Machine tool financing

[wsuwrhr]

I turned down my last 5 figure job. No more. Lead time on a new machine is 4-5 weeks. Time to step up to a bigger machine. I wasn't interested in a payment, since everything else I own is paid for. At this point I think I can make the payment as long as I keep it busy.
I know a couple of you guys do commercial lending. My sales guy at Haas said I might get a better deal on the financing outside of Haas, so I will compare the competition.
If I wasn't selling my house, I think I would aquire the money there, probably the least painful.
Man that is nice, it will compliment my Mori-Seiki lathe well.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/vf31.jpg

[wsuwrhr]

Holy fock that's nice. Maybe you could add a room to it and live inside. :D
It is almost big enough, if it doesn't work out, believe me, at 80K, I will be living in it.

[wsuwrhr]

Anyone need parts made?

[Big Kahunaa]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/vf31.jpg
thats purdy

[wsuwrhr]

thats purdy
Thanks,
I would be nicer if it were on my floor though.
Brian

[Baja Big Dog]

Ive got two guys I have talked to on machine financing, Ill try to find them and PM ya...
If you go with outside funding are you gonna look at any repo's?

[wsuwrhr]

Ive got two guys I have talked to on machine financing, Ill try to find them and PM ya...
If you go with outside funding are you gonna look at any repo's?
Thanks,
Nope, can't find any repos. New machine, unless it was a very special case.
I take care of my tools, I don't want someone else's headaches.
Being in the machining business my whole life, I have always felt noone sells a machine that makes good parts or money.
Unless the history is known, it is too much of a gamble to me.
Brian

[Big Kahunaa]

Thanks,
I would be nicer if it were on my floor though.
Brian
only way to make nicer if it was in my shop and some one else paying for it after you get it make sure you post picks of all the kick ass parts you make

[ChumpChange]

When looking to finance a machine tool, just make sure you are actually speaking to somebody in the machine tool finance division. These specialized lenders know the residual and how to get rid of these machines if ever repossessed. They can offer lower rates because it's specialized and not bundled with all the other small ticket stuff.
Rates for small ticket finance/leasing right now is the high nines. That is either for new or used, it does not matter.
Just making one phone call, Machine Tool finance is in the high sixes low sevens. It will make a difference whether or not it is new or used and what exact machine with the machine tool finance division.
If you want an exact proposal, just let me know.
I know of a couple machine companies that were downsizing and selling off their equipment. I don't know what machines they were though but can always make a call.

[superdave013]

I have used Intech funding twice. Both times was smooth hassle free.

[wsuwrhr]

If you want an exact proposal, just let me know.
Without a doubt, Yes, let me know. You have my contact info.
I know of a couple machine companies that were downsizing and selling off their equipment. I don't know what machines they were though but can always make a call.
I would be interested, but it would have to be a special case.
What I want is right there, Haas VF3, with a side mount tool changer
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

I have used Intech funding twice. Both times was smooth hassle free.
Inked a shop again, yesterday in Mira Loma.
I need to heed my own encouragement and advice I have been giving you for two years SD.
Time to move up another level.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

only way to make nicer if it was in my shop and some one else paying for it after you get it make sure you post picks of all the kick ass parts you make
Thanks,
You guys think I make kick-ass parts now, you wouldn't believe what I am working with, you just WAIT to see what I can do with a modern tool.
You have no idea. :) :) :) :)
Brian

[superdave013]

Inked a shop again, yesterday in Mira Loma.
I need to heed my own encouragement and advice I have been giving you for two years SD.
Time to move up another level.
Brian
good, now you will have the space to keep your old machine until I'm ready for it. ;)
You will be happy to be able to go home and leave work at work.

[C.Fisher]

Two things to get if you can afford it, #1. being the side mount tool changer. #2. is the 10k spindle but I believe it is standard. Also see about spindle orientation. Not used alot but if you need any key ways done threw a bore its a nice add on to peck broach.
We run all Haas's here from Mini's up to a VF6 50. All of them umbrella tool changers except to VF6 which is a side mount. Biggest problem is chips in the changer with the umbrella style.
Overall the uptime on machine is great, problems we have encountered overtime has been stupid things like limit switched going out and monitors take crap. Haas finally updated there monitors which seem to be hassle free.
Good luck with your purchase

[gabe1]

nice!!:D
I have a vf1-2 and 3 you will be happy with it. I know of a shop who is selling a used one in the ball park of around 50 grand.

[wsuwrhr]

good, now you will have the space to keep your old machine until I'm ready for it. ;)
You will be happy to be able to go home and leave work at work.
1) Yes, possibly, not looking likely though if I have a building, pretty hard to sell a machine that makes money that is paid for.
2) Not likely, the arrangement works quite well actually. I like it alot more than when I had a shop away from home. Until I sell a house and get another garage going, it has to do.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Umbrella is a pain in the ass, I will absolutely not entertain buying a machine with an umbrella. If you gave me one, I would take it though.
Don't want or need 10K spindle, 7500K is fast enough.
Sp orientation is standard.
I setup one first and then two VF2's, they have been trouble free except the limit switches, I agree, I am now an expert at changing them anyway. haha
Parts prices and service have been better than my Kitamura.
I am a full fledged Haas nutswinger, even on a hot muggy summer day.
Brian
Two things to get if you can afford it, #1. being the side mount tool changer. #2. is the 10k spindle but I believe it is standard. Also see about spindle orientation. Not used alot but if you need any key ways done threw a bore its a nice add on to peck broach.
We run all Haas's here from Mini's up to a VF6 50. All of them umbrella tool changers except to VF6 which is a side mount. Biggest problem is chips in the changer with the umbrella style.
Overall the uptime on machine is great, problems we have encountered overtime has been stupid things like limit switched going out and monitors take crap. Haas finally updated there monitors which seem to be hassle free.
Good luck with your purchase

[EXTRMBT]

Matsuura's with NSK high speed heads :D

[Danhercules]

How bout 4th or 5th axis? :D :D
Just helpin ya spend you money and make killer parts!:)

[wsuwrhr]

nice!!:D
I have a vf1-2 and 3 you will be happy with it. I know of a shop who is selling a used one in the ball park of around 50 grand.
A VF-3 with a side mount tool changer?
If so I would be interested.
I will pm my contact to you
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

How bout 4th or 5th axis? :D :D
Just helpin ya spend you money and make killer parts!:)
Thank you,
It will be 4th axis "capable", meaning it has electronic controls for the axis, but I wont be purchasing the rotary table until I have a job for it.
Brian

[driverno8]

How about turning that sucker on and making billet bolt on grab handles for the Rhinos, etc. Everyone's putting cages on them. But it would be nice if I could mount a handle in a different location on the cage so my 2 year old could reach or even my 5'2" wife. I'm sure it's been done. But man it would nice to have some options out there. .02¢

[EXTRMBT]

Thought you guys might be interested. See Picture
Drill Dia. - .0087
RPM - 47K
each block - 37.5 mm x 37.5 mm
holes per block - 2150
total holes per part - 21,500

[superdave013]

Thought you guys might be interested. See Picture
Drill Dia. - .0087
RPM - 47K
each block - 37.5 mm x 37.5 mm
holes per block - 2150
total holes per part - 21,500
what's the cycle time per part?

[totenhosen]

Rates for small ticket finance/leasing right now is the high nines. That is either for new or used, it does not matter.
Just making one phone call, Machine Tool finance is in the high sixes low sevens. It will make a difference whether or not it is new or used and what exact machine with the machine tool finance division.
That high? We are doing some stuff on the 5 year TNR + 1% on the commercial side. Business is very competitive and lenders are stretching themselves thin. The credit score stuff usual comes in at prime + 1.25% up to 3.25% depending on the score.

[SummitKarl]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/vf31.jpg
Damn...nice Brian and a HAAS to boot..it just don't get any better than that:D
I had a buddy in S.D. that bought the (4 station) virtical center..something like 140 tool changer...poor guy was married to that machine to make the payments..but he made a go of it and is now making Helocopter engines on it in Oceanside Ca.
hope you get it Brian thats a NICE platform to work on;)

[HM]

Hey mr. macheeenist. Sent you a PM about some possible work. :D

[bfab3]

I work on machines and i know some salesmen. PM if you want ###

[wsuwrhr]

20K-30K RPM spindle mandatory.
Pneumatic spindles can run that fast, but otherwise, different machine needed.
Sweet part though.
Brian
Thought you guys might be interested. See Picture
Drill Dia. - .0087
RPM - 47K
each block - 37.5 mm x 37.5 mm
holes per block - 2150
total holes per part - 21,500

[wsuwrhr]

:D Buy HAAS and keep Americans employed !!!, plus they are major players in motorsports!!!:D
Isn't that what I said,
Even the electronics are USA made, I was shocked when I opened the cabinets.
Brian

[ChumpChange]

That high? We are doing some stuff on the 5 year TNR + 1% on the commercial side. Business is very competitive and lenders are stretching themselves thin. The credit score stuff usual comes in at prime + 1.25% up to 3.25% depending on the score.
High? It basically comes out to the same that you put. I think that P+3.25 is somewhat steep. Where did you end up landing yourself? Did you make the jump? I ditched US last Friday.

[wsuwrhr]

I could do those right now for you.
How about turning that sucker on and making billet bolt on grab handles for the Rhinos, etc. Everyone's putting cages on them. But it would be nice if I could mount a handle in a different location on the cage so my 2 year old could reach or even my 5'2" wife. I'm sure it's been done. But man it would nice to have some options out there. .02¢

[YeLLowBoaT]

80k at 8% is around 1600 a month( about 97k in total over the term of the loan) for 5 year and about 975 for 10 years( about 116.5k over the term).
just a FYI.

[wsuwrhr]

80k at 8% is around 1600 a month( about 97k in total over the term of the loan) for 5 year and about 975 for 10 years( about 116.5k over the term).
just a FYI.
90K, but you are pretty close on what I have estimated.

[YeLLowBoaT]

90K, but you are pretty close on what I have estimated.
damn, I was pretty close for a guess on the cost.
just wonder what would be the operating cost for one of these units in power and tooling? Something like 50 a hour?

[Kindsvater Flat]

Brian...
A buddy of mine bought a Haas the same time I got my stuff this spring. Apparently he was working on this project and has gone through all the patent stuff on it now. He's making custom steps and bed rails that will say whatever you want them to. Pretty neat to watch this thing work.
tuff-tek.com (http://tuff-tek.com)
http://tuff-tek.com/images/4.jpg

[wsuwrhr]

just wonder what would be the operating cost for one of these units in power and tooling? Something like 50 a hour?
I don't know exactly what you are asking.
Power used depends on the load, and it is not as much as you may think.
Tooling? Depends on how many are broken I guess.

[totenhosen]

High? It basically comes out to the same that you put. I think that P+3.25 is somewhat steep. Where did you end up landing yourself? Did you make the jump? I ditched US last Friday.
Well 5yr TNR +1 is below 6%.
I'm still here but got some more money, vacation, and promises. If the promises don't come true than I'm out. Where did you end up at?

[Froggystyle]

That is awesome Brian! What will this drop my delivery times to? ;)
You really do need a bigger, faster machine. I think this will benefit me as well...

[EXTRMBT]

Cycle time is up to 24hrs and sometimes more depending on how many holes, and hole size per block. Usually about 12hrs for each side. We have to drill from both sides since each side have different pockets and depths. The threw hole is the same. It sucks when a drill breaks. When that happens the part is scrap.:mad: :( :mad:
what's the cycle time per part?

[EXTRMBT]

20K-30K RPM spindle mandatory.
Pneumatic spindles can run that fast, but otherwise, different machine needed.
Sweet part though.
Brian
Our spindle is Pneumatic (NSK)

[wsuwrhr]

Our spindle is Pneumatic (NSK)
Yep, those things buzz.
Brian

[YeLLowBoaT]

I don't know exactly what you are asking.
Power used depends on the load, and it is not as much as you may think.
Tooling? Depends on how many are broken I guess.
what I was asking is what do you think it cost to run a hour. just kind of killing the cat... shit like that intrests me.

[wsuwrhr]

That is awesome Brian! What will this drop my delivery times to? ;)
You really do need a bigger, faster machine. I think this will benefit me as well...
Delivery times? I'll be cranking out enough Trident parts for 10 Revolutions a month.
You betcha pal.
You have seen what I can do with the equipment I have, just you wait to see what I can do with a modern CNC.
Brian

[rrrr]

I bought some Weathertech floor mats online today for my new F-250.....you know, those ones with the deep channels. Saw these pics on the website and found it interesting.
I guess they use their machines to fab molds for the mats. Must sell a lot of mats, LOL...:D
Hope you are successful in buying the masheen and getting some good jobs, Brian.
http://www.weathertech.com/assets/behindtech/GroupComp.jpg
http://www.weathertech.com/assets/behindtech/machine.jpg
http://www.weathertech.com/assets/behindtech/Five_Axis_Machine_72dpi.jpg

[wsuwrhr]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/11824_lg.jpg
Looks like it is a done deal, outside financing wasn't as good.
I stepped up a bit and bought a VF-4 instead. Price was just too close not to have the bigger machine.
Left a deposit.
7 weeks......
Brian

[Roaddogg 4040]

Congrats, Brian... Post some pictures of somoe of the stuff you make on it... Love the Billet Stuff...
Steve

[wsuwrhr]

Congrats, Brian... Post some pictures of somoe of the stuff you make on it... Love the Billet Stuff...
Steve
It will be at least two months, but will do.
Brian

[BADBLOWN572]

Congrats. :) Looking forward to seeing more pictures of metal flying. :)

[wsuwrhr]

Congrats. :) Looking forward to seeing more pictures of metal flying. :)
Will do.

[Boatlesss]

Congrat's, you got the VF4?
The price of the used equipment is so high with the HAAS that it makes no sense in looking at someones worn out stuff when new is less than 30% more.

[Boatlesss]

How much is the VF4?

[wsuwrhr]

Congrat's, you got the VF4?
The price of the used equipment is so high with the HAAS that it makes no sense in looking at someones worn out stuff when new is less than 30% more.
Thanks.
Agreed,
Few used machines are sold that make money. Sometimes you get lucky and walk into a repo, or know the history of a given machine. Otherwise it is a crapshoot. Not worth the risk to me.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

How much is the VF4?
The pucker-factor is well above the high-water mark.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Guess what was parked out front when I got to the shop this morning?
A brandie-new VF-4, that is what.
Got it all hooked up and waiting for HAAS to come by at 7 Friday morning for the start-up.
Bedtime, I only worked 14 hours today, sweet.
Pictures to follow, when I get a chance.
Brian

[OGShocker]

Guess what was parked out front when I got to the shop this morning?
A brandie-new VF-4, that is what.
Got it all hooked up and waiting for HAAS to come by at 7 Friday morning for the start-up.
Bedtime, I only worked 14 hours today, sweet.
Pictures to follow, when I get a chance.
Brian
Congrat's, Brian!!!
She looks good enough to sleep with!;)

[ColeTR2]

Nice Brian!

[wsuwrhr]

Threw some chips tonight for a bit after the spindle run-in and I set the table on and got the machine ready to make parts.
Hopefully I get a few free minutes to post some pictures.
Brian

[totenhosen]

Nice to see that you got the machine!

[YeLLowBoaT]

So where are these pics? and when do I get to come over and play with it?:D

[e-ticket]

Brian,
Nice purchase and congrats. :)
Oh, thanks for keeping me employed. I do the printed circuit board design.
Have been there for 3 yrs now. It is really quite a company. Did you come to the main plant in Oxnard? 1,000,000 sq ft of amazing things to see. We put out about 1100 machines a month.
Good luck with the new machine!
I do wish out race cars would do a little better though! :eek:

[wsuwrhr]

You're welcome, I don't know if you read my past posts about the HAAS machines.
I was taken back when I opened the cabinet of one of the two VF-2's I set up, even the damn circuit boards are made in USA, I was set on a HAAS after that.
I was trying to get pictures of the build process but apparently HAAS's "build status" software is experiencing a snafu, at least that is the story I got. So I wasn't able to visit the plant.
The 1100 figure I had heard before and I couldn't believe it.
Thanks, I have been keeping it running so far.
I noticed some things already that I need to have HAAS come look at.
Brian
Brian,
Nice purchase and congrats. :)
Oh, thanks for keeping me employed. I do the printed circuit board design.
Have been there for 3 yrs now. It is really quite a company. Did you come to the main plant in Oxnard? 1,000,000 sq ft of amazing things to see. We put out about 1100 machines a month.
Good luck with the new machine!
I do wish out race cars would do a little better though! :eek:

[wsuwrhr]

So where are these pics? and when do I get to come over and play with it?:D
Haven't had a day off in 45 days, I will post as soon as I can I promise. I have been taking a bunch.
Anytime you want.

[wsuwrhr]

Nice to see that you got the machine!
Thanks