V drive bottoms

[Blown 472]

What is the diff between runner bottoms and flats and how do they ride and handle??

[Blown 472]

One more thing, driving a flat, I see these videos of them flipping, but then see pix of you guys flying them, is there a point where the boat becomes unstable at a certain speed or what is the deal with the flips??

[voodooCanoe]

What happens most is a flat will climb too high causing air to be let out of one side, usually the left due to prop rotation, causing the nose to drop and all the bad s**t to happen. A runner bottom gives a more stable platform and more air to be packed and released in a controlled manner.
Runners are much more stable than a true flat.

[dmontzsta]

Great info. And dont true flats corner better?

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

The difference between a runnerbottom and a true flat- A true flat is just that...flat across the last 52 inches or so of the bottom of the boat (some of the older flats actually have a very slight V). Runnerbottoms have air reliefs cut out of each side of the bottom (runners) varying in depth from boat to boat most being 5/8ths to 7/8ths of an inch. This leaves a pad in the middle (also varied in width between different hull makers) along with dropped chines to stabalize the ride. Just like most true flats the runner has a rocker that the boat rocks back on given enough power.
As to your crash reference, I dont know what videos your referring to but driver ability, sobriety, boat set up and water conditions are all possible contributors to an accident. Im unclear what you mean by flying the boat, I've seen guys hopping wildly or drivers hanging the boat on the ragged edge of safety before climbing and crashing.
I respectfully dissagree with Mr. Canoe about which type is more stable. By design I thing a properly set up straked true flat (Biesemeyer style) is the most stable. It has a larger liquid foot print combined with packed air and less rocker for great stability. I definately wouldn't want to race a runnerbottom in a circle race.
A lot of older style true flats are set up wrong and are prone to porpose, you see this commonly at the river. I believe this is why a lot of people think they are'nt very stable at speed but poor set-up can do that to any boat.
Just my 01 cent I'm no boat builder. :cool: :cool:

[voodooCanoe]

V-DRIVE, I agree the circle boats are very stable, but there is such a large differance between the two. Alot of the circle boats stability is made in the plate set up. creating a vacuum to hold the rear of the boat in place. But there is now way that a circle boat will take a set as easy and ride as stable as a runner bottom.
Now this is MY opinion only! Now, I wouldn't want to burn corners in one, but I haven't seen any ture flats laying down 170+ runs at the drags either.
Once again, this is MY opinion only and alot of factors such as what purpose it is being used for will play a large part it determining what is best. :confused:

[DansBlown73Nordic]

Not that im thinking of trying this But....What if you took a true flat and added a 5/8 runner down the middle of the boat.Say about 24 i.n. wide. Would you have a runner bottom or a pile of Shit? :confused: Im just curious.... wink

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by voodooCanoe:
But there is now way that a circle boat will take a set as easy and ride as stable as a runner bottom.
Now this is MY opinion only! Now, I wouldn't want to burn corners in one, but I haven't seen any ture flats laying down 170+ runs at the drags either.
I agree that from a dead stop a circle boat is much harder to set... even difficult. And your absolutely correct that the runnerbottom is a more efficient bottom due to less drag. I think the runnerbottom is much better suited to 170 mph than a true flat.
I dont how familiar you are with current circle boat racing, but the SS speed record is 121mph! Consider all the factors- 433 ci, 830cfm single 4 bbl, un-ported chevy cylender heads and intake, flat tappet camshaft. Pretty good for a true flat!! I know of a lot of blown runners that can't run that kind of speed. The lifting strakes and gull shaped plate settings give a similar response to a runnerbottom, both tunneling the air out.
I'll stick with my opinion on the stability issue and if you shoot me your address I'll hook you up with some video that may change your mind. :) Or not. :cool: :cool: Jerry

[Rexone]

Dans66Stevens:
Not that im thinking of trying this But....What if you took a true flat and added a 5/8 runner down the middle of the boat.Say about 24 i.n. wide. Would you have a runner bottom or a pile of Shit? :confused: Im just curious.... wink pile of shit. :D

[BGMAN203]

what he said. :D :D

[fastvdriver]

Just my 2 cents I have run a 78 biesemeyer for about 8 years ran the boat in the 10 sec. class (drags) also alot of river time the boat was very stable and alot of fun. I have just started running a 78 cole tr2. the biesesmeyer was a 400 lbs hull yes very light. the boat was very quick would actual run 9.80's in the 1/4 with 15 gallons of fuel. the plates had a gull wing set up once the boat took a set it was pretty stable although hard to get it to take a quick set. the boat would usally set by 1/2 track. the cole takes a set by the first bouy in the 1/4 mile. also much safer feeling. ran both boats with the same motor mph was almost the same the ET was 1 sec. slower in the cole due to the hull weighs in at 850LBS (ex top alky boat). with driving both boats the cole is a much more user friendly than the biesemeyer.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

fastvdriver:
Just my 2 cents I have run a 78 biesemeyer for about 8 years ran the boat in the 10 sec. class (drags) also alot of river time the boat was very stable and alot of fun. I have just started running a 78 cole tr2. the biesesmeyer was a 400 lbs hull yes very light. the boat was very quick would actual run 9.80's in the 1/4 with 15 gallons of fuel. the plates had a gull wing set up once the boat took a set it was pretty stable although hard to get it to take a quick set. the boat would usally set by 1/2 track. the cole takes a set by the first bouy in the 1/4 mile. also much safer feeling. ran both boats with the same motor mph was almost the same the ET was 1 sec. slower in the cole due to the hull weighs in at 850LBS (ex top alky boat). with driving both boats the cole is a much more user friendly than the biesemeyer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I started shooting V-Drive outings and circle races back in 96',I've ridden and driven both types of boats above and below 100 mph. I agree to how much easier it is to "set" a runnerbottom.
In less than perfect water I have found the modern circle boat (Biesemeyer true flat) to be much more stable.
Fast V-driver, have you ever tried the TR-2 in conditions that mimic a true circle race? We have a guy down here (Small Block Mike) that runs his Connelly runnerbottom at the drags @108 mph last time I talked to him .He is also well known for running full speed for miles at the river on nasty water. The boat gets loose often and looks like its ready to crash. I rode with him once and felt very safe even though I know the guys on shore were holding thier breath. eek!
Its rare to hear of a guy drag racing a biesemeyer! :cool:

[LeE ss13]

I don't know ... I think it's all relative to the enviroment as far as being user friendly. The Biesemeyer gets my vote when it's water like this for 5 miles.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/516/308ssra_parker0002.jpg
All kidding aside, the Biesemeyer has a lot less rocker in the bottom than the TR2. A circle boat will typically start a race from a 60-70mph roll (I don't think roll is the right word here), hence less rocker is needed. Like the original runner, the Hondo XH511. It needed 3/16th more rocker in it to make it take a set by the first bouy. You might want to try differnet plate setting on the Biesemeyer. I have never liked the ride with that gull wing setup. I think the down turn on the corners of the plate give it a looser ride. Just a though.

[fastvdriver]

I'll have to say the biesemeyer is a dryer ride than the cole in the rough water the cole seems to ride a little smoother in the small stuff but the ride is a little wet for the driver. I would have to say if I was going out to the big water 1 plus foot swells I'd have to take the biesemeyer to get me home.

[GofastRacer]

A circle boat and a drag boat are two totally different animals and each are made for their own enviernment!.. :rolleyes:

[blownmoney]

Like the original runner, the Hondo XH511 some one help me out here i thought the xh511 was a true flat?... am i wrong?...lil info if ya can fellas , thanx..