Best Modern Rough Water Boat

[HPBoats83]

I was watching this video on you tube and started wonder what do you think is the best modern rough water boat? What boat's do you think could stand up to the beating that this apache is taking?
James
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7mSxOAg-UU

[Squirtin Thunder]

Cigarette

[socalmoney]

That is cool footage.

[deltarat]

What a bitchen video, makes me want to sell the Fountain and buy a new boat.

[GoCiggie31]

I was watching this video on you tube and started wonder what do you think is the best modern rough water boat? What boat's do you think could stand up to the beating that this apache is taking?
James
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7mSxOAg-UU
Yes, cool flic...a real offshore boat. thanks for the flic.
check out this one as well with some history attached:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_6vdTEChas&mode=related&search=

[SummerBreeze]

If the 41 foot Apache is winning this race I would think the Apache would be the best boat

[uvindex]

I was watching this video on you tube and started wonder what do you think is the best modern rough water boat? What boat's do you think could stand up to the beating that this apache is taking?
James
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7mSxOAg-UUFor truly rough water, I'd take something like this over the Apache any day: :)
http://www.boatnerd.com/news/newpictures/duluth47ml-6-5-01-rf-pg.jpg

[Racey]

Before i even clicked the link i was gonna say Apache Warparth, a couple videos of it have been circulating the boards lately, that thing is badass!!! No step hull and runnin that hard with #V drives, siiiiiick :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Since today's offshore races aren't really open-ocean like the old days, most manufacturers are opting for speed (lower decks, lighter, big steps) over rough-water handling.
I like the Cigs, but then again...I'm biased. I launched mine off a 6-footer last weekend, and thought I was never gonna land. When I did, let's just say I was glad i was in a Cig.
:D

[Jbb]

Since today's offshore races aren't really open-ocean like the old days, most manufacturers are opting for speed (lower decks, lighter, big steps) over rough-water handling.
I like the Cigs, but then again...I'm biased. I launched mine off a 6-footer last weekend, and thought I was never gonna land. When I did, let's just say I was glad i was in a Cig.
:D
The Apache's I have seen take rough water pretty well ...:D

[Havasu Hangin']

The Apache's I have seen take rough water pretty well ...:D
Are they building them again?
:idea:

[Jbb]

Are they building them again?
:idea:
Good question to post at OSO........lI love a good fireworks show....:D

[HPBoats83]

What a bitchen video, makes me want to sell the Fountain and buy a new boat.
How do the newer fountains handle water like that. They are supposedly like the premier world class race boat now, or is that mostly hype and all just smoother water speed I wonder.

[Havasu Hangin']

Good question to post at OSO........lI love a good fireworks show....:D
You strike me as a "drive a semi onto the railroad tracks, park it, and grab some popcorn" kind of guy.
:idea:

[Jbb]

You strike me as a "drive a semi onto the railroad tracks, park it, and grab some popcorn" kind of guy.
:idea:
Hey!......I was never convicted of that!
There have been times .......when I have been treated unfairly....:(
:D
.......A semi full of tnt....

[Sleeper CP]

with #V drives, siiiiiick :D
With V-drives, Huh? Those sure look like I/O's to me. Yeah they were flat hauling ass in the first Video, but as my good friend and 7 time AMA National Motorcycle champion Ricky Johnson told me the first time we raced the Baja 500 said" You've got to finish to win". Perserve your equipment. You can't just beat it to death and expect to win an endurance race.
They were certainly in a "Zone" on video #1, but you saw what happened in the second one, they fell out of that zone and damn near bought the farm. Great video though.
Sleeper CP

[H2oracer]

With V-drives, Huh? Those sure look like I/O's to me. Yeah they were flat hauling ass in the first Video, but as my good friend and 7 time AMA National Motorcycle champion Ricky Johnson told me the first time we raced the Baja 500 said" You've got to finish to win". Perserve your equipment. You can't just beat it to death and expect to win an endurance race.
They were certainly in a "Zone" on video #1, but you saw what happened in the second one, they fell out of that zone and damn near bought the farm. Great video though.
Sleeper CP
#v drive means #5 drive not vee drives.

[beaverretriever]

With V-drives, Huh? Those sure look like I/O's to me.
I think he is saying #5 Drives... V=5...LOL:D
I have seen that vid many times. I love it.
Is it me or does the anouncer soud like Donald Trump?:confused:

[Sleeper CP]

#v drive means #5 drive not vee drives.
Got it # 5 drives. That makes since now. Thanks. Don't konow if that was my stupidity or the dyslexia that got in the way there.
Sleeper CP

[73kona455]

that was an awesome video:D

[deltarat]

How do the newer fountains handle water like that. They are supposedly like the premier world class race boat now, or is that mostly hype and all just smoother water speed I wonder.
I have never had my Fountain in the ocean yet, however I have never run across anything in a lake yet that has made me or my passengers uncomfortable yet either. So I don’t really have an answer.

[Big Kahunaa]

for any one that has the itch http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1709715/0
cool vid by the way

[Devilman]

I think he is saying #5 Drives... V=5...LOL:D
I have seen that vid many times. I love it.
Is it me or does the anouncer soud like Donald Trump? :confused:
I've watched those clips of the Apache more than a few times & now that you mention it, yes. :D :D
"These waves are YOOGE...." LMAO

[Dude! Sweet!]

I'll bring a little of the truck and train to you! From what I've been told (so there's your b/s filter)... :D
You can get a new "Apache" from:
Bobby Saccenti (as in the magic throttle arm of...) at Chief Powerboats, but there is some question to whether they're actually in business or not.
Saber Marine in Michigan. They have a set of the 41 molds and 47 molds and the boats are monsters. Every bit as bad ass as the original.
Mark McManus may build you one. Mark was there with Saccenti in the early days before or right around the time that Ben went to the clink. Mark built many of the "Apache Powerboats" that are around today and built after 1986 or so.
Pantera (www.panteraboats.com) can build you a 36' or 41' Pantera out of a set of Apache molds. I was there on Monday and saw a new 36' going together, another in the mold, two 41 decks and the 41 hull mold. They can do a stepped hull boat as well. I have a 28 Pantera and I will tell you its the baddest 30' rough water boat I've ever been in (if you get my drift) and the thing is built like a tank. Pantera's rule. And the people who build Pantera treat every owner, whether they bought it new or used, like a member of the family.
There are other molds around and people who are willing to build you one custom if you want.
Additionally, if you'd had $135k burning a hole in your pocket six months ago, you could have posted "I own (blue) Warpath" in this thread. It has sixes and blown 572s in it now (I thought I remembered who built them, but I don't, probably Eikert still). And if you've got about $145k burning a hole in your pocket now, you could say "I own the 'red banner boat' (the second boat in the video)". It's currently called Warparty and it's for sale (and has been for sale) in the OSO classifieds.
And the announcer is Richie Luhrs. Richie is an old school racer and one of the founders of Shadow (to become Chris Cat), Conquest and Luhrs boats. He's one of the fathers of the modern american cat, in some respects.
I think the term "modern" is up to interpretation, by the way. I'd say if you're talking modern construction materials with a classic V, then Pantera (where I spent my money) and Saber are your best bets. If you're talking modern design and construction, I'd be inclined to say a really big cat like the Mystic 50 might be a good bet.

[Racey]

I heard a story that when Ben went to the clink he tried having a helicopter lift him out of the yard with a rope ladder and all the other prisoners got ahold of it and pulled the chopper down, is this true or just rumor mill bs? :eek: :idea:

[PaPaG]

I was watching this video on you tube and started wonder what do you think is the best modern rough water boat? What boat's do you think could stand up to the beating that this apache is taking?
James
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7mSxOAg-UU
that was sweet

[BADAXE]

Got it # 5 drives. That makes since now. Thanks. Don't konow if that was my stupidity or the dyslexia that got in the way there.
Sleeper CP
Maybe if you got off Ricky's nut sack and paid alittle attention this wouldn't happen.:D

[Dude! Sweet!]

I know there was a failed helecopter escape attempt, but don't know the details. Funny thing, I never looked into it. I do know that one of his co-defendants on the smuggling charge decided to wise up and leave the country to avoid prosecution. He went to Puerto Rico... :D

[Sleeper CP]

Maybe if you got off Ricky's nut sack and paid alittle attention this wouldn't happen.:D
Pay what?;) :D I said" I screwed up" :) I hate when that happens.
Just don't tell my wife I said that she still thinks I'm always correct(or is she just mess'in with me:idea: )
Sleeper CP

[airpacker]

There are quite a few good choices out there these days.
42 or 46 Ciggie
41 or 47 Sabre
36 Pantera
the new 43 Eliminator ( 43 Scarab hull )
the 43 Nortech and the 50 Nortech V will smash waves and run fast on stock 1075"s
Larry Smith will still build you a Scarab flat deck.
Lots of choices but all cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[FASTERDAMITT]

If you where to follow the offshore races you will find a few races every season with big water that most racers/boats manage to pound through. Apache with it's heavy weight advantage would be a top competitor. In the rally big stuff you need length and weight to keep the speed up. Many hulls today are a good compromise for speed VS ride. I think the performance boaters that don't get offshore are missing a huge part of pleasure boating sport. Gotta love that adrenaline rush workin the throttle on the huge swells!:)

[Nord]

I know I've posted this before, but there are a lot of videos of Apaches taking a beating like that, but they did not finish the races.........I want to say the one that is posted here in this thread is one of them.
Sick boats though...............Awesome video

[spectras only]

It may not be as fast as that Apache in the video , but comfortable like nothing else , any Magnum Maltese .
http://www.magnummarine.com/
http://www.magnummarine.com/products/63/63_fr.html

[Dude! Sweet!]

They did ultimately win a couple of world championships though... And as I recall the Team Apache boat finished and won the second half of the clip. I also recall that Team Preadator's 41 Apache won P2 last year. Bad boats that do what they do better than about anything else.
Fasterdammit, you're Super ran like a MF in the Rum Run and sounded bitchen! Congrats on your class win!

[Dude! Sweet!]

Since I'm running my mouth... Some photos of the big Panteras doing what they do. The yellow boat is a straight hull 36 running in the UIM Powerboat P1 and the black boat is the 35' stepped hull boat (same mold as the 36, but cut down with a twin step insert) with Jo and Pepe Nunez running at the Worlds.
Enjoy!

[eliminatedsprinter]

For truly rough water, I'd take something like this over the Apache any day: :)
http://www.boatnerd.com/news/newpictures/duluth47ml-6-5-01-rf-pg.jpg
Absolutly. In the real world of boating no "***boat" is considered a good rough water boat. After all, in really rough water, a 20ft Boston Whaler is a safer boat than an offshore racer...

[burtandnancy2]

Bigger is better; step up to a 50 footer for now, then to 60 in a few years. Just add horsepower, lots of it. Hell, when I moved up from a 20 to a 24 I thought that was huge, then to 32, finally 40, it never stops. All you need is cubic dollars...

[FASTERDAMITT]

They did ultimately win a couple of world championships though... And as I recall the Team Apache boat finished and won the second half of the clip. I also recall that Team Preadator's 41 Apache won P2 last year. Bad boats that do what they do better than about anything else.
Fasterdammit, you're Super ran like a MF in the Rum Run and sounded bitchen! Congrats on your class win!
Thanks Dude! Can't wait to do it again!:D

[HPBoats83]

Since I'm running my mouth... Some photos of the big Panteras doing what they do. The yellow boat is a straight hull 36 running in the UIM Powerboat P1 and the black boat is the 35' stepped hull boat (same mold as the 36, but cut down with a twin step insert) with Jo and Pepe Nunez running at the Worlds.
Enjoy!
Those are some pretty sweet pics. I went and checked out their website (panteraboats.com) and they have some really cool boats in their lineup.

[Fast Freddy]

cig makes a strong boat but apaches rule. apaches have thicker hulls and more wave crushing weight. unfortunately all that weight is harder on the drives and engines. so for a modern day boat a cig is hard to beat in the rough stuff.

[shippingguy]

cig makes a strong boat but apaches rule. apaches have thicker hulls and more wave crushing weight. unfortunately all that weight is harder on the drives and engines. so for a modern day boat a cig is hard to beat in the rough stuff.
Not hard for you though in your Nordic:D You smoke them out there:)

[Dude! Sweet!]

Speaking of "Cat Killers"!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_6vdTEChas&NR=1
Old school cheese, but some bad rigs! Also, the quote about 120mph in a straight hulled V in 1982... I'm voting that they dropped it out of a plane!
Still kick asz stuff!

[Dude! Sweet!]

Those are some pretty sweet pics. I went and checked out their website (panteraboats.com) and they have some really cool boats in their lineup.
I freaking love my Pantera. It's my second and to be honest, I probably won't own anything but a Pantera as long as I own a 24 degree v-hull performance boat (ie unless I buy a Skater, Sanger or Sea-Ray!).
I just talked to they guys at Pantera this morning (just BS ing on email). They are the most customer friendly company I've ever dealt with!
If you're ever interested in seeing one in person, shoot me a pm.

[HPBoats83]

I freaking love my Pantera. It's my second and to be honest, I probably won't own anything but a Pantera as long as I own a 24 degree v-hull performance boat (ie unless I buy a Skater, Sanger or Sea-Ray!).
I just talked to they guys at Pantera this morning (just BS ing on email). They are the most customer friendly company I've ever dealt with!
If you're ever interested in seeing one in person, shoot me a pm.
Where do you normally run your boat?

[Dude! Sweet!]

Where do you normally run your boat?
Out of Huntington Harbor. Usual range is from PV to Newport and out to Catalina. That's actually the only place I've ever boated on the west coast. Looking forward to a Havasu run this fall though!
I love running it hard in the ocean though. I grew up in the north east running on the finger lakes, Ontario and St. Lawrence river. The pacific ocean is just a different animal. When you get a good size consistent swell going, you can just get into the zone and really run the boat. There's nothing like it!

[FASTERDAMITT]

I love running it hard in the ocean though. I grew up in the north east running on the finger lakes, Ontario and St. Lawrence river. The pacific ocean is just a different animal. When you get a good size consistent swell going, you can just get into the zone and really run the boat. There's nothing like it!
I grew up on Lake Erie. I agree with you about the ocean. However a storm on the big lakes in the midwest do get very interesting!:)

[Dude! Sweet!]

Yah, I agree! I try not to get into an Ocean vs. Ocean or Ocean vs. Great Lakes pissing match. Every one is different and each has their upsides and each has their days where you're best on bet is to sit in the bar, look out the window and think "Man I'm glad I'm not out there right now!"
I've only done a little bit of boating on Erie (Buffalo and south), but man that lake goes ugly quick! So shallow that the storms really get it frothy in no time!

[LAPII]

Well if you do a little research, Don Aronow "The Godfather of Offshore" started Formula, Donzi, Squadron, Magnum, got ripped or copied for Apache and murdered, and then of course Cigarette. Cigarette I would say started "it all" winning and finishing races. But now you have Outerlimits, Pantera (been around for awhile) as well as Superboat, Stuphen all quite capable for any rough water. Good book on the subject is "Speed Kills".

[River Lynchmob]

There are so many now days. I think the older straight bottom boats were better in the rough than the new super ventilated type bottoms. It is pretty hard to argue with the Apache video that thing was just plain on it and sick.

[Dude! Sweet!]

Well if you do a little research, Don Aronow "The Godfather of Offshore" started Formula, Donzi, Squadron, Magnum, got ripped or copied for Apache and murdered, and then of course Cigarette. Cigarette I would say started "it all" winning and finishing races. But now you have Outerlimits, Pantera (been around for awhile) as well as Superboat, Stuphen all quite capable for any rough water. Good book on the subject is "Speed Kills".
That's some funny sh1t right there! And I don't care who you are! :D
My personal opinion is that Aronow was lucky he didn't get his azz shot sooner than he did! That guy ripped off just about everyone he could and then F'd about half their wives as well! Not to say that he wasn't an offshore legend, but ask for something long enough and you're going to get it nine times out of ten! Check out "King of Thunderboat Row" as well...
http://www.freebenkramer.com/
I once heard Richie Powers say that you don't need steps if the water's rough enough to keep the boat in the air most of the time! And I agree, there are a ton of good rough water boats out there. Then again, anyone that saw Tom run at the Rum Run will be hard pressed to say that those Stepped Guns don't run good in the bumps too!
See told you we'd ultimately get some of the truck and train going!

[Fast Freddy]

Not hard for you though in your Nordic:D You smoke them out there:)
one mile at a time from a slow roll only in smooth water.......
its alot like my viper versus my ford GT. as it stands right now my viper is faster in the 1/4 mile but if you stay in it to the half mile my GT will catch up to my viper. and if your run the race out to a mile or longer my GT will pull away from viper.

[Fast Freddy]

That's some funny sh1t right there! And I don't care who you are! :D
I once heard Richie Powers say that you don't need steps if the water's rough enough to keep the boat in the air most of the time!
this is true but steps were never designed to make boats air out in rough water. steps are used to free up a boat in flat water and make it go faster. in really rough water a non-step hulled boat like an apache is more consistent and predictable which is safer. outerlimits has the best stepped hull design for rough water. they use lots of little steps instead of just a few BIG ones like most boat builders. this creates a more stable hull in rough water and helps to control chine walking, porpoising and handling issues while turning. the fountain has the best flat water stepped hull design with a record setting verified run of 177 mph. a cig is a good boat in rough water as a result of its 24* V, narrow beam, freeboard height, strong build construction and weight distribution, etc.

[FASTERDAMITT]

outerlimits has the best stepped hull design for rough water. they use lots of little steps instead of just a few BIG ones like most boat builders. this creates a more stable hull in rough water and helps to control chine walking, porpoising and handling issues while turning.
Kinda like Superboats idea... Here's the bottom of mine.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/478DSCN2757.JPG

[CAHotRodBoy]

Out of Huntington Harbor. Usual range is from PV to Newport and out to Catalina. That's actually the only place I've ever boated on the west coast. Looking forward to a Havasu run this fall though!
I love running it hard in the ocean though. I grew up in the north east running on the finger lakes, Ontario and St. Lawrence river. The pacific ocean is just a different animal. When you get a good size consistent swell going, you can just get into the zone and really run the boat. There's nothing like it!
Hey, bring that thing up to Channel Islands / Ventura some time for some hard running. The water is usually bigger and tighter. We do CIH to SB runs occasionally. Have had to turn back on occasion because the water was beating us up too much (in a TG!).

[Dude! Sweet!]

I was hoping to come up and run Channel Islands over the 4th with the dude from Vegas with the 29 Baja and Tank, but didn't get it worked out. I'd love to run up there. It looks awesome. Hopefully the next Scope gig up there will happen.
Oh and if I haven't said it yet, those Supers and the Activators (which seems to bear a family resemblence) are bad ass!

[CAHotRodBoy]

[QUOTE=Dude! Sweet!;2711420]I was hoping to come up and run Channel Islands over the 4th with the dude from Vegas with the 29 BajaQUOTE]
Uhm, yeah, that was me! :D

[Dude! Sweet!]

:D I guess I should have said with you and Liquid Courage huh?! :D
Michael invited me up. He had nice things to say about your Baja, by the way. I just couldn't get my head out of my ass long enough to make it up. Hopefully, I'll make Mead next year too. Heard this year was awesome!