Page AZ is clueless on AVGas sales...

[Mardonzi]

On May 1, 2007, the City of Page decided that they were no longer going to sell AVGas to boaters or off road enthusiasts. They site that there are EPA and FAA regulations against this practice. This is WRONG. The FAA does not mandate who sells what kind of fuel. They are in the business of regulating air travel.
The EPA has a specific exclusion on the restriction of sale of Leaded fuel, including AVGas for Offroad and Marine applications.
When I talked with Richard Jentz, the airport manager about this today, first he sited EPA restricitions, which I informed him were incorrect. Then he said, "well, it's against FAA regulations" which once again I informed him was incorrect.
He then stated that it was an insurance issue and the city didn't want the liability of having a hi performance motor blow up. When I suggested a legal release of liability to fuel, his stance was "that's just the way we are going to do things" and walked off.
Seems to me that someone has a bit of a power trip happening.
There is one outlet for racing fuel in town, but they are charging $9.00 a gallon for it. What are the going prices in Havasu or Parker???
Oh,, and if anyone wants to help out and call the City of Page Airport Manager, his number is 928-645-8861.
Thanks...

[Jbb]

I have been approched a couple of times and asked for a tail number while filling up my jugs with 100......I give them my friends Gulfstream 4 tail number....lol....and off they go....I think it may be a tax issue

[squirt'nmyload]

sounds like it's time for a midnight trip to the airport with a garden hose and some 5 gallon cans:D :D no problems getting it at falcon field in mesa :)

[Mardonzi]

Not sure about the tax thing being as it's not a Road Use issue....
Lake Havasu will even let you use thier self serve pump...

[DEEZ NUTTS]

Self serve in Flag too.

[Sleek-Jet]

his stance was "that's just the way we are going to do things" and walked off.
Seems to me that someone has a bit of a power trip happening.
...
Sounds like every other airport manager I've ever dealt with...
They do have one leg to stand on the tax issue... there are no road taxes collected on 100LL... so they can balk at pumping it into anything other than an aircraft.

[Sleek-Jet]

I have been approched a couple of times and asked for a tail number while filling up my jugs with 100......I give them my friends Gulfstream 4 tail number....lol....and off they go....I think it may be a tax issue
Ok, that's total BS....
Everyone knows you don't have any friends Brian... :D

[Sleek-Jet]

sounds like it's time for a midnight trip to the airport with a garden hose and some 5 gallon cans:D :D no problems getting it at falcon field in mesa :)
Self serve in Flag too.
That's because the fuel sales at both those places are by private businesses, not the city, and they like as much business as you can give them.
I believe the city of Page sells the fuel, the FBO just get's a flowage for pumping it.

[burtandnancy2]

I used to run into that at a lot of small airports. They eventually figure out how much income they are loosing and come around. I used any tail number I could read from the tank farm or self serve pump. Thats gotta be tough at Page, there aren't many options. There were some airports that even ran a tanker down to the beach to service our race boats...

[Jbb]

Ok, that's total BS....
Everyone knows you don't have any friends Brian... :D
...Hmmm....you got me there....perhaps ..acquantince...would be more accurate?....:jawdrop:

[Mardonzi]

That's because the fuel sales at both those places are by private businesses, not the city, and they like as much business as you can give them.
I believe the city of Page sells the fuel, the FBO just get's a flowage for pumping it.
Wrong-o... 2 seperate FBO's on field, and they are both selling the product, not fronting it for the city.
Deez, looks like I'll be running to Flagstaff to load up a few times this summer..

[Racey]

I think it comes down to them not wanting guys on the Tarmac around the planes, making it dangerous for everyone. If you go in at night this isnt a problem because there is no one around, A few dumb idiots not paying attention to the planes can ruin it for the rest of us, those things don't manuever like a car. Had the same problem at Boulder City here so we started going late at night and no one bothers you.
Oh and as far as the Tail numbers go, i'm pretty sure thats just a convience for pilots to keep records on their fuel receipts. I always just push in 000000

[Mardonzi]

I think it comes down to them not wanting guys on the Tarmac around the planes, making it dangerous for everyone. If you go in at night this isnt a problem because there is no one around, A few dumb idiots not paying attention to the planes can ruin it for the rest of us, those things don't manuever like a car. Had the same problem at Boulder City here so we started going late at night and no one bothers you.
Oh and as far as the Tail numbers go, i'm pretty sure thats just a convience for pilots to keep records on their fuel receipts. I always just push in 000000
It's controlled access 24/7 there. They have to direct you in and out so you are seperated from the A/C at all times. They don't even have a touch pad for the gate. You have to have a card.

[Sleek-Jet]

Wrong-o... 2 seperate FBO's on field, and they are both selling the product, not fronting it for the city.
Deez, looks like I'll be running to Flagstaff to load up a few times this summer..
Are you sure?? Their price for Jet-A is identical, and the price for 100LL not that far off. Otherwise, I don't see how the FBO's don't just give the manager the finger and keep pumping gas into boats.
I know when I looked at purchasing an FBO lease a few years ago, that was a stipulation the city was going to put in the lease, all I was going to get was flowage, but I had to provide the trucks... :rolleyes: Page was one of the airports they sighted as having the same fuel arrangement in the lease.

[Mardonzi]

Are you sure?? Their price for Jet-A is identical, and the price for 100LL not that far off. Otherwise, I don't see how the FBO's don't just give the manager the finger and keep pumping gas into boats.
I know when I looked at purchasing an FBO lease a few years ago, that was a stipulation the city was going to put in the lease, all I was going to get was flowage, but I had to provide the trucks... :rolleyes: Page was one of the airports they sighted as having the same fuel arrangement in the lease.
There are 2 FBO's on field, American and Classic. American had the contract to service the local airline (Great Lakes) but was having an issue getting Jet A delivered to thier tanks. Classic had to pick up the slack and service them.
Classic is a BP dealer where as American is an AvFuel outlet...

[Sleek-Jet]

There are 2 FBO's on field, American and Classic. American had the contract to service the local airline (Great Lakes) but was having an issue getting Jet A delivered to thier tanks. Classic had to pick up the slack and service them.
Classic is a BP dealer where as American is an AvFuel outlet...
Gotcha... things must have changed or I was getting fed a line of crap... my guess is the second.
Hope American is getting cash each time it fills a 1900... Great Mistakes has been known to, shall we say, extend payment on their fuel tabs...

[Mardonzi]

Gotcha... things must have changed or I was getting fed a line of crap... my guess is the second.
Hope American is getting cash each time it fills a 1900... Great Mistakes has been known to, shall we say, extend payment on their fuel tabs...
Well, lets just say the they are "Peas in a Pod" then,,

[Beer-30]

Sounds like every other airport manager I've ever dealt with...
They do have one leg to stand on the tax issue... there are no road taxes collected on 100LL... so they can balk at pumping it into anything other than an aircraft.
Ding ding ding!

[Ziggy]

perhaps its their way of trying to keep the high performance boats off the lake...........:idea: cuz you know, we're dangerous :rolleyes: :D

[BADBLOWN572]

There is one outlet for racing fuel in town, but they are charging $9.00 a gallon for it. What are the going prices in Havasu or Parker???
I saw that Race Fuel was at $5.40/gal this weekend. Not sure what Av Gas costs. BoardsmnJ could help you out on that one.

[Mandelon]

perhaps its their way of trying to keep the high performance boats off the lake...........:idea: cuz you know, we're dangerous :rolleyes: :D
"We" ?? :D

[Beer-30]

The no-road-tax dealio is the biggie here in CA. Don't know how AZ or NV does their road/fuel taxes.
100LL won't give you near the performance of real race fuel. It is designed specifically for steady low-RPM engines. There is no high rpm in aviation piston engines. There are a few that spin 3500 max, but 95% of Continentals and Lycomings are limited to 2700 or so.

[riverbound]

I saw that Race Fuel was at $5.40/gal this weekend. Not sure what Av Gas costs. BoardsmnJ could help you out on that one.
AV was in the $4 range.

[Jbb]

The no-road-tax dealio is the biggie here in CA. Don't know how AZ or NV does their road/fuel taxes.
100LL won't give you near the performance of real race fuel. It is designed specifically for steady low-RPM engines. There is no high rpm in aviation piston engines. There are a few that spin 3500 max, but 95% of Continentals and Lycomings are limited to 2700 or so.
Are you sure?....:D
I read a study a while back that address just that issue....
The study said something to the effect ...that on an engine designed to run on 100 octane ...for the purpose of detonation suppression....that running say 108 or 110 actually decreased performance .....Something about burn speed and flame propagation.....
I will try to dig that article up

[Beer-30]

Are you sure?....:D
I read a study a while back that address just that issue....
The study said something to the effect ...that on an engine designed to run on 100 octane ...for the purpose of detonation suppression....that running say 108 or 110 actually decreased performance .....Something about burn speed and flame propagation.....
I will try to dig that article up
That may be....for octane purposes alone. I read a similar study, I'll have to look for it, that explained the characteristics of different fuels. I am not a fuel chemist, so I can't say exactly. There was something about the fact that AV 100LL is 6 lbs/gal, as opposed to car gas (9 or around there?). Many of the compounds left out are for higher revs and specific traits needed for constant acceleration, up and down.

[Beer-30]

AV was in the $4 range.
I just paid $4.06, out of the truck, at North Las Vegas.

[Sleek-Jet]

I just paid $4.06, out of the truck, at North Las Vegas.
Page is advertizing $4.15 and $4.25 on Airnav this morning.
I payed $3.99 at the u-pump-it here in Tucson last week.

[Beer-30]

Page is advertizing $4.15 and $4.25 on Airnav this morning.
I payed $3.99 at the u-pump-it here in Tucson last week.
If from an FBO, it depends on how honest they are. You can either be paying the price based on what they paid for that load that is in the storage tank - or the price that current load would bring.
Hence, the 3.99. Probably left over fuel from the last load. Next load will be at a higher rate. The FBO we deal with in Tulare is pretty honest.

[Sleek-Jet]

If from an FBO, it depends on how honest they are. You can either be paying the price based on what they paid for that load that is in the storage tank - or the price that current load would bring.
Hence, the 3.99. Probably left over fuel from the last load. Next load will be at a higher rate. The FBO we deal with in Tulare is pretty honest.
At the FBO... u-pump-it is the self serve island..
For whatever reason we are usually a quarter less than everyone else in the area... out of the truck I think it's around 4.30/gallon right now.

[Ziggy]

"We" ?? :D
Don't question me, its the internet LOL :D:D And I'm dangerous, don't ya know.. :rolleyes: :)
.
I'm happy I can use pump gas.
;)

[Beer-30]

At the FBO... u-pump-it is the self serve island..
For whatever reason we are usually a quarter less than everyone else in the area... out of the truck I think it's around 4.30/gallon right now.
When I filled at Vegas, it was $3.99 at the self-serve, but I thought $4.06 was quite reasonable for the truck. It would have cost me the savings just to taxi to the island.

[Sleek-Jet]

When I filled at Vegas, it was $3.99 at the self-serve, but I thought $4.06 was quite reasonable for the truck. It would have cost me the savings just to taxi to the island.
I used to go into North Las Vegas all the time, and it's always been that way. Never could figure out why the truck price was so close to the self-serve price.

[Jordy]

Get your av prices here:
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html