Michael Vick.... [Archive]

RitcheyRch

07-17-2007, 02:15 PM

http://cbs2.com/topstories/topstories_story_198173819.html
Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury on charges related to illegal dog fighting.
Vick and three others were charged with violating federal laws against competitive dog fighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting and conducting the enterprise across state lines. The indictment alleges that Vick and his co-defendants began sponsoring dogfighting in early 2001, the former Virginia Tech star's rookie year with the Falcons.
The defendants were involved in an ongoing animal fighting venture based out of Vick's home in Smithfield, Va., from early 2001 to April 2007, according to a statement released by the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.
Vick faces $350,000 in fines and six years in prison if convicted of the charges.
Telephone messages left at the offices and home of Vick's attorney, Larry Woodward, were not immediately returned. A woman who answered the phone at the home of Vick's mother said the family knew nothing about the charges.

USCFAN

07-17-2007, 02:21 PM

I'm not a Michael Vick fan, but wasn't he just indicted? I thought he had to still be proven guilty.

MKEELINE

07-17-2007, 02:28 PM

I'm not a Michael Vick fan, but wasn't he just indicted? I thought he had to still be proven guilty.
What fun would that be?

Ion

07-17-2007, 03:46 PM

By HANK KURZ Jr., AP Sports Writer
"Losing dogs were sometimes killed by electrocution, drowning, hanging or gunshots"
:jawdrop:
Dem boyz ain't right!

Ion

07-17-2007, 03:48 PM

I'm not a Michael Vick fan, but wasn't he just indicted? I thought he had to still be proven guilty.
Indictment=accused.

ratso

07-17-2007, 03:49 PM

The south is a different place, that's for sure.
:jawdrop:

RiverDave

07-17-2007, 03:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW0dhh_Aj6A
RD

Slacker

07-17-2007, 05:53 PM

The south is a different place, that's for sure.
And i thought his brother was only one in the family that was a dumbass for having the talent or oppurtunity to do whatever and piss it all away.... Oh well i guess Community Service and a fine will be in store.... Maybe we should just send him to rehab.... yeah that will work

ahhell

07-17-2007, 06:35 PM

In March 2003, after a pit bull from Bad Newz Kennels lost in a fight, it said Peace consulted with Vick about the losing dog's condition, then executed it by wetting it with water and electrocuting it...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7033242?MSNHPHCP&gt1=10239

LUVNLIFE

07-17-2007, 06:46 PM

Well if he is guilty:rolleyes: What a tool:rolleyes: You make that kind of money and that is all you can up with to amuse yourself. C-mon:idea:

SmokinLowriderSS

07-17-2007, 07:10 PM

NFL Pro career, done, either way. Sounds like there may be some pretty damning evidence in store, and of course he denies knowing of anything going on.

RitcheyRch

07-17-2007, 07:40 PM

Thought heard on the news that he now blaming everything on a family member.

RitcheyRch

07-17-2007, 07:51 PM

I know he was claiming he was innocent but didnt remember him blaming a family member before.
Agree, they dont hand down indictments unless they have a good case.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the NFL since he supposed to report for training on July 25th.
I think that's been his stance since day one.
Federal indictment not good. Feds don't indict unless they have a case.

Ion

07-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Oh well i guess Community Service and a fine will be in store.... Maybe we should just send him to rehab.... yeah that will work
Ummm, no...these boyz didn't just get busted driving with a suspended license:
By HANK KURZ Jr., AP Sports Writer
"If convicted, Vick and the others Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution."

RitcheyRch

07-18-2007, 06:59 AM

I havent really been following the news on him. Didnt realize he been blaming a Family member since day ONE.
I kind of figure he will be playing this season.
Yeah, since day one he's been saying that his family took advantage of his generosity and he had no idea.
Regarding this season, I'm sure he will be allowed to play the entire NFL season. His trial will not likely begin until after the Super Bowl and Vick has no previous transgressions during his career. Like him or hate him, the worst thing he had previously done was the flip the bird to fans.

R.A.D.man

07-18-2007, 07:13 AM

I'm sure he will get sound advise from his younger brother. It is hard to believe he knew nothing of this.
That water bottle issue with the hidden compartment at the Miami Airport story sure disappeared last year. Maybe he has the same team working on this one and it will disappear too.

R.A.D.man

07-18-2007, 07:22 AM

Federal charges do not disappear. If he's convicted, and there seems to be a lot of evidence against him, he will do serious time.
It was just a little joke. A bad one at that.

fatboy95

07-18-2007, 07:32 AM

The south is a different place, that's for sure.
Very True. It's not just in the south. There are some things occuring in the Oakland hoods up north in California. The problem is animal control officers are scared to death to go into those places without a SWAT team. Wish something could be done to eliminate those people that do it. Maybe making Vick pay the price for all would be a good example.

Tremor Therapy

07-18-2007, 08:38 AM

Micheal Vick-LaDanian Tomlinson, LaDanian Tomlinson-Micheal Vick, Micheal Vick-LaDanian Tomlinson, LaDanian Tomlinson-Micheal Vick.............................................. .....Best fricken draft day trade in history, particularly the Chargers history.
Once a hood, always a hood.
Never liked the kid, nor his almighty attitude. He deserves what he gets in this dog fighting ordeal.
Ziggy,
I could not have said it any better! On draft day I was telling everyone I hoped the Chargers would not draft Vick, and all of my "Charger" friends damn near wanted to lynch me! I am soooooooooooooooooooo glad that we did not draft him! We are so much better off, best running back in the league, great character guy, and a much better chance of reaching the Super Bowl with him than with Vick!

Baja Big Dog

07-18-2007, 08:42 AM

Send him to the Raiders...he would be the poster child for Oakland fans!!!:D

Slacker

07-18-2007, 02:04 PM

Ummm, no...these boyz didn't just get busted driving with a suspended license:
By HANK KURZ Jr., AP Sports Writer
"If convicted, Vick and the others Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution."
I know but i figured that rehab was the in thing for all the celebrities getting into trouble.
I guess we will wait and see what happens. I still think with all ofthe money to be made or lost he is not going to jail. He is not public enemy #1 or swindled money from people (maybe ATL fans might have something to say about that) he is accused of dog fighting. I AM NOT CONDONING OR DEFENDING HIM as i am appauled at this, but in the real world there are some areas and some people that think this is not a big deal, just a part of life. Although if he is found guilty i hope he does have to serve something as i love dogs and feel that this is one reason why certain breeds of dogs get a bad rap. THat is story for another thread.

Trailer Park Casanova

07-18-2007, 02:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW0dhh_Aj6A
RD
Thats a good one RD.
I feel sorry for dogs at times.
Especially when they are so dependant on people, and people let them down.

Boa1277

07-18-2007, 05:47 PM

This case is a lynch mob, and the Humane Society is the lynch mob. I will say this the pictures I saw of the dogs that he was raising are in no way shape or form a fighting type of bull dog. The real dogmen are laughing their asses off that they are trying to make a case that these guys are fighting Blue Pit Bulls, the real people in the game know the odds of getting a game bred blue pit are slim to none. The truly sought after game bred bull dogs are anywhere from 35 to 55lbs and they are not blue..It is sad that the real reason they are going after this case is because of the celebrity Vick brings to the whole case. If he is involved in any type of dog fighting it is more of the gang banging poser style. I have read lots and lots of material on dog fighting since I have owned Pit Bulls for the last 20yrs and The true Dogmen are not involved in this. It is a known fact the Humane Society makes up bullshit lies about dog fighters electrocuting the losing dogs and they also say stuff like dog fighters have to feed their dogs gun powder to make them mean and tough, and they let their dogs kill cats and use them to help excercise the dogs by putting them in a cage and letting the dog chase it around like a carrot on a stick. All bullshit. Maybe young kids and gangbangers are doing this stuff because of BS the Humane Society and PETA started off as rumors to get the public on their side, now ignorant people are doing this crap. I will tell you this much true bull dogs do not need any type of encoragement to want to fight and they sure as hell dont need to be fed gunpowder or live cats. It was bred into them for hundreds of years and they are truly breed aggressive, yet they also have tons of really good qualities, as long as you realize you have to keep them away from other animals and never ever take a chance you can raise a pit bull and never ever have a problem, it just takes a very very responsible owner who will give the dog lots of attention and lots of excercise.

HavaSkank

07-18-2007, 05:50 PM

There goes his Alpo and Pet Smart endorsement deals.

finsfan4life

07-18-2007, 06:28 PM

I'm not a Michael Vick fan, but wasn't he just indicted? I thought he had to still be proven guilty.
Your kidding right ?? Dude, isnt it only freaking obvious....Like another reply stated, "You could take the thug out of the hood, but you could never take the hood out of the thug " !!!!! Vick was a Falcon on the outside, but is obviously a Raider in the inside !!!!

Racer277

07-18-2007, 06:35 PM

Everything you said about his posing may be true.
I would still gladly put a bullet in his head right now with the smallest amount of evidence. It won't bother me one bit.
This case is a lynch mob, and the Humane Society is the lynch mob. I will say this the pictures I saw of the dogs that he was raising are in no way shape or form a fighting type of bull dog. The real dogmen are laughing their asses off that they are trying to make a case that these guys are fighting Blue Pit Bulls, the real people in the game know the odds of getting a game bred blue pit are slim to none. The truly sought after game bred bull dogs are anywhere from 35 to 55lbs and they are not blue..It is sad that the real reason they are going after this case is because of the celebrity Vick brings to the whole case. If he is involved in any type of dog fighting it is more of the gang banging poser style. I have read lots and lots of material on dog fighting since I have owned Pit Bulls for the last 20yrs and The true Dogmen are not involved in this. It is a known fact the Humane Society makes up bullshit lies about dog fighters electrocuting the losing dogs and they also say stuff like dog fighters have to feed their dogs gun powder to make them mean and tough, and they let their dogs kill cats and use them to help excercise the dogs by putting them in a cage and letting the dog chase it around like a carrot on a stick. All bullshit. Maybe young kids and gangbangers are doing this stuff because of BS the Humane Society and PETA started off as rumors to get the public on their side, now ignorant people are doing this crap. I will tell you this much true bull dogs do not need any type of encoragement to want to fight and they sure as hell dont need to be fed gunpowder or live cats. It was bred into them for hundreds of years and they are truly breed aggressive, yet they also have tons of really good qualities, as long as you realize you have to keep them away from other animals and never ever take a chance you can raise a pit bull and never ever have a problem, it just takes a very very responsible owner who will give the dog lots of attention and lots of excercise.

HavaSkank

07-18-2007, 07:23 PM

I once attended a cock fight. Needless to say I was extremely disappointed when I only saw poultry.

Ziggy

07-18-2007, 07:28 PM

I once attended a cock fight. Needless to say I was extremely disappointed when I only saw poultry.
You might have better luck at a Swashbucklers reunion :)

HavaSkank

07-18-2007, 07:34 PM

Hey Zig! I pulled two 100 Makos out of your neck of the woods on Sunday! When you go swimming in Oceanside, and you dont get attacked by a shark, you need to thank me :D

Ziggy

07-18-2007, 07:40 PM

Hey Zig! I pulled two 100 Makos out of your neck of the woods on Sunday! When you go swimming in Oceanside, and you dont get attacked by a shark, you need to thank me :D
WOW, um, I'll thank you now instead :)
.
Was that the annual Mako tourney? or just for the sport?
.

HavaSkank

07-18-2007, 07:43 PM

Not the tourney, just to fill the freezer again.

Baja Big Dog

07-18-2007, 07:48 PM

Not the tourney, just to fill the freezer again.
Who's the blonde??? Quite the piece...:confused:

HavaSkank

07-18-2007, 07:50 PM

Some stupid hootchie mama that stole my credit cards, ID's and is now claiming to be me. I should totally bust a cap in her fat ass

Baja Big Dog

07-18-2007, 08:00 PM

Some stupid hootchie mama that stole my credit cards, ID's and is now claiming to be me. I should totally bust a cap in her fat ass
Let us do her first...or at least while shes got a little pulse!!:D

07-19-2007, 01:06 PM

Racer277

07-19-2007, 01:35 PM

LMAO. "He underthrew him a bone."
I don't condone dog fighting but....
Maybe it is appropriate to kill a dog that is badly hurt.
Maybe there are several humane ways to kill a dog.
Maybe Vick knew about some of this stuff but didn't participate as much as the feds say.
Then maybe I would humanely put a bullet in his head.
I still wouldn't lose sleep, I really don't care how much he participated.
If it made others feel better, maybe I would make sure he is badly hurt before hand...

SmokinLowriderSS

07-19-2007, 05:26 PM

Not to convict Vic prematurely, but, in the interest of "accuracy", the feds don't just whip out indictments like toilet paper, and this one is 18 pages long.
Turns out, he was (sort-of) ratted out by his doper brother.
Some time back he was investigated for the dog-fighting accusation, and nothing was found.
Now, just recently, his brother gets busted for drug possession, and guess what home address he listed on his arrest paperwork?
His dear brother, Machael.
Bingo, new search warrant for dope stuff, right out of the blue.
Don't know if they found narcotics things that will dig the brother a deeper hole, but apparently the place wasn't so "sanitized" of dog fighting evidence this time. Apparently enough evidence to need 18 pages in the indictment.
Now, on another tact, the NFL Commissioner, who has recently suspended several players for the "embarassment" but non-crime of going to an "exotic dancing club" (ti++y-bar), has said Vic will not be suspended, and can start training camp (basically) on time (the day after his initial hearing, whiuch falls on day 1).
Double-standards.

Ziggy

07-19-2007, 08:02 PM

The NFL policy is for REPEAT OFFENDERS. Players that have been warned to stay out of trouble in the past. Repeat after me, the NFL policy is for repeat offenders. Michael Vick has never been in trouble with the law or the league since he entered the NFL. He also hasn't been convicted of anything yet. For non repeat offenders, due process is still in place.
Pacman Jones was specifically told to stay out of strip clubs AND was given a curfew, THAT HE AGREED TO, as part of his suspension. That was part of having his year long suspension possibly reduced to 10 games, which would allow him to return and vest a season towards his pension and possible free agency. Basically, Pacman Jones can probably spend the night at strip clubs now, because he's now been charged with felonies in Nevada, charged with violating the terms of his probation in Georgia, violated his self imposed curfew at least four times and been out past curfew with a group of people that were involved in yet another strip club shooting. How much of idiot do you have to be to been suspended for a year and not say "Hey, homies, how about holstering those sidearms until I'm getting a paycheck again." The NFL could care less if you go to strip clubs, unless you happen to be the one guy in the NFL that can't manage to go to a strip club without turning it into a Die Hard movie.
Repeat offenders? "Lights out" got suspended on his first infraction, sure it was different, steroids.:rolleyes: He paid his dues and I bet he stays clean.
Micheal Vick has had disiplinary action for flipping the bird to HIS OWN FANS.....sorry but this tool has shown true colors more than once, he's got a poor attitude as if he was some sort of God and can do no wrong, he's done plenty wrong on and off the field. The talent he has could take him to the top but his personality will bury him.
Mr. Almighty, I can carry the whole team with me running, who needs a running back will have his time in court....
I'm tired of seeing him being portrayed as a role model to our youth and pretending he's a victim of all this.....if he had the chance he'd use his brothers tactic and kick us all while we're down.
.
I liked someone elses analogy...Falcon on the outside, Raider on the inside.:)

fatboy95

07-19-2007, 08:46 PM

By HANK KURZ Jr., AP Sports Writer
"Losing dogs were sometimes killed by electrocution, drowning, hanging or gunshots"
:jawdrop:
Dem boyz ain't right!
How humane. Maybe Vick and his scumbag buddies should suffer the same consequences if convicted. How soon before Al Sharpton, Oprah Winfrey and Jesse get involved?

Ziggy

07-20-2007, 07:01 AM

Merriman violated league substance abuse policy, which carries automatic penalties, including suspension for four games. No if, ands or buts. Marijuana, steroids, anything you test positive for will result in a four game suspension. He was not suspended due to the NFL's personal conduct policy. IF, HOWEVER, he were to be picked up on suspicion of DUI, he would be subject to new penalties as a repeat offender of the substance abuse policy.
Vick flipped off some fans. Not the smartest thing in the world, but certainly not running afoul of the law. He was subjected to a fine. How many times have you flipped off another driver that cut you off in traffic? I'm sure if he were to go around flipping off everybody everywhere he went, Goddell would suspend him. It's hard to call him a repeat offender as flipping off fans is not normally a precursor crime to running a dogfighting enterprise. And, unlike Pacman Jones and Chris Henry, he does not have a history of run ins with law enforcement, being questioned for his involvement in crimes, DUI, or anything of that nature. For a "thug", he's remained trouble free during his time in the NFL.
He's managed to not be caught, until now.....maybe I'm letting my personal opinion of the guy fog my judgement some. Lets just see where it all leads and let the dust settle where it may.
As you say, flipping the bird isn't the brightest action and not a law breaking deal but it does give you and slight look inside his true character that he's been hiding......
He's no Saint(no pun intended).:)

XFactor

07-20-2007, 07:18 AM

Vick flipped off some fans. Not the smartest thing in the world, but certainly not running afoul of the law. He was subjected to a fine. How many times have you flipped off another driver that cut you off in traffic?
Is that all he did. :rolleyes: How smart is it to flip of those that create your paycheck. The fans pack the stands and create revenue the owners use to pay the players and the players flip the bird to the fans. :confused: When was the last time Leno or Letterman flipped the bird to the audience after a joke bombed? Athletes are entertainers......period! Wake up and realize where your check comes from. I can't stand these athletes that think they're above the law. Manning, Thomlinson and others are role models. Not Vick, Pac-man, Owens and other thugs.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 07:33 AM

Ziggy

07-20-2007, 07:45 AM

Didn't Vick have some trouble at an airport with a water bottle that just happened to have a secret compartment in it. Seems to me they found some "residue" in that thing. But some how that whole situation "went away". If it looks like a snake and acts like a snake, it's probably a snake.
yup.
As if water bottles with hidden compartments are on every store shelf.:confused: :rolleyes: :D :D Maybe head shops though ;)
.
MV has simply been a little smarter and luckier than his brother....

Quest4Fun

07-20-2007, 07:57 AM

My son has a Michael Vick "Fat Head" on his bedroom wall now for about 2 years. I think he is going to take it down this weekend. He needs a new football idol for sure!

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 08:05 AM

My son has a Michael Vick "Fat Head" on his bedroom wall now for about 2 years. I think he is going to take it down this weekend. He needs a new football idol for sure!
This is why the league will look the other way with him, atleast until they have no choice. He sells NFL stuff. He generates income and interest in the league.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 08:08 AM

So the guy smokes pot. So do half the people on this board. I don't, never have, but I could care less what you do and what Vick does in regards to some recreational marijuana use.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't using pot against league policy?

Ziggy

07-20-2007, 08:32 AM

I would guess that after this last month, the income he will generate from merchandise sales will be about the same as Jon Kitna. ;)
Read this mornings paper that Nike hasn't cancelled their contract with him and will wait 'til this gets thru the court system but, they have cancelled the next round of signed shoes and shirts with his name on it.......
Whether or not he gets convicted he's been tainted forever.....little like Bonds.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 08:33 AM

Yes, it is. You can't possibly be naive enough to think that half the NFL doesn't use marijuana recreationally. In all actuality, getting caught using marijuana is against league policy. ;) Michael Vick has never tested positive, that's a known fact because he's never been suspended.
Your probably being conservative when you say half the league uses rec. drugs. If a player tests positive for rec. drugs he's either an idiot or an addict. These guys know when they are going to be tested and ways to pass the test. I also could care less whether or not the guy smokes pot and your right he's never been suspended. I see the way the guy carries himself, the people he has around him and the situations he's involved in and he comes off as a thug. One things for sure, it's going to be interesting to see how this whole dog fighting deal plays out.

XFactor

07-20-2007, 08:33 AM

You mean Peyton Manning that cheats on his wife every chance he gets? ;) Athletes are not role models. And, FYI, Terrell Owens has never even received a traffic ticket, let alone been in trouble with the law. To classify him as a "thug" is showing your ass.
Yea. Owens field antics are everything a parent should want for their kids to immulate. Great role model.

Racer277

07-20-2007, 08:35 AM

Athletes are not role models.
Not for me or you, but for a large part of the younger population, they are role models. His indictment, whether or not he is convicted, glamourizes this activity (dog fighting) to a large part of the (f'd up) population. That in itself is enough for me.
Fry him. (Literally).
Again, not because he did or didn't do anything, simply because the accusation glamourizes it...

Baja Big Dog

07-20-2007, 08:41 AM

Well Nike put his shoes on hold, but they are still paying him!!!!

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 08:52 AM

Well Nike put his shoes on hold, but they are still paying him!!!!
Of course their still paying him, i'm sure contractually they have to. He's only been acused, not convicted remember.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 09:02 AM

"Athletes as role models", man I don't even want to get started on this. The sad thing is that Vick or T.O. are probably better role models for alot of these kids than anyone else thats in their lives. Most people don't realize that there's no correlation between a huge sports contract and class.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 09:25 AM

In a super secret poll they did in the Eagles locker room, response of having TO as a teammate versus McNabb were very favorable. I think TO is one of those guys that says what most people are thinking but won't say. The guy played a Super Bowl with a broken leg and played almost the entire season last year with a broken hand.
Personally, I love TO. The guy is a flat out gamer that wants to win more than anything else. I love guys that want to win. I could do without have attitude, but again, I don't look to TO for any leadership in my life. He's an entertainer and he's very entertaining. From all accounts. a model citizen, a charitable man with a big heart and a bigger mouth.
You know who else is a gamer with a huge ego and mouth? Curt Schilling. You never hear anybody bad mouthing Schilling. Curt Schilling has a daily blog and is a regular caller on sports radio. The guy is a huge big mouth with an opinion on just about everything. People expect athletes to just play a game, collect their money and shut the hell up. They have as much right as anybody else to make asses of themselves, it's not illegal to be a dumbass.
I don't think anyone has ever questioned TO's toughness, although he tends to get alligator arms over the middle, or his desire to win. I've just never been a big fan of the"look at me, look at me guys". I prefer the guy that comes out does his job and acts like he's been there before.
Good thing being a dumbass isn't illegal, because I'd be doing a 10-12 year stretch.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 09:37 AM

I don't remember ever seeing Largent, Swann,Rice or Harrison whipping out a Sharpie. I agree with you on the ego, whether you call it an ego or cockiness or confidence, it's got to be there. Some guys just display it differently.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 09:46 AM

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 09:53 AM

It's been said that Swann and Rice were two of the hardest people to get along with as teammates. Jerry Rice was almost universally hated by teammates throughout his career, except on game day. You will never hear old timers come on TV and say what a great guy Jerry Rice was. All they ever talk about is what a great player he was.
In all fairness to both Rice and TO, I wouldn't consider Lynn Swann to be in the top 20 all time in WRs in NFL history. I'm not 100% sure he'd be in the top 50. Stallworth put up much better career numbers, Swann was more of a #2 on that team.
Sorry, but I have to call bs on this. How can you say that a guy with 3 rings and was the Super Bowl MVP isn't in the top 20 at his position. Statistics don't win games, players do.

MKEELINE

07-20-2007, 10:12 AM

Wasn't Larry Brown a Super Bowl MVP too. And Rod Martin? He had a lot of help. Like 9 future Hall of Famers on those teams.
In my book, Lynn Swann is not a top 20 all time WR. He was spectacular.
Rod Martin, i don't think so. Larry Brown, yes, along with other names like Brady, Elway, Rice, Montana, Bradshaw, etc. Being voted the best player in the biggest game puts you in a very elite group.

XFactor

07-20-2007, 10:28 AM

How can you defend T.O.? The guy is a distraction and a hindurance to his team. He is extremely talented and would serve to be much more effective in helping his team if his first priority wasn't T.O. A Sharpie, a fake phone call, a nap in the end zone all cost his team yardage. Did he learn the 1st time he was penalized.....NO. He continued with his antics and the team had to suffer. How's that a gamer? He's a punk that has one focus.....T.O.

XFactor

07-20-2007, 10:30 AM

I don't think being named MVP for a single game is that big of a deal, personally. And, you're right about Rod Martin, I think Marcus Allen was MVP.
That I would agree with. Doug Williams was once a super bowl MVP that I don't think anyone would say was a great Q.B.

Ziggy

07-20-2007, 10:38 AM

There are many players in todays pro sports that should eat some humble pie.
Sugar will get you farther than Spice.

Ziggy

07-20-2007, 10:44 AM