The Judicial system SUCKS

[Boozer]

Back in December of 2005 I was pulled over for driving without a front license plate. The cop who pulled me over was a total jerk and refused to let me look for my insurance card. He then sited me for driving with no insurance.
In January of 06 I appeared in court on the case and provided proof of insurance and the DA said the charge would be dropped. Apparently along the way my papers magically dissapeared. On Friday I was with a friend and he was stopped for speeding, the officer arrested my friend for an FTA on a traffic ticket then decided to harass me and require that I give him all of my information. I was arrested for an FTA for my no insurance ticket (which mind you was suppose to have been dropped almost a year ago) and got to spend the night and most of Saturday in the county jail. I had to pay a bondsman $310 to get me out.
Today I went to court to clear up the matter, once again taking my insurance documents with me. I met with the DA at the same time as another gentleman who was charged with the same thing, he provided his insurance documentation to the DA and was then offered a plea bargain, the DA said that since he provided his proof of insurance he would drop the charge of driving without insurance to driving a defective vehicle which carried 1/2 the points and a fine of $200.00. Mind you this guy HAD insurance and thereby was completely INNOCENT of the no insurance charge. The gentleman clearly wanting to get out of the courthouse and continue on with his day agreed to the plea bargain.
After the gentleman in the DA's office with me signed his paper accepting the plea bargain the DA spoke with me. I gave him my insurance papers, explained that I had already done this once and now spent time in jail and a few hundred bucks over this deal due to the courts mistake. He apologized to me and made me the same offer he made the other gentleman but said for my inconvenience he'd drop the fine to $200. I refused his deal, told him to dismiss the charges or to schedule a trial date. After about 15 minutes of arguing back and forth he finally agreed to dismiss the charge.
This situation got me thinking. How many people are completely taken advantage of on a day to day basis by the Judicial system? The gentleman in the DA's office with me paid $200 and had points added against his driving record after doing nothing wrong other then misplacing his insurance card. The only thing he was really guilty of was ignorance.
I thought the US justice system was suppose to be fair and just. Instead it seems to be more corrupt then the criminals it is suppose to protect us from. Not to mention the fact that they make us pay for not only our mistakes but their mistakes as well!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Big Warlock]

No offense, but if you're looking for Justice, in the true sense of the word, this isn't the place. It's about wins and losses for the prosecutor. He or she doesn't care about "Justice" or doing the right thing. A plea deal is just as good as a conviction.
When you get into a legal entanglement, you need to learn this asap!!! Then you and your attorney will be successful. You don't try to prove your innocence. You try to prove that you will make the prosecutor look like an assclown when he loses the case!!! Or you try to prove he has no case.
The legal system in this country is broken. Tort reform is the solution. It won't happen because the majority of politicians are attorneys.
Sorry for the bad news.
:mad:

[Sleek-Jet]

The legal system in this country is broken. Tort reform is the solution. It won't happen because the majority of politicians are attorneys.
Sorry for the bad news.
:mad:
How is Tort reform going to help Boozer in a criminal case??
Doesn't tort have to do with civil cases, i.e. sueing for damages and what not.

[DaddyMack]

Its not the "judicial system".. its the DA you were dealing with. Unfortunately, they are usually new or newer attorneys that handle the traffic matters... and they can make mistakes...

[Jbb]

Its not the "judicial system".. its the DA you were dealing with. Unfortunately, they are usually new or newer attorneys that handle the traffic matters... and they can make mistakes...
mistakes?....sounds more like....crimes...

[Racey]

Totally sucks when you get screwed over by the courts for their mistake, I got a ticket for running a stop sign, went to court, plea'd out for reduced fine and online traffic school and i'd get no points, Did my traffic school turned it all in, and 2 months later got a card from NV DMV saying i had 4 points on my license WTF!!!!! i had to go through all sorts of crap to get it straightened out.
Warlock is right, it's not about right or wrong to these DA's, Cops, etc. The only way to win is to make them look like fools in the courtroom in front of their colleagues. Forget about real justice. It's just a big pissing contest.

[NashvilleBound]

I hear its VERY political in the court system. Picking the right attorney that knows everyone involved can make or break your case. Its probably worth spending the money on a good one...... but thats just what I "hear".:D:idea:

[Kilrtoy]

It is an infraction in Cali, to not provided ins at the time of a traffic stop. But if you do infact have ins , but are unable to present it to the officer, you can go to court and show that the ins was in effect at the time of the stop and Cali law states the citation will be dismissed by the court.

[HokeySon]

Well, I am not going to defend the system. It is what it is.
But here is another way to look at it: The "system" worked for you (in the second instance). It is an adversarial system. You stood up for yourself. The other guy did not. He was either weak or stupid or made a choice that he would rather take a deal than stand up for himself. The system didn't fail him, he failed himself. I have little sympathy for folks that are not willing to stand up for themselves.
What does get my sympathy is where someone is right but doesn't have the wherewithal to fight for their rights. Gotta case right now where my client has a great case, but doesn't have the money to pay me to go to trial next month. That sucks.
"Tort reform"?? Make all the laws you want, but at the end of the day it is 12 citizens "tried and true" that decide how much, if anything, someone is entitled to because something bad happened to them. As long as folks have a "sense of entitlement" and little concept of reality, there are going to be judgments that people will view as ridiculous (both ways).
As for the DA and the FTA. There is no legitimate excuse for a prosecutor pursuing a charge he/she knows is unfounded. You should complain to her supervisor. The FTA warrant was an obvious beaureucratic error which, although inexcusable can happen in any system. I don't know the law in CO, but in CA you can make a claim against the government for their negligence.

[Jbb]

Well, I am not going to defend the system. It is what it is.
But here is another way to look at it: The "system" worked for you (in the second instance). It is an adversarial system. You stood up for yourself. The other guy did not. He was either weak or stupid or made a choice that he would rather take a deal than stand up for himself. The system didn't fail him, he failed himself. I have little sympathy for folks that are not willing to stand up for themselves.
What does get my sympathy is where someone is right but doesn't have the wherewithal to fight for their rights. Gotta case right now where my client has a great case, but doesn't have the money to pay me to go to trial next month. That sucks.
"Tort reform"?? Make all the laws you want, but at the end of the day it is 12 citizens "tried and true" that decide how much, if anything, someone is entitled to because something bad happened to them. As long as folks have a "sense of entitlement" and little concept of reality, there are going to be judgments that people will view as ridiculous (both ways).
As for the DA and the FTA. There is no legitimate excuse for a prosecutor pursuing a charge he/she knows is unfounded. You should complain to her supervisor. The FTA warrant was an obvious beaureucratic error which, although inexcusable can happen in any system. I don't know the law in CO, but in CA you can make a claim against the government for their negligence.
Hey!...:D
What do you call 25 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean...?

[Sleek-Jet]

Hey!...:D
What do you call 25 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean...?
A good start...
Anyone know why they bury lawyers 20 feet in the grave...

[Baja Big Dog]

You guys meet with the DA in Colorado? Thats a little overkill on the states part don't you think?
As mentioned before, (In Cali) you were written for lack of insurance evidence, not driving without insurance, big difference. What was there to plea? You cant be cited for driving without insurance until you cant prove that you had insurance when you got pulled over!!
How could the other guy plea to driving a defective vehicle? Sounds like the DA needs his little pee-pee smacked!!!
Ive got a copy of my last ticket from four years ago stamped by the courts in my wallet just for situations like yours, and oh yea enjoy the dinner you bought for the bond guy, I'm sure the courts ain't gonna give you restitution for that!!:mad:

[YeLLowBoaT]

You guys meet with the DA in Colorado? Thats a little overkill on the states part don't you think?
As mentioned before, (In Cali) you were written for lack of insurance evidence, not driving without insurance, big difference. What was there to plea? You cant be cited for driving without insurance until you cant prove that you had insurance when you got pulled over!!
How could the other guy plea to driving a defective vehicle? Sounds like the DA needs his little pee-pee smacked!!!
Ive got a copy of my last ticket from four years ago stamped by the courts in my wallet just for situations like yours, and oh yea enjoy the dinner you bought for the bond guy, I'm sure the courts ain't gonna give you restitution for that!!:mad:
I would bet a good lawyer could get him some restitution, but expect it to take 3-5 years and in the end the lawyer gets every penny of it.

[Boozer]

You guys meet with the DA in Colorado? Thats a little overkill on the states part don't you think?
As mentioned before, (In Cali) you were written for lack of insurance evidence, not driving without insurance, big difference. What was there to plea? You cant be cited for driving without insurance until you cant prove that you had insurance when you got pulled over!!
How could the other guy plea to driving a defective vehicle? Sounds like the DA needs his little pee-pee smacked!!!
Ive got a copy of my last ticket from four years ago stamped by the courts in my wallet just for situations like yours, and oh yea enjoy the dinner you bought for the bond guy, I'm sure the courts ain't gonna give you restitution for that!!:mad:
In any criminal matter including traffic citations the state of Colorado requires that the deffendant meet with the DA for a pre-trial conference. At the time of the conference the DA will usually offer a plea bargain. If the plea bargain is not accepted the DA will then schedule a trial date.
Between the ages of 18 and 20 I was hell on wheels and spent a LOT of time in the courtroom. I learned a lot of things and different keywords to say to the DA to get a much lesser charge then the average person. I once managed to plea a 12 point citation down to 2 points. Even got a manadatory 1 year license suspension plead down to a 6 week suspension.
These days I drive the speed limit (They WILL cite you for 5 over here), wear my seatbelt, use my turn signals, and abide the law. I also make sure my insurance card and registration are easily accessible at ALL times now.

[Rackman]

A good start...
Anyone know why they bury lawyers 20 feet in the grave...
Because deep down, they're good people...
How do you save a drowning lawyer?

[Biglue]

and oh yea enjoy the dinner you bought for the bond guy, I'm sure the courts ain't gonna give you restitution for that!!:mad:
There's the real kick to the nuts right there. Assuming that we are hearing the entire story (not to say I'm doubting Boozer), which sounds fairly convicing I may add, where does the court system get off dictating you have to spend your money on either A) fines, B) an attorney defending a bullshit charge/plea bargain and C) in this case a bail bond....not to mention any added insurance costs due to the points on your driving record. I find the DA's actions to be a total waste of and disrespect of public money and time as well as the courts'. Why can't they be measured for things as such? I know as an employee, my mistakes matter. Why not in the DA's case. Boozer, I honestly think you should follow up with a supervisor or someone over that jackass' head. You spending a weekend in jail over a court system's error is total bullshit. There has to be a way of holding them accountable. Granted they deal with less than desirables on a daily basis, but that stereotype should not be the norm when dealing with everyone. Just my .02.
Alright, I'd done ranting.

[Tom Brown]

...not to say I'm doubting Boozer....
Well then I'll say it.
Boozer is cool and I don't wish to slam him specifically or personally but how many people are throwing down judgement based on a one sided Internet post? The odds of this thread, or any description of personal injustice, being objective or accurate lay somewhere between slim and none.
All I can do is offer Boozer some sympathy for his trouble and wish him well in the future. It sounds like he's not much the worse for wear so at least that's positive.
The thing is, I have a buddy who used to be a cop. From what I can tell, almost everyone is totally screwed by a completely corrupt system until they listen to an audio recording or watch a video tape that proves they are completely full of shit.

[Jbb]

Well then I'll say it.
Boozer is cool and I don't wish to slam him specifically or personally but how many people are throwing down judgement based on a one sided Internet post? The odds of this thread, or any description of personal injustice, being objective or accurate lay somewhere between slim and none.
All I can do is offer Boozer some sympathy for his trouble and wish him well in the future. It sounds like he's not much the worse for wear so at least that's positive.
The thing is, I have a buddy who used to be a cop. From what I can tell, almost everyone is totally screwed by a completely corrupt system until they listen to an audio recording or watch a video tape that proves they are completely full of shit.
Hey Brown ....knock knock....

[Tom Brown]

Who's there?

[Jbb]

F**k Off...that's who...:D

[Boozer]

Well then I'll say it.
Boozer is cool and I don't wish to slam him specifically or personally but how many people are throwing down judgement based on a one sided Internet post? The odds of this thread, or any description of personal injustice, being objective or accurate lay somewhere between slim and none.
All I can do is offer Boozer some sympathy for his trouble and wish him well in the future. It sounds like he's not much the worse for wear so at least that's positive.
The thing is, I have a buddy who used to be a cop. From what I can tell, almost everyone is totally screwed by a completely corrupt system until they listen to an audio recording or watch a video tape that proves they are completely full of shit.
This post makes a very good point and has given me a really good idea. I'm going to pickup a small tape recorder and in the event that I have any type of run in with the law whatsoever the recorder goes on. I don't know if they allow people to bring their own recorders into the courthouse though. Hopefully this will be the last of my run ins with the man and I'll never have to use it.

[Tom Brown]

F**k Off...that's who...:D
:eek:
This post makes a very good point and has given me a really good idea. I'm going to pickup a small tape recorder and in the event that I have any type of run in with the law whatsoever the recorder goes on. I don't know if they allow people to bring their own recorders into the courthouse though. Hopefully this will be the last of my run ins with the man and I'll never have to use it.
It's a good idea, Boozer. :cool:
If an injustice is done, it will feel good to be able to defend yourself. Law enforcement will have little defense against this kind of physical evidence. I would imagine you would be allowed to bring evidence like this to court. After all, the police are allowed to bring in video tape.
- Tom

[Biglue]

Well then I'll say it.
Boozer is cool and I don't wish to slam him specifically or personally but how many people are throwing down judgement based on a one sided Internet post? The odds of this thread, or any description of personal injustice, being objective or accurate lay somewhere between slim and none.
All I can do is offer Boozer some sympathy for his trouble and wish him well in the future. It sounds like he's not much the worse for wear so at least that's positive.
The thing is, I have a buddy who used to be a cop. From what I can tell, almost everyone is totally screwed by a completely corrupt system until they listen to an audio recording or watch a video tape that proves they are completely full of shit.
Agreed Tom. My rant is mainly at the part where the whole fiasco began on a ticket that the court should have processed a year ago and wasn't. In turn, it led to his story. I don't think he (Boozer) would have reason to create such a huge lie. See what I mean?

[Jbb]

Tom Brown...OC

[HokeySon]

Because deep down, they're good people...
How do you save a drowning lawyer?
Take your foot of his head.
Is that really the best you guys can do?
A few of my favs:
How does an attorney sleep?
First he lies on one side, then he lies on the other.
How many lawyer jokes are there?
Only three. The rest are true stories.
Waht happens when a lawyer takes viagra?
He gets taller.
And, my all time fave:
What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50?
Your Honor.

[Baja Big Dog]

I would bet a good lawyer could get him some restitution, but expect it to take 3-5 years and in the end the lawyer gets every penny of it.
And more!!!

[Baja Big Dog]

Whats the difference between a dead dog, and a dead lawyer in the street?
Skid marks in front of the dog!!!!

[redneckcharlie]

The vast majority of all cities use their magistrate court, as nothing more than a revenue source. Here in NM every traffic stop is initiated with the intent to make the individual appear in court. At the very least its to issue a citation for generating revenue. I'm not referring to drunk drivers and the such, just the bs stuff. Try to find out from your local community how much money the court system takes in on traffic citations. Most communities have learned that there is a ton of money to be collected for citations, but will inevitably never tell you how much. This nonsense is all done under the guise of public safety.:o :o

[phebus]

Boozer= Shit magnet. Shit is always coming your way. :D

[Boozer]

Boozer= Shit magnet. Shit is always coming your way. :D
You have got that right. I'm just hoping karma has finally paid me back for all the rotten shit I did when I was a youngster.

[meaniam]

Back in December of 2005 I was pulled over for driving without a front license plate. The cop who pulled me over was a total jerk and refused to let me look for my insurance card. He then sited me for driving with no insurance.
In January of 06 I appeared in court on the case and provided proof of insurance and the DA said the charge would be dropped. Apparently along the way my papers magically dissapeared. On Friday I was with a friend and he was stopped for speeding, the officer arrested my friend for an FTA on a traffic ticket then decided to harass me and require that I give him all of my information. I was arrested for an FTA for my no insurance ticket (which mind you was suppose to have been dropped almost a year ago) and got to spend the night and most of Saturday in the county jail. I had to pay a bondsman $310 to get me out.
Today I went to court to clear up the matter, once again taking my insurance documents with me. I met with the DA at the same time as another gentleman who was charged with the same thing, he provided his insurance documentation to the DA and was then offered a plea bargain, the DA said that since he provided his proof of insurance he would drop the charge of driving without insurance to driving a defective vehicle which carried 1/2 the points and a fine of $200.00. Mind you this guy HAD insurance and thereby was completely INNOCENT of the no insurance charge. The gentleman clearly wanting to get out of the courthouse and continue on with his day agreed to the plea bargain.
After the gentleman in the DA's office with me signed his paper accepting the plea bargain the DA spoke with me. I gave him my insurance papers, explained that I had already done this once and now spent time in jail and a few hundred bucks over this deal due to the courts mistake. He apologized to me and made me the same offer he made the other gentleman but said for my inconvenience he'd drop the fine to $200. I refused his deal, told him to dismiss the charges or to schedule a trial date. After about 15 minutes of arguing back and forth he finally agreed to dismiss the charge.
This situation got me thinking. How many people are completely taken advantage of on a day to day basis by the Judicial system? The gentleman in the DA's office with me paid $200 and had points added against his driving record after doing nothing wrong other then misplacing his insurance card. The only thing he was really guilty of was ignorance.
I thought the US justice system was suppose to be fair and just. Instead it seems to be more corrupt then the criminals it is suppose to protect us from. Not to mention the fact that they make us pay for not only our mistakes but their mistakes as well!
:mad: :mad: :mad:
something very similar happened to me in 99. i fired my rep who insisted i just agree. and spoke directly with the judge and riverside da. it took all freakin day. and people in the court thought it was funny i was pissed. they all were bent over. i walked. after sayin i wont put up a fine. i rather stay in jail. i rather take this to a jury and waste taxpayers money. then at least i will have a 50/50 chance which is better then they were offering me with my attorney. i had all fees waived and walked free and clear of a fta/ftp charge i had as a minor. that was taken care of 2 years before. the problem was i was a little late on one payment but went to court. i checked agian 6 months later just to make sure it was gone.

[Ziggy]

Somehow I can't seem to grasp why you are always in some sort of legal predicament Boozer:confused: :confused: ...........seems like you're always griping about something and moving all over the country.
Just a little puzzling, that all :)

[LakeTrash]

I know there are good cops out there but ...
The simple truth is that they make money when they screw with the general poulation and they loose money when they chase the real crooks.
That is why there are three patrol cars writing tickets for whatever on the parkway that delivers the working people to thier jobs and only one in the neighborhood where crack is sold like candy.
LT