I Wrote Precision Fiberglass A Bad Check.....Absolutely

[Psycho Squid]

I Wrote Precision Fiberglass a Bad check. No I Made it Bad. Some of you know and I don't advertise here on the boards but I'm Petrovich Performance Engeering Here in LHC. I was contracted by one of my customers to repair his boat and Sub-contracted Scott @ Precision Boat Werx to do some Cosmetic repairs to the Vessel. After 4 failed attempts at repairing this vessel and several days he calls me to pick it up. I do. Upon picking it up the repair is unsatisfactory and he never even started the repair on the bottom and asks me to bring it back this week on Tues because he had a 38 footer he has a commitment to. Oh yea and can I have a $400.00 check I have bills and can't float all of these jobs myself, Being a Mom and Pop shop myself I said OK! He tells me to bring the boat back on Mon and he will do the bottom and re-do his failed repair for the 5 time! I call him on Mon and he tells me he will call me back to schedule & that Tues should be ok hangs up never calls back to confirm. Tues morning I call him and he tells me the failed repair is good enough and that he can't get to the bottom work to f u c k i n g bad for my customer. With that said being late in the day made sure funds were not available and have since stoped payment. Scott calls me and threatens me in several ways.........I say we can resolve this right now, straighten out your failed repair and finish the bottom I have the cash in hand. He Refuses. He tells me he wants to speak to the boat owner my customer ( who also is unhappy with the repair.) I said I am your customer I sub contracted the repair to you. So.........What does Scott @ Precision Boat Werx do...............
He calls the manufacturer of the vessel tells them the boat owner and a guy not even associated with this project wrote him a bad check. Then calls my customer which tells Precision Boat Werx I have no business with you PPE is handleing my repairs, Then proceeds to call every glass shop in Havasu to slander my name. On top of all this has Officer Dodge from LHPD call me to tell me not to have any contact with Precision Boat Werx and to Take it to Small Claims Court. Now........With all this said, Scott calls me yesterday and wants another shot at my business. Scott says he wants me to bring the boat back to him. NOT ON YOUR LIFE BUD.
I have since contracted my regular glass people to finish the job and repair Scotts work. I now have a Stop Payment on the check so he can't re-deposit it. I have put $ 400.00 in an envelope pending a court decision and plan on back charging Precision Boat Werx the cost of repairing his mistake.
I feel I acted in the best interest of my customer. The customer should get quality repairs for the money spent. I think Scott is a good guy but has shown a lack of ethics and poor judgement on this matter.
Just for the record my customers boat will be ready as promised even if this event with Precision Boat Worx costs me money. I PPE bid the repair and have been paid by the boat owner. It's my job to Oversee all aspects and see my customer gets quality repairs......Even from my sub contractors!
One more for the record..........I'd make the check bad or stop payment again I don't think people should have to pay twice for the same work.
Thanks Hot Boat, This man Scott at Precision Boat Works is trying to slander me here on these boards already and in this community. If any one has comments or questions please feel free to contact me. This is the only post I will make on this subject. I look fwd to continuing to serve the boating community.
John Petrovich
Petrovich Performance Automotive and Marine
LHC 928-208-0830
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/IMG_09881.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/34.jpg

[RiverDave]

Post pictures of the repair.. I realize sometimes it's hard to take a picture that will actually show something with slight variations in color on gel etc.. (like taking pictures of polished parts is sometimes hard) but if you can take a picture of the repair, and it is in fact sub par (as you claim) then I think your reputation would certainly be in the clear as far as ***boat is concerned. Make sure when you take the pictures it's hard to tell exactly which F-26 it is that was repaired. It being the case that the owner actually took the boat to a business, and that biz subcontracted to another, I'm not sure they should get tangled up in all this.
Incidentally, this certainly puts an entirely different twist on the story. I'm curious to see how this all works out.
I've never dealth with Scott/Ducky on a business level, but I've talked to him many times and planned on using him in the future. From my conversations with the guy, I can't imagine he'd fock somebody intentionally. He always seemed pretty stand up to me.
Insuficient Funds, and Stop Payment are two different things entirely though..
One makes it sounds like you can't pay your bills, another sounds like your not happy with the work. I'm not even sure how you can get a check to bounce nowdays with overdraft protection etc?
RD

[phebus]

What we need, is a ***boat arbitrator. :D Lots of he said, she said stories.

[IMPATIENT 1]

__ck that dude!! if the customer trusts you enough to bring ya the boat, he damn well trusts your judgement on this matter and i think your being a stand-up guy for trying to make it rite even on your own $$

[YeLLowBoaT]

as i said in the other thread... the less that is said outside of the court room the better. IT could come back and bite you in the ass.

[Captain Dan]

Is this the first time you sub-contracted with this person? It seems you are going about it the right way to make good for your customer, but if I were the customer I would expect for you only to sub-contract work to someone that you know, trust and will stand behind their work.
Hope it works out OK for all.

[Rexone]

What we need, is a ***boat arbitrator. :D Lots of he said, she said stories.
They say there's three sides to most stories and always 2. I did get a kick out of the first thread tho with the mob mentality after hearing one side.
Nothing's changed round here I guess.... :)

[riverratrob]

Post pictures of the repair.. I realize sometimes it's hard to take a picture that will actually show something with slight variations in color on gel etc.. (like taking pictures of polished parts is sometimes hard) but if you can take a picture of the repair, and it is in fact sub par (as you claim) then I think your reputation would certainly be in the clear as far as ***boat is concerned. Make sure when you take the pictures it's hard to tell exactly which F-26 it is that was repaired. It being the case that the owner actually took the boat to a business, and that biz subcontracted to another, I'm not sure they should get tangled up in all this.
Incidentally, this certainly puts an entirely different twist on the story. I'm curious to see how this all works out.
I've never dealth with Scott/Ducky on a business level, but I've talked to him many times and planned on using him in the future. From my conversations with the guy, I can't imagine he'd fock somebody intentionally. He always seemed pretty stand up to me.
Insuficient Funds, and Stop Payment are two different things entirely though..
One makes it sounds like you can't pay your bills, another sounds like your not happy with the work. I'm not even sure how you can get a check to bounce nowdays with overdraft protection etc?
RDso much for the lynch mob .Well I agree with RD pic's will tell the tale .

[Ziggy]

I think they are both better off not saying anything else here.............either they will work it out or Judge Joe Brown will work it out for them

[Jordy]

I did get a kick out of the first thread tho with the mob mentality after hearing one side.
Nothing's changed round here I guess.... :)
You noticed that too huh??? Now that thread should get interesting when the backpeddling starts. :D :D :D

[76ANTHONY]

You noticed that too huh??? Now that thread should get interesting when the backpeddling starts. :D :D :D
i think you should moderate this one jordy:D :D

[Jordy]

either they will work it out or Judge Joe Brown will work it out for them
Seeing how it's a DCB, wouldn't Judge Orange be a better choice to preside over this dispute??? :D

[Ziggy]

Seeing how it's a DCB, wouldn't Judge Orange be a better choice to preside over this dispute??? :D
LOL.......that'll work

[Captain Dan]

Is this the first time you sub-contracted with this person? It seems you are going about it the right way to make good for your customer, but if I were the customer I would expect for you only to sub-contract work to someone that you know, trust and will stand behind their work.
Hope it works out OK for all.
I'll quote myself here - I just now read the other thread. The other side of the story seems to negate the ramblings of this thread. I still stand behind what I said for general business practice, but there's always another side to the story.
Pictures of the work product should tell the truth.......

[RiverDave]

They say there's three sides to most stories and always 2. I did get a kick out of the first thread tho with the mob mentality after hearing one side.
Nothing's changed round here I guess.... :)
Nope..
RD <--- still standing here with a pitchfork, and a torch. :D

[Ziggy]

Nope..
RD <--- still standing here with a pitchfork, and a torch. :D
No Drum Sticks Dave? ;) :D

[b's sanger]

If I were able to pay my trailer repair with a check, I would have stopped payment too. Hopefully you took some pics to prove your case. A court case for $400.00, not likely, but it sure would go along way here on the boards to compare the work.
Word of mouth goes along way on the boards and in this community, just ask Stan the Rip Off Man at Holiday RV and Marine Bullhead City Az. He has lost some serious cash from potential customers here after my posts of his debauchle.

[bordsmnj]

i just saved a bundle on my car insurance.

[JMC]

From the sounds of it the guy tried to fix it 3 or 4 times and he knew it wasn't right. I wouldn't want someone trying to fix my hull 3 or 4 times. You helped him out by fronting the check and he craped on your foot. I would chalk it up as a $400 lesson AND you got your money back. :)

[DUCKY]

I was trying to be nice by not mentioning your name....
I hope it felt good when you bent your wank backwards and inserted it into your own tailpipe........
Now then... I am not going to lie and say that the repair was perfect. There are some very minor flaws (not even visible in the pics) that I instructed both the boat owner, and P.S., that I would be more than happy to repair if SOMEONE (I don't care who) would just make good on the check.....
However, I am not willing to invest any more time in the job without some form of guaranteed payment.
The flaws are so minor that I had to point them out to the owner of the boat. Anyone that didn't know that the boat was repaired would never notice them.
>>>edit: Photo of check removed. Do NOT post personal infomation on this forum that the owner of that infomation has not already made public.

[Psycho Squid]

As requested the pictures of the failed repair and undone bottom work!:idea:

[yopengo]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/yopengo/moof1.gif

[RiverDave]

nevermind

[jdogginla]

Just my .02, but there is a difference between stop'n payment on a check due to not being satisfied with the services rendered, versus Non Sufficient Funds!
You can't write a bad check and then say you were unhappy with the work.....

[Ziggy]

Might be more appropriate if you removed the owners name from the the picture discriptions.

[DUCKY]

From the sounds of it the guy tried to fix it 3 or 4 times and he knew it wasn't right. I wouldn't want someone trying to fix my hull 3 or 4 times. You helped him out by fronting the check and he craped on your foot. I would chalk it up as a $400 lesson AND you got your money back. :)
There was no "fronting" of a check. P.S. paid me for completed services, picked up the boat, and shook my hand.
I did re-spray the job 3 times before I was pleased enough with the outcome to send it out with my name on it. This was done under my own power.
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention that the day that P.S. Picked up the boat is the day that he also scheduled it to come back to clean up the bottom, and also brought HIS OWN BOAT by for an estimate?
There was never a problem with the quality of my work until the check went bad.

[DUCKY]

Might be more appropriate if you removed the owners name from the the picture discriptions.
So noted.....

[RiverDave]

pics didn't show anything.
RD

[Psycho Squid]

Here are the pics i'll let hot boat decide. give me a moment I have to resize.

[DUCKY]

Is the area in question on and around the chine on the sponson?
RD
No. The repaired area is on the cap area where molding would be if it had any. The white stuff is just buffing compound that I didn't get washed off.....
I was told not to even wash the boat since it was to be detailed when I was done.

[Nord]

must be a bad pic because where it looks capped looks good. Maybe a little ripple at the bottom of the cap towards where the molding actually is?? Hard to tell.

[b's sanger]

I was trying to be nice by not mentioning your name....
I hope it felt good when you bent your wank backwards and inserted it into your own tailpipe........
Now then... I am not going to lie and say that the repair was perfect. There are some very minor flaws (not even visible in the pics) that I instructed both the boat owner, and P.S., that I would be more than happy to repair if SOMEONE (I don't care who) would just make good on the check.....
However, I am not willing to invest any more time in the job without some form of guaranteed payment.
The flaws are so minor that I had to point them out to the owner of the boat. Anyone that didn't know that the boat was repaired would never notice them.
>>>edit: Photo of check removed. Do NOT post personal infomation on this forum that the owner of that infomation has not already made public.
Sounds like you had several opportunities to fix it right. You can defineitly see that area has some issues in the pic.

[DUCKY]

must be a bad pic because where it looks capped looks good. Maybe a little ripple at the bottom of the cap towards where the molding actually is?? Hard to tell.
No ripple. You're seeing the reflection of the trailer under the other boat.....

[DUCKY]

Sounds like you had several opportunities to fix it right. You can defineitly see that area has some issues in the pic.
Really?:eek: Do you need a job? It sounds like you have better eyes than I do.....

[jdogginla]

So what Psycho is trying to say is that he "made is check no good" by making sure there was no money in his account and making the check bounce? Ohh K. Why wouldn't you just stop the payment.....costs you more to have to deal with a bounced check than to stop payment.
Again stop'n payment for services rendered vs. Non sufficient Funds.....seems pretty clear how one party found the easy way out by saying he wasn't happy. I know if I'm not happy I would of written in the note section of the check that it was to be fixed at a later date to satisfaction.
again my two pennies don't mean much but they're mine and you can have em

[b's sanger]

I suppose we can't do a honest comparison without some high def. pics. Do we have any before pics?

[b's sanger]

Really?:eek: Do you need a job? It sounds like you have better eyes than I do.....
No, I was going with what I thought was the issue on the one pic. See my previous post, it's quite neutral.

[Psycho Squid]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/IMG_09881.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/54.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/34.jpg

[b's sanger]

Appears to need some more TLC detail work for the swirls/scratches. Sorry Ducky, no offense but looks like you need another detail guy. Now how each of you actually handled the discussions, none of us will know unless we here you both agree on what was said.

[Psycho Squid]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/27.jpg

[RiverDave]

There was no "fronting" of a check. P.S. paid me for completed services, picked up the boat, and shook my hand.
I did re-spray the job 3 times before I was pleased enough with the outcome to send it out with my name on it. This was done under my own power.
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention that the day that P.S. Picked up the boat is the day that he also scheduled it to come back to clean up the bottom, and also brought HIS OWN BOAT by for an estimate?
There was never a problem with the quality of my work until the check went bad.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/IMG_09881.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/54.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/34.jpg
Psycho Squid, did you do any wetsanding, or polishing/waxing after the fact? Or is that the way it left Ducky's shop?
RD

[b's sanger]

Why don't you guys come to a compromise and subtract the cost of the detail work. Then we all can be friends again. :D

[moneysucker]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/SSPX0017.JPG
Is the area in question on and around the chine on the sponson?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/SSPX0019.JPG
RD
I say circle the area but if it is where I think it is, I can totally see a problem that I would not accept. But I am very particular.

[RiverDave]

Check out the new pics Money Sucker... that was just some rubbing compound. Those pics don't show anything.
The new pics seem to have alot of orange peel to them, scratches/sanding marks, and a kind of "fade" in the black around the capped seam?
I've seen one of Ducky's repairs before.. and honestly It didn't look anything like that?
I can't imagine Ducky letting that go as the final job..
RD

[Psycho Squid]

There is more, Scott delivered the boat this way........Just as I stated. The owner was here yesterday and went over the boat with Scott and left it up to me if I wanted to give Scott any more chances........I declined. Just shows how Scott is trying to fool people. It was late and We had to pull the money couldn't stop the check in time.........Scotts wife works at the Bank!!!;)

[b's sanger]

Did the $400.00 estimate include the bottom work or just the cap area?

[Psycho Squid]

Check out the new pics Money Sucker... that was just some rubbing compound. Those pics don't show anything.
The new pics seem to have alot of orange peel to them, scratches/sanding marks, and a kind of "fade" in the black around the capped seam?
I've seen some of Ducky's repairs before.. and honestly I don't think I've ever seen one that looks like that?
RDCheck out the blotches and thin color... Looks like he over sanded right past the black then clears over it. Un-exceptable!

[Psycho Squid]

Did the $400.00 estimate include the bottom work or just the cap area?The bottom was for additional money! He did a poor repair and never even touched the bottom.........Including both sponsons.

[b's sanger]

Perhaps you two can come to an agreement to services rendered. If it's just detail work thats needed subtract that. If its additional spraying etc... then i guess that option is out.

[RiverDave]

Disregarding the rest of the story, if that was the end product I wouldn't pay for that.
Being that there was some shady shiznit going on with g/f's checking accounts, insuficient funds etc.. Give him the 50 bucks for materials to call it even and take it to another gel shop in town. It's not like there isn't 30 of them in 5 miles..
Try Fiberglass reformations, or Dave's fiberglass etc..
That's the way I see it anyways..
RD

[HM]

Disregarding the rest of the story, if that was the end product I wouldn't pay for that.
Being that there was some shady shiznit going on with g/f's checking accounts, insuficient funds etc.. Give him the 50 bucks for materials to call it even and take it to another gel shop in town. It's not like there isn't 30 of them in 5 miles..
Try Fiberglass reformations, or Dave's fiberglass etc..
That's the way I see it anyways..
RD
He could always take it to Barney. :D

[Jbb]

Check out the blotches and thin color... Looks like he over sanded right past the black then clears over it. Un-exceptable!
.......Jordy sez......Unacceptable.......:D

[b's sanger]

I'm not up on AZ law, but in Ca i believe there are guidlines for allowing the merchant to make things right. In this case, Psycho has lost confidence in the workmanship. I know if I was offered some percentage off on my trailer and Holiday RV & Marine weren't such pricks, I would not have gone to all the trouble to post it here. Wasn't worth me traveling to AZ to fight it. I'm just saying that it would nice if they both could come to a compromise.
Lets all have a group hug!!!!!

[Jbb]

He could always take it to Barney. :D
:D :D :D

[Psycho Squid]

I'm not up on AZ law, but in Ca i believe there are guidlines for allowing the merchant to make things right. In this case, Psycho has lost confidence in the workmanship. I know if I was offered some percentage off on my trailer and Holiday RV & Marine weren't such pricks, I would not have gone to all the trouble to post it here. Wasn't worth me traveling to AZ to fight it. I'm just saying that it would nice if they both could come to a compromise.
Lets all have a group hug!!!!!After 5 tries Scott contacting the customer and the MFG, The abuse and slander here in Havi, Contacting other repair facilities to slander me. I'll take my Punishment........But my customer.............He is going to be happy with the repairs because regardless of cost I'm going to make it so. I think this might be over Scotts capacity. That's ok all he had to say was I can't get this one. Maybe he believes this is a good repair. Not in my eyes on a $ 100,000.00 + boat.

[DUCKY]

No, the repair did not look like that when it left here. Thanks for scrubbing my repair with acetone.
I am only going to say this once and I am done. I will let the judge decide what is right. I did not build my business on pissing people off, and WILL STILL redo the job if the funds are made good, even though your pics make it obvious to anyone that knows gelcoat that you have destroyed my finish work for the purpose of making your photos more convincing.
As far as the bottom goes, I did not throw the boat out of my shop due to other commitments. I finished one job, and was paid in full for it, and the boat was to be brought back for more work on the bottom. I chose to postpone the additional work when the check went bad the first time. There was no problems with the quality of my work until the check went bad, and PS didn't have the money. The only reason has has the money now, is because the owner already fronted him the money for the bottom repairs.
There is one golden BB to this whole story, and that is....
Why would you take a $25-$35 NSF fee (2x) and risk criminal prosecution, instead one $10-15 stop payment charge?
Anyone that knows both of us will find it easy to decide which is lying.
Ya'll have a nice day!!!
I am going to go back to work doing what I do best, which is making my customers happy. I don't have time for this.

[Psycho Squid]

BTW the customer is not going to be to happy with scott posting whole photos of his boat like this. All I can say is I still stand by my actions.

[Nord]

Not in my eyes on a $ 100,000.00 + boat.
BINGO......
Or is that what you get for 400 bucks???
~NORD~

[Jbb]

Ya'll have a nice day!!!
I am going to go back to work doing what I do best, which is making my customers happy. I don't have time for this.
I dont have a dog in this fight......and could care less about the outcome........but aren't you the one who brought this issue to Hot Boat?

[Psycho Squid]

This Ain't Psyco Squid !!! This is Flat Head. I feel the need to weigh in on this one!! I was there when the boat was picked up. The spots you see in Squid's enlarged photo's are a combination of dirt under the gel, and pits. There are visible sanding marks, clouding, poor paint match and blend, and the VENDOR blew Squid off on the additional work rather rudlely! This repair CANNOT be fixed with a detail. In direct sunlight, you can see the under lying color showing thru. THIS BOAT IS NOT A GLASTRON!!!!! IT'S A DCB!!!! And if you think I do not know anything about fiberglass and gelcoat repair, fell free to check me out with some of my friends in the industry. This guy should be ashamed to let this kind of work leave his shop even if it was FREE!!!

[OCMerrill]

NSF Check gives you no leverage in court.
You need to pay for the work then take him to court for the claimed crappy repair.
Take better pictures as we are all have trouble seeing it clearly. I'm sure the problem exists because its admitted by both sides basically.
As it stands right now...Jennifer :( Has produced a bad check.
It will fall on her head.

[Jbb]

THIS BOAT IS NOT A GLASTRON!!!!! IT'S A DCB!!!!
Where ....oh where is Brown......when you need him.....lmao...:D

[OCMerrill]

Where ....oh where is Brown......when you need him.....lmao...:D
You know if this thread involved fecal material he would be on right quick!:D

[Psycho Squid]

Flat Head lost his pass word to post so he posted under my name He is somewhat credible ...........retired Law enforcement

[HavasuBarney]

Flat Head lost his pass word to post so he posted under my name He is somewhat credible ...........retired Law enforcement
Law Enforcement... that means he lied for a living and was picked on as a kid!
Besides I don't see any cracks, that shit good to me!
Pay the man!
:)

[Psycho Squid]

NSF Check gives you no leverage in court.
You need to pay for the work then take him to court for the claimed crappy repair.
Take better pictures as we are all have trouble seeing it clearly. I'm sure the problem exists because its admitted by both sides basically.
As it stands right now...Jennifer :( Has produced a bad check.
It will fall on her head.I'm having my regular glass people repair scotts work and finish the repairs this week. When my customer is pleased and I have an invoice for fixing Scotts work I'll deal with scott. Understand scotts wife works at the bank, it was to late to stop payment so we withdrew enough money out of the bank so he couldn't cash it then we were able to put a stop payment on it a a later time so he can't re-deposit it.

[Psycho Squid]

Law Enforcement... that means he lied for a living and was picked on as a kid!
Besides I don't see any cracks, that shit good to me!
Pay the man!
:)Hey I'm sure he can prob do a good job on yours.:D
Maybe seriously I'm not willing to with my customer.

[RiverDave]

Law Enforcement... that means he lied for a living and was picked on as a kid!
Besides I don't see any cracks, that shit good to me!
Pay the man!
:)
Barney, did you see the second set of Photo's? They didn't look all that great to me?
RD

[HavasuBarney]

He could always take it to Barney. :D
:jawdrop:

[HavasuBarney]

Barney, did you see the second set of Photo's? They didn't look all that great to me?
RD
Honestly, I couldn't see much in the pictures.
The other thing is all the gel and glass guys in Havasu are fairly tight.
Everybody has worked with each other and learned from each other.
Scott's been doing this awhile and is as competent as anyone plus I know he's pretty sensitive about things. Maybe he didn't get it right the first or second time, oops.
He can and would make it right given the chance. I know that.
Just for the record, every since I took the job at DCB doing all their gel work I don’t have time to work on my boats. Scott did the last job I had and did an outstanding job.
The job prior to that, I took to Dave’s Fiberglass. Dave can be a frickin artist. That guy has great skills. Over the years he has not worn a respirator and may be a little difficult to talk to but he can do the best work I’ve seen. The last job he did for me, I was not happy with. That’s why we went to Scott.
Sometimes shit just goes wrong. Hopefully we can all get the chance to right the wrongs.
I can’t speak for all the business dealings here but you can’t blame Scott for not wanting to work for free. You also can not blame the customer for wanting his shit right.
From the outside looking in the only real way to get a win win would be for Scott to complete the work correctly and get paid for his work.
I know for a fact he has the skill level to do it right.
Now let's see some nudes of the bad check writer and settle this whole mess!
:)

[Havasu1986]

About 6 years ago I took my boat to a shop on the lake side of the highway. I can't remember the name of the shop but he was a blond guy maybe 40's or 50's. I think he was German. Anybody know who I am thinging of. He did a great job on my boat BTW.:)

[dmontzsta]

Not to get in the middle of it too much. I own my business and when I mess up, things do not go down like this, I feel this is wrong and the owner of the boat is not being a man and dealing with it head on (now there is two sides to every story). I have messed up my fair share of jobs, bottom line is the customer still pays me for the work, but I fix it. In this case Ducky did the work correct? but, there is some minor detail work that was not finished, so why shouldnt he be paid? that is BS IMO. I am sure if this was dealt with directly, he would fix it, I know I would.
Just to clear things, I do not know Ducky or the owner personally, this is just my $.02.
Pay the man and let him make good on it, dont hold back money for services he did, I am sure he has a family to feed.
I had a customer hold payment for a messed up job, you know what it did? made me leary that I was going to be ripped off and made the fix a hell of a lot more difficult to deal with on both ends, cause we lost trust. Then I have had people pay me and I was in a panic trying to get it right so I could keep them happy.
The road runs both ways...

[Psycho Squid]

Not to get in the middle of it too much. I own my business and when I mess up, things do not go down like this, I feel this is wrong and the owner of the boat is not being a man and dealing with it head on (now there is two sides to every story). I have messed up my fair share of jobs, bottom line is the customer still pays me for the work, but I fix it. In this case Ducky did the work correct? but, there is some minor detail work that was not finished, so why shouldnt he be paid? that is BS IMO. I am sure if this was dealt with directly, he would fix it, I know I would.
Just to clear things, I do not know Ducky or the owner personally, this is just my $.02.
Pay the man and let him make good on it, dont hold back money for services he did, I am sure he has a family to feed.
I had a customer hold payment for a messed up job, you know what it did? made me leary that I was going to be ripped off and made the fix a hell of a lot more difficult to deal with on both ends, cause we lost trust. Then I have had people pay me and I was in a panic trying to get it right so I could keep them happy.
The road runs both ways...I was paid by the owner of the boat I sub contracted the work to scott. He has already admitted in this thread he tried three times actually 4 and the repair is still poor. Also has committed un ethical business practices I'm wrong on alot of things Not this one .......Please re-read this thread from the top. Tell ya what I'm making a small deposit on Mon. Returning what I removed I think I have the $400.00 wait till mon I will show my hand. Couldn't re-deposit untill I was sure I had a stop payment. Let scott try to re deposit or his banker wife. This is about scott trying to force or enbarrass me into paying for his poor repair. ( trust me money is an issue sometimes............Not in this case for me on this issue. I do respect your opinion though.

[rmarion]

Both of you are responsible.....your both in the Business, you know how it should be handled.
1. The repair should be remedied by Ducky. Ducky & Psycho should agree that repairs were completed properly and to the owners liking.
2. Psycho should pay the $400 Bill.
3. $400 aint CHIT and don't cover the time spent on the prior repairs.
4. If the repairs were suspect, the boat should not have been picked up.
BTW thanks for the entertainment............
Be Men about it............not Boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been in Business since 1985, completed over 10,000 projects. I've had three unhappy customers..............the three were WOMEN.........how I resolved those projects...........I dealt with their Husbands............

[dmontzsta]

I was paid by the owner of the boat I sub contracted the work to scott. He has already admitted in this thread he tried three times actually 4 and the repair is still poor. Also has committed un ethical business practices I'm wrong on alot of things Not this one .......Please re-read this thread from the top. Tell ya what I'm making a small deposit on Mon. Returning what I removed I think I have the $400.00 wait till mon I will show my hand. Couldn't re-deposit untill I was sure I had a stop payment. Let scott try to re deposit or his banker wife. This is about scott trying to force or enbarrass me into paying for his poor repair. ( trust me money is an issue sometimes............Not in this case for me on this issue. I do respect your opinion though.
If Scott doesnt think he can fix it right, then the job should be heavily discounted IMO.

[DUCKY]

Yes, my wife works at a local bank, but it's not the bank that check was drawn against so don't even attempt to go there. There is no gray area there, she has her job and I have mine.
In fact, her name isn't even on my account.
Now back to the facts....
I deposited the check into my bank account on 5/7, the check hit their bank on 5/9, and it was returned to my bank on 5/11. After contacting PS, I re-deposited the check. It hit their bank again on 5/14, and was returned to me again on 5/16. Now that the check has been stamped NSF twice, my bank will not accept it for deposit again.

[RiverDave]

I like Ducky as much as the next guy, but you guys are focking nuts if you think someone should pay for that job.. It looks like shiat, and honestly at this point I don't think I'd be taking it back to Ducky at all. He said earlier in this thread
There was no "fronting" of a check. P.S. paid me for completed services, picked up the boat, and shook my hand.
I did re-spray the job 3 times before I was pleased enough with the outcome to send it out with my name on it. This was done under my own power.
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention that the day that P.S. Picked up the boat is the day that he also scheduled it to come back to clean up the bottom, and also brought HIS OWN BOAT by for an estimate?
There was never a problem with the quality of my work until the check went bad.
He also said
Now then... I am not going to lie and say that the repair was perfect. There are some very minor flaws (not even visible in the pics) that I instructed both the boat owner, and P.S., that I would be more than happy to repair if SOMEONE (I don't care who) would just make good on the check.....
However, I am not willing to invest any more time in the job without some form of guaranteed payment.
The flaws are so minor that I had to point them out to the owner of the boat. Anyone that didn't know that the boat was repaired would never notice them.
On one hand he's saying the job was completed, and he should be paid. Then he said it wasn't completed (not perfect), then he said nobody would ever notice. flip, flop, flip, flop, etc.. That's the tell tale sign right there.
Let me say something here. When a gel job is patched correctly you should never even be able to tell there was something there to begin with. I was betting dollars to donuts in the beginning that psycho squid was just trying to come up with an excuse not to pay..
I figured pictures would kind of prove that case. In reality even a mediocre gel repair I seriously doubt you'd be able to see it on a camera, up close or not. For pictures to come out like this though? I can only imagine what it looks like in person, and I for one would be focking pissed if that was my boat, I'm talking really focking pissed.
Point in fact I'm kinda pissed right now becuase I was seriously thinking about taking some work over there towards the end of summer. I've heard that line about "Being good enough to send it out of my shop with my name on it" and it was kind of one of the things that originally made me talk to Ducky. Well there it is, he said he did this 3 times to be good enough to put his name on it, and this is the result?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/34.jpg
If you can't see the problems with that your blind.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/54.jpg
If you can't see the blotches again your blind.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/27.jpg
If you can't see fades (what's suppose to be solid black) in this picture then again you should get your eyes checked..
This job, work, patch, or whatever you want to call it is shiat.. And that's exactly what he deserves to be compensated for it.
Psycho Squid, I completely understand where your coming from on this deal, and honestly the 50 bucks I said earlier for materials was just to kinda square things with Ducky and move on.
Your definately not obligated to pay for that job though, no more then you'd pay a roofer for a leaky roof, or a mechanic that gives you back a car that doesn't run. It's irrelevant how much time Ducky does or does not have into the job thus far. If he's incapable of doing it correctly (3rd time spraying it?) then maybe he oughta find another line of work.
Sorry Ducky but you brought this on the forums yourself, and definately misled everyone on the scenario a bit. That workmanship is shade tree at best, and had you not said "It's good enough to put my name on it" then I would've kept my mouth shut and said well give him the opportunity to make it right..
In knowing that's your 3rd go around on this deal though, if it was my boat not only would it be out of there, you wouldn't get paid. If you felt you were owed something I'd wetsand that crap right off in front of you and tell you to collect what's yours.
RD

[Psycho Squid]

Yes, my wife works at a local bank, but it's not the bank that check was drawn against so don't even attempt to go there. There is no gray area there, she has her job and I have mine.
In fact, her name isn't even on my account.
Now back to the facts....
I deposited the check into my bank account on 5/7, the check hit their bank on 5/9, and it was returned to my bank on 5/11. After contacting PS, I re-deposited the check. It hit their bank again on 5/14, and was returned to me again on 5/16. Now that the check has been stamped NSF twice, my bank will not accept it for deposit again.Fact is this boats repair responsibility is on PPE Automotive and Marine Not your call. Your work is unexceptable to me and my customer Do whatever you feel necessary. As I stated My customer comes first no matter what the issue I act on their behalf that's what they pay me for. My customer in this case did not receive the best service from you sorry I have re directed repairs to the people that can give my customer the service and excellence he and his vessel require. I will not apoligize and hold fast to my conviction. I, like the manufacturer strive to give my customer the best product possible. You will not shame me I'm Ok with your allegations. Still my customer will rec' the best service possible. thank you for your attempt in the repair I feel this is above your abilities. You have a NSF check I am ok with my decision I will se you in court. Still my customer deserves the best he put his money and faith in my company. I will not let him down no matter what the cost. you sir are no longer a viable asset to my company or customers and I am forced to seek remedy for poor repairs. I think In the morning you will see things in a different light. look at the pictures I have posted and your actions. You have a responsibility to me as your customer. You would have rec' payment if your work was acceptible it was not. I still think your a good guy but showed poor judgement and for what ever reason poor workmanship.

[riverbound]

I have to back track a little...the first pictures looked fine...but now that these have been posted. I agree 100% that Ducky shouldnt have been paid (Sorry Ducky). The methods they went about it are a little questionable, but all in all I would be pissed if my boat looked like that

[Psycho Squid]

Thanks BOB, Tired I still have a long night ahead of me. :)

[Psycho Squid]

I have to back track a little...the first pictures looked fine...but now that these have been posted. I agree 100% that Ducky shouldnt have been paid (Sorry Ducky). The methods they went about it are a little questionable, but all in all I would be pissed if my boat looked like thatI couldn't get the pics up quick enough I type like a chicken. sorry!

[Havasu1986]

Thanks BOB, Tired I still have a long night ahead of me. :)
So have we figured out who the customer is yet. :confused:

[HM]

:jawdrop:
:devil: :D :hammer2: :hammer2: :boxingguy :boxingguy :D

[moneypit]

1. Were talking about 400 dollars.. Sounds like you got a 400 dollar job. Pay the guy his money, dont send him anymore business.
2. Next time you do a gel repair on a boat and you honestly think its a good job, dont say that you would be glad to fix it when you get the money... (kinda like saying you know you f'd up but you really need the dough).
See Marty outside the courtroom and we have some documents for you to sign..:D :D

[moneypit]

Judy appears to be an ol' biddy.. Now that young hot Judge with a voice like Demi... She can play with my Gavel:D

[YeLLowBoaT]

Just a though... if you wrote a check and them made sure it was bad... that is a crime.

[moneypit]

Are you referring to Judge Millian (sp)? She's one hot tamale. Judge Judy should not be allowed to call herself a Judge. Her rulings are made from stereotypical snap judgements. My wife watches that stupid show religiously (tivos it) and I'm forced to watch it from time to time. If she were accountable, half her rulings would be overturned on appeal. :D
YES:) :)
http://images.hispanicprwire.com/6970_1_lr.jpg

[YeLLowBoaT]

That's problematic because he's admitted to intentionally making the check NSF.
see post number 6... thats exactly the type of thing I was talking about...

[Marty Gras]

"MR DUCKY" your s#!t trail leads right back to your food bowl !!! YOU ARE A THIEF! I have the paperwork to prove it! You stole over $50K from our business deal, and now you have others coming forward to tell their stories. I didn't take you to court because you own nothing! I will just let the IRS take care of you. (I file truthfull tax statements) As for your other unhappy customers, let me tell you that you need to get in line. The King family would like you to explain why the boat you sold them had a 3' crack in the keel and other structural work needed. Their 4 year old child was in danger because of your greed! You seem to think that everybody around you is an idiot, but in fact you will be proven wrong. If you think that I am in error with my statements, please feel free to do something about it. But be warned that if you do and I must go to court, I WILL NEVER STOP. I have computer printouts of your "other accounts". Your lying to Steve and Jill really puts the "crown" on this whole deal. I do business with them and your BS really hurt that "trust". You told me that "they know" and in fact they didn't even know that you were leaving. Another lie, what's new? Funny, you even ripped off your buddy Randy, NICE FRIEND! You have sunk yourself with your own greed!

[Marty Gras]

Hold on Bob! There's big rollers ahead!

[YeLLowBoaT]

this thread is going to see alot more pages now...

[moneypit]

We may need a real judge
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/02/23/knJUDGE_narrowweb__300x404,0.jpg

[Tom Brown]

This Ain't Psycho Squid !!! This is Flat Head.....
In direct sunlight, you can see the under lying color showing thru. THIS BOAT IS NOT A GLASTRON!!!!! IT'S A DCB!!!!
I don't need this kind of abuse. I'm outta here... http://www.***boat.com/ubb/mad.gif
.... no... wait... I love abuse and, more than that, I love controversy.
By the way, you won't see work of that quality on my Glastron.
Where ....oh where is Brown......when you need him.....lmao...:D
I was rinsing out some fine washables.
NSF Check gives you no leverage in court.
The NSF cheque makes this look real bad for Psycho Squid. When he picked up the boat and wrote a cheque, that was a written contract that he accepted the work and agreed to pay.
Where DUCKY's wife works couldn't have less to do with anything. You can't clear a cheque after hours, just because you work in a bank. It doesn't work that way. Why are you bullshitting us on that, Psycho Squid?
Why is Psycho Squid talking about his customer and then saying his customer has nothing to do with this and shouldn't be brought into it. If Psycho Squid commissioned the work, he is the customer. Whether Flat Head accepts the work or not, is completely irrelevant with respect to this transaction.
You need to pay for the work then take him to court for the claimed crappy repair.
This is the correct way to do it. Unfortunately, this way doesn't work.
Once DUCKY has the money, he quits talking to Psycho Squid and it would take a much stronger case to compel a small claims court to direct DUCKY to repair or refund. From what I can see, that case doesn't exist.
As it stands right now...Jennifer :( Has produced a bad check.....
It will fall on her head.
As I understand it, she did not contract DUCKY to do any work so she has no liability in this. She is a surrogate of Psycho Squid, however, so I believe everything stands as it would, had Psycho Squid wrote the cheque.
When my customer is pleased and I have an invoice for fixing Scotts work I'll deal with scott.
Your customer (Flat Head) being pleased has nothing to do with this. You said yourself, you are the customer. This is between you and DUCKY. I would suggest a real man would take care of this now.
If Scott doesnt think he can fix it right, then the job should be heavily discounted IMO.
I'll tell you what, dmontzsta.... I'll paint your car for you. The charge $5000. If the job goes badly wrong and is not salvageable, I'll knock $500 off the price so you only have to pay $4500.
The $500 you save is no small amount and will give you a 10% down payment to use when you go to the next guy and he charges you another $5000.
Dmontzsta, you and I are cool. In this case, however, we don't see this this issue the same way. My position is, if the job is not done, no monies are owed. If the job is done, full monies are owed.
I like Ducky as much as the next guy, but you guys are focking nuts if you think someone should pay for that job.
DUCKY is cool. Every shop has the odd job that goes to shit and whatever reason, does not get done to a satisfactory level.
It looks like shiat, and honestly at this point I don't think I'd be taking it back to Ducky at all.
This is the ultimate outcome of this, isn't it?
The poor work and fishy story about the NSF cheque is nothing compared to what this is going to cost DUCKY's business.
If you can't see fades (what's suppose to be solid black) in this picture then again you should get your eyes checked..
That's how it looks to me also but it's worth pointing out that these images probably don't accurately reflect the quality of the job. We've all seen pictures that make paint jobs, particularly fades, look like crap when they really look OK in real life. There are also blemishes that are tough to capture in a picture. Particuarly with black, it's tough to get a digital camera to render it properly, given the way they color balance everything to 18% gray.
The white stuff is just buffing compound that I didn't get washed off.....
No, the repair did not look like that when it left here. Thanks for scrubbing my repair with acetone.
Wouldn't acetone wash off buffing compound?
I was told not to even wash the boat since it was to be detailed when I was done.
I was wondering about that. It still doesn't seem right.
Removing buffing and sanding effluent is a job that requires the skill and knowledge of a painter/gel man. The effluent contains potentially damaging grit and needs to be handled carefully.
I can understand not detailing the repair but not even removing the compound dust?
I am only going to say this once and I am done.
Now back to the facts....
:D
I will let the judge decide what is right.
I believe you would be well advised to do this, Scott. From what I can tell, you would win in small claims. You have already lost on this board, however.
...your pics make it obvious to anyone that knows gelcoat that you have destroyed my finish work for the purpose of making your photos more convincing.
I like to think I know something about gelcoat and it's not obvious to me. Particularly with what looks like 3m buffing dust still on the repaired area, that is going to be a tough position to support.
As far as the bottom goes, I did not throw the boat out of my shop due to other commitments. I finished one job, and was paid in full for it, and the boat was to be brought back for more work on the bottom.
This is one of the better aspects of this whole deal. By breaking it into two jobs, we are looking at a relatively small dispute. Further, by getting him to settle up on the smaller job first, we aren't looking at someone not wanting to pay for an expensive bottom job because of some blemishes in deck refinishing work.
There is one golden BB to this whole story, and that is....
Why would you take a $25-$35 NSF fee (2x) and risk criminal prosecution, instead one $10-15 stop payment charge?
I'm going to share my opinion since opinion is what seems to be solicited by this thread.
If I had to guess what went on here, I would guess that Psycho Squid either did not check the work over properly when he accepted the job or, more likely, Psycho Squid accepted the job and Flat Head did not. This could easily be a case of Psycho Squid trying to push the cost back to DUCKY when his customer would not accept the work.
Whatever the case, I don't think it matters. When Psycho Squid picked up the boat and gave DUCKY a cheque, that was a written agreement to accept the work and pay in full. A cheque is a written contract for payment. I really don't see any wiggling room here.
If this case were to be heard in Canadian small claims court, I suspect this is how it would go and Psycho Squid would be directed to pay DUCKY $400 plus any NSF fees incurred.
Flat Head's view in any of this is irrelevant. Psycho Squid is the customer and DUCKY is the vendor.
On a more reasonable level, that work doesn't look good to me. If that is an air occlusion I see in the , that is the beginning of a major chip and that would not stand. I can't see any percussion marks to indicate it was hit with anything so it looks like bad work to me.
The color variations are going to be way more noticeable at a distance than even severe scratches would be. The images posted here are pretty compelling evidence the boat is not fixed.
One of the aspects affecting any potential remediation is that DUCKY said, "I did re-spray the job 3 times". DUCKY should never have mentioned this. Given this information, it would seem the job is beyond his abilities. I find it hard to believe he can't do the job and I'm sure given another try or two, he could make it right, but you can't expect a customer to commit to remediation if proof of incompetence exists.
The bottom line is, if I were judging this case, I would direct Psycho Squid to pay any and all NSF related charges to DUCKY but nothing further.
As for the gel, this repair is not as easy as it looks. To get black gel to be opaque is going to require quite a bit of material build and that's not going to allow the repair to blend properly. It's easy to see why it turned out so badly. Still, proper technique would allow an invisible repair so I expect this whole thing is working heavily against DUCKY on a business level.
I feel bad for you, DUCKY. You are probably overwhelmed with work at this time of year and this extremely minor job going bad is most likely going to do considerable damage to your business. Even if you could come to an agreement with Psycho Squid, the damage to your business probably can't be undone at this point. It won't take many lost jobs, particularly in the slow winter season, to make this $400 dispute seem like something you might have been better advised to not mention on ***boat.

[Marty Gras]

I want to thank you "Squid", I've been praying to the lord to give me strength and patience in this matter. Reading your first post almost gave me freedom from my internal termoil. I have been torn between legal and "other ways" of dealing with this thief. I now know that I don't need to "do anything" to him, he is doing himself harm each and every day. It just took your courage to bring out the fact that he is not doing business "the way legitimate customers expect services to be rendered". Please feel free to contact me with any questions you might have. I am also in contact with the King family if needed in court. It's too bad that he does things in this way, he can do great gel work, but you just never know when.

[Tom Brown]

YES:) :)
http://images.hispanicprwire.com/6970_1_lr.jpg
:eek:
Welcome to my headboard, Marilyn.

[Rexone]

I'm going to remind the posters that this forum is not a place to post anyone's personal infomation such as name and address if they have not posted it themselves. I have removed the picture of that check and if it's reposted or anything like it... well lets just call it summer vacation. :)

[Marty Gras]

Tom Brown, before you say anymore, contact Jeff Blosdale Jr. and ask him about "Duckys" work! Also the jet ski rental place around the corner from "Ducky's" shop! How many chances does any shop get at YOUR repairs? 5? 10? 20? No one is perfect! How much tolerance can you give? $55K, $75K, $85K? One repaint, three repaints, ten repaints? If he goes out of business, I'll never get a cent from him. But if he stays in business, how much will you give him?

[moneypit]

I'm going to remind the posters that this forum is not a place to post anyone's personal infomation such as name and address
George Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
:devil: :devil: :devil:

[Jordy]

I'm going to remind the posters that this forum is not a place to post anyone's personal infomation such as name and address if they have not posted it themselves.
Really??? That's interesting. :idea: :D
Way to go Mikey. Nice job in helping a people. ;)

[Tom Brown]

Tom Brown, before you say anymore, contact Jeff Blosdale Jr. and ask him about "Duckys" work!
Why would I do that, Marty Gras? Mr. Blosdale does not speak for me. In fact, I think few would want to take responsibility for what I'm spewing most of the time. :D

[plaster dave]

Maybe it is just me but if I was Ducky what is $ 400.00 if you are in business? I mean he has ruined his name on the boards and possible in Havasu also.
I have had stuff like this come up in the past where a customer owed me $ 1500.00 and just decides not to pay because he is a Lawyer or because he knows that it will cost you more to fight for it in court. You just write it off on your taxes and move on.
I am not commenting on the work because it has been covered already by everyone else.
This is just my take on it. :D

[Jordy]

I recently entered into a transaction with a well known member of one of these forums, a Jordy type, if you will. Prom king, drives a Ferrari, etc.
Apparently you've totally misjudged me. I'm more of a Ford Pinto guy and I just showed up to prom to have pictures taken. Very far from the prom king type. ;)
p.s. I've also done quite a bit of business with people on the forums and have never screwed or even tried to screw anyone. It's all about integrity and karma. I like to be able to sleep at night. :)

[Rexone]

Really??? That's interesting. :idea: :D
Way to go Mikey. Nice job in helping a people. ;)
I have no dog in this here fight. No one's personal info should be posted here unless they've already made it public somewhere. I'm confident the holder of that checking account has not.
I'm sure ***boat doesn't need a lawsuit from the holder of that check either. Nor would that be in the best interest of this forum's future for that to occur, if you get my drift. ;)

[Jordy]

I have no dog in this here fight. No one's personal info should be posted here unless they've already made it public somewhere. I'm confident the holder of that checking account has not.
I'm sure ***boat doesn't need a lawsuit from the holder of that check either. Nor would that be in the best interest of this forum's future for that to occur, if you get my drift. ;)
Just razzing you a little bit as there are a couple of cockbags who have posted up my personal info here and there (one went so far as to register my home addy as a screen name) and they still post here on a regular basis. One is a very regular spammer, I mean poster. :D :D :D
I meant more in terms of him being mouthy. ;)
Yeah, it still doesn't change the implications you were trying to make, mouthy or otherwise. I do know there is a line and I go out of my way not to cross into the personal realm, and I don't use these forums as a medium to conduct business. Pretty f'ed up analogy in my opinion. :notam:

[Tom Brown]

I have no dog in this here fight.
If you did, I'd club the hell out of it with my Manfrotto tipod.

[Jordy]

Dude, whatever. I simply meant he was a real well known member that could ruin somebody on the forum if he wanted to. Somewhat like you tried to do to SummitKarl, not that it was undeserved. I never meant to imply that you attempted to screw anybody out of anything. If you notice, your name was brought up when describing his forum "presence". I probably could have used several HB members as a comparison, your persona came to mind.
OK. thanks for the clarification. ;)
As far as me trying to ruin SpammitKarl, I never had to do anything on that. His asshole moves did that all to himself and he is very well aware of it. Funny thing is, all he'd have to do is come on here and post up a thread with a sincere apology and it would all go away. Unfortunately, he's not smart enough to do that and believes his own bullshit at this point and has let his pride get in the way of whatever common sense he may have. :D :D :D
As I posted above, karma and integrity are huge from my point of view. We know he doesn't have any integrity and without integrity, karma will catch up shortly afterwards. ;)

[moneypit]

That "Dog in the Fight" comment was used three different times in this thread by three different people. Dis' shiznit needs to stop!
Im ouuta here.. I had some oatmeal squares about an hour ago. My lactose problem is beginning to talk to me.:eek:

[YeLLowBoaT]

SEE POST #6

[AirtimeLavey]

Apparently you've totally misjudged me. I'm more of a Ford Pinto guy and I just showed up to prom to have pictures taken. Very far from the prom king type. ;)
p.s. I've also done quite a bit of business with people on the forums and have never screwed or even tried to screw anyone. It's all about integrity and karma. I like to be able to sleep at night. :)
I've done business w/folks on here, too. Some have been great, and some not so good. I agree, it's about integrity and karma, and mine will remain intact, although after recent experience, I will rethink how far I will extend myself for a board member. :idea:
The good experiences I tout on here. The bad, I leave off. :)

[Psycho Squid]

Just for the record Flathead is not the boats owner. I was at FlatHeads home and he posted using my ID because he can't remember his pass word. He has just been with me during this whole ordeal. I just want people to know who the players are and are not. With their permission of course.

[TheLurker]

Well, I haven’t logged onto Hot Boat in a while and I’m sad to see this going on in the first thread I read. I’m not going to comment on this repair but I’ll tell you about my experience with Scott at Precision Boat Werx.
I was switching the CF registration numbers to AZ registration numbers but had a little problem. The CF numbers (kind of an orange to red fade) were airbrushed onto the white paint (not white gel) on the sponsons and then clear coated over so the old Easy Off trick was not going to work here. The numbers had to be sanded off down to the white and the white re sprayed so I called Scott to see if he could do the job which he could. The job was scheduled for the Thursday morning. He was there ready to go when I got there and the job was completed when he said it would be and the boat was also cleaned when I picked it up. A good experience all around.
P.S. Pat Kuntz came out to the house and airbrushed on the new AZ numbers. I didn’t have my camera with me to post a picture but he did a great Job also.

[Marty Gras]

Everyone in town, get your neighbors to watch over your property while you are at work! This looks like a "rough boating season" ahead!!!

[Marty Gras]

Saturday was a great day, yelling, obsceneties, physical contact, and "a real threat to bystanders". Then, Sunday in the channel, my wife and I saw many "Hot Boat Friends" and some "waved" with 5 fingers, some with only one! It is 'funny' to me how some people disregard the facts when making up their opinions. I do have a history with one of the persons mentioned in this thread. He did come to my workplace (05/19/07) and threaten me. I did not respond in a physical manner. I have no doubt that he is in the wrong. (in many ways) I feel he needs to correct his errors. He has done similar (unususal) things to other customers. I feel that some of you need to wake-up to the fact that "popularity" does NOT equal "honesty". I don't use the word "thief" without cause, I use it with caution. I use that word in this public forum, because I know it to be true and have documents to prove it. I am truly warning all of you who live in Havasu and have opposed "Ducky's" opinions. He accosted me on Saturday, and seemed to be "out of control". I do hope that he gets some kind of help for his (emotional control) problems, but in the mean time we all should be "watchfull" of our loved ones. I'm sorry all of this ever happened, I'm just too "trusting" in business deals. I guess I'm an easy target for "dishonest people". I hope "Squid" gets his problem resolved!

[RiverDave]

Saturday was a great day, yelling, obsceneties, physical contact, and "a real threat to bystanders". Then, Sunday in the channel, my wife and I saw many "Hot Boat Friends" and some "waved" with 5 fingers, some with only one! It is 'funny' to me how some people disregard the facts when making up their opinions. I do have a history with one of the persons mentioned in this thread. He did come to my workplace (05/19/07) and threaten me. I did not respond in a physical manner. I have no doubt that he is in the wrong. (in many ways) I feel he needs to correct his errors. He has done similar (unususal) things to other customers. I feel that some of you need to wake-up to the fact that "popularity" does NOT equal "honesty". I don't use the word "thief" without cause, I use it with caution. I use that word in this public forum, because I know it to be true and have documents to prove it. I am truly warning all of you who live in Havasu and have opposed "Ducky's" opinions. He accosted me on Saturday, and seemed to be "out of control". I do hope that he gets some kind of help for his (emotional control) problems, but in the mean time we all should be "watchfull" of our loved ones. I'm sorry all of this ever happened, I'm just too "trusting" in business deals. I guess I'm an easy target for "dishonest people". I hope "Squid" gets his problem resolved!
WTF??
RD

[Miss Psycho Squid]

Oh, and you probably already know this, but those people aren't "friends." That's one of the reasons we don't have a lot of HB "friends" but rather acquaintances. People are way too willing to be "friends" with somebody based on what kind of boat they own, the parties they host or the pictures they post. Our friends know they can count on us for anything and if a dispute arises between two friends, I'll go out of my way to reconcile the dispute rather than take sides.Well spoken Bob.Squid and I feel the same way.We can count our true friends on one hand. No need to take off the shoes.:D

[Psycho Squid]

Saturday was a great day, yelling, obsceneties, physical contact, and "a real threat to bystanders". Then, Sunday in the channel, my wife and I saw many "Hot Boat Friends" and some "waved" with 5 fingers, some with only one! It is 'funny' to me how some people disregard the facts when making up their opinions. I do have a history with one of the persons mentioned in this thread. He did come to my workplace (05/19/07) and threaten me. I did not respond in a physical manner. I have no doubt that he is in the wrong. (in many ways) I feel he needs to correct his errors. He has done similar (unususal) things to other customers. I feel that some of you need to wake-up to the fact that "popularity" does NOT equal "honesty". I don't use the word "thief" without cause, I use it with caution. I use that word in this public forum, because I know it to be true and have documents to prove it. I am truly warning all of you who live in Havasu and have opposed "Ducky's" opinions. He accosted me on Saturday, and seemed to be "out of control". I do hope that he gets some kind of help for his (emotional control) problems, but in the mean time we all should be "watchfull" of our loved ones. I'm sorry all of this ever happened, I'm just too "trusting" in business deals. I guess I'm an easy target for "dishonest people". I hope "Squid" gets his problem resolved!Scott called me on Sat. twiced I recorded the conversations, told me he was having a bad day......I'm seeking a restraining order in the am. I hope you have called the L.E. with your situation.
P.S. This is really out of hand.
John Petrovich
PPE Automotive and Marine
LHC AZ. 928-208-0830

[Decided Advantage]

I had a similar situation on a PWS repair.
I took my PWC in with a hole in a piston, got it back with a 1200 bill. The store I got was the the crank seals were bad I he decided to replace them while he was there. I'm looking at the engine I wondered outload why he was there? What required him to be into the bottom-end? So I get it back and we take it out for the first time. about 5-10 mintues into the ride the pinched wires going to the CD box burnt and the thing goes up in smoke on the water. The boat dealer we are cruisin' with immediately points out the workmanship defect and says don't worry they'll make good on it. When I take it back to the shop the owner comes out looks it over and tells me that he had checked the cables personally before it left the shop and that I must have done this.
Short story long, the Stator, cable, CD box, and battery replacement was good for another $1K bill. I wrote the sucker a check, stopped payment, and filed a report with the BBB. Smitty's Marine (I actually wrote the check to "Shitty Marine" never responded. If I hadn't written the check I never would have gotten my PWC back and if I had written a good check and attempted to get it back, they would have just ignored the BBB.
The bottom line, is stopping payment on the check was the only way to make this situation anywhere close to right.
Now if I could figure out where the thing is taking on water ever since the repair I'd be good to go!:(

[monkey rage frank]

I've had some bad work oh wait he did'nt do the work at all. Scott's exuse was that he was just too busy. It was weird that the same boats were in the shop as when I got there. Scott's a shady guy I would never take anything to him. I think it's great that there are these fourms, people need to know, getting ripped off sucks. I have read just about everyones comments and replys sounds like Scott's world is crumbling.

[Jbb]

It does appear that..... for the amount of money involved....and the hard feelings that have surfaced......future earnings that have evaporated.....that this matter would have been better settled....in private.......

[v-drive]

I don't know anything about anything to do with this. What I do know is that Ducky had problems with Barney( who I do not trust) and now Barney comes on in his defense,go figure. Marty Gras comes on dogging him but lets remember a while back when he came on here sticking up for a douchebag in Havasu that was stealing from people on this site so in my opinion he's no better. The whole thing with the chick writing the check is shady though.
That's about all I know except it will be a cold day in hell before I trust anyone in Havasu with any of my stuff ever...v-drive

[Infomaniac]

WOW why debate or point fingers at anyone?
Before reading my statement below bear in mind I did'nt bore myself with the details in this thread or any other.
The proper thing to do in ANY business dealing is to pay the bill. If you are not happy with the work then do not take them any repeat business. But you have to pay for the service. If you don't pay then you have no gripe and reflects your character.
Human error can happen anytime humans are involved. And poor craftsmanship happens occationally. If the work was not acceptable, ask the person doing the work to correct it. How the person doing the work handles the dissatisfied customer will determine their true character.

[Jbb]

WOW why debate or point fingers at anyone?
Before reading my statement below bear in mind I did'nt bore myself with the details in this thread or any other.
The proper thing to do in ANY business dealing is to pay the bill. If you are not happy with the work then do not take them any repeat business. But you have to pay for the service. If you don't pay then you have no gripe and reflects your character.
Human error can happen anytime humans are involved. And poor craftsmanship happens occationally. If the work was not acceptable, ask the person doing the work to correct it. How the person doing the work handles the dissatisfied customer will determine their true character.
I have an issue with you......I splashed paint on the Moritz Machine t shirt you sent me.....and It doesnt look good anymore.......what do you plan to do about that???:D

[ChumpChange]

Where is Ducky's shop located? Is Precision the shop on the south end of town just off the 95?

[b's sanger]

A lot of money being lost regarding this thread. How is the LHC governmemt going to maintain their tax base. Oweeeee. :idea:

[BajaMike]

You need to learn to tell a story in a concise, well thought out manner. I think many people would agree with you if you were more specific about your problems. If you don't want to be specific, don't bother posting. If it's something you can back up, by all means, post it up. Otherwise, you come across as just rambling without any real proof.
Yea, what ShockwaveBob said........this thread (and others) clearly show that many people on ***boat have a really hard time "telling a story in concise, well thought out manner"!
If you can't or won't make your case clearly, "you come across as just a rambling (moron) without any real proof" of anything.
"It's not always what you say.....It's the way how you say it".....
:idea:

[Infomaniac]

I have an issue with you......I splashed paint on the Moritz Machine t shirt you sent me.....and It doesnt look good anymore.......what do you plan to do about that???:D
I'll send you a new one in exchange for your new CD.
The customer is always right. I should have paint proofed the shirt.

[Jbb]

I'll send you a new one in exchange for your new CD.
The customer is always right. I should have paint proofed the shirt.
Thats what Im talkin about ......Customer service....:D
pm your addy and a cd will be enroute tomorrow...:D

[zudnic]

Human error can happen anytime humans are involved. And poor craftsmanship happens occationally. If the work was not acceptable, ask the person doing the work to correct it. How the person doing the work handles the dissatisfied customer will determine their true character.
I kind of owned and ran a pre-owned European car dealership. It was a partnership that was great, old semi-retired guy only kept his business open for a place to go and let me use his money and inventory like it was my own. This guy was also a heavy real estate investor, so he rented space to a Euroean indi repair shop. Also had a semi-partnership without real ownership with them, so myself and my customers had a place to service their vehicles..... I ended up building several relationships like this; even had two other dealers that would front me my own cars. The point I started dabbling in helping people (my customers) with getting restoration done on their cars and also doing some brokerage. All this was done on contract, as in I would take my customers car to other shops for the work. This was in the mid nineties...
I had a guy who collected Rolls Royce's. He gave me his 1977 Silver Wraith II to have freshened up. This car was to be shown at RR Club events and we almost did a frame off restoration on this thing. To be shorter; I'm a nice guy, and like to go the extra mile to make my customers happy. I however need to get paid for taking something like this to a body shop for a new paint job. So I got a deal on the job and can add in some gravy when I bill my customer. Gets sticky when the guy wants this done fast, but to factory standards.
Obviously I have to pay the bill at the body shop. In this case it was sprayed twice, first time it was orange peel and the bill was a discounted $8K. Long story short, customer found a small bubble pin hole on the trunk that I missed. Not good for a show car. The owner of the body shop re-did the trunk, but he was also busy and could have just as easy said get bent. The car came in second at a Palm Beach Rolls concours, we (contracted vendor) painted the metal wind shield washer fluid tank the wrong color. The body shop owner not only made things right, with not much money considering the extra prep involved... I trusted him with a close relatives car restoration and my own..
I gave my customer a fair charge for my time, almost free, considering my time in putting every thing together. $500 is what I added for everything, but had $8K on the line, until he paid me. If the body shop would'nt help me out I would have done everything to ensure that his check did'nt clear. Electronic banking, money moves around at the blink of an eye and they dont have to be open once a teller puts it into the computer!

[Rexone]

"It's not always what you say.....It's the way how you say it".....
:idea:
May I me use this quote please for a sig?
:D

[DUCKY]

I was really trying to stay away from this but I have no choice but to come back here and defend myself once again.
As for me calling Psycho Squid, yes I did.
I called him on Saturday morning, and told him I wanted to bury the hatchet on this deal. He said he was in Parker, and would call me when he got back to town. He never called back, so I called him and left a very nice message, saying once again that this mess has gotten way out of hand, and I wanted to "bury the hatchet". I suggested a very simple solution that I give him his bad check back, and he can take the boat elsewhere (since he is obviously not going to bring it back here) on the condition that we both contact moderators of this website and have our threads deleted. By the tone of his last post(s) I am going to assume that he has declined my offer. I am not going to waste any more of my time on this matter.
Now for the others....
Monkey Rage Frank? I worked on your boat one time over two years ago, and you praised me at the time. Since I only did mechanical work to your boat, and not fiberglass, I am going to assume that you were just trying to support me with your posts. If you have forgotten, here are a couple of reminders.
"03-07-2005, 08:20 PM
Replies: 8
Bottom repair in havasu
Views: 308
Posted By monkey rage frank
havasu work
Fast Fiberglass and Marine is the place you want. Good Guys George and Scott and they do awesome work. Pm me and I can get the Number for you. Frank"
"03-28-2005, 02:56 AM
Replies: 6
The Best Gelcoat/fiberglass In Havasu?
Views: 307
Posted By monkey rage frank
Fiberglass
Some good friends of mine George and Scott at Fast Fiberglass and Marine Scott goes by Ducky on the boards they will hook you up!!!!!!!!!!! Frank"
Now then, since you got about $2000 worth of work for $600 because you were George's Friend, not to mention the several hundred dollars I spent with your father, and the fact that 99% of the people that ever came to FFM never met George, because in the year the FFM was open, he never picked up a tool of any kind, I'd say that the posts mentioned above would prove that you are now full of s**t, and you should just go away.
And now for George.
When our agreement came to an end, all I wanted was a fresh start. I have succeeded in attaining that, and that just pisses you off. You know that no one in town will listen to your ranting, so you come on here, take little pot shots at me, and try to turn people away from me before I ever have a chance to meet them. Your posts started out rather vague, and even though I have never said a negative word about you in public, they have recently become more personal, and increasingly further from the truth. You first post in this thread was nothing short of libelous. When I made contact with you, I had every intent to have a civilized conversation with you, but you just kept on walking away and refused to look me square in the eye. That shows to me that you know you are lying. Regardless, your comments have made it necessary for me to protect my interests and seek legal action against you. You will be hearing from the process server.
And Lastly, to V-drive,
To answer your question, Yes. At one time Havasu Barney and I had a disagreement that stemmed from the manner in which a third party interpreted some things he said on the internet. That mis-interpretation caused me to over-react to the situation, and I was not proud of my actions. When Barney was freed from jail, I contacted him to make my peace.
I am going to go back to work now......:D

[ChumpChange]

Where is Ducky's shop located? Is Precision the shop on the south end of town just off the 95?
What about this question? Where is Precision located?

[Not So Fast]

This is way outa control IMO. I dont know anybody involved but Scott and he has done no work for me but I can say I've had conversations on several things about my boat and he seemed like a damn nice guy and actually took the time to explain things to me. Scott has worked on some friends boats and they were happy with his work. Thats all I can say but end this OK:( :( NSF

[Magic34]

This is way outa control IMO. I dont know anybody involved but Scott and he has done no work for me but I can say I've had conversations on several things about my boat and he seemed like a damn nice guy and actually took the time to explain things to me. Scott has worked on some friends boats and they were happy with his work. Thats all I can say but end this OK:( :( NSF
Sometimes the internet is just a pain in the a$$. In this case, I think so. Nothing good will come out of this for anyone involved.

[78Anthonyjet]

Are you not the dude that got smacked in the head with a bat for not paying a subcontractor for painting a trailor, and now all this crap? Things that make you go HMMMMMM?

[moneysucker]

I have heard about this deal from the very beginning and I have done a lot of business with PPE, He does make the job right and does have high standards. Looking at his personal property can show you that, almost OCD in fact. Sometimes some methods of handling situations get a little sideways.
In this case however, there is only a limited time you have to satisfy a customer, especially during river season. ALL these repairs must be completed prior to the next trip which there was more than sufficient time to have done and the job was accepted. Unfortunately, there really is not the time to re-do the work several times and force the customer to miss thier trips.
Realistically, Psycho squid is the customer. Not being happy with the repair is his purrogitive and there should be no contact from the sub contractor to the owner who had no knowledge of the sub contractor other than placing his vessel in the hands of PPE for a repair. This is like one of my clients hiring me to build a home for them. I am a general. I sub out all the work and schedule and supervise. I am also the quality control for the owner because my sub is contracted by me, not the owner. I had a sub use non approved materials once and when called on it, went around me to the owners which happened to be a corperation who does not deviate from specs. He was forced to remove the wrong material and reinstall the correct material and was forced to complete it all in the original contract amount of time. This was where the workmanship was not a factor but the color was. They were paid the contract after completing the work to specs but have since never been invited to do work again.
When workmanship is in question and after several failed attempts, there is a limit to how much time you can afford before taking your business elsewhere in order to satisfy your customers time frame and expectations. The note in the memo line would have been a good idea stating that the vessel was to be re-repaired on ?/??/??...Or a partial payment. Bouncing the check was not the best action to take but at the time Looked like the mont viable course of action to have the boat remidied to PS.
PS was not the one who started a thread on here badmouthing Ducky. He came on responding to another started by Ducky. I have seen in 90% of cases of people posting business dealings on here they usually spin out of control. Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one and on here everyone posts it on line (Be it Pics or their opinion.)
It is a very Noble proposition by DUcky to wash away the whole transaction and return the check. Both take a lesson learned. And delete their threads. (No mods need to be involved The thread creator can delete their own threads) I hope that business can return to its usual but I am betting that both will be hurt by this negative publicity. If I was the boat owner, I would not appreciate calls to my home, business and the manufacturer of my boat being touted as a deadbeat then to later have your boat pix posted linking you to this whole train wreck to everyone on here especially here in the sandbar where many of the high roller/ big boat people hang out. I believe it is in the beas intrest of all parties INVOLVED to have this fued pulled from the public and call it a lesson learned. The entertainment was very good but I really should do some work. 6 pages takes a long time to read.

[Marty Gras]

"Mr V-drive', I did not defend Brian Dietz in any way. I only tried to prevent a "lynch mob" mentality, from taking over. I was the ONLY ONE who actually went to him and demanded he refund the money in question. (look on v-drive .com) Now as for "being concise" BOB! I was trying to keep some of the people here 'up to date' without giving away too many facts. I did post "just enough" to make YOU read it! Scott came to my work on Saturday the 19th, he was very abusive both verbally and physically. I truely feel that he has "snapped", and his actions on that day back up my opinion. When "an incident" like that happens, it is my duty (at work) to report it to the police. I did, and I also got statements from other "uninvolved parties". Scott wanted me to fight, he bullied, he "bumped" and he "yelled directly in my face". As I said before, "I feel he has snapped". The police took my report and all of the "statements". The policeman told me that "this is an assault" along with other abuses. There was a 9 year old girl (standing next to me) hearing Scott (at the top of his lungs) spew obsceneities! Scott has a lot of "class" but it's all 3rd class! Scott "says" he's taking me to court, he acts as if the true facts in our case are "his to control". I use the word "thief" because I can prove it, along with deception, and a host of other illegal acts done by Scott while we were partners in "Fast Fiberglass and Marine". Durring his "face to face" rant he threatened me, my family, my property and my right to speak in public forums. (this is not the first time!) I went to the court this morning at the direction of the officer who took the report. He said, "if you feel threatened, you need an order of protection from the court". I did file one and it was faxed to the police the same morning. I DON'T WANT TO HURT SCOTT! I WANT MY MONEY BACK! Along with my portion of the monies the business made. I spoke today, (on the phone) with one of the others who has posted here. He describes Scott's "wild actions" in a way very similar to my descriptions. I do wish him good luck in his venture. It seems "funny" to me that Scott would threaten me with legal action. My problems with Scott include, theft of business funds, personal use of "LLC" funds, theft of "LLC" records, fraud in business practices, failure in fiduciary, false reports to state and federal tax agencies, and the list goes on. (one or more of the above is a felony!) When Scott gets out of jail, I hope that he "rethinks" his position, and tries to make amends with ALL OF US WHO QUESTION HIS BUSINESS PRACTICES! If he does continue with his legal actions towards me, I'm ready. I won't "lower myself" to threats, I'll just say that "I have proof of what I say!". LHC locals look for a "familiar name" in the Herald "police beat" column on Tues. or Wed. Thanks for reading! "Clear enough for you Bob?"

[Jbb]

It is a very Noble proposition by DUcky to wash away the whole transaction and return the check. Both take a lesson learned. And delete their threads. (No mods need to be involved The thread creator can delete their own threads)
........Ummmmm.....No!

[Psycho Squid]

Are you not the dude that got smacked in the head with a bat for not paying a subcontractor for painting a trailor, and now all this crap? Things that make you go HMMMMMM?Nope it was a home invasion-attempted robbery. Both a ret. law enforcement officer and I were victims.....

[Marty Gras]

Thanks, I guess I need you to translate my "rants" into complete thoughts. I'm just so "upsidedown" over this problem. I trusted Scott, and put my money, future boat building business, and most of all "my trust" in him. I feel that he has failed/cheated me and done "this with a vengence". Now (in this thread) his lack of personal/business control is being shown. Also, as far as "Hot Boat Friends", I made no mistake. I qualified 'friends' with "Hot Boat" and that sir IS ALL THE DIFFERENCE! "Jbb" I don't think "moneysucker" gets the entire problem with this "repair VS bad check" deal! The boat is F'ed up and after 3 times to correct the bad repair, it's now a "refund!?" The boat has a very bad "repaired" area on it. If you took your boat in for a 6" scratch and it came out (after $400.00) with a 2 foot rough/dull/ non-matching spot on it, would you be happy with a "refund"? Then throw in all of Scott's drama (phone calls to outside parties) I think not! Please don't think for a minute that I want Scott's business to fail! I want it to prosper and grow! I hope that he is "rich with business", because I don't want to wait "years" for his "restitution" in the case he thinks "he's bringing to me".

[Jbb]

Thanks, I guess I need you to translate my "rants" into complete thoughts. I'm just so "upsidedown" over this problem. I trusted Scott, and put my money, future boat building business, and most of all "my trust" in him. I feel that he has failed/cheated me and done "this with a vengence". Now (in this thread) his lack of personal/business control is being shown. Also, as far as "Hot Boat Friends", I made no mistake. I qualified 'friends' with "Hot Boat" and that sir IS ALL THE DIFFERENCE! "Jbb" I don't think you get the entire problem with this "repair VS bad check" deal! The boat is F'ed up and after 3 times to correct the bad repair, it's now a "refund!?" The boat has a very bad "repaired" area on it. If you took your boat in for a 6" scratch and it came out (after $400.00) with a 2 foot rough/dull/ non-matching spot on it, would you be happy with a "refund"? Then throw in all of Scott's drama (phone calls to outside parties) I think not! Please don't think for a minute that I want Scott's business to fail! I want it to prosper and grow! I hope that he is "rich with business", because I don't want to wait "years" for his "restitution" in the case he thinks "he's bringing to me".
?...All I said was no....you would need a mod to delete....:confused:

[Phat Matt]

Let me relate a recent personal story. I reshaft and sell golf clubs as a side business, mostly eBay and internet sales. I sell a particular line of shafts that are very expensive, the cheapest being $300 installed and the most expensive being $1000. For just the shaft, you supply the club. I did this full time while my kids were too young for school, now it's just a part time endeavor. I have about 9 years total as a clubmaker, the last 5 as a certified master clubmaker. I belong to several golf forums where I'm known as a clubmaker and receive a lot of business from the members of said forums.
I recently entered into a transaction with a well known member of one of these forums, a Jordy type, if you will. Prom king, drives a Ferrari, etc. So I reshaft three clubs for him. As per my usual business practice, I make notes of the serial numbers of all three clubs for my records (warranty mostly). So, a couple days after receiving it the guy calls me up. He tells me that my epoxy failed on his brand new Callaway FT-5 driver and the head launched down the driving range. He says it's beat up now. He was real nice, not demanding at all. I said "Send it back, I'll take care of it after I evaluate the damage." So, he sends the club back. First thing I notice is that the epoxy has been broken down from heat, it's very obvious because it powders and changes color. Second thing I notice is that the head appears to be quite well worn, especially on the sole. Very unusual because the club I reshafted was brand new. Third thing I notice is that the club is not really damaged at all, just normal wear and tear for a club that appears to be a few months old. So, I call him and tell him I'll replace it with a new club. Now, he decides he wants an FT-5 Tour 10.5, which don't even exist yet. He insists that he'll take care of the difference in price between the worth of his club and the cost of a new club. I call in a few favors and for $430, I'm the proud owner of a club that hasn't hit market. I reshaft the new club, send it off to him and we're all square. In the meantime, I find a buyer for his old club, which was in pretty good shape. As I'm referring to my old notes, I now notice that the serial number on the club head I have does not match the one I reshafted. He straight pulled some kind of okey doke on me and I never even realized it because, after all, he's from "the forum." Worst part, the guy not only never thanked me, but he never offered to make up the difference in price between the clubs. All told, I probably bit off $200 out of my own pocket on the deal, my labor for two complete reshafts and express mail shipping to return his new club.
I contemplated "outing" him on the forum, calling him out, sending him a nasty email, but in the end, I knew that it would only cast a shadow on my character and the quality of my work. I can make anywhere from $750-1500 a week from this one forum alone, just doing high end reshafts, there was no way I was going to risk even $1 of that for $200. I simply don't understand how people that do business on internet forums cannot realize this.
So basically you got shafted. :D

[phebus]

What a piece of shit thread this is. Handle it in private guys. :mad:

[Marty Gras]

I take that as another uninformed (personal friend) vote for Ducky! Thanks for "jumping into this shit thread", please don't get any more in your mouth! Bob, your actions in "taking the high road" with your golf club problem seems to be very noble, at first. Yes, I see that you can afford to "just turn the other cheek" and know that it was "for the best in your case". Would you feel the same way if the amount of money had been, $1K, $10K?, $100K? I've had "my time" with Ducky. I feel that I am obligated to offer information on MY BUSINESS DEALINGS with him. They were NOT POSITIVE, and I can relate to the others here who describe his "unusual actions". Bob, if I used/diverted over $55K of your money, then destroyed your ability to make any more "clubs", then "pointed you out" on this forum as "the one who is wrong", wouldn't you want to respond in a vigiorous manner? If people like me don't point out the "people who create problems", who will? Bob, if he "got you" for $1K, and you said nothing, then in the next week he got your neighbor for $50K, how would YOU really feel? He can be a great boat painter when he wants to be, and then he can also be a bully and a threat to the neighborhood. HE makes his own choices, until WE speak up.

[monkey rage frank]

Scott as you can see in your reminder post I was trying to keep Georges name good. Your name was attached because George and yourself were in bus. together but after what you did to George your on your own buddy. George is a great guy and HE DOES GREAT WORK! This thread is becoming sad JUST DO WHAT IS RIGHT CARMA FOLLOWS YOU. FRANK OUT!!!!!!!

[phebus]

I take that as another uninformed (personal friend) vote for Ducky! Thanks for "jumping into this shit thread", please don't get any more in your mouth!
Not a vote for Ducky or you, just a vote for some class rather then airing all your dirty laundry in public. Both of you need to show some class instead of acting like a bunch of teenage bitches.

[VEGASBABY]

What a piece of shit thread this is. Handle it in private guys. :mad:To late for that,but i agree! This thread should be deleted. Enough of this:boxingguy :argue:

[pw_Tony]

Not a vote for Ducky or you, just a vote for some class rather then airing all your dirty laundry in public. Both of you need to show some class instead of acting like a bunch of teenage bitches.
Oh come on it's the internet... if you don't like it don't read it... too complicated?

[Marty Gras]

Bob, when the business with Ducky went south, I went to lawyers and also had him investigated. The guy has no "personal worth". He has an old truck, and an old boat, along with some tools he purchased with my money, otherwise if his wife didn't work at a bank, he would not be able to rent the old duplex that he sleeps in. He was running the shop while I had a full time job. He took the money (my portion estimated to be around $55K+) durring the year we had the business operational, or so I thought it was. All of the operational costs were paid by Fast fiberglass, while all of the profits were "skimmed" to an account owned by Scott himself. Durring all of this I learned that I had some serious medical problems and needed an operation. After our "blowup" I found out many "insites" as to how Mr Gaddie does business. It seems as his pratices have not changed much as of late, except that he tends to "threaten people more" now. All I ever wanted was a place to do my new boat tooling, some EFI, turbo, blower motor work, along with a small return on my cash investment.

[phebus]

Oh come on it's the internet... if you don't like it don't read it... too complicated?
Whatever, I'm out, I'll leave you idiots to make fools out of yourselves. Yes, it's just the internet, but it does expose one's real self.
I'm glad I've never done business with any of you.

[Tom Brown]

The boat has a very bad "repaired" area on it. If you took your boat in for a 6" scratch and it came out (after $400.00) with a 2 foot rough/dull/ non-matching spot on it, would you be happy with a "refund"? Then throw in all of Scott's drama (phone calls to outside parties) I think not!
How about $25000 in small unmarked bills, a three week all expenses paid vacation in the Caribbean, and an inch of DUCKY's cock?
How much is restitution does someone who is unhappy feel is required for a modest repair job and a couple of phone calls?

[Tom Brown]

I'll leave you idiots to make fools out of yourselves.
What do you think we've been doing for the last decade?

[DUCKY]

...... and an inch of DUCKY's cock?
You can't take it all..... I still would like to have children, you know.....:D

[Rexone]

I don't agree with deleting threads except in extreme cases where disgusting and inappropriate severe personal attacks might be posted (or forum rules violated of course). I don't see this as one. There's a lot of information in these types of threads. I think it's up to the readers to determine what's worth considering as truth or meaningful, and what's not. The participants are free to edit and delete their posts at will if they choose to backpeddle. They're also free to defend themselves as they see fit or refute what others say or not respond at all. But not take the entire thread out just because "they" don't like the results of the discussion they start.
My opinion is the readers are not stupid and can make decisions themselves and don't need content eliminated to do it for them. They can also choose not to read topics they don't like. Everyone chooses what they post here and if they regret it later, well, maybe they should have thought more before putting the keyboard in gear. ***boat has always been known for being kind of a wide open throttle discussion forum. I don't consider topics like this that turn controversial or have disagreement between posters as necessarily bad. It's kind of like free speech as long as it remains within forum guidelines pretty much. I think too, that much of the time people's true colors show through when pressed by others a little.
The above is only my opinion and how I normally handle threads that I have to deal with occasionally in the tech forums. I "don't delete" much more often than I "do delete" when the subject comes up. Occasionally I lock something that gets way out of hand or no more useful infomation is being added (just rehashing of the same stuff). But when locked the content remains as a resource for everyone to make their own opinions on. Kind of like an encylopedia.
I thank God every time I read one of these that I no longer moderate the Sandbar. :D

[Rexone]

What do you think we've been doing for the last decade?
Plotting to put the blame of all dog attacks on Pit Bulls of course. :D

[Psycho Squid]

I don't agree with deleting threads except in extreme cases where disgusting and inappropriate severe personal attacks might be posted (or forum rules violated of course). I don't see this as one. There's a lot of information in these types of threads. I think it's up to the readers to determine what's worth considering as truth or meaningful, and what's not. The participants are free to edit and delete their posts at will if they choose to backpeddle. They're also free to defend themselves as they see fit or refute what others say or not respond at all. But not take the entire thread out just because "they" don't like the results of the discussion they start.
My opinion is the readers are not stupid and can make decisions themselves and don't need content eliminated to do it for them. They can also choose not to read topics they don't like. Everyone chooses what they post here and if they regret it later, well, maybe they should have thought more before putting the keyboard in gear. ***boat has always been known for being kind of a wide open throttle discussion forum. I don't consider topics like this that turn controversial or have disagreement between posters as necessarily bad. It's kind of like free speech as long as it remains within forum guidelines pretty much. I think too, that much of the time people's true colors show through when pressed by others a little.
The above is only my opinion and how I normally handle threads that I have to deal with occasionally in the tech forums. I "don't delete" much more often than I "do delete" when the subject comes up. Occasionally I lock something that gets way out of hand or no more useful infomation is being added (just rehashing of the same stuff). But when locked the content remains as a resource for everyone to make their own opinions on. Kind of like an encylopedia.
I thank God every time I read one of these that I no longer moderate the Sandbar. :DThanks Mike, I'm not afraid. If I'm going to be dammed let me be dammed for who I trully am. I will not go quietly into the night. I say Flip the switch, turn on the lights and lets rock! :D

[Miss Perfect]

Whatever, I'm out, I'll leave you idiots to make fools out of yourselves. Yes, it's just the internet, but it does expose one's real self.
I'm glad I've never done business with any of you.
Bingo! It's sad that 2 businesses have hurt their reputations over $400. Nobody is the winner here and neither one of you look like the good guy.

[hoolign]

Bingo! It's sad that 2 businesses have hurt their reputations over $400. Nobody is the winner here and neither one of you look like the good guy.
When you say "nobody is the winner" does that imply they are losers? :idea:

[OGShocker]

When you say "nobody is the winner" does that imply they are losers? :idea:
I was thinking you, "D" and I should screw SWB out of 15K. :D

[hoolign]

I was thinking you, "D" and I should screw SWB out of 15K. :D
I think I would actually be the one getting screwed! If I even go within 3 feet of a golf club they automatically start falling apart and my mastercard started heating up! I have "Happy Gilmored" a few clubs and they do not hold up to Jack Daniels as well as I hoped :D Me and golf don't jive! I find myself better off left to drive the cart and hand out what's left of the beverages. A few carts have not faired so well either:D

[Miss Perfect]

When you say "nobody is the winner" does that imply they are losers? :idea:
Stop it Hooli... I have been trying really hard to keep my mouth shut in this thread. Don't encourage me :D :devil:

[Jbb]

Stop it Hooli... I have been trying really hard to keep my mouth shut in this thread. Don't encourage me :D :devil:
Maybe if the old avatar returned...?

[hoolign]

Stop it Hooli... I have been trying really hard to keep my mouth shut in this thread. Don't encourage me :D :devil:
Well no ones " Perfect" :D

[hoolign]

I wouldn't notice it was missing for a couple years.
I'm sure we could remind you daily;)

[Marty Gras]

I'd call it "trash compacting!" While all of you internet experts have been contemplating "which came first?" "The post or the attack". Things out here on the river have heated up quite nicely. Police visits, personal assault, (reduced) to simple "disorderly conduct", arrest, orderS of protection, and some very unhappy customers. Thanks "REX" for sticking with the facts presented here. Originally I just wanted to "vent' on a problem that I had with one of the people mentioned here. As I stated, he has no real assets and legal action on anyone's part would be pointless. I wanted to point out that "he" among others have little to loose and "Hot Boat Forum" members must beware when choosing any boat repair shops. Often, " shops" will offer "special prices, or discounts", for their work. WHY? If they are reputable, and have a history of quality, they would not need to "discount" their labor. I am very sorry for the problem that "JD" is having with Ducky, but I feel that JD was "too easy" on him. After the second "incorrect repair", I would have been "taking corrective actions". We all make mistakes! How we correct them is the real test of our own "business comitment". I prefer the "errors" be remited in cash! "over and out"

[ChumpChange]

I wouldn't notice it was missing for a couple years.
:D :D :D

[uvindex]

I'd call it "trash compacting!" While all of you internet experts have been contemplating "which came first?" "The post or the attack". Things out here on the river have heated up quite nicely. Police visits, personal assault, (reduced) to simple "disorderly conduct", arrest, orderS of protection, and some very unhappy customers. Thanks "REX" for sticking with the facts presented here. Originally I just wanted to "vent' on a problem that I had with one of the people mentioned here. As I stated, he has no real assets and legal action on anyone's part would be pointless. I wanted to point out that "he" among others have little to loose and "Hot Boat Forum" members must beware when choosing any boat repair shops. Often, " shops" will offer "special prices, or discounts", for their work. WHY? If they are reputable, and have a history of quality, they would not need to "discount" their labor. I am very sorry for the problem that "JD" is having with Ducky, but I feel that JD was "too easy" on him. After the second "incorrect repair", I would have been "taking corrective actions". We all make mistakes! How we correct them is the real test of our own "business comitment". I prefer the "errors" be remited in cash! "over and out"The Society to Save the Quotation Marks respectfully asks that you please think of the quotation marks before posting! There's only a limited number of quotation marks in the world you know! Please, please think of the quotation marks. After all, if we don't protect and preserve these innocent little punctuation marks for future generations, who will?

[Wheeler]

The Society to Save the Quotation Marks respectfully asks that you please think of the quotation marks before posting! There's only a limited number of quotation marks in the world you know! Please, please think of the quotation marks. After all, if we don't protect and preserve these innocent little punctuation marks for future generations, who will?
Thanks for the laugh! :D

[Marty Gras]

"Mr 'rather be". "I do see "your point"!" "However", I feel that you "need to understand" that "out here" in the desert, "we", "don't give a damn" about shortages! "We", use punctuation, "as if it were like water", and "we drive the LARGEST VEHICLES", so as to "use the most fuel"! "Mr" "rather be", are you pointing out the fact that "I" post in the same manner of "speech" that "William Shatner" speaks in? "I think not!" However, (as you have brought to my attention) "my methods of translating", "my words" seem to have gained "your attention", and that is "what I wanted!" Thank you for responding!

[lewiville]

" I dont know why we are all yelling in here"?

[noregret$]

" I dont know why we are all yelling in here"?
but, BUT WHY'S THE RUM GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil: :devil: :devil:

[HM]

I love lamp.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

"Mr V-drive', I did not defend Brian Dietz in any way. I only tried to prevent a "lynch mob" mentality, from taking over. I was the ONLY ONE who actually went to him and demanded he refund the money in question. (look on v-drive .com) Now as for "being concise" BOB! I was trying to keep some of the people here 'up to date' without giving away too many facts. I did post "just enough" to make YOU read it! Scott came to my work on Saturday the 19th, he was very abusive both verbally and physically. I truely feel that he has "snapped", and his actions on that day back up my opinion. When "an incident" like that happens, it is my duty (at work) to report it to the police. I did, and I also got statements from other "uninvolved parties". Scott wanted me to fight, he bullied, he "bumped" and he "yelled directly in my face". As I said before, "I feel he has snapped". The police took my report and all of the "statements". The policeman told me that "this is an assault" along with other abuses. There was a 9 year old girl (standing next to me) hearing Scott (at the top of his lungs) spew obsceneities! Scott has a lot of "class" but it's all 3rd class! Scott "says" he's taking me to court, he acts as if the true facts in our case are "his to control". I use the word "thief" because I can prove it, along with deception, and a host of other illegal acts done by Scott while we were partners in "Fast Fiberglass and Marine". Durring his "face to face" rant he threatened me, my family, my property and my right to speak in public forums. (this is not the first time!) I went to the court this morning at the direction of the officer who took the report. He said, "if you feel threatened, you need an order of protection from the court". I did file one and it was faxed to the police the same morning. I DON'T WANT TO HURT SCOTT! I WANT MY MONEY BACK! Along with my portion of the monies the business made. I spoke today, (on the phone) with one of the others who has posted here. He describes Scott's "wild actions" in a way very similar to my descriptions. I do wish him good luck in his venture. It seems "funny" to me that Scott would threaten me with legal action. My problems with Scott include, theft of business funds, personal use of "LLC" funds, theft of "LLC" records, fraud in business practices, failure in fiduciary, false reports to state and federal tax agencies, and the list goes on. (one or more of the above is a felony!) When Scott gets out of jail, I hope that he "rethinks" his position, and tries to make amends with ALL OF US WHO QUESTION HIS BUSINESS PRACTICES! If he does continue with his legal actions towards me, I'm ready. I won't "lower myself" to threats, I'll just say that "I have proof of what I say!". LHC locals look for a "familiar name" in the Herald "police beat" column on Tues. or Wed. Thanks for reading! "Clear enough for you Bob?"
Are you still crying about brian:yuk: :yuk: You really do have issues....

[Miss Perfect]

but, BUT WHY'S THE RUM GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil: :devil: :devil:
Cause you drank it all!
Hi Darrin :D Your boat looks great.

[76ANTHONY]

Stop it Hooli... I have been trying really hard to keep my mouth shut in this thread. Don't encourage me :D :devil:
yeah hooli, thats my job:D :D

[Miss Perfect]

yeah hooli, thats my job:D :D
You zip it too!
must...not...post...in....this...thread :D

[Throttle]

You zip it too!
must...not...post...in....this...thread :D
u continue to be a good girl... i am watchin you...lol:D

[DUCKY]

At least I know that my existing customers know better than to be taken in by the loads of manure that have been deposited here. If there is anyone out there that is straddling the fence, feel free to stop by the shop for a demonstration of not only the quality of my work, but the span of different services that I offer. I have said my peace, and yes, it got me charged with Disorderly Conduct (but not arrested...Just another lie). So be it, that I am human, and I let this moron get under my skin once, but I am over it now. From here, this matter (DUCKY vs Marty Gras) will be left for a judge to decide.

[Shreve "T"]

At least I know that my existing customers know better than to be taken in by the loads of manure that have been deposited here. If there is anyone out there that is straddling the fence, feel free to stop by the shop for a demonstration of not only the quality of my work, but the span of different services that I offer. I have said my peace, and yes, it got me charged with Disorderly Conduct (but not arrested...Just another lie). So be it, that I am human, and I let this moron get under my skin once, but I am over it now. From here, this matter (DUCKY vs Marty Gras) will be left for a judge to decide.
If thats the case then "WHY are you still posting your "LAUNDRY" ????

[b's sanger]

At least I know that my existing customers know better than to be taken in by the loads of manure that have been deposited here. If there is anyone out there that is straddling the fence, feel free to stop by the shop for a demonstration of not only the quality of my work, but the span of different services that I offer. I have said my peace, and yes, it got me charged with Disorderly Conduct (but not arrested...Just another lie). So be it, that I am human, and I let this moron get under my skin once, but I am over it now. From here, this matter (DUCKY vs Marty Gras) will be left for a judge to decide.
Both you guys should have fixed this thing on about page 2. Quality of work aside, now it's your "decision making" in continuing this public debaucle that is in question. And I would hazard to guess, it's not just my opinion.

[Shreve "T"]

Both you guys should have fixed this thing on about page 2. Quality of work aside, now it's your decision making in continuing this public debaucle that is in question. And I would hazard to guess, it's not just my opinion.
I agree its time to move on......I know his Business cant prosper from any of this bad publicity why would he continue with this. Pretty much what could be said has been said .......

[lucky]

hey ducky - while in redbluff would you mind glassing in a "check" into my floor ??? I have one especially made for the occation :) catch up we will be hangin around the guru

[Marty Gras]

Lies? I think "Ducky" didn't read what he signed. The paper he signed (L285348) LHCPD states, Arrest / Detention status. Box checked says, suspect cited and released. This means that "Ducky" must appear before a judge on or before 06/14/07. I guess the cops wanted to save room for the big weekend crowds. If it were "just a ticket" no court appearance would be required. When the cop brought me 'my copy' of the paperwork, he said "I handed him the papers". "This put him under arrest". "He had some comments, I answered them". "He tried to argue, but he signed". "If he had not signed, he would be in jail now". The cop went on with some other comments as to "Ducky's" behavior. Taking me to court will prove to be interresting. I have told the truth, I have stated facts that I have paperwork to back up, and I have been called a liar. Also, "Ducky" has been served with an "injuction against harassment". Within those 9 "orders to the defendant", "no contact w/parties other; Email/3rd party". In other words, no more threatening E mails to me and no other threats to me thru any forums. I will try to hold back any further comments unless you need me to clearify any of my previous remarks. Thanks for reading. Edit: I have nothing to do with the DCB repair problem! I don't know the guy involved, spoke with him on the phone once, but never met him.