Blown 6.2 vs. Raylar 496 vs. 525EFI

[Mountainstone]

We are shopping for our next boat (first "hot" boat) and I have very little understanding of the whys and hows of high performance marine engines. After some research, I have determined that:
A Mercury 6.2-liter with a Whipple supercharger produces almost 525 horsepower, costs between $18-19K (engine plus blower) and weighs less than 1000 pounds.
A Mercury 496 Mag with the Raylar kit produces right at 525 horsepower, costs about $29,500 (engine plus kit) and weighs just over 1100 pounds.
A Mercury 525EFI produces 525 horsepower, costs about $33,700 and weighs about 1100 pounds.
I couldn't find a price for Ilmor's 550 hrsepower V10, but it weighs 800 pounds and I bet it costs a mint.
The small block looks like the best performance per dollar, so why doesn't everybody looking for 500HP engines run blown 6.2-liters? I am obviously missing something, can someone give me a quick education? Thanx!

[laveycrafter]

I love my 6.2, great tourqe, economy, and speed. Reliable as a honda, but.......If I had to do it again, I would have gone 496 with closed cooling, something the 6.2 did not offer (don't know about now) then. That would be the only reason. Lavey told me the 496 will push the boat into the low 70's w/ the 496, as it is now, I am almost at 70! And can run a 65 all weekend long with out hitting the pumps!
As far as blowing them, don't know, any modification to an engine usually adds to unreliability issues, just my experience. Going from 340 horse to bolt on 525 horse equals strain and pain on the motor, and a messed up weekend.
Good luck!

[KineticoH20]

Interesting thread, it will be interesting what the pro's will say?

[Beer-30]

The small block looks like the best performance per dollar, so why doesn't everybody looking for 500HP engines run blown 6.2-liters? I am obviously missing something, can someone give me a quick education? Thanx!
Although the 377 is a stout little motor, the added boost will shorten it's life. Any motor's life will be shortened by a blower. If you treat it right, it will last (probably) longer than you have the boat.
My recipie would be to run the thing under it's max. If the kit comes ready for 5 psi of boost, I would run 3.5 or 4. It would still run faster than either of the two big-blocks, due to the little bit of weight savings. Plus, add a nice alum or tubular exhaust and it will help with both weight (stock is cast iron) and longevity (cleaner running). Keeping the boost below max will save the motor in the event of a slight lean condition while running. Any lean condition would be bad with a supercharged motor, but if it is not running at it's absolute peak it will be more forgiving.

[Raylar]

I'll sell you Raylar equipped 496HO's new with one year warranty and Bravo X drive fully assembled for your new boat and they weigh 1000 pounds at $27.5 plus freight. I'd like to see someone buy a HP525 complete with drive for $33K
I don't think thats a good number, if my sources are correct unless the boat builder is doing a little "move cost and make up price game"! As for the blower route on any marine motor I think Beer 30 and others have the call right when they talk about reduced engine life. Resale seems to take a hit also on blower equipped boats.
Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

[Just foreplay]

We are shopping for our next boat (first "hot" boat) and I have very little understanding of the whys and hows of high performance marine engines. After some research, I have determined that:
A Mercury 6.2-liter with a Whipple supercharger produces almost 525 horsepower, costs between $18-19K (engine plus blower) and weighs less than 1000 pounds.
A Mercury 496 Mag with the Raylar kit produces right at 525 horsepower, costs about $29,500 (engine plus kit) and weighs just over 1100 pounds.
A Mercury 525EFI produces 525 horsepower, costs about $33,700 and weighs about 1100 pounds.
I couldn't find a price for Ilmor's 550 hrsepower V10, but it weighs 800 pounds and I bet it costs a mint.
The small block looks like the best performance per dollar, so why doesn't everybody looking for 500HP engines run blown 6.2-liters? I am obviously missing something, can someone give me a quick education? Thanx!
I'll sell you Raylar equipped 496HO's new with one year warranty and Bravo X drive fully assembled for your new boat and they weigh 1000 pounds at $27.5 plus freight. I'd like to see someone buy a HP525 complete with drive for $33K
I don't think thats a good number, if my sources are correct unless the boat builder is doing a little "move cost and make up price game"! As for the blower route on any marine motor I think Beer 30 and others have the call right when they talk about reduced engine life. Resale seems to take a hit also on blower equipped boats.
Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Here's your "hook up" right here and problem solved..!

[don johnson]

Why not a GT Performance, Teague or Pfaff N/A 650 HP motor for a fraction of the cost of any of those motors?

[Kachina26]

Do the 525!

[HALLETT BOY]

Does anyone marinize the LS series engines from GM, I know GM has dropped the big block now because the 6.0L produces the same horsepower...think Corvette 7.0L @ 500 plus horsepower and super compact and light ! These engines are the future .

[Beer-30]

Does anyone marinize the LS series engines from GM, I know GM has dropped the big block now because the 6.0L produces the same horsepower...think Corvette 7.0L @ 500 plus horsepower and super compact and light ! These engines are the future .
Looks like it:
http://www.pcmengines.com/pcm2.html

[dumbandyoung]

I think if your willing to pay 33k for a 525... You should call some custom engine builders and see how much more Hp you can have for less $$.
Based on the engines your looking at, Im assuming this is an i/o...
What kind of drive are you thinking of going with?

[KineticoH20]

Why not a GT Performance, Teague or Pfaff N/A 650 HP motor for a fraction of the cost of any of those motors?
OK I'll bite, how much do these builders sell thier 650hp complete with headers for? Im not sure if it's a fraction of 27.5k for an engine and outdrive!

[Mountainstone]

I think if your willing to pay 33k for a 525... You should call some custom engine builders and see how much more Hp you can have for less $$.
Based on the engines your looking at, Im assuming this is an i/o...
What kind of drive are you thinking of going with?
I am NOT willing to pay $33K for a "blue" engine, particularly considering their maintenance schedules. What I am trying to discover is why ANYBODY would pay that amount of money for 525 horsepower when there are other viable options. There must be something to these engines that I am failing to account for. I'd like to know what that "something" is (and for that kinda cash it better not be just the neato blue anodizing/paint).
I am asking questions about power because we will be purchasing a used boat next year. I intend to buy something with a stock engine and then modify it for higher output. I am considering the 6.2 or the 496 MAG because they are less expensive used than a 496 HO or a "blue" engine, and I can bolt on the power adders myself. We are not wealthy and I am happy to go fast (relatively speaking) on the cheap (relatively speaking).
All I know so far is that we want a v-hull I/O in the 23-26 foot range. Obviously if I want a 500-horse 80mph boat, I will have to step up to a Bravo X drive at the same time I bolt on the power.
RAY- That's a heck of a deal. Is that a new short block? Maybe I can find something with a blown engine for super cheap...
Thanx everyone for your replies; please chime in if you have anything to add. I can't be the only one wondering about this horsepower/dollar question

[don johnson]

OK I'll bite, how much do these builders sell thier 650hp complete with headers for? Im not sure if it's a fraction of 27.5k for an engine and outdrive!
It has been a while since I bought a N/A motor from GT Perf so I cannot speak first handed to what these motors are going for these days. I can tell you that a close friend of mine bought 2 700 HP 572 CI Fuel Injected motors from Pfaff with Imco Powerflow exhaust for under $21k each last year. I am sure that carbuerated 650 HP motors would be at least $5k less. Compare that to a Mercury 525 at $34k and I think that is a fraction on a HP per dollar basis....

[Raylar]

Yes that's a new engine. If you look for a used motor its a lot cheaper, but be careful of blown up 496's, some are toast in the block and other components. The closed cooling of the 496 makes it a better motor like the HP525. Bring us a good core motor and we'll make you a nice piece.
As for a cheap 525Hp marine engine with any builder or motor, there is no such deal as a new 525hp motor and drive for under $25K, if someone offers you one, GO THE OTHER WAY! Whats the old saying, if its to good to be true it probably is!!
Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

[Beer-30]

Exactly......If it seems too good to be true, IT PROBABLY IS.

[spectras only]

We have over 75 hrs on this ZZ572 crate engine [ carefully broken in for 30+ hrs ;) ] pushing a 33 + boat to 65 mph on GPS with 4 people and half a tank :idea: . I have two 6.2's in my boat , and if I'd supercharge it , the pistons [ hypereutectic] would be changed that's all ;) .Got a new
hatch made with airscoops just in case :) .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/Img_1355.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/craig's%20interior%201
Link to a video http://media.putfile.com/Craig-pushes-the-stick

[Zimm944]

Sorry I know this thread is mostly if not all about motors, but I have an exhaust question. I have a 496 HO and was hoping some of you could point me in the right direction on aftermarket exhaust. What works, what the numbers were after, and if a prop change was needed.
Thanks

[Just foreplay]

Sorry I know this thread is mostly if not all about motors, but I have an exhaust question. I have a 496 HO and was hoping some of you could point me in the right direction on aftermarket exhaust. What works, what the numbers were after, and if a prop change was needed.
Thanks
Here is link for you...Check out the project section..some good info..
There is also another thread here on the boards with a install of said system
http://www.fullthrottlemarine.com/

[Beer-30]

Sorry I know this thread is mostly if not all about motors, but I have an exhaust question. I have a 496 HO and was hoping some of you could point me in the right direction on aftermarket exhaust. What works, what the numbers were after, and if a prop change was needed.
Thanks
Here is a Raylar'd 496 with Lightnings:
http://media.putfile.com/Bents-Nordic-Engine

[Zimm944]

Thanks, thats a great looking motor and it doesnt sound bad either.

[dumbandyoung]

I am NOT willing to pay $33K for a "blue" engine, particularly considering their maintenance schedules. What I am trying to discover is why ANYBODY would pay that amount of money for 525 horsepower when there are other viable options. There must be something to these engines that I am failing to account for. I'd like to know what that "something" is (and for that kinda cash it better not be just the neato blue anodizing/paint).
I am asking questions about power because we will be purchasing a used boat next year. I intend to buy something with a stock engine and then modify it for higher output. I am considering the 6.2 or the 496 MAG because they are less expensive used than a 496 HO or a "blue" engine, and I can bolt on the power adders myself. We are not wealthy and I am happy to go fast (relatively speaking) on the cheap (relatively speaking).
All I know so far is that we want a v-hull I/O in the 23-26 foot range. Obviously if I want a 500-horse 80mph boat, I will have to step up to a Bravo X drive at the same time I bolt on the power.
RAY- That's a heck of a deal. Is that a new short block? Maybe I can find something with a blown engine for super cheap...
Thanx everyone for your replies; please chime in if you have anything to add. I can't be the only one wondering about this horsepower/dollar question
relaible and warranty..oh and there are ALOT more places that will work on it

[KineticoH20]

Why not a GT Performance, Teague or Pfaff N/A 650 HP motor for a fraction of the cost of any of those motors?
Not sure where you get your numbers, was quoted today by Pfaff $29k for a 600hp EFI without outdrive of course.

[don johnson]

Not sure where you get your numbers, was quoted today by Pfaff $29k for a 600hp EFI without outdrive of course.
Sounds like prices have gone up some, no surprise as we are in inflationary times... I would say that the $29k is his day in day out price and could be had a little better. Price less the EFI, which I am not a big fan of personally, and this motor is at $23k-$24K. Still way better HP per $ then a 525 Mercury any way you slice it...

[Legal Chemistry]

why not something as simple as this? 13k 620 hp - 650 ft/lbs?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D12498793&autoview=sku

[Partycattin]

Do you have to modify those crate motors at all for marine application?
I've read on this site that ring gaps, freeze plugs and exhaust valves are typically different for marine engines.
Just curious what would need to be done to that crate motor to slap it into my Partycat.

[franky]

Lots of options :
www.marineassault.net
Marine Assault "Triple Nickel" 675 HP 555 CID naturally aspirated EFI. $22,400.00 OR
Buy a boat with a big block, pull the motor this winter and have it built. Or...
I took my 496HO out and put a cam, Arizona Speed and Marine intake/throttle body, MEFI-4 computer, a good oil cooler, stripped off the crap and have a reliable 500-525 hp ish turn key ride. It had 225 hrs on it, now has over 300. Hasn't been apart.
Check your PM's

[acatitude]

why not something as simple as this? 13k 620 hp - 650 ft/lbs?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D12498793&autoview=sku
guess you missed the sentence stating not intended for marine use.........

[Legal Chemistry]

I read that it says not intended for Marine use. Then again, not all places guarantee your build. What would be the difference if you dropped it in your 68 Chevy vs. boat?
So to make it "marine use": carb with J vent, marine starter, and ????
With my very limited experience the exhaust valves are the same, as well as ring gaps...

[Kachina26]

I read that it says not intended for Marine use. Then again, not all places guarantee your build. What would be the difference if you dropped it in your 68 Chevy vs. boat?
So to make it "marine use": carb with J vent, marine starter, and ????
With my very limited experience the exhaust valves are the same, as well as ring gaps...
Non marine motors are subject to reversion (sucking in water through the exhaust) because of how the cam is ground.

[jkh04200]

Legal, good question. The main difference between a marine motor and a street one are the tolerances. Marine motors run at a higher rpm's for longer periods of time. I've been told that when a shop machines for marine service the stay on the high side of all the tolerances. Ofcourse they do have brass freeze plugs and the head gasket is diffrent. Cams for marine applications are supposed to have 110-112 and up overlap. This is to stop reversion.
Reversion is not from sea water coming up the exhaust into the motor. It is from the cooling water exiting through the tips. As the water leaves the riser it is close to the 5,6,7 & #8 intake valves. If you dont have enough overlap you could suck water into one or more of those cylinders. After that! BOOM:)
Also on a marine motor you want the torque curve down low. Street engines usually start making power at 25-5 grand. Easy enough just put a stall in it. But, in a boat thats gonna suck. Make sure it makes its power from off idle. JMO