loader ramp length

[smokinjoe]

whats a good starting point for the length of the ramps on a top loader. how much ramp do you want below the keel? its in a 19 ft cp gullwing a+ s/s imp 6300 rpms droop snoot place diverter ride plate and shoe. The loader that was in the boat was welded together poorly and it was off centered and not true and I beleive it was causing the boat to hook on shut down. I have since then straightened it out and re welded it so its now true but I want to know if i should shorten the ramps up a little. they hang below the keel about 3/4''.

[fleetimus]

Most people do not recommend the loader hang below the keel on a lake boat!! One method is, start cutting it back until the hook goes away. Keep the ramps even and slowly work it back.

[HammerDown]

Most people do not recommend the loader hang below the keel on a lake boat!!...
Just wondering who "most people" are and why?
It would seem for a Lake/River Boat (where heavy chop can be the norm) the Pump would stay loaded better if the Ramps were a tad bit below Keel...I'm only talking +- 1/8".
This is how I trimed the Ramps back on my 21 Daytona. Plus I gave them a slight angle cut like an Arrow Head. When they were too long it seemed like it was heavy in the ass and the brakes were on when I let off the throttle...now it's ontop, stays loaded and no heavy drag when I let off the go pedal. I could cut them back more but then I feel the Pump may skip/unload at WOT in the rough.

[centerhill condor]

great questions and answers. do you take the loader off the boat to cut it? and what do you use to cut it?
thanks,
CC

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I know of a few lake boats that run really good with the loaders hanging below the keel.
I would cut them flush with the keel of the hull if it was mine. Also check to see if you have any hook in the hull. that will cause the boat to want to turn and violently.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

great questions and answers. do you take the loader off the boat to cut it? and what do you use to cut it?
thanks,
CC
measure with the loader in the pump. THen pull it out and cut it with a air saw/jig saw/die gringer. Once cut, sharpen the leading edges of the loader. THen paint it with speedcoat for refrence tuning;)
Spitter

[centerhill condor]

thanks!

[smokinjoe]

well I left the ramps the same length that they were (about 1/2 below keel ) and just by straightening the thing out and making it true like it should have been in the first place, it made all the differance in the world. I had enough time to put it in the water and with 2 people full of fuel made one pass at 98.2 and shut down and it went straight as an arrow and felt smooth. didnt feel like I was slamming on the brakes and it was still pulling hard on the top end. next run im sure will break into the 100 mph mark when its just me in the boat with no distractions. my only complaint now it it sure is hard to get itto hook up out of the hole without slipping. im thinking maybe i should have went with an inducer

[centerhill condor]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32610&stc=1&d=1181509779
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32609&stc=1&d=1181509758
so, should I remove the metal as marked on the loader? or can I simply put on my old rock grate? the condor doesn't go much faster than 55 mph anyway. I had the other part welded on as the fingers weren't parallel. Will the welded parts create bubbles (turbulence)?
thanks,
CC

[centerhill condor]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32609&d=1181509758
should I remove the area marked remove?
thanks,
CC

[HammerDown]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32610&stc=1&d=1181509779
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32609&stc=1&d=1181509758
so, should I remove the metal as marked on the loader? or can I simply put on my old rock grate? the condor doesn't go much faster than 55 mph anyway. I had the other part welded on as the fingers weren't parallel. Will the welded parts create bubbles (turbulence)?
thanks,
CC
"Turbulence"...I would think so!
American Turbine (I think) has little ramps welded into their Rock Grates that help direct the water to the Impeller.

[HammerDown]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32609&d=1181509758
should I remove the area marked remove?
thanks,
CC
It hangs down that much?:sqeyes:
If you do cut it all the way back to those lines, I would get more Weld on those Ramps.

[centerhill condor]

thanks!
CC

[GUGS102]

Each one is different. On my hallett with the super loader unmodified coming off full throttle wanted to throw me over the dash.
For shits and giggles, I tried just the rock grate and went from 72 to 78 with no other mods and no negative feedback.
I took 3.5" off the stingers and the speed stayed the same 72 but it did not push you into the dash as much. This weekend I took another 5" off and the boat will shoot smooth and straight from WOT to none.
One thing I did not like about the loader is how it unloaded in tight corners. I used to be able to do a tight 180* hammer the throttle and drive out of it. With the unmodified loader the same procedure would induce a cavitation to the point where the boat would stop all forward progress and take water over the side. Since modifying with the 8" cut off the stingers, it does not unload in the corners anymore.
In rough water on Sat 3.5' of white caps it would unload but no worse than the rock grate. I'll add another 1-2 back on and run it again.
To be honest, I may just run the rock grate and call it good unless I know it will be a busy weekend or rough water.
With the shoe and blue printing the intake and suction and with the inducer it stays loaded well.
Just my experience.
Gugs

[Sleeper CP]

well I left the ramps the same length that they were (about 1/2 below keel ) and just by straightening the thing out and making it true like it should have been in the first place, it made all the differance in the world. I had enough time to put it in the water and with 2 people full of fuel made one pass at 98.2 and shut down when her fingermails were digging into my arm and it went straight as an arrow and felt smooth. didnt feel like I was slamming on the brakes and it was still pulling hard on the top end. next run im sure will break into the 100 mph mark when its just me in the boat with no distractions. my only complaint now it it sure is hard to get itto hook up out of the hole without slipping. im thinking maybe i should have went with an inducer
Smokinjoe,
Sounds good at near 100, good running boat. If you are having a problem at hook-up you can try a shorter blocker, how long is the center blocker?
I have 5 intakes and the two that work the best are the 1/2" and 3/4" below the keel grates. One has a 5" blocker and the other a 7" blocker the 5" blocker hooks up better holeshot and skiing and they both run the same top speed. I found out the hard way about the angle of the ramps, I purchases a new ramp the " you'll get 4mph out of this one" put it in with out testing and a guy wanted to run that afternoon I said to my self "this is going to be easy, this things going to run 4mph faster. My mistake; it was 6mph slower -damn. Sounds like your boat rides nice a safe like mine at shut down that is a good feeling at that speed.

[Cs19]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32609&d=1181509758
should I remove the area marked remove?
thanks,
CC
i would not remove that.

[smokinjoe]

Sleeper,
there is no center blocker on my loader its open. Not sure if thats a good thing or bad. I do know this though whoever built it did not have it straight when they welded it together and that made a big difference in the handleing on shutdown. I dont like that feeling when it wants to go anywhere other then straight. I know the clearances are good on the pump maybe im just being too aggresive when im trying to get on plane but its kinda hard not to nail it as soon as you can without over reving it. maybe if i had a limmiter on it that would hold it down for a second then let it hit max rpm it would help to hook up. it feels like im loosing alot of time waiting for it to hook up when i should be maxed out and pulling hard. Ive checked the packings and they are snugged up.

[Sleeper CP]

SmokinJoe,
Sounds like you may need to just feather the thottle to get on plane. I have heard great things about the little inducer impellars, they really help you hook-up. Our CP runs best with the 5" blocker it helps lighten up the boat and air it out a bit. You may want to try one.
Sleeper CP

[HBjet]

19 ft cp gullwing a+ s/s imp 6300 rpms
Only 100 mph? :confused:
I would think if you have the power to turn that impeller at those RPM's and the pump is tight, you should be well into 100 unless you have some other issues going on that have no been discussed.
I turn a B stainless at 5900-6000rpm and run in the 95+mph range. 19' CP here too... So something doesn't seem right. Just wondering...:idea:
HB

[centerhill condor]

i would not remove that.
Yea, I'm gonna sell the loader and go back with the grate. This tug doesn't go fast enough to require a loader and I'm not planning on adding another 400 horses!
CC

[Cs19]

I thought the gold grate pictured was for the 19 CP, nevermind.
If it feels like the pump is cavitating when your trying to get it to roll over then blocker might be a bad choice.. Some pump work might be something to look into. Try an inducer, detail the impeller and put a rev limiter in, something a few hundred RPM above what it turns when hooked up.

[smokinjoe]

cs19 actually that gold loader does look exactly like mine. cant see all of it but the front part is like mine. impeller has been detailed and clearances are tight. the pump wass out of my old boat and its turning the same rpms as it was in the old boat and it had about 30 psi in the intake when i had it in the old boat. dont have a gauge hooked to it now but its still turning the same rpms so i figure its loading ok. as far as top speed I dont feel like i have tapped it out yet I do think there is more there I just need to get more testing time in on it I will be taking it to CFW this weekend and get some ideas of whats going on with it

[smokinjoe]

Made 4 consistant passes at 105 mph and no problems on shut down. didnt get any pics of it running but i was told ot looked like it was flat. I have a 4* wedge with the big side up(so its 4*+ Intake is set at 4.5*down) and the droop is 4* up does this sound about right? the place diverter doesnt seem to have much rooster tail to it and it doesnt seem to change the attitude of the boat very much either. Im happy with that top speed but it does me no good if I cant get out of the hole. going to have to get an inducer I think it just wont hook up or my foot is too heavy.

[Sleeper CP]

Hey Smokin,
Still running the A+ SS at 6,300? And do you know how heavy the boat is? And have you ever tried any of the nozzle reducers? It's been awhile, but your wedge and snoot set up sound just like mine maybe a degree off but real close. For max speed our rooster tail is only 3 feet or so off the water, maybe not even that? So that sounds right. We had to jack around with it to get enough adjustment out of it to be able to shoot a high rooster when we want to. But because of the neg wedge you have before the droop you can only get it to come so far back up. Everythings a compromise.
Sleeper CP

[FOURQ]

Made 4 consistant passes at 105 mph and no problems on shut down. didnt get any pics of it running but i was told ot looked like it was flat. I have a 4* wedge with the big side up(so its 4*+ Intake is set at 4.5*down) and the droop is 4* up does this sound about right? the place diverter doesnt seem to have much rooster tail to it and it doesnt seem to change the attitude of the boat very much either. Im happy with that top speed but it does me no good if I cant get out of the hole. going to have to get an inducer I think it just wont hook up or my foot is too heavy.
If it were mine i would talk to a pro about a new loader.... my boat pulles an A to 6300 flat footed from a dead stop out of the hole with out blowing the pump away with NO pump work other then tight clearances I set. I do have a loader from TPR that hangs below the keel about 1/4".

[smokinjoe]

Hey sleeper cp,
still running 6300 rpms. not sure on the weight of the hull. its a 79 with PJB hin #. Not even really sure who made the hull i get so many different stories. and no i havent tried any nozzle sizes. Just the PD nozzle is all I have run.

[smokinjoe]

FOURQ,
thats interesting because I know my clearances are tight and had them checked by a reputable pump builder also. there is no way that mine would ever hookup like yours does right now so something is going on with my set up for sure. I cant even take it to 3k without it slipping but once it hooks up it pulls like crazy ! but who wants to play catch up when you can be out front in the first place. I will look into one of those loaders as well. thanks!

[FOURQ]

FOURQ,
thats interesting because I know my clearances are tight and had them checked by a reputable pump builder also. there is no way that mine would ever hookup like yours does right now so something is going on with my set up for sure. I cant even take it to 3k without it slipping but once it hooks up it pulls like crazy ! but who wants to play catch up when you can be out front in the first place. I will look into one of those loaders as well. thanks!
Im not saying that a loader like mine will work but they have for me in my last boat as well as this one. and when you say your pump is tight how tight??? you sure they did what they said and you wanted? I have had that happen to me were you ask fore one thing and get another..thats why I do all my own pumps now. it may be more than a loader problem but I think I would try to fix it without an inducer and use that as a last option. you can get a good loader from MPD or Bad Habit Racing ( formerly TPR )
Shawn

[YeLLowBoaT]

Hey sleeper cp,
still running 6300 rpms. not sure on the weight of the hull. its a 79 with PJB hin #. Not even really sure who made the hull i get so many different stories. and no i havent tried any nozzle sizes. Just the PD nozzle is all I have run.
here is who made it...
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_detail.aspx?id=PJB

[smokinjoe]

clearances were .022 at the shoulder and ..026 at the wear ring. He said anything tighter would be risky. do these figures look ok or should i reset them in your opinion?

[FOURQ]

clearances were .022 at the shoulder and ..026 at the wear ring. He said anything tighter would be risky. do these figures look ok or should i reset them in your opinion?
look pretty tight to me ...

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

clearances were .022 at the shoulder and ..026 at the wear ring. He said anything tighter would be risky. do these figures look ok or should i reset them in your opinion?
Mines as tight as yours;)

[centerhill condor]

Mines as tight as yours;)
:sqeyes:

[FOURQ]

Mines as tight as yours;)
what a FAGGGG

[Sleeper CP]

Hey sleeper cp,
still running 6300 rpms. not sure on the weight of the hull. its a 79 with PJB hin #. Not even really sure who made the hull i get so many different stories. and no i havent tried any nozzle sizes. Just the PD nozzle is all I have run.
SmokinJoe,
I just pulled out my old HP/impeller rpm chart. Depending upon your set-up it might not be accurate, but it would assume that to turn your A+ at 6,300 it would take about 825-850 HP at 6,300. The chart reads 800HP at 6,300 for an A impeller. Do these number's sound about right for your engine?
Sleeper CP

[smokinjoe]

well I cant say for sure it has never been on the dyno. I do know that in my old hull when the pump wasnt loading it would spin 6800 then when it would load it dropped to 6300 so Im assuming its loaded properly and whatever the chart says for HP would be pretty close. 8-71 blower with hillborn injection brodix heads C&A pistons and rods forged crank 4 bolt comp cam 708 lift roller lifters and rockers jessel belt drive msd 7 running alcohol. i think im running about 8# boost. I need to get a gauge on it

[Sleeper CP]

All of that and no boost gauge? :confused: I quess you couldn't afford it yeah;) ?
How many inches?
Sleeper CP

[smokinjoe]

454 .060 over. I had a gauge on it at one time then I had some blower isuess and I re striped it this time and havent had the gauge to put back on it but i have it now and will be checking next trip out and see what the new stripping will help me out at all. Im also considering going back to pump gas if i can get away with it since im running low compression pistons it makes more sence the price of alky jumped to 3.50 a gal where i buy it.

[Sleeper CP]

Wow,
$3.50 a gallon and it burns twice as much as fast as gas. That'll add up.
Sleeper CP