandatory over time for that last year in a half, which means in lamons terms, working our normal work week and then having to cover another one to two shifts a week away from our families and homes. maybe those of you who think we get paid enough should come do what we do for a day and i'll bet you will agree there is no money worth being a cop.
Bro, you really need to think about going to another department if those are the conditions you are working in.
Well said, there is no way leo or fireman are making 100k or more without putting in some serious time away from the family.
it's free and easy go to your county or city web page and look at the pay scale. then do the math. even a grade school child could tell you there is no way these people are making anything close to 100k a year unless they choose to work almost every day a week and neglect their families considerably. working all the time may work for some. but for most it costs them their families.
do your homework. there is not one city or state i know that pays 100k to their civil services such as fire and police. maybe after 25yrs in and you are topped out at a commanders, or even sheriff himself pay. but the ones you see on your streets are suffering in most places. location has a big part to do with pay as well.
Think again, there are plenty of cities paying over 100k to guys with as little as 5yrs on working 3-12's or 4-10's and only a little bit of OT. I work on average 13 days a month, maybe 1 or 2 OT shifts if I need some extra cash and my court OT ( min 4 hours pay and on traffic court I'm in court maybe 15 min on average) works out well with minimal time invested. Many small municipal departments in the LA and Orange County area pay very well compared to other departments. Look at Santa Monica/Beverly Hills/Santa Ana/Torrance/Glendale/Long Beach, just to name a few. Many of these departments have starting pay while in the Academy at 60K and above with good medical, retirement and life ins.
Yes many cops are underpaid for what they do but there are departments that pay pretty well.

[probablecause]

I love my job and would not trade it for anything except the winning lottery ticket. The only thing that sucks are the ball-less District Attorney's and the lame-dick judges who are more worried about their own jobs than doing the right thing.

[wedge44]

I know of a fireman/EMT that brings home over $130K a year with a little OT. I don't know this for sure but I think the retirement is close to full pay and bennies.
my neighbor made the papers ......over 220K with all the SOD he had...new boat, new truck, new T*Ts for the wife .....I don't think they deserve anymore than the rest of us Public Servants....just my .02 cent

[monkey rage frank]

Fire/Police do not get paid enough for what they do. Some people complain about them until they need them, and then they want them NOW!!!!!!!!! and to do whatever you ask them to do. I am neither Poice or Fire, I just appreciate them. THANKS GUYS AND GALS Frank

[SixDays]

How is it rediculous that I don't know one. I don't know many but the ones I do are at that level. Yes it does require a couple O.T. shifts a month.
I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood me...I should haves specified that I know you know some fireman. What is unrealistic is that you don't know ONE, that is a fireman(not a captain/chief) that doesn't make 100k. The reality is while most people think we rake in the dough, most are just getting by. Some just prefer to sacrifice their personal lives and families for the OT. Their choice...

[SixDays]

Fire/Police do not get paid enough for what they do. Some people complain about them until they need them, and then they want them NOW!!!!!!!!! and to do whatever you ask them to do. I am neither Poice or Fire, I just appreciate them. THANKS GUYS AND GALS Frank
No, Thank you!!! I have never had the need to be thanked for what we do, but it is appreciated. No dollar amount can be put on the look of appreciation from someone who's life was just saved.It's the best feeling in the world, and it is the best part of my job!
People are taking things way out of proportion!!!! I love my job, and I love helping people. I know there are always going to be critics and haters, Yellowboat, but I also know there are way more people who appreciate what we do, whether they are open about it or not. If you don't think we deserve what we have, and you think we should be paid less, then go to your city council and stand up for what you think, but please stop coming on here and perpetuating this anti-public safety propoganda. You know how many of us are on the board, and you are just kicking a hornet's nest. I guaruntee you, though, when you realy need us...your house is on fire with your family trapped, your kid just got hit by a car, or your smoke detector is going off at 3:00 AM, we'll be there, happy to help, and maybe you'll realize that we are to do our best to make the worst day of your life a little bit better;)
I don't see any more point in contributing to this thread. Just like all the previous ones, we stand on one side or the other, and I don't think it's gonna change anyone's opinion. Hopefully you can take what has been said and learn something, but I don't see it getting better. I'll be watching it, but I'm done posting!!!

[blackcloud75]

my neighbor made the papers ......over 220K with all the SOD he had...new boat, new truck, new T*Ts for the wife .....I don't think they deserve anymore than the rest of us Public Servants....just my .02 cent
Workin' that much OT, I can guarantee those weren't for just him(for sancho)....
Your neighbor works roughly 22(24 hour) shifts a month to make that kind of coin...

[blackcloud75]

Workin' that much OT, I can guarantee those weren't for just him(for sancho)....
Your neighbor works roughly 22(24 hour) shifts a month to make that kind of coin...
Forgot to mention................
I LOVE MY JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Won't comment any further..............

[beaverretriever]

Like I posted earlier. Most of the FF I know are making 100k plus. Once again, all City, County and State employee pay info is public record. BTW, if they are not making that, they are ALL lying on their credit applications. LOL.
These are friends, customers and acquaintances. I know for a fact the overtime they are putting in is no more than the average work week for a guy that likes his job. Maybe the pay scale here in NV is a little better than Cali or AZ... I don't know. Granted, most of the guys I know have been doing it for at least 5yrs plus so their pay reflects that.
I had an opportunity a few yrs ago to join the FF at one time. I didn't do it because of the time it would take to make what I felt was a salary I could live with.
All the guys I know that are cops or FF love it. I think it is great. I can see how it could be tough on home life though. I couldn't do it.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I know you might not think oyur job is dangerous, according to OSHA, but it's not only worrying about falling through a roof or getting shot. Have you seen the drivers on the road? Sometimes just getting to the call safely is amazing. Talk to any engineer from Upland Fire, and see what he has to say about this "safe" job.
Besides that, injuries are huge. Shoulders, knees, ankles...all potential career enders.
If you think that my family gets paid if I die, then you are just believing your own BS. My family gets one year of Salary, no OT, and then they get the shaft. That's why I pay, yes, my money, for a large life INs. policy so when I die, my family doesn't get booted to the street, which is what the city WILL allow to happen!!!
You did a good job staying quiet...please don't start spouting random statemnets about what you think you know. If you want to play ball, show up with some documentation to your ideas, and not just your "humble" opinion!!!
RSQNE1...out!!!
I was hit 7 x in 13 months... all of them not my fualt... I know all to well how how bad the roads are.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Funny thing here is that Yellowboat "of all people" is making fun of someones spelling:sqeyes: . What's funnier is that he can't even mispell "comfortable" right! :rolleyes:
I was not making fun of his spelling... AS a bad speller thats not something I would do.

[YeLLowBoaT]

yellowboat,
I am going to do this once.
I researched the contract, and can't give you the numbers without violating HIPPA law.
A quick check of other resources documents the following,
"In the U.S. Police Officers have a life expectancy of 15 years less than the average American, and 50% die within 5 years of retirement of heart attack alone.." They go on to cite stress, weight, etc. They implore thier folks to execise and deal with the factors they can. Other sites point to suicide, divorce, stress,
Source: North Caroline Dept. of Justice.
Now, that isn't the actual source for the elements of the contract I tried to explain to you, but it is the results of an actual study done by a DOJ on the east coast. I think it is safe to say these numbers sorta lay it out.
There are about 30,000 other sites with similar info to choose from.
With that, I am done with this... and with you, sir.
I looked at many of those "studies"/ documents... the one thing I found missing from all of them was numbers...They made statements,but no where did they say X ammount died with in Y years and Xn died with in Yn years.
Most did not even go about explaining how they came up with thier numbers.
you said you researched them... I know its not against the law to explain how you did your research. That is my beef with alot of the "numbers" that are thrown around. In this case i don't really care what the conculsions were, I'm more intrested in the procedures for collecting the data. As I am sure you know that if there is not set procedures and protcalls for collecting data, the data you collect is all but worthless.
If give that info I would beleave you... as it sits right now, your just a guy saying something on the internet...

[BigDoug]

I just read this whole thread in the last couple of hours..............whew !!
I personally think these two skills are thankless jobs !! i used to want to be a cop because i like people but went into the education field instead.
Im glad i took the route i did cause i would not want to deal with the youth of today or their parents for that matter, this is one reason i got out of teaching and coaching h/s athletics.
I have the utmost respect for the FF and LEO'S in today's society and i don't care if they made a million dollars a year, they are away from their family's and functions (graduations, football games etc etc.) that is priceless !!
The on the job injuries (Phebus) is a huge risk in both departments.
However, i know they are earning a well deserved salary when i know it's just a phone call away for safety of my family.
I too was hurt while teaching in Cali and Az. 4 surgeries later it was time to get out of this profession, my salary was cut in half from Cali to Az. but we still made it through life !!
We now detail boats for most of you guys here in Havasu and we work a half day cause of heat and so i can go boating during the week :D this is our choice !! the bottom line for me anyways is, we enjoy life with friends and our surroundings all the while making aroung 45-50 grand a year for part time hours, would i like to make more ? of course !! but im not driven by money.............im driven by making my customers happy and the friendships iv'e made over time.
I guess i got carried away with my story here :D my point was to enjoy what you do and make the most $$$$ while your here on this great planet we live on !!.............sacrificing family time and friendships is not all worth the $$$$ in the world and this is my new saying too, this is why we moved to Havasu to slow down !!
FF, policemen and military (my son) deserve the utmost respect and pay.I give thanks to those of you who have this type of job that can take your life in a moments notice, you guys are the best !! :) ..................Doug.

[Lunatic]

your are a hundred percent right. you know what my wife gets if i die. 40k and that's it. they will even try to take my retirement from her too. seen it done. i am educated myself an aa in pyschology, and ba in criminal justice with a minor in pyschology, and i have been in the business for over 8yrs and have yet to make over 64k as well with over time. people just won't get it until they are in it. i thought this was a boat forum anyways were we talk about how we like to spend our money and releave our stress not what people make or should make. for all the haters you can go ^&*&(*^((*&^
and for those that understand work hard, be safe, and come home every day.
have a great summer guys and galls
i'm done with this post my blood pressure cant take it
Just remember that our wives and families will get the 40k +or- after a year or so legal battle with workers comp. As I have previously stated, I am a second generation in law enforcement and my father died as a result of this job. My mom had to fight with workers comp and basically sue the county for the money she obtained. during the legal battle, she had to live of the life insurance (luckily my dad had some).

[IT'SONLYMONEY]

Bro, you really need to think about going to another department if those are the conditions you are working in.
Think again, there are plenty of cities paying over 100k to guys with as little as 5yrs on working 3-12's or 4-10's and only a little bit of OT. I work on average 13 days a month, maybe 1 or 2 OT shifts if I need some extra cash and my court OT ( min 4 hours pay and on traffic court I'm in court maybe 15 min on average) works out well with minimal time invested. Many small municipal departments in the LA and Orange County area pay very well compared to other departments. Look at Santa Monica/Beverly Hills/Santa Ana/Torrance/Glendale/Long Beach, just to name a few. Many of these departments have starting pay while in the Academy at 60K and above with good medical, retirement and life ins.
Yes many cops are underpaid for what they do but there are departments that pay pretty well.
the size of the county and cities do matter and i have friends in the la area and they do not start out at 100k plus. maybe like you said after being there for five or so years and some ot then it's more realistic.
i agree with you on finding some where else to work. if it was only so easy. been here 8yrs and have a lot of time vested in this community. i love kern county just hate the bleeding heart judges and civil service reps that vote themselves raises every year but don't care to even give us a cost of living raise.
compared to other counties our size, we are 25%under paid. we don't even make the bottom of the pay scale as a whole pict. like i said i'm talking about law enforcement not ff.
bottom line is for all that have an opinion, if you all think it is such a great job, then why aren't you signing up. everyone is going to have an opion, but until you people put yourselves into our shoes, you'll never understand. we do a job that is sightless, until one of us makes a mistake and then everyone tries to burn us down.
imates are only doing 20% of their time in kern and know this. we kick out 20 to 30 people a day that have only done 2months on a year sentence. hows that for numbers. we are so understaffed that it is pathetic. if society new what was really going on there would be mass panic. at least in kern.
if you are fortunate to live in a community that pays well and you have no complaints, then right on brother, congratts.
but realistically over the board most of us don't and are paying the price for what we do, protecting those of you who hate us.
this is beating a dead horse now so no hard feelings. you eithor agree or don't, i can't make you see my or our side until you come and join us. if the job was so great why are all departments having to recruite. you would think there would people lined up to protect and serve not knowing if they are going to live or die on a daily bassis. sounds like a great job
anyways guys have a great summer be safe out there and we'll see you on the water

[CBadDad]

Like I posted earlier. Most of the FF I know are making 100k plus. Once again, all City, County and State employee pay info is public record. BTW, if they are not making that, they are ALL lying on their credit applications. LOL.
These are friends, customers and acquaintances. I know for a fact the overtime they are putting in is no more than the average work week for a guy that likes his job. Maybe the pay scale here in NV is a little better than Cali or AZ... I don't know. Granted, most of the guys I know have been doing it for at least 5yrs plus so their pay reflects that.
I had an opportunity a few yrs ago to join the FF at one time. I didn't do it because of the time it would take to make what I felt was a salary I could live with.
All the guys I know that are cops or FF love it. I think it is great. I can see how it could be tough on home life though. I couldn't do it.
They must be lying to you. You should start checking pay stubs and W-2's.
As far as working O.T. First, it should be noted that most of us firefighters work an average of a 56 hour work week, before OT is factored in/ paid. Toss in one 24 hour shift a week, now you're getting up there in hours away from home, sleeping in a shitty ass twin bed with sleep interuptions (now you have to sleep on your time off so you can go back to work and think clearly). Sure it's possible to make six figures, but at what cost to your health and family?
I love my job and the guys I work with. Like I said before, I've never made over $100K/yr in 20 years. Not complaining, it's just a fact we don't make that much...