Howard Bullet Versus?

[It's Only Money]

I know that those of you that realize Hot Boat has a magazine also probably read Powerboat but I wanted to posts their findings and recent results of their testing:
The current issue is their annual awards issue and notably the boats are all fantastic representations of their respective manufacturers. Congrats to all the builders who took home awards.
There was an interesting fact that stood out to me though...the following chart I developed to highlight this fact:
Boat Weight HP Top Speed
Dave's Custom Boats FX-28 5,000# 800 90.1
Hallet 270S 4,950# 700* 90.1
Howard 28 Bullet 4,800# 600 89.4
* Ilmor
It seems that the DCB needs 200 more horsepower to get anothe 0.7 mph over the Howard and the Hallet needs 100 more HP.
But what really jumped out at me and I can only believe it is an error...the Conquest deck boat that was "Deck Boat of the Year" needed 625 Ilmor ponies to go 6.3 mph SLOWER than the Howard. This with a cat hull that should be way more efficient.
My deductions...either Powerboat Magazine doesn't know what they were doing or misprinted the numbers ....OR.... the Howard 28 Bullet has one damn fine, efficient hull.
Your conclusions may vary...

[redneckcharlie]

The only true way to compare boats and their efficiency is to put the exact same motor in each boat. They should all have the same standard X dimension as well. There are so many variables when trying to compare top end speed that it isn't even funny. The other thing that should be done, is actually weighing each representation, from the manufacturer. It is fairly ironic that not one boat magazine has ever suggested this in any of their testing. Kind of makes you wonder who the magazine is actually for, the advertisers dollar, or the end subscriber.:jawdrop:

[djunkie]

The only true way to compare boats and their efficiency is to put the exact same motor in each boat. They should all have the same standard X dimension as well. There are so many variables when trying to compare top end speed that it isn't even funny. The other thing that should be done, is actually weighing each representation, from the manufacturer. It is fairly ironic that not one boat magazine has ever suggested this in any of their testing. Kind of makes you wonder who the magazine is actually for, the advertisers dollar, or the end subscriber.:jawdrop:
This is all true. But it will never happen where all the manufacturers actually do this test. I have spoken with one of ***boats test drivers who is very well known in the boating industry and I asked him the question of which V-hull boat out there is the best is his opinion. He told me the Bullett hands down!!!!!

[YeLLowBoaT]

Most "tests" in boating/ car mags are paid for by one or more of the companys in the tests. Very, very rarly to you actaully get a "real" test. I'm sure you have seen many, many tests of the newer half ton trucks... Have you ever actaully look at what they are testing? I don't think I've ever seen one truck test that took trucks with the same options( IE motor, trany, wheel base, rear end) and run them head to head. Also since these same companys spend $$$$ in ads in said mags, you will never have one of them speak thier minds.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

the Howard 28 Bullet has one damn fine, efficient hull.
You would be correct... :D

[ToMorrow44]

Well theres also a lot of other factors as well when comparing these. You gotta look at acceleration and top speed RPM along with many other variables (elevation, water conditions...). I know the 28 DCB with the 800efi was spinning 5750 with a bravo 1 prop. I've seen most of those set up with a Hydromotive 5-blade and if you went a little bigger you could ring out a few more mph. But it's all about how the customer wants it set up as well for where they live or how they boat. Basically, like others said, its never really comparing apples to apples. I do agree that all of those boats mentioned are very nice and efficient hulls. I believe that Powerboat does give honest tests however.
-Tom

[phebus]

I agree that prop selection is a big part of the equation that a lot of the boat builders don't take full advantage of.
Also, it would be hard to compare a deckboat with a Bullet, when the deckboat probably an 8'6" beam and considerably more weight.
It would be interesting just to compare a closed deck Bullet with an open bow, and see what difference in speed there was.
Finally, there is no doubt that the Bullet is a fast effecient hull.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

It would be interesting just to compare a closed deck Bullet with an open bow, and see what difference in speed there was.
Rick, I believe the closed bow is ~2-3 MPH faster than the open bow...

[kap]

HH
I would think the open bow is faster as the closed bow weighs more????
Maybe the aerodynamics ie... less drag or wind resistance of the closed bow might have something to do with it :idea: :idea:
KAP

[Essex502]

The hard deck Howard Bullet is about 2 mph faster than the open bow.

[TPI]

I have heard those Bullets are pretty fast,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but more importantly I hear that they handle unbelievably...................................... :D I know a guy personally that just drove one recently from the area of "pilot rock" in Havasu, all the way past Black Meadow landing, and never went slower than 107 mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:D Seriously, they handle great!
Like I have always said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you want to go under 80 mph in a 25-30 vee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you have quite a few choices, but if you want to run 90+ or even 100 mph with a single engine stern drive vee, IMO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,there is only one real choice. One ride in a fast 28 Bullet will make ANYONE a believer! Glass, chop, it does not matter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the boat handles.

[TCHB]

Most deck boats with semi stock power ride very wet which takes performance away from a cat. A cat type hull works only if it can be lifted off. If you can not free it up it the v hull will be faster all the way around.

[Lavey29]

I have heard those Bullets are pretty fast,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but more importantly I hear that they handle unbelievably...................................... :D I know a guy personally that just drove one recently from the area of "pilot rock" in Havasu, all the way past Black Meadow landing, and never went slower than 107 mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:D Seriously, they handle great!
Like I have always said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you want to go under 80 mph in a 25-30 vee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you have quite a few choices, but if you want to run 90+ or even 100 mph with a single engine stern drive vee, IMO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,there is only one real choice. One ride in a fast 28 Bullet will make ANYONE a believer! Glass, chop, it does not matter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the boat handles.
Yes, those Howards handle great on 6" of chop. They build a boat that runs fast on certain water conditions. Lavey builds a boat for racing in all types of water conditions. You have to decide where you boat primarily and the prevelant water condtions at that spot. For instance, you never see a Howard in the ocean or in Factory offshore racing events so it would not be a good choice for that type of water conditions or for any type of offshore racing. If you boat on smooth water lakes, Howards are a great choice to run fast.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Yes, those Howards handle great on 6" of chop. They build a boat that runs fast on certain water conditions. Lavey builds a boat for racing in all types of water conditions. You have to decide where you boat primarily and the prevelant water condtions at that spot. For instance, you never see a Howard in the ocean or in Factory offshore racing events so it would not be a good choice for that type of water conditions or for any type of offshore racing. If you boat on smooth water lakes, Howards are a great choice to run fast.
Howards handle the afternoon slop and chop in Havasu just fine. You don't win 4 powerboat sport boat of the year awards by having a boat that runs great only on 6" of chop.....

[kap]

Lavey 29
Lets just say Lavey's Offshore experience and track record is based on their committment to racing. In offshore they dominate in F-1 and OSS Vee Lite usually in the #1 or #2 podium.
I currently own a Lavey V-Bottom and it is absolutely a dream in the ocean. Your 29 is a big water ocean boat---Havasu is a pond for that boat with the capacity of the Lavey to handle 4-6 Foot ocean swells at speed with no problem.
That being said your prior conclusion is unsupported if we look at the priority of most manufacturers.
_____________________
Howard custom boats on the other hand has not expressed an interest in offshore racing. If we are to go down the road of offshore racing. It is an expensive venture and the reward is usually a trophy and ability to claim a title.
In addition, I do not recall DCB being involved in offshore racing yet they make an excellent boat and hull which can be competitive in the offshore environment. However, the committment to racing has not been the priority for the manufacturer.
Note: Other examples are Hallett, Eliminator...
______________________
Lavey 29 wrote:
You have to decide where you boat primarily and the prevelant water condtions at that spot.
This is true!!!!
Thus, to say one is better than the other is boasting, puffery, brand loyalty talking. Both manufacturers build an awesome product each catering to a specific buyer. To conclude that one is better than the other cannot be supported by who races and who does not.
KAP
P.S. I would like to see a 28 Bullet in the Offshore Circuit, I think it would do extremely well in the field. Maybe someone with the desire to break new ground will take one out and race it. If even in a P-1 class.

[TPI]

Yes, those Howards handle great on 6" of chop. They build a boat that runs fast on certain water conditions. Lavey builds a boat for racing in all types of water conditions. You have to decide where you boat primarily and the prevelant water condtions at that spot. For instance, you never see a Howard in the ocean or in Factory offshore racing events so it would not be a good choice for that type of water conditions or for any type of offshore racing. If you boat on smooth water lakes, Howards are a great choice to run fast.
Sir,
If you ever see me at Havasu, Mead, Mohave, or Powell, when the 2'-3' windy white caps are common, and everyone is coming in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will be more than happy to take you for a 100+ mph ride,,,,,,,,,,,,,anytime,,,,,,,,,,and maintain that speed(not just a quick burst). I will even pay for the gas and provide you with a nice cold beverage. I don't claim to have a race boat(nor does Howard), but at speeds in excess of 100 mph, I have not come across a single engine vee 27-30' that will out handle or out perform a Howard 28 Bullet in more different scenario's(glass, chop, whatever). Seriously, this is not a single function boat at all.

[TPI]

Sir,
If you ever see me at Havasu, Mead, Mohave, or Powell, when the 2'-3' windy white caps are common, and everyone is coming in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will be more than happy to take you for a 100+ mph ride,,,,,,,,,,,,,anytime,,,,,,,,,,and maintain that speed(not just a quick burst). I will even pay for the gas and provide you with a nice cold beverage. I don't claim to have a race boat(nor does Howard), but at speeds in excess of 100 mph, I have not come across a single engine vee 27-30' that will out handle or out perform a Howard 28 Bullet in more different scenario's(glass, chop, whatever). Seriously, this is not a single function boat at all.
BTW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,No one EVER uses the trim tabs on a 28 Bullet, unless they are wake boarding,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are stictly for looks:D

[phebus]

Sir,
If you ever see me at Havasu, Mead, Mohave, or Powell, when the 2'-3' windy white caps are common, and everyone is coming in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will be more than happy to take you for a 100+ mph ride,,,,,,,,,,,,,anytime,,,,,,,,,,and maintain that speed(not just a quick burst). I will even pay for the gas and provide you with a nice cold beverage. I don't claim to have a race boat(nor does Howard), but at speeds in excess of 100 mph, I have not come across a single engine vee 27-30' that will out handle or out perform a Howard 28 Bullet in more different scenario's(glass, chop, whatever). Seriously, this is not a single function boat at all.
O.K. that does it, I'm going to have to start ripping on Howards (even if it's not true). That's a great offer!! :D

[Beer-30]

But what really jumped out at me and I can only believe it is an error...the Conquest deck boat that was "Deck Boat of the Year" needed 625 Ilmor ponies to go 6.3 mph SLOWER than the Howard. This with a cat hull that should be way more efficient.
You have to throw this question out. No way can you compare a deck boat to a sport-V.
First of all the Conquest is probably twice as heavy as the Bullet (not really, but you get the picture) as it is for family boating. Storage everywhere, wood sub-floor, thick glass. No light lay-up anywhere. On a sport boat, especially one built for speed, areas that don't need thick glass don't get it. Of course, the hull is still built perfectly solid, but careful measures are taken to make sure no more material goes into the boat than it needs. Plus, sometimes, lighter materials (carbon fiber) are used to keep strength but lighten the boat. Deck boat building is not about saving weight, it's about making a floating patio.
Second, there are alot more areas on a deck boat for the wind to get a hold of. Wind resistance is a major component of any deck. The wind scoops right down the middle and grabs on to every seat, windshield, handle, bracket and section of flooring.
One can compare decks to decks, but not decks to performance V's.

[TPI]

Phebus,
I will be out there the whole week after Memorial day. Look me up, I will give you a ride! In fact,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if I can, I will try to drive you in mine and that other red one that runs over 110 mph,,,,,just to show you how boath lay ups handle. You will have a permanent grin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I promise!

[djunkie]

Phebus,
I will be out there the whole week after Memorial day. Look me up, I will give you a ride! In fact,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if I can, I will try to drive you in mine and that other red one that runs over 110 mph,,,,,just to show you how boath lay ups handle. You will have a permanent grin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I promise!
He'll probably have a permanent brown stain in his shorts too. :D :D
J/K. I just wish I could be there to ride in it. :cry: :cry:

[Lavey29]

Lavey 29
Lets just say Lavey's Offshore experience and track record is based on their committment to racing. In offshore they dominate in F-1 and OSS Vee Lite usually in the #1 or #2 podium.
I currently own a Lavey V-Bottom and it is absolutely a dream in the ocean. Your 29 is a big water ocean boat---Havasu is a pond for that boat with the capacity of the Lavey to handle 4-6 Foot ocean swells at speed with no problem.
That being said your prior conclusion is unsupported if we look at the priority of most manufacturers.
_____________________
Howard custom boats on the other hand has not expressed an interest in offshore racing. If we are to go down the road of offshore racing. It is an expensive venture and the reward is usually a trophy and ability to claim a title.
In addition, I do not recall DCB being involved in offshore racing yet they make an excellent boat and hull which can be competitive in the offshore environment. However, the committment to racing has not been the priority for the manufacturer.
Note: Other examples are Hallett, Eliminator...
______________________
Lavey 29 wrote:
This is true!!!!
Thus, to say one is better than the other is boasting, puffery, brand loyalty talking. Both manufacturers build an awesome product each catering to a specific buyer. To conclude that one is better than the other cannot be supported by who races and who does not.
KAP
P.S. I would like to see a 28 Bullet in the Offshore Circuit, I think it would do extremely well in the field. Maybe someone with the desire to break new ground will take one out and race it. If even in a P-1 class.
Kap, you bring up good points and reasoning and I am certainly not saying that Howard does not put out a superior quality product that anyone would love to own. In reference to racing, in my opinion, if you are going to be involved in this expensive sport, then you are there to win and be the best of the best. In order to do this, you will want to use the best boat you can for the class that you are racing (cat of V). I don't know of any Howard boats currently or previously ever being used in offshore racing. There may be, I just do not know of any. Why would this be, if they handle any water at superior levels. Seems like a racer who wants to win would want to use their boat. I speculate that there are reasons other then costs involved. Boat manufactureres would love to boast about their boats winning heritage in offshore racing (Fountain). I personally love the quality and style of both boats. I just feel that they handle differently with one working better on smooth water and one working better in rough water and varying conditions.

[Lavey29]

Sir,
If you ever see me at Havasu, Mead, Mohave, or Powell, when the 2'-3' windy white caps are common, and everyone is coming in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will be more than happy to take you for a 100+ mph ride,,,,,,,,,,,,,anytime,,,,,,,,,,and maintain that speed(not just a quick burst). I will even pay for the gas and provide you with a nice cold beverage. I don't claim to have a race boat(nor does Howard), but at speeds in excess of 100 mph, I have not come across a single engine vee 27-30' that will out handle or out perform a Howard 28 Bullet in more different scenario's(glass, chop, whatever). Seriously, this is not a single function boat at all.
That's a great offer Gary which I would certainly consider if we bump into each other up there. It would give me a chance to bargain you down on one of your 848. I want to ask you a question about your motors but can't seem to be able to PM you for some reason. I will try and call you in the office when I can. After you give me a ride up in havazoo, bring that pumpkin down to long beach and I will put my in also and we can see how they compare to running to catalina... :D

[Lavey29]

Howards handle the afternoon slop and chop in Havasu just fine. You don't win 4 powerboat sport boat of the year awards by having a boat that runs great only on 6" of chop.....
I wonder how much money and advertising in the magazines has to do with some of the selections. Do you ever notice that certain brands of boats seem to get significant more paper time and mag covers then other brands of boats. Not to say they are not top quality products, but I am sure the more you open your wallet, the better your press coverage will be. Howards are great boats. Have you ever seen one in person or in the magazine outside the break water in the ocean being tested? I am speaking of the 28 of course. I haven't yet but they may have done it previously. :idea:

[djunkie]

Kap, you bring up good points and reasoning and I am certainly not saying that Howard does not put out a superior quality product that anyone would love to own. In reference to racing, in my opinion, if you are going to be involved in this expensive sport, then you are there to win and be the best of the best. In order to do this, you will want to use the best boat you can for the class that you are racing (cat of V). I don't know of any Howard boats currently or previously ever being used in offshore racing. There may be, I just do not know of any. Why would this be, if they handle any water at superior levels. Seems like a racer who wants to win would want to use their boat. I speculate that there are reasons other then costs involved. Boat manufactureres would love to boast about their boats winning heritage in offshore racing (Fountain). I personally love the quality and style of both boats. I just feel that they handle differently with one working better on smooth water and one working better in rough water and varying conditions.
Or someone willing to sponsor you. Hell if Commander wanted to sponsor me to run one of their boats I'd probably do it. :idea: :idea:

[Lavey29]

Or someone willing to sponsor you. Hell if Commander wanted to sponsor me to run one of their boats I'd probably do it. :idea: :idea:
"I'd PROBABLY do it"....lol...Sure if you get a full ride sponsor that plays an important part in your decision. I bet that if you were soliciting sponsorship, you would want to start at the top with proven racing products and then work your way down. At some point though, common sense is going to tell you that certain hulls out there just aren't made for the type of use you are intending and even a good sponsor offer may not be worth your safety in this particular sport.

[djunkie]

"I'd PROBABLY do it"....lol...Sure if you get a full ride sponsor that plays an important part in your decision. I bet that if you were soliciting sponsorship, you would want to start at the top with proven racing products and then work your way down. At some point though, common sense is going to tell you that certain hulls out there just aren't made for the type of use you are intending and even a good sponsor offer may not be worth your safety in this particular sport.
How do you know no one hasn't tried to get Howard to Sponsor a race boat? All I'm saying is, it may not be in Howards interest to race offshore. No where does that mean the boat couldn't do it or even be a contender.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I wonder how much money and advertising in the magazines has to do with some of the selections. Do you ever notice that certain brands of boats seem to get significant more paper time and mag covers then other brands of boats. Not to say they are not top quality products, but I am sure the more you open your wallet, the better your press coverage will be. Howards are great boats. Have you ever seen one in person or in the magazine outside the break water in the ocean being tested? I am speaking of the 28 of course. I haven't yet but they may have done it previously. :idea:
I absolutely wonder about that. But if my memory is correct, Howard only advertises in Powerboat 4-5 issues per year as opposed to full page ads every month...

[Lavey29]

I absolutely wonder about that. But if my memory is correct, Howard only advertises in Powerboat 4-5 issues per year as opposed to full page ads every month...
Seems like I always see their full page advertisement, but you may be correct. It is the same in all types of business, if you want the contract, some back door money guarrantees it. If you want good reviews and a lot of coverage in the mag, buy add space and take the editors to lunch. If I were running a business, I would do it to make sure my business was sucessful.

[Lavey29]

How do you know no one hasn't tried to get Howard to Sponsor a race boat? All I'm saying is, it may not be in Howards interest to race offshore. No where does that mean the boat couldn't do it or even be a contender.
True DJ and if you look at my posts, I reference that I do not know 100% as proven fact but based on what I do know, what I have read, persons that are knowledgeable in the boating arena, I have formed an opinion. I'd love to see one running in that V lite class where they all have to use the same 525 engine and be a certain weight. To me that is the most competitive class that relies on the efficiency of the hull, the set up with props and X along with the drivers skills. The boats in that class are always running tight in the races.

[djunkie]

Seems like I always see their full page advertisement, but you may be correct. It is the same in all types of business, if you want the contract, some back door money guarrantees it. If you want good reviews and a lot of coverage in the mag, buy add space and take the editors to lunch. If I were running a business, I would do it to make sure my business was sucessful.
I'm sure this is all true. But, if you ever get a chance to talk to some of the test drivers from ***boat about what they feel is the best handling, performing single engine V-bottom boat out there is, you may be shocked what they say. :idea: :idea: :D

[djunkie]

True DJ and if you look at my posts, I reference that I do not know 100% as proven fact but based on what I do know, what I have read, persons that are knowledgeable in the boating arena, I have formed an opinion. I'd love to see one running in that V lite class where they all have to use the same 525 engine and be a certain weight. To me that is the most competitive class that relies on the efficiency of the hull, the set up with props and X along with the drivers skills. The boats in that class are always running tight in the races.
I would like to see it too. I just don't think it will never happen as long as Gene owns the company. I could see him getting Howard back into ski racing before he'd ever think about offshore racing.

[Lavey29]

I would like to see it too. I just don't think it will never happen as long as Gene owns the company. I could see him getting Howard back into ski racing before he'd ever think about offshore racing.
Either way, they still build a bad ass boat. Can't wait to see the 35. Personally, I would like to see the boat mags do a comprehensive test which involved similar size and weight V bottoms all running the same motor. Prop and set up would be preferential. The test would have to be done with all the boats during the same day or days so the water and temp conditions would be consistent. I'd like to see them run on glass, 6" ripple and even big afternoon windy cross chop. Same test drivers in each boat. Top end and accelleration along with handling. Then you could get some good accurate speed numbers and evaluations of performance. I recall this being done with the cats awhile back.

[Lavey29]

I'm sure this is all true. But, if you ever get a chance to talk to some of the test drivers from ***boat about what they feel is the best handling, performing single engine V-bottom boat out there is, you may be shocked what they say. :idea: :idea: :D
I wonder if what they truly feel gets transcribed onto paper in the articles or if it gets watered down or completely changed around to keep the sponsors happy. I wish I could talk to some of these professionals and get unbiased opinions. That would make a big impression on me when I was shopping for a new floater...

[TPI]

That's a great offer Gary which I would certainly consider if we bump into each other up there. It would give me a chance to bargain you down on one of your 848. I want to ask you a question about your motors but can't seem to be able to PM you for some reason. I will try and call you in the office when I can. After you give me a ride up in havazoo, bring that pumpkin down to long beach and I will put my in also and we can see how they compare to running to catalina... :D
I have an 848 ready whenever you are:D , although it isnt close cooled.
I would love a ride in your boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I might have to take you up on that.
Although I have a better deal for you:
Lets take the tabs off my boat and see how it runs in glass, chop, and some pretty good sized white cap water and we will document how it performs with 1100hp, then I will put the same 1100 hp motor in your boat and we will pull the tabs off and run it in the same scenarios and compare notes....................... The fact is at 24 degrees, your bottom is going to fly and re -enter WAY better than my boat, no doubt about it, so it will be smoother off the jumps and huge water, but plant that bottom to the water and then compare the two,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If your flying, are you really testing the bottom? In fact, its hard to believe that there is such a big difference between 22.5(Howard) and 24 degrees(Lavey), but there is. If you look at some the fastest big vee bottoms they are running 22-22.5 degrees,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they are running some big numbers.......................even in the ocean. I will be the first to say,,,,,if I ran fast(90+) in the ocean all of the time, I would want a boat with at least 24 degrees of deadrise, but my little open cooled lake boat will always see fresh water:D

[u4ea32]

if I ran fast(90+) in the ocean all of the time, I would want a boat with at least 24 degrees of deadrise
To run 90 in the ocean, you need length, not just deadrise. No 29 footer by anyone runs 90+ in the ocean on any typical summer afternoon, or probably even a typical summer weekend morning.
When the Lavey won -- at OSSVL Puerto Rico -- they did it at 55.25 mph, with second, third, and fourth and sixth places running at 49 mph.
On that same day, the OSSV Fountains -- at 22.5 degree deadrise but a 10 degree pad -- did 73 or 67 (1,2,3).
Only Team CRC broke the 90 mph mark (92.55), with the three OSSCX boats (big cats with essentially unlimited power) did 92.55, 89.46, and 86.65. Consider that the deadrise of a cat is much, much less than a V.
Size matters on the ocean.

[Lavey29]

To run 90 in the ocean, you need length, not just deadrise. No 29 footer by anyone runs 90+ in the ocean on any typical summer afternoon, or probably even a typical summer weekend morning.
When the Lavey won -- at OSSVL Puerto Rico -- they did it at 55.25 mph, with second, third, and fourth and sixth places running at 49 mph.
On that same day, the OSSV Fountains -- at 22.5 degree deadrise but a 10 degree pad -- did 73 or 67 (1,2,3).
Only Team CRC broke the 90 mph mark (92.55), with the three OSSCX boats (big cats with essentially unlimited power) did 92.55, 89.46, and 86.65. Consider that the deadrise of a cat is much, much less than a V.
Size matters on the ocean.
Those lap speeds take into consideration the turn speeds also when they do the average. Straight lines speeds are obviously higher than the averages. The bigger boats run faster but they also have big dual motors.

[92562]

True, Lavey has enjoyed successful facing efforts; but Howard has nothing to prove. They build the fastest single engine V, period. But it's not just the speed, it's the whole package. An open bow 28 with a 525 will run close to most F-1 boats with the same power. Take a closed deck & strip it for racing and use the Orange Boat's synthetic lay up and I guarantee it would beat anything. Racing takes more than the comitment of the driver. It takes factory backing, and tons of $$$ for very little return. Howard does not need to win races to sell boats. Anyone limping the shoreline back to Cottonwood on 2-4 foot chop with the wind howling, would rather be with me in the Bullet cruising down the middle at a comfortable 65 or so. That is what sells boats! As for Catalina, I'd love to blast over in a closed deck 28. Need a co-pilot Gary?:D
----Rob

[Lavey29]

I have an 848 ready whenever you are:D , although it isnt close cooled.
I would love a ride in your boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I might have to take you up on that.
Although I have a better deal for you:
Lets take the tabs off my boat and see how it runs in glass, chop, and some pretty good sized white cap water and we will document how it performs with 1100hp, then I will put the same 1100 hp motor in your boat and we will pull the tabs off and run it in the same scenarios and compare notes....................... The fact is at 24 degrees, your bottom is going to fly and re -enter WAY better than my boat, no doubt about it, so it will be smoother off the jumps and huge water, but plant that bottom to the water and then compare the two,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If your flying, are you really testing the bottom? In fact, its hard to believe that there is such a big difference between 22.5(Howard) and 24 degrees(Lavey), but there is. If you look at some the fastest big vee bottoms they are running 22-22.5 degrees,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they are running some big numbers.......................even in the ocean. I will be the first to say,,,,,if I ran fast(90+) in the ocean all of the time, I would want a boat with at least 24 degrees of deadrise, but my little open cooled lake boat will always see fresh water:D
What, the fast pumpkin is afraid of salt... :D I do use the 380merc tabs to help smooth out the ride in varying water conditions. If you put that motor in my boat, I would take off and never come back. Running fast in the ocean or rough lake water has a lot more to do than just with the deadrise. The whole set up of the bottom design, the step or steps, strakes, etc...detune your motor down to 950. I am running about 825 at 5400lbs. Your boat weighs 4400lbs. I'd give you 125hp and 1000 pounds and I bet we'd have a pretty even race. We would need to do it over some distance with good varying water conditions, light rip up to big cross chop. Be a cool article for ***boat to run...

[Lavey29]

True, Lavey has enjoyed successful facing efforts; but Howard has nothing to prove. They build the fastest single engine V, period. But it's not just the speed, it's the whole package. An open bow 28 with a 525 will run close to most F-1 boats with the same power. Take a closed deck & strip it for racing and use the Orange Boat's synthetic lay up and I guarantee it would beat anything. Racing takes more than the comitment of the driver. It takes factory backing, and tons of $$$ for very little return. Howard does not need to win races to sell boats. Anyone limping the shoreline back to Cottonwood on 2-4 foot chop with the wind howling, would rather be with me in the Bullet cruising down the middle at a comfortable 65 or so. That is what sells boats! As for Catalina, I'd love to blast over in a closed deck 28. Need a co-pilot Gary?:D
----Rob
If it will beat anything then someone would obviously want to use it as their race boat. I know I would if I was a racer. There are none (= 0) Howards currently out there nor do I know of any that have ever been out there. I have to ask myself why??? I have heard that Lavey extends an open welcome to any boats that would like to come down during their catalina lunch run. Other manufactured boats show up but no (= 0) Howards have ventured to accept the offer and run in the ocean. They build a great boat that runs fast. There are certainly other well built boats that run just as fast and faster than Howard. There open bow 28 with a 525 will never be close to a match up with some of the current boats that run in F1. Lavey runs just over 90mph with their 2750 race boat and it will run in any conditions. Howard open bow will do maybe 83mph with the 525 on good water. You are right that racing takes money and backing for little more than bragging rights. But those bragging rights also help sell boats and build a reputation and longevity for the company.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Gene and Mike don't race because they don't need to nor do they have any desire to. Gene got his racing fulfillment back when he raced in the late 60's and early 70's. Also, they don't need racing to sell boats. Howard sells out their yearly production EVERY year without racing. Also, Gene does not sell the boats as race boats or for racing, he sells a pleasure boat.
As far as Howards in the ocean, you can look here. (http://www.howardboats.com/boat_reviews/powerboat0401-28_bullet.pdf) First 28 Bullet built, run in Long Beach 2-4 foot chop.
From the article:
"What did surprise us -big time- was the 28 Bullet's performance in the open water. In the 2-to-4 foot seas it behaved, in the words of our lead test driver, "like a much bigger boat". The Bullet impressed us with its ability to knife through swells and follow them with a comfortable, nose-level attitude always landing softly. But it was most dazzling in quartering conditions.
"We had 2-to-4 footers and a sideways wind chop out here today," said our lead test driver. We were running full speed and the boat just danced across all of it without any problems."
Oh yeah, the lead test driver is Bob Teague who most people will generally agree knows a thing or two about driving a boat in pretty much any water condition.
Powerboats final comments on the 28 Bullet in this article:
"...the 28 Bullet is as captivating and capable as any single-engine offshore boat we have seen in a long time."
By the way, the boat used in this test won Custom Sport Boat of the Year. (http://www.powerboatmagazine.com/2001tests/may6.php)
After all is said and done, the Howard Bullets speak for themselves and there is no need on the part of Gene or Mike to race or even support a race team as they don't need to race to sell boats.

[Lavey29]

It's a nice article on a well built good running boat. I am sure Bob get's no business from Howard boats being right next door to his shop so he gives an honest unbiased opinion at all times when covering Howard boats. The amount of positive coverage you get is contingent on the amount of money you lay out to the mag. They all do it. I am certainly not knocking Howard boats in any way. I think they are one of the few at the top of the list of custom boats on either coast. My opinion is that if they are so good all the time in any water condtions and can stand up to the rigorous abuse of racing better then someone, anyone, would want to run one of them in the appropriate class. They would want to be in the best boat to be the best at all the races during the season. No one chooses to use it as a race boat. I see old Warlocks still being used out there in the mags. Could there possibly be another explanation as to why no one runs a Howard in F1? I am curious.... :idea:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

It's a nice article on a well built good running boat. I am sure Bob get's no business from Howard boats being right next door to his shop so he gives an honest unbiased opinion at all times when covering Howard boats. The amount of positive coverage you get is contingent on the amount of money you lay out to the mag. They all do it. I am certainly not knocking Howard boats in any way. I think they are one of the few at the top of the list of custom boats on either coast. My opinion is that if they are so good all the time in any water condtions and can stand up to the rigorous abuse of racing better then someone, anyone, would want to run one of them in the appropriate class. They would want to be in the best boat to be the best at all the races during the season. No one chooses to use it as a race boat. I see old Warlocks still being used out there in the mags. Could there possibly be another explanation as to why no one runs a Howard in F1? I am curious.... :idea:
Yes, Gene does not want to race. It's that simple. He will not sell one for race purposes, period...

[92562]

Sorry Lavey 29 but your 2nd & 3rd sentences show how little you know about a Howard. You are welcome to ride in mine anytime. By the way, I live just down the street from Jeff's (Camire) old house in Murrieta. I'd never knock their boat, they are great guys with a great product. The Howard just does more for what my family and I prefer to do. The original intent of this post had to do more with "hull efficiency" and Howard definitely shines in that catagory!
-----Rob

[TPI]

What, the fast pumpkin is afraid of salt... :D I do use the 380merc tabs to help smooth out the ride in varying water conditions. If you put that motor in my boat, I would take off and never come back. Running fast in the ocean or rough lake water has a lot more to do than just with the deadrise. The whole set up of the bottom design, the step or steps, strakes, etc...detune your motor down to 950. I am running about 825 at 5400lbs. Your boat weighs 4400lbs. I'd give you 125hp and 1000 pounds and I bet we'd have a pretty even race. We would need to do it over some distance with good varying water conditions, light rip up to big cross chop. Be a cool article for ***boat to run...
Its more like a tangerine:D I hate the salt water, and I think my trailer would too. I know my heads would,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyway,,,,,we will have to get together sometime.
I like to think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you can get a vee bottom boat to haul ass in the glass, it will surely haul ass in the chop. But thats not the case in the opposite scenario. A ton of boats going fast in the chop can do so because they are not connected to the water.
Especially at 60-70 mph and winning races. My hat is off to the drivers!
We are all proud of our boats,,,,,,,,,,,,,lord knows I am proud of mine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
What an awesome thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:D

[Lavey29]

Sorry Lavey 29 but your 2nd & 3rd sentences show how little you know about a Howard. You are welcome to ride in mine anytime. By the way, I live just down the street from Jeff's (Camire) old house in Murrieta. I'd never knock their boat, they are great guys with a great product. The Howard just does more for what my family and I prefer to do. The original intent of this post had to doe more with "hull efficiency" and Howard definitely shines in that catagory!
-----Rob
Not sure what you mean by the first part of your post. As I stated above though, I have nothing against Howard boats in any way. Absolutely a great boat. The best??? Not in my opinion...I do like what you said in your post when you referenced that "Howard just more for what my family and I prefer to do". That is one of the most important factors in choosing what boat and or style to go with (V, cat, deck, toon). They do have a high degree of hull efficiency also...the best???...again, not in my opinion...just so you know also, I spent considerable time down at Howard boats going over their stuff with a fine tooth comb. Walking around the shop, watching the rigging, reading the reviews, talking with Gene for an hour and half. A great guy to chat with and very eager to showcase his work. Checked them out in depth at the boat show, read every article o their website and listened to people on here about their stuff...I did the same thing with Lavey, Cobra, Essex, Showckwave, Hallet, etc....until I came to my conclusion on what I felt was the best all around boat out there (just my opinion) and I purchased what I have today.

[Lavey29]

Its more like a tangerine:D I hate the salt water, and I think my trailer would too. I know my heads would,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyway,,,,,we will have to get together sometime.
I like to think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you can get a vee bottom boat to haul ass in the glass, it will surely haul ass in the chop. But thats not the case in the opposite scenario. A ton of boats going fast in the chop can do so because they are not connected to the water.
Especially at 60-70 mph and winning races. My hat is off to the drivers!
We are all proud of our boats,,,,,,,,,,,,,lord knows I am proud of mine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
What an awesome thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:D
It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys :D you should be very proud of your bad ass Tangerine (Pumpkin) boat...I need to send you a PM about your motors though...

[92562]

Not sure what you mean by the first part of your post.
From what I've seen, Bob is if anything a little more critical of Howards due to their proximity. Looks like your research took you to the exact same builders I went to. For me it was the Lavey 26 or the 25 Bullet. I love mine, you love yours; but if I had the funds, I'd love to take a 28 Bullet in F1. Too bad work gets in the way!:D

[Lavey29]

From what I've seen, Bob is if anything a little more critical of Howards due to their proximity. Looks like your research took you to the exact same builders I went to. For me it was the Lavey 26 or the 25 Bullet. I love mine, you love yours; but if I had the funds, I'd love to take a 28 Bullet in F1. Too bad work gets in the way!:D
haha,,,yes we do love them,,,more than the wives sometimes :D I'd take the 25 bullet over the 26 Lavey...the 2750, 29 and 32 are built a little stronger then the smaller ones. I'd love to see what the 28 could do in F1 also. Damn work does get in the way of our dreams huh...

[Lavey29]

damn, all this boat bravado back and forth has got me burning to get back on the water and do some H boat hunting lookin for some lake races....but I typically have the wife and 3 year old with me on board which limits me to nothing over 70 for family safety reasons...I just cruise with them on board...hope to meet some of you guys up there for a coldie during the season and compare rides... :D

[plaster dave]

damn, all this boat bravado back and forth has got me burning to get back on the water and do some H boat hunting lookin for some lake races....but I typically have the wife and 3 year old with me on board which limits me to nothing over 70 for family safety reasons...I just cruise with them on board...hope to meet some of you guys up there for a coldie during the season and compare rides... :D
Have you ridin in a Howard or is this just what you think?

[92562]

damn, all this boat bravado back and forth has got me burning to get back on the water and do some H boat hunting lookin for some lake races....but I typically have the wife and 3 year old with me on board which limits me to nothing over 70 for family safety reasons...I just cruise with them on board...hope to meet some of you guys up there for a coldie during the season and compare rides... :D
True that!!! I'll be there (The Zuu) Father's Day weekend and the one following. I've always wanted to ride in the "big" Lavey! What do ya think!!
----Rob

[Lavey29]

Have you ridin in a Howard or is this just what you think?
Nope, but I am going to go for a ride when I can catch up to that guy in the big tangerine pumpkin....

[Lavey29]

True that!!! I'll be there (The Zuu) Father's Day weekend and the one following. I've always wanted to ride in the "big" Lavey! What do ya think!!
----Rob
The big ones the 32 with twins...I'd love to have that someday maybe...I will be up the last week of June through the 5th of July...I 'm not much into the crowded weekends. I was out there last week and Monday on the water we were the only ones in Steamboat for the first several hours..it was bitchen...if we end up there during the same days, you are more then welcome to take a ride and test drive mine...

[TPI]

Wait until you ride in the "Great Pumpkin", you will be speechless,,,,,,,trust me:D Also,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that new 5.0 Whipple is UNREAL!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have to say, with the new Whipple linkage design,,,,,,,,,,,,it is even smoother than running a 200ax! But when you start pushing the throttle forward,,,,,,,,,,,wow. The speed and performance is great,,,,,,,,,,,,but the smoothness is really shocking, seriously. It idles right at 850 out of gear and drops SMOOTHLY down to 740-750 rpms in gear. These new Whipple 5.0 efi's are it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BTW,,,,,,,,,,my longblock is the same longblock on an 848, just a little less compression. A guy could put this 5.0 SC on his 848(after he got used to the speed:D ) and it would be perfect at over 1000HP,,,,,,,,,,and reliable? Please,,,,,,,,,,,,,your wife would think you were running a 350 mag at idle and under 50 mph.:D
Lastly, to keep this back on track,,,,,,,,,,,,,There is a red/black 28 Bullet with a big carbon fiber scoop that will SPANK my pumpkin,,,,,,,,,,,,he is still getting used to the power, but he is out in Havasu all the time. His name is Steve and he loves the channel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,go say hi next time you see him.

[plaster dave]

Wait until you ride in the "Great Pumpkin", you will be speechless,,,,,,,trust me:D Also,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that new 5.0 Whipple is UNREAL!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have to say, with the new Whipple linkage design,,,,,,,,,,,,it is even smoother than running a 200ax! But when you start pushing the throttle forward,,,,,,,,,,,wow. The speed and performance is great,,,,,,,,,,,,but the smoothness is really shocking, seriously. It idles right at 850 out of gear and drops SMOOTHLY down to 740-750 rpms in gear. These new Whipple 5.0 efi's are it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BTW,,,,,,,,,,my longblock is the same longblock on an 848, just a little less compression. A guy could put this 5.0 SC on his 848(after he got used to the speed:D ) and it would be perfect at over 1000HP,,,,,,,,,,and reliable? Please,,,,,,,,,,,,,your wife would think you were running a 350 mag at idle and under 50 mph.:D
Lastly, to keep this back on track,,,,,,,,,,,,,There is a red/black 28 Bullet with a big carbon fiber scoop that will SPANK my pumpkin,,,,,,,,,,,,he is still getting used to the power, but he is out in Havasu all the time. His name is Steve and he loves the channel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,go say hi next time you see him.
I met you and Steve at Howard a few months ago. That boat is awesome.

[clearfork]

Hey Lavey 29,
I rode in your boat when it was in NC at Jones marine.Yes your boat was out here before it went back out there. I believe that it is a 03 model correct?
Well I didnt drive it but the owner of jones marine took me out and they are two different boats. But I cannot and will not say that my boat is better at anything than yours. They are two different boats styles. I enjoyed riding in your boat and if Brian would have played ball you probably wouldnt have it now.
All I will say....... i bought a howard. still wont say one way or the other, I think my boat could hang with anything your boat could, maybe not better but I could do it as well, promise.
Michael
I spent two hours in your boat, long before you did, nice ride.
One is an apple the other is an orange....

[Lavey29]

Hey Lavey 29,
I rode in your boat when it was in NC at Jones marine.Yes your boat was out here before it went back out there. I believe that it is a 03 model correct?
Well I didnt drive it but the owner of jones marine took me out and they are two different boats. But I cannot and will not say that my boat is better at anything than yours. They are two different boats styles. I enjoyed riding in your boat and if Brian would have played ball you probably wouldnt have it now.
All I will say....... i bought a howard. still wont say one way or the other, I think my boat could hang with anything your boat could, maybe not better but I could do it as well, promise.
I spent two hours in your boat, long before you did, nice ride.
One is an apple the other is an orange....
Yes you are right, I found it on the internet back there in NC. Brians father drove it out to cali for me and I bought it from him. Only 9hrs of demo time only on it. They built it as a showboat for their marine company and then fell into financial trouble. The only difference now is the motor been upgraded from 700 to 850. It's fun to brag back and forth about whose boat is better but the bottom line is they are both top quality and youa re right one boat might do some things better and the other boat will do other things better. I got a killer deal when I purchased from those guys in NC.

[ToMorrow44]

Wow there's been a lot of discussion in here. Basically as everyone else says it all comes down to personal preference and what is best for you. To say that the bullet is the fastest 28' hull period is a little optimistic though, you have to consider companies like Velocity (which I would bet is the fastest hull out there) and activator which is winning all of Factory 1 stuff. All these hulls are very efficient and do their own thing in a different way, like the Lavey Craft is fast but is also a rough water monster too. It is cool to see so much excitement in here about single engine V-bottoms though. Just face it, we all have badass boats. :D ;)
-Tom

[Lavey29]

Thanks for popping in Tom,,,we have had a big battle in here the last couple days.... the H boys tried to gang up on me....

[ToMorrow44]

Thanks for popping in Tom,,,we have had a big battle in here the last couple days.... the H boys tried to gang up on me....
Not to worry everyone's loyal to their own brands, but either way all these boats are great. And they're all built differently for different pruposes so it's hard to try to compare any of them and say which is the best. You looking into getting a TPI motor for your boat now?
-Tom

[Lavey29]

Actually the motor I have has like 80% the same parts that Gary already uses. I was thinking about converting from Blower shop/chiller combo to the Whipple set up for better engine manageability around the docks. Motor runs great but it lopes at idle 700-1100 and is stubborn when its cold first time starting...

[Toffen]

Hi!
Thanks for an interesting tread.
Me and my wife are looking for a new boat. I have been an avid fan of 28 Bullet closed bow for a long period, but then we saw the new Laveycraft EVO 28. It is two different boats, and we think both are great. We live in south Norway close to the North Sea. Although we have inshore areas, you have to cross the ocean now and then. 6 - 10 feet seas are common. Even 12-15 feet swells if the weather is tough on a summer day. So this discussion is interesting. Is 28 Bullet up for this?
An EVO 28 will run:
496Mag Ho 425 hp Bravo1 X. Speed 78-80Mph
525 EFI 500 HP Bravo 1 XR. Speed 85-88 Mph
600 Sci 600 HP Bravo 1 Xr Speed 90-92 Mph
625 Ilmor HP Bravo 1 Xr. Speed 90-93 Mph
700 Sci 700 HP NXT drive. Speed 95-98 Mph
If I am correct a Bullet 28 closed bow will run
496Mag Ho 425 hp Bravo1 X. Speed 69-70 Mph
525 EFI 500 HP Bravo 1 XR. Speed 77-80 Mph
600 Sci 600 HP Bravo 1 Xr Speed 83-86 Mph
What suprises me is that EVO 28 is considerable faster with the Mag HO and 525 EFI's. We will go for either 525 EFI or 600 Sci. :idea: :D
Cheeers! Toffen G

[Beer-30]

I would believe the Howard speeds, but not the Lavey speeds. I think they would be a little more even. A 496 just doesn't push a 28' boat that fast.
In a 25' stepped boat, it only goes 70 or so.
It would seem Lavey's speeds are reported from a light-layup race boat, or a WAY over propped 496 and about 5 miles of running distance.

[Toffen]

Hi!
I have checked some Powerboat Mag and Hot Boat Mag tests, and Howard 28 closed bow ran 89,4 mph with a Merc 600 Sci and a open bow ran 80 mph with a Merc 525 EFI. So Howards figures are conservative.
I am remember correct an EVO 28 testet by Powerrboat Mag ran approx. 88 mph with an 600 hp engine. I will check in my shelves.
How does an Howard run quartering and following seas. How does enter and reenter larges swells?
Cheeers and thanks, Toffen G:)

[Toffen]

Hi!
I have checked some Powerboat Mag and Hot Boat Mag tests, and Howard 28 closed bow ran 89,4 mph with a Merc 600 Sci and a open bow ran 80 mph with a Merc 525 EFI. So Howards figures are conservative.
I am remember correct an EVO 28 tested by Powerrboat Mag ran approx. 88 mph with an 600 hp engine. I will check in my shelves.
How does an Howard run quartering and following seas. How does enter and reenter larges swells?
Cheeers and thanks, Toffen G:)

[ToMorrow44]

If you're going to be running in seas that big, the Howard is not for you and I think most Howard owners will even admit that. The 28 evo may not even be big enough. Just beware that the 28 evo has no cabin and is a very light lay up and that is why the speeds are so high. I don't know if you care about a cabin or not but just something to think about. I would be tempted to lean more towards a 29 Lavey because they are big, bulky, heavy boats that take on the rough water better, but they're also pretty fast. Then again, Lavey's Super V boat kicked everyone's ass in the 10'ers in Puerto Rico and thats their 2750 hull. I'd be looking for the biggest, widest, heaviest boat to run in those conditions.
-Tom

[Lavey29]

Hi!
Thanks for an interesting tread.
Me and my wife are looking for a new boat. I have been an avid fan of 28 Bullet closed bow for a long period, but then we saw the new Laveycraft EVO 28. It is two different boats, and we think both are great. We live in south Norway close to the North Sea. Although we have inshore areas, you have to cross the ocean now and then. 6 - 10 feet seas are common. Even 12-15 feet swells if the weather is tough on a summer day. So this discussion is interesting. Is 28 Bullet up for this?
An EVO 28 will run:
496Mag Ho 425 hp Bravo1 X. Speed 78-80Mph
525 EFI 500 HP Bravo 1 XR. Speed 85-88 Mph
600 Sci 600 HP Bravo 1 Xr Speed 90-92 Mph
625 Ilmor HP Bravo 1 Xr. Speed 90-93 Mph
700 Sci 700 HP NXT drive. Speed 95-98 Mph
If I am correct a Bullet 28 closed bow will run
496Mag Ho 425 hp Bravo1 X. Speed 69-70 Mph
525 EFI 500 HP Bravo 1 XR. Speed 77-80 Mph
600 Sci 600 HP Bravo 1 Xr Speed 83-86 Mph
What suprises me is that EVO 28 is considerable faster with the Mag HO and 525 EFI's. We will go for either 525 EFI or 600 Sci. :idea: :D
Cheeers! Toffen G
Funny how are heated arguement over these boats went international. I think your speed numbers for the Lavey are a tad high. Laveycraft is a proven product capable of handling big water offshore. In the conditions you describe, I would go with as big a boat as I could afford. Typically always better to have 2 engines when running offshore but the new performance Mercs and Illmores are so reliable, you could go offshore with one. Tom is right, the EVO has no cabin but has good protection when running at speed due to the half canopy. Lavey are a solid well built ocean tested boat that you will not be dissapointed with. Howards are also a great well built boat but I do not think they would be the nest choice for the type of boating you do.

[Toffen]

Hi!
Thanks for your help.
We have lots of inshore areas. However, between the cities here south you have to go offshore. Most summer days the water is calm, but suddenly it will change. And then... We will travel to Calif in the autumn and take a look. Both boats looks fantastic. Laveycraft told me that the EVO 28 had a double berth, so a kind of cabin should be there.
Enclosed you will see a picture of the current boat we run; a 25 feet Phantom offshore hull with twin Merc 2.5 EFI's. As you see a friend of mine is happy to join for a trip
Cheeeers, Toffen G :)

[TPI]

Interesting speeds,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:idea:
I encourage all parties to drive the boat they want before purchase,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,even at the highest speed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or at least have the manufacturer take them for a speed run.:D Or the engine builder:D :D :D

[Toffen]

Hi!
Totally agree. So we look forward to some serious boating in October in Calif. :D
Cheeeers! Toffen G

[pixrthis]

Both of these boats are really well built and will serve their owners well. It would be nice to see them out on the race course to back up their opinions. If this would happen we would see that most boats have their day.
Activator in their 26 dominated for a couple years, the Phantom 30 shined for a time, and the Warlock 27 & 28 ruled for several years.
I think that if both brands raced for a season both would have trophies in the end but a lot has to do with conditions, crew, and equipment. All would need tabs to be competitve in the ocean because you don't pick the direction you want to run hard when your racing. If there's competition, the only way to win is staying on the gas when others are lifting Does it prove that the boats better or the crew? forget it go back to what you guys wre talking about.

[pixrthis]

Both of these boats are really well built and will serve their owners well. It would be nice to see them out on the race course to back up their opinions. If this would happen we would see that most boats have their day.
Activator in their 26 dominated for a couple years, the Phantom 30 shined for a time, and the Warlock 27 & 28 ruled for several years.
I think that if both brands raced for a season both would have trophies in the end but a lot has to do with conditions, crew, and equipment. All would need tabs to be competitve in the ocean because you don't pick the direction you want to run hard when your racing. If there's competition, the only way to win is staying on the gas when others are lifting Does it prove that the boats better or the crew? forget it go back to what you guys wre talking about.

[Lavey29]

Hi!
Totally agree. So we look forward to some serious boating in October in Calif. :D
Cheeeers! Toffen G
Good idea to come out and water test the boats and look at the rigging process. The EVO has no cabin but the 2750 does. They are the same boats just the EVO has the half canopy poker run top. May be a little lighter also. I am sure if you wanted, Lavey would demo a boat offshore in the ocean with you but I kind of doubt that Howard will do that type of water test. They may but I would bet money they will probably not do it. I am not sure why but as you have read through this thread, I have my opinion. Good luck in your boat search. You can not go wrong with either model. They are both top quality.

[It's Only Money]

Hi!
Thanks for an interesting tread.
Me and my wife are looking for a new boat. I have been an avid fan of 28 Bullet closed bow for a long period, but then we saw the new Laveycraft EVO 28. It is two different boats, and we think both are great. We live in south Norway close to the North Sea. Although we have inshore areas, you have to cross the ocean now and then. 6 - 10 feet seas are common. Even 12-15 feet swells if the weather is tough on a summer day. So this discussion is interesting. Is 28 Bullet up for this?
An EVO 28 will run:
496Mag Ho 425 hp Bravo1 X. Speed 78-80Mph
525 EFI 500 HP Bravo 1 XR. Speed 85-88 Mph
600 Sci 600 HP Bravo 1 Xr Speed 90-92 Mph
625 Ilmor HP Bravo 1 Xr. Speed 90-93 Mph
700 Sci 700 HP NXT drive. Speed 95-98 Mph
If I am correct a Bullet 28 closed bow will run
496Mag Ho 425 hp Bravo1 X. Speed 69-70 Mph
525 EFI 500 HP Bravo 1 XR. Speed 77-80 Mph
600 Sci 600 HP Bravo 1 Xr Speed 83-86 Mph
What suprises me is that EVO 28 is considerable faster with the Mag HO and 525 EFI's. We will go for either 525 EFI or 600 Sci. :idea: :D
Cheeers! Toffen G
Good luck getting those speeds from the Lavey. Overly optomistic would be the exact words I'd use.

[It's Only Money]

Somehow I seem to remember a Hot Boat Editorial a few years ago about a test boat that the manufacturer brought to the trials that scared the test drivers so much that they wouldn't report on it and gave the manufacturer a chance to alter the hull and retest. Rumor (I said rumor) had it that it was a Lavey - allegedly the 2750. It has been also written several times in boating publications that the Laveys are a "handful" and not for unseasoned drivers. Having ridden in several different Howards, Hallets and other boats this size (and not the Laveys) I can attest that both the Hallet and the Howard are very stable, easy to drive and very fast.
The numbers have been published and I can't remember when there has been a faster single engine from ANY builder that tested faster than the Howard 28 Bullet. Period.
If you are not offshore and racing then who truly cares what the the Lavey does? Does whether or no a builder decides to promote offshore racing make a bit of difference? NOT! This thread was a commentary on the recent Powerboat trials and awards in this month's issue. The Lavey lovers jump in here and spout the same old diatribe - "Does Howard race and why not?" Frankly you weren't asked and who cares. Enjoy your boats.
As to why the deck boat was put in the list I first published...because it was reportedly the same weight as the others and was so dog slow - must be a misprint as I can't imagine their numbers were right.

[clearfork]

I like cherry koolaid, it matches my boat.
But I can tell someone has been drinking alot of koolaid as well.
I remember the article that Powerboat put out with the 29 with twin 525's.
Read that one, then make up your mind.
Not a flattering article.
One other question: How many of us take our boat offshore?
I am way too proud of Gary Taylor's engine to put it in salt water. Not gonna happen.
I still say, doesnt mean i couldnt. I have been in both boats.
Still learning about mine, but I have seen a man who can make the boat walk on water.
What it boils down to, until you Lavey gentlemen have ridden in a bullet, you cannot say one way or the other.
I have ridden in both boats. One driven by a man who raced them for one season (lavey, l29's to be exact), and the other I have owned for two years.(bullet)
I still say you put equal power,layup, setup in the same boats.
Open water or lake, it depends solely on the driver.
Gonna get my rubber boots on, the plot thickens............

[Lavey29]

Lavey's that are set up to run fast are for seasoned boaters just as any other hopped up boat should be. You don't see a novice driver jump right into a Ferrari and take it to top speed. Clearfork has the best experience here because he has driven and tested both models and it sounds like he is taking a neutral position giving both boats high marks although he currently owns a Howard it appears. I have run my boat up to 99mph in 105 degrees with 3/4 tank and all my crap on board. Probably had another 3 mph in it if I was running light on a cool day. Rock steady, full hydraulic steering to the helm helps also. Teague tested my boat at 95mph on a windy day and said with the 5 blade it was solid and smooth. In certain water conditions, Howards are very fast. The guy from Norway was talking about 10' swells to go through to get to his boating spots. Lavey has been tested in big water and blew everything else away on the race course. Howard has never been in water like that and I doubt one ever will be unless someone is looking for an insurance pay off. They are both good boats, just a matter of opinion, cosmetic appeal and who gives you the best deal for your money.

[Lavey29]

The numbers have been published and I can't remember when there has been a faster single engine from ANY builder that tested faster than the Howard 28 Bullet. Period. (quote)
I only wish I could afford to drop a new 1150HP TPI motor in mine. The only way to ever really settle this dispute is to have both boats and any other similar size boat that wants to join set up with the exact same factory (525,600,625,,,etc..) motors and test them with the same driver(s). They would have to run all of them the same day, same temps, on various water conditions. The boats should all use the same drive but prop and X dimension would be preferential. This would give us some exact numbers on the performace of the different boats with the same HP.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Lavey has been tested in big water and blew everything else away on the race course. Howard has never been in water like that and I doubt one ever will be unless someone is looking for an insurance pay off.
You like your Lavey, which is cool. But how do you know what water a Howard has been in? That's right, you don't. To imply that the only way that a Howard would see big water is if an owner were to file an insurance claim, a criminal act, is a slap in the face of all Howard owners which speaks volumes about your arrogance and ignorance.

[Lavey29]

You like your Lavey, which is cool. But how do you know what water a Howard has been in? That's right, you don't. To imply that the only way that a Howard would see big water is if an owner were to file an insurance claim, a criminal act, is a slap in the face of all Howard owners which speaks volumes about your arrogance and ignorance.
You need to take the time to read the thread. I make repeated reference that Howard is a great product that anyone would love to own. I encourage anyone around the world that reads this website and owns a Howard to chime in and lets us know how their boat handles big swells offshore. I think we might be waiting a long time for a response. Howard builds a great LAKE boat. Maybe the new 35 will be a LAKE/OCEAN boat. Time will tell. If you took a 28' Howard into the ocean with 10' swells like that guy from Norway described, you better make sure your insurance policy is current because you MAY need to make a claim. Also, to enlighten and educate you, it is only a criminal act if you intentionally sink yuor boat to file a claim. If you are misguided and think your boat (insert "Howard") can handle 10' swells offshore and something bad happens then it is not a criminal act. Well, I take that back, you may be guilty of stupidity but thats it.

[kap]

Sorry Lavey29:
I left you to fend for yourself with the Howard zealots. Actually was on the water with my family. I did not realize this thread would explode with such enthusiasm.
Were the Hell is KCooper when we need him???? He can educate the pleasure boaters about the fine art of trim tabs at high speeds. He is probably on Offshoreonly forum:idea:.
________________
It's Only Money----- asked about the efficiency of the Bullet hull. I believe he is on to something--- the Howard hull is very slippery and posts outstanding numbers in most test trials. I have some information the Howard 35 twin will also be in the same league of efficiency.
That being said;
In a race format--- the hull and manufacturer are untested---Anyone can race in the P-1 category with not a lot of money [relative to F-1 Class] and you do not need the consent of the manufacturer---you can be Team Bayliner if you want so long as it is a production boat.
_______________
Some big baller with cash should pioneer a Howard entry into the offshore forum if the hull is as efficient as I think it is. The Howard entry will have an advantage provided the driver/TM knows what they are doing.
[Which no talked about ie... driver+throttleman with seat time can make a toon win races---well almost-- but it is a HUGE factor in who consistently wins races]
_______________
The Lavey vs. Howard is all speculation and conjecture. What I really want to see is either some racing or a Consumer Reports version of times and speeds for the Howard V-Hull's.
_______________
TPI:
Almost,,,,forgot Gary---- the "Shootout" at Lake of the Ozarks was won by a Lavey for fastest V-bottom with twins (V-2 class). Which is were I think you or Steve should attend this event with the Bullets and see what you come away with. We are anticipating going to this event and will be bringing an entry but our new Howard is due out at that time so we might not make it.
It is awesome event with big East Coast hardware which always underestimates the West Coast entries. Just a thought :D :D , plus winning a title goes a long way for the non-believers.
You'll like this---- all proceeds benefit local firefighters and lake rescue crews. Check the details on their website. IMO it is a perfect testing area for the Bullet or Lavey or what ever you bring.
KAP
P.S. Remember you ain't {blank} unless you come home with the hardware :D :D .

[Lavey29]

Thanks for coming in KAP. I think it was 4 Howards versus 1 Lavey so it was an even fight...good points you bring up that I did not think of either. I have never seen or read about a Howard boat at any of those shoot out speed trial events. From what I know, it is just straight line single boat racing for top speed on smooth water. Sounds like an ideal place to showcase the efficiency of the Howard bottom. I wonder why I have never read about one in the top 3??? Maybe there were some entered but they did not finish near the top??? Of Course this is only arrogant speculation on my part but it does make you wonder... :idea:

[little rowe boat]

You need to take the time to read the thread. I make repeated reference that Howard is a great product that anyone would love to own. I encourage anyone around the world that reads this website and owns a Howard to chime in and lets us know how their boat handles big swells offshore. I think we might be waiting a long time for a response. Howard builds a great LAKE boat. Maybe the new 35 will be a LAKE/OCEAN boat. Time will tell. If you took a 28' Howard into the ocean with 10' swells like that guy from Norway described, you better make sure your insurance policy is current because you MAY need to make a claim. Also, to enlighten and educate you, it is only a criminal act if you intentionally sink yuor boat to file a claim. If you are misguided and think your boat (insert "Howard") can handle 10' swells offshore and something bad happens then it is not a criminal act. Well, I take that back, you may be guilty of stupidity but thats it.
I have been reading through this thread and it is obvious that each owner is proud of their respective boats. To me stupidity is assuming something that you don't really know. You are assuming that a Howard will not handle 10' swells, but do you have any first hand info.that will support that statement?
It's funny, you assume that a Howard is nothing but a great LAKE boat. I have seen the 22' and spoken with people that have made the run from Long beach to catalina and back. The 22' handles rough water well, so I would imagine the 28' would be quite a bit better in rough water.

[kap]

Lavey 29
The Shootout is a great event were anyone can show up and via for the title of TOPGUN in their class or overall. Last year the Callan Marine Team showed up with their turbine powered entry and smoked the field.
Yes! the water can be flat but as we all know a small chop is ideal for aerating the V-Hull to acheive maximum ventilation and gaining speed.
I hear the biggest problem at the Shootout was the radar guns and reading the speeds accurately due to the boats not hitting the beams properly. The big boys put that plate with the radar absorbing material up front to get better readings.
Seriously, though that Lake Shootout would be a blast with Gary's boat and Steve's boat. It is sorta like bringing a defacto back up boat in case of problems to either boat. I'll wait for Gary to reply see if he is up for cause,
I was on the Lavey that won the shootout when he came up to Havasu. Awesome boat, a total sleeper until you look under the hatch. Then you say Woaaaa!
4 to 1 odds thats good odds on any race day :D :D .
KAP
Lavey for life that is until the new Howard is baptized :D :D .

[Lavey29]

I have been reading through this thread and it is obvious that each owner is proud of their respective boats. To me stupidity is assuming something that you don't really know. You are assuming that a Howard will not handle 10' swells, but do you have any first hand info.that will support that statement?
It's funny, you assume that a Howard is nothing but a great LAKE boat. I have seen the 22' and spoken with people that have made the run from Long beach to catalina and back. The 22' handles rough water well, so I would imagine the 28' would be quite a bit better in rough water.
If you have been reading the thread then you need to pay closer attention. Throughout the thread, in multiple spots, I make the statement that I do not know this area of contention to be fact but it is my opinion. I also state that my opinion is based on what I read, what I have heard, etc...Can someone, anyone post a real nice pic of a Howard flying off an 8' swell in the ocean. I'd like to check out that efficient bottom. Doesn't have to be a race boat of course. I am sure someone on here has a bitchen pic of a 28 Bullet full out of the water flying off that big swell ready to hit the next one. Shit, put it up and I will make it my screen saver for a month and stop talking smack....While the H boyz are scratching their heads on this one, I will go put up a few Lavey shots for you...

[Lavey29]

Lavey 29
The Shootout is a great event were anyone can show up and via for the title of TOPGUN in their class or overall. Last year the Callan Marine Team showed up with their turbine powered entry and smoked the field.
Yes! the water can be flat but as we all know a small chop is ideal for aerating the V-Hull to acheive maximum ventilation and gaining speed.
I hear the biggest problem at the Shootout was the radar guns and reading the speeds accurately due to the boats not hitting the beams properly. The big boys put that plate with the radar absorbing material up front to get better readings.
Seriously, though that Lake Shootout would be a blast with Gary's boat and Steve's boat. It is sorta like bringing a defacto back up boat in case of problems to either boat. I'll wait for Gary to reply see if he is up for cause,
I was on the Lavey that won the shootout when he came up to Havasu. Awesome boat, a total sleeper until you look under the hatch. Then you say Woaaaa!
4 to 1 odds thats good odds on any race day :D :D .
KAP
Lavey for life that is until the new Howard is baptized :D :D .
I'd like to check out that event also. It would be cool to see Gary's boat going head to head with some of the other big single engine V's out there. Which Lavey was that one that won the event? What did he have for power?.

[Lavey29]

This is what Lavey owners consider when they make their purchase. A great looking boat with an efficient fast bottom that can handle anything and everything as far as water conditions. Show me a nice pic of that Bullet flying off big swells like this....

[djunkie]

It's funny, you assume that a Howard is nothing but a great LAKE boat. I have seen the 22' and spoken with people that have made the run from Long beach to catalina and back. The 22' handles rough water well, so I would imagine the 28' would be quite a bit better in rough water.
I've done that in my 23' Howard as well which has less freeboard then the 22'. And it did awesome in the 3-4' swells that we hit on the way back. :D

[TPI]

I think a run to Lake of the Ozarks with the orange 28 Bullet will be in the cards,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,seriously.:D

[clearfork]

Hey Guys,
If gary cannot bring the big orange terror, I will lend him my boat and pay for his ticket to fly east. I have been trying to get hiim to come east anyway.
There I said it, if he wants it I will offer my boat.
Not quite as fast as his or steve's boat ,but with the race gas/pulley setup I think the red barron can post some decent numbers.
Maybe my little lake boat will be okay and I wont have to call my insurance guy.
Like I said before again and again, same boat, same layup, (canopy,light lay) same hp, i believe you could put a howard right next to the Lavey. IN THE OCEAN, and fare just as well. I also garantee that the layman is at home with his wife in bed when the 10' swells are out.
I would also like L29 to post some pictures of his boat in anything close to what we are talking about. Let's see some pics of your ride with some air.
lavey 29 if somebody wont let you ride in their bullet, please let me know.
I will make an effort to find you a way eastbound where you can ride in my boat. We will go down to the river and try to find a decent barge wave.
That is about all I can offer you, a nice sandwhich a coke and a LAKE ride.
But If we find that barge wave i have seen some as large as 5-10 deep.
Ride in the boat, do not depend on the opinions of others. (ie Kevin cooper).
Who I agree is a great driver, i saw him in action last year in orange beach.
He drove it like he stole it. Definetely can drive a boat. Or in this case throttle a boat.
But we both know, that is not a standard layup boat, and the canopy system allows your ball size to grow five numbers, the trim tabs on that boat make it a 30' boat. the Lavey is a great boat, just dont count the Bullet out.
There is another boat that I would say is simular to the bullet although slightly larger, the 29 fountain. I have been in 5-7 swells in West Palm Fl.
You will have to agree they are different but the same degree/type of bottom. this boat had a 575 merc in it with a super chiller.
So probably a 600 pshp boat. It handled everything we threw at it all day long. I was bruised and worn out but the 22.5 bottom did fine. The gunnels are about the same height but the fountain has a larger transom. But I believe thay are simular in length if you take away the beak.
Now , on another note, when I bought my boat Gene Willen spoke of a gentleman who was running his bullet in the ocean. I am not familar with who but some of you guys that are out that direction and talk with Gene more than I do can find out. From what i understand it did well.
Enough said,
Lavey29, I am not picking on you sir, I fully agree with your decision to buy that boat. Like I said I tried to buy it myself. It is a sweet ride and I loved that Gelcoat paintscheme, truely a work of art. But like I said apples and oranges. But they are both Great boats.
L29
The offer stands, a sandwhich, a coke (or the beverage of your choice) and a barge wake. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Gar Taylor let me know if you are coming eastbound.
I will gather my friends and we will give you a cheering section along the bank. It would be nice to let some of the east coast manufacturs and engine builders see what the other side can do.
I have not been but I have had friend who have here locally and from what I understand it is our equivalent of the superbowl.
MP

[92562]

Spoken like a gentleman!!!:D
Glad you kept the boat Michael.
-----Rob

[Lavey29]

I think a run to Lake of the Ozarks with the orange 28 Bullet will be in the cards,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,seriously.:D
Firemen get all the time in the world away from work to make trips with their boats. The other public servants (me) are stuck working 70hrs a week. :D I hope you get to go back their Gary and showcase your motor work along with your boat.

[Lavey29]

Thanks for the Tennessee hospitality Clearfork...If my wife gives me the green light and I can get off work I'll roll. You got some good BBQ back there right? We have argued this point long enough. Everyone is proud of their boats and the long history of quality from both manufacturers. Lets try argiung something else now... :D

[kap]

Clearfork:
That is a great offer food and boating were do we sign up :) . Better yet can we get that delivered to the event it would be fun to show up with an entourage of boats.
Seriously, I wanted to attend the shootout with our new Howard and post some speed numbers in the P-2P class. Unfortunately, I do not believe the boat will be ready and I would have very little seat time as a driver to justify the expense and time committment to such an event.
It would be nice to get a group of boaters w/families and make the trip to the Shootout and have several entries. A thought for those that may not have considered this----it is a family event and could be summer vacation coupled with competitive fun :) :) .
Lavey29:
The Lavey that won the shootout was loaded with a pair of Teague 900's. Shauna C knows who it is--- he won the boater of the year award from Lavey last year at the Regatta.
.......................................
As for lending Gary your boat [great offer] however, I highly doubt he would go all the way to Missouri and not bring his ride---I sure wouldn't!!!!
Like I said it would be great to see the Bullets run some speed numbers through the traps.
KAP

[clearfork]

yep,
The only reason that I offered my boat to gary, was the time and effort from Nebury park to MO. Performance wise he has the boat that really would need to go to the run. I only offered if he thought he would need something to utilize. he would feel like the anchor is still attached driving my boat.
It is a 10 hour drive for me and a real tough 3-4 day trip for him.
I have made the trip to CA two times in the last six months by car.
First time 6 days, second was 7. It is a loooooooooooong trip.
I got to see some beautiful country though, it is a different world you guys have out there. Absolutely stunning at times.
As for the food and a free ride, I am always looking for boating buddies.
If you are in the area feel free, I am always looking for an excuse to get the boat out. Gas , milk, and BBQ on me. Yes TN BBQ is where it is at. A few things we exel here in the south, If you saw me you would understand.
We eat well here..............sweet tea and all.............
L29 I have a buddy pass, you let me know,
KAP,
Like I said if you are in the neighborhood.............
I think Gary is out on his boat, it may take a minute to chime in........
Gary, plan a trip............Im in.............MP

[Lavey29]

The only thing I wouldn't want to see Clearfork is that twister in your avatar while we floatin and arguing about boat stuff over some coldies... :D

[little rowe boat]

I've done that in my 23' Howard as well which has less freeboard then the 22'. And it did awesome in the 3-4' swells that we hit on the way back. :D
It's funny, because when I purchased the boat, Gene Willen told me that the only way I would ever see my boat perform to it's capability would be to run it in the ocean.
I have never run into anything on Havasu that it can't handle.

[u4ea32]

The Howard 28 certainly seems to be the fastest single engine V...
... in water that you would want to run 100+ without a canopy.
The Lavey has proven itself in very heavy water, winning at Puerto Rico last year. That was big water!
So the results -- not the emotional bragging -- seems to indicate that its a Howard 28 if you want to boogie without a canopy, and a Lavey if you like canopy and BIG WATER. And you only want a single engine.
Which I can relate to by the way. I am very tempted to get another single engine boat with these gas prices!!!
However, if you really want to go really fast, really efficiently in big water or smooth water, there is only one choice: a Fountain.
Take a look at the speeds in the OSS and APBA/SBI races over the last few years, and its amazing how much faster Fountains are with the same power as other similar sized boats.
Lavey does not race head to head with Fountain, and as we all know, neither does Howard.
But compare the speeds of Fountains against other boats with the same power. Its quite remarkable in general. There are many Fountains that do over 110 with only 1050 hp. Pick up the phone, call Fountain, tell them you want to break 110 with 1050 hp, and they can deliver you the boat, no problem. In fact, today, for $129K!!!
And if you want to really put the power down and get stupid numbers, you can do it in a Fountain.
I own a Fountain, but I don't work for them in any way.

[Panic Button]

The numbers have been published and I can't remember when there has been a faster single engine from ANY builder that tested faster than the Howard 28 Bullet. Period.
The Velocity VR1 (28'6") ran 80.95 mph with an Innovation built 425 HP Engine. Now throw another 200-300HP in it, and it would have broke 100-110mph for sure...

[ToMorrow44]

The Velocity VR1 (28'6") ran 80.95 mph with an Innovation built 425 HP Engine. Now throw another 200-300HP in it, and it would have broke 100-110mph for sure...
I mentioned that Velocity's are fast in an earlier post and nobody listened. I think it's absolutely remarkable how fast Velocity's go and doing it without any steps. And while there have been none tested with big power, check out OSO and I've read some people running 850-900hp in a 26 or 28 Velocity breaking 110mph.
But compare the speeds of Fountains against other boats with the same power. Its quite remarkable in general. There are many Fountains that do over 110 with only 1050 hp. Pick up the phone, call Fountain, tell them you want to break 110 with 1050 hp, and they can deliver you the boat, no problem. In fact, today, for $129K!!!
Where can I find this boat? Don't tell me thats a price for a new one from the factory with 1050hp. I would think you would be on the plus side of $150K to do that right but I don't know for sure.

[clearfork]

The Velocity VR1 (28'6") ran 80.95 mph with an Innovation built 425 HP Engine. Now throw another 200-300HP in it, and it would have broke 100-110mph for sure...
Well if you do the numbers, you will need more than 700 hp to go above 100.
The velocity is a straight bottom with a pad, no steps.
I understand that it is an efficent hull, but that next 20-30 mph you speak of will take a whole lot more hp. It is not a linear graph, I would compare it to an airplane. Fluid dynamics are very simular. Weight, drag, and thrust, the prop looses alot of efficency. etc etc and so on.....
As for the fountains, A smart man would take one of their bottoms, splash it (illegal) and put a custom deck on the top with that west coast flair. the new fountains that are coming out are getting closer to what a custom boat has in it. I was impressed with some of their offerings that have come out with lately. But they like everyone else, are real proud of that gel. they are a bit pricey as of late......MP

[TPI]

The Velocity VR1 (28'6") ran 80.95 mph with an Innovation built 425 HP Engine. Now throw another 200-300HP in it, and it would have broke 100-110mph for sure...
or it would have chine walked so out of control no one could drive it.......................There are a bunch of boats out there that can handle 80-85 mph without getting weird,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,send it up to 100+ and look out. An honest owner will tell you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its a handful over 100,,,,
Anyone can fly a boat up to a number and get out of the throttle,,,,,,,,,,,before they go on their head. Try running a 110 plus for minutes without a bobble,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,handling and speed go hand in hand. Whay has no other manufacturer(other than Activator) brought on out to have it tested by Powerboat. Let someone else drive it and see what they think.............

[kap]

Gary
I dont believe the Velocity would chine walk just do not think it would hit the triple digits [at least not without 1050HP+].
Boats with flat pads on the rear portion do not typically chine walk. Chine walking is when the boat is moving along on the v portion rear hull and the boat has no surface area other than the v touching the water due to high speed. This causes the boat to tip side to side---whereas a flat pad gives a boat stability but it rides real wet and thus has more drag on the water.
Also trim tabs lengthen the boat and give it stability to prevent chine walking at speed. Velocity might be a good candidate versus the Bullet with TPI power in both :D .
Previously, mentioned was the Fountain boats I must agree with those members that posted this is the boat to beat. The proof is evident everytime they race-----Fountain has dialed in their hulls with power, propulsion, and handling.
No arguments their---so Bullet versus Fountain Hmmmmmm! I like that bout---sounds like a pay per view event.
KAP

[TPI]

Kap,
How many 26-30' single engine vee bottom stern drives have you driven or been in with over 1000hp with or without pads?:D I have driven and been in a bunch, and EVERY one that had a pad in the back got so loose neer 100 mph, I thought I was going to die if I(or the driver) stayed in the throttle. Trust me, when it falls off the pad(and it will) yee hah!!!!!!!!!!!! Its just not a good set up for real high speeds.......................around 80ish and under power its fine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but 100+ and maintaining high speeds,,,,,,,,,IMO,,,,no thanks. Once again just my opinion, based on my personal experience.:D

[MrBeam]

To break 100 in a 26' (280) or VR1 Velocity you would need 1000hp or close to it. My friend has one that runs 110+ without tabs and the boat seems very stable to be running that kind of speed. I've never driven at those speeds so I cannot attest to the feel but I think it would have to feel "loose". I've never ridden in a Velocity that chine walked but then I've never ridden in a 320 and they have a rep for walking.
I read somewhere that 100+ in a single engine V is not everyone's idea of fun.
Kevin

[TPI]

To break 100 in a 26' (280) or VR1 Velocity you would need 1000hp or close to it. My friend has one that runs 110+ without tabs and the boat seems very stable to be running that kind of speed. I've never driven at those speeds so I cannot attest to the feel but I think it would have to feel "loose". I've never ridden in a Velocity that chine walked but then I've never ridden in a 320 and they have a rep for walking.
I read somewhere that 100+ in a single engine V is not everyone's idea of fun.
Kevin
I love that last quote.......................that is so true:D
If it means anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,everyone that has been in a 28 Bullet with me over 100 mph, seemed to have a good time:D
All of this stuff just makes for good conversation and bantering,,,,,,,:idea:

[ToMorrow44]

To get most single engine V bottoms over 100 is going to be loose. "Loose is fast" Water is like 300-400 times more dense than air so there is a lot of friction there and to go fast you have to get the boat out of the water to break that friction. I don't care what single engine V bottom you're in, it is going to feel loose if you approach or break 100. Hell mine feels loose when it gets up around 85 (but I have a slow boat).
-Tom

[MrBeam]

I currently have a Velocity 290 with 525 power and the boat will run 80. I like the boat and the numbers but I have to say that the Howard wins in the looks department. I have never seen one in person but I love their looks in the mags.
Next time I'm in Havasu I am going to try and bum a ride in one.
Kevin

[kap]

TPI wrote:
How many 26-30' single engine vee bottom stern drives have you driven or been in with over 1000hp with or without pads
Well if the offer is still open I know of two potential candidates---one is orange and one is red that I should go out on---- and make a believers out of everyone:D :D . I guess I haven't bagged on you hard enough to get that offer :) :) :) . Well thats not true MP offered lunch and coke of which I will no doubt take him up on it.
Honestly, the fastest boats I've been in or driven have all been Outboards. Furthermore, the speeds we are discussing are not taken casually by me anything over 90 is hella fast----one mistake or oversteer and it's over. Average speeds in OSS racing F-1 are no where near 90 much less over a 100mph. So at a sustained 100mph you better have your "A" game going and be on red alert.
So now again I ask the question?? Bullet versus Fountain
Gary whata ya think I have been aboard a fountain and it rides like a dream. Where are all the Fountain people who can give us first hand info.
KAP
P.S. I enjoy the discussion on this topic--- far more interesting than working:D :D

[92562]

No arguments their---so Bullet versus Fountain Hmmmmmm! I like that bout---sounds like a pay per view event.
KAP
I'd watch! I've never driven mine over 100 (I have a slow boat like ToMorrow44) but it is quite stable at 85+. I have driven a 29 Fountain over 90 (but not 100) and it chine walked badly, for me and for the owner. After that I bought my Howard. I have been in the big orange boat and honestly, if you didn't look at the speedo yourself, you just wouldn't believe how fast you are going. It was a sloppy afternoon in Havasu when I went for a ride with Gary but the boat was rock solid, for a few minutes above 100. Gary brought up another good point, why hasn't Lavey, Velocity, etc. brought a 26-30 single engine V with 1000+HP for testing? (Other than Activator) I realize not everyone boats in that fashion but for me, it was the testing of Gary's old Bullet (the 25) that showed me just how stable the Howard is with big power and ultimately helped me make my decision to purchase. Did I intend to go over 100 at the time, no. Will I in the future? I know the boat can handle it, I'm just waiting for the driver's "pair" of confidence to get bigger.:D
Great thread!!!! Much better than work!!!!
----Rob

[TPI]

I will wait to see the Fountain 35 vs the Howard 35. I just want the B35 Bullet to have staggered motors,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that will be a good set up!
BTW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the Howard 28 Bullet is NOT loose over 100 mph:D

[Lavey29]

I'd watch! I've never driven mine over 100 (I have a slow boat like ToMorrow44) but it is quite stable at 85+. I have driven a 29 Fountain over 90 (but not 100) and it chine walked badly, for me and for the owner. After that I bought my Howard. I have been in the big orange boat and honestly, if you didn't look at the speedo yourself, you just wouldn't believe how fast you are going. It was a sloppy afternoon in Havasu when I went for a ride with Gary but the boat was rock solid, for a few minutes above 100. Gary brought up another good point, why hasn't Lavey, Velocity, etc. brought a 26-30 single engine V with 1000+HP for testing? (Other than Activator) I realize not everyone boats in that fashion but for me, it was the testing of Gary's old Bullet (the 25) that showed me just how stable the Howard is with big power and ultimately helped me make my decision to purchase. Did I intend to go over 100 at the time, no. Will I in the future? I know the boat can handle it, I'm just waiting for the driver's "pair" of confidence to get bigger.:D
Great thread!!!! Much better than work!!!!
----Rob
Rob, I am sure we all can agree that a single engine V bottom with over 1000hp is not the best choice for practical boating. The insurance alone is ridiculous and the maintanance involved on the motor and drive to keep things running. Not everyone can pull their motors apart as easily as Gary can and check things as needed or if something breaks. I would love for someone to loan me a 1000 HP or more motor for my boat so I could see how it handles well above 100. I have ran it up to 99 and would probably get a few more miles out of it in cool temp and light load. I run about 850hp range. My boat is rock steady at those speeds. Why doesn't the builder(s) bring a tricked out boat for testing? Well, I can only imagine that they would have a hard time selling it after they demo it unless they swap out the motor and then they are stuck witha high dollar motor. Velocity boats hold speed records from years back. I am sure their boat can still move but I am not that familiar with them.

[Lavey29]

I will wait to see the Fountain 35 vs the Howard 35. I just want the B35 Bullet to have staggered motors,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that will be a good set up!
BTW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the Howard 28 Bullet is NOT loose over 100 mph:D
I think you would have to throw the 32 Lavey in that group also which is the fastest accellerating boat ever tested by the mags with the twin 800's. The Lavey that won that to speed shootout described before in this thread as twin 900's. I would be curious to know what boats it competed against.

[TPI]

99 mph with 850 hp and rock solid in lavey 29?..................Then I guess you have a better and more efficient boat than a 28 Bullet, because It takes 935+ hp for the 28 Bullet to hit 100 mph and maintain it in warm weather. I did run 98.7 mph in my 28 Bullet with my TPI 848 motor during testing, but it weighs 4200 lbs.

[clearfork]

It is my understanding that most of the boats that show up for testing are usually customer's boats.
You are right, not many manufacturers have 50-60 a pop for these highly detailed engines.
So I would say when you see one, usually it is a boat that has been purchased and the owner likes to see his boat in a magazine or the company gives him some type of incentive to do so.
I doubt you would see to many unsold boats getting hammered by bob and the boys.....But I could be wrong too........
maybe its pocket change for some.............

[clearfork]

Where have I seen that number before??
935?
Love the widow.
Thanks Gary.
MP

[TPI]

It is my understanding that most of the boats that show up for testing are usually customer's boats.
You are right, not many manufacturers have 50-60 a pop for these highly detailed engines.
So I would say when you see one, usually it is a boat that has been purchased and the owner likes to see his boat in a magazine or the company gives him some type of incentive to do so.
I doubt you would see to many unsold boats getting hammered by bob and the boys.....But I could be wrong too........
maybe its pocket change for some.............
True(regarding the boats). All of the high end boats I have seen being tested with custom motors are customers new boats. It would definately be tough for a manufacturer to lay out all of that money on a "stock" boat.
MP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I like that motor of yours too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Get some seat time,,,,,,,,,,,I think we might be bringing the big orange 28 to Lake of the Ozarks next year. I think Steve will bring his fast 28 too. You should meet us over there with yours:D ! I wonder what class I would run in? I don't know much about it................................................

[92562]

Why doesn't the builder(s) bring a tricked out boat for testing? Well, I can only imagine that they would have a hard time selling it after they demo it unless they swap out the motor and then they are stuck witha high dollar motor.
I can't speak for other builders but Howard doesn't build boats for magazines to test (or for the showroom for that matter, it's tiny). Instead they ask happy owners if their boats can be used. Mine was in the Oct. '06 "open bow" issue of HB (prior to the Whipple) and it had a full tank of gas and all my shizz on board (skis, tools, etc) when they tested it. Howard has a great advatage in that Gary loves Howards and builds them with big, reliable power, then lets the magazines thrash them. Because of that, Howard tends to sell a high percentage of "big power" boats. People know that the combination is tested and reliable. If 1100HP works then 700, 850, 950, etc will be well within the safety zone.
A test of several hulls with more than 1000HP would sell a lot of magazines. We'd all love to see 5 or 6 builders show up and have their own "shoot out". Instead, I think I'll buy my ticket to see the orange boat run the Lake Rescue Shoot out. That event looks like a blast!
Are ya goin' Gary?
-----Rob

[92562]

I think we might be bringing the big orange 28 to Lake of the Ozarks next year. I think Steve will bring his fast 28 too.
Sweeet!

[kap]

TPI wrote:
I did run 98.7 mph in my 28 Bullet with my TPI 848 motor during testing, but it weighs 4200 lbs.
I love those numbers hope they translate well into what we are putting it into:D :D .
Our family will definitely be at the Shootout next year this year seems like to much of a tight squeeze. I want to smoke a certain class at the shootout---not the V-Bottom. Already, told GW about it and want to make it a reality.
Plus, having our motorbuilder close by is a definite plus:D :D :D
___________________________
Clearfork:
You definitely are a gentleman hope to make your acquiantance soon.
___________________________
Lavey 29:
Forget the 32 bring your ride and have fun--- or by 2008 you can buy a TPI motor and really blur your vision.
KAP

[Lavey29]

99 mph with 850 hp and rock solid in lavey 29?..................Then I guess you have a better and more efficient boat than a 28 Bullet, because It takes 935+ hp for the 28 Bullet to hit 100 mph and maintain it in warm weather. I did run 98.7 mph in my 28 Bullet with my TPI 848 motor during testing, but it weighs 4200 lbs.
I have been telling everyone Laveys are a cut above... :D My HP is an estimate. I had an Eickert 540/675hp motor which Steve Arent told me actually put out around 720hp on the dyno. It was running 3lbs of boost through 871. I had Teague add a chiller and bumped the boost up to 7psi. I estimate that gave me about 850hp non dyno test. Teague water tested it for me and found the 5 blade Hydromotive to work best overall. He ran it up to 95 on his water test during a windy day at 5600rpm. Motor is set for 6100rpm limit. Bob told me there was more speed in it and estimated 100. I have nudged 99 at 5900rpm on perfect water according to GPS speedo. I was getting like 19% slippage with the 4 blade and I think I get like 10% with the 5 blade.

[TPI]

That Hydromotive P5x has really "tamed down" some vee bottoms at high speeds. More people with 24 degree bottoms should try them. The numbers on the Howard 28 Bullet at 110 mph with a 1.35 GR are 16.5% slip with a 31 Bravo lab, and 9.5% with a 29 Hydromotive P5X. I have to say,,,,,,,,,,,The boat is much quicker and faster with the Bravo Lab, but it is very soft and comfortable with the P5X. Most of my new customers have both in their arsonal:D
Lake of the Ozarks should be a go for 08. We will see how things pan out.
Kap,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do expect your boat will be running well with that 848, and I might have a special tune up for you at the Lake of the Ozarks,,,,,,,,,,if your nice:D

[TPI]

Marc,
That 848 I was referring to is in the spam section under 848/948.

[Lavey29]

That Hydromotive P5x has really "tamed down" some vee bottoms at high speeds. More people with 24 degree bottoms should try them. The numbers on the Howard 28 Bullet at 110 mph with a 1.35 GR are 16.5% slip with a 31 Bravo lab, and 9.5% with a 29 Hydromotive P5X. I have to say,,,,,,,,,,,The boat is much quicker and faster with the Bravo Lab, but it is very soft and comfortable with the P5X. Most of my new customers have both in their arsonal:D
Lake of the Ozarks should be a go for 08. We will see how things pan out.
Kap,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do expect your boat will be running well with that 848, and I might have a special tune up for you at the Lake of the Ozarks,,,,,,,,,,if your nice:D
I get better all around performance with the P5x that Bob recommended and tested. Accelleration, mid range and top end. You are totally right also in that it made the boat run even smoother at high speeds. Just performed better then the Bravo lab that was on there.

[ToMorrow44]

Man I wish the P-5X worked on my boat. I tried it and it picked up the back end of the boat and shoved the nose down and ran a top speed of like 75 at 4800rpm. The boat just did not like it at all. Its a great prop for a lot of boats with big power, just wished it worked on mine.
-Tom

[92562]

I had the same problem with a P-5X lifting the stern unitil I tried one with most of the difuser cut off. Then it worked pretty good. With the difuser in place, it shoved the nose down and the steering was erratic. My best all around prop is still a labbed Bravo ('cuz my boat is slow!:D)
---Rob

[TPI]

Rob,
was that a P5X or a Maximus? I dont know of anyone cutting off the ring on the P5X?

[Lavey29]

Man I wish the P-5X worked on my boat. I tried it and it picked up the back end of the boat and shoved the nose down and ran a top speed of like 75 at 4800rpm. The boat just did not like it at all. Its a great prop for a lot of boats with big power, just wished it worked on mine.
-Tom
It does provide a lot of stern lift so it requires a boat with natural bow lift already. It is smaller diameter then the maximus and the blades are designed differently. You are right though, some boats it works others it doesn't. Tom, did you look at those throttle up 5 blade cleavers?

[92562]

Rob,
was that a P5X or a Maximus? I dont know of anyone cutting off the ring on the P5X?
My Bad,
It was a Maximus. The P5 was good, but not worth the extra $$ IMO after having the Bravo re-worked twice.

[SPUDWIG]

The p5x works great on my 24 Schiada with about 3 " of higher x. Works amazing.
My Bad,
It was a Maximus. The P5 was good, but not worth the extra $$ IMO after having the Bravo re-worked twice.

[ToMorrow44]

It does provide a lot of stern lift so it requires a boat with natural bow lift already. It is smaller diameter then the maximus and the blades are designed differently. You are right though, some boats it works others it doesn't. Tom, did you look at those throttle up 5 blade cleavers?
I talked to Throttle Up a lot about their 4 blade CNC props and they even said that those are more of a cleaver ear design and would lift the stern as well. They recommended against even trying the 4 Blade. Their 5-blade with the cleaver design I don't think would even come close to working. They're really nice looking props though and a good alternative to Herring. The Hydromotive P-5X is supposed to be the "Bow Lifting" version of the 5 blade with the round ears and the P-5Race the stern lifting with the cleaver ear design. Even still the X lifted the back end. I'd really like to try Hydromotives Q-IVX (4-blade round ear) because a lot of people say it has the same characteristics of a labbed bravo but is a few MPH faster. I just can't find anyone who has one to try out.
My Bad,
It was a Maximus. The P5 was good, but not worth the extra $$ IMO after having the Bravo re-worked twice.
So you tried a Maximus with the ring cut off and it worked really well? I guess that might be something interesting to look into...
-Tom

[TPI]

I would think a P5X that would spin 5700-5800 on your boat would be the ticket. I am not sure what pitch that would be though and what GR you are running,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I would think a 26 might do it. Is that what you tried?

[It's Only Money]

Lavey's that are set up to run fast are for seasoned boaters just as any other hopped up boat should be. You don't see a novice driver jump right into a Ferrari and take it to top speed. Clearfork has the best experience here because he has driven and tested both models and it sounds like he is taking a neutral position giving both boats high marks although he currently owns a Howard it appears. I have run my boat up to 99mph in 105 degrees with 3/4 tank and all my crap on board. Probably had another 3 mph in it if I was running light on a cool day. Rock steady, full hydraulic steering to the helm helps also. Teague tested my boat at 95mph on a windy day and said with the 5 blade it was solid and smooth. In certain water conditions, Howards are very fast. The guy from Norway was talking about 10' swells to go through to get to his boating spots. Lavey has been tested in big water and blew everything else away on the race course. Howard has never been in water like that and I doubt one ever will be unless someone is looking for an insurance pay off. They are both good boats, just a matter of opinion, cosmetic appeal and who gives you the best deal for your money.
Excuse me Lavey highjacker - the ***boat article said the baot was downright DANGEROUS and wouldn't print the results thus giving the manufacturer a chance to repair the hull.

[It's Only Money]

However, if you really want to go really fast, really efficiently in big water or smooth water, there is only one choice: a Fountain.
But compare the speeds of Fountains against other boats with the same power. Its quite remarkable in general. There are many Fountains that do over 110 with only 1050 hp. Pick up the phone, call Fountain, tell them you want to break 110 with 1050 hp, and they can deliver you the boat, no problem. In fact, today, for $129K!!!
And if you want to really put the power down and get stupid numbers, you can do it in a Fountain.
I own a Fountain, but I don't work for them in any way.
The motor along would cost 3/4 of that price. You are looney.
Merc 1050 with a number 6 is something like $150K. What is TPI or Teague selling a 1000+ HP motor with suitable drive? Get serious.

[TPI]

I think I could probably sell a TPI 540 with a new Whipple 305 efi, fully dressed with an ITS gimbal, and Drive for about...............:idea: $93-95K.
That would be a 1050-1100 hp turn key package.............and a deal.
I wonder if Fountain would sell me the boat less motor for $36K?:D (joking)
A good vee bottom set up to handle a motor like that is going to be AT LEAST $100K (less motor package),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,easily.

[dicudmore]

The motor along would cost 3/4 of that price. You are looney.
Merc 1050 with a number 6 is something like $150K. What is TPI or Teague selling a 1000+ HP motor with suitable drive? Get serious.
IOM and Gary--I think the 1050 Fountain combo he was referring was most likely a twin 525 set-up :wink:
I have no idea what Fountains prices are @ the moment but I doubt he was talking about a big single...

[TPI]

Good point, although that is still a great buy at $129. I had not even thought about two 525's, but the motor packages alone will be $80K delivered....................

[dicudmore]

Good point, although that is still a great buy at $129. I had not even thought about two 525's, but the motor packages alone will be $80K delivered....................
true--Merc is proud of that stuff :D All I was trying to say is you don't see too many single engine "beak boats"

[TPI]

....:)

[Lavey29]

Excuse me Lavey highjacker - the ***boat article said the baot was downright DANGEROUS and wouldn't print the results thus giving the manufacturer a chance to repair the hull.
Are we reviving this argument again? I thought we had all moved on but since you resurfaced with a comment, I will respond. I did not hijack your thread, just responded to your opening comments regarding speeds and efficiency of various boat hulls. I expressed my opinion concerning Howard and Lavey craft boats, as you have read throughout this thread. I have not had the opportunity to ride or drive a 28 Bullet but I have an opinion about their performance in certain conditions based on the info that I have acquired. Sure, I could change my opinion on them if I had personal experience with the boat in various conditions or if there was more documented info that showed their performance in various condtions such as offshore.I am sure you have never been in a big Lavey offshore either. There are currently at least 3 Laveycraft boats that race offshore in all types of conditions. There are "0" Howards that race at this time. I do not know of one Bullet ever raced offshore in competition yet the Howard website says they would be perfect for F1 thus promoting the boat to use in racing if so desired. Yet, no one does or ever has from what I know. So, you jump back into the thread late and say the bottom of the Lavey is dangerous. Why then would any sane person race them offshore in wicked water conditions? Bob Teague has driven my boat at high speed 95mph. Handled perfectly according to him (but what does he know about boats) with the P5X on it. Why don't you post the article you are referring to and while you are at it, why don't you post some nice pics of the Bullet running offshore flying off some 8' swells. I can post a bunch more of Lavey's doing it if you want.

[Lavey29]

Excuse me Lavey highjacker - the ***boat article said the baot was downright DANGEROUS and wouldn't print the results thus giving the manufacturer a chance to repair the hull.
I came across a few pics of one of these "downright DANGEROUS" boats running hard. The guys in this boat have to be suicidal I guess. I am sure they have no confidence in the boat to be running at those speeds under those conditions. Post some pics of the Bullet flying in the deep blue for me to see...

[TPI]

I have flown mine a few times(never in the ocean though...............:D) But just like motocross,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its way faster when its planted to the water and that 28 Bullet bottom is working:D
I know of one day I was running over 100 mph in some white caps out in the area of Windsor beach and I hit 2 LARGE rollers that must have come from the Casino Cruise Boat...........................I was flying then................
Just trying to keep the thread interesting........................:D

[92562]

Flown mine a few times at Powell from the tour boat wakes. They're so far apart that they are hard to see until you're right on 'em.:sqeyes:

[ToMorrow44]

Flown mine a few times at Powell from the tour boat wakes. They're so far apart that they are hard to see until you're right on 'em.:sqeyes:
Oh god those tour boat wakes suck! you're just driving along and all of the sudden your flying like 5ft in the air. Even worse than the tour boats is a giant red/white paddle boat that was at Wahweap (sp?). It would make some cool pictures if you were on the tour boat though.
-Tom

[Lavey29]

Yep, you guys are right those things send sunamis back out. There are also some big ocean type mini yatchs like Sea Ray out there on the lake that cruise at like 25mph. They send off some huge swells of the back also.

[Lavey29]

Hey Gary, is there much or a price difference between your motors depending on the cosmetics such as polished vs blue vs carbon fiber (widow) type?

[ToMorrow44]

Not to change the subject or anything but I was doing some reading on OSO and in the midst of discussing best single engine V hulls we neglected to mention one: Warlock. Now most of us know that Warlock has had its troubles over the years financially, and I'm not sure how they're doing now, but you have to admit that they build some badass boats. One guy over there is running 751hp and hitting 101-102mph and another guy reportedly hitting 110+ with 850+hp. Those are some pretty impressive numbers and I don't think anyone will argue that Warlock can handle big water. They kicked everyones ass in F-1 not too long ago, and are still competitive if I remember right. I just thought I'd share that with all of you and stir up the pot a little bit. Its just too bad that Warlock has had such financial troubles the past few years. I owned a 23XRI and that thing ate up all kinds of water.
-Tom

[Lavey29]

Yep, I mentioned them during round 6 with the H boyz. They were a great boat some years back and there may even be a few that still race. Friend at work has 25 with the 500hp in it. Their cats and their V's were both used for offshore racing.

[Lavey29]

I have flown mine a few times(never in the ocean though...............:D) But just like motocross,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its way faster when its planted to the water and that 28 Bullet bottom is working:D
I know of one day I was running over 100 mph in some white caps out in the area of Windsor beach and I hit 2 LARGE rollers that must have come from the Casino Cruise Boat...........................I was flying then................
Just trying to keep the thread interesting........................:D
About 12 years ago, I was running my 22 daytona with the blackhawk drive down that side at over 90mph. I hit some swells and the air packed under and blew me vertical about 15' into the air. I thought I was going all the way over and landing upside down but when the boat came down on the transom it slammed back down forward and cam to a stop very quick. Then my own wake hit the back of the boat and sent water up the exhaust into the motor. Seemed like I was in the air forever. Really the only sgnificantly scary thing that has ever happened to me boating.

[ToMorrow44]

Yep, I mentioned them during round 6 with the H boyz. They were a great boat some years back and there may even be a few that still race. Friend at work has 25 with the 500hp in it. Their cats and their V's were both used for offshore racing.
My bad I didn't know you mentioned them. Yeah they raced in the good old days of Pacific Offshore like Ventura in 8'ers and stuff.
-Tom

[Lavey29]

My bad I didn't know you mentioned them. Yeah they raced in the good old days of Pacific Offshore like Ventura in 8'ers and stuff.
-Tom
No trip to the zoo during the big weekend Tom? Personally, I am burned out on the crowds up there on holiday weekends. It just is not like it was 10 - 15years ago. Thugs everywhere up there on the holidays.

[TPI]

Hey Gary, is there much or a price difference between your motors depending on the cosmetics such as polished vs blue vs carbon fiber (widow) type?
These days,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all polished is the most expensive by about $1000 over the blue standard 848 @ $39950+tax

[ToMorrow44]

No trip to the zoo during the big weekend Tom? Personally, I am burned out on the crowds up there on holiday weekends. It just is not like it was 10 - 15years ago. Thugs everywhere up there on the holidays.
Lol no way not this weekend thats just asking for trouble. Actually if you stayed around the south end it might not be too bad. Sitting on the balcony above Havasu Springs marina is always fun watching people try to park...similar to watching the launch ramps this weekend. I'll never forget advice given in the one and only ***boat Magazine "Nice boat? Big weekend? Stay home." Words to live by there. Kind of sad really I'm in the prime of my youth and I don't even want to go on big weekends with the exception of the Poker Run.
-Tom

[TPI]

No trip to the zoo during the big weekend Tom? Personally, I am burned out on the crowds up there on holiday weekends. It just is not like it was 10 - 15years ago. Thugs everywhere up there on the holidays.
Marc,
I will be up in Havasu for Business this week,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I plan on bringing my boat...................................If you are around, PM me a phone number and I will take you for a ride in this thing......................
Rick,,,,,,,,,,,,,the same goes for you..................
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/p281.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Roll1057m.jpg

[Lavey29]

Gary,
It's B day weekend for me. Gonna take the family to San Diego and Sea World. May make a trip the middle of June but for sure will be up the last weekend of June through July 5 if you are around. Love to ride the big tangerine pumkin....
Marc

[Lavey29]

Lol no way not this weekend thats just asking for trouble. Actually if you stayed around the south end it might not be too bad. Sitting on the balcony above Havasu Springs marina is always fun watching people try to park...similar to watching the launch ramps this weekend. I'll never forget advice given in the one and only ***boat Magazine "Nice boat? Big weekend? Stay home." Words to live by there. Kind of sad really I'm in the prime of my youth and I don't even want to go on big weekends with the exception of the Poker Run.
-Tom
I totally agree with you. Even on the regular weekends, I don't really like it anymore. I launch early and get off early. I was up a few weeks ago and on a Monday, I was the only boat in Steamboat for the first 3 hours. It was a perfect relaxing time with the family and the boats that did come in later were all good people (real boaters) which made it a perfect day.

[It's Only Money]

Are we reviving this argument again? I thought we had all moved on but since you resurfaced with a comment, I will respond. I did not hijack your thread, just responded to your opening comments regarding speeds and efficiency of various boat hulls. I expressed my opinion concerning Howard and Lavey craft boats, as you have read throughout this thread. I have not had the opportunity to ride or drive a 28 Bullet but I have an opinion about their performance in certain conditions based on the info that I have acquired. Sure, I could change my opinion on them if I had personal experience with the boat in various conditions or if there was more documented info that showed their performance in various condtions such as offshore.I am sure you have never been in a big Lavey offshore either. There are currently at least 3 Laveycraft boats that race offshore in all types of conditions. There are "0" Howards that race at this time. I do not know of one Bullet ever raced offshore in competition yet the Howard website says they would be perfect for F1 thus promoting the boat to use in racing if so desired. Yet, no one does or ever has from what I know. So, you jump back into the thread late and say the bottom of the Lavey is dangerous. Why then would any sane person race them offshore in wicked water conditions? Bob Teague has driven my boat at high speed 95mph. Handled perfectly according to him (but what does he know about boats) with the P5X on it. Why don't you post the article you are referring to and while you are at it, why don't you post some nice pics of the Bullet running offshore flying off some 8' swells. I can post a bunch more of Lavey's doing it if you want.
1) Laveys were never mentioned in my original posting which was a commentary about similar sized boats that were recently tested by arguably the best testers in the business. You jumped in to espouse the Lavey "race bred" crap and point out that there aren't any offshore Howard race boats. So friggin what? Who cares? Most of the boaters on this site are lake boaters NOT offshore racers. We truly don't give a damn on whether a Lavey wins or not - offshore.
2) Post all the pictures you want on a new thread - maybe entiteld "Laveys Rule Offshore Racing" and while you're at it do so on OSO.
3) According to the Powerboat tests the Howard obtained the highest speed for the horsepower used with approximately same weight of hull. Efficiency? You bet. Where was Lavey during the Powerboat annual trials? Chose not to participate maybe? Couldn't stomach losing again?
Question - Did Lavey redo or not redo their 2750 NuEra hull after the ***boat editorial?

[ToMorrow44]

1) Laveys were never mentioned in my original posting which was a commentary about similar sized boats that were recently tested by arguably the best testers in the business. You jumped in to espouse the Lavey "race bred" crap and point out that there aren't any offshore Howard race boats. So friggin what? Who cares? Most of the boaters on this site are lake boaters NOT offshore racers. We truly don't give a damn on whether a Lavey wins or not - offshore.
2) Post all the pictures you want on a new thread - maybe entiteld "Laveys Rule Offshore Racing" and while you're at it do so on OSO.
3) According to the Powerboat tests the Howard obtained the highest speed for the horsepower used with approximately same weight of hull. Efficiency? You bet. Where was Lavey during the Powerboat annual trials? Chose not to participate maybe? Couldn't stomach losing again?
Question - Did Lavey redo or not redo their 2750 NuEra hull after the ***boat editorial?
Man you keep bringing up this issue over and over trying to instigate an argument. Frankly, everyone else has moved on to a more social interaction here on this thread. Yes Laveys race offshore and do well. Yes most of the people on this board are "lake" boaters. Yes Howard builds a very efficient hull. Yes Powerboat gave these boats a good test and it appears that the Howard is the fastest. But does that mean Howard is the best? No. Is Lavey scared of losing? No because there really is no contest here because as mentioned a thousand times, it all comes down to personal preference. Just face it, everyone out there makes a good boat, they just all do it in different ways. I really doubt that article is going to make people rush out and buy a Howard.
-Tom

[It's Only Money]

Boy you must be as dense as lavey29...the thread was started about a certain set of boats and LaveyPUKE29 jumped in with his pronouncements about Lavey being so damn great because they participate in offshore racing. Again...who cares. It's called hijacking a thread for his pushing his favorite brand. Me...I have no bias for or against the posted boats. I just resent someone jumping in and pushing there shiznit.

[Lavey29]

Man you keep bringing up this issue over and over trying to instigate an argument. Frankly, everyone else has moved on to a more social interaction here on this thread. Yes Laveys race offshore and do well. Yes most of the people on this board are "lake" boaters. Yes Howard builds a very efficient hull. Yes Powerboat gave these boats a good test and it appears that the Howard is the fastest. But does that mean Howard is the best? No. Is Lavey scared of losing? No because there really is no contest here because as mentioned a thousand times, it all comes down to personal preference. Just face it, everyone out there makes a good boat, they just all do it in different ways. I really doubt that article is going to make people rush out and buy a Howard.
-Tom
Well put Tom. I won't respond any further to his comments which are a good indication of his intelligence level.

[ToMorrow44]

Well put Tom. I won't respond any further to his comments which are a good indication of his intelligence level.
I agree. Of course he started this thread so maybe we all need to start our own. lol :rolleyes:

[kap]

Its Only Money started the thread but like it or not" HE" abandon the thread by not steering the conversation toward his intended theme.
Which by the way is "Howard Bullet Versus?" This leads a reader to believe that it is a bout between Howard {his choice} and everyone else.
The discussion can then have members with their particular brand preferences discuss why their choice is superior or as good. VERSUS the BULLET and WHY!!!
________________
Its Only Money your tone is very angry, critical and derogatory.
Several people, have responded on your thread with ideas of power, performance,and potential neutral grounds to prove your theory and mine.
Which is the Howard Bullet is capable of putting up some monster numbers.
Frankly I enjoyed this thread, members posting and hope to meet several of the members as they all seem like outstanding boaters.
For that I thank you!
Respectfully,
KAP

[little rowe boat]

[QUOTE=kap;2588992]Its Only Money started the thread but like it or not" HE" abandon the thread by not steering the conversation toward his intended theme.
Which by the way is " This leads a reader to believe that it is a bout between Howard {his choice} and everyone else.
I disagree, because then he goes on to list DCB and Hallett.

[kap]

LRB:
Your right!!!!!!!!!! Not his choice! I stand corrected :) .
As to whether or not he abandoned the thread it is the only conclusion I can come to--- unless the author cares to comment in a civil fashion :confused: .
Kap
P.S. Interesting you did not comment on the derogatory remarks by the author :idea: :idea: .

[little rowe boat]

LRB:
Your right!!!!!!!!!! Not his choice! I stand corrected :) .
As to whether or not he abandoned the thread it is the only conclusion I can come to--- unless the author cares to comment in a civil fashion :confused: .
Kap
P.S. Interesting you did not comment on the derogatory remarks by the author :idea: :idea: .
I am not going to comment on anyones derogatory remarks. As for abandoning the thread:confused: I don't see where it was abandoned. The author is probably not happy because he FEELS as though the thread was hijacked.

[It's Only Money]

LRB:
Your right!!!!!!!!!! Not his choice! I stand corrected :) .
As to whether or not he abandoned the thread it is the only conclusion I can come to--- unless the author cares to comment in a civil fashion :confused: .
Kap
P.S. Interesting you did not comment on the derogatory remarks by the author :idea: :idea: .
Thread was hijacked when the LaveyDUDE came to promote his boat. I can't check into the thread every single day as I do have a real life to lead but when I did there's the typical Lavey spew - We race, Howard doesn't so we're better. Then they go on to ignore the issue with the reportedly severe handling issue of the 27 NuEra as Hot Boat's editor exposed. Remember that the CUSTOMER's boat (as someone early in the thread posted) was being tested. How would YOU like to know your brand spanking new boat handled so poorly that Hot Boat wouldn't even publish the specs and sent it back to the manufacturer for correction? Now...I will repeat - ALLEDGEDLY it was a Lavey as I've heard this from several reliable insiders. Nobody has yet, in many pages of this thread DENIED the alledged Lavey.
Does the originator of a thread need to constantly steer the topic back to the original theme? Or does common courtesy call for the thread to maintain some consistency? Rules? There are no rules.
The thread started due to an interesting set of conclusions I came to from reading the Powerboat Awards issue. 4 boats - one a cat, with similar displacements and dissimilar power though the speeds we somewhat suspect. The discussion morphed into Lavey ranting. So be it. I don't see a "Lavey is the Best Because We Race" thread yet.\
Lastly...where are the derogatory remarks unless you mean calling the Lavey owners HIJACKERS. I merely pointed out an alledgedly defective Lavey brought to a major testing session and all Lavey proponents ignored that. Derogatory? Don't think so.
Interesting - little comment from the Hallett or DCB owners....Lavey was left out of the original post due to their lack of participation in the awards - albeit none. Now, do I dislike Lavey for some reason....decidedly NOT. I wouldn't put them in with the Howards, Hallets and DCB's that were first mentioned in post #1. They might be second tier - if I cared about offshore racing but then I'd probably switch to Fountain, Donzi, Formula or other non-West Coast boat builder rather than a Lavey. If for no other reason their rich offshore heritage. I actually own an older Eliminator that will eb upgraded at sometime so discussion about the 3 V's was appropriate.
Question - why on almost every boat thread when someone comments on say three brands does brand "X" (not one of the three) have to pipe up and spew their $0.01 worth? Wasn't asked for nor wanted. I guess that's due to the public nature of the forumsm huh?

[ToMorrow44]

To answer your question, yes this is a public forum and people are allowed to post whatever they want as long as it is appropriate. If someone decides to chime in and say hey what about my boat, then so be it. With the title of this thread and your first post, you're insinuating that the Howard Bullet is the fastest and best single engine V-bottom out there. Whether or not you mentioned Lavey or anyone else is irrelevant because you left the topic open for discussion. I don't consider this thread hijacked at all, it is still talking about various single engine V bottoms. You brought up a topic and now don't want to let everyone participate in the discussion when they mention a new boat. Who cares? Like you said its an open forum, people are allowed to post whatever they want. If you don't like where the topic of discussion is going, then don't read it anymore.
-Tom
BTW I resent you calling Lavey29 and myself dense. For me, I'm probably one of the most knowlegeable 19 year olds you'll ever find when it comes to boats, just look at most of my posts, they're all technical information. That and I just got accepted to one of the most prestigious schools in the country who accepts a grand total of 5% of applicants. I'm not an idiot by any means and neither is Lavey29.

[kap]

Hey Tomorrow:
Congratulations on your acceptance to the school of your choice. I am very impressed with your knowledge at the ripe age of 19. What school did you get accepted to MIT I hope just kidding :D .
________________
Its Only Money
Lets get back to the subject at hand.
wrote:
The thread started due to an interesting set of conclusions I came to from reading the Powerboat Awards issue. 4 boats - one a cat, with similar displacements and dissimilar power though the speeds we somewhat suspect.
Please explain further!!!
KAP

[ToMorrow44]

Hey Tomorrow:
Congratulations on your acceptance to the school of your choice. I am very impressed with your knowledge at the ripe age of 19. What school did you get accepted to MIT I hope just kidding :D .
________________
No no not MIT I don't think I'm smart enough for that. I got accepted to the US Coast Guard Academy and majoring in Mechanical Engineering. Reporting in July 2nd...it should be interesting. Thanks for the compliments
-Tom

[ToMorrow44]

Man where'd everyone go? Been dead in here for a couple days now...

[Lavey29]

Man where'd everyone go? Been dead in here for a couple days now...
Moved on to "hijack" more important discussions :D

[92562]

Moved on to "hijack" more important discussions :D
You terrorist you! :D :D :D j/k!
This thread was getting too personal.....lets get back on the lake!

[Lavey29]

You terrorist you! :D :D :D j/k!
This thread was getting too personal.....lets get back on the lake!
It did not need to end up that way. I'm dying to get on the water too. Got 3 weeks off and the end of June and will be in Havi for a week 5/28 - 7/5. If anyone on here is up that way, lets hook up for a coldie...I like Steamboat to beach. During the week, it's great there for the family...

[TPI]

I have been in Havasu since Monday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it was very nice out there.

[Lavey29]

I have been in Havasu since Monday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it was very nice out there.
I heard it got up to 116 out there which is cookin early in the season and I'm talking about the temp, not the Tangerine Pumkins new top end speed :D

[Lavey29]

I have been in Havasu since Monday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it was very nice out there.
I heard it got up to 116 out there which is cookin early in the season and I'm talking about the temp, not the Tangerine Pumkins new top end speed :D

[dicudmore]

Thread was hijacked when the LaveyDUDE came to promote his boat. I can't check into the thread every single day as I do have a real life to lead but when I did there's the typical Lavey spew - We race, Howard doesn't so we're better. Then they go on to ignore the issue with the reportedly severe handling issue of the 27 NuEra as Hot Boat's editor exposed. Remember that the CUSTOMER's boat (as someone early in the thread posted) was being tested. How would YOU like to know your brand spanking new boat handled so poorly that Hot Boat wouldn't even publish the specs and sent it back to the manufacturer for correction? Now...I will repeat - ALLEDGEDLY it was a Lavey as I've heard this from several reliable insiders. Nobody has yet, in many pages of this thread DENIED the alledged Lavey.
What is there to deny? Its a FACT...If you reach far enough back into the archives here on HB there are threads regarding the 2750 handling and I'm pretty sure the above mentioned "test boat" that was a customers boat was also a board members boat...Laveyman or something to that effect?? Maybe I have two situations confused but there is definitely a thread where the boats owner says in reply to Lavey's position of the bottom being "dialed" to please send Kevin Cooper out to show him how to drive the boat since in his eyes it was dangerous :idea: Yes, obviously the Lavey has proven itself time and time again OFFSHORE, that does not mean its the smoothest riding lake boat in the world :wink:

[TPI]

I heard it got up to 116 out there which is cookin early in the season and I'm talking about the temp, not the Tangerine Pumkins new top end speed :D
That pumpkin wont be seeing 116 anythime this year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its already just too damn hot! My buddy Steve's red 28 Bullet was showing me up out there,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so I need to re-evaluate my current set up:idea:

[kap]

TPI wrote:
My buddy Steve's red 28 Bullet was showing me up out there,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so I need to re-evaluate my current set up.
Well don't hold back tell us the what, were, and how. Acceleration, midrange, rollon speed---- details..... inquiring minds want to know.
It should make you smile when your set-up is dialed in. I wish I'd known your out at the lake during the week. I would have stopped by with the radar gun :D .
KAP

[Lavey29]

That pumpkin wont be seeing 116 anythime this year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its already just too damn hot! My buddy Steve's red 28 Bullet was showing me up out there,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so I need to re-evaluate my current set up:idea:
Well, I know the horsepower is there, have you experimented with drive spacers 1" 2" etc...to see if there is any extra MPH there?

[TPI]

Too Hot..............................

[TPI]

TPI wrote:
Well don't hold back tell us the what, were, and how. Acceleration, midrange, rollon speed---- details..... inquiring minds want to know.
It should make you smile when your set-up is dialed in. I wish I'd known your out at the lake during the week. I would have stopped by with the radar gun :D .
KAP
I was not out at the lake to go fast in my boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I was tuning on some other motors and I needed to drop that polished 848 off at ABSOLUTE SPEED AND MARINE on Industrial ave.
Although just about everytime I was running over 105+ on the lake in my boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my buddy Steve drove around me in his Bullet:mad: . That thing is VERY fast/stable..................
I really like the MMW billet lower on the 28 Bullet vee bottom. It feels good and over 110 mph it really tracks straight as the boat gains speed. I will be putting one on my boat when I get the extra time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It should be worth 2+ mph I would think, but mostly, I really like the long skag,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,very nice.

[kap]

Hmmm -----Running around at what speed :jawdrop: :jawdrop: that's great to hear. The heat kills topend and gobbles the fuel. Is the lake sticky and flat I assume since he's driving around you must be calm and flat.
I need to drop by MMW and check out that billet lower and all the new beefed up stuff they were telling me about. I may head to Havasu next week and visit with those guys.
Talked to Clearfork aka MP his Bullet is running strong and has nothing but props for the TPI BW in his ride.
Thanks for checking in with us. Drop a line and let us know if the bass or stripers are biting:D .
That sure is one fast fishing boat ya got there :D :D !!!!!!!!!!!!
KAP

[Lavey29]

I was not out at the lake to go fast in my boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I was tuning on some other motors and I needed to drop that polished 848 off at ABSOLUTE SPEED AND MARINE on Industrial ave.
Although just about everytime I was running over 105+ on the lake in my boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my buddy Steve drove around me in his Bullet:mad: . That thing is VERY fast/stable..................
I really like the MMW billet lower on the 28 Bullet vee bottom. It feels good and over 110 mph it really tracks straight as the boat gains speed. I will be putting one on my boat when I get the extra time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It should be worth 2+ mph I would think, but mostly, I really like the long skag,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,very nice.
Gary, how are you gonna get 2mph with that billet lower,,is it a shorty with a long skag? Are you running IMCO lower now? Its a nice piece from MMW but pricey for sure...

[TPI]

I am currently running a fresh standard length IMCO lower case with MMW guts. The MMW Billet lower is 2" shorter, VERY hydrodynamic and works well on the Bullet with a 1" spacer, which is a net of 1" shorter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and a skag that is 1" longer than the standard IMCO. That is how I set up my friend Steves boat.
Kap, Go talk to Aaron and Jason at MMW, you could always get your drive from them since you are going direct:D That takes me out of the loop. That might work out better for you.:)

[It's Only Money]

What is there to deny? Its a FACT...If you reach far enough back into the archives here on HB there are threads regarding the 2750 handling and I'm pretty sure the above mentioned "test boat" that was a customers boat was also a board members boat...Laveyman or something to that effect?? Maybe I have two situations confused but there is definitely a thread where the boats owner says in reply to Lavey's position of the bottom being "dialed" to please send Kevin Cooper out to show him how to drive the boat since in his eyes it was dangerous :idea: Yes, obviously the Lavey has proven itself time and time again OFFSHORE, that does not mean its the smoothest riding lake boat in the world :wink:
Again - Ignored by Lavey Dudes. Keep ignoring facts.

[Lavey29]

Again - Ignored by Lavey Dudes. Keep ignoring facts.
Not ignored, I just choose not to respond to your threads in here anymore because you act like a 2 year old. I prefer to debate boat issues with real boaters who argue their points like reasonable adults.

[azgfboatgirl]

Phebus,
You will have a permanent grin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I promise!
This is the best sales line I've heard for the Howard Bullet! :D :D :D :D
I agree!!!!!!! ;)

[Lavey29]

Hey Libby, thanks for being the coolest boat registration person on the planet. You always make things so damn easy for us boaters. Cali DMV could use some training from you and the other's in your office. You guys are great... :D

[TPI]

Libby is the best. She has helped me a BUNCH in the past. Seriously, a good lady that knows her job. I hope to see her again at the Howard Regatta in Sept.
Hey Marc,,,,,,,,,,,,,I ran "your 848" today in my boat:D 102.3 mph,,,,,,,,,,I did have it up to 7 lbs of boost though on 91 octane(I usually run 5 on the standard 848), but I really wanted to see how hard it would be to push a Bullet over 100 mph. I just might have to keep this one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are so darn friendly!

[Lavey29]

Libby is the best. She has helped me a BUNCH in the past. Seriously, a good lady that knows her job. I hope to see her again at the Howard Regatta in Sept.
Hey Marc,,,,,,,,,,,,,I ran "your 848" today in my boat:D 102.3 mph,,,,,,,,,,I did have it up to 7 lbs of boost though on 91 octane(I usually run 5 on the standard 848), but I really wanted to see how hard it would be to push a Bullet over 100 mph. I just might have to keep this one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are so darn friendly!
Funny, I just looked at the pics of that motor on your other thread and thought those engraved valve covers were bitchen. Is 7 pounds putting it up near 900hp? I am going to be in Havasu in couple of weeks and gonna look at it over at Aarons. I have some feelers out about selling mine now. Need to get a good price to offset the difference. I also want to get complete package lists from those other guys we mentioned to see where you come out ahead in the game. The power curve is different between a screw and roots charger right?

[TPI]

The best part is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are not ingraved,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are a brushed aluminum graphic that I apply when the motor is done. I have never done a comparison roots vs Screw,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I have quite a bit of time working on these screw blowers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my last "900" made 975 ft/lbs of torque at 3800 rpms and 948 hp at 6100.

[TPI]

Marc,,,,,,,,,,just in case you didnt believe me. This was taken yesterday. I like this motor,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a lot!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/078483_003m.jpg

[Lavey29]

Looks great and runs even better I'm sure. I thought that was laser etching on those covers. The dimensions overall have to be smaller then what I am running now right. I have a deep well back there so height should not be a problem. I currently clear my garage door by 1/4" so no scoop for me...

[ToMorrow44]

Looks great and runs even better I'm sure. I thought that was laser etching on those covers. The dimensions overall have to be smaller then what I am running now right. I have a deep well back there so height should not be a problem. I currently clear my garage door by 1/4" so no scoop for me...
I don't think you'll have any height clearance problems in your boat thats a deep boat. Lavey built one a while back with a TCM 1000 with the 14-71 blower and innercooler and it didn't even stick out of the hatch. How tall is your garage door because my boat's on a low profile trailer and overall is shorter than yours and fits in my garage by about 1".
-Tom

[Lavey29]

I rub my bimini top going under a 7' door. Clears the hatch vents by 1/4"

[ToMorrow44]

Damn you got lucky with that. I'll have to measure my door height again because I thought mine was 7'. Yours is on a standard trailer too right? No low profile for you? How do you fit your boat in the garage depth wise? Do you have it in sideways or do you have a deep garage?
-Tom

[Lavey29]

My garage is 36' deep so I have a little room in the front and back of the trailer/boat. The marine dealership that I purchased it from was in North Carolina and part of the deal was contingent that it fit in the garage. We measured and figured about 1/2" clearance under the door. They drove it out from N.C. and if it did not fit then I was going to give the $1500 for their trouble. Luckily it fit straight in. I have a triple axel extreme trailer with upgraded wheels and tires but its not the low pro bling style. Does have chrome fenders though and diamond plate steps with the hidden spare.

[ToMorrow44]

Yeah my garage is 32ft deep so my boat fits in there straight on a good day. With no prop, a hole in the wall for the drive and tab, and the swingable tounge it'll clear the door by about 1/8". Kinda wish we built the garage a little bigger lol.
So you putting in one of those blingin TPI motors over the winter or what? That's gonna be a fast boat with that kind of power, just be nice to the drive.
-Tom

[It's Only Money]

Not ignored, I just choose not to respond to your threads in here anymore because you act like a 2 year old. I prefer to debate boat issues with real boaters who argue their points like reasonable adults.
You F$CKING MORON. You have chosen to ignore or fail to comment on EVERY post that brings out the allegations of SEVERE, DANGEROUS handling characteristics of a specific LAVEY hull. Me acting like a 2 year old? Not in your wildest dreams. This thread was not started to discuss Laveys but YOU decided to put your two cents (less than that actually) into the mix about your "wonderful" <sic> offshore boat and how a Howard or implied most other hulls couldn't hold a candle to it. Well, when you were called on that and presented commentary about the deficiencies in Lavey hulls - perceived by other third parties including Hot Boat Magazine and Powerboat editors - you clammed up, changed the subject or outright ignored them. Then in your assine manner say you want to debate boats? Right. Not debate at all but spew the Lavey party line. You disgust me with your rudeness. Now you want to discuss garages. Very to the point of hull efficiencies.
Let me turn up the volume a little:
EXACTLY WHY WAS THE 2750 NuERA NOT REVIEWED ABOUT ITS DEFECTIVE HULL AND DANGEROUS (WORDS OF ***boat EDITORS) HANDLING?
Could you hear that? Are you intelligent enough to understand that? The LAVEY Kool-aid worn off yet?
I don't expect you to post any quality response as you haven't yet to any part of this thread.

[ToMorrow44]

Dude, shut up.

[azgfboatgirl]

[QUOTE=TPI;2606222]Libby is the best. She has helped me a BUNCH in the past. Seriously, a good lady that knows her job. I hope to see her again at the Howard Regatta in Sept.
QUOTE]
I was all set for October and found out the date was changed. :eek: :jawdrop:
I'll have to call in sick to my Dbacks job to go that weekend now! :devil: :sqeyes:
See you there!:)

[Lavey29]

Thanks for confirming my opinion. You obviously have some issues that you may want to seek professional help for. Good luck to you...

[azgfboatgirl]

Hey Lavey29, When are you going to send those Cali people over here? :D

[Lavey29]

Hey Lavey29, When are you going to send those Cali people over here? :D
LOL,,,trust me cali DMV is not even a close second to you and your co-workers in the AZ. The customer service you guys provide is top shelf and any problems that come up are easy to fix with your help. I wrote a letter and mailed it to your office almost 2 years ago commending you guys for your professional friendly service. I keep your name and office number in my important papers on my boat just in case... :D

[azgfboatgirl]

I keep your name and office number in my important papers on my boat just in case... :D
Just in case!?! LOL :eek: j/k
In case my boat tags are missing, call azgfboatgirl! LOL

[kap]

ITS ONLY MONEY:
Dear Sir:
Your language as previously noted is offensive and your demeanor suggests you are extremely uneducated when you respond in such a fashion.
Let me address your concerns as I own a Lavey and soon will own and take possession of a new Howard. I preface my comments with this statement so you do not make assumptions or allege any bias.
Manufacturers do not always get it right the first time. The 2750 hull being dangerous or ill handling is a conclusion made at the time. That conclusion is no longer valid as the Lavey people have made corrections in set-up and configuration to correct those problems. Those corrections and refinements have garnered them numerous awards and titles. Any questions or arguments please see Powerboat awards page online.
Manufacturers change X-dimensions, location of engines, and modify hulls to acheive the best results after feedback is received from customers, racing, and internal R & D. See Fountain, Donzi, and Cigarette for further examples.
You can choose any manufacturer and they will tell you refinement of a particular boat is an ongoing process. It just so happens some manufacturers do an awesome job early on ie... the Howard Bullet--- it is the exception and not the norm in the marine industry.
If I may be so bold as to inquire about the make, model and engine of the boat you currently own. It helps me when I have the opportunity to lambast you, praise your choice or chuckle over your misfortune.
Respectfully,
KAP

[Lavey29]

Just in case!?! LOL :eek: j/k
In case my boat tags are missing, call azgfboatgirl! LOL
Yep,, 1-800-boatgrl and 9-1-1 help Libby help... important numbers to keep handy...

[hotlavey]

You F$CKING MORON. You have chosen to ignore or fail to comment on EVERY post that brings out the allegations of SEVERE, DANGEROUS handling characteristics of a specific LAVEY hull. Me acting like a 2 year old? Not in your wildest dreams. This thread was not started to discuss Laveys but YOU decided to put your two cents (less than that actually) into the mix about your "wonderful" <sic> offshore boat and how a Howard or implied most other hulls couldn't hold a candle to it. Well, when you were called on that and presented commentary about the deficiencies in Lavey hulls - perceived by other third parties including Hot Boat Magazine and Powerboat editors - you clammed up, changed the subject or outright ignored them. Then in your assine manner say you want to debate boats? Right. Not debate at all but spew the Lavey party line. You disgust me with your rudeness. Now you want to discuss garages. Very to the point of hull efficiencies.
Let me turn up the volume a little:
EXACTLY WHY WAS THE 2750 NuERA NOT REVIEWED ABOUT ITS DEFECTIVE HULL AND DANGEROUS (WORDS OF ***boat EDITORS) HANDLING?
Could you hear that? Are you intelligent enough to understand that? The LAVEY Kool-aid worn off yet?
I don't expect you to post any quality response as you haven't yet to any part of this thread.
You're a real class act.

[laveydayz]

I absolutely wonder about that. But if my memory is correct, Howard only advertises in Powerboat 4-5 issues per year as opposed to full page ads every month... Stop wondering. I work for a large (un-named) company in the Motocross industry. I can tell you first hand that advertising horsepower has a BIG influence on your product tests/reviews. Im sure its the same deal in the boat industry.