Railroad Head on accident....

[boatsnblondes]

Sobering...take a look at the video, I have to go to work, when I get back tonight, I'll try to shed a little more light on it for ya...either that or Katchina can....see it here..... (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/leoncrooks/?action=view&current=Trainmeet.flv)

[27 Awesome cat]

Thats looks like it:( hurt:(

[Kachina26]

I almost posted that last night. It happened up at Kismet in California. The train with the camera was going to "take the siding" . You can see they have a red over green signal that indicates the opposing train is clear and they are entering a diverging route. Moments before the crash, you can see the signal drop (bottom one turns red). You can also see at least one crew member from the oncoming train bail out. I forget how many died, but scary stuff. As I understand it, the crew that was supposed to hold the main while the other went in the hole fell asleep, awaking too late to stop the train. They did make an emergency brake application before bailing out. Crew fatigue is a major factor in these type of incidents. As it currently stands, a crew who does up to 11:59 hours of duty rests for 8 hours. Well not really, because this rest starts the moment the employee hits the enter key on the timekeeping computer. Now he goes outside and waits up to 20 minutes for a van, then goes to the hotel, 10 minutes. Then waits to check into the hotel, I've waited upwards of 45 minutes, but that's not typical. Once at the hotel, a shower is in order, 20 minutes. If you are the type that can go right to sleep, you still have 7 hours of uninterrupted rest left, right? Wrong, you get an hour and a half call for your next duty, so if you went straight to bed, (ya sure) you were able to rest for 5.5 hours, plenty enough for another 12 hour day, only to do it all again. Crew fatigue is a big issue. Sorry for the rant. I really do like the job.

[Baja Big Dog]

Thats ugly......

[Water Romper]

Someone's gonna be in trouble for this...:eek:

[02HoWaRd26]

Kachina is right on alot of that except one Noone died in this incident , I have worked that area of the railroad and it is a cool area, but the crew on the oncoming train was yes supposed to stop but they were all asleep, the engineer had bailed out a few seconds earlier what you see is the Brakeman jumping off, the crew on the train with the camera was on board the whole time and ended up hurt real bad however they all lived. I cannot believe this video is out and about however it is still awaiting judgement. And yes the biggest scare is the crew Fatique and the Railroads are trying to eliminate jobs and make it 1 man crews just think this happened with 3 guys on the train that caused the issue and 2 men on the grain train that got hit, imagine in your town when the trains go through and they have one guy on each train, or as they really want noone on the train and satelite ran, when an incident happens taking another town out.... :idea:

[SMFRiverRat]

Crew fatigue is a major factor in these type of incidents. As it currently stands, a crew who does up to 11:59 hours of duty rests for 8 hours. Well not really, because this rest starts the moment the employee hits the enter key on the timekeeping computer. Now he goes outside and waits up to 20 minutes for a van, then goes to the hotel, 10 minutes. Then waits to check into the hotel, I've waited upwards of 45 minutes, but that's not typical. Once at the hotel, a shower is in order, 20 minutes. If you are the type that can go right to sleep, you still have 7 hours of uninterrupted rest left, right? Wrong, you get an hour and a half call for your next duty, so if you went straight to bed, (ya sure) you were able to rest for 5.5 hours, plenty enough for another 12 hour day, only to do it all again. Crew fatigue is a big issue. Sorry for the rant. I really do like the job.
Sounds EXACTLY like my old Airline. I love my job too.

[lewiville]

Wow!

[HM]

I almost posted that last night. It happened up at Kismet in California. The train with the camera was going to "take the siding" . You can see they have a red over green signal that indicates the opposing train is clear and they are entering a diverging route. Moments before the crash, you can see the signal drop (bottom one turns red). You can also see at least one crew member from the oncoming train bail out. I forget how many died, but scary stuff. As I understand it, the crew that was supposed to hold the main while the other went in the hole fell asleep, awaking too late to stop the train. They did make an emergency brake application before bailing out. Crew fatigue is a major factor in these type of incidents. As it currently stands, a crew who does up to 11:59 hours of duty rests for 8 hours. Well not really, because this rest starts the moment the employee hits the enter key on the timekeeping computer. Now he goes outside and waits up to 20 minutes for a van, then goes to the hotel, 10 minutes. Then waits to check into the hotel, I've waited upwards of 45 minutes, but that's not typical. Once at the hotel, a shower is in order, 20 minutes. If you are the type that can go right to sleep, you still have 7 hours of uninterrupted rest left, right? Wrong, you get an hour and a half call for your next duty, so if you went straight to bed, (ya sure) you were able to rest for 5.5 hours, plenty enough for another 12 hour day, only to do it all again. Crew fatigue is a big issue. Sorry for the rant. I really do like the job.
There are 24 hours in a day. work for 12, off for 8, then another 12? Working 16 hours the first day? How many days in a row do they do this?

[Mrs. 20]

That's awful!:jawdrop:

[Jetdriver]

Got any pics of the aftermath?

[Baja Big Dog]

Its hard to believe that teh guys on the train with the camera were not asleep, they see this thing comming at them and not one
HOLY SHITT!!!

[Keith E. Sayre]

peter (I mean howard 26) WOW!!!
Now I know what you do for a living! scary. but glad you're out there.
Keith Sayre

[Sleek-Jet]

So do all trains have on-board cameras??? :confused:

[Kachina26]

There are 24 hours in a day. work for 12, off for 8, then another 12? Working 16 hours the first day? How many days in a row do they do this?
Depends on whether the guy wants money or time. I like time myself. My uncle had a thing for money, it wasn't unusual for him to keep up this routine for 60-70 days before he took a day off. Those times I gave don't include "limbo time", that's where the crew has exhausted their maximum 12 hours on duty time and is sitting somewhere waiting for a crew to relieve them. Once they are relieved, they take a van ride to their final destination. It isn't unheard of for a crew to do 16 hours before they tie up for their rest. There is legislation in the house right now to address "limbo time", but it doesn't do much about rest time. I would like to see 8 hours of undisturbed rest, meaning you don't get a phone call until after you've rested for 8 hours. Like 02HoWaRd26 said, the companies are pushing for one man crews. You've all driven a car for a long distance before, imagine a train up a steep grade at 12-15 mph trying to stay awake after your 5 hours of sleep. When you are writing your legislators about illegals, mention this issue too.

[Wet Dream]

imagine in your town when the trains go through and they have one guy on each train, or as they really want noone on the train and satelite ran, when an incident happens taking another town out.... :idea:
How about the trainwreck in Montana, about 10 years ago? The guys took a break at the top of the mountain...but forgot to set the brakes. The train was allowed to come down the mountain, and crews had about 2 hours to figure out how to get it stopped before it went through town. It was decided to remove a rail and let all hell break loose.

[Wet Dream]

April 11th, 1996 Alberton, Montana:
At approximately 4:00 am on the morning of April 11th, 1996, 18 of 72 rail cars left the tracks on a Montana Rail Link east-bound mixed freight train less than two miles upwind of Alberton, Montana, releasing three hazardous materials:
68 tons of spent potassium cresylate,64.8 tons of chlorine, and 85 pounds of dry sodium chlorate prills, total 133 tons of toxic waste.
An initial “hot zone” of 72 square miles resulted in over 1,200 people evacuating from their homes, 352 people were treated at local hospitals, and one man died from exposure to toxic fumes.
The evacuation lasted for nearly two weeks, closing traffic on I-90 for 17 days.

[Baja Big Dog]

April 11th, 1996 Alberton, Montana:
At approximately 4:00 am on the morning of April 11th, 1996, 18 of 72 rail cars left the tracks on a Montana Rail Link east-bound mixed freight train less than two miles upwind of Alberton, Montana, releasing three hazardous materials:
68 tons of spent potassium cresylate,64.8 tons of chlorine, and 85 pounds of dry sodium chlorate prills, total 133 tons of toxic waste.
An initial “hot zone” of 72 square miles resulted in over 1,200 people evacuating from their homes, 352 people were treated at local hospitals, and one man died from exposure to toxic fumes.
The evacuation lasted for nearly two weeks, closing traffic on I-90 for 17 days.
YIKES!!!:(

[I DIG IT !]

shit deal

[RiverToysJas]

The guy that jumped out at the end, just before the crash....wouldn't it be safer to stay inside the steel locomotive, than risk it rolling on top of you?
RTJas

[Ziggy]

There was an occurance a year or two ago here in San Diego where a locomotive with cars attached was sitting near downtown, idling with no engineer on board or anywhere nearby.
As it turned out, he'd exceeded his allowed time and was supposed to have replacement there for him, he took off to get his sleep and the replacement didn't show.

[riverracerXXX]

So HOWARD & KATCHINA, you both railroaders? Sounds like it.

[GHT]

I know there are a lot of determining factors BUT how long does it take the AVERAGE train to stop (one with lets say three engines pulling it)? At 10mph, 20mph, 40mph, 60mph and 70mph. What would that be 60-70 cars?
Just curious.. I'm glad nobody was killed...
Also, I've always wondered (you don't have to answer it, I would understand), what does a cross country Engineer make on average. I would thing the pay / overtime would be nice, BUT like Kachina26 said earlier, the time away from family would suck.
Sorry to be nosey but I REALLY always have wondered.. Thanks and I hope I'm not being too rude.

[Kachina26]

So HOWARD & KATCHINA, you both railroaders? Sounds like it.We are, BNB wishes he was :D
I know there are a lot of determining factors BUT how long does it take the AVERAGE train to stop (one with lets say three engines pulling it)? At 10mph, 20mph, 40mph, 60mph and 70mph. What would that be 60-70 cars?
Just curious.. I'm glad nobody was killed...
Also, I've always wondered (you don't have to answer it, I would understand), what does a cross country Engineer make on average. I would thing the pay / overtime would be nice, BUT like Kachina26 said earlier, the time away from family would suck.
Sorry to be nosey but I REALLY always have wondered.. Thanks and I hope I'm not being too rude.It can take a mile or better to stop. I'm just a yard dog, so you would have to ask BNB or Howard, as they have more road experience than I.
Money wise, you don't get paid for time spent in the hotel away from home. I know guys that make 140k a year, but they are old heads that get paid for things that I have to do for free. Working the extraboard in the yard could pay as much as 84k a year and you sleep in your own bed. You can make as little as 48k a year as a helper on a regular job if you don't take extra work. Sorry I couldn't give you a better answer, but it all depends on how much or how little one wants to work.

[riverracerXXX]

Right on. Who do you work for? Im a conductor for Amtrak on train Number One, the Sunset Limited, out of L.A. Union Station.

[Kachina26]

Right on. Who do you work for? Im a conductor for Amtrak on train Number One, the Sunset Limited, out of L.A. Union Station.
BNSF, out of Barstow usually, familiarizing in Needles right now. BNB works for jamtrack as well. He's a hogger near sacto or something.

[Racey]

My ass would be abadoning ship and running as fast as i could away from those tracks!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Kachina26]

My ass would be abadoning ship and running as fast as i could away from those tracks!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
It's a long drop. A while back, a conductor fell asleep and eventually woke up while approaching a train that was waiting for them to pass as the train in the video should have been doing. Anyway, seeing the stopped train dead ahead on the same track, he feared the worst and ran out the back door and bailed off, right into a pole. He died, the engineer called the dispatcher to report that he had just lost his conductor.
I spoke to a conductor that was waiting in a siding for a passing train, the engineer was taking a nap, which is within the rules. Anyway, they were sitting still waiting at the red light when the engineer awoke, saw the red light, put the train in emergency and headed for the back door before he realized what was happening. That was kind of funny.

[HM]

The guy that jumped out at the end, just before the crash....wouldn't it be safer to stay inside the steel locomotive, than risk it rolling on top of you?
RTJas
That is exactly my logic about people that jump from ***boat. :D

[zudnic]

My Uncle is a first officer/relief capt with the BC Ferries... Sim job in away cause they get fatigued following the same route, clip other boats, plow into docks, into marinas, fall asleep on the bridge hit rocks and sink, etc......... Their union got revenge. Coast guard regs you need a certain number of crew, if they leave the dock missing one, heavy fine. Triple over time if they change your shift without 48hrs notice and one time up to 2 years stress leave paid, you dont need a reason or proof either.....

[Kachina26]

The guy that jumped out at the end, just before the crash....wouldn't it be safer to stay inside the steel locomotive, than risk it rolling on top of you?
RTJas
Not always......
http://www.csx-sucks.com/images/pic/2770.jpg

[Riverkid]

My parents had a trucking Co pulling pigs in and out of the ATSF in Commerce. the dock was right off Sheila, against their yard. MANY times I took a hop through the yard with some cool engineers seeing how they moved stuff in the yard. Pretty fascinating. Those guys were good.

[Kachina26]

At least we have facilities to use when stuck out there for 12 hours....
http://www.csx-sucks.com/images/pic/2273hole.jpg

[boatsnblondes]

We are, BNB wishes he was :D
Focker, I got more time sitting in the seat scratching my balls than you got total, kid. :D
It can take a mile or better to stop. I'm just a yard dog, so you would have to ask BNB or Howard, as they have more road experience than I.
Depends on the train, what type, going uphill or downhill, lots of things, mile or so, maybe a bit more, not that it matters....
Money wise, you don't get paid for time spent in the hotel away from home. I know guys that make 140k a year, but they are old heads that get paid for things that I have to do for free. Working the extraboard in the yard could pay as much as 84k a year and you sleep in your own bed. You can make as little as 48k a year as a helper on a regular job if you don't take extra work. Sorry I couldn't give you a better answer, but it all depends on how much or how little one wants to work.
Freight pays, but you sell your soul to the company store to do it. BNSF has one of the strictest policies out there, UP was easier on us. I always got 12 hours undisturbed, did it in the computer, never had to beg. BNSF guys beg borrow and steal to get some rest. Back to pay. If you keep your mouth shut and your pockets open, the RR's will fill your pockets with hundred dollar bills. But your never home, gone all the time, have to fight to take time off, and get harrased when you do. BNSF is run by the lawyers. They dictate the rules. They are now in 100% mode, i.e. 100% rule compliance 100% of the time. Like I have stated before, I ran frieght 17 years, and got beat nearly to death. I run for Amtrak now, semi retirement, and sometimes fun. 'Specially the kids.....
But the funny thing is, this job wastes me as much as frieght, and it took me a while to figure out why. In frieght, I ran a while, went into a siding, stopped, got a break, took off again..in Amtrak, once I sit down in that seat, I DO NOT STOP, for however long I have to go. Want a harsh run?? Bakersfield to Oakland, 7 hours nonstop, go go go. I get down and I am done.
As for Kismet, I run through there every day. It is a blind corner, you do not see the siding or the signal until nearly the last minute. Funny, as I was rounding that same curve at 80mph tonight, I realized that in the same situation, coming around that corner, I and nearly everyone on the train would die. Fragile, thats what this life is, fragile, and mine is in the hands of the other guy, hopefully awake, hopefully aware, that I am hurtling towards him.......with a trainload of souls who have no idea that BNSF short called him last night, and that he is fighting everything in him that says...sleep....rest laws are the single most important issue facing rails today. Nothin is more important that rest, and the BNSF treats it with such impunity that is it scary and sobering when watching that video. Rest was the only cause for it, had they been rested, they would have been stopped. I pray every day to come home to Chris safe, the odds are against it.....some day, I fully expect to round that curve and cease to exist...

[Kachina26]

Focker, I got more time sitting in the seat scratching my balls than you got total, kid. :D
So that's why the hoggers always wipe down the control stand!!! :D

[boatsnblondes]

Yup...control stands are like public bathroom door handles, never touch them unless you wipe them down first....:D

[GHT]

We are, BNB wishes he was :D
It can take a mile or better to stop. I'm just a yard dog, so you would have to ask BNB or Howard, as they have more road experience than I.
Money wise, you don't get paid for time spent in the hotel away from home. I know guys that make 140k a year, but they are old heads that get paid for things that I have to do for free. Working the extraboard in the yard could pay as much as 84k a year and you sleep in your own bed. You can make as little as 48k a year as a helper on a regular job if you don't take extra work. Sorry I couldn't give you a better answer, but it all depends on how much or how little one wants to work.
Cool... Thanks for informing me of what you did that is close enough.. I was just curious. I also always wondered how people get an Engineer job. I mean you never see adds in the paper and I have had to contact U.P. for construction issues and seem to NEVER be able to speak with a real person that knows anything. It is as if it is some sort of Secret society;) .

[thecraz]

i did 34 years between southern pacific and union pacific retired in 2004 hire date july 10 1970. when i first went to work the hours of service was 16 hours a day but you got 10 hours off so the old head conductors would tie up at 15' 59" so they could go back to work in 8 hours.

[boatsnblondes]

This is all that is left of one of the engines..... (http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=45962)
BTW, the pic above is of the engine that the footage was shot from, not all, but a growing number of frieght units are being equipped with onboard dash cams. This was one of them, while the cams are there to help fend off lawsuits from retarded reletives of retarded people who step in front of trains, they do from time to time catch stuff such as this. We all knew of the existance of this tape after the incident, and while it was shown to BNSF types as a scared straight thingy, no one else has seen it till now. Someone leaked this, as BNSF has not been open in showing it. I sincerly hope that the rails on here keep this in mind when they are out there, as frieght is boring and mundane work, not the fun stuff it looks to be...the engine was scrapped on site, total loss. Sobering, huh?

[02HoWaRd26]

The guy that jumped out at the end, just before the crash....wouldn't it be safer to stay inside the steel locomotive, than risk it rolling on top of you?
RTJas
That would be a split second decision that we all talk about but noone knows till they are in those shoes, and it is going on I feel first instict for me at least would be get the F$CK off

[02HoWaRd26]

I am 25 starting my 5th year with BNSF, and mind you you can make as much money as you wanna I made triple last year you are never home like BNB said you sell your soul to the co. but it is a cool JOB i guess, I believe BNB is actually from the area of this incident, the crew on the train with the camera did not have any time to react, if you watcch it closely you will see they only had meer seconds of knowledge the train was still moving, the second you see the signal go from red over green to red over red is when they KNEW you always look 3-4-5-6 times and think stuff is still coming at you but it is decieving... And as we get little rest in life sometimes what Kachina has said is the worste case senario, however like stated you sit on a train climbing cajon @ 12-14 mph for hours you will just fatique yourself out all day with the kids or the friends and think your not going to work till 10 in the morning tommorrow then get called @2am instead you never know your life is 24/7 on call. And yes you have to get on your knees and blow someone just about just to get 1 day off... ok done for now time for bed just got off a train... haha

[Sleek-Jet]

This is all that is left of one of the engines..... (http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=45962)
BTW, the pic above is of the engine that the footage was shot from, not all, but a growing number of frieght units are being equipped with onboard dash cams. This was one of them, while the cams are there to help fend off lawsuits from retarded reletives of retarded people who step in front of trains, they do from time to time catch stuff such as this. We all knew of the existance of this tape after the incident, and while it was shown to BNSF types as a scared straight thingy, no one else has seen it till now. Someone leaked this, as BNSF has not been open in showing it. I sincerly hope that the rails on here keep this in mind when they are out there, as frieght is boring and mundane work, not the fun stuff it looks to be...the engine was scrapped on site, total loss. Sobering, huh?
I was sitting at the crossing enjoying my 10 minute commute to work growing to a 20 minute one, as one of the UP traines eased onto the sidding this morning. You could see the camera mounted on the conductors side of the train (that would be the right side, correct???). So now I've got something else to look for in the mornings, I can keep track (no pun) of how many trains have cameras. :D

[boatsnblondes]

The cameras are/were a contentious issue between crewmembers and the RR's. While everyone understood the RR's need to at least TRY to protect themselves after losing some big money for stupid reasons, we also decided that what happenes in the cab, stays in the cab. No recording in the cab. Thus, you don't hear the crewmembers voices in the tape. The mic is mounted externally to verify horn, bell, etc. A lot of people, on other forums have even gone so far as to declare the tape a fake, to which some chimed in and told them to grow up. The tape is real enough to send shivers down spines everywhere. To all you rails, be safe today.:D

[RiverToysJas]

At least we have facilities to use when stuck out there for 12 hours....
http://www.csx-sucks.com/images/pic/2273hole.jpg
Well obviously you don't use any of that time to clean up after yourselves! :jawdrop:
RTJas :D

[02HoWaRd26]

Actually the conductors side is the left the engineer is on the right, and the sad thing is is if people think that video is a fake tell the guy who was conductor on the one that got hit I was friends with him while I was in that area working he hired right behind me. plus those units went through Barstow and sat there for a few days and we all got to see what can happen in a split second of closing your eyes...

[02HoWaRd26]

They have deleated that video already... I knew it would not take long

[boatsnblondes]

It's up on youtube again.....had a close one today, down by una, had a cement truck run the gates...plugged it and missed the truck by 5 feet....had 140+ on board..not a good day...other than that, just another day at the office....:rolleyes: