Whats Happened to Building Your Own Boat

[Pops@Aggressor]

I know Im Old- But you went to Rudy Ramos or Len Schiada, Or Jerry Wright, Roger Wieman. Ordered a Hull. You bought it in stages 1 Hull Bare- Hull & Trailer or Strut set ETc. Picked you gel coat, tabbed it at home if you wanted deck tabed etc. Ordered your own trailer, Picked motor and running gear, Picked who would do the upholstry.
It was not the fact you built it (meaning you had a hand in every bolt) It was the Bud's all comming over to wrench in the garage, the Belley Laughs, cutting up and as each stage completed, you stand for hours thinking about the fun- Its Setting in it late at night on a crate driving it when every one else has gone to bed hours before.
Then that day arrives- The First Take Out- every bud you have shows up- all came and had a hand in it. WOW.
I guess them old days are gone- now you take out a big 2nd on your home. Have it built or pick it from a lot. Take it out and your the big dog- Untill your neighbor takes out a bigger second and builds it bigger. Whats this about, You don't know where one bolt is or how to fix anything so you tow it down to someone who know's.
3 years ago I sold a drive to a customer who had bought and owned 2 Power boats 33' and a 44' I asked him why he was restoring a old Jet he had picked up. It had a Jacuzzi in it and it was old. He said Dave I get in anyone of my boats and I can run 110 down the middle of the lake.
All I do is steer it- One day I am on the river doing just that- Start thinking of my old days Jet boating-As im doing that I drop my arm over to get a hand full of water- thats when I look and im 6' above the water. Now to get to the water I stop the boat climb over the back and dive in.
get back in the seat and take off just steering my boat again. That action brought back all the reasons why he had so much fun vs now. He said he could play with the 18' Jet, drop his arm on a warm cruise and grab a hand full of water in the 105 degree weather and splash his face and know he was alive.
The boat he restored to a fine piece- His shop and he re-glassed the intake in and did a 100% go over before he sent it to Tom Papp to set the intake. After that he took it back to his shop for detail and paint. Tom got the boat one more time to finish up detail and called me and said POP you have got to see this thing "Its A Flat Showpiece"
Just a alternative.

[thatguy]

Amen brother.

[MudPumper]

Great post Pops. Thats what its all about, hanging your hand over the side and feeling the water.:idea: I do that all the time.

[SB]

Everything is disposable now. The new technology is too hard to work on. We're too busy working.
I like the feel of a little splash of water on my face now and then. Windsurfing is great for that too.
The women I meet think boating means having someone serve them drinks on the fantail.

[roostwear]

What are these "new" boats you speak of? Did they keep making boats after the mid 80's? 6 feet from the water? I'm damn lucky I'm 8 inches from the water!
I know what you're saying... even if I was so inclined to buy a "new" boat, I doubt I would. I have to have the project..... something to make my own and get that rush first time it gets wet. I like saving a litle bit of history, too. Maybe the next one will start with a bare hull.
BTW, anyone know where I can get a loader for a 65 Stevens flatbottom jet with a JA?

[Goad]

I love posts like this....and thats just what I am trying to do....bring the roots of the garage mechanics back. The only difference is that we are restoring them in the garage, not building them. Complete tear downs and new gel and re-rigged. Thats what its all about....having your friends over for some beers and workin on the boat and everyone jumpin in the truck for the weekend to go put it on the river when its done.
I guess it still happens to a degree, but its rare to hear about someone who 'built' a 22'+ boat.

[Aluminum Squirt]

Agreed!!! I have a nice 21' I/O with a 496HO. Its a really nice boat, goes reasonably fast, holds the family, etc. Cost a lot of money too, I get reminded of it every month when I make the payment. You know what, I don't really care about that boat and I'm thinking of selling it.
On the other hand I have a 16' all aluminum race boat with a SBC and a Legend pump. It cost roughly what the 496HO upgrade cost on my family boat. I think about it all the time, I turn wrenches on it as much as possible. I spend time thinking about it at work. I save my change in the ashtray and buy parts for it. That's what its all about. I think I'm going to sell the big boat, maybe buy a pontoon boat for the family and raise my boys properly.....strapped into 5 point seat belts with a lifeline on and a 6 point cage around them skating through 3" of water or tackling a class IV rapid. That's what jet boating and hot boating is all about, not 6 figure boats with 6' of freeboard and nothing that can be worked on by a normal guy-Aluminum Squirt

[ck7684]

Yea...I was looking at the "old boat ads" and even they list different stages, but now it's all complete. Liability may have something to do with it?? I also think people want instant gratification and need everything now now now!!! Dont wanna wait to put things together!! ...
Even new cars dont really have options, but rather "preferred option packages"

[LOWRIVER2]

To each their own.
I don't bag on a guy that buys a boat vs. building one. Building a nice,new competitive river boat that does'nt just go from A to B is'nt cheap these days. Talk to Scotten or another small hull builder for a new hull. Try 18k plus for a new hull. Add a decent motor (15k and up over 30 for a contender), pump new will be another 3-5k with decent parts.
If you're talking swap meet used, then that's one thing but for building a clean, new piece, you're easily 30k into a decent ride.
A lot of kids don't have parents that never got them into wrenching so they either opt for a tournament boat or go big.
Add to that the lack of any affordable river or close river property south of Parker (due to indian land), and you have the masses going to Havasu, Needles, and north. This increase in boats on lakes means everyone goes big just to boat over the increased swells of the lake.
I'm all for small boats and do it yourself 'ers but I do see the other side of buying a bigger boat and being able to own property (not paying lease to anyone) and live near a town with all amenities nearby.
And for boating in So cal lakes, no way, testing only, Az. waters or bust for me.

[vee-driven]

I build my own boats, motors, bikes, and classic cars. I do all the mechanical stuff, the only things i don't do is paint and headliners. I get satisfaction from standing back and looking at the finished product and saying to myself i built that. Any body can walk in with a credit card and get something done but to me that aint a true hot rodder either on the water or the street. All my projects are filled with many hours of blood, sweat, tears and cussing.

[bikerboater]

Good thread. Hate to say it but it's not just boats. I'm into vintage British sportscars and I have a Harley. See the same thing. Most (not all) of the younger crowd would rather just whip out the checkbook than get their hands dirty. Maybe time constraint has something to do with it? Or maybe they just have the cash? In my case, If I didn't know how to work on it, I sure coundn't afford it. I think a whole generation is missing out on the personal gratification of building/restoreing/maintaining stuff. Guess that's progress.

[IMPATIENT 1]

I know Im Old- But you went to Rudy Ramos or Len Schiada, Or Jerry Wright, Roger Wieman. Ordered a Hull. You bought it in stages 1 Hull Bare- Hull & Trailer or Strut set ETc. Picked you gel coat, tabbed it at home if you wanted deck tabed etc. Ordered your own trailer, Picked motor and running gear, Picked who would do the upholstry.
It was not the fact you built it (meaning you had a hand in every bolt) It was the Bud's all comming over to wrench in the garage, the Belley Laughs, cutting up and as each stage completed, you stand for hours thinking about the fun- Its Setting in it late at night on a crate driving it when every one else has gone to bed hours before.
Then that day arrives- The First Take Out- every bud you have shows up- all came and had a hand in it. WOW.
I guess them old days are gone- now you take out a big 2nd on your home. Have it built or pick it from a lot. Take it out and your the big dog- Untill your neighbor takes out a bigger second and builds it bigger. Whats this about, You don't know where one bolt is or how to fix anything so you tow it down to someone who know's.
3 years ago I sold a drive to a customer who had bought and owned 2 Power boats 33' and a 44' I asked him why he was restoring a old Jet he had picked up. It had a Jacuzzi in it and it was old. He said Dave I get in anyone of my boats and I can run 110 down the middle of the lake.
All I do is steer it- One day I am on the river doing just that- Start thinking of my old days Jet boating-As im doing that I drop my arm over to get a hand full of water- thats when I look and im 6' above the water. Now to get to the water I stop the boat climb over the back and dive in.
get back in the seat and take off just steering my boat again. That action brought back all the reasons why he had so much fun vs now. He said he could play with the 18' Jet, drop his arm on a warm cruise and grab a hand full of water in the 105 degree weather and splash his face and know he was alive.
The boat he restored to a fine piece- His shop and he re-glassed the intake in and did a 100% go over before he sent it to Tom Papp to set the intake. After that he took it back to his shop for detail and paint. Tom got the boat one more time to finish up detail and called me and said POP you have got to see this thing "Its A Flat Showpiece"
Just a alternative.
i did that. oh wait, i bought a $7500 piece o shiat gullwing and redone it:D well i did change out almost everything, does that count lol?

[cyclone]

if i had the space i'd probably still be snapping up old Rogers hulls and restoring them. As it is, i'm content to tinker with what i've got.
The good ol days of buying a bare hull and building everything for yourself are not gone. You can still buy a new Cheyenne, CP, gullwing and many others from the guys that have the molds.
I'd love to buy one more new hull and using what i've learned, rig it the way i want. Probably won't happen in the near future, but someday i'll do it again.

[BrendellaJet]

Man thats all I hav ebeen doing for the last 4 years. When I got my boat All I saw was red headers and a cool scoop. Shaaaaawing! Sold on the spot. What a mistake(Only the hull & pump were usable, but the pump is a jacuzzi). But boy did I get lucky at the same time(decent hull for going fast). Fortunately for me the hull was structurally sound, just needed some cracks repaired. After many failed attempts learning how to do thing myself I started getting them right one at a time. COUNTLESS nights and weekends, sanding filing, drilling, measuring, cutting, saving, ding everything I could on my own so I could attempt to justify the cost of my motor.:) Every night I go out and stare at it, then i sit in it. Fock I want to drive it so bad!
In less than 2 weeks it is finally gonna get wet and I cant friggin believe it. Yeeeehaaaaw. Lake Elsinore here I come!

[Mr. Crusader 83]

Great post. I was actually thinking of stripping mine down, selling the hull and trailer for whatever I could get and finding a tunnel that needs to be completely redone, and building that focker in my garage. Build my motor, put my new pump in it, and my seats and gauges. paint and a stout motor is about all i would need to do.

[Mr. Crusader 83]

if i had the space i'd probably still be snapping up old Rogers hulls and restoring them. As it is, i'm content to tinker with what i've got.
The good ol days of buying a bare hull and building everything for yourself are not gone. You can still buy a new Cheyenne, CP, gullwing and many others from the guys that have the molds.
I'd love to buy one more new hull and using what i've learned, rig it the way i want. Probably won't happen in the near future, but someday i'll do it again.
Mike you have a beautiful boat. why in the world would you wanna do it again.

[Bahner tunnel]

I just finished my winter project and after the first few trips out I'm still stoked with the finished product. I picked the bare hull with pump installed up from a friend at the end of last year and have been on it ever since.
2 weeks of wiring , 50' of braided line and around 30 fittings, $300 in random bolts and wire. I traded a boat that was worth roughly 10K for the project and I have around 12-13k in it since. I don't feel too bad because I see stock ones going for that range that this boat will eat up running pump gas.
At times I wish I would have just walked in to the local dealer and plopped down some dough and went the easy way out. 40k and 55 mph doesn't sound very appealing to me. I like a project and can handle basically everything up the the interior and balancing the internals.
This boat is a sort of a resume of my mechanical skills ( this may sound corny ) , like a report card of things I like to do at home.
It is satifing to step back at the sand bar and look over the sweat and tears of the last 5 months, plus chicks dig clean boats.:D
Now for the set up.... time to get this pig dailed.:confused:

[cyclone]

Mike you have a beautiful boat. why in the world would you wanna do it again.
this is gonna sound crazy but when i first rigged the boat i mounted the forward/reverse shifter in the gunnel and then moved it between the seats later on. i hate that there's a hole with an aluminum plate covering it in the gunnel now.
when i had the blower motor i added a pair of water dumps in the transom for the innercooler. i dont need those dumps anymore so now there's two other holes with covers in transom.
it may sound nuts but i hate having unnecessary holes in my boat.
I'd like to someday have the exact same hull but re-rig it perfectly with no extra holes. i'm weird like that i guess. I could have the holes filled but the gel coat would not match perfectly so i'm leaving them as is.
No one notices this stuff but me so its not that big of a deal. like i said, i'll probably not do another new one but it would be cool start over and do it perfectly.

[cyclone]

I just finished my winter project and after the first few trips out I'm still stoked with the finished product. I picked the bare hull with pump installed up from a friend at the end of last year and have been on it ever since.
2 weeks of wiring , 50' of braided line and around 30 fittings, $300 in random bolts and wire. I traded a boat that was worth roughly 10K for the project and I have around 12-13k in it since. I don't feel too bad because I see stock ones going for that range that this boat will eat up running pump gas.
At times I wish I would have just walked in to the local dealer and plopped down some dough and went the easy way out. 40k and 55 mph doesn't sound very appealing to me. I like a project and can handle basically everything up the the interior and balancing the internals.
This boat is a sort of a resume of my mechanical skills ( this may sound corny ) , like a report card of things I like to do at home.
It is satifing to step back at the sand bar and look over the sweat and tears of the last 5 months, plus chicks dig clean boats.:D
Now for the set up.... time to get this pig dailed.:confused:
nice boat. what's up with the C-10 in the background?

[cyclone]

I just finished my winter project and after the first few trips out I'm still stoked with the finished product. I picked the bare hull with pump installed up from a friend at the end of last year and have been on it ever since.
2 weeks of wiring , 50' of braided line and around 30 fittings, $300 in random bolts and wire. I traded a boat that was worth roughly 10K for the project and I have around 12-13k in it since. I don't feel too bad because I see stock ones going for that range that this boat will eat up running pump gas.
At times I wish I would have just walked in to the local dealer and plopped down some dough and went the easy way out. 40k and 55 mph doesn't sound very appealing to me. I like a project and can handle basically everything up the the interior and balancing the internals.
This boat is a sort of a resume of my mechanical skills ( this may sound corny ) , like a report card of things I like to do at home.
It is satifing to step back at the sand bar and look over the sweat and tears of the last 5 months, plus chicks dig clean boats.:D
Now for the set up.... time to get this pig dailed.:confused:
nice boat. what's up with the C-10 in the background?

[MudPumper]

this is gonna sound crazy but when i first rigged the boat i mounted the forward/reverse shifter in the gunnel and then moved it between the seats later on. i hate that there's a hole with an aluminum plate covering it in the gunnel now.
when i had the blower motor i added a pair of water dumps in the transom for the innercooler. i dont need those dumps anymore so now there's two other holes with covers in transom.
it may sound nuts but i hate having unnecessary holes in my boat.
I'd like to someday have the exact same hull but re-rig it perfectly with no extra holes. i'm weird like that i guess. I could have the holes filled but the gel coat would not match perfectly so i'm leaving them as is.
No one notices this stuff but me so its not that big of a deal. like i said, i'll probably not do another new one but it would be cool start over and do it perfectly.
Mike, I say you ditch the AL plate on the gunnel and mount a beer holder there. then you won't feel so bad about the hole.:D

[Bahner tunnel]

nice boat. what's up with the C-10 in the background?
I just sold it and the other one I had to a friend a few weeks ago. I had 2 1968's one a short bed and the one in the picture was a long bed for parts. The boat replaced the truck project, I want to get a car for the next toy, like a 64-65 Falcon futura or Chevelle. Ive been watching Pinks too much lately and need a car that pulls the front end up through an intersection.
The truck was a steal, it had disc , leafs and a 12 bolt , ps, auto, all the cool stuff. It would have been nice in a year or so. Timing was off for a truck in my schedule. The boat on the other hand needed to get done ASAP, summer was just around the corner.

[vee-driven]

speaking of building thing and c-10's heres one i have been building.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/path5150/patsnewpics025-2.jpg

[BIGAMIST]

speaking of building thing and c-10's heres one i have been building.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/path5150/patsnewpics025-2.jpg
For sale?????

[vee-driven]

For sale?????
i couldnt get anywhere near what i have into it sofar.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I know Im Old- But you went to Rudy Ramos or Len Schiada, Or Jerry Wright, Roger Wieman. Ordered a Hull. You bought it in stages 1 Hull Bare- Hull & Trailer or Strut set ETc. Picked you gel coat, tabbed it at home if you wanted deck tabed etc. Ordered your own trailer, Picked motor and running gear, Picked who would do the upholstry.
It was not the fact you built it (meaning you had a hand in every bolt) It was the Bud's all comming over to wrench in the garage, the Belley Laughs, cutting up and as each stage completed, you stand for hours thinking about the fun- Its Setting in it late at night on a crate driving it when every one else has gone to bed hours before.
Then that day arrives- The First Take Out- every bud you have shows up- all came and had a hand in it. WOW.
I guess them old days are gone- now you take out a big 2nd on your home. Have it built or pick it from a lot. Take it out and your the big dog- Untill your neighbor takes out a bigger second and builds it bigger. Whats this about, You don't know where one bolt is or how to fix anything so you tow it down to someone who know's.
3 years ago I sold a drive to a customer who had bought and owned 2 Power boats 33' and a 44' I asked him why he was restoring a old Jet he had picked up. It had a Jacuzzi in it and it was old. He said Dave I get in anyone of my boats and I can run 110 down the middle of the lake.
All I do is steer it- One day I am on the river doing just that- Start thinking of my old days Jet boating-As im doing that I drop my arm over to get a hand full of water- thats when I look and im 6' above the water. Now to get to the water I stop the boat climb over the back and dive in.
get back in the seat and take off just steering my boat again. That action brought back all the reasons why he had so much fun vs now. He said he could play with the 18' Jet, drop his arm on a warm cruise and grab a hand full of water in the 105 degree weather and splash his face and know he was alive.
The boat he restored to a fine piece- His shop and he re-glassed the intake in and did a 100% go over before he sent it to Tom Papp to set the intake. After that he took it back to his shop for detail and paint. Tom got the boat one more time to finish up detail and called me and said POP you have got to see this thing "Its A Flat Showpiece"
Just a alternative.
Best post I've read in a long time!! :cool:

[blue wonder]

this is gonna sound crazy but when i first rigged the boat i mounted the forward/reverse shifter in the gunnel and then moved it between the seats later on. i hate that there's a hole with an aluminum plate covering it in the gunnel now.
when i had the blower motor i added a pair of water dumps in the transom for the innercooler. i dont need those dumps anymore so now there's two other holes with covers in transom.
it may sound nuts but i hate having unnecessary holes in my boat.
I'd like to someday have the exact same hull but re-rig it perfectly with no extra holes. i'm weird like that i guess. I could have the holes filled but the gel coat would not match perfectly so i'm leaving them as is.
No one notices this stuff but me so its not that big of a deal. like i said, i'll probably not do another new one but it would be cool start over and do it perfectly.
amen brother!!!!!...you are preaching to the choir!!!!!...i just got done converting mine over to center steer...my stringers look like swiss cheese...and my aluminum looks like its been shot with buckshot...freakin holes everywhere!!!!!....i would love to start over with a bare hull!!!!

[djdtpr]

Great post POPS! I thank god that when i bought my Stealth from Tommy i had the chance to completly rig it and use my pump and motor. It is a priceless feeling when out on the water. There arent many guys that will sell ya a bare hull cause i think it makes them look bad if the rigging is not properly don or hacked together. I definatly respect a guy that builds his own stuff over the pay the shop guy though!

[Cas]

Dave, After our friggin 2 hour conversation a couple of weeks ago I was kind of wondering when you were going to post something like that up. As you know, I completely agree with all you posted. Even though my boat doesn't look near what a lot of these guys have, it's come 1 hell of a long way since I got it. There's still a little ways to go on it but I decided to take some time off with the big stuff so we could just enjoy the boat.
I really think there would be a pretty good market for old school type boats with the same type of levels for purchase. A basic 1 or 2 color gel, bare hull to complete turn key, options/upgrades, different power options....you know what I'm referring to :)

[TRG]

You guys have said all i would want to say above, so i guess i have to let canuk know that in his sig the comment about the hippies is real funny!
good job buddy!

[moneysucker]

I agree with Cyclone 100% my aluminum has been drilled and redrilled for different configurations over the last 29 years and me re doing the boat 5 times and changing tanks, surge tanks, fuel systems, electrical...I did drill 2 additional dumps in the hull but no more holes have been in the hull. The spare holes in the stringers irritate the hell out of me as well although I do like the weight savings created. I am seriously looking to start over with something, either a cheyanne, a TPR by Ultra, a daytona or something that I can turn out a nice fast good riding boat with my gel scheme and knowing what I have learned from my SWTD I should be able to build a nice piece.

[LuckyDaze]

God its good to hear some refreshing talk. I just spent the last 4 hours stooped over in my boat with my brother in law fiberglassing in my false bottom. Now we are having a beer talking about the day we get to take it out. We are all itchy from the damned fiberglass, and our backs hurt from being stooped over for so long but now he has a part in this project. And soon we get to take the boat out and cup our hands down to the water and get a splash of that refreshing thing we call life. Its good to hear these things, and I am happy to see people who still take pride in their little jet boats.
Yeah, they might not be the fastest.... no, they may not do 110 miles an hour in the roughest chop... But they have personality. They were built with the blood sweat and beers of their owners who constantly keep them up and looking good.
Amen to the present day Jet Boater, keeping the esprit de corps alive in the jet boat way of life.
~Brian

[Cs19]

Look at Steelcomps build up, that was one heckuva job he did and its sano as can be, there are PLENTY of guys out there that are up to the challenge.They may not all be on ***boat but they are out there.
Im doing every aspect of my deal, engine, pump, fabricated intake, every piece of aluminum on the boat, its alot of work but its nice to sit back and look at what you have accomplished.:)

[Goad]

Amen to the present day Jet Boater, keeping the esprit de corps alive in the jet boat way of life.
~Brian
well said. http://www.***boat.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[blue wonder]

Look at Steelcomps build up, that was one heckuva job he did and its sano as can be, there are PLENTY of guys out there that are up to the challenge.They may not all be on ***boat but they are out there.
Im doing every aspect of my deal, engine, pump, fabricated intake, every piece of aluminum on the boat, its alot of work but its nice to sit back and look at what you have accomplished.:)
well quit typing and more fabricating...i want to see that thing run!!!!...are you gonna make june????...hope so...missed ya at the last race.

[zudnic]

Excellant posting... I grew up near the Pacific, so I'm just getting into jets and as a 80's kid, Miami Vice was a influence on my boat choices. I also really like this fresh water deal. Jets before owning one where nice boats, just started revisiting my Hot Boat mags to read the articles... Short in Offshore type stuff I only truely like one or two boats, in jets have not disliked one yet...... This topic got me thinking and thats dangerous..... :D
One of my neighbors bought a 19 foot Kavalk (changed name to Kazulin) in the late eighties. They are a modern haul with Mahogany deck runabout, so timeless classic style... I only like the deck the rest of those boats are missing something. So thats the project I'm building in my head, mat the deck with adding jet boat flair to nice BBC exposed, exhaust over the transom to a good bottom........If I did this with a Donzi Classic say most of those people would freak, in this side of boating, I could even start a trend!!! :D
All I need is some more money.. Think a cool feature of this is the covered rumble seat that will be in the bow, bow rider with classic style.........
sample pics borrowed from the Kazulin folks.....

[tightithrash]

Good post. i wouldnt say the generation is gone..... ever since i can remember ive taken old drills,lawnmowers,mixers, anything i could find and put it back together just so I could say i did that and could tell you how it works. Im 19 and i got my first jet 3 months ago from my uncle. it has been a project. i changed the cd player, every hose on the boat, put a place divertor with hydralic trim , i even had the motor out to put a bigger pan on and changed the main seal, and i did it all for myself and have enjoyed every turn of the wrench. i finally got what ive wanted to have since i remember my dad wrenchin on his tunnel so we could go to the lake that weekend. i think it would be easy to throw down the card buy a new boat and have no worries but for people like me, that is not an option and its not just the price its the insurance. i still am waiting for insurance on my boat because i dont have an engine cover! if i had bassets or a flat bottom....... insurance will laugh.... but when it all boils down, your all still kids like me turnin wrenches saving money to buy that next part and still throwing water in your face and living life on a boat! kinda got lost in the post but whatever......

[zudnic]

your all still kids .....
Good kid... Only wish 18 year old girls thought the same!!! :D

[steelcomp]

Right on, Pops.
Something aout being in the water...takes me back to my childhood where everything was good.
I have over two years in my Bahner. Some of you whitnessed some of what I did here on ***boat. I spent a lot of hours posting progress pics. The engine, the pump and intake, the hull, all the fab work, bottom bluprint, etc. It's a big comittment to do it right, but in the end, worth every second. I get lots of nice compliments, and and the thing seems to work pretty well which makes it all even more worth the while.
Now I'm doing a Spectra 19 V drive, but not near to the extent of the Bahner. :notam:
Yeah, right. :D
Good thread.

[Xlration Marine]

I know Im Old- But you went to Rudy Ramos or Len Schiada, Or Jerry Wright, Roger Wieman. Ordered a Hull. You bought it in stages 1 Hull Bare- Hull & Trailer or Strut set ETc. Picked you gel coat, tabbed it at home if you wanted deck tabed etc. Ordered your own trailer, Picked motor and running gear, Picked who would do the upholstry.
It was not the fact you built it (meaning you had a hand in every bolt) It was the Bud's all comming over to wrench in the garage, the Belley Laughs, cutting up and as each stage completed, you stand for hours thinking about the fun- Its Setting in it late at night on a crate driving it when every one else has gone to bed hours before.
Then that day arrives- The First Take Out- every bud you have shows up- all came and had a hand in it. WOW.
I guess them old days are gone- now you take out a big 2nd on your home. Have it built or pick it from a lot. Take it out and your the big dog- Untill your neighbor takes out a bigger second and builds it bigger. Whats this about, You don't know where one bolt is or how to fix anything so you tow it down to someone who know's.
3 years ago I sold a drive to a customer who had bought and owned 2 Power boats 33' and a 44' I asked him why he was restoring a old Jet he had picked up. It had a Jacuzzi in it and it was old. He said Dave I get in anyone of my boats and I can run 110 down the middle of the lake.
All I do is steer it- One day I am on the river doing just that- Start thinking of my old days Jet boating-As im doing that I drop my arm over to get a hand full of water- thats when I look and im 6' above the water. Now to get to the water I stop the boat climb over the back and dive in.
get back in the seat and take off just steering my boat again. That action brought back all the reasons why he had so much fun vs now. He said he could play with the 18' Jet, drop his arm on a warm cruise and grab a hand full of water in the 105 degree weather and splash his face and know he was alive.
The boat he restored to a fine piece- His shop and he re-glassed the intake in and did a 100% go over before he sent it to Tom Papp to set the intake. After that he took it back to his shop for detail and paint. Tom got the boat one more time to finish up detail and called me and said POP you have got to see this thing "Its A Flat Showpiece"
Just a alternative.
Right down to the fiberglass gass tanks. :) :) :)

[Cs19]

well quit typing and more fabricating...i want to see that thing run!!!!...are you gonna make june????...hope so...missed ya at the last race.
Fab work is done, its all at the polish/anno shop right now, boat is up side down right now AGAIN, waiting on the machine shop to finish a few things and its on. Ill be there soon.

[zudnic]

Right down to the fiberglass gass tanks. :) :) :)
Ethanol and fiberglass dont like each other. Wonder if some of the troubles with older boats engines with fiberglass tanks, are a result of Ethanol in gas these days..... :idea:
searched it and found: http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/fueltest.asp

[HotDogz]

Amen to the resto...:D
Been restoring a 75 Nordic for the last 4 yrs as we use it every summer. Now my neighbors have been watching me redo the glass in my driveway for the last year and the one question I am asked the most is "Why dont you just go and buy a boat thats already done?" :mad:
So I can be just like the others? Miss out on restoring classic glass?
Do you get the same feeling of pride when you buy a fully restored classic hotrod as opposed to sweating over your project for 100's of hours and seeing it through to completion? Someone has to do the work so it will be beautiful again.
It will never be a $100,000 boat, it may never see 100mph, but every time it fires up, I know I made it happen. The smiles and memories from our family outings can be attributed to the long hours I put in grinding,wrenching and cussing. This is definitely not a "wise" investment as I will never again see the money that I have put into this labor of love (or sickness). But I love it and someday it will all be done.
I was also asked "If I had enough money to buy a new boat, what would I buy?" My response... I wouldnt.. I would just buy all my parts at once and put it together instead of a little at a time.:D
Maybe when this project is done we will buy a bigger boat so the wife can have her damn cup holders and not bug me with "Is it almost done?":D Bless her heart for leaving me to my insanity!

[steelcomp]

Look at Steelcomps build up, that was one heckuva job he did and its sano as can be, there are PLENTY of guys out there that are up to the challenge.They may not all be on ***boat but they are out there.
Im doing every aspect of my deal, engine, pump, fabricated intake, every piece of aluminum on the boat, its alot of work but its nice to sit back and look at what you have accomplished.:)Thanks Chris...(sorry I missed this on the last post) I'm really looking forward to seeing your project when it's done. It's a ton of work, but there's nothing like the personal satisfaction you get as a reward. Knowing you, your deal is going to be sharp as can be.

[Moneypitt]

WTF.......If anyone can go buy it, tomorrow, I don't want it.......MY boat or MY custom boat, the PS 89 boat, my hydro, my jet, my son's jet, YOU can't go buy any thing like them....Period...............Regardless of the original set up/rigging, these boats are mine. Go spend the mega bucks for "somehing like everyone else has", or step the **** up, and be a ***boater........MP
PS: don't forget to bitch when you have to "fit" everything............

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Let me see. Hum hum. A brand new Yamaha jetboat or a hand built real new or completely redone jetboat? I'll take a hand built, labor of love, personal, one off piece everytime. Pride in our boat is what I love. Pat ps. Great post Pops

[Nucking futs]

I see im not alone here. I have been restoring my SWTD for about 3 years now. I have done ALL the work myself and with the help of my Dad,brother and freinds. Its a hobby that I enjoy. I can't wait to get it done. The only thing that really gets to me is when you get done with one aspect of it, you look at it and say, If I would have done this it would be that much better.
Oh well, it will never get done just looking at it, So Im going to go work on it Right now......:D

[fleetimus]

I am going on four months now redoing my Condor. It is a bare hull at present, hopefully it will get painted this weekend. The satisfaction of looking at the finished boat is worth the frustration. You can say, "I did that".
After the Condor, my 68 C-10 will get the treatment. Then the 64 Nova. I hope I live long enough to finish them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/fleetimus/Condor/HPIM0179.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/fleetimus/Truck2/Truck.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/fleetimus/HPIM0587.jpg

[moneysucker]

I see im not alone here. I have been restoring my SWTD for about 3 years now. I have done ALL the work myself and with the help of my Dad,brother and freinds. Its a hobby that I enjoy. I can't wait to get it done. The only thing that really gets to me is when you get done with one aspect of it, you look at it and say, If I would have done this it would be that much better.
Oh well, it will never get done just looking at it, So Im going to go work on it Right now......:D
And we all know where these restorations have landed you...Driving you to drink and smoke. it is a slippery slope!!
I am really glad to see younger kids getting into jet boats like I did around 19.My tahiti with an olds was the best boat ever. I remember saving for weeks for a starter and now it is not uncomon to come home from the lake and when asked how the day was you reply, "It was a good day for Summit." Knowing that the day at the lake may have cost a few grand.
There is a very big difference in kids (I find my self saying that a lot now and I am only 29) who buy their $2000-4000 jet boat and the ones on daddy's jet ski. The difference is pride of ownership and responsibility.
Cy

[Pops@Aggressor]

[QUOTE=zudnic;
sample pics borrowed from the Kazulin folks.....[/QUOTE]
Yes- One fine Hull- But where is the steering wheel

[zudnic]

Yes- One fine Hull- But where is the steering wheel
Not mine, its forsale by the builder. They where asking over $30K, so it would be better and possibly cheaper to find a used bare hull and build my own jet version.......... When I have more cash, orignal idea was buy a pretty abused late 70's Donzi X-18. Lost on ebay with that one.... New those Kavalks sold for $75K Canadian in 1987/8.... Forgot about that idea until this thread... :D

[roostwear]

And we all know where these restorations have landed you...Driving you to drink and smoke. it is a slippery slope!!
I am really glad to see younger kids getting into jet boats like I did around 19.My tahiti with an olds was the best boat ever. I remember saving for weeks for a starter and now it is not uncomon to come home from the lake and when asked how the day was you reply, "It was a good day for Summit." Knowing that the day at the lake may have cost a few grand.
There is a very big difference in kids (I find my self saying that a lot now and I am only 29) who buy their $2000-4000 jet boat and the ones on daddy's jet ski. The difference is pride of ownership and responsibility.
Cy
It's great you (and others) think that way. It'll take more than a few commercials of boaters waving at each other to keep this sport/hobby/obsession alive. 'Scuse me while I jump up on the soap box... :jawdrop: It's going to take someone (or a company/group) to step up and sponsor events targeted at families and their children to keep this going and build momemtum. I'm not talking about boating drunkfests and displays of who's the fastest/stupidest, but organized events with the sole purpose of promoting classic boating. It'll take more money/time/people than I (or any individual) can devote to it. It'll take a Rex Marine... an Eddies, maybe even Summit.... you know.. the ones who profit from this sport, to kick it in the ass. Workshops on how to replace a floor, beginning fiberglass 101, replacing a helm, etc. Look at your check book register and who you've bought parts for your boat from....THAT'S who needs to step up. I don't even like to call it stepping up... let's call it "paying forward".
I'll step down now....

[whiteworks]

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050222/050322_cubans_truck_hmed12p.hmedium.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFT0xQc8sTyasLX9Zl9ssl14HuzQgBeer can make any boat project work:D

[phegan]

I'm just finishing mine up.Building it from nothing but aluminum plate and flat bar has been a blast. I hope to build another (smaller) soon.the pump made a lot of noise so I had to pull the pump to replace the thrust bearing.(bearing distributors ,not 5 min from my house, has it in stock for 75$).
I do have a question to kick around, and i hope this thread will do.
What do you folks think of the intake mount .I was on my own on this ,so decided to keep it flush with the CVK ( keel). Then i went ahead and made a fairing ahead of the intake.(its about 2 ft long). I would love to know what you guys think.

[moneysucker]

It's great you (and others) think that way. It'll take more than a few commercials of boaters waving at each other to keep this sport/hobby/obsession alive. 'Scuse me while I jump up on the soap box... :jawdrop: It's going to take someone (or a company/group) to step up and sponsor events targeted at families and their children to keep this going and build momemtum. I'm not talking about boating drunkfests and displays of who's the fastest/stupidest, but organized events with the sole purpose of promoting classic boating. It'll take more money/time/people than I (or any individual) can devote to it. It'll take a Rex Marine... an Eddies, maybe even Summit.... you know.. the ones who profit from this sport, to kick it in the ass. Workshops on how to replace a floor, beginning fiberglass 101, replacing a helm, etc. Look at your check book register and who you've bought parts for your boat from....THAT'S who needs to step up. I don't even like to call it stepping up... let's call it "paying forward".
I'll step down now....
I think that a great way of promoting the sport is by doing it with your family. I never went to the river or desert with my parents but upon purchasing my first boat, my brothers soon followed. One went the pontoon boat direction early thinking that rubber ducky and I were nuts to want to go 100 in our boats. (This coming from someone who races street bikes) Rubber ducky upon making the turn toward fatherhood purchased a pontoon as well. I could not go that route and elected to go with an open bow jet. I promote jet boats by doing it and talking to others about it. My GF is involved and I have taught her to drive both the cruiser and M$ and she enjoys learning about how things work and what is where and why. Our 3 year old also is involved. She helps to wash the boat (Low spots for about 45 seconds till she is tired) and I let her mach tightening bolts and things with allen wrenches and box wrenches (not on M$ because I would die with her scratching that boat). Involving your children in what you love allows them to understand why you love your boat more than them. JK. But does let you do something as a family and in todays world every chance that you can do something as a family should be taken and will make a difference in the future.
I do like the ads though for boating and waterways. It is very friendly on the water. I have always waved at fellow boaters, kind of like motorcycle riders on the road. Have a great day. I have to get to work on one of the boats.
Cy

[moneysucker]

I'm just finishing mine up.Building it from nothing but aluminum plate and flat bar has been a blast. I hope to build another (smaller) soon.the pump made a lot of noise so I had to pull the pump to replace the thrust bearing.(bearing distributors ,not 5 min from my house, has it in stock for 75$).
I do have a question to kick around, and i hope this thread will do.
What do you folks think of the intake mount .I was on my own on this ,so decided to keep it flush with the CVK ( keel). Then i went ahead and made a fairing ahead of the intake.(its about 2 ft long). I would love to know what you guys think.
Looks good. How much does that weigh? What power are you using? can we see some pix from the side showing the whole boat? You definately took Pops post to the next level. He was not suggesting we build the hull. lol.

[b's sanger]

Awesome post. I have had mine for several years now. Learned alot during its restoration. Made some great friends too.

[phegan]

hi "MS", it's got a berk jc with ford 460( about 2 hrs runtime since a complete rebuild by an old timer who's engine shop is about a mile from the race track)
The hull weighs 1500#.

[Ralph Brunt]

well ive only been boating for about 2 years and have had 3 boats moters in and out of all of them built them myself:D the pumps out of 2 of them dont know how to build the pump yet, but i take'em out and install them. i will learn how to go through my wj when i get it out. i'm done payiing for that, unless i screw it up:sqeyes: . i didnt know squat about boats when i got my first, allways been a hot rodder and now hot boater:eek: i still dont know much but i read all the threads on this board and others just to learn how to do different stuff. beacause i dont know. i am enjoying boating, just wish i was on the water.
ralph

[Marty Gras]

"Pops" are you coming out with a new hull? Are you going to "stop talking and start doing?" I think it would be great for YOU to offer a new bare hull at a reasonable price. I think many of your fans would 'buy them up', at any price. I also think that most of the guys here buy used boats because the new ones are too expensive. They do rebuild and use the very best new parts in their repairs, but they are still way below what a new hull/boat costs. If you had the 18' Southwind molds today, what would a new hull sell for? Can that price compair with a used hull from E-bay? Over the past 30+ years I have tried to offer new hulls/boats at prices that rivaled rebuilt-used boats. It gets harder every day. Do you have a secret that you want to tell all of us?

[Jetboatguru]

"Pops" are you coming out with a new hull? Are you going to "stop talking and start doing?" I think it would be great for YOU to offer a new bare hull at a reasonable price. I think many of your fans would 'buy them up', at any price. I also think that most of the guys here buy used boats because the new ones are too expensive. They do rebuild and use the very best new parts in their repairs, but they are still way below what a new hull/boat costs. If you had the 18' Southwind molds today, what would a new hull sell for? Can that price compair with a used hull from E-bay? Over the past 30+ years I have tried to offer new hulls/boats at prices that rivaled rebuilt-used boats. It gets harder every day. Do you have a secret that you want to tell all of us?
Can you feel the love?;)

[old rigger]

"Pops" are you coming out with a new hull? Are you going to "stop talking and start doing?" I think it would be great for YOU to offer a new bare hull at a reasonable price. I think many of your fans would 'buy them up', at any price. I also think that most of the guys here buy used boats because the new ones are too expensive. They do rebuild and use the very best new parts in their repairs, but they are still way below what a new hull/boat costs. If you had the 18' Southwind molds today, what would a new hull sell for? Can that price compair with a used hull from E-bay? Over the past 30+ years I have tried to offer new hulls/boats at prices that rivaled rebuilt-used boats. It gets harder every day. Do you have a secret that you want to tell all of us?
Quality always sells.
You're talking about 2 different buyers anyway.
I've heard only through the grapevine what Pops is doing, sounds pretty cool to me if it's true.

[flat broke]

Here is the fundamental problem with this whole idea:
The people that can drop 10-15k cash for a new bare hull with tanks and maybe on a trailer are few and far between. Most folks need to finance that kind of expenditure, and poof, there goes your market for selling blanks to be built by the "average ***boater". I'm not hating on the idea, but believe me, there have been tons of people who have thought about this, and when you start to look at the economics of it, it's not justifiable as a dedicated line of business. Sure, ABC boat mfg could sell blanks as a sideline, but then they run the risk of their hulls being hacked by some backyard butcher and the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th owner down the line associating the build quality of that piece with the hull mfg. And we all know how quick bad news spreads from there.
Rich is right about quality always selling, but there has to be someone that has the money. Unfortunately, the guys that have the $$ usually don't have the time to invest in a project like we're talking about. To rig a boat by yourself with your buddies takes time and money. Crap, just the stainless hardware bill would probably bankrupt some folks monthly beer budgets.
Try and find an installment loan that will be secured by a blank hull... not gonna happen, so your funding sources are reduced to unsecured bank/credit union personal loans, or pulling money out of your home. In case anyone hasn't noticed, equity line rates have jumped significantly in the past 2 years, home values have stagnated, and underwriting guidelines have tightened considerably. All this equals less money available to fuel these projects. And believe me, even if you got bro-dealed by your parts suppliers for stuff you couldn't make, you're still going to be spending some decent $$.
I hate to be the joykiller here, but the ship sailed for this opportunity a while ago. Had someone actively marketed this idea and paired up with a couple of residential and unsecured lenders, they could have moved a lot of hulls starting late 2001 to the begining of 2006. If you could get an honest answer out of any of the west coast custom builders, I can bet they'd tell you they've seen a decrease in orders of between 25 and 40 percent. The river didn't dry up, boats suddenly didn't get less appealing or less fun, the money just isn't as easy or cheap as it was a couple years ago.
For this reason, I think the only sustainable market for this kind of effort will be in refurbing existing hulls. If you don't mind the effort and mess, you can repair and regel a salvageable older hull for a fraction of the cost of a new blank. It's a lot easier to come up with 2-3K cash than it is 10-15.
I'm all for the idea of resurecting these classics; that's why mine is upside down getting bottom work and gel. But myself and others have also looked long and hard into doing exactly what Pops is talking about, and when you start crunching numbers, you can't turn a buck. I don't mind working for free and losing money on my personal projects, but it's not a good practice if you're trying to run a business and keep food on the table ;)
Chris

[n8dawg]

Great post! It was nice to sit down and read from everyone's input with out the trash talking:) I had no idea what I was getting into when I bought my 1973 Miller. Just knew that they were built here locally and that they were a full stringered hull. Now with alot of research and with the help of fellow ***boaters I think if I were to purchase a new boat, I'd wnat a bare hull.
Thank you for the nice reading material.;)

[old rigger]

The people that can drop 10-15K in a bare hull are few and far between, that kind of boater has ALWAYS been the minority. The rough times we're entering now, been through that more than once in the boat biz, and I'll say it again, quality always sells. No matter how rough it is, someone always has the
money to build toys. I saw it time and time again after the shit hit the fan in the late 70's and most of the builders of the day went belly up. I landed at Rogers and we were always busy, building boats or bare hulls for racers.
There has never been a time when you couldn't buy a bare hull from any builder. They might push the point of insisting on setting the strut or the intake though. The risk of your hull being hacked up by some backyard builders is no different now than it was then. You think all the boats that were built as bare hulls and rigged as V-drives were nice? No way, lots of crude stuff done to them. I'd hazzard a guess that the work on average today is much, much nicer today by the backyard builder than 20, 30 years ago. Hell some of it is nicer than what's done at the factory.
By the time you re-do the wood in an old hull and re-gel, you're alot higher than a fraction of the cost of a new hull, unless you can do it all yourself. You're right though, it easier to do the work in stages for a few grand at a time building an old hull rather than to plop out 15 K for a nice new hull, but again, that's 2 totally different types of buyers.
It doesn't matter if sales are off by 25 to 40% (if they are, that's your number) you still have orders comming in and adjust accordingly.
You may have crunched the numbers and figured out you can't make a buck building new hulls, but that's you. To be honest you don't have the experence, desire yes, but you're totally dependent on others to do it for you. If I crunched the same numbers I guarantee you I'd (or others like the southwind boys for instance) would have much better numbers. We can build a mold, or lay up a part, or spray gel or any of the other things involved in getting a bare hull on a dolly.
Bottom line is it'll always be cheaper up front to buy an old hull and fix it up, there's too many of them out there. But there's always going to be a market new hulls too. And done correctly, a guy could make a buck and have fun doing it. Look at Scotton. Smartest guy in the boat biz IMHO, no shop, no employees, no overhead and guys dying to have one of his hulls.

[Marty Gras]

Yes, "quality will always sell", but how many per year? Can you live off of those sales only? Will you need to get a second job? I also disagree on the point of,"it's always cheaper to buy an old hull and fix it up", but in the long run most guys do put more money in an OLD BOAT, then it's not worth what a new one is worth when done. Yes a new hull is a large investment UP FRONT, but you (rebuilders) are so smart that you will take all of the 1968 driveline out of your old boat and "make the junk new again", in the new hull. If I'm "selling new boats and hulls", I not only need to make money on every sale, but I also need to be sure that the "bare hulls" get rigged correctly. Everyone sees the name on the hull side, not the riggers/owners name! It only takes one POS to wreck a good name! If I sold a hull to a guy who "made his boat run himself" and it was not done very well, who would suffer the most? I would, because his lack of "detail" in rigging the hull, would directly reflect upon my brand name. All of you boaters would see "MY BRAND NAME" being towed in every weekend! Never would you think that "it was just a bare hull!". Then there is the question of LIABILITY! I'm happy Scotten is making money, he does good work!

[BigDoug]

Here's a funny story.........we had a 74 Dimarco mini day cruiser that was our first boat and i towed with a 89 IROC Camaro (don't laugh) that's all i had at the time but i needed this boat so bad, we loved it !!
We made a trip out to Havasu on a big weekend and was waiting in line at windsor beach in front of the Magic/sleek dealer, while waiting all the guys came out of Magic and was reminissing (sp) of old days, checking over the boat and telling us stories of how the old days were with "little" boats running all around, it was quite cool of them to come out and bs a little.
We live here in Havasu now !!......with a 24 foot boat and my Miller jet boat, we find ourselves in the little boat much more often cause the ease of entry and the "cool" factor, no matter where you park you always get attention from all walks of life and the stories that come with it are way cool.
I got out of the hot rod scene to pusue this "boating" passion that you guys call it, now i tell people it's like having an old mustang or camaro sitting in the garage cause it's cool....................someday i will have a camaro or chevelle again but for now my little jet boat is my entertainment, hell atleast im not sitting in a bar chasing women and blowing my $$$ getting drunk !! my wife likes that part of it, she enjoys every moment together and she helps with every aspect of the boat as well. i think this post is getting too mushy for me now !!........................keep on boating. :D

[old rigger]

marty gras,
I disagree with you only about it takes one guy to ruin a good name. (well, I disagree with you about a few other things to, but who cares, lol) Stevens, Lavey, Rayson, Howard, Rogers, Sanger...the list in endless with great builders who sold bare hulls, and questionable work was done with them, and their reputation is still very good. Of course they knew their buyers very well. On the other hand I totally understand you not wanting to sell your boats as such for fear of something bad happening.
By the way, what boats have you been bullding for the last 30 years?
just curious. :)

[MAXIMUS]

I just got rid of a 25' daytona that was a beautiful boat... everyting a guy could ask for in a nice performing piece of equipment. Bought back our old family boat that my dad ordered in 1981. A 20.6 eliminator open bow day cruiser. Multishades of brown with the wood grain too. Installed my 496 & detailed the piss out of it. My family & I spent 3 days in bullhead this last weekend with friends. We decided to drive down to topock & then on down to the sand bar. With my gps total milage was 85. We ran around 25-30 mph & had a friggen ball. The dogs rode up in the bow with the wind blowing their ears back. And yes you could run your fingers through the water & cool yourself off. Pulled in to topock marina for a burger & parked in one of those little spots that all those dcb monsters couldn't fit in & enjoyed a nice lunch. It made boating really fun again, tubing, skiing & all the things I like doing... We watched tons of boats go flying by 100+ through the gorge & thought wow that looks really fun?:rolleyes:

[steve d]

I just got rid of a 25' daytona that was a beautiful boat... everyting a guy could ask for in a nice performing piece of equipment. Bought back our old family boat that my dad ordered in 1981. A 20.6 eliminator open bow day cruiser. Multishades of brown with the wood grain too. Installed my 496 & detailed the piss out of it. My family & I spent 3 days in bullhead this last weekend with friends. We decided to drive down to topock & then on down to the sand bar. With my gps total milage was 85. We ran around 25-30 mph & had a friggen ball. The dogs rode up in the bow with the wind blowing their ears back. And yes you could run your fingers through the water & cool yourself off. Pulled in to topock marina for a burger & parked in one of those little spots that all those dcb monsters couldn't fit in & enjoyed a nice lunch. It made boating really fun again, tubing, skiing & all the things I like doing... We watched tons of boats go flying by 100+ through the gorge & thought wow that looks really fun?:rolleyes:
Maxi.......know where that "RESET" button is? Let's go back to the 70's:)

[old rigger]

Maxi.......know where that "RESET" button is? Let's go back to the 70's:)
I'm for that, but I think Maxi was about 8 or so back then.

[Pops@Aggressor]

They were built with the blood sweat and beers of their owners who constantly keep them up and looking good.
Amen to the present day Jet Boater, keeping the esprit de corps alive in the jet boat way of life.
~BrianBlood running down the arm from the wrench that slipped:jawdrop:
Sweat just glistening on the arms from the hard labor:sqeyes:
Beer to cleanse the wound and re-align the the mind from the work that is ahead!:)
The Body -Mind & Spirit are alive and the King will overcome the task at hand so his EMPIRE shall know the freedom each shall find at the waters edge. Each Day to be a Day of "I Remember When"!
That Day the Kings Footprint shall last forever in the Sands of time and the Minds of those who enjoyed.

[old rigger]

Blood running down the arm from the wrench that slipped:jawdrop:
Sweat just glistening on the arms from the hard labor:sqeyes:
Beer to cleanse the wound and re-align the the mind from the work that is ahead!:)
The Body -Mind & Spirit are alive and the King will overcome the task at hand so his EMPIRE shall know the freedom each shall find at the waters edge. Each Day to be a Day of "I Remember When"!
That Day the Kings Footprint shall last forever in the Sands of time and the Minds of those who enjoyed.
And todays sermon was brought to by...Aggressor pumps.
Don't take your aggression out on your fellow man, take it out on the water.

[MAXIMUS]

I'm for that, but I think Maxi was about 8 or so back then.
:D :D :D

[zudnic]

marty gras,
I disagree with you only about it takes one guy to ruin a good name. (well, I disagree with you about a few other things to, but who cares, lol) Stevens, Lavey, Rayson, Howard, Rogers, Sanger...the list in endless with great builders who sold bare hulls, and questionable work was done with them, and their reputation is still very good. Of course they knew their buyers very well.
Agreed with your last couple of postings. Quality is an area that I myself will pay for. Without boat building experience I'll take a semi-educated guess at saying; quality, product, sales and support is the key in doing a good custom business like boats.
Replica car companies are very simular, most of those guy's offer several levels of completion. Building your own boat is a niche foresure, no reason one guy with the right combo could not do well at it.

[moneysucker]

I have a hunch that the southwind 18 molds are now with bamco boats and you can visit their website to see their pricing. I do know that there can be some serious hack job rigging and I can assure you mardigras that had I taken all my 1976 "Junk drive line" out of Money$ucker and installed it into a new hull there would be no problem with the rigging or anyone feeling that their hull had been defiled.
You are right that once an older hull has been gone through and made new again more is spent than it can be sold for. I know that from experience. There is a certain pleasure to be had from the "no way! that is older than you are!!??" Of course I learned a tremendous amount building my boats myself and everyone gets better and cleaner. I wish I could get a new hull now but I am buying a house instead so I will have to make due re-doing a daytona instead.

[old rigger]

I have a hunch that the southwind 18 molds are now with bamco boats and you can visit their website to see their pricing.
Be curious to see for sure just who has which molds from 'southwind'. Maybe Nucking futs or his brother or dad would know for sure, but these are still on craigslist for 1000 bucks, pretty cheap when you think about it. T deck to boot. :)
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/boa/341940064.html
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/flyin-t/sw1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/flyin-t/sw2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/flyin-t/sw3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/flyin-t/sw4.jpg

[old rigger]

marty gras...
By the way, what boats have you been bullding for the last 30 years?
just curious. :)
Just dawned on me who marty gras is and what he builds. He does have a fine reputation to protect and his work is far better than anything I ever did.
But I still feel the same about finding or tooling up a great set of molds and offering them in todays market. :)

[cyclone]

Rich,
it would please me greatly to read a post of about you locating Rogers molds and building them again..i'd be first in line for a 19TR. :)
if anyone could make it work i think it would be you.

[zudnic]

Today's market, we are about to repeat the seventies at in the best scenerio!

[JR131]

HB from R&D knows where the rogers molds are give him a call he will give you all the info (714)993-2664
jr

[old rigger]

Funny you mentioned that hull Cyclone, if I was to do something on my own, that would be one of the 2 or 3 molds I'd have to have. God damned beautiful boat. With a cap job, could be the all time best looking boat ever with all those curves. I was talking to Roger about a month ago and of course the conversation turned to the molds, the most cared for molds on the planet when they were his, imho. I was surprised to learn a 19tr has been splashed and new set of molds made by someone who's building hulls south of the border. But, it won't be the same. It can't be the same, 'cause Roger isn't building them. ;)

[zudnic]

The days of low interest are gone for the next few years. Like houses at higher rates, un-like today people will therefore finance alot smaller amounts. Instead of $90K and above, $50K and below will become more common. Produce a quality, good performance, decent turnkey like the molds above, believe they would sell ok well if you keep it below $50K. I would also offer a kit with all the parts to rig a bare haul and also just a bare hull options, believe that as well would sell well. The target customer, baby boomers who have a good pension.
My Uncle is a baby boomer, set to retire in two years with a full pension, my aunt is also joining him with full deal as well. Retired they will pull in almost $100K per year. He restores classic chev's, hot rods, etc. A gear head with income and nothing to do. Even with a 70's like economy millions of guys just like him are entering retirement with good pensions. His pension is gov based BC Ferries, public servant. Others like him, lots of Cops as well, with good pensions set to retire. Those are the guys that where driving the higher end custom boats because one it was easy to get financing and they could afford to make payments on a $100K boat when it was 1.9%....
something like this: http://www.bamcojetboats.com/redo8.JPG

[Marty Gras]

How much is that Bamco boat selling for? Without the little blower, just a new turn key boat! What are the specs?

[zudnic]

How much is that Bamco boat selling for? Without the little blower, just a new turn key boat! What are the specs?
http://www.bamcojetboats.com/the_showroom.htm They list it someplace on their site for $41,900.

[Pops@Aggressor]

I think that a great way of promoting the sport is by doing it with your family. I never went to the river or desert with my parents but upon purchasing my first boat, my brothers soon followed. One went the pontoon boat direction early thinking that rubber ducky and I were nuts to want to go 100 in our boats. (This coming from someone who races street bikes) Rubber ducky upon making the turn toward fatherhood purchased a pontoon as well. I could not go that route and elected to go with an open bow jet. I promote jet boats by doing it and talking to others about it. My GF is involved and I have taught her to drive both the cruiser and M$ and she enjoys learning about how things work and what is where and why. Our 3 year old also is involved. She helps to wash the boat (Low spots for about 45 seconds till she is tired) and I let her mach tightening bolts and things with allen wrenches and box wrenches (not on M$ because I would die with her scratching that boat). Involving your children in what you love allows them to understand why you love your boat more than them. JK. But does let you do something as a family and in todays world every chance that you can do something as a family should be taken and will make a difference in the future.
I do like the ads though for boating and waterways. It is very friendly on the water. I have always waved at fellow boaters, kind of like motorcycle riders on the road. Have a great day. I have to get to work on one of the boats.
Cy I love this one! With over 50 Years @ Lake Mojave in spring and summer and the same in the desert on motors for winter. God did Bless me with a 21 Year Old Grandson 18 & 13 Year old Granddaughters a 5 Year Old G/Son who is going to be Spiderman the Dirt Bicker, and a 2 year old G/Daughter River/Desert Rat in training. If you call they will be packed before you can find your keys.
I have Stayed & Partyed with the the likes of John DeLorean, Malcom Brickland, Members of the Moody Blues, and other's, Yet any day of the week I find "No High" like the fulfillment on a Beach Cove or a Desert Fire Pit with my Family and Friends. No Dog Bone to Bury just Love, Hugs and Laughs. That is why -with all my heart if I can assist the next generation find that Boat that takes them to the same cove or allow them to cruise down to Owl's Eye to swim in the shadows of the cliffs, Out of the suns rays, let the kids watch the jumpers and even your own grow up gradually -untill that day you see them standing in the Eye itself ready to jump. It is why we do work hard and is a gift from above. Its our job to teach and turn over. There is a selfish side to this also-Now my Grandkids Drive while I Kick Back and Listen to there Rap & Music and think Im still Young also!

[zudnic]

I love this one!!
You almost made me cry! Very good and true posting. My Dad has decided not only does he like my boat, thinks jets are the only way to go! I'm re-scheduling my trip to Redding and discovered the Laid Back Boater peeps are going to Shasta, re-planned around that. Hoping lots of wide variety of jets show up, need to find something for him. So I can drive mine, every time we gone out together, he takes over...........

[blue wonder]

I have a hunch that the southwind 18 molds are now with bamco boats and you can visit their website to see their pricing.
yeah but who the hell would want a southwind????

[Pops@Aggressor]

Yesterday- A Old Friend called and has new molds on Earl Smith and others you might like to check out. He quit boats and did old bodies 34s etc. and just started back on these. Jim Hill is running one in Texas and building a new one now. FYI
www.bigdaddyspeed.com

[cyclone]

am i the only one wondering how you'd mount seats or a gas pedal to these stringers? found this at big daddy's website.

[Goad]

am i the only one wondering how you'd mount seats or a gas pedal to these stringers? found this at big daddy's website.
interesting, i didnt even catch that...
i do like the low-profile-ness of those boats. Very nice lookin.

[Nucking futs]

yeah but who the hell would want a southwind????
No respect !!! Thanks to southwind's R&D back in the day is why you have a nice fast tunnel. Learn your roots Junior. :D

[mirrorimage]

what im woundering is why cant you get a price on a bare hull ... with 3 colors thats all .... im not looking for the hook up price but i dont wanna get it broke off im me either .... :D

[Marty Gras]

$41900? I was honestly thinking around $31K or $32K!!! And just for the record, "the TUNNEL DRAGSTER was not the first tunnel jet hull"! (Horizon, and a jet hydro that I can't think of the name of) So get your ROOTS STRAIGHT! The Southwind tunnel dragster hull had no rocker, so it was not very fast "out of the box!" Many of the people who raced them, made the needed modifications and then the boat ran fast. PS that "Smiley Boat" that's in your avitar has center strakes that are longer than the Southwind 20' hull it was splashed off of!

[zudnic]

$41900? I was honestly thinking around $31K or $32K!!
The other two are less money. this: http://www.bamcojetboats.com/boats%20002.jpg $29,900 with Gen VI 454 w 425hp. Not bad for a newer turnkey.

[Nucking futs]

$41900? I was honestly thinking around $31K or $32K!!! And just for the record, "the TUNNEL DRAGSTER was not the first tunnel jet hull"! (Horizon, and a jet hydro that I can't think of the name of) So get your ROOTS STRAIGHT! The Southwind tunnel dragster hull had no rocker, so it was not very fast "out of the box!" Many of the people who raced them, made the needed modifications and then the boat ran fast. PS that "Smiley Boat" that's in your avitar has center strakes that are longer than the Southwind 20' hull it was splashed off of!
OH yeah, I forgot you know everything, My bad.I will step aside and let you school everyone. Oh, and what year was that first tunnel made?
anyways, I was refering to the help my grandfather gave leach @ Eliminator to get his tunnel (cat) program going, you must know about that right, like the money that was loaned so they could get the daytonas going?
Naww, you wouldnt have any Idea about that.
I know about all the mods that are needed for the TD, we ran alot of them and my Dad did alot of the bottom work on them back in the day, But im sure theres more that Im unaware of becuase im just riding coatails here.
We have had this conversation about the 20's already,
Have a good day MG

[billet racing 1]

I bought my bare hull from Eliminator in 98. Understand they will not sell one now. Buddy of mine tried recentrly. Seems they can make a whole lot more on a complete boat. Can you fault them for this? They are trying to make a profit, not just be good guys in the market. And the price of used hulls on the market is so cheap. Some times I'm suprised at the low prices, knowing what a new one costs. the problem with used stuff is you have to buy the crap with it. If you could strip her and sell off the set up, put that money into your own, could make it more desireable.
Jerry

[wsuwrhr]

I bought my bare hull from Eliminator in 98. Understand they will not sell one now. Buddy of mine tried recentrly. Seems they can make a whole lot more on a complete boat. Can you fault them for this? They are trying to make a profit, not just be good guys in the market. And the price of used hulls on the market is so cheap. Some times I'm suprised at the low prices, knowing what a new one costs. the problem with used stuff is you have to buy the crap with it. If you could strip her and sell off the set up, put that money into your own, could make it more desireable.
Jerry
Personally I think this is the biggest reason.
Laying up a boat is only a small cost compared to the big picture costs of building a complete boat. Very labor intensive.
I have never believed the real reason the builder is worried the owner will "hack up" the rigging job.
Brian

[zudnic]

I have never believed the real reason the builder is worried the owner will "hack up" the rigging job.
I did the car dealer thing for a couple of years. Started dabling in kit cars and I'm also into planes, EAA Oshkosh try yearly to go. Almost if not of the homebuilt planes and cars I've seen are as good or better over pro builds...
One of the area most manufacture's have is they are not sales and marketing people. Heck some of the boat dealers are not good at this area either. If I did'nt have my current project, would consider getting into boats as a dealer..... :idea:

[Marty Gras]

I never said I "knew everything", you did! So if I really needed to know "how the Daytonas got started" I'd go to Bob Leach or Rod Ehide (sp?). Brian, the tooling (plugs, molds, etc) cost a lot of money and those costs must be recovered. The glass materials and labor along with EPA, and fire safety laws do make "hull layup" a costly job. I also must stick with my statement about "hacked up rigging". I sold a few 'bare hulls' and was never happy about the results. I would give written instructions as to hardware and placement, but the bare hull builders always knew better. If I told the guy, "this delta pad bottom needs a standard or flat Berkeley 4 degree intake", the guy would call me the next day and tell me he "got a great deal on a Panther". The problems never ended with those "bare hull sales". They wouldn't listen to me and they never followed the USCG rules. TOO much wasted time, TOO little money made, and a sad boat for a result. Also, many other problems that I haven't mentioned.

[wsuwrhr]

I completely understand the raw material costs. I do.
I never said it was cheap, but a dollar figure could be attached to a bare hull and sold for a profit, just the same as a complete boat right?
Brian
I never said I "knew everything", you did! So if I really needed to know "how the Daytonas got started" I'd go to Bob Leach or Rod Ehide (sp?). Brian, the tooling (plugs, molds, etc) cost a lot of money and those costs must be recovered. The glass materials and labor along with EPA, and fire safety laws do make "hull layup" a costly job. I also must stick with my statement about "hacked up rigging". I sold a few 'bare hulls' and was never happy about the results. I would give written instructions as to hardware and placement, but the bare hull builders always knew better. If I told the guy, "this delta pad bottom needs a standard or flat Berkeley 4 degree intake", the guy would call me the next day and tell me he "got a great deal on a Panther". The problems never ended with those "bare hull sales". They wouldn't listen to me and they never followed the USCG rules. TOO much wasted time, TOO little money made, and a sad boat for a result. Also, many other problems that I haven't mentioned.

[old rigger]

[QUOTE=Marty Gras;2612538]...If I told the guy, "this delta pad bottom needs a standard or flat Berkeley 4 degree intake", the guy would call me the next day and tell me he "got a great deal on a Panther"...[QUOTE]
lol, now that's funny

[dmontzsta]

I just got rid of a 25' daytona that was a beautiful boat... everyting a guy could ask for in a nice performing piece of equipment. Bought back our old family boat that my dad ordered in 1981. A 20.6 eliminator open bow day cruiser. Multishades of brown with the wood grain too. Installed my 496 & detailed the piss out of it. My family & I spent 3 days in bullhead this last weekend with friends. We decided to drive down to topock & then on down to the sand bar. With my gps total milage was 85. We ran around 25-30 mph & had a friggen ball. The dogs rode up in the bow with the wind blowing their ears back. And yes you could run your fingers through the water & cool yourself off. Pulled in to topock marina for a burger & parked in one of those little spots that all those dcb monsters couldn't fit in & enjoyed a nice lunch. It made boating really fun again, tubing, skiing & all the things I like doing... We watched tons of boats go flying by 100+ through the gorge & thought wow that looks really fun?:rolleyes:
Well said my Goliath sized friend. :) I enjoy cruising under 40mph in my Pops 78 Eliminator cruiser, old school...tubing and all that fun stuff. That is how memories are formed.

[Marty Gras]

[QUOTE=wsuwrhr;2612651]I completely understand the raw material costs. I do.
I never said it was cheap, but a dollar figure could be attached to a bare hull and sold for a profit, just the same as a complete boat right?
Brian
Brian, the glass work is a major part of the expense. Those Bamco boats don't have motor rails and custom rigging. They may have "Eddie Marine" stuff, off of the shelf, and the "Eddie" stuff is as good as you will find anywhere for "production parts". But Bamco isn't doing "custom rigging" for $30K! They have a guy "drilling holes and installing powder coated parts"! Yes, a dollar figure can be put to a bare hull! That's how this entire thread got started, why not new hulls being home built? IF you could buy a new bare Southwind, Daytona, Sanger, Rodgers,... the new hull would cost more than a complete turn key used boat. Most "home rebuilders/ racers, don't think about 'resale' or 'actual insurable value' when they rebuild an older boat. They just want to get the project going for the least amount of money. The other problem I don't like is when a guy buys a NEW HULL and puts all of his old hardware in it. He makes little effort to make the old stuff actually fit and operate well, he just wants to "get it cheap and get it wet". Selling bare hulls has been (for me) too much trouble. Why not ask Bamco if they will sell a new bare hull?

[Josh-TSG]

Just found this thread...what a great read....
I don't own a boat....yet....
But the plan is to find an older jet boat to fix up over the next year or so.....with the help of this place....:D
I PREFER building my own stuff.....always have, whether it's bikes, cars, engines, paint, etc...partly because I can't afford to buy/pay up front, but mostly out of the enjoyment and satisfaction of doing it yourself...
Reading the responses here is refreshing........:)