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BDMar
07-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Does anyone know what oil company supplies the fuel to the Smith's in Havasu?

Not So Fast
07-24-2007, 05:59 PM
Does anyone know what oil company supplies the fuel to the Smith's in Havasu?
May I ask why???

BDMar
07-24-2007, 06:01 PM
Nothing concrete yet. Thinking there may be a problem with the quality/octane.....

Not So Fast
07-24-2007, 06:06 PM
Nothing concrete yet. Thinking there may be a problem with the quality/octane.....
HMMMM? I have been using them since they opened and no problems on either the 496 or the HP500:idea: I know a couple of folks that use them and heard nothing.
Now Super Fuels by Trerribles is another story :(
please let me know what you find OK?? NSF

BDMar
07-24-2007, 06:19 PM
Sent you a pm

Wozencraft
07-24-2007, 06:33 PM
HMMMM? I have been using them since they opened and no problems on either the 496 or the HP500:idea: I know a couple of folks that use them and heard nothing.
Now Super Fuels by Trerribles is another story :(
please let me know what you find OK?? NSF
The last two fill-ups from Super Fuels this year have created knocking/pinging on my boat. I have used them for years and have never experienced any problems since this Summer.
Devin

dicudmore
07-24-2007, 07:04 PM
HMMMM? I have been using them since they opened and no problems on either the 496 or the HP500:idea: I know a couple of folks that use them and heard nothing.
Now Super Fuels by Trerribles is another story :(
please let me know what you find OK?? NSF
I use Smith's gas in my outboards--I'm kind of a rebel I guess :D
Brian if you know something I need to know about please share

voodoomedman
07-24-2007, 07:06 PM
I mostly use Smith's as well so please let me know if there is a problem.
To answer the question I have seen a Flying J truck there or on the way there on multiple occasions.

SummitKarl
07-24-2007, 07:10 PM
Nothing concrete yet. Thinking there may be a problem with the quality/octane.....
plugs looking a little yellow are they?
EFI pump not happy?
sending unit not reading?
High sulfur content;)

Not So Fast
07-25-2007, 07:07 AM
Sent you a pm
Thanks Brian, very interesting but I have been waiting for these kinds of things to rear up what with a load of gas (tanker full) costing more than a gazzilion $$. But what do we do about it, I think it could happen just about with any gas station.:( :( NSF :::::: PS, maybe just an isolated case, I hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BDMar
07-25-2007, 07:24 AM
This year we, as well as other engine builders I have spoken to, have noticed an increase in piston failures in stock as well as modified engines that have many hours of trouble free use. The failures have ALWAYS been after filling up with an "off brand" of fuel. It happened to my relatively stock 502's with 190 hours on them. High end electronics, sequential fire EFI, tuned with a lap top, controlled with O2 sensors. Running perfect until I filled up at Smiths. Not saying they are to blame, just starting the investigation.
Karl, as soon as I looked at the plugs I saw the yellow tint. Sensors and pump are fine........

my21advantage
07-25-2007, 07:27 AM
This year we, as well as other engine builders I have spoken to, have noticed an increase in piston failures in stock as well as modified engines that have many hours of trouble free use. The failures have ALWAYS been after filling up with an "off brand" of fuel. It happened to my relatively stock 502's with 190 hours on them. High end electronics, sequential fire EFI, tuned with a lap top, controlled with O2 sensors. Running perfect until I filled up at Smiths. Not saying they are to blame, just starting the investigation.
Karl, as soon as I looked at the plugs I saw the yellow tint. Sensors and pump are fine........
Is that what happened to the engine a couple of weeks ago???

voodoomedman
07-25-2007, 07:31 AM
This year we, as well as other engine builders I have spoken to, have noticed an increase in piston failures in stock as well as modified engines that have many hours of trouble free use. The failures have ALWAYS been after filling up with an "off brand" of fuel. It happened to my relatively stock 502's with 190 hours on them. High end electronics, sequential fire EFI, tuned with a lap top, controlled with O2 sensors. Running perfect until I filled up at Smiths. Not saying they are to blame, just starting the investigation.
Karl, as soon as I looked at the plugs I saw the yellow tint. Sensors and pump are fine........
Could it be possible that it is just coincidence that it finally went out and it just so happens that they filled up at Smith's last? I'm not trying to defend Smith's but I have been using them for the last couple of years with no problems for a few different reasons. One is the location is convenient, they are the lowest price in town (even lower when we buy groceries) and besides it being owned by a big name I, as mentioned before, have multiple times seen the Flying J truck filling them up. To me it's kind of the same as filling up at Sam's or Costco. Sure they are going to negotiate a good deal but their not going to put some renegade fuel from Mexico in the tanks like Superfuels. Now that's not to say that they aren't having problems with their underground tanks.
I have Smith's in my tanks right now. Would it help at all if you had a sample of it to have it checked or something? If they do have bad stuff then I want to stay away. I don't know if it makes any difference but it was put in my tanks the first week of July and the boat is covered in my garage out there.

Wheeler
07-25-2007, 07:34 AM
The last two fill-ups from Super Fuels this year have created knocking/pinging on my boat. I have used them for years and have never experienced any problems since this Summer.
Devin
My trucks digest Super Fuel's gas fine, however my jeep starts acting up right away.
The jeep is 04 and has the 6 cyl. engine, low mileage, engine starts to surge and at idle, runs poorly and will die.
No problem with their diesel, either in tractor or truck.

Mrs.Racer277
07-25-2007, 08:03 AM
Does anyone know what oil company supplies the fuel to the Smith's in Havasu?
Will you be in Havi this weekend???

BDMar
07-25-2007, 08:09 AM
Is that what happened to the engine a couple of weeks ago???
Yes it is...
Could it be possible that it is just coincidence that it finally went out and it just so happens that they filled up at Smith's last?
I have Smith's in my tanks right now. Would it help at all if you had a sample of it to have it checked or something? If they do have bad stuff then I want to stay away. I don't know if it makes any difference but it was put in my tanks the first week of July and the boat is covered in my garage out there.
Without going into a long explanation here is the short version. The engines were on the lap top the whole weekend so I saw the problems as they started. The pistons didn't just fail, they melted the top ring land. JE pistons don't just melt in a normally aspirated low HP application. As I said I was monitoring it the whole time. As soon as we put Smiths in I noticed O2 sensor (wide band Lambda) readings were changing, VE tables needed modifying, etc.... The failure was not at WOT, just crusing at 3800 to 4000, a very low engine load application.
Fuel is changing these days, we know that for a fact. I have used Smiths for years with no problems. As a matter of fact when the engines were completely stock we used 87 or 89. This was 91. I believe if this was the cause it more than likely is an isolated incident. Maybe the 91 tank accidently had 87 put in? Maybe the company they got that one tank from was one that was not the quality of 76?? I don't know. I do know that we checked all other possibilities and this is the only thing left.
Thanks for the offer of some fuel to test, unfortunatley I have LOTS still in my boat to have tested.:(

BDMar
07-25-2007, 08:10 AM
Will you be in Havi this weekend???
Unfortunately not. Slammed at work and I have an engine to put back together first:D

Mrs.Racer277
07-25-2007, 08:11 AM
Unfortunately not. Slammed at work and I have an engine to put back together first:D
POO! :(
Marks Birthday BBQ :confused:

BDMar
07-25-2007, 08:15 AM
POO! :(
Marks Birthday BBQ :confused:
Maybe I should make a road trip Saturday afternoon......

voodoomedman
07-25-2007, 08:18 AM
Yes it is...
Without going into a long explanation here is the short version. The engines were on the lap top the whole weekend so I saw the problems as they started. The pistons didn't just fail, they melted the top ring land. JE pistons don't just melt in a normally aspirated low HP application. As I said I was monitoring it the whole time. As soon as we put Smiths in I noticed O2 sensor (wide band Lambda) readings were changing, VE tables needed modifying, etc.... The failure was not at WOT, just crusing at 3800 to 4000, a very low engine load application.
Fuel is changing these days, we know that for a fact. I have used Smiths for years with no problems. As a matter of fact when the engines were completely stock we used 87 or 89. This was 91. I believe if this was the cause it more than likely is an isolated incident. Maybe the 91 tank accidently had 87 put in? Maybe the company they got that one tank from was one that was not the quality of 76?? I don't know. I do know that we checked all other possibilities and this is the only thing left.
Thanks for the offer of some fuel to test, unfortunatley I have LOTS still in my boat to have tested.:(
No problem. Thanks for the info. Please keep us updated. I hope it's an isolated incident. I always thought it was good being from a truck stop fuel and it sure is nice when you get an extra 15 cents off. I think the only station that has never had at least one bad thing said about it is the London Bridge Chevron but they must think their $hit don't stink because there prices are the same as the stations in SoCal and even more sometimes. Our vehicles can withstand a little bit of crap in the tank but I worry about all our boats. Luckily I have a stock 496 and not a racer but I still worry everytime.

Mrs.Racer277
07-25-2007, 08:22 AM
Maybe I should make a road trip Saturday afternoon......
I will PM you the addy just in case. It is at Woody's house Pool party. :)
Sorry for the thread jack.:D

BDMar
07-25-2007, 08:27 AM
No problem. Thanks for the info. Please keep us updated. I hope it's an isolated incident. I always thought it was good being from a truck stop fuel and it sure is nice when you get an extra 15 cents off. I think the only station that has never had at least one bad thing said about it is the London Bridge Chevron but they must think their $hit don't stink because there prices are the same as the stations in SoCal and even more sometimes. Our vehicles can withstand a little bit of crap in the tank but I worry about all our boats. Luckily I have a stock 496 and not a racer but I still worry everytime.
With the amount of fuel we go through the savings at Smiths is considerable, especially if you do your shopping there.
You're absolutely right. Vehicles have a much larger cushion for fuel quality. The load on a boat is tremendous which creates cylinder temps to rise, etc. plus they are run at almost twice the RPM's of a car/truck. Add to that performance mods that decrease the margin for fuel quality and you have a recipe for disaster. The 496 has a large margin for fuel quality.
We tell all our customers with our engines to use 76 when possible. Yeah Yeah I know:D

Havasu_Dreamin
07-25-2007, 08:29 AM
Not saying it can't happen at these places, but this is exactly why we fill the boat up at either London Bridge Chevron or the 76 over by Mudsharks.....Although we typically fill up the tow vehicle at the Arco.....Re: the Arco, why the hell do they always have broken pumps? They were just repalced last year!

Baja Big Dog
07-25-2007, 08:39 AM
Yes it is...
Without going into a long explanation here is the short version. The engines were on the lap top the whole weekend so I saw the problems as they started. The pistons didn't just fail, they melted the top ring land. JE pistons don't just melt in a normally aspirated low HP application. As I said I was monitoring it the whole time. As soon as we put Smiths in I noticed O2 sensor (wide band Lambda) readings were changing, VE tables needed modifying, etc.... The failure was not at WOT, just crusing at 3800 to 4000, a very low engine load application.
Fuel is changing these days, we know that for a fact. I have used Smiths for years with no problems. As a matter of fact when the engines were completely stock we used 87 or 89. This was 91. I believe if this was the cause it more than likely is an isolated incident. Maybe the 91 tank accidently had 87 put in? Maybe the company they got that one tank from was one that was not the quality of 76?? I don't know. I do know that we checked all other possibilities and this is the only thing left.
Thanks for the offer of some fuel to test, unfortunatley I have LOTS still in my boat to have tested.:(
First, if you have hard data that makes you believe you have bad fuel, then I wouldn't waste anymore time here talking about your weekend plans etc...get a hold of Smiths NOW!, it is gonna be a problem getting a hold of the right person, but you better take the time. Advise them you have a problem, and you need a sample of the fuel in your boat analyzed, I would advise them both verbally and in writing that you are going to have this done, its not cheap, but neither in the cost o a melt down!! Get some fuel to a lab NOW..before any more contaminants get into the tanks, (moisture etc.)
Advise Smiths you are doing this and they may advise you to possibly send the fuel to a lab they deal with, either way do it NOW!!
These "off brand" stations sometime shop for fuel inventories, and buy at the lowest prices. You will need to tell them the exact day and time you bought the fuel.
Be prepared, they will more than likely not provide you with a blank check to repair your boat, they will more than likely dispute the damage is their problem as they have no control over the fuel you had in the boat/car/truck/Rhino etc prior to buying from them.
did I mention you need to get on this NOW!!, you know strike while the iron is hot.
Now get your as off the keyboard and get on the phone and make sure you keep us informed!!!
Good luck...your gonna need it!:D

SummitKarl
07-25-2007, 08:44 AM
This year we, as well as other engine builders I have spoken to, have noticed an increase in piston failures in stock as well as modified engines that have many hours of trouble free use. The failures have ALWAYS been after filling up with an "off brand" of fuel. It happened to my relatively stock 502's with 190 hours on them. High end electronics, sequential fire EFI, tuned with a lap top, controlled with O2 sensors. Running perfect until I filled up at Smiths. Not saying they are to blame, just starting the investigation.
Karl, as soon as I looked at the plugs I saw the yellow tint. Sensors and pump are fine........
that happens allot out here with EFI motors ......burned valve or hole in the piston.. the "off brands" reek havoc with fuel tank sending units, O2 sensors, plugs and injectors.....it's just worth the extra $1 or 2 on the fill up for the name brand to me...because I still remember the "pay me now or pay me later" commercials;) :D

dimarcobros
07-25-2007, 08:48 AM
Maybe I should make a road trip Saturday afternoon......
You should. I think we might be out there for a little birthday celebration ourselves. :D Depending on the weather of course.
DMB

BDMar
07-25-2007, 09:14 AM
You should. I think we might be out there for a little birthday celebration ourselves. :D Depending on the weather of course.
DMB
I hate being out there without a boat:mad: But birthday celebrations are always a good reason to go!

dimarcobros
07-25-2007, 10:19 AM
I am sure between us and Simon we can squeeze you in. :D If we go that is.
DMB