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AzMandella
02-13-2006, 04:32 PM
They just anounced that Chad Knaus has been ejected from any more participation with th Daytona 500.As far as I'm concerned the whole team should be banned from the race.You damn well know that Jimmie Johnson and other members of the crew exactly what he was up to.as many times as they has been caught cheating they should make an example of that team.

Kilrtoy
02-13-2006, 04:33 PM
WHAT...
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
better explaination please....

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 04:41 PM
WHAT...
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
better explaination please....
It's pretty explanitory.They got caught in post inspection in regards to the templates after qulifying.He somehow rigged the rear window to move up and down with the trackbar to increase downforce.NASCAR said it was a blatant attempt to gain an unfair edge.And if you follow NASCAR you would already know about the prior attemts to cheat.

Mr. Pixilated
02-13-2006, 04:43 PM
It's pretty explanitory.They got caught in post inspection in regards to the templates after qulifying.He somehow rigged the rear window to move up and down with the trackbar to increase downforce.NASCAR said it was a blatant attempt to gain an unfair edge.And if you follow NASCAR you would already know about the prior attemts to cheat.
Cheaters suck!!!

jbtrailerjim
02-13-2006, 04:43 PM
I think they both should be suspended. Hopefully Knaus will be suspended a few races. Here is a link to the article. JJ & Knaus= Cheaters (http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/cup/02/13/jjohnson.knaus.suspension/index.html)

Kilrtoy
02-13-2006, 04:49 PM
It's pretty explanitory.They got caught in post inspection in regards to the templates after qulifying.He somehow rigged the rear window to move up and down with the trackbar to increase downforce.NASCAR said it was a blatant attempt to gain an unfair edge.And if you follow NASCAR you would already know about the prior attemts to cheat.
WOW, I have been out of it for a while.
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't racing.
Oh well

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 04:49 PM
I think they both should be suspended. Hopefully Knaus will be suspended a few races. Here is a link to the article. JJ & Knaus= Cheaters (http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/cup/02/13/jjohnson.knaus.suspension/index.html)
The article left out the other time he got caught with the concentric bolt that effectivly lengthened the rear trailingarms giving them more leverage on the springs letting the car sit lower going down the straightaway's.They should make hendrick pack up the whole team and send them home.I can't stand cheaters.Cheaters=Lowlife!

patsbrothel
02-13-2006, 04:52 PM
Give me a GD break guys .........this is NASCAR...........and cheating has always been part of the sport!.........."If you aint winning , you aint cheating" famous Quote.!

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 04:55 PM
WOW, I have been out of it for a while.
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't racing.
Oh well
yeah that's what Junior Johnson said.But this is the new era of racing.NASCAR don't put up with it and most people don't respect it either.

ChumpChange
02-13-2006, 04:59 PM
The article left out the other time he got caught with the concentric bolt that effectivly lengthened the rear trailingarms giving them more leverage on the springs letting the car sit lower going down the straightaway's.They should make hendrick pack up the whole team and send them home.I can't stand cheaters.Cheaters=Lowlife!
You must be a Tony Stewart fan.

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 05:00 PM
Give me a GD break guys .........this is NASCAR...........and cheating has always been part of the sport!.........."If you aint winning , you aint cheating" famous Quote.!
well you must be from the old day's of racing.I've built and crewchiefed quite a few SuperLatemodels and I can tell you the general concesus on cheating is not respected by other crechiefs and drivers
And the old saying is "You ain't racing if you ain't cheating"
Junior Johnson

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 05:04 PM
You must be a Tony Stewart fan.
Nope.Long time Rusty fan now Carl Edwards and always aFord fan.Had to stick with Rusty though for a few years with Dodge.And I know Jack Rousch would not put up with cheating within his organization he has 10 times the class that Hendrick has.

Flyinbowtie
02-13-2006, 05:17 PM
I tend to agree, Az.
Pulling the crewchief, while an inconvienence, isn't going to hurt JJ's chances that much. Your right, JJ knew damn well what was going on back there, the difference in the way the car handled with that edge was too significant for him to not notice even if "nobody told me"
I think NASCAR has made an effort to tighten things up in the past 4 or 5 years, that it based upon what I have seen and what friends who are deep into the NASCAR business tell me.
I also think blatantly obvious stunts like this by a crew chief leave NASCAR feeling like Knaus is calling them stupid by trying it. And as you pointed out, Knaus has done it before. He an't no virgin.
This wasn't an edge he sought in the engine, tweaking a carb or some such thing, or pushing the limits in some other area, this was a big enough deal thqt the LR tire was smoking coming off the corner due to the massive amount of downforce the car was making.
But you won't see NASCAR yanking the 48 car from the Daytona 500. Lowes and NASCAR are joined at the wallet too tightly for that to happen.
Everything else in my opinion is fair game. Suspend Knaus, fine the team, yank points, etc.

Big Warlock
02-13-2006, 05:18 PM
The team was simply exploring a gray area. Let's not use the word "cheating" just yet! (I have Johnson in my office pool!) :cool:

burtandnancy
02-13-2006, 05:21 PM
Don't think it was cheating, just a new innovation until NASCAR finds it and makes a new rule. Thats what racing is all about, doing something that the other teams haven't found out yet. BTW, was Jeffs car (24) in inspection for longer than normal?

SummitKarl
02-13-2006, 05:28 PM
They just anounced that Chad Knaus has been ejected from any more participation with th Daytona 500.As far as I'm concerned the whole team should be banned from the race.You damn well know that Jimmie Johnson and other members of the crew exactly what he was up to.as many times as they has been caught cheating they should make an example of that team.
whooo hooo
one cheby down 23 more to go :)

Flyinbowtie
02-13-2006, 05:29 PM
NASCAR's rules are pretty clear when it comes to any adjustment that modifies the body after the car clears tech. My understanding is that this little trick literally moved the rear window, pulling it down in such a fashion to allow more air to flow against the rear spoiler, planting the LR tire.
I seem to recall that last year, aming other things, it was the self-pressurizing shock absorbers that, as the suspension worked, increased /decreased pressure in the shock allowing the car to be slammed closer to the pavement, increasing downforce.
That wasn't legal either. Tricky, but no dice.

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 05:33 PM
The team was simply exploring a gray area. Let's not use the word "cheating" just yet! (I have Johnson in my office pool!) :cool:
A grey area? LIke Flyingbowtie said this is not pushing the extreme of any particular rule,but a blatent attempt at cheating.Knaus has been caught enough that you would think he would give it up and try to win legally.I guess he feels he's not good enough to win on his crewchiefing ability and knowledge.

Big Warlock
02-13-2006, 05:40 PM
but I doubt that anyone disputes that JJ is qualified to race in NASCAR. And he didn't get to where he is at by cheating his way there. So let's not get our shorts in a twist. Let's reserve that for when Hillary becomes President or real people start caring about FORD (SK) :yuk: !!!!
It's racing people. Enjoy the game for what it is. They aren't the only team exploring gray areas. I seem to have read "others" having some un welcome attention as well.

Boa1277
02-13-2006, 05:47 PM
Last time I checked he did pretty well last year, in fact diddnt he get 2nd just a few points behind Stewart, I would call that winning, he sure as hell beat the crap out of Carl backflipping Edwards in the overall points. Oh well he got caught exploiting a rule, he got suspended and I am sure he will have to do the time, but removing the whole team is way to extreme, you dont like the team or Hendricks so you are very biased, I guess I would be torqued if my team got it ass handed to them all last yr to...LOL

goneboatin
02-13-2006, 05:49 PM
[QUOTE=burtandnancy]Don't think it was cheating, just a new innovation until NASCAR finds it and makes a new rule. Thats what racing is all about, doing something that the other teams haven't found out yet./QUOTE]
With all the cars being so equal, nobody has any advantage. To me, this makes NASCAR racing boring. I see this as innovation, not cheating. "Necessity is the mother of invention", and that is no more true in motor racing of all sorts.
The cars all look the same, and they're so far removed from the original "stock car" format that a real "stock car" class should be added to get the sport back to its roots and get the manufacturers back into the sport.
Just my $0.02
GB

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 05:58 PM
Last time I checked he did pretty well last year, in fact diddnt he get 2nd just a few points behind Stewart, I would call that winning, he sure as hell beat the crap out of Carl backflipping Edwards in the overall points. Oh well he got caught exploiting a rule, he got suspended and I am sure he will have to do the time, but removing the whole team is way to extreme, you dont like the team or Hendricks so you are very biased, I guess I would be torqued if my team got it ass handed to them all last yr to...LOL
You better check your facts.Biffle and Edwards finished tied for 2nd 35 points behind Stewart.Johnson finished 5th,127 points back.so who handed who's ass to who?It's not that I dislike Jimmies team so much that I just want to see him DQ'd.They have tried to cheat more than anyone I can remember in 20yrs.And I'm sure Jimmie and others including possibly Rick Hendrick knew what was going on even before the car hit the track.And for doing so I think they should be forced to sit out a race as punnishment.they have proven that stripping them of points and fines are not enough to get the point across.But you may be right that I am biased because "I hate Cheaters!".

Boa1277
02-13-2006, 06:02 PM
Oh well I guess I better stick to Rake Fighting, shows how much I watch Nascar. LOL

burtandnancy
02-13-2006, 06:19 PM
I love NASCAR racing, but the rules are a little stiffeling, I wish they'ed give the teams a little more flexabilty. Its funny that the Tauras, Monte Carlo, Fusion and Entrepid all fit the same template and have 2 doors. I've seen the European equivalent of stock car racing, MB, BMW, Audi, Cadillac CTS-V and others and its really exciting. The cars look a lot more like real stockers, 4 doors and all.
Thot Stewarts comments were funny after he pushed (bumped)#11 to a win..

riverroyal
02-13-2006, 06:22 PM
eve :rolleyes: r cheats in racing

H20 Toie
02-13-2006, 06:38 PM
Besides those self adjusting shocks got him a win

AzMandella
02-13-2006, 06:41 PM
I love NASCAR racing, but the rules are a little stiffeling, I wish they'ed give the teams a little more flexabilty. Its funny that the Tauras, Monte Carlo, Fusion and Entrepid all fit the same template and have 2 doors. I've seen the European equivalent of stock car racing, MB, BMW, Audi, Cadillac CTS-V and others and its really exciting. The cars look a lot more like real stockers, 4 doors and all.
Thot Stewarts comments were funny after he pushed (bumped)#11 to a win..
I agree with you that they should loosen up the rules some and let the teams decide what to run.The only problem is every year they show up at Daytona and if one make is faster than the other two the others start whining.And instead of NASCAR telling the respective teams for Ford,Chevy and Dodge to shut up and get back into the wind tunnel for next year if they want to compete they start putting more spoiler on one to slow it down or take off some spoiler to speed it up.So to due away with all those problems they just made them all conform to one set of templates.Now it's up to the crew chiefs,drivers and enginebuilders to make the difference in who wins or looses.But alot of these rules are for superspeedways and mostly for safety.If they didn't keep these guys in the low 190's they would just be flying off the track like a wing.Just a characteristic of full bodied cars.

riverroyal
02-13-2006, 06:44 PM
one time we raced in Denver,racing for SeaDoo.We couldnt get good starts,just not oxygen up there.So my holder,the guy that helps on the starts,had a small oxygen bottle in his wetsuit style jacket,he ran a hose down his sleeve.As we started the engines on the gate,he put the hose in the air intake and shot some good clean air in.It made the 1st 50ft much better,,,,,no one ever cheats

Jordy
02-13-2006, 08:04 PM
Wow, so he had to cheat to get a 5th place qualifying spot? They suck at cheating or else everyone is way better at it. :notam:

Howie Feltersnatch
02-13-2006, 08:08 PM
Eatin' ain't Cheatin'...

Havasu_Dreamin
02-13-2006, 08:25 PM
These are all of the fines/suspensions/actions levied against Chad Knaus by Nascar:
Reprinted without the permission of the Associated Press
Crew chief Chad Knaus calls himself an innovator in the racing world. NASCAR hasn't exactly seen it the same way. Here is a Knaus timeline that includes penalties imposed by NASCAR:
• March, 21, 2001: Suspended two races and fined $5,000 for using unapproved shoulder harnesses in a car driver by Stacy Compton.
• Oct. 22, 2001: Fined $750 for using unapproved windshield clips on Compton's car.
• Dec. 10, 2001: Hired by Hendrick Motorsports as crew chief for Jimmie Johnson's No. 48 Chevrolet.
• July 11, 2002: Fined $25,000 for having improperly installed mounting bolts. The team also was docked 25 championship points and 25 owner points.
• July 23, 2002: Fined $5,000 for cursing during a live television interview, NASCAR's first sanction for profanity.
• May 21, 2003: Fined $1,000 for using an unapproved air-directional device during NASCAR's All-Star race.
• May 26, 2003: Signed five-year contract extension with Hendrick Motorsports.
• May 27, 2003: Fined $2,500 for using an unapproved refrigerant.
• March 15, 2005: Suspended two races and fined $35,000 because Johnson's race-winning car failed to meet the minimum height requirement during post-race inspection at Las Vegas. The team also was docked 25 championship points, which knocked Johnson out of the points lead.
• March 16, 2005: Appealed suspension.
• March 23, 2005: National Stock Car Racing Commission overturned the suspension and placed Knaus on 90 days of probation, but upheld the fine and the points penalty.
• Sept. 30, 2005: NASCAR changes a rule regarding shock absorbers after Knaus exploited a loophole that caused Johnson's car to fail post-race inspection at Dover International Speedway.
• Feb. 12, 2006: Johnson's qualifying time for the Daytona 500 was disqualified after the car failed a post-qualifying inspection.
• Feb. 13, 2006: Suspended from the Daytona 500 for raising the rear window on Johnson's car to alter the aerodynamics during the team's qualifying run.

Boa1277
02-13-2006, 10:43 PM
[QUOTE=Havasu_Dreamin]These are all of the fines/suspensions/actions levied against Chad Knaus by Nascar:
Reprinted without the permission of the Associated Press
Crew chief Chad Knaus calls himself an innovator in the racing world. NASCAR hasn't exactly seen it the same way. Here is a Knaus timeline that includes penalties imposed by NASCAR:
• March, 21, 2001: Suspended two races and fined $5,000 for using unapproved shoulder harnesses in a car driver by Stacy Compton.
• Oct. 22, 2001: Fined $750 for using unapproved windshield clips on Compton's car.
• Dec. 10, 2001: Hired by Hendrick Motorsports as crew chief for Jimmie Johnson's No. 48 Chevrolet.
• July 23, 2002: Fined $5,000 for cursing during a live television interview, NASCAR's first sanction for profanity.
• May 21, 2003: Fined $1,000 for using an unapproved air-directional device during NASCAR's All-Star race.
• May 26, 2003: Signed five-year contract extension with Hendrick Motorsports.
• May 27, 2003: Fined $2,500 for using an unapproved refrigerant.
•
How did these thing help him to win a race they seem like Bull Shit fines anyway....C-mon seat belts, windshield clips, cussing and bad refrigerant, these are a joke and you guys are getting a little anal here.

SnakeWrench
02-14-2006, 12:08 AM
I don't know the rule exactly word for word, but it states in the NASCAR rule book in BOLD lettering ".......ANY DEVICE FOUND TO CHANGE OR REDIRECT AIRFLOW DURING CAR OPERATION IS A BLATENT RULE INFRACTION............"
I'll look it up in the morning and post it but you get the idea. As for Knaus, he has always been under the watchful eye of NASCAR because of all the little infractions. As far as I am concerned, Knaus should be expelled from all nascar events for the season. I look at all the guys that are not cheating and have much more respect for them. I had many races that I was beat by guys knew were cheating and I gracefully took my place and said, " I was the fastest of the non cheaters,"

Seadog
02-14-2006, 06:36 AM
It is because of the cheaters that NASCAR has become so anal about comformity. What ticks me off is their obvious anti-Ford bias. When the Fords started the season beating the socks off of the other makes, they made changes to to make them "competitive". Even so, despite the fact that Dodge and Chevy outnumber the Fords by 4-1, look who won most of the top spots at the end of the season.

Liberator TJ1984
02-14-2006, 06:51 AM
WE all know the Yarbouroghs , Pettys ,Dallenbachs, Wallaces ,etc... and the rest of the NASCAR Pioneers NEVER CHEATED :rolleyes:
They were just trying to Adapt to the rules :cool:
I think it just Pisses NASCAR off that he finds things they didn't think of before :cry:

Havasu_Dreamin
02-14-2006, 08:07 AM
How did these thing help him to win a race they seem like Bull Shit fines anyway....C-mon seat belts, windshield clips, cussing and bad refrigerant, these are a joke and you guys are getting a little anal here.
I did not say one way or the other, just provided what the AP said were his past indiscretions with respect to the NASCAR rules, that he has broken the rules previously so it's not like he is some innocent person that got caught the first time.

AzMandella
02-14-2006, 08:31 AM
It is because of the cheaters that NASCAR has become so anal about comformity. What ticks me off is their obvious anti-Ford bias. When the Fords started the season beating the socks off of the other makes, they made changes to to make them "competitive". Even so, despite the fact that Dodge and Chevy outnumber the Fords by 4-1, look who won most of the top spots at the end of the season.
That's nothing new.NASCAR has been continually taking away from the Fords since the 80's.Ever since they came out with the Thunderbird which had the sharp rounded nose that cut through the air far beter than the lumina or the first version of the Monte Carlo with their blunt noses.And every year the Chevy guy's would whine and cry to NASCAR that they couldn't run as fast and they needed help wether it was to give the Ford more spoiler or the Chevy less to make up the difference.It seems they can't beat Ford in ingenuity so they have to win with politics.

dirty old man
02-14-2006, 08:44 AM
Its going to be fun when Camray gets in, but thats next year. We've still got the '06 season in front of us. Lots of interesting things going on

AzMandella
02-14-2006, 08:48 AM
Its going to be fun when Camray gets in, but thats next year. We've still got the '06 season in front of us. Lots of interesting things going on
That's what they said when they came into the Truck series.But they didn't really shake things up all that much.The best indicator will be how they do in the Busch series this year.

pm069
02-14-2006, 10:14 AM
In the good old days before NASCAR was an organized corporation the boys were running moonshine into the dry counties/states/areas, where it was against the law D.B.A. CHEATING! It's all part of the game. Make your ride a little faster and everyone wants to know what you did to tweak it, It's up to you if you want to let the other guys know, or wait till you get caught. As far going back to "stock" bodies the Monte Carlo this year would run away with every race!!! The Charger (a rolling brick) wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, the Fusion almost makes a good cup car. Remember in the late 60's when we started going areo? Mopar kicked Ass with the Superbird & Daytona, on the track 200+ no problem. FASTER IS BETTER. anyone going to Fontana on the 25/26th? I'll be there. :argue:

Havasu_Dreamin
02-14-2006, 10:19 AM
It seems they can't beat Ford in ingenuity so they have to win with politics.
Hasn't Chevy won more manufacturers championships than Ford?

AzMandella
02-14-2006, 10:43 AM
Hasn't Chevy won more manufacturers championships than Ford?
That may be true but have you noticed how much the Monte Carlo looks like a Taurus.I guess thats because Chevy designed it ehh.I've said it once and I'll say it again.There isn't much that Chevy has done that Ford didn't do first.Better to be an inovator than a duplicator.It's always easier to improve on someoneses mouse trap than come up with one on their own.

schiada96
02-14-2006, 10:47 AM
What about Roush and manifold gate on Marks car in 2004

schiada96
02-14-2006, 10:49 AM
you know where they got caught with the epoxy in there

pm069
02-14-2006, 12:31 PM
W.T.F. that AZ. sun gettin to you??? Wrong answer... try a bottle of vodka, if anything it looks like a Honda Accord? :rolleyes:

AzMandella
02-14-2006, 12:44 PM
W.T.F. that AZ. sun gettin to you??? Wrong answer... try a bottle of vodka, if anything it looks like a Honda Accord? :rolleyes:
Thats pretty funny since the NASCAR officials were making fun of the Dodge's and Chevy's because they fit the Ford templates to a T.They were even saying that the RT on the Dodge meant "Really a Taurus".But if you would like to pass that bottle of vodka I'd be glad to take a swig since it seem's that you have had entirely too much. :D

MOBrien
02-14-2006, 12:49 PM
Shiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttt
Who gives a flyin fock.......Let 'em race!
Put solid rocket boosters in those focken things to light up whenever you need to blow by the group for all I care. Bottom line is that most spectators want to see crazy speed, even crazier walk-away crashes, and could really give two hershey squirts about who tweaked what to get .193mph more than the next guy.
Someone's gonna win and someone's gonna lose and I've got my popcorn ready. :cry: :p :D I'm outta here to go watch real racing on PINKS! :rolleyes: :crossx:

Liberator TJ1984
02-14-2006, 02:07 PM
In the good old days before NASCAR was an organized corporation the boys were running moonshine into the dry counties/states/areas, where it was against the law D.B.A. CHEATING! It's all part of the game. Make your ride a little faster and everyone wants to know what you did to tweak it, It's up to you if you want to let the other guys know, or wait till you get caught. As far going back to "stock" bodies the Monte Carlo this year would run away with every race!!! The Charger (a rolling brick) wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, the Fusion almost makes a good cup car. Remember in the late 60's when we started going areo? Mopar kicked Ass with the Superbird & Daytona, on the track 200+ no problem. FASTER IS BETTER. anyone going to Fontana on the 25/26th? I'll be there. :argue:
AND the Daytonas / Superbirds were outlawed soon after !!! :rolleyes:
That was some BS back then , Unfair my a$$ , They were TRUE STOCK cars...
not a bunch of chromemoly and aerospace connections :yuk:

HighRoller
02-14-2006, 03:15 PM
May 27, 2003: Fined $2,500 for using an unapproved refrigerant.
Damn!! NASCAR is getting a little too strict when they enforce how you keep your beer cold...Then again those fudge tunnelers Knaus and Johnson probably drink Merlot. Even Jeff Gordon looks manly next to those fairies.
As far as cheating, everyone "bends" the rules in NASCAR. EVERYONE. Like if they give you .250 on a measurement everyone will try to get .255 or .260 hoping NASCAR won't catch it. Subjective rules enforcement is how NASCAR influences the outcome of the racing. If two cars have modified carbs and they allow one to "slip through" inspection, they just gave someone an advantage. It's not that obvious, but you get the picture. Does it guarantee a win? No, but it adds up if you do it every week. And if you stop doing it then you run like Dale Jr.....