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Titan7
07-30-2007, 10:06 PM
Ok, I think this one has a good chance of happening. Sorry to ask so many questions on about boats etc, but since this is the first purchase I don't want to miss something.
So owner has the boat I am looking at priced $1500-1600 under "average retail" NADA, if you add the price in for the bigger motor, cover, bimini top, dual batteries, etc on top of the base price. He does have few more things NADA does not account for, big stereo, Off-shore controls. Just going off avg base NADA and motor allowance upgrade he is about $400 above NADA. I am not sure how the book works, add all the equip? or go off base??
NADA defines Average condition :An average retail valued boat should be in good condition with no visible damage or defects. This boat will show moderate wear and tear and will be in sound running condition. The buyer may need to invest in either minor cosmetic or mechanical work.
What do you consider "no visible damage or defects" And what's "moderate wear and tear"?
What's a good guide to use for miror cosmetic or mechanical work?
Owner is going to tow the boat to QPM for check up, I am paying the $350.00 for the review. If the boat needs maintenance and or work, is there a general guideline for whether that's considered minor or do I attempt to lower the selling price for cost of the work? I guess what I am saying is if they say Water pump, etc, etc, needs work or replacement is that concidered minor and I pick it up?
I know the bottom needs to have some gel repair done from hitting some rocks. on the keel (white gel gone in a couple small areas) Owner and I have not discussed price, as I do not want to start negotiating only to have QPM come back with a big $$ issue. So if I know the gel repair is going to be about $500.00, I did not know whether that was reflected in his asking price, considered Minor by NADA standards, or something I should be negotiating.
Owner asked me today are you interested in buying, I said I am interested but I want to know what the gel repair est will be and what QPM says before I could commit to purchasing. He states I don't what to waste my time driving the boat there if you are not going to purchase. I understand his thoughts but I am thinking, heck I am spending $350.00 to have it checked out, to me that's interest. Isnt' driving the boat there is sort of part of selling it PP process? He is about 12 miles from QPM.
I will also pay for his gas to tow his boat to QPM. Am I handling this correctly?
It's funny I negotiate all day at work without issue but seems different when dealing with someone's personal pride and joy.
thanks again, you have been a big help!

Ivan Dan
07-30-2007, 10:12 PM
Ok, I think this one has a good chance of happening. Sorry to ask so many questions on about boats etc, but since this is the first purchase I don't want to miss something.
So owner has the boat I am looking at priced $1500-1600 under "average retail" NADA, if you add the price in for the bigger motor, cover, bimini top, dual batteries, etc. He does have few more thing NADA does not account for, big stereo, Off-shore controls. Just going off avg NADA and motor allowance upgrade it's about he is about $400 above NADA. I am not sure how the book works?
NADA defines Average condition :An average retail valued boat should be in good condition with no visible damage or defects. This boat will show moderate wear and tear and will be in sound running condition. The buyer may need to invest in either minor cosmetic or mechanical work.
What do you consider "no visible damage or defects" And what's moderate wear and tear?
What's a good guide to use for miror cosmetic or mechanical work?
Owner is going to tow the boat to QPM for check up, I am paying the $350.00for the review. If the boat needs maintenance and or work, is there a general guideline for whether that's considered minor or do I attempt to lower the selling price for cost of the work? I guess what I am saying is if they say Water pump, etc, etc, needs work or replacement is that concidered minor and I pick it up?
I know the bottom needs to have some gel repair done from hitting some rocks. on the keel (white gel gone in a couple small areas) Owner and I have not discussed price, as I do not want to start negotiating only to have QPM come back with a big $$ issue.
Owner asked me today are you interested in buying, I said I am interested but I want to know what the gel repair est will be and what QPM says before I could commit to purchasing. He states I don't what to waste my time driving the boat there if you are not going to purchase. I am thinking, heck I am spending $350.00 to have it checked out, to me that's interest.
I will also pay for his gas to tow his boat to QPM. Am I handling this correctly?
thanks again, you have been a big help!
Sounds like you are showing signs of good faith and if the boat is in as good condition as he says then he shouldn't have any worries letting you have it checked out.

jbone
07-30-2007, 10:25 PM
I'm assuming you have seen the boat in person.
If you have agreed to pay for everything associated with the checkout, that should speak for itself as far as you being interested.
As far as what to deduct from the price for repairs, be fair. Are you really gonna fix everything they point out? Probably not.
My guess is he will let you know what he'll take, after getting the info on its condition.
If it is fair, take it. If not counter with your offer. You'll either piss him off, or he'll take it.
Bottom line, in this market, he'll probably end up taking less than what he wants to, or he'll hold onto it for better selling days.
J

Titan7
07-30-2007, 10:53 PM
Yes I did see it on Sunday.
Really the only cosmetic damage is about 4-5 spot on or near the keel that have worn through the white gel. On quarter sized spot about the thickness of a dime deep and a small dent in the rear swimstep (wake board edge), 1/8" deep perhaps 1/4 " long. Other that this I would consider the rest normal wear and tear, it's actually pretty clean except for this.
I just got the feeling he wanted to know I would buy it after the check up since he felt there would be no problems. It does only have 47 hours on it, for a 2002 that's nothing.
I want the gel repaired, and I will do whatever QPM says needs to be done now.
I guess my real question is based on the price he is asking, and the NADA discription of average retail condition. Am I been a jerk not to purchase if I have $500-600 in gel repair and let's say a few hundred in things QPM says needs fixing, and he won't move on price?
I am not saying that's what's going to happen, but I do want to find out what the norm is since many on this forum have been down this path several times.
thanks for your time and consideration, I want to be fair about this.

C-2
07-30-2007, 11:09 PM
Alright, I'll just say it.
It's not even my boat and I already don't want to sell it to you.
Sorry to be blunt. ;)

jbone
07-31-2007, 03:34 AM
I guarantee he is taking a much bigger loss on this thing than the 600-800 in very minor repairs that most would just live with.
If you turn down this deal because he doesn't budge, you lose 350.00 for the review. All he loses is some time.
J

Jbb
07-31-2007, 03:38 AM
Alright, I'll just say it.
It's not even my boat and I already don't want to sell it to you.
Sorry to be blunt. ;)
Me either...:p ...NO SOUP FOR YOU!

ahhell
07-31-2007, 05:26 AM
dont fret the small stuff, trust me the gel will get abused, esp. if this is your first boat....trailers, docks, kids, pets,...other peoples kids:mad:
if you like it buy it, if you dont.....next
nice boat by the way

Mattman
07-31-2007, 05:36 AM
dont fret the small stuff, trust me the gel will get abused, esp. if this is your first boat....trailers, docks, kids, pets,...other peoples kids:mad:
if you like it buy it, if you dont.....next
nice boat by the way
What he said!! Now go start making years of good family times on the water and fughedaboudit...:D

Titan7
07-31-2007, 06:31 AM
Alright, I'll just say it.
It's not even my boat and I already don't want to sell it to you.
Sorry to be blunt. ;)
No offense taken, that's why I asked these questions here and I wanted to get an honest opinion and I don't know anybody who has purchased a pre-owned boat to help me out on this.
What am I doing that would make you not want to sell to me?
I though I was just asking questions that are relevent on a used boat, car, etc. If I was buying from somebody I know or somebody from the boards this would not be an issue. I am trust people but I think just handing over $$ for something without going through a pre-inspection is a bit risky.
I really am not being difficult imo, all I asked for for the pre-inspection to be done like several people on the board recommended. I offered to pick the boat up and take it to QPM, but the owner said he will do it. Is this type of request unreasonable? I was advised to do a pre-sale inspection and water test. That's all I have requested.
Regarding the gel repairs, I am not worried about that, I was just asking opinions on whether I was handling this correctly. I tend to think down the road a bit to anticipate all situations that could occur.
Thanks for your time to read this post, your insight has helped. I came here because there is a weath of knowledge on boats and I knew you guys would steer me in the right direction.

Magic34
07-31-2007, 06:43 AM
I dont want to sound like a d*ck, but NOTHING is selling right now. The market has gone to crap.
You can go out there and find 3 boats and low ball every one right now and 2 of the 3 will take the offer. It may not be anyone here, but in the market today throw NADA out the window, the only one it matters to is the bank and you should be buying it below the NADA anyways.
I cant sell a brand new $300k boat for $200k right now... and that is brand new! Yes it is a lot more money, but the market is VERY soft.
There are some 1300 homes for sale in Havasu to give you an idea. People need to get out of stuff right now.
Times like these are where you get to make a smarter decision and spend less and get more.
EDIT: And if anyone thinks I am sounding cheap :D there are a few car guys on here and they operate the same way. Be at the right place at the right time and have the cash available, you can make money. That is how wholesalers do it. :)

roostwear
07-31-2007, 06:43 AM
OK, then I'll say it. You're treating this as an investment. Nothing could be further from the truth. What you pay should be what it's worth to YOU, not NADA. If his price is not what you are comfortable with, then pass. If it is a good value for you, buy it. Value isn't necessarily defined as above or below book, so consider all the pros and cons of the boat.

yopengo
07-31-2007, 06:51 AM
It sounds like your doing everything right. Do not overpay for the boat and do not buy it on emotion only. Like Magic said it is a buyers market. Lets see what QPM says.
BTWÂ…Nice looking boat. :D

Kachina26
07-31-2007, 06:54 AM
I dont want to sound like a d*ck, but NOTHING is selling right now. The market has gone to crap.
You can go out there and find 3 boats and low ball every one right now and 2 of the 3 will take the offer. It may not be anyone here, but in the market today throw NADA out the window, the only one it matters to is the bank and you should be buying it below the NADA anyways.
I cant sell a brand new $300k boat for $200k right now... and that is brand new! Yes it is a lot more money, but the market is VERY soft.
There are some 1300 homes for sale in Havasu to give you an idea. People need to get out of stuff right now.
Times like these are where you get to make a smarter decision and spend less and get more.
EDIT: And if anyone thinks I am sounding cheap :D there are a few car guys on here and they operate the same way. Be at the right place at the right time and have the cash available, you can make money. That is how wholesalers do it. :)
I gotta second that, there's a lot of fine boats for sale out there.

brianthomas
07-31-2007, 06:55 AM
Just make sure you are willing to pay his price before he takes it for the survey. Don't even think about telling him after the survery that you will take it at 2k less than his price when there is only $500 in repairs identified. If you have any thought of getting him to lower his price then do it now. Work out the cost of repairs later.
I had the same type of thing happen to me. I took the boat in for a survey of the buyers choice and they found nothing wrong with it. The buyer then offered me $2k below my asking price. If the dipshit wanted to negotiate price it should have been before either of us invested any time or money into the transaction.

Redwing247
07-31-2007, 06:59 AM
I dont want to sound like a d*ck, but NOTHING is selling right now. The market has gone to crap.
You can go out there and find 3 boats and low ball every one right now and 2 of the 3 will take the offer. It may not be anyone here, but in the market today throw NADA out the window, the only one it matters to is the bank and you should be buying it below the NADA anyways.
I cant sell a brand new $300k boat for $200k right now... and that is brand new! Yes it is a lot more money, but the market is VERY soft.
There are some 1300 homes for sale in Havasu to give you an idea. People need to get out of stuff right now.
Times like these are where you get to make a smarter decision and spend less and get more.
EDIT: And if anyone thinks I am sounding cheap :D there are a few car guys on here and they operate the same way. Be at the right place at the right time and have the cash available, you can make money. That is how wholesalers do it. :)
What he said...:D

Sherpa
07-31-2007, 07:18 AM
just like Magic said 3x.....
it's only worth to you what you're willing to pay.... if you've absolutely, gotta
have it, then pay asking price.... dickering on 500 bucks of gell repairs isn't even gonna change his mind..........
lead-on to the boat sales ad so we can see it.... exclude the contact info
so no one back doors you on here.......
but I'd be guessing a low ball offer is what is expected, and might be considered by seller........... NADA is for banks and insurance, not for buying.
and BTW, I too wouldn't let anyone tow my boat in for inspection without me
being there......... too many wrongs can happen, and you might not be
responsible, but I'd literally almost kill someone for bringing my boat back to
me damaged and dude says, oops.... sorry.. not gonna buy it now. not to
mention wasting my time............
--Sherpa

Garrddogg
07-31-2007, 07:29 AM
Not to be a dick but I wouldnt even return your calls..:eek:
Ok, I think this one has a good chance of happening. Sorry to ask so many questions on about boats etc, but since this is the first purchase I don't want to miss something.
So owner has the boat I am looking at priced $1500-1600 under "average retail" NADA, if you add the price in for the bigger motor, cover, bimini top, dual batteries, etc on top of the base price. He does have few more things NADA does not account for, big stereo, Off-shore controls. Just going off avg base NADA and motor allowance upgrade he is about $400 above NADA. I am not sure how the book works, add all the equip? or go off base??
NADA defines Average condition :An average retail valued boat should be in good condition with no visible damage or defects. This boat will show moderate wear and tear and will be in sound running condition. The buyer may need to invest in either minor cosmetic or mechanical work.
What do you consider "no visible damage or defects" And what's "moderate wear and tear"?
What's a good guide to use for miror cosmetic or mechanical work?
Owner is going to tow the boat to QPM for check up, I am paying the $350.00 for the review. If the boat needs maintenance and or work, is there a general guideline for whether that's considered minor or do I attempt to lower the selling price for cost of the work? I guess what I am saying is if they say Water pump, etc, etc, needs work or replacement is that concidered minor and I pick it up?
I know the bottom needs to have some gel repair done from hitting some rocks. on the keel (white gel gone in a couple small areas) Owner and I have not discussed price, as I do not want to start negotiating only to have QPM come back with a big $$ issue. So if I know the gel repair is going to be about $500.00, I did not know whether that was reflected in his asking price, considered Minor by NADA standards, or something I should be negotiating.
Owner asked me today are you interested in buying, I said I am interested but I want to know what the gel repair est will be and what QPM says before I could commit to purchasing. He states I don't what to waste my time driving the boat there if you are not going to purchase. I understand his thoughts but I am thinking, heck I am spending $350.00 to have it checked out, to me that's interest. Isnt' driving the boat there is sort of part of selling it PP process? He is about 12 miles from QPM.
I will also pay for his gas to tow his boat to QPM. Am I handling this correctly?
It's funny I negotiate all day at work without issue but seems different when dealing with someone's personal pride and joy.
thanks again, you have been a big help!

Magic34
07-31-2007, 07:37 AM
I just read your entire post.
#1 Walk away
#2 If the guy wanted to sell his boat knowing you were paying $350 for the survey, he would drop it off, no problem. To me, that is as good as a deposit. You are taking a financial interest and $350 isn't fun to throw away.
#3 Pay for his gas? Hell no.
Some people have stuff up for sale because they want something new. That is the case with many people on this site.
A lot of people are selling because they have to for various readons. That is the seller you are looking for.
"A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush." Lame yes, but when I am selling something that I MUST get rid of I remember this every time.
If a deal is so great, it wont last long... If it has been around for a while, the deal is not sweet enough.

Magic34
07-31-2007, 07:38 AM
Not to be a dick but I wouldnt even return your calls..:eek:
Ring ring... :D "I'm calling about the Kachina..." CLICK, dial tone:D :D "Hello, are you there?"

Dave C
07-31-2007, 07:45 AM
Go look at a couple of boats before u buy. U will get the idea quickly.
Boats are cars are completely different animals. boat repairs and maintenance are very expensive. gel coats scratches and minor chips are normal wear and tear. Look past these. If u don't like the minor stuff get a new boat and put them in yourself :) (seriously)
You are looking for major engine & out-drive problems (blow-by, leak down, low compression, worn rings, bad oil pressure, leaking oil, oil mixed with water, bad shifting in drive, worn gimbal bearings, etc.) and MAJOR stress cracks or spider web cracks in the hull.
I would scrutinize the impact area of the hull to see if there is any delamination. If delamination is found, run, don't walk, away!!
minor B.S. are hoses, belts, lube, oil, filters, gaskets, etc.
Come to an agreement up front. Agree on a price assuming no major problems and tell him exactly what u will do if something major is found . Take the visual as is. Negotiate who is gonna handle the minor mechanical problems.
While its down there have all the maintenance done. At a minimum change the engine & drive oil, fuel filter and water pump impeller.
I agree with these guys... this is a buyers market. U can afford to be picky but don't hassle the guy, make an offer, if he doesn't accept move along. Be sure to look at a couple good deals and get the best one.
AFterall its a used boat and u must take it as is. Just agree on a price that makes us comfortable. (notice I did not say happy) ;)

CoolCruzinCobra
07-31-2007, 07:57 AM
Alright, I'll just say it.
It's not even my boat and I already don't want to sell it to you.
Sorry to be blunt. ;)
yep ,I would feel the same way
Your better off to buy a new boat.They come with a warranty.

fatboy95
07-31-2007, 08:02 AM
Me either...:p ...NO SOUP FOR YOU!
I agree, It's a used boat. if you are that anal go buy a new boat with a warranty otherwise make him an offer and buy it "As Is". :mad:

Garrddogg
07-31-2007, 08:08 AM
Ring ring... :D "I'm calling about the Kachina..." CLICK, dial tone:D :D "Hello, are you there?"
I spent 3 hours on a sea trial yesterday on the Bayliner, and the hangup was a vinigar smell. The boat was all closed up for a couple months and I didnt smell it.. that was one of the contingencies (sp) I told them to "pound sand"
bottom line is some people are just not ready to buy!
First boat.. $1500 price.. $350 to $400 to have it checked out.. ???????????
second bottom line ....
Dude youre workin too hard on a 1500 boat! suck it up, either buy it and enjoy it or dont..:D
Gary

Garrddogg
07-31-2007, 08:17 AM
Ring ring... :D "I'm calling about the Kachina..." CLICK, dial tone:D :D "Hello, are you there?"
I spent 3 hours on a sea trial yesterday on the Bayliner, and the hangup was a vinigar smell. The boat was all closed up for a couple months and I didnt smell it.. that was one of the contingencies (sp) I told them to "pound sand"
bottom line is some people are just not ready to buy!
First boat.. $1500 price.. $350 to $400 to have it checked out.. ???????????
second bottom line ....
Dude youre workin too hard on a $1500 boat! suck it up, either buy it and enjoy it or dont..:D
Gary

Garrddogg
07-31-2007, 08:18 AM
There I even said it twice!!
.
.
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..
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..
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..
..
..
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..
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.
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.
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oops on the double post!!:D

Kachina26
07-31-2007, 08:21 AM
There I even said it twice!!
.
.
.
..
.
..
.
..
..
..
.
..
.
.
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.
.
oops on the double post!!:D
Say it all you want, but you still need to work on your reading comprehension. Boat is priced $1500 under average retail price, ding bat! :D

Magic34
07-31-2007, 08:24 AM
Say it all you want, but you still need to work on your reading comprehension. Boat is priced $1500 under average retail price, ding bat! :D
Shhhhh.. I was going to offer him .75145 for his boat and gave him a check. He wont even notice the decimal at the front. :D :D

superdave013
07-31-2007, 08:26 AM
I dont want to sound like a d*ck, but NOTHING is selling right now. The market has gone to crap.
You can go out there and find 3 boats and low ball every one right now and 2 of the 3 will take the offer. It may not be anyone here, but in the market today throw NADA out the window, the only one it matters to is the bank and you should be buying it below the NADA anyways.
I cant sell a brand new $300k boat for $200k right now... and that is brand new! Yes it is a lot more money, but the market is VERY soft.
There are some 1300 homes for sale in Havasu to give you an idea. People need to get out of stuff right now.
bummer to be you. I just turned down 15K for a blank unrigged 1978 20' boat.
The guy got all pissed off and just could not believe I wouldn't take his offer. lol
I'm with C2, I hate selling stuff due to the pain in the ass factor. I'd almost rather use it up and pitch it. Like I said, almost.

Baja Big Dog
07-31-2007, 08:26 AM
In these days and times NADA is worth just that, NADA as far as getting a fair price for a boat, if you want the real world go to the people that are selling boats, the boat trader, hell, even Ebay will get you a better feel for the market, (and as mentioned numerous times, is in the shitter), the guys that say they wouldn't sell you the boat are speaking from the keyboard, and not the wallet, and as Magic 34 said, he is wanting someone to a 100,000 Winnie in his ass, and he cant even do that, on a brand new boat....market sucks.
Now whats amazing is that this is going on two pages, and you never mentioned how much the boat is selling for!
Now for my opinion...you are looking at a boat that the owner says has 47 hours on it, and its going on 7 years old, that's an average of 7 hours a year!!Not saying that the owner would do anything funny, but an hour meter is approx 50 bucks, lets think about this, less than 7 hours a year?? I applaud your decision to get it checked out.
Just for my curiosity, to the guys that "wouldn't sell you the boat" or "would not answer your phone calls", why? I dont think this guy is asking too much.
In this market, I think I would buy this guy dinner if he was thinking about buying my boat.
Again...nothing is selling, period, and this is the season, if it ain't gonna sell in the next month or two, your really hosed....:jawdrop:

Kachina26
07-31-2007, 08:29 AM
Shhhhh.. I was going to offer him .75145 for his boat and gave him a check. He wont even notice the decimal at the front. :D :D
:idea: :idea: :idea:

Garrddogg
07-31-2007, 08:30 AM
Say it all you want, but you still need to work on your reading comprehension. Boat is priced $1500 under average retail price, ding bat! :D
DOH!! THEN IM AN ASSHAT.. IM SORRY THEN!:sqeyes:
DAMN THIS CROW TASTES LIKE SHIT!:eek:

Magic34
07-31-2007, 08:32 AM
In these days and times NADA is worth just that, NADA as far as getting a fair price for a boat, if you want the real world go to the people that are selling boats, the boat trader, hell, even Ebay will get you a better feel for the market, (and as mentioned numerous times, is in the shitter), the guys that say they wouldn't sell you the boat are speaking from the keyboard, and not the wallet, and as Magic 34 said, he is wanting someone to a 100,000 Winnie in his ass, and he cant even do that, on a brand new boat....market sucks.
Now whats amazing is that this is going on two pages, and you never mentioned how much the boat is selling for!
Now for my opinion...you are looking at a boat that the owner says has 47 hours on it, and its going on 7 years old, that's an average of 7 hours a year!!Not saying that the owner would do anything funny, but an hour meter is approx 50 bucks, lets think about this, less than 7 hours a year?? I applaud your decision to get it checked out.
Just for my curiosity, to the guys that "wouldn't sell you the boat" or "would not answer your phone calls", why? I dont think this guy is asking too much.
In this market, I think I would buy this guy dinner if he was thinking about buying my boat.
Again...nothing is selling, period, and this is the season, if it ain't gonna sell in the next month or two, your really hosed....:jawdrop:
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait....
Why a weenie got to go in my a$$? That aint right. I'd just have to keep the boat before that happened. :D

CBadDad
07-31-2007, 08:50 AM
If you like the boat and it is priced rght, I'd have him take you to a local lake and run it. If he'll pull it to the water and launch it, that says something about the boat & trailer. If it runs fine (doesn't smoke, not missing, doesn't sink) buy it and save your money for an engine service (about $500). Keep an eye on the gages while it is running. Make sure to check the oil AFTER you run it to make sure there is no water in the oil (white frothy stuff on the dip stick).
Nothing used is perfect. Take your time, this is a buyers market. Don't be afraid to ask what needs to be repaired after you buy it (he won't be as honest before you agree on a price).
Have fun. Once it is yours, it is gonna cost you a whole lot more. :D

Titan7
07-31-2007, 08:51 AM
boat is a 2002 Ultra 247xs, 496mag, B1, big stereo. asking price is $42900

Magic34
07-31-2007, 08:52 AM
boat is a 2002 Ultra 247xs, 496mag, B1, big stereo. asking price is $42900
Switch the 4 & 2 and offer him that. :D

Baja Big Dog
07-31-2007, 08:55 AM
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait....
Why a weenie got to go in my a$$? That aint right. I'd just have to keep the boat before that happened. :D
OK...OK...how bout a hand job????
Any takers or interest on the deal???

BrendellaJet
07-31-2007, 09:00 AM
bummer to be you. I just turned down 15K for a blank unrigged 1978 20' boat.
The guy got all pissed off and just could not believe I wouldn't take his offer. lol
I'm with C2, I hate selling stuff due to the pain in the ass factor. I'd almost rather use it up and pitch it. Like I said, almost.
You better not sell that boat!

THOR
07-31-2007, 09:03 AM
Titan,
did you get my last PM with the pics?

AirtimeLavey
07-31-2007, 09:06 AM
Go look at a couple of boats before u buy. U will get the idea quickly.
Boats are cars are completely different animals. boat repairs and maintenance are very expensive. gel coats scratches and minor chips are normal wear and tear. Look past these. If u don't like the minor stuff get a new boat and put them in yourself :) (seriously)
You are looking for major engine & out-drive problems (blow-by, leak down, low compression, worn rings, bad oil pressure, leaking oil, oil mixed with water, bad shifting in drive, worn gimbal bearings, etc.) and MAJOR stress cracks or spider web cracks in the hull.
I would scrutinize the impact area of the hull to see if there is any delamination. If delamination is found, run, don't walk, away!!
minor B.S. are hoses, belts, lube, oil, filters, gaskets, etc.
Come to an agreement up front. Agree on a price assuming no major problems and tell him exactly what u will do if something major is found . Take the visual as is. Negotiate who is gonna handle the minor mechanical problems.
While its down there have all the maintenance done. At a minimum change the engine & drive oil, fuel filter and water pump impeller.
I agree with these guys... this is a buyers market. U can afford to be picky but don't hassle the guy, make an offer, if he doesn't accept move along. Be sure to look at a couple good deals and get the best one.
AFterall its a used boat and u must take it as is. Just agree on a price that makes us comfortable. (notice I did not say happy) ;)
I agree with this and what M34 has been saying. You are on the right course, but it is a used boat, and won't be perfect. The money you save versus a new boat, will allow you many repairs/upgrades, and you'll still be way ahead.
Otherwise, it's funny to hear the people that wouldn't talk to him. Things sell based on price and motivation. If the seller's going to be all emotional about the deal, then move on. His emotions aren't going to do you and your family any good. At the end of the day, who walks away with the money and a good deal is the one who negotiates better. If you don't ask, you don't get, but you also have to be reasonable. You have done some price research, so you have justification for your negotiation.
Good luck.

Baja Big Dog
07-31-2007, 09:07 AM
You better not sell that boat!
No shit...I just sold a 8 year old travel trailer, what a fricken nightmare, If I knew then, what I know now I would have had a giant bar-b-q with that thing!!!:mad:

BrendellaJet
07-31-2007, 09:08 AM
Its a used boat. You are buying someone elses problem in some way, shape or form. Depending on its age it will have problems the older the worse they will be. Maybe the motor will work & the drive will be fine, but something on it is broken, ripped, torn or lurking ready to present itself very soon. That's boating.
The advice to lake test it was good. If he's not willing to do that then I would walk. Depending on how much it costs though, Id also have it looked over by a competent shop. Things like a compression test, oil change & other services will provide good insight as to how the boat has been maintained. You should pay for it. Worst case you are out a few hundred bucks. Better that than several thousand.
Last, all boats are going to get cracks, chips stains etc. Its a matter of time. So if the boat is 10 years old and is in reasonable shape, deal with it. If you want it to be perfect, but a new boat.

Baja Big Dog
07-31-2007, 09:20 AM
Again..I repeat....7 hours a year????
He could have 3 hours a year just launching and landing a boat!!!:eek:

C-2
07-31-2007, 09:37 AM
Just for my curiosity, to the guys that "wouldn't sell you the boat" or "would not answer your phone calls", why? I dont think this guy is asking too much.
:
For all the reasons everybody has outlined. That, and the fact it alsmost sounded as of he was using trivial items to drive the price down (but Titan later clarified that point). He's gonna take it to Clark - who will give it a passing grade, and if I have to guess, a list of other items which *need* to be addressed.
I think Titan was very wise to ask this, along with his other questions. He's got enough advice to form an informed opinion he is comfortable with.
For the record, you guys are sorely mistaken if you think I wouldn't tell a pain in the arse buyer to pound sound.
And thanks for not taking offense Titan, none was meant, you're smart for asking such a candid question. Good luck with the purchase, that's a bitchen looking boat and I'm sure it will check out fine.

superdave013
07-31-2007, 09:39 AM
Again..I repeat....7 hours a year????
He could have 3 hours a year just launching and landing a boat!!!:eek:
The prolly put most of those hours on it the first year and then it sat. Happens all the time, nothing new there.

ratso
07-31-2007, 09:43 AM
Its a used boat. You are buying someone elses problem in some way, shape or form. Depending on its age it will have problems the older the worse they will be. Maybe the motor will work & the drive will be fine, but something on it is broken, ripped, torn or lurking ready to present itself very soon. That's boating.
The advice to lake test it was good. If he's not willing to do that then I would walk. Depending on how much it costs though, Id also have it looked over by a competent shop. Things like a compression test, oil change & other services will provide good insight as to how the boat has been maintained. You should pay for it. Worst case you are out a few hundred bucks. Better that than several thousand.
Last, all boats are going to get cracks, chips stains etc. Its a matter of time. So if the boat is 10 years old and is in reasonable shape, deal with it. If you want it to be perfect, buy a new boat.
...in a perfect world.;)

HocusPocus
07-31-2007, 09:57 AM
I think you are doing all the right things in making sure you get the most bang for your buck.
If im selling a boat i will go out of my way to make the deal happen, i will even help arrange financing if thats what i takes. i know most people on this forum don't like the NADA book but it can work for you. the average first time buyer likes to see in print that the boat is worth what your asking for it and if you can sell it in that price range it will make the sell and financing much easier. I am also seeing more and more people list the NADA price in their ads which will peak the interest of any boat buyer. Like others have said its a tough market out there and with summer passing us buy fast there is going to be a lot of desperate people out there in a couple months who are still scratching their heads as to why their havasu house or boat hasn't sold or wishing they had taken that offer they turned down. As the buyer you have all the power in the deal, you can walk at any time and if the seller isn't willing to work with you then go find another boat, there are 232 pages of them or there abouts in the current boat trader.

Mountainstone
07-31-2007, 10:33 AM
Go look at a couple of boats before u buy. U will get the idea quickly.
If u don't like the minor stuff get a new boat and put them in yourself :) (seriously)
You are looking for major engine & out-drive problems and MAJOR stress cracks or spider web cracks in the hull.
I would scrutinize the impact area of the hull to see if there is any delamination. If delamination is found, run, don't walk, away!!
Come to an agreement up front. Agree on a price assuming no major problems and tell him exactly what u will do if something major is found . Take the visual as is. Negotiate who is gonna handle the minor mechanical problems.
While its down there have all the maintenance done. At a minimum change the engine & drive oil, fuel filter and water pump impeller.
I agree with these guys... this is a buyers market. U can afford to be picky but don't hassle the guy, make an offer, if he doesn't accept move along. Be sure to look at a couple good deals and get the best one.
AFterall its a used boat and u must take it as is. Just agree on a price that makes us comfortable. (notice I did not say happy) ;)
I think this is the best advice here. Don't make the guy jump through hoops getting an inspection and scheduling a sea trial if you intend to lowball him on the price. Take a long look at the boat and agree on a price before he/you spends any time or money. If any problems are found later, re-negotiate at that time. Have him take you for a sea trial next, since it is cheap and will show you the most. If you still like it, have the inspection done with the proviso that if the inspection is satisfactory you want the maintenance done also. Buy. Enjoy. Don't sweat the little dings until after you put a few of your own into the boat.

fatboy95
07-31-2007, 04:21 PM
OK...OK...how bout a hand job????
Any takers or interest on the deal???
2% surcharge will land you a reach around........:eek:

dragboat
07-31-2007, 07:11 PM
I think this is the best advice here. Don't make the guy jump through hoops getting an inspection and scheduling a sea trial if you intend to lowball him on the price. Take a long look at the boat and agree on a price before he/you spends any time or money. If any problems are found later, re-negotiate at that time. Have him take you for a sea trial next, since it is cheap and will show you the most. If you still like it, have the inspection done with the proviso that if the inspection is satisfactory you want the maintenance done also. Buy. Enjoy. Don't sweat the little dings until after you put a few of your own into the boat.
Exactly, and at 40thousand+ ask all the questions you need answered but like Dave C said don't hassle the guy. But if he's acting hassled let him pay to store it till next spring and move to the next rocket.
I sold (to cheap) a limousine yesterday. I could tell that the buyer had a ton of questions so I did my best to answer them first. I went over every part of the car for them. After about 30 minutes of me going on and on he smiled, handed me cash, shook my hand, and drove it home. I did not feel hassled. I wanted to sell the car and had a buyer in front of me. They are happy, I'm happy, the car is gone and the money is in the bank.:D

The Doctor
07-31-2007, 07:54 PM
I'd say you have some great advice to work with here.
I'll offer two more points to consider.
#1 This is Summer. Everyone wants boats in the Summer. Most boats are far easier to negotiate a great deal on in the Winter when it's parked and unless you live North of Canada, you can still lake test anything you agree to purchase in the dead of winter, you just can't find skiers as willing to test their pulling power.
#2 Negotiation is what I do for a living. Here's a great rule to live by:
"The person who wins every negotiation has the least motivation to make the deal."
In other words, you need to consider many alternatives or you're gonna buy that boat regardless of what he sticks with on price and terms unless this is the exact boat your heart is set on and then you're doomed. Just buy it?
I had to have a 21' Schiada River Cruiser ski race boat and it took two years for me to find a twin-turbo BBC v-drive like I wanted. I waited until I found a second and saved $20K buying the first one using leverage.

bocco
08-01-2007, 11:56 AM
So what about the big baller sound systems that are in some these boats. I see adds that point out five or ten thousand dollars in the stereo. How much does that really add to the value af the boat? Does he get 50 cents on the dollar for his sound system investment?

brianthomas
08-01-2007, 12:59 PM
So what about the big baller sound systems that are in some these boats. I see adds that point out five or ten thousand dollars in the stereo. How much does that really add to the value af the boat? Does he get 50 cents on the dollar for his sound system investment?
MUCH closer to two cents on the dollar.

beaverretriever
08-01-2007, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't even mention any of the work that needs to be done on the boat to the seller. Make him an offer, take it or leave it. Just make the offer to him that you feel is fair and leaves you enough money to get the repairs done that you want. It sounds like you have a total number in your head that you want to spend.
To all the folks saying "its used, there will be some scatches, damage, etc", not always true. The people who purchased our boat said they looked at tons of new and used and said they have NEVER, EVER seen a boat as clean and flawless as ours, new or used. I feel saying that damage is normal on a used boat is a cop out and you should be very aware that if they didn't take care of the outside they may have not taken care of the internals either.
It already sounds like you are not happy with some of the damage on the boat. I would move on. There are literally thousands of boats in your range right now.
You have to remember though, it is used and just like anything out there there will be ones that are better than others. What is clean and usable to some people will be absolutely horrible looking to others.
I have purchased a few used vehicles in my time. It is absolutely amazing to me when people say on the phone that the vehicle they are selling is perfect and when I come to see it in person I can't believe what a POS it is. :mad:

RUCAV
08-01-2007, 02:07 PM
Titan
I think that is a pretty fair price for what's on the boat. I have the same boat but its an 03 for sale but alot more hours and Nada was $47k for trade in. Id be more concerned with engine related issues as my neighbor bought a lavey with a HP 575 and has spent about $8k this year on repairs. If he is unwilling to take it somewhere, can you find a tech that will meet you at his house to check it out. Sorry if someone already suggested it. I love the boat but our growing family and all the moochers who dont have their own boat need something bigger. Good luck.
No offense taken, that's why I asked these questions here and I wanted to get an honest opinion and I don't know anybody who has purchased a pre-owned boat to help me out on this.
What am I doing that would make you not want to sell to me?
I though I was just asking questions that are relevent on a used boat, car, etc. If I was buying from somebody I know or somebody from the boards this would not be an issue. I am trust people but I think just handing over $$ for something without going through a pre-inspection is a bit risky.
I really am not being difficult imo, all I asked for for the pre-inspection to be done like several people on the board recommended. I offered to pick the boat up and take it to QPM, but the owner said he will do it. Is this type of request unreasonable? I was advised to do a pre-sale inspection and water test. That's all I have requested.
Regarding the gel repairs, I am not worried about that, I was just asking opinions on whether I was handling this correctly. I tend to think down the road a bit to anticipate all situations that could occur.
Thanks for your time to read this post, your insight has helped. I came here because there is a weath of knowledge on boats and I knew you guys would steer me in the right direction.

dunaholic
08-01-2007, 03:38 PM
You need to beat the crap out of him and just when you think he is done negotiating, kick him in the nuts and ask for another $1000 off of the price. You shouldn't be looking at the "Retail" on NADA, you should look at the low book and base your offer somewhere in the middle (closer to low is better). No deal is a good deal unless it is good for everybody. I just bought a used boat at the beginning of the season and it took me four months to get to where I wanted on price with the guy. He tried th whole "well.......I have a couple people looking at it right now" line and I just bid my time and waited, then hit him up in a few weeks. Don't get me wrong, you can't put a price on recreation, but you need to feel comfortable with the deal. Save you $350 and take the thing for a test run then check the mechanics of the boat yourself. You'll know if something is terribly wrong with it. Better yet take a freind with you that has or now owns a boat to look at it with you.

Magic34
08-01-2007, 04:00 PM
On the stereo question...
It makes your boat more attractive for the sale, but if they tell you that the boat is worth so much more because of the stereo... pound sand.
I have never got money back from the stereo but it has helped the buyer make a decision towards my boat over another.

dunaholic
08-01-2007, 09:19 PM
If someone says that there is a $10,000 stereo in a boat and uses that as a sales pitch, tell them to take the stereo out of the boat and knock the price down 10K.

bocco
08-02-2007, 09:28 AM
If someone says that there is a $10,000 stereo in a boat and uses that as a sales pitch, tell them to take the stereo out of the boat and knock the price down 10K.
That's pretty much my plan when I'm ready to get serious about shopping.