Pursuit in Phoenix right now

[Not So Fast]

Been watching this for the entirety and 2 news heliocopters are down. The police had a chance to shot this guy when he was jumping out of one truck into another and why they didnt is beyond me, it was an open space and the cop was with in 5-6 feet of the guy with the passenger door open, SHOOT THE MFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now hes loose again and the copters are buring. NSF

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Been watching this for the entirety and 2 news heliocopters are down. The police had a chance to shot this guy when he was jumping out of one truck into another and why they didnt is beyond me, it was an open space and the cop was with in 5-6 feet of the guy with the passenger door open, SHOOT THE MFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now hes loose again and the copters are buring. NSF
does this have to do with the copters crashing trying to cover the chase?

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Been watching this for the entirety and 2 news heliocopters are down. The police had a chance to shot this guy when he was jumping out of one truck into another and why they didnt is beyond me, it was an open space and the cop was with in 5-6 feet of the guy with the passenger door open, SHOOT THE MFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now hes loose again and the copters are buring. NSF
It's easy to arm chair QB without being the officer on the ground.....

[Not So Fast]

It's easy to arm chair QB without being the officer on the ground.....
I watched the whole thing ok and they had many chances to end this, I'm about as pro cop as you can be if you knew anything about me but this was crappy police work, now there are mutilple deaths i would assume from this as the news copters crashed right after the chance was there to take this asshole out. Sorry I have no sympathy. NSF

[AZKC]

So NSF your saying 2 news choppers crashed during this chase in PHX:confused:

[acatitude]

without knowing a few more facts about what the pursuit involved, pretty hard to just blame the cops for not shootin the guy.... Im thinkin you don't just shoot everyone who runs. but maybe ya should lol:)

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I watched the whole thing ok and they had many chances to end this, I'm about as pro cop as you can be if you knew anything about me but this was crappy police work, now there are mutilple deaths i would assume from this as the news copters crashed right after the chance was there to take this asshole out. Sorry I have no sympathy. NSF
All I'm saying is none of us were there.....Nor do we know what the use of force policy is for whatever agency that officer works for.....No, I am not in law enforcement.....No, the police are not responsible for the helicopters crashing.....

[Not So Fast]

All I'm saying is none of us were there.....Nor do we know what the use of force policy is for whatever agency that officer works for.....No, I am not in law enforcement.....No, the police are not responsible for the helicopters crashing.....
I don know policy either but I do know that to allow this this or any pursuit to continue endangering innocent peoples lifes is wrong IMO. Policy has to be changed and take off the gloves. The guy was at gunpoint from 5-6 ft away with the LEO's gun pointed right at him in a rather open construction zone and he opted to not take the shot, yeah I wasnt right there but it sure looked like he cound've ended it right there to me. And how anybody can end a comment with LOL about this situation is, well, I wont say what I think of you:( NSF

[Not So Fast]

AND I"M NOT BLAMING THE COP, just saying what I saw!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe its policy that has to be changed, NO, NOT MAYBE it has to change in regards to pursuits, but a shame this had to happen and now lives are lost:( :( NSF

[acatitude]

the lol had nothing to do with the tragidy of the choppers going down, only about maybe they should be shot......... thank you
so please don't insinuate I am taking this as a joke.... nothing could be farther from the truth....... but I also don't thiink without knowing more facts about why the pursuit was taking place yu just go blasting everyone.... thats a little over the edge also. glad you arent a cop chasing my stupid son who stole a candy bar and decided to shoot him off his bike.
as an afterthought on your idea of policy on pursuits, where I worked we were not allowed to engage in a pursuit on misdameaner chases....without ok from W.C. the thought was not worth it and you'll catch them another day...

[River Lynchmob]

Im thinkin you don't just shoot everyone who runs. but maybe ya should lol:)
Why not? :D

[acatitude]

Why not? :D
Like I said maybe ya should....... just don't want NSF jumpin all over me again

[Racer277]

Doesn't seem the perp or the cops caused the copter crash.
Seems the pilots did.
Maybe this whole licensing thing isn't all it's cracked up to be...

[phebus]

Who knows what was going through the officers mind? We had the view from the helicopter above, and could see the entire scene, but the offficers view was limited, and for all he knew there was another offcer coming up on the other side of the car that would have been in his crossfire.
Tough to get down on the officer.

[Not So Fast]

Like I said maybe ya should....... just don't want NSF jumpin all over me again
OK; maybe I did jump the trigger a little. Here is what I saw and I watched almost all of the chase up to and including the copter crash. The guy was driving on steel wheels for quite a while and sideswiped at least 3 other vehicles, maybe more. The truck was very hard to control. At one point the truck was in a small culdesac and going very slowly, two cruisers were right behind him and had the guy boxed in but then pulled out of his way and let him continue, why I dont know but at that point it seemed very likely that he could have been stopped because as reported there were about 25 cars in pursuit. Fast forward to the perp going into what was described as a construction zone and he pulled into a vacant lot where two other trucks were parked with doors open, he then jumped out of his and into one of the other trucks as a crusier was pulled ever so slightly in front of him, another officer was out of his unit and was standing about 5-6 ft away from the new stolen truck and the passenger door was open at that point, he had his weapon drawn and pointed at the suspect. From what was shown from the helo and it was a pretty wide field of vision he had about as good a shot as one could ever get IMO and for some reason didnt not take it so the guy rammed the patrol unit and sped away, seconds later they said that two helos were down and on fire. Thats what I saw and forgive my brashness but this guy deserved to be shot on sight, if not by hand gun for fear of stray bullets then by shot gun. Any body that thinks otherwise is entitled to their opinion but mine is "shoot the bastard' and maybe save some lives. Thats what I saw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If my opinion isnt yours then thats the way it is. I just hope no one else dies because of POLICY!! NSF

[Keith E. Sayre]

NSF: I agree wiith you 100%. And as NSF said he's about as pro LEO as they get, I'm probably right behind you on that list. And I'm certainly not blaming the deaths of the pilots on the perp
or on the police. To me, one had nothing to do with the other. But as easy as it is to "armchair
quarterback" this deal, I very ignorantly perhaps think that someone shoudl have stopped that guy
when the opportunity was there. Maybe I'm wrong. But when watching these guys on tv, it seems
like there is often times a chance to stop them and they simply let them continue on. But I'm
not trained in their field of work?
Keith Sayre

[Boatcop]

Almost every Police Agency has a policy that prohibits shooting at a moving vehicle or a driver behind the wheel.
There is also Supreme Court decision (Tennessee vs Gardner) that held police responsible for the shooting of a fleeing suspect. In light of that decision, it is prohibited to shoot at a fleeing suspect, unless that suspect presents a "Clear and Present Danger", in that his continued flight is probable to cause death or serious inury to the public.
That cause is usualy held to mean an armed suspect, who has or is extremely likely to kill.
Policies are usually based on court decision. And nearly all of those decisions are found against the Police Agency or the individual Officer involved.

[Schiada76]

Soooooooooo they can't call in air support, say maybe an Apache, and just leave the sucker in a crater?:idea:
Wishfull thinking.:D

[Not So Fast]

Almost every Police Agency has a policy that prohibits shooting at a moving vehicle or a driver behind the wheel.
There is also Supreme Court decision (Tennessee vs Gardner) that held police responsible for the shooting of a fleeing suspect. In light of that decision, it is prohibited to shoot at a fleeing suspect, unless that suspect presents a "Clear and Present Danger", in that his continued flight is probable to cause death or serious inury to the public.
That cause is usualy held to mean an armed suspect, who has or is extremely likely to kill.
Policies are usually based on court decision. And nearly all of those decisions are found against the Police Agency or the individual Officer involved.
As you say BC, policy and it sucks. I understand, but my question is when is something going to really be done to combat the all too occuring chases that endanger many, many lives as they go on and on. The powers that be HAVE TO COME UP WITH A TACTIC TO STOP IT. JMO but damnit, arent people tired of the lowlifes and the danger they represent. And BTW isnt running into a police vehicle with another vehicle considered assault with a very deadly weapon?? If this guy wasnt a clear and present danger then I dont know what is. The rights of criminals out weigh common sense it seems to me!! :( :( NSF

[SnoC653]

As someone mentioned, the police nor the perp caused the crash; the pilots did. That being said, use of deadly force has very strict guidelines. Had the perp been shot, the copters not crashed, and it turned out the guy was just mentally disturbed or was basicly just not of sound mind, what would the public outcry be then. Had the police had tazars and subdued him that way it could have ended differently. They obviously didn't have Tazers nor did the officer who had the shot feel that the use of deadly force was the only solution to the situation. His decision was later supported by the fact they apprehended the suspect without anyone being harmed outside of the aircrews who had thier own accident. If you are getting a speeding ticket and some rubber necker runs into the back end of the car in front of him trying to see what is going on with you, is his accident your fault? What if you were merely changing a tire and someone else hits another car watching you? The two incidents may be related but one certainly did not cause the other.

[cave]

Please, Once you ram a police car you are more than a threat. If you got the balls to try to kill a cop you made your choice. Seams like all these perps do it for the 15 minutes of fame. Very sad day here in the metro area.

[OverKill]

No F**King way. Please tell me this is just a RUMOR. I here the guy they were chasing was in fact an Illeagle.