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coorslt4u2
07-18-2007, 01:26 AM
A new report projects home-price declines for the next two years. The riskiest markets are in Florida, California, Nevada and Arizona. Here's how to ride out the hard times.
By Marilyn Lewis
As if the housing market isn't bleak enough. The Standard & Poors' Case-Shiller Home Price Index reported in late June that home prices dropped more in the first quarter of this year than at any other quarter in the last 17 years. Now, a report from PMI Mortgage Insurance says home values could decline across much of the country for at least two more years.
There's a 34.6% chance on average that home prices will drop in the nation's top 50 markets in the next couple of years, according to PMI Mortgage Insurance's new U.S. Market Risk Index, which heavily factors in recent price volatility.
How far and how fast prices actually fall remains to be seen. But the report underscores the fact that today's market is decidedly different from that of recent years, when homeowners could bank on rapid home-value appreciation. (See the report or hear a podcast here.)
Headed for decline
Not surprisingly, the riskiest markets identified by the index are located in areas that saw rapid price appreciation, a reduction in affordability followed by a rapid decrease in the rate of price appreciation. Of the 15 biggest cities with the greatest risk for price decline -- with more than a 50% chance of lower home values by mid-2009 -- five were in California and four were in Florida.
At the highest end of the spectrum, the following major markets all have a greater than 60% chance of declines, according to PMI:
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, Calif. (65.2%);:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, Ariz. (64.6%);
Las Vegas-Paradise, Nev. (61.4%);
West Palm Beach-Boca Raton-Boynton Beach, Fla. (60.7%).
"There's no question that our housing prices are declining here," says Jay Thompson, an agent with Century 21 Aware near Phoenix. "Our appreciation rate was 54% average at one point in mid-2005-2006, so it is no surprise to anybody here … that prices were going to go down."
The inventory numbers tell the story: In January 2005, Thompson's multiple listing service showed 3,500 homes for sale. Today: about 54,000.
Also at risk for dropping values
The next-riskiest top 50 metro areas on the PMI index, with a 50% or greater chance of dropping values in two years, are:
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale, Calif. (58.6%);
Santa Ana-Anaheim-Irvine, Calif. (57.7%);
Oakland-Fremont-Hayward, Calif. (57.2%);
Orlando-Kissimmee, Fla. (56.3%);
Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Roseville, Calif. (56.0%);
San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, Calif. (55.5%);
Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach-Deerfield Beach, Fla. (54.2%);
Miami-Miami Beach-Kendall, Fla. (52.4%);
Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Fla. (50.6%);
Boston-Quincy, Mass. (50.1%);
Washington, D.C.-Arlington-Alexandria, Va.-W.Va. (50%).
Even where PMI found relatively low risk for dropping prices, sales have slowed way down. In Everett, Wash., in the Seattle-Bellevue-Everett region with a 34.3% risk of lower prices in two years, homes are sitting on the market an average of 59 days before selling, says Susan Funk, agent with Keller Williams Realty. "Last year, you knew you were overpriced if you did not have offers within the first 10 to 14 days," Funk says.
Rust belt less risky
You might expect the list of high-risk regions to include Midwestern industrial cities like Detroit, where prices fell 9.3% in the last year and foreclosures rose 140% between May 2006 and May 2007, according to RealtyTrac.
But Detroit hasn't had much volatility, just steadily falling prices and a huge backlog of properties for sale. There's less risk there because prices already have fallen a good deal, says Mark Milner, chief risk officer at PMI Mortgage Insurance. "Simply put, prices can't fall forever," PMI's report says.
"The more volatile it is, the more likely it will be volatile in the future," says Milner, explaining how risk is calculated. Phoenix, the second-riskiest city, saw a precipitous drop in the rate of home appreciation -- from 37.3% in the first quarter of 2006 to 4.52% in the first quarter of 2007.
Affordability -- how much of your income is eaten up by housing -- is another component of the risk scores. To arrive at risk scores, the PMI economists use a formula that includes data on house sales (including prices, volatility, acceleration and deceleration), affordability (including per-capita income, appreciation and mortgage rates) and employment.
One encouraging note: In most markets where price reductions are predicted there are strong local economies and low unemployment. Nationally, "on average, employment is very strong," says LaVaughn Henry, PMI's director of economic analysis.
The least-risky areas
The major metros with the least risk of price decline by 2009 were in Texas and the Midwest, stable markets largely untouched by the real estate boom:
Cincinnati-Middletown, Ohio-Ky. (9.7%);
Columbus, Ohio (9.3%);
Indianapolis-Carmel, Ind. (8.4%);
Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, Texas (7.9%);
Dallas-Plano-Irvington, Texas (7.5%);
Fort Worth-Arlington, Texas (7.4%);
Pittsburgh (6.4%).
Lessons from a changed market
What does all this mean to buyers and sellers? In short, says one agent, forget what you thought you knew about real estate.
For buyers
Consider whether and where to leap. For buyers, the changing market may mean it's time to think about buying if homeownership previously was too costly. "Yes, there are affordability problems in California, the Southwest and Florida," says PMI's Milner. "But there are also huge swaths of the country where housing is still very affordable, and in some cases more affordable (in percentage of income spent on housing) than it was 10 years ago." The most affordable regions are the South and Midwest. Just be certain you can weather the storm if home values drop after you buy.
Realize it's a home, not a cash machine. Think of your home as a place to live, not as a way to make quick money. "Instead of a stock, which is just a piece of paper, you get to consume shelter," says Milner. Your home probably will appreciate, but slowly. Historically, homes appreciate at a rate of about 4% to 6% a year, on average, over any given 10-year period, he says.
Choose a mortgage by interest rate, not payment amount. Proceed cautiously when shopping for a mortgage. Consider a traditional fixed-rate loan so you'll know exactly what your payment will be for the entire life of the loan. You may find adjustable-rate mortgages (ARM) with lower payments that later adjust up, but don't gamble that you can make a higher payment when the introductory period is over or when interest rates rise, as they are likely to do.
Don't bet on house appreciation. Don't make financial plans or take on debts that bank on the near-term rising value of real estate. In the post-bubble world, the risk to your financial stability is just too great. A number of the 176,137 foreclosures filed in May -- a 90% increase from last year at this time, according to RealtyTrac -- were by borrowers who'd gambled they could refinance a risky mortgage once their home had appreciated. Buyers "are going to need to be very prudent because they are not going to be bailed out by an appreciating home," says Milner.
For sellers
Sweeten a sale by helping a buyer with closing costs. Potential buyers may be sitting on the sidelines because, although they can make monthly payments, they haven't got a down payment saved up, says Steven Schafer, an agent with Boca Executive Realty in Boca Raton, Fla., one of the riskiest markets identified by the PMI study. Consider contributing up to 3% of closing costs. (Just be aware that states and lenders often limit seller contributions.)
Exploit the Internet. Open houses, while still an important sales tool, are being eclipsed by the Internet. Buyers now use Web research to learn what's for sale locally before stepping a foot out of their homes. With scads of homes on the market, you must figure out how to distinguish your home from others like it on the Internet. Schafer and Thompson, the Phoenix-area agents, create a Web site for each house they represent, usually using the home's address as the site address. If your agent can't register the link for you, do it yourself. You can also set up a Web page yourself with a modicum of computer skills or pay a Web site creation company to do it for around $30, says Schafer.
Load your listing with pictures. Schafer advises "visually communicating" with buyers by choosing an agent with an outstanding Web site and contributing plenty of great photos of the house.
Use a "virtual" tour. Sophisticated real-estate sites use panoramic photo features or streaming video so buyers can get a 360-degree view of the property from a single vantage. With virtual tours, buyers in other states and other countries can get a good feel for your home without actually stepping foot inside.
You can find additional selling tips in "How to sell in a homebuyer's market."
Just remember, even this tough market will pass. Time is needed for wages to catch up to prices so more people can afford to buy homes. "It takes time to adjust back to affordability," says PMI's economist Henry.

YeLLowBoaT
07-18-2007, 01:46 AM
Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Roseville, Calif. (56.0%
That does not shock me one bit... the housing market in sac has been just nuts the last few years. Home prices went way above what the "average" family could aford. I don't know any one my age( out of the people I went to hs with anyways) that owns thier own home that did not ether buy the house they grew up in or had thier parents give them $$$$$ to be able to buy the home. Its still pretty nuts, the house accross form my grandparents( which is not in a good area any more, crappy schools, more and more crime) sold for 298k and its only 1080 sq. My grandfater painted that house every single time its been painted other then the last time( which I did :D) Very few young people/familys can aford that. even at 7% that payment is still ~2k a month, add in prop tax, sewer, garbage, home owners and its 2.7-3k a month. Just for the house. With the average income of 67k per house hold in sac county there is no way you can make it.

Boozer
07-18-2007, 05:10 AM
Hopefully the pricing drop will be significant enough that people will finally be able to afford buying a home again. Californias housing prices got out of control.

socalmoney
07-18-2007, 05:35 AM
I think housing will go down for the next 4 years. Our whole economy is tied to it. When people stop spending money on useless crap they don't need, our economy will come to a grinding halt. There could be as many as 4 million people in foreclosure nationwide. I see a bunch of people on this board asking about places to move. They better hurry up and sell or they will loose a bunch of money. They would be best not to re-buy in a declining bubble market.

superdave013
07-18-2007, 05:49 AM
I think the housing market around here is on crack. Gee, a 1,400 sq. crappy house listed in a so so area of Anaheim for 675K and no one in jumping to buy it. GO FIGURE!! And if you bought it for 575K to flip it and are now stuck with it. Well go figure again.
I like those stats on Indy/Carmel. I'm from right up the road in Anderson. I bet my Anaheim house would sell for under 80K in that city.

robk
07-18-2007, 06:13 AM
I think the housing market around here is on crack. Gee, a 1,400 sq. crappy house listed in a so so area of Anaheim for 675K and no one in jumping to buy it. GO FIGURE!! And if you bought it for 575K to flip it and are now stuck with it. Well go figure again.
I like those stats on Indy/Carmel. I'm from right up the road in Anderson. I bet my Anaheim house would sell for under 80K in that city.
I'm in Carmel this week on business, and to say the least I'm blown away by quality vs. price out here -- it's REALLY nice. How about 4000-6000 square feet for 500K on a big lot out here...
Rob

Darrell's Bro
07-18-2007, 06:23 AM
I'm betting that the "experts" are wrong. The dow was over $14,000 yesterday, unemployment is low, interest rates remain low, etc. Prices shot up at a crazy pace and the housing market is digesting that appreciation.
We've been considering moving and looked at a new listing last week. It was a shack and listed for 2.4 mil. They had three offers in the first week. It will sell for 100 to 150k more than the asking price. Good locations are still selling briskly. I think the overall market will follow.
Just my opinion but history will show that the "experts" are generally wrong. The sky's not falling!

superdave013
07-18-2007, 07:14 AM
I'm in Carmel this week on business, and to say the least I'm blown away by quality vs. price out here -- it's REALLY nice. How about 4000-6000 square feet for 500K on a big lot out here...
Rob
Yeah Carmel has always been pretty nice. But if you went a little farther away from Indy like Anderson or Pendleton and looked at a 1950's era house on a small lot (like I have in North Orange County) it would seem dirt cheep.

meaniam
07-18-2007, 07:19 AM
those people writing this sh!t are idiot asses. unless of course they are maybe just factoring in only the year of 2005 for gains being lost. come on san bernardino. not a whole lot of money there to lose. i know this i live here. it took 6 years for value to double in this city. while other city have done way better then that. my money would be on cities like chino hills, rancho cucamunga, and orange county area losing a higher percentage of value gained since 2001. the inland empire was one of the last areas to lose value in so cal. i have heard this predictions come and go for the past 2 years from experts. i am not saying it wont lose some of it values. but the end of the world would have to come in order for me to be upside down. im not familiar with values in the O.C. but i am an agent in the I.E. and see the trend of people over their heads in o.c. walking away and buying out in the 909 and 951 where house are affordable. chino hills and rancho have more to lose. and debt levels seem higher there. i cant comment on the O.C. as i dont work there and dont want to start a i heard story.

fatboy95
07-18-2007, 07:25 AM
I hear there are some good deals in Tokyo right now.

coorslt4u2
07-18-2007, 10:36 AM
I'm in Carmel this week on business, and to say the least I'm blown away by quality vs. price out here -- it's REALLY nice. How about 4000-6000 square feet for 500K on a big lot out here...
Rob
I sold my home a little over 3 years ago in rancho cucamonga, after living there for 8 years and moved to Charlotte n.c, paid cash for my 3800sf home sitting on almost 1 acre and the home is only 4 years old ......."NO HOUSE PAYMENT" and i'm only 10 min from lake norman, screw cailfornia you can have it, Better way of life out here, and NO TRAFFIC JAMS GETTING TO THE LAKE, gotta love it.........:D :D

spectras only
07-18-2007, 11:08 AM
I live in the suburb of Vancouver . Our townhouse [ 2550 #foot ] was selling
for 105 K new 20 yrs ago . It could sell for 500 K + in a week .
Wages didn't go up par with real estate .Asian investors are driving the real estate here . In the early 1970's a basic spec home in Richmond could be bought for 15 K . The same old house is at least 500K there :jawdrop: . Richmond was a Garden city back then ,mainly white folks . It's probably 80 % chinese now .
The west side of Vancouver is totally out of control .Your Daddy must be a billionare to be able to buy a property on the waterfront , never mind the cheap Fountain :)
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/Kyle%20W%20Fountain%202

cdog
07-18-2007, 11:27 AM
There's a report done by RealtyTrac last week that shows 1 Foreclosure home for every 134 homes in Riverside and San Berdo. The IE is in deep shit!
Furthermore I just spoke to an appraiser who works for Fannie mea. She said that 25% of all the homes she has seen over the last 5 months have been foreclosures. She was planning to retire after 20 years in the biz but decided to stay since she’s making big bucks right now.

socalmoney
07-18-2007, 11:29 AM
I'm betting that the "experts" are wrong. The dow was over $14,000 yesterday, unemployment is low, interest rates remain low, etc. Prices shot up at a crazy pace and the housing market is digesting that appreciation.
We've been considering moving and looked at a new listing last week. It was a shack and listed for 2.4 mil. They had three offers in the first week. It will sell for 100 to 150k more than the asking price. Good locations are still selling briskly. I think the overall market will follow.
Just my opinion but history will show that the "experts" are generally wrong. The sky's not falling!
You must be in real estate or you make your money on the housing market because those are the only people who are preaching this. If you knew the history of the housing market in CA and you where following the right indicators I think your opinion would be different. The only houses selling right now are high end houses. That is a poor indicator of the overall market in this area.

socalmoney
07-18-2007, 11:31 AM
I live in the suburb of Vancouver . Our townhouse [ 2550 #foot ] was selling
for 105 K new 20 yrs ago . It could sell for 500 K + in a week . The view helps
Wages didn't go up par with real estate .Asian investors are driving the real estate here . In the early 1970's a basic spec home in Richmond could be bought for 15 K . The same old house is at least 500K there :jawdrop: . Richmond was a Garden city back then ,mainly white folks . It's probably 80 % chinese now .
The west side of Vancouver is totally out of control .Your Daddy must be a billionare to be able to buy a property on the waterfront , never mind the cheap Fountain :)
Do us a favor and resize the sunset photo so we don't have to scroll a mile to read this thread. 800 pixels would be dandy.

Darrell's Bro
07-18-2007, 01:03 PM
You must be in real estate or you make your money on the housing market because those are the only people who are preaching this. If you knew the history of the housing market in CA and you where following the right indicators I think your opinion would be different. The only houses selling right now are high end houses. That is a poor indicator of the overall market in this area.
I'm not in real estate (other than my personal homes) but I tend to believe that the experts are usually wrong. This has been true in the stock market, the housing market, the bond market, etc.
I agree with you that the high end is less troubled than the entry level markets but the people spending money at the top end creates jobs & opprotunities for the people who buy less expensive homes.
With unemployment rates so low, I would guess that the increase in foreclosures isn't a reflection of the overall well being of the economy (the economy is strong) but instead a reflection of the numbers of people overextended (with ARM's) at the entry margin of the market.
A small correction of 10% or even 20% in housing prices is nothing when you look at the long range, bigger picture and the appreciation most homeowners have experienced.
Things are rarely as good or as bad as most people initially think. So I think the prudent thing to do is sit tight, don't panic, and give the market a couple of years to make any needed corrections.
One thing that most all of us can agree on is: look back on this time in ten years and you'll be just fine.:)