hull life?

[lilrick]

So when do you determine when the hull is all used up? My particular hull is fairly old and I don't want to haul ass if it has truly reached its expiration date.

[VESSEL ASSIST]

Here's a guess, and it's just one of many answers.
That would depend on who's drivin it and how it's being driven.

[78Eliminator]

I was just talking about this with another ***boat member. We were talking about hydro hulls actually, and the way they sponson walk causes them to twist the hull and create stress areas which weakens the hull and makes it lose rigidity. Ever notice that some hydro hulls sort of roll over a wake and you can watch each sponson sort or roll over on it's own. Then in a newer hydro hull (or one less used) when going over that same wake the boat will not contort at all..... Which introduces the theory that you can actually use up a hydro hull.
I also wonder just how much repair work a guy can do on a hull and be able to call it safe. I mean, if you rip a transom off a boat, if you absolutely had to, could you repair it and make it JUST as strong as a new boat just popped out of the mold? I would assume that it would be very weak at the point where the new glass meets where the transom would have separated.
Did you guys watch that show on Discovery about the Airbus airplanes that were having issues with the vertical stabilizers coming apart? They were 100% composite. The problem with painted composites is that they are extremely difficult to do a visual inspection on. The show had a demonstration where a guy hammered a small section of composite. It showed no signs of damage. But under some kind of sonic image you could see what looked like air bubbles. As you know, air bubbles are to composites as cracks are to metal. When I was building boats for a short while I remember going over freshly popped hulls and inspecting them for any air bubbles and injecting them with resin to displace the air.
Bottom line is, there is really no way to inspect a hull except a very crude visual inspection. You have no idea what is going on microscopically in the composite world. The military has techniques they employ on their composite airplanes for inspection, but it is not financially feasible in the public sector. In fact, commercial jets don't even do it. One of the tests that airline mechanics have been doing for years is to take a quarter in their hand and tap the airplane all over to see if it sounds funny. Still want to fly? I don't.

[adjones419]

I agree with what's been said...it all depends on what the hull has been used for, how it has been used, and especially what kind of horsepower has been thrown at it. I would say the lifespan for a hydro would be less than a flat. You see a lot of 1970-something flats still hitting the liquid 1/4 mile on the weekends, but I'd say most of the 8 second hydros are newer. Just talking from experience since my '76 Hondo runnerbottom has been raced for 30 years now and doesn't have a single stress crack, boat looks brand new. Our '83 Cole hydro has been racing Pro Eliminator for a few years now and is showing some wear...but that's all just visually inspecting the boats. :idea:
And I never liked the idea of sheetmetal and pop rivets flying 6 miles above the Earth's surface, but if I have to fly I do :(

[Racey]

I agree with everyone on this, All depends on what the boat is being used for and how it has been used/abused in the past. We have a few boats that we've built for customers that are very meticulous and 30+ years old and look as good as they day they rolled out of the shop after being built, and i'm not just talking cosmetically.

[78Eliminator]

Another note worthy mention is that a lot of hull damage can be attributed to the rides on the trailer, not being tied down in the back and bouncing down the highway........

[78Eliminator]

And I never liked the idea of sheetmetal and pop rivets flying 6 miles above the Earth's surface, but if I have to fly I do :(
Ignorance is bliss when it comes to flying. If you are any kind of mechanic, it is unnerving.

[dmontzsta]

That is a tricky question.
You can have the entire boat re-done and it could be like new.
How much do you want to spend? :) There comes a point where you have to look at the costs and determine if it is cheaper to buy another used hull or a new hull.

[78Eliminator]

The whole composite world is pretty interesting and changing on a daily basis, just try and keep up with Boeing & Airbus and all thier special spec's they use.
:D
I agree, but new is new. New is not proven. Take SouthWest Airlines. They fly the 737. To my knowledge that is it, no other models except other flavors of the 737 (please correct me if I am mistaken). They have the maintenance schedule nailed and the ins and outs of the airplanes they use down pat. Since 1971 they have not had one single crash. That is a whole lot of air time. Let Airbus "pilot" all the new technology, if I have to fly I will do it on an older and proven airplane/airline.

[78Eliminator]

Southwest does only fly 737's, they are very proven, however the new gen 737's have lots of composites, lite weight = better fuel stats, just like adding the winglets, better fuel consumption, they are composite.
The other thing about composites is how to dispose properly, pretty toxic if burned.
Do the 737s use composite V-stabilizers?

[ubin]

I saw this question before and not to steal his thunder but guru said total runs until failure then subtract one. Seems logical to me.

[lilrick]

I saw this question before and not to steal his thunder but guru said total runs until failure then subtract one. Seems logical to me.
:D

[dmontzsta]

Rick, just buy a 737 and be done with it. :)

[adjones419]

I trust Southwest and thier maintenance practices just fine
Me too, that's why I always fly SouthBest!

[wsuwrhr]

I love Southwest.
A cool "crosswind" youtube video in the sandbar.
I miss flying. It was much more fun before 9/11.
Brian

[adjones419]

I saw this question before and not to steal his thunder but guru said total runs until failure then subtract one. Seems logical to me.
Thanks Captain Obvious! :)

[Moneypitt]

Rick, your boat was used up before you bought it. I told you that. If I were you I would retire it today. 100 MPH in that boat is very iffy........So you really should call Mouzer today and off that thing into the never see water again world......And trying to keep up with the 80, the 681, the 690, the 929, the 52, and the 89 could really damage that old beat up hull. If I were you, I'd limit my speed to a max of 90. Faster than Nostalgia, but not quite into the hundreds....Just one not so good turn could result in a pile of fiberglass floaters...........Now, we'll see you at Long Beach, rookie........Just a few things to think about when you're screaming into turn one 6 wide........Ray

[SK48]

Who can answer a question reguarding the difference between tooling resin
for mold making and laminating resin. I know most Biesemeyer boats prior to
Ray Brown moving to Havasu were laid up with tooling resin. It was thought
to make a stiffer boat, but did not hold up as long. Ray related that this was not a good thing for the long run, but most were race boats. They did not
expect them to last more than a season or two.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I don't think you can generalize since there are so many factors. One manufacturer may be more competent than the next. Design and materials play a part, as well as use and abuse.

[lilrick]

Rick, your boat was used up before you bought it. I told you that. If I were you I would retire it today. 100 MPH in that boat is very iffy........So you really should call Mouzer today and off that thing into the never see water again world......And trying to keep up with the 80, the 681, the 690, the 929, the 52, and the 89 could really damage that old beat up hull. If I were you, I'd limit my speed to a max of 90. Faster than Nostalgia, but not quite into the hundreds....Just one not so good turn could result in a pile of fiberglass floaters...........Now, we'll see you at Long Beach, rookie........Just a few things to think about when you're screaming into turn one 6 wide........Ray
You're sounding like a very angry man. Ray, 100 mph in ANY boat is iffy. I am simply asking for obvious signs of wear or at a certain # of or type of repair do you start considering a new hull. Ray, if I had listened to you and not bought this boat, it would have been a mistake. How do you know this hull is beat up?
...and what do you mean "screaming into turn one 6 wide?"

[dmontzsta]

Rick, if you are serious about keeping the boat...here is what I would do.
First thing, strip the black coating off the floors, so you can see what has been done.
Second thing, strip all of the hardware out of it and take it to Mel's, Todd's, etc...and have them go over the floor, transom, bulkhead, side supports, etc...
Then, see what they tell you. :)
If you really want to go crazy, just have the entire floor re-done, and all over wood in the boat should be gone over/replaced as well.
Then strip the paint/gel off the outside and have a nice solid color sprayed on (gel or paint).
NOW!!! All of this work can cost anywhere from $7,000-$14,000.
You can get some pretty damn nice used hulls in the $7000-$14,000 range and just swap most of your rigging into one.
OR you can talk to Rankin and ask how much more one of those sweet new hulls would cost. It is a shame that Ron Bolton passed, he also produced a very good boat.

[lilrick]

Sounds good Don. I am going to pull it apart for inspection this week.

[dmontzsta]

Sounds good Don. I am going to pull it apart for inspection this week.
When do you plan on racing again?

[lilrick]

When do you plan on racing again?
LB

[dmontzsta]

LB
Well...you have alot of time then, so that is good.

[Moneypitt]

A sure red flag to hull integrity is the failure of rigging pieces that have been in a boat all it's life. When parts and pieces of the rigging crack and/or break it is a sign that things are moving around in a way they haven't moved around before. Strut braces, v drive plates and braces, motor plates and elbows, and cav plate hardware are all part of the "big picture". When the hull starts flexing in places it shouldn't, these METAL parts fail, and/or won't line up properly on a reinstall. This should be a red flag indicating it is time to find out WHY............MP

[dmontzsta]

A sure red flag to hull integrity is the failure of rigging pieces that have been in a boat all it's life. When parts and pieces of the rigging crack and/or break it is a sign that things are moving around in a way they haven't moved around before. Strut braces, v drive plates and braces, motor plates and elbows, and cav plate hardware are all part of the "big picture". When the hull starts flexing in places it shouldn't, these METAL parts fail, and/or won't line up properly on a reinstall. This should be a red flag indicating it is time to find out WHY............MP
Good point Ray. :)

[lilrick]

crappy hardware installs don't help parts either.

[snake321]

Hull breakdown is in the eyes of the owner.
There is always someone down the line that will give it another go.....

[GofastRacer]

crappy hardware installs don't help parts either.
That's for sure, did you fix that yet???..

[lilrick]

That's for sure, did you fix that yet???..
no. I've worked EVERy day since the last race!! I wanna fix it soon though. One of my queer buddies is gonna help me....We'll see.

[dmontzsta]

no. I've worked EVERy day since the last race!! I wanna fix it soon though. One of my queer buddies is gonna help me....We'll see.
You know you guys wont get shit done! You will end up having sex on the deck of the boat. :devil:

[lilrick]

You know you guys wont get shit done! You will end up having sex on the deck of the boat. :devil:
jealous MOFO!!

[GofastRacer]

no. I've worked EVERy day since the last race!! I wanna fix it soon though. One of my queer buddies is gonna help me....We'll see.
As long as it gets done before you take it out again!..

[MAXIMUS]

no. I've worked EVERy day since the last race!! I wanna fix it soon though. One of my queer buddies is gonna help me....We'll see.
:notam: :notam: :notam:

[dossangers]

Inspections Inspections! after every run thats all you can do!

[BILLY.B]

I'm always suspicious of race boats that have there complete floors painted. Usually means they are trying to cover up some type of damage. Before you start sanding the inside i'd do the "Tap" test all over the floor of the boat especially around the strut and v-drive area. If you here a solid sound your ok, if it sounds like your patting a water melon you've got a problem. Another way of testing the strut area for delamination is to put a floor jack under it and "SLOWLY" lift the boat up by the strut and see if the bottom moves also. If so you have a problem. Grab the stringers and see if you can move them side to side. I've had boats come into the shop that were so bad I could actually do this. Look for cracks along the stringers and bulk heads. Somtimes they are hard to see, so if you have the inside all apart wash the inside out with water along the stringer area and watch for oil to come out. Water will make this happen even to the smallest crack. Your just making sure that it doesn't go all the way to the balsa where it could cause a future problem. Good luck. Remember there is always another race, so take your time and do the job right, it will save you big $$$$$ or your body in the end!!!!!.

[lilrick]

I'm always suspicious of race boats that have there complete floors painted. Usually means they are trying to cover up some type of damage. Before you start sanding the inside i'd do the "Tap" test all over the floor of the boat especially around the strut and v-drive area. If you here a solid sound your ok, if it sounds like your patting a water melon you've got a problem. Another way of testing the strut area for delamination is to put a floor jack under it and "SLOWLY" lift the boat up by the strut and see if the bottom moves also. If so you have a problem. Grab the stringers and see if you can move them side to side. I've had boats come into the shop that were so bad I could actually do this. Look for cracks along the stringers and bulk heads. Somtimes they are hard to see, so if you have the inside all apart wash the inside out with water along the stringer area and watch for oil to come out. Water will make this happen even to the smallest crack. Your just making sure that it doesn't go all the way to the balsa where it could cause a future problem. Good luck. Remember there is always another race, so take your time and do the job right, it will save you big $$$$$ or your body in the end!!!!!.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! Finally a REAL answer!!

[VDRIVERACING]

....once the floor jack completely penetrates the floor, remove the strut from the garage ceiling using a Langley #2 ratched lag puller. Next, dial 999 and, with one foot in a bucket of red paint, collect 23 core samples from the deck using a 4" hole saw. If you can see light on the other side, you can be sure your garage has an adeqaute lighting system.
Hope this helps...

[gnRacer98]

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Finally a REAL answer!!
We figured your queer friends already told you about the Ball Peeeen test!

[Jetboatguru]

Hey Slick Rick,
Broccheuser still has the PS681 boat for sale. It is a bad ass piece! I drove it and didn't crash it.

[MAXIMUS]

....once the floor jack completely penetrates the floor, remove the strut from the garage ceiling using a Langley #2 ratched lag puller. Next, dial 999 and, with one foot in a bucket of red paint, collect 23 core samples from the deck using a 4" hole saw. If you can see light on the other side, you can be sure your garage has an adeqaute lighting system.
Hope this helps...
Now that is funny... You should put in a legal note that this has not been proven to work & is only the authors speculation... :rolleyes:

[MAXIMUS]

We figured your queer friends already told you about the Ball Peeeen test!
All his queer friends misplaced their ball peen hammers.... :eek: