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View Full Version : Boat accident at Windsor on Saturday!!!



Not So Fast
04-15-2007, 02:04 PM
Anybody got the straight poop?? NewsPaper said a Cheetah (not bashing) came apart from a wave hitting it????? Rangers said another boat hit it and it sunk?? We got there just after it all happened (late again) so we didnt personally see any thing except the sheriffs boat backing out. It seemed like the cluster f--k was worse than normal as we counted 40-50 boats waiting for thier trailers which hearsay was a 1 hour wait. Of course they all waited right on top of the ramp so it was quite dicey trying to manuver thru all of the boats waiting and it was a little windy, not too bad though.
Anyway, just wondering what really happened? NSF

MrsGHT
04-15-2007, 02:43 PM
Hubby dropped me off on the north side of Windsor to get the trailor and I saw one of the guys whose knee appeared to be torn up pretty bad. Not sure of how many more were injured. Another boat had picked him up while he was out in the water after the accident occured. Paramedics were just coming down the ramp at that time. We had to put the boat on the trailor on the south side which was pretty crazy since we never use the south side. Probably waited 45 min. to an hour there.

GHT
04-15-2007, 03:14 PM
OG Shocker said it happened right behind him when he was runnin' Maybe he will post what he saw..:D

Mtg Pro
04-15-2007, 04:03 PM
After getting off the water about 2-2:30 when the wind started, I went back down just to watch the fun. I got there when LE and Fire showed up. I spent a few minutes talking to the reporter as she was taking her notes. Mohave County had two boats tied up at the dock for questioning. They closed the ramp for 15-30 minutes, sending everyone to the south ramp. I guess a couple of folks got their trailers hung up slowing that side down. When they finally re-opened, all heck broke loose.
I don't think that they really knew what happened. The chop didn't seem that bad to have a boat break up.

River918
04-15-2007, 04:13 PM
It seemed like the cluster f--k was worse than normal as we counted 40-50 boats waiting for thier trailers which hearsay was a 1 hour wait. Of course they all waited right on top of the ramp so it was quite dicey trying to manuver thru all of the boats waiting and it was a little windy, not too bad though.
Anyway, just wondering what really happened? NSF
Doesn't that just drive you crazy.... Some people can't drop off their vehicle driver and get the heak out of the way, they have to wait right in front of the ramp like they're the only boat on the water...

Not So Fast
04-15-2007, 04:19 PM
Doesn't that just drive you crazy.... Some people can't drop off their vehicle driver and get the heak out of the way, they have to wait right in front of the ramp like they're the only boat on the water...
Yep, it sure does make you wonder and especially since almost everyone on the boards says they DONT DO IT. Where do the idiots come from, I'm not kidding when I said between 40-50 boats were all waiting, it was pretty bad!! :( NSF

TCHB
04-15-2007, 04:39 PM
I was on the south side putting our boat on when all hell broke loose on the north side. I could not figure out how people could smash into each other at the ramp area. A little bump but not sinking a boat.
I agree there were some boats again staying real close to the ramp launch area clogging things up. These idiots think that everyone is looking at their cool boat!!!!!!!!

Mrs.Racer277
04-15-2007, 04:53 PM
I don't think the 2 boats hit???????
OG saw it said the boat just hit a wave wrong.....Sunk in seconds....Woody56 pulled one of the 2 victims out of the water, while I was on the phone with 911.
The 2 Cheetah's were running side by side.
It was a terrrible thing to come across....I truely hope they are OK.

Jafojunkie
04-15-2007, 05:05 PM
What did the boats look like, i have some friends that have a cheetah.

DILLIGAF
04-15-2007, 05:18 PM
And you Havasu peeps say Katherines is bad. Hope everybody is alright.

HocusPocus
04-15-2007, 05:32 PM
and everyone complains about site 6, we got off the water around 1:30 and we were the only ones there, no lines, no problems. sorry to hear about those that had problems at windsor, hope it all turns out ok.

Mrs.Racer277
04-15-2007, 05:51 PM
Yep, it sure does make you wonder and especially since almost everyone on the boards says they DONT DO IT. Where do the idiots come from, I'm not kidding when I said between 40-50 boats were all waiting, it was pretty bad!! :( NSF
It was a mess that is for sure :(

Jyruiz
04-15-2007, 05:57 PM
Damn, that sucks. Glad I got out when I did.

GHT
04-15-2007, 07:15 PM
and everyone complains about site 6, we got off the water around 1:30 and we were the only ones there, no lines, no problems. sorry to hear about those that had problems at windsor, hope it all turns out ok.
That's because you're the only person getting off the lake at 13:30 on a Saturday.:hammer2: :D :)

Roaddogg 4040
04-15-2007, 07:21 PM
Woody is a hero...:)
Steve

Hardly Satisfied
04-15-2007, 07:25 PM
I have the year pass for Windsor glad I spent the few extra dollars to use the Marina this weekend.

Focker
04-15-2007, 07:30 PM
:D Yep, it sure does make you wonder and especially since almost everyone on the boards says they DONT DO IT. Where do the idiots come from, I'm not kidding when I said between 40-50 boats were all waiting, it was pretty bad!! :( NSF
COME ON NSF
EVERYONE KNOWS THEY ARE COMING UP FROM SAN DIEGO:D

Redneck
04-15-2007, 08:29 PM
What did the boats look like, i have some friends that have a cheetah.
I heard it was the splash of Shadows boat but the splash was backwards the checkers were in the front. thats what OG told me

shadow
04-15-2007, 08:33 PM
I heard it was the splash of Shadows boat but the splash was backwards the checkers were in the front. thats what OG told me
First of all i hope everyone is ok! Second theres one splash down umptine to go.;)

phebus
04-15-2007, 08:39 PM
I heard it was the splash of Shadows boat but the splash was backwards the checkers were in the front. thats what OG told me
I think maybe he was just driving it backwards so it didn't look like a splash of Shadows so Darrel wouldn't kick his ass :D

shadow
04-15-2007, 08:41 PM
I think maybe he was just driving it backwards so it didn't look like a splash of Shadows so Darrel wouldn't kick his ass :D
lmao:D

dumbandyoung
04-15-2007, 08:55 PM
and everyone complains about site 6, we got off the water around 1:30 and we were the only ones there, no lines, no problems. sorry to hear about those that had problems at windsor, hope it all turns out ok.
WOW! thats strange becasue everyone knows that ramps are usaully packed at that time of day. Must have been your luck day;) :D

OGShocker
04-16-2007, 07:10 AM
The wreck was in the middle of the lake. The two boats were doing what friends do, running fast because they could not because they should. I was checking over my shoulder thinking they might want to run. I was really hoping they would catch up so I could post a thread titled, "I SMOKED A CHEETAH" On my third look back there were parts of the boat coming through a wall of water. We spun around and by the time we were pointed in their direction the boat was gone. As we got close I told Woody to get a vest on and to get ready. He jumped into the lake and swam to one of the guys and drug him to the back of a Fast Cat. Quite impressive, Woody! The two guys (I don't like the term victim) were taken by the first Fast Cat to North Windsor.
The one thing that pissed me off was their "friends" in the second Fast Cat named "Wet Kitty" did not wait for the LEO's to arrive. We went back to give the LHCPD a general area to mark for recovery of the boat (al a Later).
I can tell you, in my thirty years on the water, I have never seen a boat go down as fast as this one did. It was violent as hell! We were happy to see these guys survived.
OGS

Not So Fast
04-16-2007, 07:35 AM
The wreck was in the middle of the lake. The two boats were doing what friends do, running fast because they could not because they should. I was checking over my shoulder thinking they might want to run. I was really hoping they would catch up so I could post a thread titled, "I SMOKED A CHEETAH" On my third look back there were parts of the boat coming through a wall of water. We spun around and by the time we were pointed in their direction the boat was gone. As we got close I told Woody to get a vest on and to get ready. He jumped into the lake and swam to one of the guys and drug him to the back of a Fast Cat. Quite impressive, Woody! The two guys (I don't like the term victim) were taken by the first Fast Cat to North Windsor.
The one thing that pissed me off was their "friends" in the second Fast Cat named "Wet Kitty" did not wait for the LEO's to arrive. We went back to give the LHCPD a general area to mark for recovery of the boat (al a Later).
I can tell you, in my thirty years on the water, I have never seen a boat go down as fast as this one did. It was violent as hell! We were happy to see these guys survived.
OGS
Good thing you helped, probably saved the guys life!! Did they actually collide.
I see it all the time as I'm sure you all do, boats side by side hauling ass late in the day going from the sandbar to the channel, not smart. NSF

OGShocker
04-16-2007, 07:46 AM
Good thing you helped, probably saved the guys life!! Did they actually collide.
I see it all the time as I'm sure you all do, boats side by side hauling ass late in the day going from the sandbar to the channel, not smart. NSF
I do not think they touched. Big water, little brains are a bad mix.

phebus
04-16-2007, 07:49 AM
I do not think they touched. Big water, little brains are a bad mix.
That's why I avoid big water :D

OGShocker
04-16-2007, 07:53 AM
That's why I avoid big water :D
It was nice seeing you and Linda. Well, it was nice seeing Linda..:D

phebus
04-16-2007, 07:55 AM
It was nice seeing you and Linda. Well, it was nice seeing Linda..:D
That's why I stay married. It makes me "tolerable" :D

racecar.hotshoe
04-16-2007, 07:57 AM
The wreck was in the middle of the lake. The two boats were doing what friends do, running fast because they could not because they should. I was checking over my shoulder thinking they might want to run. I was really hoping they would catch up so I could post a thread titled, "I SMOKED A CHEETAH" On my third look back there were parts of the boat coming through a wall of water. We spun around and by the time we were pointed in their direction the boat was gone. As we got close I told Woody to get a vest on and to get ready. He jumped into the lake and swam to one of the guys and drug him to the back of a Fast Cat. Quite impressive, Woody! The two guys (I don't like the term victim) were taken by the first Fast Cat to North Windsor.
The one thing that pissed me off was their "friends" in the second Fast Cat named "Wet Kitty" did not wait for the LEO's to arrive. We went back to give the LHCPD a general area to mark for recovery of the boat (al a Later).
I can tell you, in my thirty years on the water, I have never seen a boat go down as fast as this one did. It was violent as hell! We were happy to see these guys survived.
OGS
Thank you for having the common sense to do what was right.***boat people are good people.Mark

WYRD
04-16-2007, 07:58 AM
Good job Mark glad you guys were there:)

2forcefull
04-16-2007, 08:11 AM
so did the boat hit the wave and come apart? how big was the boat???

Mrs.Racer277
04-16-2007, 08:12 AM
I do not think they touched. Big water, little brains are a bad mix.
I have seen a few wrecks at the boat races, I am still shocked at how fast that boat went down. :eek:

Mrs.Racer277
04-16-2007, 08:13 AM
Good thing you helped, probably saved the guys life!! Did they actually collide.
I see it all the time as I'm sure you all do, boats side by side hauling ass late in the day going from the sandbar to the channel, not smart. NSF
Did the paper say how the 2 guys were doing???

707dog
04-16-2007, 08:21 AM
hats off to ya OG and your buddy also...probably saves those dudes lifes!!

OGShocker
04-16-2007, 08:50 AM
Good job Mark glad you guys were there:)
I was just the driver, Woody was the "hero" in this dealio. Dia, made the 911 call which was a heroic act in and of itself. :D
911. Hello 911 what is your emergency?
Dia. A boat blew up
911. Where?
Dia. Lake Hava.....
911. Hold!
911. Where?
Dia. Off Winds......
911. Hold!
Dia to me.. W T F ! ! !
911. Thank you...... CLICK

That Guy
04-16-2007, 09:30 AM
Nice job Mark and hats off to Woody for jumping in to help and Dia for making the call...Wet Kitty...I have seen that boat before....familiar to anyone else? Just wondering?

Kachina26
04-16-2007, 09:40 AM
Nice job Mark and hats off to Woody for jumping in to help and Dia for making the call...Wet Kitty...I have seen that boat before....familiar to anyone else? Just wondering?
here??? (http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2503779&highlight=wet+kitty#post2503779)

Biglue
04-16-2007, 09:45 AM
here??? (http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2503779&highlight=wet+kitty#post2503779)
I believe they have an Advantage tho. Not a Cheetah. Hopefully it all turns out ok for the parties involved.
Hey OG, big Kudos to you and your friend for helping out.

460 jus getn it
04-16-2007, 09:51 AM
Hats off to og and his friend. Hope all parties involved are ok.

OGShocker
04-16-2007, 09:58 AM
here??? (http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2503779&highlight=wet+kitty#post2503779)
Thanks,
NOT IT!!! The "wet kitty" we saw was a green & white Fast Cat.

That Guy
04-16-2007, 12:52 PM
Thanks,
NOT IT!!! The "wet kitty" we saw was a green & white Fast Cat.
Wait, there is more than one Wet Kitty in Havasu....that clears up a lot of things.....:D

BrianB
04-16-2007, 02:04 PM
Quick thinking,we saved a dirtbag several years ago who had been thrown off a boat.He practically drowned us trying to get him into our boat.You don't think about how your putting everyone in jeopardy when your reacting to a situation.Just instinctively doing the right thing.

riverroyal
04-16-2007, 03:26 PM
seems like a exceptional amount of accidents already this year

dumbandyoung
04-16-2007, 03:28 PM
seems like a exceptional amount of accidents already this year
true that

riverroyal
04-16-2007, 03:34 PM
last week a pontoon over turned in the wind,just blew over with I heard 6 poeple on board.

Beer-30
04-16-2007, 03:47 PM
Here's one:
http://www.cheetahboats.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/29_cheetah.jpg

Pheelin Phroggy
04-16-2007, 03:48 PM
Glad everyone survived, and you guys were there to help out.... must of been one hell of a wave, we've known Havasu to get some big water, but big enough to break a boat apart... damn......

atomickitn
04-16-2007, 04:06 PM
Here's one:
http://www.cheetahboats.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/29_cheetah.jpg
og said it was a blue one , from what og told me i can only speculate that with the big water and it being only a 23/24 footer and a tunnel ,that they must have stuck the nose into a wave after landing wrong on the ass end of the boat and rocked it forward.....i am glad to hear that they survived the wreck....good job guys and woody for getting them to safety fast.

djunkie
04-16-2007, 04:10 PM
og said it was a blue one , from what og told me i can only speculate that with the big water and it being only a 23/24 footer and a tunnel ,that they must have stuck the nose into a wave after landing wrong on the ass end of the boat and rocked it forward.....i am glad to hear that they survived the wreck....good job guys and woody for getting them to safety fast.
I guess that Woody guy is good for something afterall. :D
Seriously though, good job OG, Woody, and Mrs. Racer.

98 Vector 21
04-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Well thats too bad....

RiverRatMike
04-16-2007, 04:14 PM
while on my lunch break at work, I saw a rescue boat out on the lake towing something big behind it and going extremely slow. It looked like a sunk boat but couldn't quite tell from my quarter mile distance.

Brian
04-16-2007, 04:57 PM
og said it was a blue one , from what og told me i can only speculate that with the big water and it being only a 23/24 footer and a tunnel ,that they must have stuck the nose into a wave after landing wrong on the ass end of the boat and rocked it forward.....i am glad to hear that they survived the wreck....good job guys and woody for getting them to safety fast.
I didn't see the reference to 23/24 tunnel in the posts so far, did that come from your conversation with OG? There was another 24 tunnel that came apart in seemingly similar circumstances a couple years ago. Not trying to pick on Cheetah at all, but I have friends & family that own these boats, some with a LOT of hp, and would like to know if there's something to be learned about these boats and be careful of.
Very glad nobody was seriously injured or killed...
Thx,
-Brian

Debbolas
04-16-2007, 05:21 PM
That is sad to hear, I'm glad our fellow Hot Boat members were able to assist.:D
So.........do we think so much water came into the boat (over the bow) that it sunk? I'm just trying to picture this:idea:

Not So Fast
04-16-2007, 05:41 PM
seems like a exceptional amount of accidents already this year
With what I see at the ramps this year its no wonder. There are an abundant supply of boaters that seem very unboatlike, I mean they just dont get it and they have nice boats. One bunch in particular has a very nice 30 Sleek and I saw them a while back almost turn the boat over because it was not centered on the trailer when they tried to pull it out, seriously, it was that far off!! Then this same bunch on Saturday put in and got all fired up ready to go (and of course the music was first and foremost to get going) and as they sat there I was wondering why they couldn't pull off. Then they pull the boat out into another slot and the driver walks around back and undoes the tie-downs, good to go now:confused: Not that I havent done some dumb things but it does seem like there are more and more "newbies" that dont have a clue as to what to do next. God help us!! NSF

Mrs.Racer277
04-16-2007, 06:09 PM
That is sad to hear, I'm glad our fellow Hot Boat members were able to assist.:D
So.........do we think so much water came into the boat (over the bow) that it sunk? I'm just trying to picture this:idea:
It came apart Deb :confused: :confused:

RaceFace
04-16-2007, 06:35 PM
With what I see at the ramps this year its no wonder. There are an abundant supply of boaters that seem very unboatlike, I mean they just dont get it and they have nice boats. One bunch in particular has a very nice 30 Sleek and I saw them a while back almost turn the boat over because it was not centered on the trailer when they tried to pull it out, seriously, it was that far off!! Then this same bunch on Saturday put in and got all fired up ready to go (and of course the music was first and foremost to get going) and as they sat there I was wondering why they couldn't pull off. Then they pull the boat out into another slot and the driver walks around back and undoes the tie-downs, good to go now:confused: Not that I havent done some dumb things but it does seem like there are more and more "newbies" that dont have a clue as to what to do next. God help us!! NSF
Just goes to show you.....you can finance a boat for many many years.....
There is no price on experience........

shueman
04-16-2007, 06:57 PM
With what I see at the ramps this year its no wonder. There are an abundant supply of boaters that seem very unboatlike, I mean they just dont get it and they have nice boats. One bunch in particular has a very nice 30 Sleek and I saw them a while back almost turn the boat over because it was not centered on the trailer when they tried to pull it out, seriously, it was that far off!! Then this same bunch on Saturday put in and got all fired up ready to go (and of course the music was first and foremost to get going) and as they sat there I was wondering why they couldn't pull off. Then they pull the boat out into another slot and the driver walks around back and undoes the tie-downs, good to go now:confused: Not that I havent done some dumb things but it does seem like there are more and more "newbies" that dont have a clue as to what to do next. God help us!! NSF
Being a responsible boater takes alot more intelligence than just a big bank account...:o

atomickitn
04-16-2007, 06:59 PM
I didn't see the reference to 23/24 tunnel in the posts so far, did that come from your conversation with OG? There was another 24 tunnel that came apart in seemingly similar circumstances a couple years ago. Not trying to pick on Cheetah at all, but I have friends & family that own these boats, some with a LOT of hp, and would like to know if there's something to be learned about these boats and be careful of.
Very glad nobody was seriously injured or killed...
Thx,
-Brian
yep og told me it was what he thought to be in that range of 23/25....and cheetahs 24,is a tunnle ...or mod v .....but again i remember the last cheetah that came apart and was posted but again i seem to remember someone saying that it was also driver error ......no matter what you stuff at 70+ into rough water it is going to come apart , heck even the big race boats come apart with all the high tech layup they have ......however this is just my opinion, and therefore dont mean s**T ......in conclusion if you are and IDIOT, and are not experianced in that type of water ,you are bound to have an accident, this time they were lucky and they didnt injure anybody else ...:)

Brian
04-16-2007, 07:21 PM
Understood, but what came first, the "stuff" or the "CRACK"? Hard to tell in these cases where there wasn't an observer watching the entire sequence of events. Would sure love to hear from the driver or passenger to get their perspective. I agree that you can crash and break any boat (they all have limits). However a strong boat can take a helluva shot to the bow and survive it. I would also contend that a structural failure at speed could look an awful lot like a stuff in the milliseconds following the break, i.e. water and fiberglass flying everywhere and the boat going down. Even if it was a stuff that started it, there is still something to be learned... Tunnels work great at speed up to a point where the air suspension gets used up... then things get ugly in a hurry and you don't have a big fat V up front to absorb the hit. I don't think you can drive them with quite the same abandon as you can some Vs, which may be more forgiving. I guess that gets back to your point of driver experience/skill being key. Either way, it's a good lesson to us all that boats have limits in rough water. :skull:
:cool:

atomickitn
04-16-2007, 07:53 PM
i have seen many v hulls take plenty of abuse and even seen them fly several feet out of the water and when on the beach the owner is wondering how come he is taking on water ...........again just because your boat can go 80/90/100+......does not mean that it is structurally capable of it for seasons on end,nor does it mean that you should be driving it like a race boat with out safety gear on, with out having first hand experience in a R A C E .... boat.in race conditions I.E with safety personnel on hand...:idea:

Marty Gras
04-16-2007, 08:35 PM
After all the "expert boat guys" have said their piece, I would like to wait for the actual report from the police. They seem to have a Scientific method for finding out what happened. I feel that we tend to forget the fact that "when these things occur" most people FREEZE! I want to extend my thanks to the guys/girls who did "what was needed at the time". YOU PEOPLE ARE THE REAL BOATERS!!! You give of your own self, while others look on! Knowing that YOU have put yourselves in danger for the wellbeing of others, shows your TRUE GRIT! (I got that from a John Wayne movie) It is sad that these people had a problem while on this lake. But the sadness ended when REAL BOATERS came to their aid! "Just another day on the lake, are YOU the hero today"? Peace to all involved!!!

SnakeCharmer
04-16-2007, 09:30 PM
I luv my boat!! :D It's Ugly, kinda slow, can run in a foot of water, pull 360's @ WOT, jump...anything! ;) and operate in ANY condition!
But I do like them THONG Boats!..... Big, powerfull, great sounding Eye candy haulers!! :D
I sure hate to hear of Any boat coming apart though! :(
Not Dial-up friendly!
www.whitewaterextreme.com/images/playingranite.wmv
Enjoyed playing on Havasu a few months! Might have to come back just to get some video! lol

TCHB
04-17-2007, 05:45 AM
1. If any boat gets stuffed into a way at 60MPH plus I feel it has more than a 50/50 chance to coming apart.
2. How many boat companies do actual research and development tests on the structure of these boats (airplane structure tests).
3. There are so many variables when this happens it will be difficult to know what point of the boat took the force.
Can you imaging stuffing your car into a wall at 40MPH let alone 60MPH. Some thing is going to break.
I think he stuffed it due to the size of the boat, and too many people riding up front.

Debbolas
04-17-2007, 05:50 AM
It came apart Deb :confused: :confused:
Ok, thanks, I guess I missed that part:confused:

OGShocker
04-17-2007, 05:55 AM
This was a closed bow 24' boat with two guys on it.
All the speculation of what happened is silly. Here are the facts.
1. Two boats were driving north on the lake.
2. One boat sank.
3. Two people were taken out of the water.
4. It looks like they will be OK.

shadow
04-17-2007, 06:01 AM
This was a closed bow 24' boat with two guys on it.
All the speculation of what happened is silly. Here are the facts.
1. Two boats were driving north on the lake.
2. One boat sank.
3. Two people were taken out of the water.
4. It looks like they will be OK.
Come on Mark,why do you have to give facts? Speculation is the much more entertaining.;)

phebus
04-17-2007, 06:04 AM
We have very hard water here in Havasu :)

OGShocker
04-17-2007, 06:06 AM
Come on Mark,why do you have to give facts? Speculation is the much more entertaining.;)
I speculated you were a pussy for not going drinking with me. Your Mrs. damn near killed me for that. I learned from my mistake. I'll stick to facts. :D :D :D
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r103/todd969/101_2113.jpg?t=1176650814

franky
04-17-2007, 06:10 AM
We have very hard water here in Havasu :)
Phebus go back to bed.

shadow
04-17-2007, 06:10 AM
I speculated you were a pussy for not going drinking with me. Your Mrs. damn near killed me for that. I learned from my mistake. I'll stick to facts. :D :D :D
you saw my name on my ice chest.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r103/todd969/101_2113.jpg?t=1176650814

OGShocker
04-17-2007, 06:11 AM
Lmao!!!!!:d :d :d

Todd969
04-17-2007, 06:27 AM
Here's one fact that "could " be a problem.
The Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery. He claimed there was oil on the surface ( BS ). So instead of the normal 2-3 hours to dive,bag and raise it same day. There was a whole production yesterday at Windsor including a Hazmat team, EPA guy, fire and news.....
So a typical $3-4K salvage just cost the boat owner and insurance well over $20k because of the Vessel Assist.
Now that the FED is involved EVERY sinking must be filed with the EPA before it can be raised.
What does this mean to us? Well it is very likely that we could see an increase in insurance rates simply because this Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery.

Havasu1986
04-17-2007, 06:30 AM
Here's one fact that "could " be a problem.
What does this mean to us? Well it is very likely that we could see an increase in insurance rates simply because this Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery.
Especially if you have 3 boats to pay insurance on.:D

scarabrick2
04-17-2007, 07:12 AM
Stuffing(if that is what happened) a boat at any speed is very scary. I stuffed many a boats in the navy. The boat I ran 38 foot, larry smith, kevlar, Scarab with 3 outboards would take a beating. Of course it was a race boat. i can count on two hands the number of times i took green water over the bow at 40-50 mph. I hope the peeps involved get well and get another boat soon. for the EPA well lets just say i don't care for them.

OGShocker
04-17-2007, 08:12 AM
Here's one fact that "could " be a problem.
The Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery. He claimed there was oil on the surface ( BS ). So instead of the normal 2-3 hours to dive,bag and raise it same day. There was a whole production yesterday at Windsor including a Hazmat team, EPA guy, fire and news.....
So a typical $3-4K salvage just cost the boat owner and insurance well over $20k because of the Vessel Assist.
Now that the FED is involved EVERY sinking must be filed with the EPA before it can be raised.
What does this mean to us? Well it is very likely that we could see an increase in insurance rates simply because this Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery.
Do you think "the man" is sticking it to him because they said there was alcohol involved?:idea:
Thank's for the update, Todd.

YeLLowBoaT
04-17-2007, 08:21 AM
Here's one fact that "could " be a problem.
The Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery. He claimed there was oil on the surface ( BS ). So instead of the normal 2-3 hours to dive,bag and raise it same day. There was a whole production yesterday at Windsor including a Hazmat team, EPA guy, fire and news.....
So a typical $3-4K salvage just cost the boat owner and insurance well over $20k because of the Vessel Assist.
Now that the FED is involved EVERY sinking must be filed with the EPA before it can be raised.
What does this mean to us? Well it is very likely that we could see an increase in insurance rates simply because this Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery.
My understand is if there is a spill they have to notify the proper authoritys by law. I know if you drive you car into the water your going to get dinging for the envormental clean up charge. same if you spill gas while refueling the boat.

2Driver
04-17-2007, 08:31 AM
......no matter what you stuff at 70+ into rough water it is going to come apart , heck even the big race boats come apart with all the high tech layup they have ......
Lavey owners might disagree. Day in a life of a race Lavey.....
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/506/thumbs/2789image16_small.jpg

Biglue
04-17-2007, 08:47 AM
We have very hard water here in Havasu :)
Jesus.......you kill me sometimes. :D

VESSEL ASSIST
04-17-2007, 09:18 AM
Here's one fact that "could " be a problem.
The Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery. He claimed there was oil on the surface ( BS ). So instead of the normal 2-3 hours to dive,bag and raise it same day. There was a whole production yesterday at Windsor including a Hazmat team, EPA guy, fire and news.....
So a typical $3-4K salvage just cost the boat owner and insurance well over $20k because of the Vessel Assist.
Now that the FED is involved EVERY sinking must be filed with the EPA before it can be raised.
What does this mean to us? Well it is very likely that we could see an increase in insurance rates simply because this Vessel Assist called the EPA to get the recovery.
I usually ***don't***comment on these things but...
This post placed by Todd969 kinda seems like a slam on the Vessel Assist crew. Not to mention most of the content in the post is incorrect. So I'll jump right in.
The facts and details of this incident have not been released just yet due to an ongoing investigation. Indications are one man on the vessel as of 1530 on 04/16/07 was still being treated in the hospital.
Lets just for fun take the Todd969 post apart one line at a time:
1- "Called", Where were you again when the phones started going off the hook??? What time and which day did did the command system start??? What are the circumstances encompassing this response???
2- "Claimed", Were you on scene??? Did you have a visual confirmation on the presence or lack thereof surface oil??? How much product were you able to measure??? What time did you arrive on scene??? (not the scene were the wind took the wreckage but the actual spill site) (BTW, the green marker bouy was about .5 miles off the vessel) If you need some help with this one photographs will tell the truth.
3- "Normal 2-3 Hours", Have you seen the wreckage??? Do you honestly think that was a standard run of the mill recovery??? The photographs will contradict your statements and once again provide true statements.
4- "Production", I guess you could use that word. I would use the word salvage operation. As far as Hazmat, fire and news...well I saw and spoke with none of those persons.
5- "So A Typical" You have stated what a typical salvage costs and your average is very wrong!!! You have stated the operation "Just Cost The Boat Owner And Insurance", as thought you have just completed and submitted the invoicing for this operation. Your speculative numbers are way off base!!!
6- "FED Is Involved", "EVERY Sinking" you say. Wrong again!!! By law all product spills and releases are required to be reported. However rarely will any of the concerned agencies become involved. Most of the time reports and statements are used for statistical information. So might it be possible there were undisclosed circumstances related to this incident???
7- "Mean To Us" It means nothing to you. Oh and by the way!!! Who did you say the insurance company was for the vessel??? Or better yet, you having been standing on the ramp during operations gathering all your information you will know the answer to this: (A) Was there any insurance on this particular vessel??????? (B) Are you willing to take financial responsibility for salvage operations and environmental containment????????
Which brings me to:
When the storm comes in and your caught out on the lake in angry four foot unforgiving swells with your wife and children on board being slammed against the rocky shore at windsor, or even in the middle of the lake, you will identify yourself as Todd969 and refuse and safe line because your not happy about a recovery Vessel Assist proformed.
If your lucky enough to not be caught out in the storm and your at home streching out in your lazy boy, we are still the bad guys. You need to realize we are just out doing our job. Which most people seem to appreciate.
And finally Mr. Todd969, If you happend to be one of the three PIRATES trying to shag that particular salvage...well that would explain the ill feelings in your post.
If your not one of the pirates, why then stop one of us out on the lake and we can go over some facts from the Incident Command Report and compare notes, otherwise lets keep the attacks to a minimum.
That's about it for now:D
Be safe and have a good time out there!!!
:D :D :D

Mrs.Racer277
04-17-2007, 09:28 AM
I usually ***don't***comment on these things but...
This post placed by Todd969 kinda seems like a slam on the Vessel Assist crew. Not to mention most of the content in the post is incorrect. So I'll jump right in.
The facts and details of this incident have not been released just yet due to an ongoing investigation. Indications are one man on the vessel as of 1530 on 04/16/07 was still being treated in the hospital.
Lets just for fun take the Todd969 post apart one line at a time:
1- "Called", Where were you again when the phones started going off the hook??? What time and which day did did the command system start??? What are the circumstances encompassing this response???
2- "Claimed", Were you on scene??? Did you have a visual confirmation on the presence or lack thereof surface oil??? How much product were you able to measure??? What time did you arrive on scene??? (not the scene were the wind took the wreckage but the actual spill site) (BTW, the green marker bouy was about .5 miles off the vessel) If you need some help with this one photographs will tell the truth.
3- "Normal 2-3 Hours", Have you seen the wreckage??? Do you honestly think that was a standard run of the mill recovery??? The photographs will contradict your statements and once again provide true statements.
4- "Production", I guess you could use that word. I would use the word salvage operation. As far as Hazmat, fire and news...well I saw and spoke with none of those persons.
5- "So A Typical" You have stated what a typical salvage costs and your average is very wrong!!! You have stated the operation "Just Cost The Boat Owner And Insurance", as thought you have just completed and submitted the invoicing for this operation. Your speculative numbers are way off base!!!
6- "FED Is Involved", "EVERY Sinking" you say. Wrong again!!! By law all product spills and releases are required to be reported. However rarely will any of the concerned agencies become involved. Most of the time reports and statements are used for statistical information. So might it be possible there were undisclosed circumstances related to this incident???
7- "Mean To Us" It means nothing to you. Oh and by the way!!! Who did you say the insurance company was for the vessel??? Or better yet, you having been standing on the ramp during operations gathering all your information you will know the answer to this: (A) Was there any insurance on this particular vessel??????? (B) Are you willing to take financial responsibility for salvage operations and environmental containment????????
Which brings me to:
When the storm comes in and your caught out on the lake in angry four foot unforgiving swells with your wife and children on board being slammed against the rocky shore at windsor, or even in the middle of the lake, you will identify yourself as Todd969 and refuse and safe line because your not happy about a recovery Vessel Assist proformed.
If your lucky enough to not be caught out in the storm and your at home streching out in your lazy boy, we are still the bad guys. You need to realize we are just out doing our job. Which most people seem to appreciate.
And finally Mr. Todd969, If you happend to be one of the three PIRATES trying to shag that particular salvage...well that would explain the ill feelings in your post.
If your not one of the pirates, why then stop one of us out on the lake and we can go over some facts from the Incident Command Report and compare notes, otherwise lets keep the attacks to a minimum.
That's about it for now:D
Be safe and have a good time out there!!!
:D :D :D
I have no doubt the marker was off becuz of the wind blowing.....But it did not seem that bad out there...
I do not think any of us that were on the scene stated we knew the facts of what happened...Our main concern is that the 2 on the boat were pulled out of the water and cared for ASAP.
I would hate to see this thread turn into a pissing match.
Thank you for the update on the 2 involved...And any further updates would be appreciated.

VESSEL ASSIST
04-17-2007, 09:37 AM
I have no doubt the marker was off becuz of the wind blowing.....But it did not seem that bad out there...
I do not think any of us that were on the scene stated we knew the facts of what happened...Our main concern is that the 2 on the boat were pulled out of the water and cared for ASAP.
I would hate to see this thread turn into a pissing match.
Thank you for the update on the 2 involved...And any further updates would be appreciated.
I agree a pissing match is not worth having;) .

Todd969
04-17-2007, 10:33 AM
I agree a pissing match is not worth having;) .
Sure isn't, but i'd be happy to come down and visit your office.
Note*** It was not a slam, simply an observation.

Todd969
04-17-2007, 10:38 AM
[QUOTE=VESSEL ASSIST;2506196]I usually ***don't***comment on these things but...
This post placed by Todd969 kinda seems like a slam on the Vessel Assist crew. Not to mention most of the content in the post is incorrect. So I'll jump right in.
2- "Claimed", Were you on scene??? Did you have a visual confirmation on the presence or lack thereof surface oil??? How much product were you able to measure??? What time did you arrive on scene??? (not the scene were the wind took the wreckage but the actual spill site) (BTW, the green marker bouy was about .5 miles off the vessel) If you need some help with this one photographs will tell the truth.
/QUOTE]
I'd love to see this Valdez spill:rolleyes:

mobldj
04-17-2007, 10:57 AM
hey debbola.you should be posting...........they said PIRATE....lol

OGShocker
04-17-2007, 12:36 PM
I would hate to see this thread turn into a pissing match.
You would only STARE AGAIN!
:D :D :D

Mrs.Racer277
04-17-2007, 01:02 PM
You would only STARE AGAIN!
:D :D :D
LMAO
I forgot about the pissing :rolleyes: :)

Big Warlock
04-17-2007, 01:17 PM
I want to say that the "stuffing" of a boat into the water has been discussed here prior. The point being made was that all boats are not made the same. I think most can concur with that.
That being said, I have had my share of "stuffings" not on purpose, just happened. LAst time being last summer from Catalina to Newport in some big water. Boat took it fine and I wasn't concerned with structural damage. The other boat with me made it as well with a few concerns. Another 38 Scarab sank.
I disagree with the statement that any boat will come apart at a cetain speed. All boats have limitations. More likely than not, you are paying for the build of your boat. Many boats do well over 75 mph. Much less can withstand the impact of head on water no matter how it comes about.
And that has been the essence of many arguments here describing the different kinds of boats and what you pay for them.
Last year there was a boat that sank of Black Meadows 9sp?) after being stolen (I think they were family members) and then "stuffing" the bow in rough water.
The main thing is to try and know your boat's limits. Live within those limits. I feel bad for people on boats where the driver / owner gets into a situation where his boat is at the limit.
I have no idea what happened here. Sounds like not too many others do as well. My comments are just to push my point regarding boat builds. Seems like I am always getting into trouble with this, but oh well!!! :D

Sherpa
04-17-2007, 01:31 PM
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr maties-! thar be pirates in these parts.!!!!!!!!!!!!
dive pirates-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
arrrrrrrrrrrr..
they're here to plunder your women, and rape your cooler.......! arrrrrrrrrr..
--lol..
--Sherpa
BTW, this thread really, really does suck without pics.

BoatPI
04-17-2007, 01:34 PM
V-A did bring up a good point. And not pointing any fingers in this incident, but we as boaters, and responsible adults need to pay attention to the weather more often.
Some peeps seem to think becasue they are not out at sea their boat can make it safely back to port on most any occassion. Not so as V-A will tell you time and time again. All of us have seen some fairly wicked winds this season, much more than normal. Quite a number of boats have sunk on Havasu this year. I would have to believe that if some of the owners paid just a little more attention to the many storms that pass through, their boats might still be afloat. this is not new science, just look around maybe every 30 minutes for the tell tale rising sand cloud and wind driven rain on the mountains.
And since we all have family and friends aboard, and all pay high insurance premiums, adding another boating task like keeping an eye out for oncoming storms, etc., would be a safe and wise thing to do.

Big Warlock
04-17-2007, 01:39 PM
V-A did bring up a good point. And not pointing any fingers in this incident, but we as boaters, and responsible adults need to pay attention to the weather more often.
Some peeps seem to think becasue they are not out at sea their boat can make it safely back to port on most any occassion. Not so as V-A will tell you time and time again. All of us have seen some fairly wicked winds this season, much more than normal. Quite a number of boats have sunk on Havasu this year. I would have to believe that if some of the owners paid just a little more attention to the many storms that pass through, their boats might still be afloat. this is not new science, just look around maybe every 30 minutes for the tell tale rising sand cloud and wind driven rain on the mountains.
And since we all have family and friends aboard, and all pay high insurance premiums, adding another boating task like keeping an eye out for oncoming storms, etc., would be a safe and wise thing to do.
Agreed! As a pilot, there are times when you have to say "no go." Same in a boat. When we go to Catalina, we always bring stuff to overnight if it comes to that. Same thing at the river. If we have to hole up someplace, we will do it!

Not So Fast
04-17-2007, 02:01 PM
Agreed! As a pilot, there are times when you have to say "no go." Same in a boat. When we go to Catalina, we always bring stuff to overnight if it comes to that. Same thing at the river. If we have to hole up someplace, we will do it!
Seems that not the scenario in Havasu, if the wind does come up the crowd at the ramp increases ten fold and it just makes the situation worse because everybody seem to want to "keep the bow up to avoid swamping" and that manuver makes things much worse from the rollers sent out. Myself, if we are caught out when the hawk blows hard, and we all have, then we head for the closest safety and hang there. We have sat in the channel quite a few times for hours instead of "Hauling ass" to the ramp because I knew what conditions awaited us. Stay where you are as safe as possible at least until the panic crowd as been and gone. JMO!!!:) NSF

Mrs.Racer277
04-17-2007, 02:08 PM
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr maties-! thar be pirates in these parts.!!!!!!!!!!!!
dive pirates-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
arrrrrrrrrrrr..
they're here to plunder your women, and rape your cooler.......! arrrrrrrrrr..
--lol..
--Sherpa
BTW, this thread really, really does suck without pics.
There was nothing to take pics of trust me.

ULTRA26 # 1
04-17-2007, 02:31 PM
Seems that not the scenario in Havasu, if the wind does come up the crowd at the ramp increases ten fold and it just makes the situation worse because everybody seem to want to "keep the bow up to avoid swamping" and that manuver makes things much worse from the rollers sent out. Myself, if we are caught out when the hawk blows hard, and we all have, then we head for the closest safety and hang there. We have sat in the channel quite a few times for hours instead of "Hauling ass" to the ramp because I knew what conditions awaited us. Stay where you are as safe as possible at least until the panic crowd as been and gone. JMO!!!:) NSF
Bobby,
I'll second that. Find some place safe and stay there. Summer before last I made the mistake of leaving the channel and headed up river trying to run from a storm and ended up right in the middle of it. So much hail that my friend and I had to cover our heads and faces with towels with little opening to try to see where I was driving. I was approaching the elbow and lightning was striking all around me. It was coming down so hard that I could barley see the bow of the boat or for that matter, where I was going. I honestly thought for a few moments that my time had come. There was a Warlock cat behind me and we had stopped just above the sandbar to help a real nice Elim cat. Had to loan the guy a tool which I left him with. When this storm was over there was two inches of water throughout my boat. My arms and back were full of welts from the hail and I felt lucky to be alive. Again, head for safety and not to the ramp. Stay safe until things calm down.
Just my .02
John M

mobldj
04-17-2007, 05:00 PM
in a storm dont think that lightning wont strike your ass,youll have the biggest fro around(imus).get to shore and chill...any shore.in the middle of the lake you are the lightening rod.

ULTRA26 # 1
04-17-2007, 05:49 PM
in a storm dont think that lightning wont strike your ass,youll have the biggest fro around(imus).get to shore and chill...any shore.in the middle of the lake you are the lightening rod.
Like I said, for a time I didn't think we were going to make it. Probabally, one of, if not the most, stupid things I have ever done. I told the story in hopes that it might cause someone/everyone not to make such a foolish mistake. Crazy thing is that I have been a boater a good portion of my life.
Sorry for jackin this thread
John M

Not So Fast
04-18-2007, 07:00 AM
Like I said, for a time I didn't think we were going to make it. Probabally, one of, if not the most, stupid things I have ever done. I told the story in hopes that it might cause someone/everyone not to make such a foolish mistake. Crazy thing is that I have been a boater a good portion of my life.
Sorry for jackin this thread
John M
Not jacking at all John, just good info. Glad you made it. lucky you were not in that little shallow Ultra of yours!!!!!!!!!! J/K love it. Bobby

Debbolas
04-18-2007, 07:05 AM
hey debbola.you should be posting...........they said PIRATE....lol
Debbolas;)
Is it talk like a pirate day yet?
When will we know the cause of the boat sinking?
Where is my coffee?

DILLIGAF
04-18-2007, 07:12 AM
Where is my coffee?
Over there next to the blueberry muffin :)

BajaMike
04-18-2007, 07:57 AM
Debbolas;)
When will we know the cause of the boat sinking?
Has anyone confirmed the manufacturer of the boat or the cause of the sinking?? Just wondering.......:confused:
:idea:

DILLIGAF
04-18-2007, 08:01 AM
Has anyone confirmed the manufacturer of the boat or the cause of the sinking?? Just wondering.......:confused:
:idea:
When are you getting your new boat?
Didn't they say it was a Cheeta and the cause seems to be a stuffing?

Jordy
04-18-2007, 08:19 AM
Has anyone confirmed the manufacturer of the boat or the cause of the sinking?? Just wondering.......:confused:
:idea:
From what I've read, which seems to be rather indisputable, the boat came apart, from stuffing the bow or otherwise, and once that happens, they tend to lose buoyancy and sink. ;)

Mrs.Racer277
04-18-2007, 09:00 AM
Has anyone confirmed the manufacturer of the boat or the cause of the sinking?? Just wondering.......:confused:
:idea:
It was a cheetah

98 Vector 21
04-19-2007, 02:55 PM
From what I've read, which seems to be rather indisputable, the boat came apart, from stuffing the bow or otherwise, and once that happens, they tend to lose buoyancy and sink. ;)
Even a Boston Whaler? :confused: