R&D Marine ?

[76miller]

Hey, just wondering about this shop. I usually go to MPD, but they are really backed up and Im thinking of giving my business to this shop. Any of you guys have pumps, shoe/ride, nozzle work,setbacks done from Harold over at R&D ? He sounds like he knows his stuff but Im just curious if there is any unhappy customers on the boards, or warnings.(pricey,took to long,wrong set up, etc ?) Any positive or negative comments would help. Hopefully positive !

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

He is in this months ***boat. There is a ultra in there that has his work in it. Looks like the work is good;) Stop by his shop and take a look around. See exactly what they are doing. That should tell you alot;)
What type of work are you planning on doing?

[hang tight]

Hey, just wondering about this shop. I usually go to MPD, but they are really backed up and Im thinking of giving my business to this shop. Any of you guys have pumps, shoe/ride, nozzle work,setbacks done from Harold over at R&D ? He sounds like he knows his stuff but Im just curious if there is any unhappy customers on the boards, or warnings.(pricey,took to long,wrong set up, etc ?) Any positive or negative comments would help. Hopefully positive !
A friend had his bottom done by R&D. love's it now.

[Smitty19]

without starting to much shiat again I'll just say spend your money once and wait for MPD or go to anyone but R&D thats all I"LL say

[76miller]

Smitty, not to get you too fired up but, could you explain ?

[MikeF]

I'd wait.:D
Be patient.:)

[JR131]

hey smitty this is jr you need to be careful with the way you promote things
you know as well as i do that the problem with your mess was with you
so i think you need to keep your comments to yourself
last post about it

[JR131]

76 miller if you would like to stop by or call we will be at the shop at about
10:30 the number is 714 993-2664
thanks
jr

[BUSBY]

Harold and Harold Jr. have been doing jet boats for a loooooooooooooooong time. I think they would do a fine job for you.
Different people are good at different things though, just like anything in life. People become specialized in their trade. As 396 said, I would go by their shop and see if it's for you.
Another thing is if you "click" with the shop ... having a great relationship with the guys working on your boat will make spending your money with them easier, if you're uncomfortable ... it'll never work.
Stop by and talk to Harold or Jr ... they're good people ...
My .02 for what it's worth.
Brian

[JR131]

thanks brian
see you at the race
jr

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Harold and Harold Jr. have been doing jet boats for a loooooooooooooooong time. I think they would do a fine job for you.
Different people are good at different things though, just like anything in life. People become specialized in their trade. As 396 said, I would go by their shop and see if it's for you.
Another thing is if you "click" with the shop ... having a great relationship with the guys working on your boat will make spending your money with them easier, if you're uncomfortable ... it'll never work.
Stop by and talk to Harold or Jr ... they're good people ...
My .02 for what it's worth.
Brian
I would listen to Brian. He knows alot of peeps and he has always done me right! I will never bash a shop for not doing something right. I will always give them a shot for doing it over. I have seen Harolds boat at the races and it lokks nice. I honestly can say that they are top notch because I dont know. But like I previously said, I would stop by and look at the work they do. Have them show you around. Im sure they can describe what they are doing. That should be your determining factor right there;) Good luck and happy boating :)
_SPitter

[Taylorman]

I'd say that someone who cuts a boat in half and makes it wider to accomidate a dual jet drive knows a little about jet boats. But hey, i live in Louisiana.

[AV137]

Harold and Jr. did my 19 daytona complete, motor, pump, rigging, bottom,electrical, steering, trailer, you name it they did it.
I absolutely love the boat and is everything and more, way more than I ever
imagined. I invite you to look at everything they have done on my boat anytime.just call me 714-582-1956.it is at my shop.

[76miller]

Thanks everyone for your input, sorry if I caused any uneeded drama.

[tiki god]

they did my entire motor and pump. i cant say a bad thing about those guy's. the boat runs awesome! thanks harold & jr. money well spent!

[pw_Tony]

they did my entire motor and pump. i cant say a bad thing about those guy's. the boat runs awesome! thanks harold & jr. money well spent!
Yea that sounds real...

[tiki god]

91mph out of a 20' eclipse- i call that real!

[superdave013]

back whe I was NJBA racing (early - mid 90's) Harold was the guy to beat in blown gas jet. He held the record also (140 something). So does anyone know how long his BGJ records stood? Did anyone ever break it? Asking because I don't know.

[JR131]

the record was 147.60 and backed up with a 149.89
with an et of 7.32
both were retired

[superdave013]

the record was 147.60 and backed up with a 149.89
with an et of 7.32
both were retired
you guys must not know what you're doing then. lol
7.32 is sick fast in an open cockpit boat!! Anyone know of any other jetboat that quick running today?? Hicks might be close but is anyone else even in the ball park??
If you can't beat 'em just retire 'em! I have never heard of anyone other the NJBA that does that. Could you imagin if the SCTA would retire records??

[old rigger]

Yeah that's fast, but lets not forget back in the early 80's Dave Gionette ripped off a 158 + in an open cockpit jet boat when he was driving Rated X for Bill Henderson. And before Billy Jr. blew the boat over, they made more than one pass at over 170. :)
76Miller,
you can't go wrong with RD marine. Met Harold back in 1980 when I went to work for Roger and Harold was doing some of his pump work, he did my dads berk too. Back then Harold was dragging Harold jr. around with him on weekends, I think he must have been about 7 or 8? Been a long time. lol

[JR131]

yea that was some great competitive racing back then qualifying into a
full 16 boat fields from sj all the way to bfj good ol times
jr

[JR131]

WWWOOOOOOOOOOOO SCARRY
you must be the baddest keyboard finatic that i ever met
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
jr

[superdave013]

Yeah that's fast, but lets not forget back in the early 80's Dave Gionette ripped off a 158 + in an open cockpit jet boat when he was driving Rated X for Bill Henderson. And before Billy Jr. blew the boat over, they made more than one pass at over 170. :)
76Miller,
you can't go wrong with RD marine. Met Harold back in 1980 when I went to work for Roger and Harold was doing some of his pump work, he did my dads berk too. Back then Harold was dragging Harold jr. around with him on weekends, I think he must have been about 7 or 8? Been a long time. lol
yeah but that was top fuel right? Still bad ass non the less. These guys were doing it on gas. Has anyone gone faster or quicker on gas in a jet boat? I'm not stiring the pot (for once), just asking the question.

[old rigger]

yeah but that was top fuel right? Still bad ass non the less. These guys were doing it on gas. Has anyone gone faster or quicker on gas in a jet boat? I'm not stiring the pot (for once), just asking the question.
Yep, you're right, fuel. I was just talking about the open cockpit part of it.
Regardless, I'd bet the gas engines today make much more HP that a fuel engine did 26 years ago. Especially when you consider that henderson ran junkyard cast iron heads on that hemi. :)

[JR131]

all the classes and brackets have been a kick in the a$$ i've met ALOT of
great and competitive people so for all of this we will keep pushing forward
as the
dual jet pioneers
jr

[Smitty19]

JMHO,
Harold is the nicest guy that you'd ever meet BUThe's also the worst excuse for a businessman that I'd never do business with again! He obviously knows how to rig HIS boat, know's how to build HIS pump, and how to make HIS boat go fast. His imagination is unlimited as he can come up with the biggest lines of bullsh*t as to why your boat isn't finished when promised.
76miller, just be patient and wait for MPD. You'll be grateful you did.
Jr131, I'll give you some good advice that other boatshops that do business in a unconvential way have had to find out the hard way. Stay off of the forums, do not attempt to post rebuttals, do not get into pissing matches or even try to defend yourself. Just drop it and hope it will be forgotten as any attempt at a reply will bring you unwanted attention from long before you became involved. There are too many people that are not satisfied with R&D and for all of these incidents to be posted on this website would not be a good thing.
It's always been my policy to not bash businesses and bring up 'dirty laundry' on the net. If jr had not posted, I would not be writing this.
Rio
I couldn't agree more... the purpose of this form isn't to bang on someones business for no reason, it's toget a business to realize you have to be accountable for your actions, this network of people is a small group and you screw one one of us and it'll get around faster than you want to know, and when you drop 5-6 grand with someone and you get hosed your gona here about it, and JR you can Keep thinking my deal was on me if it helps you sleep at night and I guess you didn't get the PM I sent you to vent off line and how I detailed a dozen Items/reasons I wasn't driving 6 hours back to get in to a pissen contest on who fault it was so it carries on. no one's saying hearld never had any satisfied customers it's the ones you don't take care of or you pull the "can't see it from my house"
additude or "good enough" I work for myself as well I try to every job like it was my own house. last post, maybe

[hang tight]

I couldn't agree more... the purpose of this form isn't to bang on someones business for no reason, it's toget a business to realize you have to be accountable for your actions, this network of people is a small group and you screw one one of us and it'll get around faster than you want to know, and when you drop 5-6 grand with someone and you get hosed your gona here about it, and JR you can Keep thinking my deal was on me if it helps you sleep at night and I guess you didn't get the PM I sent you to vent off line and how I detailed a dozen Items/reasons I wasn't driving 6 hours back to get in to a pissen contest on who fault it was so it carries on. no one's saying hearld never had any satisfied customers it's the ones you don't take care of or you pull the "can't see it from my house"
additude or "good enough" I work for myself as well I try to every job like it was my own house. last post, maybe
Well it sounds to me like you hosed yourself. You can't bash someone that you didn't even give a chance to fix what was wrong. And there is always two sides to a story. would love to hear the other.

[jdf]

and when you drop 5-6 grand with someone and you get hosed your gona here about it
wait till you drop 30 grand this was not with r&d

[lilrick]

Hangtight, how many times do you have to return to a business that stuffed it up your *ss the first time around to try and get satisfaction? 2x's ? 4x's ? Are you supposed to have to beg someone to do the right thing? How many times? When dealing with some lowlifes that do business with a grin and a smile and do not put a lot in writing or hands out blank (no business name embossed) receipts->"that's all I have"- what then. How much time do you give them? A month ? How about 4 months?
Don't know how long you've been around but locally this has been known for atleast 15 years or so. Back when, we didn't have the internet to trade information so a lot of these scammers slipped thru the cracks.
Every area has it's share of boatshops that operate this way and it's up to you to do the homework and research to find them out and stay away. Many of these so called racers have shops that just take in the business to support their "racing habits" and could care less about their customers.
As I stated before, IF jr hadn't started to run at the mouth ( am I making myself clear enough?) I wouldn't have even responded. If he continues then I guess we'll have to ask all of the other disgruntled customers to come forward and rehash their horror stories. Believe me when I say that I document everything, make notes of the exact conversation and what was promised. and I just might have pics of how my boat was delivered to a shop and how it was returned.
It's called covering your *ss and protecting yourself.
Rio
:D

[superdave013]

Yep, you're right, fuel. I was just talking about the open cockpit part of it.
Regardless, I'd bet the gas engines today make much more HP that a fuel engine did 26 years ago. Especially when you consider that henderson ran junkyard cast iron heads on that hemi. :)
the R&D guys had to have set that 10 years ago so there would only be a 16 year difference. I would bet they were making less power on gas then those guys were on fuel back in the glory days. Nitro is pretty wicked. You have big balls to just fire up a nitro engine.

[superdave013]

I wouldn't have even responded. If he continues then I guess we'll have to ask all of the other disgruntled customers to come forward and rehash their horror stories. Believe me when I say that I document everything, make notes of the exact conversation and what was promised. and I just might have pics of how my boat was delivered to a shop and how it was returned.
It's called covering your *ss and protecting yourself.
Rio
sounds like a slam dunk court case then. must be more to it if you just let them slide instead of taking them to court. You know the saying, 3 sides to every story, yours, his and the truth (at least what the judge rules)
Just so everyone knows. I've never done any biz with those guys, don't know them at all. But I was always impressed with how their boat ran.
If you are just looking to have a pump rebuilt I bet Todd at Harman could get it done before the weekend. How wizzy are you trying to get with that miller jet??

[old rigger]

the R&D guys had to have set that 10 years ago so there would only be a 16 year difference. I would bet they were making less power on gas then those guys were on fuel back in the glory days. Nitro is pretty wicked. You have big balls to just fire up a nitro engine.
I'm talking about the difference from today, what the racers have available to them right now running gas compared to what they did 26 years ago using fuel. I would think that with the technology used today in head design, cam profiles and so on a blown gas engine pumps out more than the old fuel motor.
Maybe, I dunno. :)

[JR131]

I think the difference between now and then as far as hp differences is the
computer and fuel management systems,but you are also correct old rigger
they have better components available now verses then
jr

[hang tight]

Well Riodog, I think 1x to fix a problem is fair. Not giving him any seems unfair. I did a little reach around the net as you said , I've found a lot of positive thing about R&D. If you would of taken your case to court, even a judge would of told you to give the business a chance to fix it. You say he doesn't care but never gave him the chance to. If you don't like him that's ok. but on here you are coming across as a bully threaten people, attacking Jr just because he replied. As far as the receipt you did get one weather it's hand writing on a note pad or a fancy printed one, it legal."cheaters" don't use them. You say he's a bad businessman , but you never gave him a chance. And as you can see from other threads even large company's have problems.
You say he's a nice guy and in the same breath say he cheated you. Did you ever think the person you brought it to "to fix it" just told you what you wanted to hear so you spend money there ? It does happen. I'm not trying to be a mediator just saying how I see it. Let people make their own determinations.

[JR131]

oooohhhhhh my arent we the grumpy ba$tard

[thatguy]

Well, you guys are nicer than me. Never did business with any of the places in this thread. But I do know this. Screw me once, your fault. Screw me twice, my fault. I strongly disagree with "giving them a chance to fix it".
If a place of business advertises that they do this or that, then they are expected to do it right the first time. That is what the consumer pays for.
If they f*ck it up the first time then they are not the professionals that they say they are. Who knows how it will escalate (deteriorate) from there?
When you pay for a service, then that's what you should get. Not multiple visits until they get it right. In my opinion that is enabling unprofessional people (either unethical or inexperienced) to stay in business and fleece more people.
Or am I just an *sshole? :) :) Tommy

[riverbound]

I like where this thread is going :D
Popcorn anyone??

[superdave013]

Well, you guys are nicer than me. Never did business with any of the places in this thread. But I do know this. Screw me once, your fault. Screw me twice, my fault. I strongly disagree with "giving them a chance to fix it".
If a place of business advertises that they do this or that, then they are expected to do it right the first time. That is what the consumer pays for.
If they f*ck it up the first time then they are not the professionals that they say they are. Who knows how it will escalate (deteriorate) from there?
When you pay for a service, then that's what you should get. Not multiple visits until they get it right. In my opinion that is enabling unprofessional people (either unethical or inexperienced) to stay in business and fleece more people.
Or am I just an *sshole? :) :) Tommy
I guess it's my fault with GM then. I mean I bought a brand new truck. Then the focker broke down right away and I did take it back so they could make it right. What a fool I was. Everyone makes a mistake. Ya gotta give them a chance to right it.
Riverbound, pass the popcorn please and who's loading the bong rips??

[JR131]

you also have to concider the CUSTOMERS that think they know more than the person that sets up the boat and makes detramental changes to a perfectly hard running boat than calls you up and says "I HAVENT DONE ANYTHING TO IT IT JUST QUIT RUNNING ALL BY ITSELF"
JR

[BrendellaJet]

instead of all the arguing, can we see some pix of R&D's work, their boats, the operation, etc?

[JR131]

the website is not quite finished but you can log on to
r-dmarine.com and see some of the action
the skiboats part of the website is not finished yet sorry
jr

[jdf]

hey jr give us a call we have you old boat from 87 need some info on it as for set up and stuff 903 360 7862 denise

[Smitty19]

If you would have seen the damage and the over all workmanship that I saw, it would give you alot more reality on why chose to not go back, and the fact that I was able to save the 6K in parts and start over. Why would I take a chance again? . I didn't sue because it I don't have much faith in our legal system, it was bigger than small claims, and the 6 hr drive,I cut my loss and try to learn from my mistake should have done more research. I just realized, the smile and thinking he's a nice guy is kind of like the guy you think a guy is one way from the outside and the otherside he stabing you in the back (HB SR.) sometimes it's hard to spot until it's too late.

[riverbound]

I guess it's my fault with GM then. I mean I bought a brand new truck. Then the focker broke down right away and I did take it back so they could make it right. What a fool I was. Everyone makes a mistake. Ya gotta give them a chance to right it.
Riverbound, pass the popcorn please and who's loading the bong rips??
LOL...Im all out of popcorn....but :D
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30527&stc=1&d=1178758794

[thatguy]

Superdave, I understand your point for sure. BUT, I think GM is a little different story. Dropping a few thousand quid at the boat shop is a little different than buying a new truck.
PS- You could of got a Dodge, don't ya know!!;)
Tommy :D :D
PS- Point well taken, however. Guess it depends on $ amount and is it worth risking to recoup.

[superdave013]

Superdave, I understand your point for sure. BUT, I think GM is a little different story. Dropping a few thousand quid at the boat shop is a little different than buying a new truck.
PS- You could of got a Dodge, don't ya know!!;)
Tommy :D :D
PS- Point well taken, however. Guess it depends on $ amount and is it worth risking to recoup.
:) thanks for being a sport about it. All in fun as you can tell. I still have the chevy and the wife drives it every day. BTW, I did buy a Dodge a few years ago. Nice truck for a 1/2 ton. The brakes suck big dick though.

[superdave013]

LOL...Im all out of popcorn....but :D
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30527&stc=1&d=1178758794
Ok, I take back all the mean things I ever said to you! :sqeyes:

[SK48]

:) Always had a good experience with R&D marine. It has been several years
but I would use Harold again. He was one of the best jet circle drivers ever.

[JR131]

Geee smitty,as i remember the conversation when you got here from up north,
you had the same problems with your old marine shop that you are bitching on
this thread about us now.Geeee sounds like an operator error rather than a
marine shop problem
as far as the scoop problem,I personaly remember telling you to "make sure that you perform your MAINTANANCE program because this is a RACE BOAT
and will KILL you real fast at over 100 mph if you are not careful" the stingers as well as the rest of the underwater gear go through alot of stress,so with that in mind need i say more
Anyone else that reads this thread might also want to check there own underwater gearsuch as the scoop,shoe,rideplate, and all of the bolts that are part of a standard race application so the same thing dosen't happen to you that happened to our buddy smitty 19
jr

[hang tight]

Riopup, Your last post showed me and everyone, YOU HAVE NO CLUE. I don't meet your standards... That's a good thing. I wouldn't want to lower myself to your level. You act all big and bad when your not in person. And I'm sure your a PUSSY in person. If your as smart as you think you are , why didn't you do the work yourself. hmmmmm Because you have no clue!!!!! Well you bore me and I am not going to waste my time on a fool. But please continue to show your stupidity. Don't let me down now.

[BUSBY]

As I said before, I have never done business w/ R&D before, but I know both Jr. & Sr.
Also, as I said before ... research your shop and their work prior to going to them.
Every business in the world has an unhappy customer once in a while, and you most likely will not hear from all of the happy ones ... but the unhappy ones seem to make their presence known (in my experiences).
At my shop, it was our policy to do whatever it took to rectify an unhappy customer (within reason) ... but if they refused to return, it made it hard to fix what they were unhappy with.
Again, not defending R&D ... just trying to stop the bashing ... I know for a fact that every boat shop around here has a few unhappy customers.
My .02 ... I'm sure everyone has better things to do than this.

[AV137]

Well said Busby,
I have dealt with R&D now for 3 years did my homework and the people I spoke with highly recommended them.Like I said before they completely built
my boat from the ground up and I could not be happier with Harold's and Jr.'s
and Jimmy's work I only have a 19 Daytona with a .030 over 454 and I won the 10 second bracket and run 105 mph @ the track and 107 mph @ the river.The whole build was done in less time than I imagined.They truely are a great set of friends.:)

[Jet2Riv]

instead of all the arguing, can we see some pix of R&D's work, their boats, the operation, etc?
Here are some pics of my boat that R&D Marine has worked on.
First I would like to personally Thank Harold, Junior, Jimmy and all the guys that hang out there that have helped me put this boat together.
I have no problems recommending this shop to work on my boat or any of my buddy’s boats. I have sent people there and never had any complaints.
Customer Service let me think.
I was having steering cable issues one time when I was on vacation in Havasu.
Harold drove out, we fixed the problem, replaced the cables and he drove back on the same day, ALL ON HIS DIME.
I would say that is pretty dam good customer service.
If anybody would like to talk to me about R&D Marine
Feel free to call me (714)726-0322
Thanks again R&D Marine you made my boat fun again!
Dave
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/DSCN3825.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/DSCN3946.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/DSCN0161.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/514/265DSCN0165.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/0321999-R1-041-19.jpg

[JR131]

nice weelie jet to riv
jr