SBC oiling mods

[67weimann]

I am in the process of building a SBC for a jet and was curious to know if there are any oiling mods that should be done to a 400 SBC block to run in a jet??
4.155 bore X 4.00 stroke...:D
Hope to get a lot of help from you guys here being this is my first stroker motor I've built

[VAMI]

Yes Hyd Or Solid? Do Use Top End Resrtictors If Its A Solid And Also Drill The Center 3 Oil Feed Holes Through The Cam Tunnel And Into The Main Oil Galley. The Drill Size Is .290 Or The Next Size Up From Original Hole. Those Center Mains Have To Feed 2 Rods As The Ends Only Feed One.also Get A Small Base Circle Cam And Rods That Are Clearanced For The Cam They Will Hit And Block Will Also Hit .the Best Way To Build It If Its In The Budget Is Get A Tall Deck Dart Block Cam Is Raised .300 To Clear All Roating Parts.

[67weimann]

Plan on going solid roller. top end restrictors and drill the 3 oil feeds... got it. I know about small base circle cam and clearancing the block.
Tall deck .300 raised cam would allow for a 4.125 stroke...I already have a 400 block that has been all prepped awaiting bore and hone.

[maddad]

I'm no expert 67', but I did just finish a 400 based build. It looks like your combo is going to have limited room for con rod length, and will be RPM limited by that. With that in mind, the stock oiling setup should be fine.
Please keep in mind, I know just enough to break parts regularly.

[67weimann]

6.00 rod length...:confused:

[Aluminum Squirt]

Seems like this discussion is pretty well advanced into hard parts and stuff that is way over my head, but I'll through out some obvious things. You've probably thought of these already:
-Deburr all the oil drainbacks in the heads and lifter valley
-Paint the lifter valley so any oil drains down more quickly
-Aluminum Squirt

[67weimann]

-Paint the lifter valley so any oil drains down more quickly
-Aluminum Squirt
First time I've heard of this. I'll look into it. Do you use regular high heat engine paint?

[Aluminum Squirt]

I'm no engine builder but I've been told and read in a few books to grind out any burrs in the lifter valley and paint it up with something that will stick and withstand the heat (I think it was an epoxy paint but I don't have the article in front of me). It's not really too high heat of an area in the grand scheme of things. Its certainly not cool, but its no combustion chamber or header either. Anyway, the theory is that is seals up the small pores and lets the oil drain down faster, kind of like waxing your car. I think I read it in the old "How to Hot-Rod your SBC". Not sure if Smoky Yunich (sp?) wrote this book or just consulted on it. The book is way old school, not gonna see much about roller cams, synthetic oils etc in it but many of the principles are still rock solid even in 2007. Tons of little tricks in the book that are probably worth a few HP, highly recommended by me at least. Again I'm no engine builder, I just know enough to break my own parts and guide my friends in the direction of breaking their parts-Aluminum Squirt

[67weimann]

Sounds like I need to pick up that book and do some reading. I'm no engine builder either and I'm sure I'll do my share of breaking my own stuff:D

[VAMI]

i have that piant its red insulating varnish its used on the inside of electric motors (tool crib) is the brand its dark red in color.oil gets on that ,it is really slick.

[VAMI]

Seymour Makes The I Buy It By The Case Part#620-1525

[Moneypitt]

Use the BBC oil pump. The pick up on the SBC is 5/8, the BBC is 3/4, and the BBC hi vol has taller gears than the standard BBC....Look into Mellings newest pumps. Screw in pick up, gear axles supported in the cover, screw in relief, hex drive, and to a knats ass as far as clearances inside. If using a custom pan you may have to modify the pick up, (10777) or go with the press in (10778). These pumps are ready to use, right outa the box! And that is something that you won't find in most aftermarket pumps................MP

[thatguy]

What connecting rods are you using? I prefer using the 350 rods for less rod ratio (side loading). This easier on the internals and allows higher rpm mechanically.
Tip: If using the 350 rods, make certain to use SPS bolts. These have a greater relief angled on the bolt head to give more clearance at the cam lobes. Look at the bolt heads on whatever ones you use and make sure they have a large relief angle. Still may have to "touch" a couple with your prefered method of metal removal.
Check the clearances with a piece of coat hanger to get in those hard to measure spots! Yeah, I know, but it works.
Tommy

[67weimann]

Use the BBC oil pump. The pick up on the SBC is 5/8, the BBC is 3/4, and the BBC hi vol has taller gears than the standard BBC....Look into Mellings newest pumps. Screw in pick up, gear axles supported in the cover, screw in relief, hex drive, and to a knats ass as far as clearances inside. If using a custom pan you may have to modify the pick up, (10777) or go with the press in (10778). These pumps are ready to use, right outa the box! And that is something that you won't find in most aftermarket pumps................MP
Thanks for the heads up. So a sbc/bbc oil pumps are interchangeable or do you have to modify the bb pump to fit on a sb?

[Moneypitt]

Thanks for the heads up. So a sbc/bbc oil pumps are interchangeable or do you have to modify the bb pump to fit on a sb?
Bolts right on......However, Mellings offers one for the SBC as well. Check it out, maybe the same pump.....But those (107?? series) are the only pumps I've seen that are ready to run.....The others need to be re worked.......MP

[kcvega]

IMO do not use restrictors to the lifters! Everyone has there own opinion and that's mine. I ruined a set of rollers by using restrictors. There's not much oil pumped at idle and I believe there is still plenty to the mains without restrictors. I've ran the same crank and rods with no main or rod bearing issues for about 7 years now in my car. Went through a few stock blocks before I bought a Dart. This is in a street/strip car with lots of nitrous.

[67weimann]

Bolts right on......However, Mellings offers one for the SBC as well. Check it out, maybe the same pump.....But those (107?? series) are the only pumps I've seen that are ready to run.....The others need to be re worked.......MP
Good to know. Thanks for the advice...:D

[GofastRacer]

First time I've heard of this. I'll look into it. Do you use regular high heat engine paint?
I've painted blocks for a lot of years with no problems until I got one that for some reason had some kind of reaction to the paint and started to come off, fortunately I caught it in time on a tear down for inspection, otherwise I would have ended up with spun bearings!. After that I refuse to paint a block inside, I'll take the time and polish the valley and timing cover area!.. Just something to think about!..

[GofastRacer]

IMO do not use restrictors to the lifters! Everyone has there own opinion and that's mine. I ruined a set of rollers by using restrictors. This is in a street/strip car with lots of nitrous.
It is not the restrictors that caused your lifter problems, being on the street you're doing a lot of idling and that is the cause, this has always been a problem restrictors or not with roller lifters, there's just not enough oil to the rollers at idle, if you use the new pressureized lifters then there is always oil to the rollers even at idle!..

[Moneypitt]

It is not the restrictors that caused your lifter problems, being on the street you're doing a lot of idling and that is the cause, this has always been a problem restrictors or not with roller lifters, there's just not enough oil to the rollers at idle, if you use the new pressureized lifters then there is always oil to the rollers even at idle!..
What is this thing you call idling.........?? How do you do it, and what is the reason for it?..........And I will never paint the inside of any block........Ray

[GofastRacer]

What is this thing you call idling.........?? How do you do it, and what is the reason for it?..........And I will never paint the inside of any block........Ray
Well, occationally on the street you do have to stop for a red light ya know!..:D

[maddad]

67weimann, a 6" rod 4" stroke leaves very little compression height on the piston for your ring package, if you're using a stock type block.
SA design has a book called "How to Build Big Inch Chevy Smallblocks".
It covers all the basics of squeezing the most CI from a smallblock.
Good luck with your project.

[kcvega]

It is not the restrictors that caused your lifter problems, being on the street you're doing a lot of idling and that is the cause, this has always been a problem restrictors or not with roller lifters, there's just not enough oil to the rollers at idle, if you use the new pressureized lifters then there is always oil to the rollers even at idle!..
I will have to say you are wrong. It wiped out the cam and lifters within a couple hundred miles. I bought new lifters and cam, changed nothing else, pulled the restrictors and drove many thousands of miles trouble free. I've never put restrictors in another motor again. That's my experience anyways.

[67weimann]

67weimann, a 6" rod 4" stroke leaves very little compression height on the piston for your ring package, if you're using a stock type block.
Accordng to JE specs... pistons are designed for a 9.000 deck height leaves 1.000 compression distance.
Good or no good. Is this gonna cause reliability issues?

[67weimann]

Moneypitt...Looked into the Melling oil pumps. They make a SBC pump with 3/4 pick up and all the goodies the same as the BBC one. Now the question is, 10% or 25% more volume than stock?
Still a little confused as to the restrictors. Good or bad?

[GofastRacer]

I will have to say you are wrong.
If you say so!..:rolleyes:

[Moneypitt]

Moneypitt...Looked into the Melling oil pumps. They make a SBC pump with 3/4 pick up and all the goodies the same as the BBC one. Now the question is, 10% or 25% more volume than stock?
Still a little confused as to the restrictors. Good or bad?
The volume depends on several things. How loose/tight is the bottom end? Rod side clearance? Oil weight? And use.......I would go with the 10 percent. I don't like excessive oil pressure, and volume adds to pressure. If you're gonna wring this things neck, there are alot of other things to think about besides oil restrictors. Pan volume is critical regardless, as is an oil cooler. With those two things in mind, either oil pump will work, with or without the restrictors.....As Art mentioned, use the pressure oiled type rollers and don't worry about them...........That said, the PS 89 has never had a valve train failure and I use the restrictors in it. It is a race only application however and never idles. Never............It does run 7500+ for 5 miles a heat, 4 heats or more per weekend......AND it DOES have a rev kit............MP

[maddad]

Accordng to JE specs... pistons are designed for a 9.000 deck height leaves 1.000 compression distance.
Good or no good. Is this gonna cause reliability issues?
That little height will need support for the oil ring where it crosses the pin bore and put the top ring much closer to the top of the piston than you want it for long runs at high load. Not such a big deal at the drag strip, but not ideal for a smallblock you want to wring out a bit.

[67weimann]

That little height will need support for the oil ring where it crosses the pin bore and put the top ring much closer to the top of the piston than you want it for long runs at high load. Not such a big deal at the drag strip, but not ideal for a smallblock you want to wring out a bit.
They do have oil rail support. And explain why it is not good to have the top ring that close?

[67weimann]

If you're gonna wring this things neck, there are alot of other things to think about besides oil restrictors. Pan volume is critical regardless, as is an oil cooler.
I plan on running it hard and also plan to use the largest pan I can get and use an oil cooler.

[maddad]

They do have oil rail support. And explain why it is not good to have the top ring that close?
It is better for endurance to keep the top ring further from the heat at the very top of the piston. That heat is tough on the top ring and can cause it to distort and lose seal, and the pin can also suffer by being so close.
A little less stroke may take you away from that 434, but will let you use a shorter rod and off the shelf pistons with better ring spacing. 3.8, 3.85, and,3.875 will still get you 420+. Then you can support the oil rail but get the top ring and pin down.

[67weimann]

Am I heading in the right direction. I used the old die grinder to open up the holes in the front of the block level with the lifter valley floor.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/Roll_me_over/000_0578.jpg
I also opened up the oil return holes in the back of the block...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/Roll_me_over/000_0577.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/Roll_me_over/000_0580.jpg
Quick question though. I've read that you should clean up the oil passage where the oil pump bolts on to the rear main cap. I've heard to make the groove deeper and smooth out where the bolt comes through, Question is, how much can I grind out of it and can I grind too much or is there any other precautions I should take in this area?
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/Roll_me_over/000_0567.jpg

[Moneypitt]

The key word here is "blend". Just sorta blend the passages to make a smooth transistion. You dont have to remove a lot of material, just smooth it out a bit........MP

[67weimann]

Gotcha...:D

[maddad]

Sorry about the quality, but this is a picture of a picture showing the rounding off of the sharp edges and flow restrictions at the rear cap.
No real work, more like detailing.

[67weimann]

Hope I didn't f... it up too bad:D
Hard to see in the picture but, the bolt hole still is raised the same as before, just smoothed it all out...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/Roll_me_over/000_0587.jpg