Hybrid Vehicles?

[NOTALENT]

Thinking of getting a commuter car....something like a 2003 civic Hybrid....great gas mileage. Is there any special maintenance, how reliable are they...??

[Jbb]

read this thread (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144698&highlight=prius+hummer)

[76ANTHONY]

ya know, i figured out the price of a hybrid versus a normal vehicle of the same make and modle and id have to spend 3 times more for the overprice of the hybrid to make up for the fuel cost, fock that, i'll keep my ranger:D

[LAFD]

ide say rent one before you buy one. my uncle rented one to go to vegas thinking it was going to save him a bunch of money on gas but ended up costing him more in gas and taking longer to get there. he said it wouldnt pull hills worth crap everytime you come to a light the air conditioning turns off and starts just blowing warm air. i would say get a honda civic 4 banger stick they get awesome gas milage and you have just tad bit of power.

[SB]

That article contains some voodoo math:
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
My limited math tells me you should look at only the price you're going to pay. Others can worry about the price of nickel transport.
The hybrid is not bad if you drive a lot at 30 mph, or if you are stuck in traffic jams a lot. At regular highway speeds, the advantage of the hybrid almost disappears. With a used one, you will have to calculate battery replacement. Good luck.

[Outnumbered]

Buy a brand new Corolla CE or Civic DX. You can't get a lower cost per mile car, period. When you factor depreciation and 40 mpg into the initial cost, its a no-brainer. Unless you drive 75k per year the hybrid is a waste of money.

[NOTALENT]

Wow...thats a good read, and some awesome info. Thanks JBB. Looks like I will be sticking to a older civic like LAFD said. Still get around 30mpg and can find one cheap.
Thanks guys.

[RitcheyRch]

I bought a used 1998 Honda Civic LX, 4 door sedan a few years back. It had 106K miles on it when I bought it. It nows has 182K and still gets 32-35mpg and runs like new.

[Dave C]

get the regular civic because of what these guys said. I used to have an older one when I was in college and it got over 30 mpg.
Buying a new hybrid made a little more sense when you could get a tax credit for it which reduced the cost a bit. But the credit has expired and it only applied to brand new vehicles.
Now the only reason to get one is to hug a tree :D

[76ANTHONY]

Wow...thats a good read, and some awesome info. Thanks JBB. Looks like I will be sticking to a older civic like LAFD said. Still get around 30mpg and can find one cheap.
Thanks guys.
dam, your gettin wise in your old age :D :D :D

[2Driver]

Buy a brand new Corolla CE or Civic DX. You can't get a lower cost per mile car, period. When you factor depreciation and 40 mpg into the initial cost, its a no-brainer. Unless you drive 75k per year the hybrid is a waste of money.
Exactly, and replacement batteries are about $5K I hear. Who is going to buy your used hybrid after you are done with it?
In the end it is all about money and it doesn't add up. Diesel Jettas are a very safe car and get 45-50 MPG on the hwy. We had a TDI automatic and couldn't get less than 42 MPG around town.

[ChumpChange]

There are more things to consider other than the cost of the car when looking to buy a commuter car. I looked into this when I worked about 50 miles from home. If you think in the terms of gas mileage, it can look attractive. When you throw on the cost of insuring that other vehicle, the maintenance on it and generally the uncomfortablity of the smaller cars, your better off just having a decent middle of the road vehicle that you drive all the time.
I'd say just buy a big diesel truck.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Thinking of getting a commuter car....something like a 2003 civic Hybrid....great gas mileage. Is there any special maintenance, how reliable are they...??
When I decided that it made no sense for me to commute from So Cal to AZ in a V8 powered truck or a supercharged Mustang Cobra, I did a little research. I ended up buying a new Civic SI sedan and it was the best move I've made. At 75 MPH it gets over 34 mpg. It is powered by a 197 hp 4 cyl with 6 spd, so it still satisfies some of my performance needs, it handles very well, it is very comfortable and the sticker price was about 23K.
I made this change last Nov when gas prices were fairly cheap. Now that the price of gas is what it is I'm all :) :)
A non hybrid Civic, IMO, is the way to go.

[Baja Big Dog]

Love the numbers using 300,000 miles on a Hummer, now that's some funny stuff right there!!
A Hummer going 300k, the dog will fly when tht happens!:)

[Redwing247]

What happened to the bike ???

[OutCole'd]

Love the numbers using 300,000 miles on a Hummer, now that's some funny stuff right there!!
A Hummer going 300k, the dog will fly when tht happens!:)
Exactly, that's kinda what I was thinking also.

[Racey]

You're better off with a vw deisel for a commutter if you want good mileage, hybrids SUCK to drive, no power, and someone else said about the ac shuttin off, they cost tons more to begin with and i would say that in about 3-5 years you gonna be takin a big hit having to replace all the batteries....

[NOTALENT]

What happened to the bike ???
Still got her, but shes all raced out right now....All track fairings on. I need to get a new stock fairing stay to put the originals back on.

[cdog]

Did you see the new Penn and Teller Bull Sheit yet? Only Lesbos drive hybrids.:D

[PaPaG]

Thinking of getting a commuter car....something like a 2003 civic Hybrid....great gas mileage. Is there any special maintenance, how reliable are they...??
They are great, I have an '04 Prius with 56k and never been in the shop besides 2 factory recalls that were fixed within an hour or so and for no charge. I drive it to Cali and Havasu at least 3 times a month and it is as quick and comfortable as any comparable import out there.
We were so impressed I bought another one for my second half in May of 06..We now save roughly $750.00 a month in fuel on both vehicles vs our yukon that we sold and our other gas eater that we still own (boat hauler).
As far as driving across the desert, air is ice cold at all times, never turns off or cuts out, runs smooth as can expect with any other import, for a small car runs great in high winds and is as comfortable as can be expected this class of import.
Roughly 43-44mpg average at 77mph from vegas to cali and back. Has all the power up any hill or grade to keep it at 77mph or faster without effecting the ride, Can pass rigs or slower cars at will. Once in town can get as high as 50-52mpg (if we drive light footed) or 47-48 average with normal driving. Top end is 106mph constant and smooth while getting 32mpg avg. (gov kicks in).
Cost: (we get fleet price) for the 2004 was 22500 and we got 2k back in tax credit refund, 06 cost was 25500 and we got back a 3300 check for tax hybrid credit.
Unless you are talking too someone that owns one I would not pay too much attention to the critics that just know what they read and do not have any personal history with these models..
Finally, my reasons for buying one in the first place was NOT to save money on fuel. (Even though that is a great bonus and I can ad that to the reasoning now) I bought the first one because I was tired of seeing the oil rich middle eastern and south American companies building powerful Anti-US nations directly from the profits from the US. The fact that they are 95% Anti-American is enough to make me drive a Japanese car.

[PaPaG]

You're better off with a vw deisel for a commutter if you want good mileage, hybrids SUCK to drive, no power, and someone else said about the ac shuttin off, they cost tons more to begin with and i would say that in about 3-5 years you gonna be takin a big hit having to replace all the batteries....
Battery is warrantied for 8 year 100k miles, I had a friend that his bat went out and they replaced it for no charge at 85k, also the hybrid tracking sites show the prius averages 170-180k on the original bat pack with minor repair to other components. After all it is a Toyota.
As for power they are just as powerful as any import in its class...I suggest renting a new Prius and putting your foot in it and see how fast it really can go (in its class it will keep up to or surpass most in its class, you will be impressed)

[OutCole'd]

They are great, I have an '04 Prius with 56k and never been in the shop besides 2 factory recalls that were fixed within an hour or so and for no charge. I drive it to Cali and Havasu at least 3 times a month and it is as quick and comfortable as any comparable import out there.
We were so impressed I bought another one for my second half in May of 06..We now save roughly $750.00 a month in fuel on both vehicles vs our yukon that we sold and our other gas eater that we still own (boat hauler).
As far as driving across the desert, air is ice cold at all times, never turns off or cuts out, runs smooth as can expect with any other import, for a small car runs great in high winds and is as comfortable as can be expected this class of import.
Roughly 43-44mpg average at 77mph from vegas to cali and back. Has all the power up any hill or grade to keep it at 77mph or faster without effecting the ride, Can pass rigs or slower cars at will. Once in town can get as high as 50-52mpg (if we drive light footed) or 47-48 average with normal driving. Top end is 106mph constant and smooth while getting 32mpg avg. (gov kicks in).
Cost: (we get fleet price) for the 2004 was 22500 and we got 2k back in tax credit refund, 06 cost was 25500 and we got back a 3300 check for tax hybrid credit.
Unless you are talking too someone that owns one I would not pay too much attention to the critics that just know what they read and do not have any personal history with these models..
Finally, my reasons for buying one in the first place was NOT to save money on fuel. (Even though that is a great bonus and I can ad that to the reasoning now) I bought the first one because I was tired of seeing the oil rich middle eastern and south American companies building powerful Anti-US nations directly from the profits from the US. The fact that they are 95% Anti-American is enough to make me drive a Japanese car.
Battery is warrantied for 8 year 100k miles, I had a friend that his bat went out and they replaced it for no charge at 85k, also the hybrid tracking sites show the prius averages 170-180k on the original bat pack with minor repair to other components. After all it is a Toyota.
As for power they are just as powerful as any import in its class...I suggest renting a new Prius and putting your foot in it and see how fast it really can go (in its class it will keep up to or surpass most in its class, you will be impressed)
Well there you go, facts and not hear say. Thanks for the info.

[Big Kahunaa]

89 honda civic i get 38 mpg with the lift and taller tires

[PaPaG]

granted its 77mph but thats still NO WHERE near the 60mpg they advertise do adamently.
As far as the A/C issue.... I would think thatthe evaporator coil wouldnt warm up enough to cause the air to become hot unless you are stopped for a longer than normal stop. I dont think the hybrid technology is there quite yet to make it a very viable substitution for a gas car. Esp. if there is a problem with the hybrid there is really almost no way you can fix it yourself. There is WAY too much circuitry and programming in there to do a repair without a laptop, interface, and Toyota software. At least with a standard gas engine you can do SOME work yourself.
The VW TDI is a great car and in my opion would be the better option than the prius or another hybrid. The TDI gets into the high 40's for mpg and it runs diesel so the fuel costs less. And if diesel starts going up again there are always more options for alternative fuel for a diesel then there are for a gas car.
300miles / 44mpg = 6.82 gal.
6.82 gal x $3.25 gal. gas = $22.17
6.82 gal x $3.10 gal diesel = $21.14
minimal difference I know but where can you find gas for $3.25 is So Cal?
I totally agree with the false advertising of the 60mpg but all car companies do that including VW. In fact there is a new law that has them changing the rating system starting in 2008. I think the prius is going to be changed to state 11% less that what they currently state. (53.4mpg) which is still off real world numbers but getting closer to the real figure.
As far as repairs go, it is still a simple Toyota engine so very simple. The hybrid part is electric motor, battery, high tec circuitry and computer but have you ever looked under the hood of a 2007 American car? or even worse a German car. Most new cars are designed so you are forced to take them in to the dealer for most all repairs.
The TDI is a good car but it also has its share of possible problems. Diesel fuel has had a retail higher than regular for the past few years though. This past two months we have seen the prices swap but not for the last few years.
IMO I would vote for Pruis because I have had nothing but great experience with them, The TDI is a great car but not my choice. Both cost relatively the same, both get roughly the same MPG it is just up to the buyers preference.
PS. Lots of back yard tinkering (with research) can increase the prius MPG to 60-70 and for 3 or 4k you can take that all the way up to 100+mpg, for a total of 7-8k you can get 180-190mpg.. Again, It is NOT the cost that got me to buy the prius' it is my part in using less oil from the Anti-American countries. IT does not matter if I spend a few thousand bucks doing so either and I am sure most Americans that can afford to do so would also do it. If Texas or Alaska supplied all the oil the US consumes and all the $ goes to Americans here in America I would not hesitate paying the price of 2-3 or more a gallon..

[Kindsvater Flat]

I got the wife a Prius as a commutor to replace the expedition. The expedition was using about $150-$175 a week to drive. The prius cost us around $25-$30 a week to drive. We have taken it on a trip to Napa once and got around 43-45 mpg average but her weekly commutes is getting 51-52 mpg. Its loaded with all the voice command crap, nav, etc.. I think we made a good choice. Last tank was 422 miles on 8 gallons.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/gallery/albums/userpics/prius.jpg

[AZJD]

Brandon, I got a 2500HD you can buy.....:D

[PaPaG]

I got the wife a Prius as a commutor to replace the expedition. The expedition was using about $150-$175 a week to drive. The prius cost us around $25-$30 a week to drive. We have taken it on a trip to Napa once and got around 43-45 mpg average but her weekly commutes is getting 51-52 mpg. Its loaded with all the voice command crap, nav, etc.. I think we made a good choice. Last tank was 422 miles on 8 gallons.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/gallery/albums/userpics/prius.jpg
You easily have 10.5 usable gallons so don't be shy to take it to 480-500 per tank (as long as you are keeping up the averages) when the fuel warning beeps you still have 1 to 3 gallons depending on what year prius you have. I have an 04 and on the last bar for fuel just after the warning beep I get 100-120miles roughly 2.5 gallons, on our newer 2006 when the warning beep sounds and the last fuel bar blinks you should have 3/4 to 1 gallon or safely about 30-40 or so miles. I have run both to the limit multiple times to see where they run out and with both you can still drive about 2 miles on just battery power. (not smart to keep doing but I like to test the averages)

[Kindsvater Flat]

Its a 2007. We've had it for a couple months now. Got it through Costco Auto.

[Oldsquirt]

As far as the A/C issue.... I would think thatthe evaporator coil wouldnt warm up enough to cause the air to become hot unless you are stopped for a longer than normal stop.
A little info regarding Air Conditioning and the Prius. In the first generation Prius the AC compressor was belt driven, so if the engine was "off" the compressor was "off". This would only be a problem if sitting still for a long time. Of course if you put it on "MAX" AC, the engine would run even if vehicle was at a stop(costs a little more fuel) and you would have full AC at all times.
The second(current) generation Prius drives the AC compressor with an electric motor which is integrated into the compressor. Full AC operation is always available, regardless of engine operation.

[bigq]

The article was written by a guy all for the hybrids and the pollution it takes to make the prius is off the chart. the batteries are a killer on the environment to make. If you want good mileage go ahead and get one, but if you care at all about the enviroment i would stay away from the prius. There are other hybrids that do not kill the forest around the manufacturing plant you can buy.:rolleyes:

[OCMerrill]

As said above the only thing that concerns me is they will become very undesirable used. So unless you plan on keeping it forever then its a lease deal and a math lesson on how much you can really save.
Some peeps just like the feel of Green Power....
That is until they read how Nickel Batteries are made:sqeyes:

[RitcheyRch]

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_139102632.html
Those yellow keyhole-shaped carpool stickers on hybrids and other qualifying high-mileage, low emission vehicles are worth about $4,000 when it comes to resale prices, it was reported.
A Kelly Blue Book survey shows Toyota Prius vehicles with a high occupancy vehicle (HOV) sticker, which allows solo drivers to cruise the carpool lanes, were listed for an average of $4,000 more than those without, according to media reports.
"Drivers in California clearly see the benefit of saving time," said Kelley Blue Book spokeswoman Robyn Eckard.
The Department of Motor Vehicles issued 85,000 of the nontransferable stickers at $8 apiece. Hybrids were eligible due to their low emissions.
Of 60 Prius vehicles listed on cars.com, just three with carpool stickers were advertised, ranging in price from $11,900 to $23,856. Toyota's base price is $22,175.
The state has stopped issuing the stickers for hybrids. The only way to obtain one is to replace an existing sticker. Otherwise drivers of electric or compressed natural gas (CNG) vehicles can obtain the stickers from the Air Resources Board.

[PaPaG]

As said above the only thing that concerns me is they will become very undesirable used. So unless you plan on keeping it forever then its a lease deal and a math lesson on how much you can really save.
Some peeps just like the feel of Green Power....
That is until they read how Nickel Batteries are made:sqeyes:
Sorry your research is off, Resale of the Prius' have been and are still very hot even 6 years later. As for the use of the nickel batteries that will change soon to.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Dang.. after all this I think I will keep my car..:D