New Flat Owner Questions

[BigJetDaddy]

I recently (saturday) purchased a 73 Sanger flat bottom without motor. It is set up for a BBC. It is my first V-drive. I have a Taylor Jet that I have owned for 19 years (only went through 3 motors in that time), and I have a direct drive inboard ski boat (mastercraft), so I am no stranger to boats or building motors.
My questions deal with what motor set up I should shoot for. I want to do a safe and honest 85mph and have a completely dependable set up. I have a 396 laying in pieces in my garage that I could come up with enough stuff to make about 450 horses. The boat has a Casale V-drive with about 15% overdrive. I have not taken it apart yet, but I spun the shaft ten times, and the prop went around about 11 1/2. The prop is a Menkens 11 1/2 x 16. Will this set up work with a BBC at 450hp? What RPM can I expect and what speed?
Is this cable / pulley steering system safe? Do I need to change it over to something more modern?
Does anyone know where I can buy a mechanical tach and cable. I want to restore this boat to near original and would like a cable driven tach. I looked in the Jegs catalog but didn't see any. Did I overlook it?
I am sure I will have many questions in the weeks ahead. I must get this thing together to give to my dad on his 70th birthday in July.
Greg
Cincinnati, Ohio

[infotraker]

Try CP Performance for most of the parts you may need (800-225-9871, web site cpperformance.com). I have used a cable steeering system since 1968 on my Schiada flat with little trouble. I now also have a 78 Sanger hydro with all gear and rod steering which works well but must be really expensive.

[Costello]

Greg,
(Disclaimer first: I'm no setup expert!! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif)
I think you will have to pull nearly 6800 RPM or so with the 1.15 gears in order to reach your goal of 85mph. The prop is about right dimension wise for the boat you are running. You may want to send it to Radiece through Menkens V-Drives to have it checked out, and reworked a little bit, but it's a good start. Your cable steering is fine as long as as the cables are in good shape and nice and tight. The only question here is will the 450hp get you the 6800 RPM and be reliable? Probably not. You more than likely need something a little bit more stout to pull that RPM and survive. Good luck!

[Snowboat]

Just curious. I've put three flatties together from scratch. July is a tight time frame if there is much wrong and you don't live in SoCal. Does the boat have everything in it so all you have to do is put your engine together and drop it in? If so, I would put a good rebuild on the engine with marine clearances, a 14 quart pan, making sure it is the correct application, rebearing the v drive, mine were all rusty from sitting, put a new chain on the steering post, and run it. Then next winter you'll know what it needs and you'll have time to cherry it out. If you're not close to others that have flats, you can tinker forever to get them right. When you finally get it, you'll know, your porpoise questions will be over.

[V-Drive Tom]

Greg I agree with what has been said. Put your 396 together with decent compression,10 1/2 plus. Large flat tappet cam or small roller cam. 6500 to 7000 will be good. You will be reaching your stated goal,85MPH. I have a 396/402 in my 75 sanger, revs only 6000, goes about 75 MPH,has been in boat for 13 seasons. Check the boat for safety,you and Dad will dig it! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif

[BigJetDaddy]

The boat is complete and ready for a motor, or so I was told. It had been last run in 2000, and I was told it had a 502 Crate motor in it and it went 83mph. I learned long ago that others tend to exaggerate speed numbers a little bit. A good cleaning is all this boat will take to be ready for a trial. I may have some questions down the road about how to plumb this thing. It has braided lines going every which way.
I plan to take the gear case apart this weekend. What should I look for as far as wear? I mean it is obvious if a gear is broken off or something, but is there any other wear indicator? What sort of gear oil do I use to refill it?
Also, the cover on the Casale case has a part number of 62500-2, but it has a lever on the output shaft that looks like the picture on v-drives.com showing a 3 dog something or other. Could this cover be from another case?
Sorry if the questions are pretty basic, but thank a bunch for all the help.
Greg

[Kurtis500]

From the serial # I would say a 12 degree v-drive. You will need a bearing puller to pull the top bearing, or you can use some sharp pry bars on opposite side. Either way, the bearing needs to come out before the case will come off. Use 90 wt gear lube if your using it for fun. The handle puts it in gear or in nuetral, the three dog is much better than the 2. You can hold the handle down and spin the shaft backwards, if you feel the handle want to gently 'ramp' up then you have the 3 dog. If it will drop straight in gear in only one position it is a 2 dog. With a 73 flat Sanger, a 450hp BBC, 15% in the box, and that prop you'll probably see 5500rpm and in the 70's somewhere after the quarter mile. Thats plenty fast. If you get more than that great!

[superdave013]

BigDaddy, If you need a bearing puller I can hook you up. They make life much easier to get them apart. I have been needing to make another batch so I might as well get on it now.
I know what you are going to say schiada96 but I need the money if ya know what I mean http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Costello]

The "SuperDave Homebrew Bearing Puller" works like a champ. I got a chance to use it when swapping gears in the 21'er. I highly reccommend it.

[superdave013]

Originally posted by Costello:
The "SuperDave Homebrew Bearing Puller" works like a champ. I got a chance to use it when swapping gears in the 21'er. I highly reccommend it.
I have been meaing to ask you, did you cryo feeze yours?
The Homebrew lable is pretty funny (but I like it). I do make them at "home" but what I use to make them is not a home type of machine. I have to sell alot of them to pay for that puppy.

[mister460]

You should also go out and grab a 454 block and throw the 396 crank in it. Voila! 427!! More power and you'll still be able to rev the piss out of it. Just my 1 cent (military doesn't pay enough for me to be giving out 2 whole cents!).

[Costello]

SuperDave,
I haven't been running the processor on a very regular basis. I have not run the bearing puller. I ran my block, crank, rods on the motor I was going to build, then bought another long block. I still intend to build the frozen deal. The only thing cryo treated on the boat right now is the prop. It doesn't rust up like a normal steel prop would. I have customers and sponsored boats that have run the nasty Phoenix water who tell me the same thing, very minimal rust. It closes up the grain structure to the point that the corrosive elements cannot penetrate the metal like a "normal" piece. We also see on high horsepower applications (Top Fuel) that if the heat treat is proper, the ears won't move on the first pass like they normally do after cryo. As for bearing pullers, I'm sure you can pull many more bearings before the edges wear out! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif On your home brew machine cutter bits, I've had anywhere from 50% to 1500% life increase on everything from carbide to high speed steel.

[058]

Cost, where is your cryo bus? I may have you do a couple of props for me.

[Bluefin]

Hey BigJetDaddy, I went to order a Jones Mechanical Tach the other day from Rex Marine and ran into a small snag. The manufacturer of the Tach has changed and the new guys have a list price of $389.00 through Rex. Long story short, If you want one........I can get you a tach for about $275.00. I have one on order myself. Let me know. Mike. EM is mdc@csdidaho.com

[WILDERTHANU]

I HAVE A BRAND NEW ONE FOR SALE! (JONES TACH) WITH TACH DRIVE FOR V-DRIVE!

[Costello]

058, we're in Roseville. www.calcryo.com (http://www.calcryo.com)

[058]

Thanks Cost....will be in touch.

[Stab-n-Steer]

058,
I drive through Roseville pretty frequently on my way to/from Nevada City... I'll be glad to drop them off or pick 'em up...
Thanks again for your help on that motor. I got it safely tucked away before my wife saw it!
S&S

[058]

Thanks, S&S May take you up on that. Now I just got to get off my ass and pull a prop.