V-Drives in 27-30 Ft. Offshore Performance Boat?

[Michael2000]

I'm not a fan of I/Os. I/Os perform well enough, but are fragile, and expensive to replace and repair. Also if you want big horsepower (anything over 600 horsepower), you get into huge dollars ($45,000 for a single Mercury #6 drive). Surface drives are also expensive, and the props are over $3000 each. V-drives have a reputation for strengh and reliability. I've known people with V-drives, and, I don't recall them ever having a failure. I wish I could say the same for people I know with I/Os. So I was wondering, can V-drives be used in place of I/Os on a offshore performance boat in the 27-30 ft. range, either single or twins?
Michael

[Beer-30]

That big, one would probably want twins to help overcome the drag of rudder, strut baces, and shafts.
Plus, you could somewhat turn when backing, as opposed to a single V-drive.

[Racey]

The only problem doing it with twins is you would want to have counter rotating propulsion, meaning you would either have to have one v-drive with idler gears, (or) build one engine as counter rotating, either of which are gonna cost ya, and cause you some headaches.
Edit: Does anyone here have pictures of that (i think it was a 21 spectra) from back in the late 70's that had dual props/shafts and was v-driven??? there is a picture of it up here in boulder at the Coffee Cup diner.

[Riverkid]

The only problem doing it with twins is you would want to have counter rotating propulsion, meaning you would either have to have one v-drive with idler gears, (or) build one engine as counter rotating, either of which are gonna cost ya, and cause you some headaches.
Edit: Does anyone here have pictures of that (i think it was a 21 spectra) from back in the late 70's that had dual props/shafts and was v-driven??? there is a picture of it up here in boulder at the Coffee Cup diner.
I saw that photo. I bought my Schiada from Boulder...:D

[grayson]

Quote;
Edit: Does anyone here have pictures of that (i think it was a 21 spectra) from back in the late 70's that had dual props/shafts and was v-driven??? there is a picture of it up here in boulder at the Coffee Cup diner.[/QUOTE]
were you thinking of this one from hotrod magazine?
http://www.v-driveboat.com/showthread.php?threadid=3267

[jh4rt]

First of all: I love V-drives; love how they drive/steer/ride. I love the smell of 'em.
But, one of the issues with a v-drive is: the propeller is at an angle. This is especially true in a V-Bottom. So, V-drive boats have a tendency to lift the stern and push the bow in. On a longer v-drive boat, this is exacerbated by leverage. It would take a lot of horsepower and engineering to overcome a lot of these limitations.
For example: 24' Spectra v-drive; 1400 hp (twin turbo bbc) back in the day ('79) ; running av-gas; tuned everything -- went 80MPH ONCE at sea level, and then melted the pistons.
It didn't break the v-drive, though. ;-)

[Riverkid]

For example: 24' Spectra v-drive; 1400 hp (twin turbo bbc) back in the day ('79) ; running av-gas; tuned everything -- went 80MPH ONCE at sea level, and then melted the pistons.
It didn't break the v-drive, though. ;-)
My neighbor around 1984 or so had four race boats. He had a sweet 19' Spectra that Teague rigged V drive with a huge turbo motor in it. He also had a 30' or so Scarab hull he raced in Modified with Small blocks staggered and Surface Power drives. He was constantly working on the Scarab. The Spectra just add race gas and go.
I asked him about building the big boat with V drives and he said the same thing. Too much stern lift would push the bow down... We made Catalina one morning on the big boat in about 18 min from Long Beach. Wow.

[Racey]

Quote;
Edit: Does anyone here have pictures of that (i think it was a 21 spectra) from back in the late 70's that had dual props/shafts and was v-driven??? there is a picture of it up here in boulder at the Coffee Cup diner.
were you thinking of this one from hotrod magazine?
http://www.v-driveboat.com/showthread.php?threadid=3267[/QUOTE]
No i don't think that was it, i may be wrong but i'm pretty sure it had more of a V than that, that thing looks just about flat from the transom photo.

[bocco]

Just thinking out loud.
Could you run one motor off of the dampner and one off of the flywheel to achive counter rotation.
With a longer boat it might be easier to put the V-drive very far forward to get the prop forward enough to reduce the stern lift and still keep a fairly low strut angle.

[Morg]

Was watching an offshore race a few years ago & noticed a couple of the big cats had exposed prop. shafts coming out the back with struts (2ea.). Had a huge rudder in the center & tabs.
And yes just run one off the ballancer.

[Sangster]

Those are "Arneson Surface Drives"....BIG BUCK STUFF..:D :D :D

[Morg]

Nope. Arnesons have the vertical (trim) & horizontal (steering) cylinders. & the cylinderical mount.
These were locked into a non moving strut. You could see the stainless prop. shafts under the boat.
The Arneson's also have the gear box which raises the output shaft to line up with the crank of the motor.

[RiverDave]

First of all: I love V-drives; love how they drive/steer/ride. I love the smell of 'em.
But, one of the issues with a v-drive is: the propeller is at an angle. This is especially true in a V-Bottom. So, V-drive boats have a tendency to lift the stern and push the bow in. On a longer v-drive boat, this is exacerbated by leverage. It would take a lot of horsepower and engineering to overcome a lot of these limitations.
For example: 24' Spectra v-drive; 1400 hp (twin turbo bbc) back in the day ('79) ; running av-gas; tuned everything -- went 80MPH ONCE at sea level, and then melted the pistons.
It didn't break the v-drive, though. ;-)
There's a few 24 Spectra's that run alot better then that. Parnelli's old boat ran in the 90's with a 1000 HP if memory serves correctly.
RD

[Tom Brown]

One thing you don't want to do is run twin outboards on a 27-30' boat. The performance, fuel economy, and reliability would really suck.

[MKEELINE]

There's a few 24 Spectra's that run alot better then that. Parnelli's old boat ran in the 90's with a 1000 HP if memory serves correctly.
RD
I've seen a 24 Spectra running 2 BBC with v drives. I think it used to run pretty good.

[NWSDan]

what kind of drives are on the "bat boat" in the latest Hot Boat mag? they look like what Morg was talkin'bout.

[jh4rt]

There's a few 24 Spectra's that run alot better then that. Parnelli's old boat ran in the 90's with a 1000 HP if memory serves correctly.
RD
HEHE... He says. Dood, Parnelli told my dad's partner one time (who had the same engine as we had in the spectra, only with a 18' Sanger) that he went over 100 in the 24.
Later 70's Spectras were layed up lighter; ours weighed 9000# on the trailer. Some of the 79's with an outdrive and 1000 hp might have gone into the 90's.
We went the other way on the next spectra, bought a bare hull from Sanger Jack and rigged it with twin 200hp merc's on brackets. That boat goes 70 all the time and rarely breaks.

[jh4rt]

One thing you don't want to do is run twin outboards on a 27-30' boat. The performance, fuel economy, and reliability would really suck.
Yeah! That would suck! Plus, you wouldn't be able to lift the engine hatches and have anything to work on. :devil:
http://www.spectramarine.com/ownersboats/5a.jpg

[Michael2000]

what kind of drives are on the "bat boat" in the latest Hot Boat mag? they look like what Morg was talkin'bout.
The Bat Boat (Vector) I believe just has a standard outdrive. The DCB F26 in that issue on the other hand has a Mercury #6 surface drive, which in many respects looks like an standard outdrive, but isn't.
Michael

[Warp Factor]

Don't see why twins would necessarily need to be counter rotating.
The V-drives, propshafts and props could be offset to the right side of the boat to correct thrust, torque and lift. The right amount should allow the boat to run with a completely straight rudder.

[RiverDave]

I know Campbell built a few I believe 30's (don't quote me on that) with twin V-Drives in them. I saw a green one once for sale in somebodies showroom. I think it had twin 454's in it?
RD

[Racey]

Non counter rotating would be fine for a cruiser, but if you wanted to get any performance out of it 75-80+mph i think it would cause alot of prop torque making the boat want to lean hard, and it would track dramatically under accel/decelleration.
Driving off the dampner on one would be fine if you are just running in/outs on the prop shafts, but you can't run a transmission off the dampner so bye-bye reverse or easy manuevering in the harbor. the only way to get around this would be to run a short drive shaft to the trans, then another short drive shaft to the v-drive, or mount the velvet drives right up against v-drives somehow. It would cost a fortune in time and fabrication compared to i/o's

[Morg]

Good point Racey,
Counter rotating motors would be the way to go.
Wish I could find a pic. of what I was talking about. It was a father & son team. Just can't remember the sponsor. Seamed the boat was yellow with some white.

[CampbellCarl]

RiverDave
I just picked up a 28' Campbell Cruiser with twin 454's, Velvets and Casales. Don't know yet how she's gonna run, these things are ungodly heavy. Dry weight on the rigged boat is 9200 lbs. They have a 10' beam (supposed to get a Caltrans permit to move). Campbell made 28's and a few 32's and I think 2 40's all BBC and v-driven. I really want to get this thing in the water and see what speeds a 9200 lb cruiser can make. The original owner sez they used to water ski behind this thing at Havasu. More later!
CC

[Warp Factor]

Non counter rotating would be fine for a cruiser, but if you wanted to get any performance out of it 75-80+mph i think it would cause alot of prop torque making the boat want to lean hard, and it would track dramatically under accel/decelleration.
That's the whole point of offsetting the propshafts. Put them to one side so the lift they generate counteracts the roll, and so the thrust they generate offsets the tendency to turn under accel/decel.
For example, if the boat turns right under accel, moving the thrust to the right would tend to make it go straight.

[HowardFlat]

were you thinking of this one from hotrod magazine?
http://www.v-driveboat.com/showthread.php?threadid=3267
No i don't think that was it, i may be wrong but i'm pretty sure it had more of a V than that, that thing looks just about flat from the transom photo.[/QUOTE]
Doesnt the picture at the coffee cup show the boat with two steering wheels?

[Morg]

Nope. Arnesons have the vertical (trim) & horizontal (steering) cylinders. & the cylinderical mount.
These were locked into a non moving strut. You could see the stainless prop. shafts under the boat.
The Arneson's also have the gear box which raises the output shaft to line up with the crank of the motor.
Ha Ha!!
This is what I was talking about:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Havasu_47_.JPG
So, looks like they may be adjustable for trim, I am guessing the steering is from the upside down sail:rolleyes:
Wheather they are running a v-drive or a arneson type gear box is not known.

[SPECTRABRENT]

Quote;
Edit: Does anyone here have pictures of that (i think it was a 21 spectra) from back in the late 70's that had dual props/shafts and was v-driven??? there is a picture of it up here in boulder at the Coffee Cup diner.
That is a Spectra 24 with a wood deck ( XS low deck) early 70's.
I have that picture on the Spectra web site. Ed Delong told me
that was Rick Fowler & Bud Bailey were driving it. That is Gil Gilberts Spectra 24 (Spectra Marine Special #87). Gil also owned/raced the yellow Spectra 20 (#87) that did very well in the early 70's, its the boat on the back of the Spectra Marine T-Shirt.
Brent

[promodbike2]

What about this boat?

[promodbike2]

Now i have pics:)

[promodbike2]

Sorry learning how to put pics on here. Could someone put the pics straight on the page?

[Boatlesss]

Nope. Arnesons have the vertical (trim) & horizontal (steering) cylinders. & the cylinderical mount.
These were locked into a non moving strut. You could see the stainless prop. shafts under the boat.
The Arneson's also have the gear box which raises the output shaft to line up with the crank of the motor.
You can mount an Arneson whereby it steers and trims or just trims up/down and a rudder steers the boat.
Arneson's come in two versions, drop box which you are referring to and an in line version.

[Firecracker]

Here ya go promodbike2:
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34120&d=1183256087
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34123&d=1183256407

[promodbike2]

25' Eliminator What do you guys think of this boat? Thanks for the pic help.

[Marty Gras]

"Jim" if your 24' lifted the tail so much, why didn't you bring it to me and have it fixed? You know I worked on Greg's boat. In a 25' to 32' V bottom with twins, I'd use Casale bellhousing mounted "FNR crash boxes", and direct split case (3/4" plates) HD gear boxes. I don't think you would need multi-speed transmissions to go 110/125 MPH with twins. With this kind of set up, you can test any props on either side, without fear of "a weak point" in your drivelines. I'm working on building cats with V-drives. (25' to 32')

[BADBLOWN572]

Ha Ha!!
This is what I was talking about:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Havasu_47_.JPG
Wheather they are running a v-drive or a arneson type gear box is not known.
Those look like BPM Surface drives. They are fixed for steering, but can move to trim the boat. The steering is controlled by the full hydraulic rudder on the back. They are some serious $$$ to setup and require external transmissions. The benefit to them is that they really don't break. :)