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Stoneman
07-30-2007, 11:41 AM
can answer a simple question for me. I am trying to have a house built in the refuge at Havasu.
The problem is that some of the builders are telling me that they need to add about 100K to the price of the house compared to what it would cost if built in the city.
Their main reason for the cost increase is for changing the roof line to meet refuge requirements and added concrete reenforcement. I went and looked at a freshly poured foundation and the concrete was about 8 inches thick and had 1/4 inch re bar ties into a grid at 16 inches.
My guess is the roof line could cost maybe 5k more and 1.5k more for concrete work. Are my numbers incorrect, if so, what should it be.
Also, since the homes are holding a price of about 100k over homes in town, I think that is the real reason for the price increase.
Plus I have looked into all the rumors about the ground and found no factual evidence that the problem exist. I was told that some of the Nationwide homes had/have problems but that was the only builder to have them and it was limited to the first few homes they built. Nationwide is no longer building homes at the Refuge.

Mr. Crusader 83
07-30-2007, 11:44 AM
There are some houses that have started sinking out there. But the roof line is new to me

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 11:48 AM
There are some houses that have started sinking out there. But the roof line is new to me
I have talked to quite a residences and home builders, only one said it was anything more than rumor. The one said it was only the nationwide homes.
I would think the reinforced concrete would solve any foundation issues.

YeLLowBoaT
07-30-2007, 11:57 AM
There is more too it then that.
If its out in the "bounies" you will pay for the contractors travel cost. ( matieral delivery also tends to sting)Also most areas that are near streams/parks/ refuges/ other tend to make you do envro impact studies. Some of those are ez and cheap. others are not. They also tend to have other code issues that are not normal.

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 12:07 PM
There is more too it then that.
If its out in the "bounies" you will pay for the contractors travel cost. ( matieral delivery also tends to sting)Also most areas that are near streams/parks/ refuges/ other tend to make you do envro impact studies. Some of those are ez and cheap. others are not. They also tend to have other code issues that are not normal.
this is a planned community located with in .5 mile of city of lake havasu. No EIS required to build. However there is a 1% fee that has to be payed to the refuge.

YeLLowBoaT
07-30-2007, 12:09 PM
Well then he is ether tring to skrew you or there is something else you don't know about. You could find out really fast with one trip to the county offices.

Havasu Carrera
07-30-2007, 12:13 PM
YOU"R crackin me up!!! Havasu Builders are DESPERATE!!!!!!!! Some are comon thieves!! After 30 years building homes in Havasu my builder is looking at JAIL time. Possibly PRISON!! He has 14 cases with the Registraur of contracotrs....... Come by my house in Havasu and see the work and the origional contract. Then see the amount I PAID and how much of the work was done CORRECT or by plan. The word is that contracts in AZ are ESTIMATES..... Not guarantees. Also they have the last call and can use THIER own descretion as to what they actually do vs. the plans.... I am sure not ALL of the contractors live this way but mine lost his lic. Paid a few fines. Claimed B.K. and now the IRS is on his a.... And guess who's going to take all thats left of his Worthless ... Anyone that wants to call bs PM me and I will give you the adress and the builders name when they wanna come over for FULL varification of ALL my facts. LAST but not least. PROTECT YOUR BUTT prior because it will be a 2 year fight to try to recover a small part of your losses. Now why is violence illegal? Good luck on your build in Havi.:mad:
The ans to your question is YOUR GETTIN FU>>>> already. Get used to it.

tcook33
07-30-2007, 12:20 PM
It's nonsense. It might cost a little more to build, but not $100K more. They are doing it because they can. Good luck!

phebus
07-30-2007, 12:20 PM
I thought they were using tensioned slabs in the Refuge due to soil conditions. I was told that was what Nationwide was doing with their homes.

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 12:23 PM
I thought they were using tensioned slabs in the Refuge due to soil conditions. I was told that was what Nationwide was doing with their homes.
I don't know what a tensioned slab is so can't answer that. I know the slabs are deeper at the corners and have re bar in them. Plus they have to use a pumper since they can't drive on the lots with the trucks.

Havasu Carrera
07-30-2007, 12:42 PM
I don't know what a tensioned slab is so can't answer that. I know the slabs are deeper at the corners and have re bar in them. Plus they have to use a pumper since they can't drive on the lots with the trucks.
Re-bar, an extra yard of concrete, a pumper and say a load of 2by6 Yep easy a hundred k more. OH and a extra box of nails!! I bet this builder of his gets him for a clean $200k in the end. Heck he may get more out of this nice guy. Sorry my butt still hurts and will for years to come. Due to my looser builder and his cronie. Oh wait NOT a looser he got my $$$

Roaddogg 4040
07-30-2007, 12:42 PM
I don't know what a tensioned slab is so can't answer that. I know the slabs are deeper at the corners and have re bar in them. Plus they have to use a pumper since they can't drive on the lots with the trucks.
Still not worth $100K... You are gettin hosed...
Steve

Cole Trickle
07-30-2007, 12:48 PM
Re-bar, an extra yard of concrete, a pumper and say a load of 2by6 Yep easy a hundred k more. OH and a extra box of nails!! I bet this builder of his gets him for a clean $200k in the end. Heck he may get more out of this nice guy. Sorry my butt still hurts and will for years to come. Due to my looser builder and his cronie. Oh wait NOT a looser he got my $$$
What was the big things they screwed you on?
The reason I ask is a lady that works for me built a house in AZ (Not Havi) and when the house was completed they forgot to add the 10x12' office that was in the model/plans....
I think she got a free toaster or blender for the inconvience.:mad: :(

Chubby4Life
07-30-2007, 12:49 PM
I don't know what a tensioned slab is so can't answer that. I know the slabs are deeper at the corners and have re bar in them. Plus they have to use a pumper since they can't drive on the lots with the trucks.
P.M. Summitkarl, he can answer your questions.

Schiada76
07-30-2007, 01:16 PM
Post tensioned slabs are more expensive but not 100K.
All slabs shold have rebar in them, mesh sucks. You said 1/4" rebar? Are you sure it's not mesh or #3 bar (3/8")?
Check and see if for some reason they are not specing or trying to sell you a structural slab.

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 01:19 PM
Post tensioned slabs are more expensive but not 100K.
All slabs shold have rebar in them, mesh sucks. You said 1/4" rebar? Are you sure it's not mesh or #3 bar (3/8")?
Check and see if for some reason they are not specing or trying to sell you a structural slab.
Could be 3/8", what would that add to the cost of the house 1k or maybe 2K?

AZJD
07-30-2007, 01:33 PM
YOU"R crackin me up!!! Havasu Builders are DESPERATE!!!!!!!! Some are comon thieves!! After 30 years building homes in Havasu my builder is looking at JAIL time. Possibly PRISON!! He has 14 cases with the Registraur of contracotrs....... Come by my house in Havasu and see the work and the origional contract. Then see the amount I PAID and how much of the work was done CORRECT or by plan. The word is that contracts in AZ are ESTIMATES..... Not guarantees. Also they have the last call and can use THIER own descretion as to what they actually do vs. the plans.... I am sure not ALL of the contractors live this way but mine lost his lic. Paid a few fines. Claimed B.K. and now the IRS is on his a.... And guess who's going to take all thats left of his Worthless ... Anyone that wants to call bs PM me and I will give you the adress and the builders name when they wanna come over for FULL varification of ALL my facts. LAST but not least. PROTECT YOUR BUTT prior because it will be a 2 year fight to try to recover a small part of your losses. Now why is violence illegal? Good luck on your build in Havi.:mad:
The ans to your question is YOUR GETTIN FU>>>> already. Get used to it.
Hit the nail right on the head! No pun intended..............
Changing a roof line requires new drawings and re-engineering of the house. If you are buying a track home, these have already been done. If this is a one off spec, then I could see you being responsible for those costs.
Is the roof line being raised or lowered? Why the 8" thick concrete with rebar increase? Added concrete cost would be minimal....
If they were trying to stop houses from sinking they would use footings and/or case-ons! Thicker concrete doesn't help if the ground is soft or there is a lack of compaction. It will simply pro long the inevidable!

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 01:38 PM
Hit the nail right on the head! No pun intended..............
Changing a roof line requires new drawings and re-engineering of the house. If you are buying a track home, these have already been done. If this is a one off spec, then I could see you being responsible for those costs.
Is the roof line being raised or lowered? Why the 8" thick concrete with rebar increase? Added concrete cost would be minimal....
If they were trying to stop houses from sinking they would use footings and/or case-ons! Thicker concrete doesn't help if the ground is soft or there is a lack of compaction. It will simply pro long the inevidable!
Roof line can not be more than 50ft without elevation change, just a look not effecting the high of the roof. Or roof could be flat, or combination of the two.
Homes are not sinking, compaction is better than out in town, mostly rumor started by builders that can not build in development.

YeLLowBoaT
07-30-2007, 01:53 PM
Post tensioned slabs add between 25-40%( or alot more depending on code) to the cost of foundations.( all depending on size) The roof deal does add alot( more then you would think) now they can't just pull a truse plan out of thier book, they have to design them which will add alot to the cost ( little as 10% to more then 200%, depending on what needs to be doen) or you can have a funky roof with a bunch of sides and gables = more money to. Still sounds kind of high.

Relaxalot
07-30-2007, 02:05 PM
Price out the plan with another builder. This general has given you his price and that's what it is. If you can find a reputable builder to do it for less go for it. I think he is probably pricing to the market. The same house built in Hesperia will be less than the same house built in Newport Beach.

tcook33
07-30-2007, 02:20 PM
I thought they were using tensioned slabs in the Refuge due to soil conditions. I was told that was what Nationwide was doing with their homes.
It's pretty common that all tract homes are post-tension. It limits liability to the builders and doesn't cost really any more money.
If there is an issue with the houses sinking, I would be a little cautious because a PT slab will not stop the structure from sinking. The only way your structure will not sink is if its sitting on caissons.
The different roof lines could get a little spendy with design, engineering, and permits. But not 100K worth.
Bottom line is they are adding the premium because they can. If Wal-Mart could get away with and extra .25 per pack of hangers, they would. It's all about who the market is. The Refuge caters to a market that has money.....

Schiada76
07-30-2007, 02:23 PM
Could be 3/8", what would that add to the cost of the house 1k or maybe 2K?
A reputable builder would have speced #3 or #4 bar in the slab to begin with but it would be a minimal upcharge if he considers it an upgrade.
The bulders in The Refuge all knew the covenants and restrictions going in so I would have to call bullshit on the roof design extra unless you brought in your own plans and had them approved.

Biglue
07-30-2007, 02:29 PM
Hey Steve, there's a forum member who does a lot of Havasu real estate. Can't remember her name but I think she started the "buy our lives for a million dollars" thread last week. She has been known to be very helpful to several forum members, perhaps she can give you the advice you need......not the drinking advice you need but for the house build. :D
Good luck.

AZJD
07-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Also be sure where you measured was 8" Alot of the time they will make the perimeter of the slab thicker for structural purposes. The middle may only be 6"......
Post tension concrete. I was not aware that they were putting this technology into tract homes.. I am not saying that they aren't, but is everyone sure they know what post tension is? Seems like overkill for a family dwelling.

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 02:39 PM
Hey Steve, there's a forum member who does a lot of Havasu real estate. Can't remember her name but I think she started the "buy our lives for a million dollars" thread last week. She has been known to be very helpful to several forum members, perhaps she can give you the advice you need......not the drinking advice you need but for the house build. :D
Good luck.
Hey lue, I'm willing to trade a margarita or two for some good advise. I know who your talking about. I talked to her a few months back, she said it would cost more to get a house built there but should hold it's value better.
I just want to know how much I should offer to pay these guys based on their in town cost. I'm thinking about 10k more to start and my top is 20k more.
one other thing that worries me, is the possibility of these builders going BK. I expect the market to get much worse before it gets better.

TCHB
07-30-2007, 02:50 PM
The contractor that build my garage has built many homes in the Refuge and is doing a couple now. He is honest and will tell you the real scoop.
PM me and I will give you his number and he may be able to help.

HokeySon
07-30-2007, 02:50 PM
one other thing that worries me, is the possibility of these builders going BK. I expect the market to get much worse before it gets better.
Get a completion bond. Can be expensive, but if you are that worried, it may be money well spent. Another alterntive it to have the GC submit for a bond, but not actually buy the bond. If they can bond the job, you have some assurance because the bonding company will have looked at the deal to make sure it could get done. Of course, the GC may just tell you to forget it, getting a bond can be a pain and lots of GC's don't want to mess with one for a house.

Sherpa
07-30-2007, 03:11 PM
Also be sure where you measured was 8" Alot of the time they will make the perimeter of the slab thicker for structural purposes. The middle may only be 6"......
Post tension concrete. I was not aware that they were putting this technology into tract homes.. I am not saying that they aren't, but is everyone sure they know what post tension is? Seems like overkill for a family dwelling.
I first saw PTC foundations being done while living in Austin Tx in early 90's.
the san jose bay area new multi-story homes are mostly now built using post
tension slabs...... alot of them.........
not so new anymore........ additional costs shouldn't be 100k, or even close.
maybe 5-10k for additional cabling, extra mud, later-work for tensioning, etc.
--doesn't affect a damn thing about foundation sinking... it's all about crack
controll......
--Sherpa

Ziggy
07-30-2007, 04:20 PM
Hey Steve, there's a forum member who does a lot of Havasu real estate. Can't remember her name but I think she started the "buy our lives for a million dollars" thread last week. She has been known to be very helpful to several forum members, perhaps she can give you the advice you need......not the drinking advice you need but for the house build. :D
Good luck.
That'd be Michelle, aka Ms Havasu on the boards....and if not mistaken she started her RE career out at the Refuge

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 04:27 PM
That'd be Michelle, aka Ms Havasu on the boards....and if not mistaken she started her RE career out at the Refuge
I think that is correct. Talked to her awhile back, didn't know about actual cost to build compared to out in town.

Ziggy
07-30-2007, 04:42 PM
I think that is correct. Talked to her awhile back, didn't know about actual cost to build compared to out in town.
And you know you'd get a straight up answer from her. :)

tcook33
07-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Post tension concrete. I was not aware that they were putting this technology into tract homes.. I am not saying that they aren't, but is everyone sure they know what post tension is? Seems like overkill for a family dwelling.
Not as tech as you think. More of a "production" thing than "custom".
I've built over a hundred custom homes from Calabasas to Malibu to Beverly Park ranging from 5K feet to 30K feet. Never used PT once.
90% of the newer (90's on) tracts from here to the valley to the beach have PT slabs.

Roaddogg 4040
07-30-2007, 05:01 PM
And you know you'd get a straight up answer from her. :)
That is the straight scoop on Michelle. She is the one to talk to...
Steve

AZJD
07-30-2007, 05:16 PM
Not as tech as you think. More of a "production" thing than "custom".
I've built over a hundred custom homes from Calabasas to Malibu to Beverly Park ranging from 5K feet to 30K feet. Never used PT once.
90% of the newer (90's on) tracts from here to the valley to the beach have PT slabs.
I guess that's what can happen in 8 years of being out of the building side of construction.....
I had never seen it done on small homes. I used to work on large homes in Pacific Palisades, Brentwood, Bev Hills etc etc.... and on those homes when being poured on a hillside with caissons we would use them, but never on small 1-3k sq ft homes.

tcook33
07-30-2007, 05:28 PM
I used to work on large homes in Pacific Palisades, Brentwood, Bev Hills etc etc.... and on those homes when being poured on a hillside with caissons we would use them, but never on small 1-3k sq ft homes.
HAHA! Very weird. I've been in that same area for the last 12 or so years and have never seen PT in any of the homes (hillside or flat). I've only seen it in tract homes in the flatlands.....Funny how we both have been in the same area with 2 opposite ends of the spectrum in regards to concrete.
I'd actually like to get some more insight and history behind PT in the So-Cal area.

TheCarDudes
07-30-2007, 05:28 PM
Our last 2 homes in Simi Valley both had post tension slabs. One was in Wood Ranch built in 1992 and the other was in Fountainwood estates near Bridle Path. That home was built in 1988 and definitely a tract home, 3007 sq ft.
Our current home in T.O. was built in 2003. It also is a tract home with PT slab.
Dead giveaway is the red sign on the wall not to cut the concrete. You can also tell by looking on the outside of the foundation at the perimiter.

Havasu1986
07-30-2007, 05:35 PM
Also be sure where you measured was 8" Alot of the time they will make the perimeter of the slab thicker for structural purposes. The middle may only be 6"......
Post tension concrete. I was not aware that they were putting this technology into tract homes.. I am not saying that they aren't, but is everyone sure they know what post tension is? Seems like overkill for a family dwelling.
Not sure about post tension is in residential. But in commercial it is used when building parking structure and in the old days office buildings. When there installing the rebar they run a big cable end to end every 5' or so. Then they pour the concrete. Then at some point they hook up this machine at the 1 end of the building and it streches the cable really tight. In most cases when we are working on a post tension jobs we will set our inserts for our hangers and pipe sleeves ahead of the pour. Because you don't want to core or drill thru a cable. :(

tcook33
07-30-2007, 05:42 PM
Dead giveaway is the red sign on the wall not to cut the concrete. You can also tell by looking on the outside of the foundation at the perimiter.
Or a stamp in the corner of the garage.
I worked on a semi-custom tract in Calabasas about 5 years ago and the plumber cut through a cable while moving some drain lines around. The whole corner of the house pulled away from the rest of the house. They shut the job down for a week and brought in a bunch of engineers for some educational "on-site" lessons. Pretty crazy sh*t.

Infamous
07-30-2007, 05:44 PM
Havalife can you chime in here?

YeLLowBoaT
07-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Or a stamp in the corner of the garage.
I worked on a semi-custom tract in Calabasas about 5 years ago and the plumber cut through a cable while moving some drain lines around. The whole corner of the house pulled away from the rest of the house. They shut the job down for a week and brought in a bunch of engineers for some educational "on-site" lessons. Pretty crazy sh*t.
so did they jack the house and have it repored??? I was on a complete remodel a few years back when a plumber did that. Ended up costing about 90k to have the house jacked. the old foundation removed and a new one pored.

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 06:17 PM
What you guys are talking about with PT slabs is not what I saw at the refuge. that house had a big foundation at least 3000 sq ft. I think it's just a lot of reinforced concrete with deep footings on the corners.

Rocknpalms
07-30-2007, 06:39 PM
Check out my web site http://www.saberleveling.com we do foundation stabilization and leveling on existing foundations or we install helical anchors for new construction foundation stabilization for homes/building on weak soils.
The guys would love a trip out to Havasu.

Rocknpalms
07-30-2007, 06:40 PM
Check out my web site http://www.saberleveling.com we do foundation stabilization and leveling on existing foundations or we install helical anchors for new construction foundation stabilization for homes/building on weak soils.
The guys would love a trip out to Havasu.
Click on foundation piering

AZJD
07-30-2007, 06:44 PM
Not sure about post tension is in residential. But in commercial it is used when building parking structure and in the old days office buildings. When there installing the rebar they run a big cable end to end every 5' or so. Then they pour the concrete. Then at some point they hook up this machine at the 1 end of the building and it streches the cable really tight. In most cases when we are working on a post tension jobs we will set our inserts for our hangers and pipe sleeves ahead of the pour. Because you don't want to core or drill thru a cable. :(
Or in my case back in the day, saw cut through one.....:D
I know what post tension is. I was making sure the people on here knew. I hadn't seen it used on the standard 1800sq ft family home so i was curious if everyone was sure of what they were saying.

AZJD
07-30-2007, 06:47 PM
HAHA! Very weird. I've been in that same area for the last 12 or so years and have never seen PT in any of the homes (hillside or flat). I've only seen it in tract homes in the flatlands.....Funny how we both have been in the same area with 2 opposite ends of the spectrum in regards to concrete.
I'd actually like to get some more insight and history behind PT in the So-Cal area.
Did a little research and found this! Kinda answers our questions.:D
http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=640

Stoneman
07-30-2007, 06:53 PM
Check out my web site http://www.saberleveling.com we do foundation stabilization and leveling on existing foundations or we install helical anchors for new construction foundation stabilization for homes/building on weak soils.
The guys would love a trip out to Havasu.
I really doubt the ground is any worse than any other place in town, This whole place is sand and rocks. there are some serious homes built out there, many owned by builders that can't build there. Other's owned by real estate brokers as a primary residence. I know of one house that is owned by a big developer from Orange county. So if there is issues, my guess these folks would know and not build there.
Nationwide is a production home builder, IMO they would most likely be the ones to cut corners and do an insufficient foundation.

tcook33
07-30-2007, 07:28 PM
so did they jack the house and have it repored??? I was on a complete remodel a few years back when a plumber did that. Ended up costing about 90k to have the house jacked. the old foundation removed and a new one pored.
Oh yeah? It was a 2 story and that particular corner went all the way through the second floor. It was a pretty serious and costly fix. I was the concrete contractor AND framing contractor on the job, so we did all the fixes. It was quite interesting to say the least. It probably cost the plumber about 75K.

hava life
07-30-2007, 08:14 PM
You won't see to many post tension slabs in Havasu. I can't think of 1. Most of the soil is not expansive so it would not be recommended by a soils engineer. Most every tract home I built in Cali. since about 1988 has been post tension.
At the Refuge there has been rumors from the beginning that houses were sinking. I have not seen that on houses that I have looked at and I have looked at a lot of houses out there.
I would recommend at least getting a soils report for your lot this will give you suggestions. If you need help give me a P.M. and I will talk to you about this.
There is a height limit as far as I know so who did the plans for your house? Any architect that is drawing plans should know that there are requirements for structures whenever drawing plans. Not only the architectural committee design review board but you also have landscape designs that need to be reviewed and approved.
Truss calcs do not cost much to get drawn and designed. Most of the time you won't see the cost when you buy the trusses from who designs them. Don't forget that if your plans get approved at the county you have to use the approved truss design. Most of the engineers stamp for quit a few truss companies so you could use trusses from a different company.
It sounds like the general is trying to get money out of you so unless you drew the plans and had your own truss calcs. done I don't see where you would have any extra money to pay.

Stoneman
07-31-2007, 05:51 AM
You won't see to many post tension slabs in Havasu. I can't think of 1. Most of the soil is not expansive so it would not be recommended by a soils engineer. Most every tract home I built in Cali. since about 1988 has been post tension.
At the Refuge there has been rumors from the beginning that houses were sinking. I have not seen that on houses that I have looked at and I have looked at a lot of houses out there.
I would recommend at least getting a soils report for your lot this will give you suggestions. If you need help give me a P.M. and I will talk to you about this.
There is a height limit as far as I know so who did the plans for your house? Any architect that is drawing plans should know that there are requirements for structures whenever drawing plans. Not only the architectural committee design review board but you also have landscape designs that need to be reviewed and approved.
Truss calcs do not cost much to get drawn and designed. Most of the time you won't see the cost when you buy the trusses from who designs them. Don't forget that if your plans get approved at the county you have to use the approved truss design. Most of the engineers stamp for quit a few truss companies so you could use trusses from a different company.
It sounds like the general is trying to get money out of you so unless you drew the plans and had your own truss calcs. done I don't see where you would have any extra money to pay.
I have yet to see a house that is sinking myself. One source told me that they knew first hand that it was a nationwide home that had foundation problems.
we were offered a copy of the compaction report when we purchased the lot, it is on file at the refuge.

franky
07-31-2007, 06:00 AM
Stoneman, may I ask who the builder is?

hava life
07-31-2007, 07:48 AM
Stoneman
I have yet to see a house that is sinking myself. One source told me that they knew first hand that it was a nationwide home that had foundation problems.
we were offered a copy of the compaction report when we purchased the lot, it is on file at the refuge.
A compaction report will give you information on the testing that was performed at the time of rough grading.
Those lots have been sitting for a few years and any compaction in a sandy soil condition needs moisture. You will have no moisture on that lot after a couple of days from the time the report was done.
Nationwide Homes has not had any proven issues that I have heard of. From what I know there was only normal settling (stucco cracks and concrete slab hairlines)
Any time you pour concrete or do stucco you will have cracks. I have never seen a slab without hairline cracks even with post tension which is always a higher strength concrete.
The most important thing to do is be sure that you are getting all the information that is needed to build the house properly. If you used your own architect and structural engineer they will need information to draw the plans, CC&R's will be a good start for the architect and a soils report, not a compaction report, will be a start for the structural engineer who is the person that will design your slab and all the connections for framing.

hava life
07-31-2007, 09:07 PM
Infamous Havalife can you chime in here?
Well, where did everyone go:confused: :confused:
Helical Anchors or piers IMO would be a bit overkill. After the design and setting of the piers you would be looking at big $$$. PT slab for this area would be a good idea in my opinion. Suncoast engineering is who I have used in the past. As I said earlier I have not seen a PT slab at the Refugee or in Havasu that comes to mind.
Who drew the plans to where you need to chip in another $100,000:confused: And do you have any structural plans?? If you do not have these 2 then what is the extra:confused: Was there a conceptual drawing or something? It seems pretty steep on the price to me.

Stoneman
08-01-2007, 07:01 AM
Well, where did everyone go:confused: :confused:
Helical Anchors or piers IMO would be a bit overkill. After the design and setting of the piers you would be looking at big $$$. PT slab for this area would be a good idea in my opinion. Suncoast engineering is who I have used in the past. As I said earlier I have not seen a PT slab at the Refugee or in Havasu that comes to mind.
Who drew the plans to where you need to chip in another $100,000:confused: And do you have any structural plans?? If you do not have these 2 then what is the extra:confused: Was there a conceptual drawing or something? It seems pretty steep on the price to me.
The plans have already been drawn and they are refuge approved. We need to lose one foot of width, our build envelope is 69' wide the plan is 70'. We were told 3500 for plan change, and 3500 for engineering. Then 90k more than build price out in town, for roof line changes (very little if any change) and concrete work. I can imagine the lot sinking rumors work for both builders that can and can not build on the Refuge. A builder that can not build on the refuge says the lots are unstable and would not build there. A builder that can build on the refuge says lots are ok but need a lot of extra concrete work which means $$$ for them.
We did talk to one builder that we really respect and has a very good reputation. He is known for his high end homes, quality and honesty, but he is a little out of our price range.

My Man's Sportin' Wood
08-01-2007, 07:04 AM
SW here:
almost 20 years in the Ca. construction biz as a plumber and various job titles.
Post tension is for expansive soil as stated above. Its not that big of a deal. I do know a few builders who use it as a standard to help with the liability of all the flooring they install( Cracks)
My first home was one of the Famous Murrieta sinking homes back in the 90's. Post tension would not really have helped. The fix was to drill holes down to bed rock and pump the house back up with some sort of slurry.
Bad grading and alluvial (sp) fan was the reason the houses sank.
I think there may be more to the story 100,000 more is a lot of money for some concrete and trusses. Are there addition permits or a special assesment to build there? Is there a fee the builder has to pay to the developer? Bond for streets that gets included in the construction costs?
As for PT lines getting cut. I have heard all sorts of urban legends about cables ripping thru houses and tearing out of houses, people being cut and half and plenty of doom and gloom. But my experience as a plumber has been pretty uneventful. I have had people that work under me cut all sorts of cables over the years ( mostly because they are dumb asses) Nothing ever happened. The cables are spread out in increments. IMHO you would have to cut multiple cables for any negitive effect. The two on each side would still hold tension.
My experience with GC's has been pretty shitty over the years. I'm fairly convinced they are most all crooks. From the guy who builds one home a year to the national corperations that build 1000's. They all screw everyone involved. The only ones that I can say where a pleasure to work with where the ones that did a part of the work themselves. e.g. the framing, plumbing, concrete. Check plenty of references before you sign the contract. I would consider making them post a performance bond. Not You... Them! A well drafted Payment schedule with his work schedule in writting would be a safe compromise, I would think. Just remember the longer it takes to build and the more you change things the more it will cost you.
Good luck.

Havasu1986
08-01-2007, 07:43 AM
The plans have already been drawn and they are refuge approved. We need to lose one foot of width, our build envelope is 69' wide the plan is 70'. We were told 3500 for plan change, and 3500 for engineering. Then 90k more than build price out in town, for roof line changes (very little if any change) and concrete work. I can imagine the lot sinking rumors work for both builders that can and can not build on the Refuge. A builder that can not build on the refuge says the lots are unstable and would not build there. A builder that can build on the refuge says lots are ok but need a lot of extra concrete work which means $$$ for them.
We did talk to one builder that we really respect and has a very good reputation. He is known for his high end homes, quality and honesty, but he is a little out of our price range.
$7000 to fix a problem that should have been caught by the Architect in the 1st place. :( When I was building my RV garage and the field inspector found a problem. I took the plans back to the structural eng. and he fixed it for free.

Stoneman
08-01-2007, 07:47 AM
$7000 to fix a problem that should have been caught by the Architect in the 1st place. :( When I was building my RV garage and the field inspector found a problem I took the plans back to the structural eng. and he fixed it for free.
No, no, no. Working off existing plans drawn for someone else at the Refuge. We would need to make minor changes only.
sport'n wood, there is a 1% fee charged by the Refuge to build, that is the only fee I'm aware of.

rocket98
08-01-2007, 08:32 AM
I think that you need to get from the developer, a copy of the Geo-tech report. This will show you what the developer had to do when building the pad. You also should have a pad certification stamped by the engineer. Check to see when the pad cert. expires. They may have to scarify the top 12" and recompact. I built 98 homes last year using post-tension. The cost for the slab was about 25% to 30% more. That is about $3.00 more per Sq. Ft. Most PT slabs have a turn-down at the perimeter usually 12". The extra money that your General Contractor is asking for sounds way to high to me. Try asking for documentation for the increase. With the way your builder is acting now will be how he will be thru-out your project. A good builder would have no problem showing you the paperwork for a cost increase. He will add overhead/profit to it.
Find out what this is. So in the future, everyone is on the same page. I hope that this will not turn into a cluster f**k.

SummitKarl
08-01-2007, 08:35 AM
The plans have already been drawn and they are refuge approved. We need to lose one foot of width, our build envelope is 69' wide the plan is 70'. We were told 3500 for plan change, and 3500 for engineering. Then 90k more than build price out in town, for roof line changes (very little if any change) and concrete work. I can imagine the lot sinking rumors work for both builders that can and can not build on the Refuge. A builder that can not build on the refuge says the lots are unstable and would not build there. A builder that can build on the refuge says lots are ok but need a lot of extra concrete work which means $$$ for them.
We did talk to one builder that we really respect and has a very good reputation. He is known for his high end homes, quality and honesty, but he is a little out of our price range.
WOW!!!!..sounds like Graphic Concepts drew those plans :rolleyes: I really need to raise my prices::D ....$1800 gets you single story plans from scratch( $1200 for HB members;) ) and engineering is $0.45 per sq/ft under roof (if required)

framer1
08-01-2007, 08:46 AM
Stoneman,I have a lot at the Refuge. How many general contractors can actually build in the project. I think it was only five when I bought the lot. How many have you talked to. $100'000 extra is way out of line. Seems like if the soil is bad they could over ex. and bring in some base and recompact....unless it different from where I live.

Stoneman
08-01-2007, 03:53 PM
Stoneman,I have a lot at the Refuge. How many general contractors can actually build in the project. I think it was only five when I bought the lot. How many have you talked to. $100'000 extra is way out of line. Seems like if the soil is bad they could over ex. and bring in some base and recompact....unless it different from where I live.
Framer, we have talked to all of them that can currently build there now. Lowest bid has been 175.00 sq ft for a 1800 sq ft house w/ RV garage. One said they will not a build a house for less than 350k. Others told us 200.00 to 400.00 sq ft. (shortest conversation of all the builders).
We are going to wait for the prices to fall. Maybe a couple of years before we build. Also, there was another company that bought the golf course and all of the land to the southeast. It wouldn't be a stretch for them to start building there.

nodigg
08-01-2007, 04:04 PM
That'd be Michelle, aka Ms Havasu on the boards....and if not mistaken she started her RE career out at the Refuge
Did I read she has her personal home on the market right now?
OFF TOPIC!

Stoneman
08-01-2007, 04:14 PM
WOW!!!!..sounds like Graphic Concepts drew those plans :rolleyes: I really need to raise my prices::D ....$1800 gets you single story plans from scratch( $1200 for HB members;) ) and engineering is $0.45 per sq/ft under roof (if required)
Yes you should, one builder quoted us 15k for plans, and another quoted us 9k.
but that did include engineering.
How do these guys sleep at night?

nodigg
08-01-2007, 04:16 PM
Yes you should, one builder quoted us 15k for plans, and another quoted us 9k.
but that did include engineering.
How do these guys sleep at night?
Summitkarl had my stomach churning. I paid right at 10k for plans and engineering. 6,000 sq feet under roof. At least I am in the range you were quoted?!:(

christhomas2
08-01-2007, 04:19 PM
I am a Concrete Foundation contractor in So Cal. P/T is cheaper than conventional, and is used primarily for expansive soil areas. The refuge is sand, and the only fix is caissons into competent soil or mat foundations. $100,000.00 more won't fix your problems! Hire a reputable geotecnical firm, and if your house sinks they bought it.

2manymustangs
08-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Big Proppa should be able to give you some good advice and point you toward some good contractors, he da man...

nodigg
08-01-2007, 04:21 PM
I always felt most of the problems out here with slabs starts with the supposed 2500 psi concrete being used. Arrives at apx 2500 depending upon the left over previous delivery watered down mix that is added to, then the heat causes another dose of water so you can work the mud...next thing you know, you are pouring a lot less than 2500 psi. (NOT always!) I'm going with 4000 on the new house and re-bar too. (and using my own mud):D

SummitKarl
08-01-2007, 05:08 PM
Yes you should, one builder quoted us 15k for plans, and another quoted us 9k.
but that did include engineering.
How do these guys sleep at night?
their bank account is full:idea: :D