Piss Poor Work?

[Cole Sanger]

So I read the other two posts about the good/bad work on the fiberglass. I don't want to get anywhere near that mess. But I would like to know what you do when you get bad work done somewhere. Here is my story - not boat related.
I had a concrete patio put in my backyard. The whole long story is that a friend at work said this guy has done work for other people at work. He was not recommending him to me, only relaying that this guy had done this type of work in the past for others. Anyway, I get the guy over and tell him I need the existing two small patios removed and a 30' x 12' one put in. I also want a patio cover built. He says that they may be able to poor right over the existing patio, but he would have to check with his concrete guy. So they decide the next day that there is enough room to pour over the existing. I figure they know what they are talking about. The patio gets poured and looks great. Two days pass, and the patio cracks right over one of my old patios. They come back the next week and tear out one section where the crack happened, only they hit the next section past the relief cut. So they try to cut it at a diagonal. I said no way is that going to fly. I make them cut the concrete at the next relief and take it out. They come out and re-pour. I could tell before they left that it was going to look like crap. They agree and come out a third time. Cut out the bad section once again and re-pour. It looked ok for about a day. Then the cracks start showing up. It looks really bad. Did I mention that they still did not remove the old patio and that this is probably why it is cracking? I think the water has no where to go but up, so it dries on the top and cracks like crazy.
I made a deal with the original guy in between pour two and three that if it got messed up a third time, which it did, that he would take out the whole 30' x 12' section and the original concrete and have someone else re-pour the whole thing. So I talk to the guy today and he says I have three choices. One they could put a stain over the top, they could give me $400 and leave it as is, or they could put tile over the top. None of these were what we agreed to, nor are any of these what I want.
I paid the guy with two checks over 5 months ago, but the guy is not licensed. I reminded him of our deal between the second and third pour and he said that he needs to get something out of the concrete guy and that he would talk to me next week.
That's my story, so now my question is what would you do? Or what have you done in the past in similar circumstances? Do I have any way of getting this taken care of legally? Also, I know the first guy and I made an agreement, but how do I make him follow through on this? He could bail on me and then where would I be? At this point I am surprised that he is even returning my phone calls, most others wouldnÂ’t from my past experiences.

[Outnumbered]

Just tell him you will report him to the state for contracting without a license if he does not make it right.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Just tell him you will report him to the state for contracting without a license if he does not make it right.
That will work... not sure how it works in AZ, but in CA you can F some one really bad that way.
I personally don't have a prob with people that are not lic.( every day I feel having my GC is more and more of a joke...atleast in CA. Just got my OR lic, talk about a breath of fresh air.) I know a few that have been working that way for over 25 years. I would take hire them in a heart beat over a some one that was legal and I did not know. Then again we are not talking about major structral stuff here.

[OCMerrill]

Using someone not licensed....
If someone gets hurt on your property.....oh shit! This is the cliff note version.
You don't have to pay him a single penny and he cant sue you for jack over $500. I read that you already have paid him?
We do allot of concrete. Sidewalk re-pours, slabs, etc. All property management work (no private). Funny thing here is how does one know how strong the slab is underneath? It matters.:eek:
If they are pouring 3" of liquid rock over an existing slab of 3" with no bar (typical patio) then what is happening is the concrete underneath is compressing and flexing with this newly added weight. As the concrete on top dries, the water is being evaporated making the new over pour lighter, and the substrate below is now "returning" (or trying to) it's original state. This is what is breaking up the new pour.
I would never do this. It needs to come out I am afraid.
And yes I am a B1 in CA

[YeLLowBoaT]

My understanding ( which might be wrong) is that if the material cost goes over $500 they can still sue your the material cost. ( if the agreement is labor + materails or time and materials).
Also I know if you are an employee of the owner, you are exempt from this.( I wonder if 1099 employee counts in this case?)
I know there is alot of grey area, it what you can and can not do.

[spectra 224]

This sounds like my exact horror story from last summer.:mad: What I did was after they screwed up my concrete the first pour, I just fired him. I figured that if they cant pour concrete and make a square step, they probably dont know how to operate a jack hammer to take it out.
It is truley amazing, how many people are out there doing stuff like this and then moving down the street to the next house.
Then how do you get your money back? If you get a lawyer you start working backwards again. More $$$$ down the hole and time dealing with the problem. And your concrete is still a mess!
I worked it out where he is paying me back and I almost have all my money so I guess thats the best you can hope for in these types of situations.
Chris

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Just tell him you will report him to the state for contracting without a license if he does not make it right.
Ditto.

[Baja Big Dog]

Licence or not...this guy and your money will be gone. His losses are so high now he has nothing to loose. Cant blame yourself, we are always looking for a deal. Too bad the dumb shit couldnt at least broke up the old slab, he could have left it there and then poured over it, but that fricken hind sight bites you in the ass again.
Put another mark in the "ah shit" column!

[Xlration Marine]

They didn't take out the old one, and just poured on top of it. Can't do that, it will never come out right. And chances are the poured it wet. Did he speak inglish? You can call in on him, but all they will do is tell them to stop. Or you can report him to the fed's for tax evastion. That would get his attention more than anything. Did you watch them do it,if so did it look like Pea soup when the poured it??

[Cole Sanger]

Just tell him you will report him to the state for contracting without a license if he does not make it right.
I thought about that, but I didn't exactly, errr aaaa, get a what do you call it, permit for the patio cover. That may throw a wrench into the reporting him. I could just tear it down, get a permit, and put it back up if worse comes to worse. Pretty small patio cover at 12' x 14'.

[Cole Sanger]

That will work... not sure how it works in AZ, but in CA you can F some one really bad that way.
I personally don't have a prob with people that are not lic.( every day I feel having my GC is more and more of a joke...atleast in CA. Just got my OR lic, talk about a breath of fresh air.) I know a few that have been working that way for over 25 years. I would take hire them in a heart beat over a some one that was legal and I did not know. Then again we are not talking about major structral stuff here.
I usually don't care one way or another. I had the quote from the quy who didn't speak english. I went with the white american guy. Probably would have been better to go with the illigal at this point. Of course they wouldn't have shown back up two more times.

[Cole Sanger]

This sounds like my exact horror story from last summer.:mad: What I did was after they screwed up my concrete the first pour, I just fired him. I figured that if they cant pour concrete and make a square step, they probably dont know how to operate a jack hammer to take it out.
It is truley amazing, how many people are out there doing stuff like this and then moving down the street to the next house.
Then how do you get your money back? If you get a lawyer you start working backwards again. More $$$$ down the hole and time dealing with the problem. And your concrete is still a mess!
I worked it out where he is paying me back and I almost have all my money so I guess thats the best you can hope for in these types of situations.
Chris
Normally I would have done the same, but I didn't know it was going to crack until two days after they left with the money. The other thing is that I work at the same large company that the main guy and the concrete guy work at. We don't work in the same group, but I see them just about every other day in passing. I think that has a lot to do with why they keep trying to fix their mistake.

[Cole Sanger]

Licence or not...this guy and your money will be gone. His losses are so high now he has nothing to loose. Cant blame yourself, we are always looking for a deal. Too bad the dumb shit couldnt at least broke up the old slab, he could have left it there and then poured over it, but that fricken hind sight bites you in the ass again.
Put another mark in the "ah shit" column!
That is what I am afraid of. Them leaving and me never seeing them again, but so far so good. They may be coming back doing crap work, but atleast they are coming back. The concrete guys losses have got to be unbelieveable by now. He has come out three different times to break up the concrete and re-pour. I was/wasn't looking for a deal. The first guy that came out said $2800 not including demo and the patio cover and he barely spoke english. The guys who actually did it charged $4000 for everything. So I think they were competative with each others price from what I can tell. Since I work at the same place as the other two, and they spoke english, I went this route.

[Cole Sanger]

They didn't take out the old one, and just poured on top of it. Can't do that, it will never come out right. And chances are the poured it wet. Did he speak inglish? You can call in on him, but all they will do is tell them to stop. Or you can report him to the fed's for tax evastion. That would get his attention more than anything. Did you watch them do it,if so did it look like Pea soup when the poured it??
It looked pretty wet the second and third time. They do speak english, see my other replies. It did look like pea soup by the time it was done. He said that the last time he added the quick dry stuff to it. Guess that didn't help him.

[Misogynist]

Si..... se puede...... :mad:

[Cole Sanger]

Si..... se puede...... :mad:
Yes..... it can be done.....
Had to get that one translated for me.

[Xlration Marine]

It looked pretty wet the second and third time. They do speak english, see my other replies. It did look like pea soup by the time it was done. He said that the last time he added the quick dry stuff to it. Guess that didn't help him.
Quick dry, he's full of shit. No such item in concrete.Not by that name. So if it was pea soup you have a pile of concrete with a psi of about 250, not even close to 2500. The ideal slump is a 4", kinda like pudding. Once the water is added to it, it gets weaker and will be more prone to cracking. Now wet on top of a slab, well it will allways crack, every time. I'm suprised he came back, most just ditch you and never return your call. They even use the cheep cell fones with no contrack and get a new number every couple of months. There are a lot of jack off's doing concrete in Az. I wouldn't be suprised if he used footing mud, some will pull that scam as well.

[Outnumbered]

I thought about that, but I didn't exactly, errr aaaa, get a what do you call it, permit for the patio cover. That may throw a wrench into the reporting him. I could just tear it down, get a permit, and put it back up if worse comes to worse. Pretty small patio cover at 12' x 14'.
I believe the contractor is responsible to pull the permit but I could be wrong. Maybe a GC will chime-in and let us know. I don't think that you would get in trouble. Worst case would be paying permit fees that you should have paid anyway. It is the leverage you want to hold over his head that really matters. It's worth a shot.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I believe the contractor is responsible to pull the permit but I could be wrong. Maybe a GC will chime-in and let us know. I don't think that you would get in trouble. Worst case would be paying permit fees that you should have paid anyway. It is the leverage you want to hold over his head that really matters. It's worth a shot.
once a contractor has a signed contract they them may pull the permits... with out one... they can't do shit( atleast are not supose to be able too)

[Xlration Marine]

When I did my pool I went down with all the paper work and submitted it. If you leave it up to the contractor he will charge you some more for his time, running around and dealing with those twits. Pluss you will need to schedual the inspections as well. It's not a big deal. If the city catch'e you building with out the permit they will ding you for it. They want to be able to nail your ass to the wall as far as a taxed value as well. You have gotten yourself into a pickle. You don't need one to lay concrete, just to build a top over it. And then the "CODES" will come into play. I would get a permit for the top, and then fill in the walls after all the inspections. Use pannels so they don't look permanent.