Friggin' IMCO is pissing me off :(

[DILLIGAF]

So, earlier this summer both of my RAMs on my full hydraulic steering went out. The pump also. IMCO blamed it on me keeping it in the water and the buildup that occurs :(. They charged for the repairs that Savage did for me but Bob at Shockwave went ahead and offered to pay for it as the boat was only one year old.
About a month ago another RAM went out :(. Yes, of course one that they already repaired. They used the same damn excuse about the water and so forth and would not cover the repairs...AGAIN! Bob graciously N/C the repairs and I am taking it down to Savage tomorrow AM to re-install it.
I only keep my boat in the water for 3-4 days at a time and try to keep it clean at all times. Yes, I know buildup can make it hard on the rubber seals for the RAM's but GD it this is ridiculous.
If IMCO can't build a product that can sit 3-4 days at a time in the water THEIR product is defective.
If this happens again I will tell everybody high/low about it.
Whatever happened to standing behind your product? They obviously have NOT read the friggin' book :( Maybe AJ at Savage or Bob at Shockwave can send them a copy of their book.
Rant over.....for now!
Thank you AJ and Bob for helping me out and getting me taken care of. I appreciate the help and will of course continue to send people your way when help is needed.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH THEIR IMCO SETUP?

[KineticoH20]

I can't believe Imco decided to take that route instead of just offering good PR and backing up thier 1 yr old product. That will make me think twice about using thier ram steering systems. It makes me sick when companies try to blame warranty issues on anything other than product failure. I could'nt imagine telling one of my customers that the the warranty is worthless because we think that to be the case. Just goes to show you if you piss off a customer bad enough , they will tell everyone they know about it,, it's just bad business.

[KineticoH20]

OMG I just realized that I was sympathizing with a Clippers fan:eek: What's next monkeys flying out of my (.)

[yopengo]

Those dam quagga mussels eating your gaskets? :D

[DILLIGAF]

I can't believe Imco decided to take that route instead of just offering good PR and backing up thier 1 yr old product. That will make me think twice about using thier ram steering systems. It makes me sick when companies try to blame warranty issues on anything other than product failure. I could'nt imagine telling one of my customers that the the warranty is worthless because we think that to be the case. Just goes to show you if you piss off a customer bad enough , they will tell everyone they know about it,, it's just bad business.
For them, especially after the failure of the newly repaired RAM it would have been proper to just NC the damn thing. Again, Bob at Shockwave picked up the tab so it didn't cost me money. Just time off the water and running the boat back/forth between Havasu/Bullhead to get the repairs completed.

[DILLIGAF]

OMG I just realized that I was sympathizing with a Clippers fan:eek: What's next monkeys flying out of my (.)
LOL

[DILLIGAF]

Those dam quagga mussels eating your gaskets? :D
Hmmmmmm.......new twist but I hope IMCO doesn't hear about the mussles :)

[HM]

What the hell were you thinking that boat parts should be able to work in water? Next, you'll be trying to drive your car on the street!!!!

[rivercrazy]

Another example of how Shockwave consistently goes out of their way to keep their customers happy.
Sorry about the issues your having with IMCO......Not the first time I've heard of them not standing behind their products

[DILLIGAF]

Another example of how Shockwave consistently goes out of their way to keep their customers happy.
Sorry about the issues your having......
Agreed and thanks. Maybe I will see you at the regatta, unofficially of course :)

[KineticoH20]

What were you thinking keeping your boat in the water for 3-4 days at a time:hammer2: We all know 2 days is the limit:)

[DILLIGAF]

What were you thinking keeping your boat in the water for 3-4 days at a time:hammer2: We all know 2 days is the limit:)
I am sure that was itemized in small print on the warranty card. My bad :)

[UltraLucky]

Thats not right:idea: I thought we pay more for our boat products so they could stand up to the environment we use them in.

[andy01]

What a pain in the azz. I know they don't know how to drive boats either, seeing how they hosed us down one time. I have never had a problem with any of my steering rams, no I take that back I did one time with my M&M's on the Spectre. They had rusted. They said they had a bad set of castings and would ship them anywhere I wanted. I said GT Performance and they were there the very next day, I was shocked. Other then that never had a problem with my rams, but then again I have never had Imco rams.
On another note Bob @ Shockwave is a stand up guy and does stand behind his product.
Andy

[DILLIGAF]

Thats not right:idea: I thought we pay more for our boat products so they could stand up to the environment we use them in.
Agreed....I know I paid a lot more for the setup while the boat was being built. I am just glad I have a reputable builder backing me up on this.

[Jyruiz]

That sucks, glad you are being taken care of though.

[nodigg]

700 hours on my WPM External rams and no leaks. Something is NOT right about your rams? maybe the set-up? Anyone at Imco offerred to take a closer look yet? I don't wanna say too much cause so far..no leaks on my new ITS either:idea:
Tom, are you gonna get BLACKLISTED at IMCO?
Jordy, where are you?
Seriously, all this hassle sucks. Do I hear a new boat in your future?

[DILLIGAF]

700 hours on my WPM External rams and no leaks. Something is NOT right about your rams? maybe the set-up? Anyone at Imco offerred to take a closer look yet? I don't wanna say too much cause so far..no leaks on my new ITS either:idea:
Tom, are you gonna get BLACKLISTED at IMCO?
Jordy, where are you?
Seriously, all this hassle sucks. Do I hear a new boat in your future?
Could be :)

[nodigg]

:D Subtle highlight job. Sent you a text msg regarding boat names. You comin down today? Wanna get on the water?

[Mandelon]

I think that IMCO thinks their shit don't stink.
But it sounds like the rams they sell do. :sqeyes:
All you can do is warn them. Be sure and get some emails of the owners and managers so we can flood their email boxes with hundreds of emails saying we have heard their rams are crappy and their warranty is worse.
Power of the people!!!!! Hell hath no fury like a ***boater scorned.....at least if they are on the forums here.
I wonder if this thread will disappear???? :idea:
Nice PR for Shockwave to take care of it like they have. :)

[Mandelon]

I think that IMCO thinks their shit don't stink.
But it sounds like the rams they sell do. :sqeyes:
All you can do is warn them. Be sure and get some emails of the owners and managers so we can flood their email boxes with hundreds of emails saying we have heard their rams are crappy and their warranty is worse.
Power of the people!!!!! Hell hath no fury like a ***boater scorned.....at least if they are on the forums here.
I wonder if this thread will disappear???? :idea:
Nice PR for Shockwave to take care of it like they have. :)

[DMOORE]

What the hell were you thinking that boat parts should be able to work in water? Next, you'll be trying to drive your car on the street!!!!
Classic.
I have to agree that there is some sort of defect with the rams on your boat. If it were to happen again, I would want a rep from IMCO to inspect the set up.
Darrell.

[DILLIGAF]

But it sounds like the rams they sell do. :sqeyes:
All you can do is warn them. Be sure and get some emails of the owners and managers so we can flood their email boxes with hundreds of emails saying we have heard their rams are crappy and their warranty is worse.
Power of the people!!!!! Hell hath no fury like a ***boater scorned.....at least if they are on the forums here.
I wonder if this thread will disappear???? :idea:
Nice PR for Shockwave to take care of it like they have. :)
If it happens again yes, I would agree. Maybe I am just the guy who got a couple of bad ones (well, 3 to be exact).
This thread should NOT disappear....
Shockwave has always looked out for me very well....

[DILLIGAF]

Classic.
I have to agree that there is some sort of defect with the rams on your boat. If it were to happen again, I would want a rep from IMCO to inspect the set up.
Darrell.
Thanks Darrell and I agree. Savage and Shockwave think it is setup properly and claim to have never seen this happening before. regardless, they have steppped up and IMCO has not :( Again, Bob has eaten the charges on this as they have billed for the repairs.

[Baja Big Dog]

Why do yo dick around with the a-holes. Just because you found someone to cover the cost of repairs does not take the burden of responsibility off the people that made the product. If you are using a steering set up on your BOAT, (from Dictionay.com
–noun 1. a vessel for transport by water, constructed to provide buoyancy by excluding water and shaped to give stability and permit propulsion. )
that was designed for your BOAT (see above definition) and it fails, and by the words of the said Mfg because of prolonged use in the WATER, then I would be delighted to advise everyone of the said companies explanation in writing, supply us with their denial of warranty and let us go.
This is wrong, prolonged use in water??...come on, its time to bury assholes like this.
And get the "good guy" that stood behind the boat he built and made the product good, his money he deserves.
What if the out drive took a shit, and Merc came back and said they denied the warranty because it was used in the water!! Would you stand back and let them do this....I think not. This is bullshit, lets spread the word.

[DILLIGAF]

:D Subtle highlight job. Sent you a text msg regarding boat names. You comin down today? Wanna get on the water?
I don't get text messaging Rick. An em or a post on that thread will get it done though. The KIWI MATE name is the choosen name already though.
I have to be at Savage at 7AM tomorrow. Don't think I will be going out on the water though. If so, I could use a crash test dummy :). You in if I do?

[DILLIGAF]

Why do yo dick around with the a-holes. Just because you found someone to cover the cost of repairs does not take the burden of responsibility off the people that made the product. If you are using a steering set up on your BOAT, (from Dictionay.com
–noun 1. a vessel for transport by water, constructed to provide buoyancy by excluding water and shaped to give stability and permit propulsion. )
that was designed for your BOAT (see above definition) and it fails, and by the words of the said Mfg because of prolonged use in the WATER, then I would be delighted to advise everyone of the said companies explanation in writing, supply us with their denial of warranty and let us go.
This is wrong, prolonged use in water??...come on, its time to bury assholes like this.
And get the "good guy" that stood behind the boat he built and made the product good, his money he deserves.
What if the out drive took a shit, and Merc came back and said they denied the warranty because it was used in the water!! Would you stand back and let them do this....I think not. This is bullshit, lets spread the word.
I don't always agree with you but this post was dead on.
Good point made

[nodigg]

I don't get text messaging Rick. An em or a post on that thread will get it done though. The KIWI MATE name is the choosen name already though.
I have to be at Savage at 7AM tomorrow. Don't think I will be going out on the water though. If so, I could use a crash test dummy :). You in if I do?
The text was just a suggestion for a sign painter in town that's all. Its your boat, name it what you want.
CRASH test NOPE! Dummy? I'm the man you need! As far as the water is conocerned, I was figuring my boat since yours will be in the shop again.....

[SummitKarl]

Rick you going to launch today........:D :D , I am on the fence...twist my arm a bit:D :D

[Run_em_Hard]

Why do yo dick around with the a-holes. Just because you found someone to cover the cost of repairs does not take the burden of responsibility off the people that made the product. If you are using a steering set up on your BOAT, (from Dictionay.com
–noun 1. a vessel for transport by water, constructed to provide buoyancy by excluding water and shaped to give stability and permit propulsion. )
that was designed for your BOAT (see above definition) and it fails, and by the words of the said Mfg because of prolonged use in the WATER, then I would be delighted to advise everyone of the said companies explanation in writing, supply us with their denial of warranty and let us go.
This is wrong, prolonged use in water??...come on, its time to bury assholes like this.
And get the "good guy" that stood behind the boat he built and made the product good, his money he deserves.
What if the out drive took a shit, and Merc came back and said they denied the warranty because it was used in the water!! Would you stand back and let them do this....I think not. This is bullshit, lets spread the word.
I would have to agree...when I buy something for my boat it better be able to handle the water for hell of alot longer than 4 days. Expecially if it sits on the outside of the hull. Come-on IMCO get your shit together and warranty this:mad:
BTW, I love my WPM steering and its not out of family for my boat to sit on the water for a week:)

[DILLIGAF]

The text was just a suggestion for a sign painter in town that's all. Its your boat, name it what you want.
CRASH test NOPE! Dummy? I'm the man you need! As far as the water is conocerned, I was figuring my boat since yours will be in the shop again.....
Got ya...
I thought maybe I could return the non-steering ride :)
It won't take long for AJ to get me out of the shop. Probably an hour or two tops. I am going to have breakfast at the mexican RESTRAUNT right by Savage while the boat is in.

[phebus]

I am going to have breakfast at the mexican right by Savage while the boat is in.
No you're not. They are closed for remodeling. :mad:

[jayd_jr]

I am going to have breakfast at the mexican right by Savage while the boat is in.
I thought you meant the mexican working there....:devil:

[DILLIGAF]

No you're not. They are closed for remodeling. :mad:
damn it!
jayd_jr
I thought you meant the mexican working there....
HAHA....I corrected the post.

[Dave C]

What you are trying to say is that it has an Implied Warranty of Mercantability and Implied Warranty for a Particular Use...... (I use initial capital letters for a reason)
DILLIGAF... look this one up and send it to them and they will have to change their story.. my guess is first they will disclaim the warranty then when that doesn't work they will say their product was used improperly or abused.
What a bunch of B.S.....
that was designed for your BOAT (see above definition) and it fails, and by the words of the said Mfg because of prolonged use in the WATER, then I would be delighted to advise everyone of the said companies explanation in writing, supply us with their denial of warranty and let us go.
This is wrong, prolonged use in water??...come on, its time to bury assholes like this.
And get the "good guy" that stood behind the boat he built and made the product good, his money he deserves.
What if the out drive took a shit, and Merc came back and said they denied the warranty because it was used in the water!! Would you stand back and let them do this....I think not. This is bullshit, lets spread the word.

[Baja Big Dog]

What I am saying is get the explanation IN WRITING from IMCO. A lot of times when you press companies for information regarding a failed product, and want them to put in writing, things have a tendency to take another avenue.
You cant hide from the written word...:D

[nodigg]

Rick you going to launch today........:D :D , I am on the fence...twist my arm a bit:D :D
Just read this....I didn't launch though...
Tom, what's the latest on this deal? Did the newest replacement leak yet?
You keeping a baggie wrapped around the Imco Ram to keep it from getting wet when the boat is in the water?

[DILLIGAF]

Tom, what's the latest on this deal? Did the newest replacement leak yet?
No leaks to report at this time BUT the boat has been in the water for two whole days. Lets hope it holds up this time.

[dicudmore]

hey Tom, good to see you, D and Rick on the water the other day :D

[Kilrtoy]

I thought you meant the mexican working there....:devil:
You beter not be having her for breakfast:)

[nodigg]

Uh-oh, where were you hiding?? I kinda, foggily remember seeing your boat..
I wasn't driving:D I was DARINKIN!

[dicudmore]

Uh-oh, where were you hiding?? I kinda, foggily remember seeing your boat..
I wasn't driving:D I was DARINKIN!
in front of the Agave, about ten boats down

[DILLIGAF]

hey Tom, good to see you, D and Rick on the water the other day :D
I thought that might have been you. Not really knowing all the boats in LHC makes me a little gunshow as far as approaching the boats. Nodigg....that mofo did his job as a boat biach but should have pointed it out to me.

[MBlaster]

That total BS.
Bob should insist someone from IMCO get their ASS over to inspect your boat.
Somethin just smells rotton to me.

[DILLIGAF]

So...this weekend another seal went out and my steering is ****ED up AGAIN! Eliminates my trip to Parker this weekend and probably my "unofficial" SCOPE deal the following weekend :mad:
I was already bringing it back to Shockwave after next weekend to fix a few things. I will just have them deal with it.
This is ****ed up AGAIN! This is the 4th seal that has started leaking. There are only two on the GD setup. Yep, each seal has burst twice! Think this is still a problem with my boat in the water? I have only been keeping it in the water for a day or two at a time. Since the last failure I have been cleaning the arms with pool acid/water so to eliminate ANY buildup at all. WTF else can I do here?
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[DILLIGAF]

arn't they selling "BOAT PARTS"?THAT GO IN WATER?maybe their car parts and can't get wet:mad:
I thought so but from what I understand they just think their parts don't fail due to anything other than what the customer is doing wrong to cause the failures :mad:

[Rvr Swpr]

Your trips offshore last year were interesting to follow.Any chance of some sort of Salt prob.

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

So...this weekend another seal went out and my steering is ****ED up AGAIN! Eliminates my trip to Parker this weekend and probably my "unofficial" SCOPE deal the following weekend :mad:
I was already bringing it back to Shockwave after next weekend to fix a few things. I will just have them deal with it.
This is ****ed up AGAIN! This is the 4th seal that has started leaking. There are only two on the GD setup. Yep, each seal has burst twice! Think this is still a problem with my boat in the water? I have only been keeping it in the water for a day or two at a time. Since the last failure I have been cleaning the arms with pool acid/water so to eliminate ANY buildup at all. WTF else can I do here?
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
So you aren't going? Or you're just not taking the boat? We have room on our boat, Tom.

[Rvr Swpr]

their BOAT PARTS they go in water;)
Fluid.

[DILLIGAF]

Your trips offshore last year were interesting to follow.Any chance of some sort of Salt prob.
Shouldn't be. Those were just one day trips with the boat pulled out and cleaned right away

[DILLIGAF]

So you aren't going? Or you're just not taking the boat? We have room on our boat, Tom.
At this point it looks like we will not be going. Thank you for the offer but we had 7 people with us. It sucks for this to happen again!

[DILLIGAF]

what diff fluid for saltwater?i don't think so its sealed(or should be:( )
Yep...the seals are blowing out for some reason.

[Rvr Swpr]

what diff fluid for saltwater?i don't think so its sealed(or should be:( )
The seals are failing,just thinking water coming in.Not much,but enough.

[DILLIGAF]

DILLIGAF, you used the term "burst" in your discription of the damaged seals. Has anyone checked to see what the actual pump pressure is when in use? It's starting to sound like there may be other issues than just the seals.
Just a thought,
Rio
I have brought that up to them and I have been told that their is no "regulator" on the pressure. I say burst but I guess it is just a deterioration of the seal and it starts leaking. When it starts to go my steering starts to get more and more difficult. That is usually when I start seeing fluid leaking from the trasom. At first it is gradual and then a full on leak. IMCO has taken 0 responsibility at this point. The first time it happened I was still under warranty. Bob at Shockwave went ahead and agreed to absorb those charges and did it one more time after the warranty period was over.
I thought this was finally resolved but obviously not....

[Havasu_Dreamin]

No es bueno.....We've got the full hydraulic IMCO steering on the Howard and this is somewhat concerning......

[phebus]

Is there a posssibility that the hydraulic fluid is contaminated or is not compatible with the seals? I think during the repair process, I would drain and replace all the fluid.

[DILLIGAF]

I have no idea Rick. I have sent IMCO an email with a link to this thread. I am asking them to get back to me and let me know what they are willing to do to try to solve this problem. In the past the only response from IMCO has been that it is because of water build up :confused:
I am hoping when they deal with me directly that we will see this has been a big misunderstanding and that they have the answers/solutions to what is going on with my RAMS.
I just want it fixed once and for all :mad:

[Nord]

Not to change the subject Tom, but how does your boat handle overall. Would you change anything?? Does it get slammed on the way out to Catalina? Reason for the questioning is because I found a 30 Eliminator Eagle I'm interested in and want to compare it to the Shocwave Magnitude.........
Thanks ahead :)

[Forkin' Crazy]

So you are replacing the rams/cylinders with different ones or having the old ones repacked?

[DILLIGAF]

Not to change the subject Tom, but how does your boat handle overall. Would you change anything?? Does it get slammed on the way out to Catalina? Reason for the questioning is because I found a 30 Eliminator Eagle I'm interested in and want to compare it to the Shocwave Magnitude.........
Thanks ahead :)
I feel very comfortable taking the SW out in the ocean. No issues other than if it really is big water I would advise you to use conservative judgement. I don't know much about the Eagle so I can't comment or compare them. THe SW has handled the water out there very well.

[DILLIGAF]

So you are replacing the rams/cylinders with different ones or having the old ones repacked?
I believe they are just repacking as they had us send the parts to them both times and we had to wait for them to send them back to us.

[Forkin' Crazy]

I believe they are just repacking as they had us send the parts to them both times and we had to wait for them to send them back to us.
Sounds like maybe a clearance problem or maybe a rough place on the ram itself. I have rebuilt several cylinders and it’s not rocket science. If the ram has too much clearance to the end cap, the seal will blow. The seals/sealing rings also have to be arranged in proper order. Sounds to me like a definite problem on their end. Good luck.

[DILLIGAF]

Sounds like maybe a clearance problem or maybe a rough place on the ram itself. I have rebuilt several cylinders and it’s not rocket science. If the ram has too much clearance to the end cap, the seal will blow. The seals/sealing rings also have to be arranged in proper order. Sounds to me like a definite problem on their end. Good luck.
Thanks for the info. I am hoping that IMCO steps up and hadles this for me. They might not want to after this thread but all I want is the problem fixed...once and for all.

[BadKachina]

I've seen plenty of boats that are slipped or moored with IMCO rams that don't have the problem that you're having. That would lead me to believe that maybe your shafts were manufactured out of spec. or as someone mentioned before you are using a hydraulic fluid that's not compatible with their seals. If the shafts were too big or too small for the seals could see them failing prematurely.
Imco should replace your rams with brand new rams. You should also be able to get that done before next week. If not call WPM, Mayfair, Lathum (who ever) and order some new rams and get a lawyer and sue IMCO for a refund.

[nodigg]

Time to press IMCO for a new set of rams IMO. NEW!
On the other hand, We have room for you on our boat. We can pick you up at J.T.'s!:D

[DILLIGAF]

I've seen plenty of boats that are slipped or moored with IMCO rams that don't have the problem that you're having. That would lead me to believe that maybe your shafts were manufactured out of spec. or as someone mentioned before you are using a hydraulic fluid that's not compatible with their seals. If the shafts were too big or too small for the seals could see them failing prematurely.
Imco should replace your rams with brand new rams. You should also be able to get that done before next week. If not call WPM, Mayfair, Lathum (who ever) and order some new rams and get a lawyer and sue IMCO for a refund.
it is a mystery to all however all agree it should not be happening.
I will be talking to Bob at SW first thing in the AM and will follow his lead.
I figure this thread can go many different ways. One of course is that IMCO totally ignores this. Another one that I am hoping for is that they actually help us out here to get this resolved. That is all I ask but they may not feel that way because of comments within this thread.
In all fairness to IMCO I have never spoken to anybody there. I have left that up to Bob and AJ over at Savage Marine.
Hoping for the best.

[DILLIGAF]

Time to press IMCO for a new set of rams IMO. NEW!
On the other hand, We have room for you on our boat. We can pick you up at J.T.'s!:D
Thanks Rick but we will probably just pass on the Parker trip. Pretty disgusted at this point.

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

Time to press IMCO for a new set of rams IMO. NEW!
On the other hand, We have room for you on our boat. We can pick you up at J.T.'s!:D
:D It's settled then. Karen and Deanne can ride with us . . . and everyone else can ride with you :D :D :D

[BadKachina]

Here's another thought, and not bash on Shockwave, but wouldn't the lemon law cover your problem? You've had the same problem four times on a new boat with hardware installed by the manufacturer. Sounds to me like even if you haven't dealt with IMCO, you may have rights with Shockwave, hopefully they will replace your rams and go after IMCO themselves so you can be on the water. After all, you bought the boat to use it, not to have it in the shop every time you moor it for more than a day.

[phebus]

I didn't think that the lemon law applied to boats.

[DILLIGAF]

Here's another thought, and not bash on Shockwave, but wouldn't the lemon law cover your problem? You've had the same problem four times on a new boat with hardware installed by the manufacturer. Sounds to me like even if you haven't dealt with IMCO, you may have rights with Shockwave, hopefully they will replace your rams and go after IMCO themselves so you can be on the water. After all, you bought the boat to use it, not to have it in the shop every time you moor it for more than a day.
Naw....SW has been trying to get things handled. I have no problem with them at all.
I understand what you are saying but SW is not the issue.

[scooooter7]

Not to change the subject Tom, but how does your boat handle overall. Would you change anything?? Does it get slammed on the way out to Catalina? Reason for the questioning is because I found a 30 Eliminator Eagle I'm interested in and want to compare it to the Shocwave Magnitude.........
Thanks ahead :)
This is a funny question...would you change anything??
Like maybe, the STEERING system?

[GHT]

So, earlier this summer both of my RAMs on my full hydraulic steering went out. The pump also. IMCO blamed it on me keeping it in the water and the buildup that occurs :(. They charged for the repairs that Savage did for me but Bob at Shockwave went ahead and offered to pay for it as the boat was only one year old.
About a month ago another RAM went out :(. Yes, of course one that they already repaired. They used the same damn excuse about the water and so forth and would not cover the repairs...AGAIN! Bob graciously N/C the repairs and I am taking it down to Savage tomorrow AM to re-install it.
I only keep my boat in the water for 3-4 days at a time and try to keep it clean at all times. Yes, I know buildup can make it hard on the rubber seals for the RAM's but GD it this is ridiculous.
If IMCO can't build a product that can sit 3-4 days at a time in the water THEIR product is defective.
If this happens again I will tell everybody high/low about it.
Whatever happened to standing behind your product? They obviously have NOT read the friggin' book :( Maybe AJ at Savage or Bob at Shockwave can send them a copy of their book.
Rant over.....for now!
Thank you AJ and Bob for helping me out and getting me taken care of. I appreciate the help and will of course continue to send people your way when help is needed.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH THEIR IMCO SETUP?
This is EXACTLY why I only leave my boat in the water for NO more than 48 hours! Tom, have plumb F'ing lost your mind?!?!?! You should have aske IMCO if their products are good for water usage... You didn't do you home work and if you would have IMCO would have told you all their Marine products are only Water Resistant not Water Proof... :idea: :confused: :sqeyes:

[shueman]

...In all fairness to IMCO I have never spoken to anybody there. I have left that up to Bob and AJ over at Savage Marine.
...
Rather than bashing them on the internet, maybe you should call Fred or Dave about the problem...:idea: :)

[Tom Brown]

Hmmmmmm.......new twist but I hope IMCO doesn't hear about the mussles :)
What difference will them knowing make if they're dodging their warranty obligations? This is not the first we've heard of this, either.

[Tom Brown]

Rather than bashing them on the internet, maybe you should call Fred or Dave about the problem...:idea: :)
Get real. Tom is not responsible for the poor handling of this issue.
Sure, maybe he could have gone to the Imco head office and shown a bunch of people his service records, launch records, pictures of the ram, a chemical analysis of the hydraulic fluid, and provided sworn affidavits from other boaters to let Imco know that he doesn't turn the wheel all that much. Perhaps then they would have reconsidered their position or offered him a discount on the repair.... but he is not responsible for this failure of the warranty system. Do not turn this around on him.
Kudos to Shockwave.

[DILLIGAF]

Rather than bashing them on the internet, maybe you should call Fred or Dave about the problem...:idea: :)
I don't know Fred or Dave. Who checks their emails? They have one in their in-basket with a link to this thread.
I have let the manufacture of the boat (Shockwave) and the local shop I use in Havasu (Savage Marine) handle this for me.
1st thing in the AM I am calling Shockwave and letting them know this has happened again. Bob will assist me as he always has. If he gets a dead end then I will take it from there. Initially this problem was within the warranty period and is continuing to happen for unknown reasons. SW has eaten the costs on this twice now. I already had an appointment at SW next week to bring the boat in for some non-related service before I head to the ocean and then this sprung up.
That is where it is.....Read my first post in this thread and you may have an idea WHY I am posting the new info. IMCO has done nothing for me at this point. Of course SW sales more of these setups than just me and I am going with their recommendations for repair.

[DILLIGAF]

What difference will them knowing make if they're dodging their warranty obligations? This is not the first we've heard of this, either.
Not as far as my own personal experience is concerned. If you have any additional info please PM it to me Tom. I will keep it off the boards but would like to hear about other issues for my own understanding.

[DILLIGAF]

Get real. Tom is not responsible for the poor handling of this issue.
Sure, maybe he could have gone to the Imco head office and shown a bunch of people his service records, launch records, pictures of the ram, a chemical analysis of the hydraulic fluid, and provided sworn affidavits from other boaters to let Imco know that he doesn't turn the wheel all that much. Perhaps then they would have reconsidered their position or offered him a discount on the repair.... but he is not responsible for this failure of the warranty system. Do not turn this around on him.
Kudos to Shockwave.
I agree and thank you for the support Tom. SW does deserve kudos. They have always been excellant to deal with and it started with my contact with Barry a couple of SW boats ago.

[DILLIGAF]

This is EXACTLY why I only leave my boat in the water for NO more than 48 hours! Tom, have plumb F'ing lost your mind?!?!?! You should have aske IMCO if their products are good for water usage... You didn't do you home work and if you would have IMCO would have told you all their Marine products are only Water Resistant not Water Proof... :idea: :confused: :sqeyes:
lol...I hope you are kidding Don :)

[DILLIGAF]

This is a funny question...would you change anything??
Like maybe, the STEERING system?
I like the steering.....when it works :)

[DILLIGAF]

Just got off the phone with Bob at Shockwave and he will be calling IMCO to see what can be done.
I hope IMCO steps up and does the right thing. I am disappointed in the product preformance but if fixed for good that would be fantastic. I will make sure to provide any info that I can as we move forward on this.
Wish me luck peeps.....

[Baja Big Dog]

Rather than bashing them on the internet, maybe you should call Fred or Dave about the problem...:idea: :)
At what point do you come to the reality of the company mishandling this problem, weather its Fred, or Dave (obvious owners of IMCO) or ted, in the back, or Jose the shipping guy!
It sounds like they (IMCO) have a problem, weather with their design, or this individual item. It sounds like this has been mishandled before, and I know that when it comes to someone getting screwed by a company tha lives on its name, I want to hear about it, if your sittin around the bar with the bros talkin shit, and someone says.."I wanna put ------on my boat, I can speak up and say dont use brand X because they screw people around, that is the power of the Internet!!!

[DILLIGAF]

At what point do you come to the reality of the company mishandling this problem, weather its Fred, or Dave (obvious owners of IMCO) or ted, in the back, or Jose the shipping guy!
It sounds like they (IMCO) have a problem, weather with their design, or this individual item. It sounds like this has been mishandled before, and I know that when it comes to someone getting screwed by a company tha lives on its name, I want to hear about it, if your sittin around the bar with the bros talkin shit, and someone says.."I wanna put ------on my boat, I can speak up and say dont use brand X because they screw people around, that is the power of the Internet!!!
Agreed....Like I said, I am hoping that this gets handled by IMCO and everybody ends up happy. One thing you can count on from me is it will always be the truth and I give credit when due.
I guess one option is to just buy a completely new steering system :eek:

[acatitude]

Agreed....Like I said, I am hoping that this gets handled by IMCO and everybody ends up happy. One thing you can count on from me is it will always be the truth and I give credit when due.
I guess one option is to just buy a completely new steering system :eek:
sounds like imco should just ship a new system to your mechanic to install...
no need for them to screw up your steering just because your a laker hater:D

[DILLIGAF]

sounds like imco should just ship a new system to your mechanic to install...
no need for them to screw up your steering just because your a laker hater:D
Is it possible? Damn LF's are everywhere.....Well, at least there used to be lots of them. Maybe Don works for them
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Don_Avatar.gif
lol

[OGShocker]

I don't know Fred or Dave. Who checks their emails? They have one in their in-basket with a link to this thread.
I have let the manufacture of the boat (Shockwave) and the local shop I use in Havasu (Savage Marine) handle this for me.
1st thing in the AM I am calling Shockwave and letting them know this has happened again. Bob will assist me as he always has. If he gets a dead end then I will take it from there. Initially this problem was within the warranty period and is continuing to happen for unknown reasons. SW has eaten the costs on this twice now. I already had an appointment at SW next week to bring the boat in for some non-related service before I head to the ocean and then this sprung up.
That is where it is.....Read my first post in this thread and you may have an idea WHY I am posting the new info. IMCO has done nothing for me at this point. Of course SW sales more of these setups than just me and I am going with their recommendations for repair.
Well, this thread is new to me but, not the BS IMCO pulls.
I bought a Drive from them for 9k cash. The drive was ordered by Dana Boats after I put my blower motor in. They were told the make, model and what the X dimension was. They suggested a 1"shorter lower so, we went with it.
After in we installed the drive we saw a decrease in top speeds averaging 14 MPH. We tried three props of varying pitch. 14MPH was a pretty big deal so, at the LA Boat Show I walked over to the IMCO booth to chat with Fred. I told them what we had seen and asked if they had any ideas. Their answers flat floored me.
1. "Try to trim your boat".
My response.. I have trimmed my boat to every position..
2. "You may want to try a different pitched prop"?
My response.. I tried three, two up and one down.
3. "Have you tried to trim your boat with the tree different sized props"?
My response.. I have! I have been driving boats since I was seven. I am sure I cannot think of a thing I haven't tried. Pitch up/Pitch down prop up/prop down and still my 27' foot Dana lost 14 MPH.
Fred: "oh, a VEE boat. Yeah, we have had some issues with that drive on most vee bottom boats. I am sorry about that".
So, since I know Fred has heard about this thread by now.....
F/U/C/K IMCO!
Have a nice day, everyone else!
Mark

[uLtRADeNniS]

Rather than bashing them on the internet, maybe you should call Fred or Dave about the problem...:idea: :)
Agreed!
Tom,
Im sorry to hear that this issue hasn't been resolved yet.
Fred Inman Jr and Dave Hards are two very nice guys, I know this first hand. I'm more than sure If you talked to them personally they would help you out. Melissa at the front desk checks their emails. You should try calling them and explaining your problem. Tell them your a friend of Dennis Ferncez.
At what point do you come to the reality of the company mishandling this problem, weather its Fred, or Dave (obvious owners of IMCO) or ted, in the back, or Jose the shipping guy!
Dave is not an owner of Imco. Fred Inman Sr. owns IMCO.

[DILLIGAF]

Agreed!
Tom,
Im sorry to hear that this issue hasn't been resolved yet.
Fred Inman Jr and Dave Hards are two very nice guys, I know this first hand. I'm more than sure If you talked to them personally they would help you out. Melissa at the front desk checks their emails. You should try calling them and explaining your problem. Tell them your a friend of Dennis Ferncez.
Dave is not an owner of Imco. Fred Inman Sr. owns IMCO.
Dennis....I am going to wait to hear from Bob and see what progress he makes. At that point I may be calling IMCO directly. Prior to this it was a warranty issue and now technically it isn't however the same problem is occuring since before the warranty ran out. Same exact problem with the RAMS leaking which in turn allow air into the steering setup thereby eliminating my steering all together :eek:
I can not count the amount of times I have had to bleed the system to get the air out.
It really is a BIG safety issue.......
Check your PM Dennis

[DILLIGAF]

Well, this thread is new to me but, not the BS IMCO pulls.
I bought a Drive from them for 9k cash. The drive was ordered by Dana Boats after I put my blower motor in. They were told the make, model and what the X dimension was. They suggested a 1"shorter lower so, we went with it.
After in we installed the drive we saw a decrease in top speeds averaging 14 MPH. We tried three props of varying pitch. 14MPH was a pretty big deal so, at the LA Boat Show I walked over to the IMCO booth to chat with Fred. I told them what we had seen and asked if they had any ideas. Their answers flat floored me.
1. "Try to trim your boat".
My response.. I have trimmed my boat to every position..
2. "You may want to try a different pitched prop"?
My response.. I tried three, two up and one down.
3. "Have you tried to trim your boat with the tree different sized props"?
My response.. I have! I have been driving boats since I was seven. I am sure I cannot think of a thing I haven't tried. Pitch up/Pitch down prop up/prop down and still my 27' foot Dana lost 14 MPH.
Fred: "oh, a VEE boat. Yeah, we have had some issues with that drive on most vee bottom boats. I am sorry about that".
So, since I know Fred has heard about this thread by now.....
F/U/C/K IMCO!
Have a nice day, everyone else!
Mark
Sorry to hear that Mark......

[Racey]

Fred or Dave are IMCO California, they have nothing to do with trim or steering ram product lines, that is all handled by Frank Inman or Ron Tasarski at IMCO-Nevada, they are about 5 doors down from our shop here in boulder city.
IMCO-NV
703 Wells Rd
Boulder City, NV 89005
(702) 294-3030

[Baja Big Dog]

Well, this thread is new to me but, not the BS IMCO pulls.
I bought a Drive from them for 9k cash. The drive was ordered by Dana Boats after I put my blower motor in. They were told the make, model and what the X dimension was. They suggested a 1"shorter lower so, we went with it.
After in we installed the drive we saw a decrease in top speeds averaging 14 MPH. We tried three props of varying pitch. 14MPH was a pretty big deal so, at the LA Boat Show I walked over to the IMCO booth to chat with Fred. I told them what we had seen and asked if they had any ideas. Their answers flat floored me.
1. "Try to trim your boat".
My response.. I have trimmed my boat to every position..
2. "You may want to try a different pitched prop"?
My response.. I tried three, two up and one down.
3. "Have you tried to trim your boat with the tree different sized props"?
My response.. I have! I have been driving boats since I was seven. I am sure I cannot think of a thing I haven't tried. Pitch up/Pitch down prop up/prop down and still my 27' foot Dana lost 14 MPH.
Fred: "oh, a VEE boat. Yeah, we have had some issues with that drive on most vee bottom boats. I am sorry about that".
So, since I know Fred has heard about this thread by now.....
F/U/C/K IMCO!
Have a nice day, everyone else!
Mark
"I am sorry about that" well that makes it all better now!!
The best part about people like this is that when times are good, they can have the "I am sorry about that" attitude, and not have a problem watching you go away. But when times are hard, like they are going to in the very near future, clowns like this will have to see some very serious attitude adjustments to survive, and yes IMCO may survive, but knowing that input like this may and will have an impact on other people's decisions to buy aftermarket goodies.
Sounds like some faithfuls here think its just a matter of communications, hopefully that is the case, and yo will post in a few weeks that all is well and IMCO rocks!!!

[nodigg]

I don't think there has been any IMCO bashing up in here by diilgaf yet has there?

[Sportin' Wood]

Tom I am no expert, but I will offer a few idea's.
My limited experience is only hydro steering on Rock crawlers and rebuilding shocks.
As stated by someone on here already. It seems there is a defect in the rams that would cause this problem or possibly pressure blowing them out. Has the pulley size changed, or any of the pulleys that would increase the pump speed? Is it possible that you have a heat issue? Could the fluid be getting too hot? Think back to the multiple times this has happened, is there anything that could be the same each time?
Is it possible that when the rams where put together they missed something or that the shafts need to be polished? I can not recall the name of the material, I think its Vitron,but we have to use an upgraded material on our shock seals because the damn things get so hot they blow the seals right out.
I have a long term problem with my hydro steering that I have messed with for two years, I still can't get it right.
Hydro steering is a pain in the ass but when it works it is the sh!t.
Not saying who's right or wrong but it seems you need a real solution and you are not getting it at the shop you have taken it to. I would be interested to know what they have done to fix it the last couple times. Just seals, full rebuild, replacement? Again I don't know crap about Imco steering.
BTW you did not wanna bring that big ol barge down to Parker anyway, you would have been a wreck worrying about it. Bring the little boat, your gal, and tell the rest of your crew to buy a raft.:D

[DILLIGAF]

Tom I am no expert, but I will offer a few idea's.
My limited experience is only hydro steering on Rock crawlers and rebuilding shocks.
As stated by someone on here already. It seems there is a defect in the rams that would cause this problem or possibly pressure blowing them out. Has the pulley size changed, or any of the pulleys that would increase the pump speed? Is it possible that you have a heat issue? Could the fluid be getting too hot? Think back to the multiple times this has happened, is there anything that could be the same each time?
Is it possible that when the rams where put together they missed something or that the shafts need to be polished? I can not recall the name of the material, I think its Vitron,but we have to use an upgraded material on our shock seals because the damn things get so hot they blow the seals right out.
I have a long term problem with my hydro steering that I have messed with for two years, I still can't get it right.
Hydro steering is a pain in the ass but when it works it is the sh!t.
Not saying who's right or wrong but it seems you need a real solution and you are not getting it at the shop you have taken it to. I would be interested to know what they have done to fix it the last couple times. Just seals, full rebuild, replacement? Again I don't know crap about Imco steering.
BTW you did not wanna bring that big ol barge down to Parker anyway, you would have been a wreck worrying about it. Bring the little boat, your gal, and tell the rest of your crew to buy a raft.:D
I did finally get that toilet fixed by the way and I did it myself :)
Basically from what I understand the pump is not adjustable and shows proper pressure. The RAMS (seals) have been repaired at IMCO and sent back out to be re-installed. In the meantime my boat is not working of course.
I now clean the RAM shafts and rest of the steering with a 50/50 solution of water and the pool acid to remove all water buildup whenever I pull the boat out of the water. After that I wipe them off real good with clean water and dry them off. I did not do this prior to the previous failures. So...the problem remains with no water buildup on them. You know I keep my boat clean as you have seen it in the garage and on the water.
When the RAMS start to fail I feel the steering gradually going out. Almost like I have no power steering fluid. That is when I know that one of the RAMS are going out. Once it went out very quickly while I was running the boat hard. It was pretty scary trying to keep the boat under control. At that point I see fluid in the water as it is leaking out. When this occurs it is also allowing air into the lines which causes air bubbles which push up thru the reservoir. It then forces the fluid out of the reservoir which leaks down into the bilge. Just a mess down there again :mad: One other thing is that the drive then has a lot of play in it. If the system is not bleed properly the drive will have a lot of play in it also. I assume this is due to the air in the hydraulic system.
This is a separate issue from the problems I had with the Dana hinges. They got fixed and I had no more problems with that. That failed twice....once my fault and the other Dana stepped up and took a look at the install while the boat was at SW. Seems that whatever the problem was got cleared up and I have not had any more problems with them. As I said, it was a separate issue.
That is as technical as I can get.....
We will be in Parker on Nodiggs boat this weekend. My boat will be sitting on the trailer as I am bringing it back to CA for service after that.

[OGShocker]

"I am sorry about that" well that makes it all better now!!
The best part about people like this is that when times are good, they can have the "I am sorry about that" attitude, and not have a problem watching you go away. But when times are hard, like they are going to in the very near future, clowns like this will have to see some very serious attitude adjustments to survive, and yes IMCO may survive, but knowing that input like this may and will have an impact on other people's decisions to buy aftermarket goodies.
Sounds like some faithfuls here think its just a matter of communications, hopefully that is the case, and yo will post in a few weeks that all is well and IMCO rocks!!!
I know the Inmans' know how to get in touch with me. They just never tried. My IMCO steering has worked bitchin, not that they care.
Purchase price $9,000 sold my drive (to a CAT owner) for $7,000.
(I would never fuk another boat owner.)
F/U/C/K IMCO!!!

[Sportin' Wood]

Cool Tom, I will talk to you about it there.
I wonder if it does not start foaming out res. first. Have you ever noticed that happening when there is not air in the lines? My Hydro steering on the buggy makes a huge mess because it gets hot, as it pukes fluid it gets even hotter because it has less fluid, then sh!t starts melting.
Just bouncing ideas, so maybe someone thats smarter then me can figure this out.
See ya in a couple days.

[DILLIGAF]

Nothing new to report at this time. Absolutely NOTHING!