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View Full Version : Anyone with transmissions on their V drives..??



grimreaper
04-11-2002, 05:58 PM
JUST looking into the possibility of doing something in this area and THUS getting a reverse gear and neutral.......your thoughts?

burtandnancy
04-11-2002, 06:17 PM
Do it all the time in our ski-race boats; turbo 400, modified for boats, three speed forward, (sometimes we lock out first as its un-needed), neutral, reverse and PARK. Park helps during prop changes, warming up boat without creeping forward. Will easily take 1000 hp w/no problems. Have had them last for full seasons of circle and marathon races. Have been standard in Schiada for over 20 years. They make a great package for play boating as well...

grimreaper
04-11-2002, 07:02 PM
what type of ratio in the V ?

Costello
04-11-2002, 08:37 PM
I have a TH 400 and first and park are locked out. With only 1:15 gears in the box, second is basically a no wake gear, leavinf third only as a running gear. I'm going to try going to 1:29 gears and bring first gear back into the picture as a no wake zone gear so that second is more usable. Whaddaya think Burt? BTW its spinning a 12x 14 three blade.

blownschiada
04-11-2002, 10:31 PM
I an running a turbo 400 also with a 1:38 gear ratio.Its alot of fun shifting from second to drive when you have alot of HP!

69 Elim
04-12-2002, 06:48 AM
I got a 2 flatbottoms, both with powerglides. 1st gear = no wake; 2nd gear is for driving. love the fact of throwing it into neutral and reverse. Much better than the old direct drive in/out boxes. the trans have manual bodies in them and no torque converter. In fact I just had one rebuilt and picked it up 2 days ago.

burtandnancy
04-12-2002, 07:36 AM
Grim,
We ran everything from 38 to 50% overdrive, and from 11.5 x 15 to 12 x 16 props. In those days I had nothing but turboes so we had lots of top end horsepower. Three blades were so much smoother we really proferred them. As you know now, we've pretty well switched over to dry sumped 6's, but I still love the V-drives. Gary Teagues EFI turboed, 500 inchers (actually 496) will give you 1550 HP all day long for a full season. Whats really neat, turbo'ed motors are so QUIET...

schiada96
04-12-2002, 10:38 AM
Turbo 400 or powerglide is the way to go. Do it. You will love your boat for it.

burtandnancy
04-12-2002, 10:44 AM
96,You're right. The powerglide is also shorter if space is a problem, but not sure it will take the BIG horsepower of todays motors.

grimreaper
04-12-2002, 10:59 AM
being a newbie to all of this - what are the distance "issues" to the V drive from the engine? I do you a couple of shortie TF kits to make it all wurk.
How about a trans cooler?......air or water?

69 Elim
04-12-2002, 11:41 AM
B&N - I've gotta "built" powerglide backed up to an 800hp motor. Also gotta stock powerglide backed up to a 450hp mouse. I will admit that these numbers are no where near your 1500hp. I am not sure how much more hp a powerglide can take. nice thing about the powerglide is that they are small. Especially since I have flatbottoms. as for cooling, both are have trans coolers mounted on the stringers near the bottom of the boat. some water splashed by them helps cool, but the trannys don't get very warm cause no torque converter. hope this helps.

schiada96
04-12-2002, 12:09 PM
Burt what are you running now I wish I had 1500 hp, I might be making 950. I dream about building a contemporary efi turbo motor. Buisness is getting better I might start one next winter. I first have to pay off Lee, I still owe him money on my hull.
[This message has been edited by schiada96 (edited April 12, 2002).]

burtandnancy
04-12-2002, 01:27 PM
96,
I quit racing a few years ago, but stay active in various boats. I do some work with Fred Inman, Nick Barron and Gary Teague. I was hopeing someone local would step up to the tease of pulling a skier thru the kilo's at LOTO. Maybe in the future.
When you get ready for 1500+ hp for that Schiada, contact me and I'll put you in touch with Gary Teague. I wouldn't recommend it unless you decide to go ski racing or maybe GN racing.

Thunderbutt
04-12-2002, 04:24 PM
It is the best thing for v-drive boats. I've had my in since 1976. I told my buddies to go to every recking yard in Ca. and buy up the 400 tranys. In high gear there is no wake. I use to have people screaming at me to slow down while going through a Marine. They take lots of HP. I run it through the same cooler as the v-drive Originally posted by grimreaper:
JUST looking into the possibility of doing something in this area and THUS getting a reverse gear and neutral.......your thoughts?

Hostile
04-12-2002, 05:09 PM
Have one in my 20SS Cole great,reverse and
2nd for around no wake zones with a neat shift to 3rd but you all have missed the
best,no need for anchor just pull up and
put it in park!!LoL
Skeeter

63stevens
04-12-2002, 05:56 PM
Have turbo400 in my 63 stevens. Really works great. Normally only use 3rd and neutral.
I use a heat exchanger and use the water coming from the v-drive before it goes overboard
[This message has been edited by 63stevens (edited April 13, 2002).]

VD CRUISER
04-12-2002, 06:14 PM
Have turbo 400 in my blown 547, 21' howard with 48% in the V-drive. Works great but 2nd gear is only good for idling. Have heard some say it's good to take off with, but it just buzzes the motor.

VD CRUISER
04-12-2002, 06:22 PM
Burtandnancy,
Why have all of the ski racers gone to the # 6 drive? And how much HP will one of those turbo motors make on pump gas, also how fast are the better running ski racers ?

StealBlueZ
04-12-2002, 06:26 PM
Has anyone heard of a powerglide in a lake hydro? I figure I'll be making about 700 horses and will rarely see top speed. I'd sure like to have a tranny to keep it slow in the no wake and marina areas. Reverse would be nice, too.....thoughts anyone?

Costello
04-12-2002, 09:54 PM
Yhe only thought that comes to mind with a Hydro in reverse is "SWAMPED". It's hard enough to keep water out of them when you are anchored and some idiot comes by in a jet ski, or water is a little rough, or your own wake chases you after shutting down.

burtandnancy
04-13-2002, 07:04 AM
VC,
Well as good as the V-drives are, the outdrive is the state of the art, and many feel they improve the handling. In years gone by we've run #3's, 5's and the early 6's. The best there is now is the dry sumped #6 because it will take the HP and torque that the ski race boats have available. It will live much longer than anything we have. We're hopeing that Wiseman will also bring out something for this sport soon.
I'm sure 1100 horsepower is reasonable on pump gas (but only from the airport pump; 100LL), but takes a little bit of re-programing of the EFI.
How fast are the skiers? Well at the worlds in October at the Parker leg (3rd day) one of the leaders was radar'd at 122+. The heats for the women and men were 45 minutes plus 1 lap...

Dans76Schiada
04-13-2002, 08:41 AM
My Schiada has a Turbo-400 It works very well. Park is awful nice. You can just pull up on a sand bar and throw in park. No need to use a anchor....LOL
I don't see anyone mention a Borg-Warner transmission. I bought one but have never put it in my Stevens. I bought the C-71. I been wanting to give it a try. I was going to build a Glide, But the boat is only 17ft. I was afraid of the space problem.

grimreaper
04-13-2002, 10:39 AM
how about a real steep pitch prop with the 3 or 2 speed trans?

Thunderbutt
04-13-2002, 02:23 PM
Burt, I'm going to differ with you on that statment. I have 3- buddies that have out drive boats, one with a single motor Envison, one with a single motor Baja, and one with a twin Bija. The twin Bija tracks good but the single motor out drives wander all over the place. I have taken them all in my Spectra 20 v-drive and they say there is no compairson as to the ride of the boat as far as direction. there boats take the chop a little better the mine because I am 20 feet and they are 29, 30 and 32. QUOTE]Originally posted by burtandnancy:
VC,
Well as good as the V-drives are, the outdrive is the state of the art, and many feel they improve the handling. In years gone by we've run #3's, 5's and the early 6's. The best there is now is the dry sumped #6 because it will take the HP and torque that the ski race boats have available. It will live much longer than anything we have. We're hopeing that Wiseman will also bring out something for this sport soon.
I'm sure 1100 horsepower is reasonable on pump gas (but only from the airport pump; 100LL), but takes a little bit of re-programing of the EFI.
How fast are the skiers? Well at the worlds in October at the Parker leg (3rd day) one of the leaders was radar'd at 122+. The heats for the women and men were 45 minutes plus 1 lap... [/QUOTE]

schiada96
04-13-2002, 05:32 PM
ThunderB I dont think you can compare a Baja to a Hallet vector as far as handling goes. You should see those things go around corners at speed.

GasTurbine
04-18-2002, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by burtandnancy:
96,You're right. The powerglide is also shorter if space is a problem, but not sure it will take the BIG horsepower of todays motors.
Havent heard anybody mention Velvet drive...like in ski boats...
Smooth, reliable and good on the space issues.

burtandnancy
04-18-2002, 07:29 AM
GAS,
thats too easy! But it won't take the big HP numbers. I think the question was regarding two or three speed automatics.

GasTurbine
04-18-2002, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by burtandnancy:
GAS,
thats too easy! But it won't take the big HP numbers. I think the question was regarding two or three speed automatics.
The original poster was looking to add just a net and rev...but yes...this thread has evolved. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
I also know that the Velvet comes in 2 (maybe 3) stregnths, but dont know the HP numbers, but would agree with you...even the biggest one probably would handle the HPs these guys are talking about. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
As for adding forward gears, I really dont see the point. Since water is the same thickness all day long, I cant see a boat preforming any better...as long as its propped correctly in the first place.
Now if you want to go uphill in your boat, or the water changes to soup... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
Take care.

schiada96
04-19-2002, 09:34 AM
Gasturbine we dont have linear torque so we add a lower gear to get going faster. Kind of like our cars. Plus it makes the boats a lot more friendly around the docks, ever try a blown v-drive around the docks with a big gear and a steep prop? That's a fun thing. Plus it sounds cool to hear a boat shift.

69 Elim
04-19-2002, 10:19 AM
When shifting while under power, have any of you exploded a v-drive case from the abrupt power change. Do you have a way to soften the blow the the cassale?

GasTurbine
04-19-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by schiada96:
Gasturbine we dont have linear torque so we add a lower gear to get going faster. Kind of like our cars. Plus it makes the boats a lot more friendly around the docks, ever try a blown v-drive around the docks with a big gear and a steep prop? That's a fun thing. Plus it sounds cool to hear a boat shift.
As yes...linear torque...its great to have...guess Im spoiled. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif
But anyway, Yes...I have had many hi-perf boats over the years, including blown hemis, and what I do, is pitch the prop so she running at yellow line at WFO, and that is that. With a strong engine and slip, one can be in the peak of the torque curve rather quickly, but I suppose a shifting "transmission" might yeild some small benifit in forward mode, but hardly a huge performance gain.
Methinks having a net and rev would be the more obvious gain.
And yea...it would be *definetly* cool to hear a boat "shift" as she went by...I would surely turn my head! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
Happy boatin'!

69 Elim
04-19-2002, 11:44 AM
ok, for those of us non edumaked, what the F is "linear torque"??? (I just wanta go FAST!)

superdave013
04-19-2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by GasTurbine:
As yes...linear torque...its great to have...guess Im spoiled. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif
But anyway, Yes...I have had many hi-perf boats over the years, including blown hemis, and what I do, is pitch the prop so she running at yellow line at WFO, and that is that. With a strong engine and slip, one can be in the peak of the torque curve rather quickly, but I suppose a shifting "transmission" might yeild some small benifit in forward mode, but hardly a huge performance gain.
Methinks having a net and rev would be the more obvious gain.
And yea...it would be *definetly* cool to hear a boat "shift" as she went by...I would surely turn my head! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
Happy boatin'!
You should see the drag boats run through the gears. They get out of the hole much quicker with a lower gear. Get going around 90 and grab second gear. Oh yeah! Can you say Lencos and air shifters http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

SANGER496
04-19-2002, 06:26 PM
Grimreaper, if your serious about installing a Turbo 400 in your boat, let me know. I recently installed one in place of a driveshaft in a 73 Sanger flatbottom. Art Carr racing transmissions is located near me,they were very helpful. I wrote down my dimensions before I started, can dig them up for you. We also have a 21 foot with a turbo 400. Love it.

GasTurbine
04-21-2002, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by 69 Elim:
ok, for those of us non edumaked, what the F is "linear torque"??? (I just wanta go FAST!)
"Linear" means flat, or unchanging. When applied to piston engines, the torque curve is like a sine wave...it starts low, then finnally "peaks" at a given point, then drops off. This is through the operational RPM range of the engine in question.
A different type of engine...say a gas turbine ( http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif ) has a very flat curve (linear)...it will make just about the same amount of torque through out its entire operational RPM range, thus, makes it (performance wise) superior to its equal piston engine...even if you *could* compare the two. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
Different torque curves will vary with size (borexstroke), type (2 stroke...which are very peaky), Wankels, displacement, etc.
For speciality applications, builders can choose the best plant for there vehicle. For example, a 4 wheel drive hill climber would want an entirely different torque curve, as opposed to say...a Nascar, or even an alcohol blown dragster.
For a look at a "different" application for a boat, go to my web site here:
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
Take care.
[This message has been edited by GasTurbine (edited April 22, 2002).]

Boatski
04-23-2002, 06:48 PM
I have a 21' mini cruiser with a velvet drive. What kind of improvement will I gain going to a turbo 400? My engine is only a 396 putting out about 400 HP. It is very slugglish out of the hole. Will a turbo 400 help me get out of the hole and on plane quicker? Thanks for any info.

burtandnancy
04-23-2002, 08:19 PM
ski,
In your case, I would use the turbo 400 but leave 1st gear in. You quick shift from 1 to 2, get it over on plane, pull your best rpm and hit drive.
FYI, I drove a Hallett 210 with 1600 hp today (second and third only). Oops, it had an outdrive, so I shouldn't talk about it here...

Raysoncrafter
04-23-2002, 09:08 PM
SNIP>>For a look at a "different" application for a boat, go to my web site here: http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
Holy Smokes, Gas Turbine!! Looks like the prop off the QE2...I'll bet Ernie Casale is spinning in his grave...get aload of that square box v-drive! I love it! Somebody was a hoppychopper mechanic in 'Nam, I'll bet. What a rocket! You oughta sell rides at the V-Drive Regatta.