Horsepower Rumors

[pw_Tony]

What's the most horsepower someone, or anyone has made with Cast Iron OVAL factory heads on a BBC?
My friend's tellin me he makes 700hp out of a 468BBC and stock way ported OVAL heads so I wasn't sure if I should put my BS boots on.
So just wanted to hear some rumors? Anyone?

[lucky]

700 is not bull shit with factory heads ( squareports ) and a blower :D

[BrendellaJet]

HB Jet is making over 700 with cast ported heads on a 496 I believe....

[Blown 472]

HB Jet is making over 700 with cast ported heads on a 496 I believe....
On a hot dyno.

[motormonkey]

If the ovals are somthing like bb2o extras

[SmokinLowriderSS]

700 is possible, but will entail a lot of good porting work, and very careful parts selection.

[BrendellaJet]

On a hot dyno.
your jealousy isn't becoming. Fact of the matter is the enging kicks ass and propels his boat(s) to ranges where that power is needed to go those speeds, end of story.

[pw_Tony]

your jealousy isn't becoming. Fact of the matter is the enging kicks ass and propels his boat(s) to ranges where that power is needed to go those speeds, end of story.
????????

[MikeF]

Specs=>
4.530" Bore x 4.000" Stroke = 515.8 CID BBC
Brodix #3-Extra CNC'd by Brodix
supposedly 13:1 CR, but only 155 cranking psi
2 1/8 Headers
RPM____TQ_____HP
5500__613.4__642.3
5600__610.6__651.0
5700__605.8__657.5
5800__607.6__671.0
5900__606.3__681.1
6000__601.8__687.5
6100__596.9__693.2
6200__590.6__697.2
6300__584.6__701.2
6400__574.7__700.3
6500__565.5__699.9
6600__555.6__698.2
6700__543.0__692.6
6800__536.7__694.9
6900__527.4__692.8
note=> i've had Brodix 3Extra CNC'd make 900+ HP
on other Engine Combos
another better matched Engine Combo was this Specs=>
GM cast-iron oval Ports
almost maxed-out 2.300/1.880 valves
4.350" Bore x 4.250" Stroke = 505.3 CID
9.478:1 actually CC's CompRatio w/ EXXON 992 prem pump gas
Hooker Headers 2 1/8" x 32" Collectors= 3.500 x 18"
165 cranking psi
Holley HP-1050 Carb out-of-box
RPM____TQ_____HP
5500__602.6__631.0
5600__608.8__649.1
5700__604.2__655.7
5800__603.6__666.6
5900__597.5__671.2
6000__590.5__674.6
6100__584.0__678.3
6200__577.4__681.6
6300__571.3__685.3
6400__566.0__689.7
6500__562.2__695.8
6600__558.9__702.4
6700__554.7__707.6
6800__546.8__707.9
6900__532.9__700.1
7000__518.4__690.9
.................................................. ...
Looks like it can be done.:)

[BrendellaJet]

????????
in response to the hot dyno comment.

[motormonkey]

Mike F. Im curios on how you got the head flow out of gm ovals for those hp#s and at such a low rpm. Its amazing that that valve size made it without water. :eek: Just curios.

[Marty Gras]

I have yet to find "any kind of customer who would spend THAT kind of money on those kind of parts, to make that kind of power". "Hand massaged, one off, triple throw down parts can make power", "who's paying for all this NASA stuff"? Over the last 35 or so years, my customers wanted "overkill for peanuts", and 'oval port' heads were for the BUDGET GUYS. Look, the "pinch down ports" are not new, Arias Hemi heads use that design. Velocity VS Mass flow and you build your motor to what you have. Ford guys will tell you 'velocity' and BB Chevy guys cry 'monster cfm @ low vacuum'. Back in the 1980's our shop could build one of those 330HP jet boat motors up to 508HP @ 5800 RPMs. 461" motor!!! We did use all of the original motor parts, including the oval port heads. We got over 520 lbs of torque, but the motor needed 97 unleaded fuel. We sold this "rebuild" for $4200.00 plus R&R. Guys were crying about the price. So now we talk about much more power from the same heads, and I ask---- HOW MUCH MONEY? Roller cams $$$, monster port work $$$, over 10 to 1 compression $$$, intake?, headers? I love to hear about guys going faster and making more power, but at what cost? Who will purchase your "$mega bux$ oval port motor"?

[YeLLowBoaT]

If it was on ebay... it really makes 350hp... :D

[SmokinLowriderSS]

If it was on ebay... it really makes 350hp... :D
But the boat it's in goes 100 mph. :D

[MikeF]

Mike F. Im curios on how you got the head flow out of gm ovals for those hp#s and at such a low rpm. Its amazing that that valve size made it without water. :eek: Just curios.
The engines are not mine, but I believe the #'s as they are printed. The guy that puts this oval port engine together is a great head porter/engine combination builder. There is something to be said about making it all work together!:)
Granted...they are not a 468's, but I'm sure if you turn more rpm w/a 468 w/ the right combo......you'll see the over 700hp you seek.

[cfm]

What's the most horsepower someone, or anyone has made with Cast Iron OVAL factory heads on a BBC?
My friend's tellin me he makes 700hp out of a 468BBC and stock way ported OVAL heads so I wasn't sure if I should put my BS boots on.
So just wanted to hear some rumors? Anyone?
Good chance he is full of BS, but you never know. Those types of engines / power levels are out there - just not many.
For mega dollar low compression high hp oval port builds look at NHRA SuperStock. I believe thay are over 800hp now, or close too it. Incredible power and speeds for what they are limited to, but you have to have mega pockets and not just any good head porter to get up to that level.
To me, the term 'head porting' is too generic. It gets thrown around way too much. When I here 'ported and polished' I don't listen unless done by a head porter I know of and if the vehicle/boat/etc absoulutely flies. LOL.

[cfm]

Specs=>
4.530" Bore x 4.000" Stroke = 515.8 CID BBC
Brodix #3-Extra CNC'd by Brodix
supposedly 13:1 CR, but only 155 cranking psi
2 1/8 Headers
:
13:1 motor that runs on 87-89 octane. Hmmm. Nope, I wouldn't believe the 13:1 / 155 psi thing either. Oh, the HP doesn't support that either.
Oh well. LOL.

[Sleeper CP]

13:1 motor that runs on 87-89 octane. Hmmm. Nope, I wouldn't believe the 13:1 / 155 psi thing either. Oh, the HP doesn't support that either.
Oh well. LOL.
I'm not sure he claimed that the 13:1 engine ran on 89 octane.The 9.5:1 engine runs on pump gas. Just for reference my old 512 BBF w/FordMotorsport A-460 heads and 10.2:1 comp. made 710 HP at 6,000 and 661 trq. at 5,000. (I know it's a different animal, but just shows what good airflow can do for you with out alot of compression)
700 HP out of a 468 is 1.5 hp/cu.in. Can you get approx. 350 cfm out of those oval port heads? If you can, his dyno numbers aren't out of the question?
I'll ask a couple of guy's I know today what they got out of the stompin 470 BBC they built a few years back. I'll get back to ya.
Sleeper CP

[cfm]

I'm not sure he claimed that the 13:1 engine ran on 89 octane.Sleeper CP
I claimed that. LOL. Based off the 155psi cranking. So, I was going against the 13:1 or the cranking compression or his compression guage. That's all.
Sorry for the sidetrack.

[WannabeRacing]

Possible- yes.
Probable- no.
To do that you have to do some really nice work to the heads and have some great parts and some experience with matching of just the right parts for the combination.

[pw_Tony]

I'm not sure he claimed that the 13:1 engine ran on 89 octane.The 9.5:1 engine runs on pump gas. Just for reference my old 512 BBF w/FordMotorsport A-460 heads and 10.2:1 comp. made 710 HP at 6,000 and 661 trq. at 5,000. (I know it's a different animal, but just shows what good airflow can do for you with out alot of compression)
700 HP out of a 468 is 1.5 hp/cu.in. Can you get approx. 350 cfm out of those oval port heads? If you can, his dyno numbers aren't out of the question?
I'll ask a couple of guy's I know today what they got out of the stompin 470 BBC they built a few years back. I'll get back to ya.
Sleeper CP
Maybe if Geoff ported his heads:D

[Sleeper CP]

Sorry for the sidetrack.
Oh, I've been known to do that. That's fine, just didn't want any confusion.
Sleeper CP

[Sleeper CP]

Maybe if Geoff ported his heads:D
I know those were Brodix Alum. heads thay did for the 470 CU. In EngineMaster deal. But, I forget the HP #'s we were looking at but I'll find out today. They made a bunch with a solid mechanical cam.
Is your friend running a roller cam ? and do you know any more about his combo?
Sleeper CP

[pw_Tony]

I know those were Brodix Alum. heads thay did for the 470 CU. In EngineMaster deal. But, I forget the HP #'s we were looking at but I'll find out today. They made a bunch with a solid mechanical cam.
Is your friend running a roller cam ? and do you know any more about his combo?
Sleeper CP
No idea right now, just stated he dynoed over 700hp with factory oval port heads, lots of porting. And made over 500Rwhp in the truck the motors in:devil:
Aren't you supposed to be working or something?:D

[Sleeper CP]

No idea right now, just stated he dynoed over 700hp with factory oval port heads, lots of porting. And made over 500Rwhp in the truck the motors in:devil:
Aren't you supposed to be working or something?:D
Now that I've done a little research on the subject I am really interested in his total combo. Cam,intake,cfm's of heads and compression. If you want to see how hard it is to make 700 HP with 470 Cu.in's check out EngineMaters.com and read the info on year number 2 (2003). They were running flat tappet cams and 91 octane, but there were some damn trick engines. Crower's failed on the dyno but we made 621 HP on 7 cylinders. That about matches the 695-700 peak we were seeing on the dyno at the ranch when it was healthly the day before.
So I'm real interested in his total combo, find out please. Now I'll get back to work.
Sleeper CP

[ck7684]

I heard a rumor of a guy making 1500 on a 396...;)

[motormonkey]

If this is true ,the amount of work in those heads would be amazing. The cam specs would be interesting, considering the low compression and the need for at least .700 lift. The bore choke on the valve at 2.300 and the short turn work needed, plus the head choke. :eek: Ive seen tounged square ports make similar #s but not ovals.

[pw_Tony]

Here are some motors that are in the 700hp range under 470ci...
but I wouldnt say they're factory oval port heads...
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/challenge/2003/0404phr_emc/

[MikeF]

If this is true ,the amount of work in those heads would be amazing. The cam specs would be interesting, considering the low compression and the need for at least .700 lift. The bore choke on the valve at 2.300 and the short turn work needed, plus the head choke. :eek: Ive seen tounged square ports make similar #s but not ovals.
I ommitted the cam specs on both engines.:devil:
Tounged square ports work well, but I think because of the intrusion of the rocker stud in the port, not nearly as good (opinion) as the ovals done correctly for a small c.i. BBC. The port is much more uniform.
Those oval port brodix heads on the enginemasters mills are not your typical "low port" variety. Look carefully. Nice short turn!

[pw_Tony]

I ommitted the cam specs on both engines.:devil:
Tounged square ports work well, but I think because of the intrusion of the rocker stud in the port, not nearly as good (opinion) as the ovals done correctly for a small c.i. BBC. The port is much more uniform.
Those oval port brodix heads on the enginemasters mills are not your typical "low port" variety. Look carefully. Nice short turn!
Yes they aren't the typical "low port variety"... but only two of them made over 700hp, one chevy and one dodge, and they aren't limited to heads or compression....
So I still find it hard to believe a Factory Oval Port head can produce over 700hp if the best builders in the nation can barely break 700hp with aluminum aftermarket heads

[Warp Speed]

So I still find it hard to believe a Factory Oval Port head can produce over 700hp if the best builders in the nation can barely break 700hp with aluminum aftermarket heads
It can be done, but I will go out on a limb and say that it usualy isn't going to happen out of someones garage (pump gas compression). I would guess someone has a "Good" dyno to be making those numbers often.
They could be made into a big, decent flowing port, but anyone who has extensively ported cast iron would ask.....WHY????:confused:
As mentioned above, these guy's spend a TON of hours and money perfecting there combo's to compete in this competition. These engines could make that kind of power, but would be very limited in the width of the power band.
It is not impossible, but except for some class racing that required it, what's the point? You could make a hell of alot more with alot less time, money and aggravation invested! ;)

[River Rat 005]

It can be done, but I will go out on a limb and say that it usualy isn't going to happen out of someones garage (pump gas compression). I would guess someone has a "Good" dyno to be making those numbers often.
They could be made into a big, decent flowing port, but anyone who has extensively ported cast iron would ask.....WHY????:confused:
As mentioned above, these guy's spend a TON of hours and money perfecting there combo's to compete in this competition. These engines could make that kind of power, but would be very limited in the width of the power band.
It is not impossible, but except for some class racing that required it, what's the point? You could make a hell of alot more with alot less time, money and aggravation invested! ;)
AH!!!! For the cool factor....the dare to be different....they say it can't be done..... Some people will spend anything for it.

[Sleeper CP]

Here are some motors that are in the 700hp range under 470ci...
but I wouldnt say they're factory oval port heads...
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/challenge/2003/0404phr_emc/
Thanks for posting that link. I don't know how to do all of that trick stuff yet.
Is your friends truck a drag race truck? I talked to Geoff yesterday, my 565 is at his shop he had to get my new intake manifold to fit properly. The engine should finally be on the dyno next week. I was going to tell you how many CFM's he said the factory oval can flow, but I just drew a blank, damn. I think he said if you can get 300 cfm's someone has done a hell of alot of work( 300 won't support 700 HP). He was interested what the entire package is also. When you read the EngineMasters info you realize how hard it is to make that kind of power.
Sleeper CP

[motormonkey]

Factory ovals are good but will not support 700hp N/A no nitrous,the math will not add up. Engine masters are a dyno motor only with rules that make it not really a real world comparison. Its a contest for technology,research and bragging rights. To think you could copy some of those combos is not practical for money and and time.:D

[pw_Tony]

Thanks for posting that link. I don't know how to do all of that trick stuff yet.
Is your friends truck a drag race truck? I talked to Geoff yesterday, my 565 is at his shop he had to get my new intake manifold to fit properly. The engine should finally be on the dyno next week. I was going to tell you how many CFM's he said the factory oval can flow, but I just drew a blank, damn. I think he said if you can get 300 cfm's someone has done a hell of alot of work( 300 won't support 700 HP). He was interested what the entire package is also. When you read the EngineMasters info you realize how hard it is to make that kind of power.
Sleeper CP
Is your 565 going in your boat? My buddy's truck is a pro street truck. The new manifold wouldn't fit? Did he have to mill it down or something? Haven't talked to Geoff in a long time, kinda just up and left when I had too, wasnt the right thing to do.
But I did see John a little while ago at the Big 5 Qualacomm swapmeet. 300cfm takes a lot of work huh? Hmmm still looking into it but can't believe too much

[Sleeper CP]

. And made over 500Rwhp in the truck the motors in:devil:
If it made 500 rwhp at a 29% drivetrain loss that would be 700 at the flywheel. With a hi-performance auto tranny is that a reasonable drivetrain loss? I would guess so, but I don't know enough about chassis dyno's to be certain. I'm sure someone else does though. I still want to know what his cam, intake and comp are. As someone else said " It's possiable, but not very probable" After reviewing the EngineMaster engine's I'd be more apt to start searching for the BS boots you asked about.:D
On the 565" , yes for the boat. Geoff milled .090 off the bottom of the new manifold to get it to fit and he had to clearance all of the exhaust push rods; the new T&D 1.8 shaft rockers caused a little problem with clearance. While it was there he pulled the FordMotorsport A-460 heads off he did for me 6-7years ago and applied some new knowledge to them.
Sleeper CP

[pw_Tony]

If it made 500 rwhp at a 29% drivetrain loss that would be 700 at the flywheel. With a hi-performance auto tranny is that a reasonable drivetrain loss? I would guess so, but I don't know enough about chassis dyno's to be certain. I'm sure someone else does though. I still want to know what his cam, intake and comp are. As someone else said " It's possiable, but not very probable" After reviewing the EngineMaster engine's I'd be more apt to start searching for the BS boots you asked about.:D
On the 565" , yes for the boat. Geoff milled .090 off the bottom of the new manifold to get it to fit and he had to clearance all of the exhaust push rods; the new T&D 1.8 shaft rockers caused a little problem with clearance. While it was there he pulled the FordMotorsport A-460 heads off he did for me 6-7years ago and applied some new knowledge to them.
Sleeper CP
Cause they were rubbing against the head or he sleeved the push rod clearance in the head?(not sure of the real term)

[Sleeper CP]

The heads are new to this engine. Yes they were rubbing on the heads, down the tubes so he opened the tubes up.
Sleeper CP

[cfm]

Yes they aren't the typical "low port variety"... but only two of them made over 700hp, one chevy and one dodge, and they aren't limited to heads or compression....
So I still find it hard to believe a Factory Oval Port head can produce over 700hp if the best builders in the nation can barely break 700hp with aluminum aftermarket heads
Quote the EMC article linked to and referred to above:
"Final score is a combination of the horsepower and torque averages between our target rpm levels of 3,000 and 6,500."
Those challenges are usually limited by rpm. If you can sustain torque at a higher rpm you will get a ton more horsepower.
If you go to a NHRA SuperStock race you will find many variety and sizes of motors spinning 8k,9k,10k, and maybe a little more. It's a great day of racing, watching, and listening if you ever can get to one.
Many 468's out their making 800+ with well ported, but not exotic ported AFR's, Canfields, Brodix's, BMF's, and etc small port rect heads. Their are some 522's going over 1000hp with heavy ported 340-360cc heads.
RPM's is a huge factor. That's why we really need to take into consideration the rpm's a certain motor makes it's hp at. Not just what the hp is. Especially in boats.

[Marty Gras]

What's the most horsepower someone, or anyone has made with Cast Iron OVAL factory heads on a BBC?
My friend's tellin me he makes 700hp out of a 468BBC and stock way ported OVAL heads so I wasn't sure if I should put my BS boots on.
So just wanted to hear some rumors? Anyone?
I believe he asked about FACTORY OVAL PORT BBChevy HEADS! Not aftermarket! Horsepower is one thing, but useable horsepower/torque (for your application) is another story. Yes, many small motors can run big RPMs with oval port heads, is that power adapable for your use? Can you make that same power FOR LESS MONEY with different parts? I think when Penske went racing Ramblers in Trans Am, he proved that "if you throw enough money at something, it will eventually end up being competitive"! The question was HORSEPOWER!, and not "useable power"! I feel that oval ports can make great TORQUE for most BB motors, but it's up to YOU on how they are used. "Let's throw 35K at a 740HP oval port motor". Or just build an "out of the box" large port motor that will do the same for 17K! You were talkin' horsepower and not torque!

[Marty Gras]

"I like boat racing, not dyno racing!"

[fc-pilot]

"I like boat racing, not dyno racing!"
AMEN!
Paul

[Sleeper CP]

"I like boat racing, not dyno racing!"
So do I. I like all kinds of racing but the last I checked Warren Johnson,Billy Glidden,Hendricks Motorsports,Penskie,Ferrari, Honda, Yamaha and John Force to name a few start on the dyno and finish on the track. ;)
Everyone that reads this thread we could all retire on the NASCAR guys dyno budgets. :D :)
We are all guessing on the guys combination for his 700 HP oval port. It would be interesting to find out his complete combo. It would be a surprise to me if he built a 7,500 rpm 468 with oval ports that would have to flow over 340 cfm's to achieve his claimed #'s.
Sleeper CP

[fc-pilot]

So do I. I like all kinds of racing but the last I checked Warren Johnson,Billy Glidden,Hendricks Motorsports,Penskie,Ferrari, Honda, Yamaha and John Force to name a few start on the dyno and finish on the track. ;)
Everyone that reads this thread we could all retire on the NASCAR guys dyno budgets. :D :)
I am not questioning that one bit. A dyno is a great tool. It is just that, one of the many tools we can use to help find optimum performance for our vehicles. The end result is the big key, if your toy gets beat by someone that spent half as much and makes less power then what good did the tool do us?
I am trying to get at the fact that I could build two engines and have to one that makes less power be the one that performs better. I like dyno's and what they can do for me. I just chose to brag about the on track performance.
Paul
(I am not trying to slam on anybody here, I am just trying to point out that dyno sheets are cool, but they don't power your boat.)

[Sleeper CP]

(I am not trying to slam on anybody here, I am just trying to point out that dyno sheets are cool, but they don't power your boat.)
True enough. It's one more tool that when used correctly can give you the advantage on race day. But you might still get beat by a guy that takes his time to tune on the water and gets his boat set up correctly.
Sleeper CP

[fc-pilot]

But you might still get beat by a guy that takes his time to tune on the water and gets his boat set up correctly.
Sleeper CP
Could not have said it better myself.
Paul

[cstraub]

I have a customer that builds engines for a pull truck class limited to 470CID, flat tappet cams, and a 4150 modified carb. He has 2 customers with 049's that are making 690 and 715 HP at around 7800 rpm. Now these are 20K OEM headed engines with $4K of extensive port work including welded and reshaped ports. In addition these engines have 14.5 and 15 to 1 compression with custom chamber matched pistons.
So is it possible, yes but bring out the wallet. Is it practical. No....

[Sleeper CP]

Chris,
Thanks for the useful information. As other's have said" It is possible, but it's going to cost a bunch and it certainly is not your everyday shop build."
Sleeper CP

[wsm9808]

There is a ton of BBC info on the Chevelles.com site. I think some of the guys over there worship the factory ovals. There is a handfull of guys running 10 flat and better with factory ovals in 3800# pound chevelles.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182264&highlight=oval+port here is a link to one thread. Search "oval port" and you will get more reading than youll ever have time for.