paging boat cop....help

[seanv]

what are the regs involved with an oui check point? they had one out yesturday at pleasant and, i saw all the boats, the oui markers and such. my question is this, are we supposed to treat that bouy line as a no wake? i saw other boats get back on plane as well as pwc buzzin around. i just went with the safe side and treated it like a no wake. i flagged down two leo's but they answered with the "no blow right thru and we'll check you for sure" comment. that tells me to no wake it but, i would like to know the true rules on this. thx sean

[RiverDave]

They have OUI bouies? What the hell does that look like?
RD

[seanv]

sorry dave i didnt snap a pic for you:devil:
they were small in size like a reef marker but had " oui check point" on them.

[Jordy]

They have OUI bouies? What the hell does that look like?
RD
Just like a regular bouy, but as Sean said, they had "OUI CHECKPOINT" and there were about a dozen MCSO and Game & Fish boats out making stops. :jawdrop: :D

[squirt'nmyload]

what are the regs involved with an oui check point? they had one out yesturday at pleasant and, i saw all the boats, the oui markers and such. my question is this, are we supposed to treat that bouy line as a no wake? i saw other boats get back on plane as well as pwc buzzin around. i just went with the safe side and treated it like a no wake. i flagged down two leo's but they answered with the "no blow right thru and we'll check you for sure" comment. that tells me to no wake it but, i would like to know the true rules on this. thx sean
we saw you talking to them and was wondering what was going on. i noticed the markers coming in and just treated it like a no wake bouy. saw those lice flying around in there too, f in jackasses.

[seanv]

i was fockin confused! lake lice at speed but when i asked if i should treat the area like a "no wake" i get a focked up reply from two different sheriffs boats. :( :confused:

[Ike]

in AZFAMILY.com
More than a dozen nabbed for DUI at Lake Pleasant
07:45 AM Mountain Standard Time on Monday, June 4, 2007
Staff and wire reports
Officers were back out at Lake Pleasant over the weekend to catch boaters who might have been driving under the influence.
According to the boating law administrator for the Arizona Game and Fish Department, officers made contact with up to 300 boats. Sixteen people were cited.
Yesterday's operation was one of seven that will take place this summer.
Over Memorial Day weekend, officer set up a DUI checkpoint to nab drunk drivers leaving the lake.
About 1,000 cars were stopped, and between eight and 15 people were arrested for DUI.

[seanv]

for the record i wasnt cited for anything. im just trying to get the info so i dont break the rules and look like one of the jackoff's we all complain about.:notam:

[Boatcop]

It depends on what how the buoys were marked and what was on them. When I ran one at the River in '96, we had the buoys marked with the Circle and worded both "OUI CHECKPOINT" and "NO WAKE".

[ManOnTheRun]

it was the same bouy as the no wake, but with no circle. An orange stripe around the top and botom said OUI in the middle. I was next to one for about 25 mins. Got a ticket for my 11 yr old not wearing a vest. i didn't know he had to be 12. My bad.
They checked me for everything. Vests, Two extinguishers (and the gauge), checked my halon, throw float and line, horn, and reg. sticker. Never asked about drinking.
I was next to an elminator who walked me when i was doing 80. They must of thought I was out of control...i said can you run up to north ramp and ticket all those jet skiers who keep running out in front of everyone.

[Make it a Double]

we saw you talking to them and was wondering what was going on. i noticed the markers coming in and just treated it like a no wake bouy. saw those lice flying around in there too, f in jackasses.
I just let Brian drive. No worry:D :D

[squirt'nmyload]

I just let Brian drive. No worry:D :D
it's surprising they didn't stop us. we sure were haulin the mail across the lake. i woke up this morning thinking about that run.........i'm there for ya anytime buddy :D :D :D

[Make it a Double]

it's surprising they didn't stop us. we sure were haulin the mail across the lake. i woke up this morning thinking about that run.........i'm there for ya anytime buddy :D :D :D
Thanks. Brian anytime.:) Those buoys were confusing

[squirt'nmyload]

i said can you run up to north ramp and ticket all those jet skiers who keep running out in front of everyone.
WE HAVE A WINNER HERE FOLKS

[seanv]

wow after reading your list of things they look for i need to go thru my boat again.
funny, they didnt say a word about me not having reg numbers displayed... i better find the coastguard delio quick.:eek:

[Classic Daycruiser]

I believe random OUI Check points have the same guidelines as DUI Check points.
They can not randomly stop boaters (they can if your doing something wrong). So they setup a OUI Check Point Area. Of coarse the 10 lane would be their first choice, but I've seen those bouys at the entrance of Humbug cove as well.
I would think if your not breaking any laws, and you stay out of the OUI checkpoint area (marked by bouys), then you won't be stopped. Don't call me on it, but with my limited reasoning, and what I've heard/seen, make me believe it is a work around, so LEO can hunt down drunks w/o appearing to violate someones civil rights. (the "appearing" part I think was settled in superior court somewhere)
I'm sure boat cop or some DUI/OUI attorney could shed more light as to how random searches must meet a set of guilde lines.
On the streets they use a sign "Checkpoint ahead".

[Boatcop]

The Coast Guard by Federal Law, and Marine Enforcement Officers by Case Law (Supreme Court Decision) allows random warrantless stops of vessels. Here is the text of the SCUS decision:
Not only is the warrant requirement inapplicable to brief stops of vessels, but also none of the safeguards applicable to stops of automobiles on less than probable cause are necessary predicates to stops of vessels. In United States v. Villamonte-Marquez, the Court upheld a random stop and boarding of a vessel by customs agents, lacking any suspicion of wrongdoing, for purpose of inspecting documentation. The boarding was authorized by statute derived from an act of the First Congress, and hence had ''an impressive historical pedigree'' carrying with it a presumption of constitutionality. Moreover, ''important factual differences between vessels located in waters offering ready access to the open sea and automobiles on principal thoroughfares in the border area'' justify application of a less restrictive rule for vessel searches. The reason why random stops of vehicles have been held impermissible under the Fourth Amendment, the Court explained, is that stops at fixed checkpoints or roadblocks are both feasible and less subject to abuse of discretion by authorities. ''But no reasonable claim can be made that permanent checkpoints would be practical on waters such as these where vessels can move in any direction at any time and need not follow established 'avenues' as automobiles must do.'' Because there is a ''substantial'' governmental interest in enforcing documentation laws, ''especially in waters where the need to deter or apprehend smugglers is great,'' the Court found the ''limited'' but not ''minimal'' intrusion occasioned by boarding for documentation inspection to be reasonable. Dissenting Justice Brennan argued that the Court for the first time was approving ''a completely random seizure and detention of persons and an entry onto private, noncommercial premises by police officers, without any limitations whatever on the officers' discretion or any safeguards against abuse.
Generally when fixed checkpoints on the water are set, there is a public announcement, usually by Press Release to local newspapers, TV and radio. And as was said there are warning buoys, so an individual can make a choice not to enter the checkpoint zone.
We had one checkpoint on the River back in '96 where we set up a No Wake/OUI zone in front of the County Park Lagoon, set up in the north bound side of the River. Every vessel entering the zone was contacted and a brief inspection was done. If a violation was observed (PFD, F/E, etc) the boat was directed into the lagoon for cite. Also if there were indications of impairment, the boat was escorted into the lagoon for further investigation.
That was extremely man-power heavy, and took a lot of logistics in setting and retrieving buoys, inspecting boats etc. We stopped about 160 boats and got 16 OUIs. Do the math. 10% of the boat operators on the water that day, and entering the OUI zone, were drunk. This doesn't take into consideration the ones that avoided the zone.
We now favor saturation patrols, or "Wolf Packs", where we put a lot of patrol boats and officers on the water and make stops based on observed violations. Although we legally don't have to, this type of operation is more "boater friendly", in that safe, legal boaters aren't unnecessarily inconvenienced. Also the arguments of "illegal stops" aren't raised, and less of the court's time is taken up in suppression hearings.
But when you come right down to it, the Courts (up to and including the US Supreme Court) have consistently permitted stops of vessels without probable cause for document and safety inspections.
But with all the obvious violations out there, there's no need to stop boaters for no reason. We're busy enough with the unsafe or illegal boaters.

[seanv]

thanks alan. i guess i will try to flag one down and ask how they want that area treated. no wake vs cautious at speed bla bla bla.:D

[Ike]

THe Coast Guard authority is found in Title 49 US Code Chapter 89 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode14/usc_sec_14_00000089----000-.html
This warrantless search authority has been upheld countless times in court for over 200 years. Of course what they teach us is "abuse it and you lose it" so we have to be very careful in using this and not be abusive to people, etc, in other words not abuse our authority. Much of this has been extended to state authorities in the enforcement of boating safety laws, because the rules that apply in stopping and searching cars simply doesn't apply on the water where it is relatively easy for a boat to avoid a boarding or disappear over the horizon while the officer tries to get a warrant.
The Coast Guard has used these check points in major ports, usually it's called a harbor blockade where every ship and boat is boarded, but it too is very labor intensive and hardly ever produces anything above minor violations. So it's not done very often. But random boardings are permitted and in the old days when we had Boating Safety Detachments at Parker and Havasu, Lake Powell, and other places (Fox Chain of Lakes was a hot spot) boats were often surprised to find the Coast Guard doing a boarding. Of course back then there were no BAC limits. It was entirely up to the boarding officer whether or no the operator was impaired, and it had to be cited under negligent operation, which meant that the operator had to be operating the boat in an unsafe manner. So there weren't many citations for OUI. But there was always the authority to terminate a voyage (Yeah the Coast Guard can send you back to shore until the problem, whatever it may be, is corrected) and that was used in a l lot od OUI cases. Not anymore. A breathalyzer and various other tests will resolve the matter.
So ,make sure you have designated driver, both for the boat and the tow vehicle. Stay safe.

[boatncraze]

I'm not a big believer in being pulled over on the lake for a saftey check. The last time I was stopped was last year on saguaro lake and the lady completly tore up the side of my boat. I dont think she or the other officer had ever opperated a boat before in their life! They proceded to check my saftey equipment, they asked for life jackets for every person on board and a fire extinguisher. They never even asked to see my throw cusion or hear my audible sound device (horn) which are required on vessels in the state of arizona. I havent been stopped since but after 800 dollars in glass work I will just keep driving and tie up to a dock to let them perform a saftey check. You better believe though that the officer will take his shoes off before he boards my boat!!!

[Boatcop]

I'm not a big believer in being pulled over on the lake for a saftey check. The last time I was stopped was last year on saguaro lake and the lady completly tore up the side of my boat. I dont think she or the other officer had ever opperated a boat before in their life! They proceded to check my saftey equipment, they asked for life jackets for every person on board and a fire extinguisher. They never even asked to see my throw cusion or hear my audible sound device (horn) which are required on vessels in the state of arizona. I havent been stopped since but after 800 dollars in glass work I will just keep driving and tie up to a dock to let them perform a saftey check. You better believe though that the officer will take his shoes off before he boards my boat!!!
Sound producing devices are NOT required under Arizona law. Although a throwable device is required on boats 16 feet and over.
And like the Coast Guard, any boat in Arizona can be ordered ashore (voyage terminated) to correct ANY unsafe or illegal condition. It's a separate violation if the operator doesn't comply and goes back out without correcting the violation.

[IMPATIENT 1]

we only have 1 patrol boat that patrols 5 different area lakes:D but when i do see him, i make an effort to find him, get checked(when they're there, they check everyone on the lake) after a couple times a season, they remember my boat and leave me alone knowing full well i'm legal;)