'Hook' question.. should this area be filled in??

[AaronL]

Here are a few pictures of the bottom of my 18' Miller (with berkeley 12JB) that I'm working on. I've spent quite a bit of time searching and reading threads about 'hook' issues on the bottom side of boats, but i'm only seeing emphasis on the area around the skegs (more outboard). My question is about right in front of the inlet, on the lowest part of the boat. There is a little over 3/8" difference in height when I put a straight edge from the inlet housing to about 2 feet forward (as shown in the pictures). Should this area be completely filled in and leveled?
http://www.intakeelbows.com/Ryan/Underside01.jpg
http://www.intakeelbows.com/Ryan/Underside02.jpg
Thanks,
Aaron

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

THat looks like some sort of bubble:idea: I have always seen a bubble infront of the intake.....

[OverKill]

NO NO NO leave it alone. That bump you see before the intake is to direct more water into the intake. What happens at very high speeds the pump will not pull the water in fast enough and the water will just run by the pump and not get sucked in. IMO leave it alone it is fine. Best person IMO to ask is Squirtcha?. He had hook on the bottom of his boat and spent alot of time straightining it. His performance dropped so he put a little hook back in it to get back on the plus side. Dan maybe you can help this guy out a little more than I can with all the detales and such.
OverKill
P.S. Call Phil Bergeron for more info. (480) 834-1531 :) :)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Better yet, Call Jeff Bennett!!! He specializes in JETBOAT bottoms.......

[AaronL]

Thanks for the quick replies. My understanding (or misunderstanding) is that the 'bubble' would cause a low pressure area right after it, like the top side of an airplane wing, which causes lift due to the low pressure.... To me, it seems like this area should be flat, and not bump out:confused:
I am going to get it painted pretty soon by a friend that has a body shop. I want to make sure it is right before the paint goes on.

[AaronL]

:confused: THat looks like some sort of bubble:idea: I have always seen a bubble infront of the intake.....
I'm not seeing a bubble either of these ones :confused:

[RCB19]

That does not look right at all. It looks like somebody really screwed up setting the intake too low and filled in the mistake with putty then shaped it.

[AaronL]

Now I was just told about 'spoon' . This bump makes more sense now..... (thanks Squirtin Thunder)
I just did some high-tech (redneck) testing in the kitchen sink with some soft 3003 aluminum strip and full water pressure on each test.... Pictures taken and rotated 90 degrees.
-spoon001 is like my 'bump'. Notice how smooth the water flows over it, and off the trailing edge. I was surprised to feel the water pull the aluminum towards it (because of the low pressure that I previously thought might be a bad thing)... very noticeable force.
-spoon002 is no bump. notice how the water doesn't flow as streamline at the end
-spoon004 is way too much bump. Some of the water is actually pushed away from what would be the jet intake.
I probably should be leave it the hell alone, huh?

[TeamHawaiin]

:sqeyes: :sqeyes: :sqeyes:
Now I was just told about 'spoon' . This bump makes more sense now..... (thanks Squirtin Thunder)
I just did some high-tech (redneck) testing in the kitchen sink with some soft 3003 aluminum strip and full water pressure on each test.... Pictures taken and rotated 90 degrees.
-spoon001 is like my 'bump'. Notice how smooth the water flows over it, and off the trailing edge. I was surprised to feel the water pull the aluminum towards it (because of the low pressure that I previously thought might be a bad thing)... very noticeable force.
-spoon002 is no bump. notice how the water doesn't flow as streamline at the end
-spoon004 is way too much bump. Some of the water is actually pushed away from what would be the jet intake.
I probably should be leave it the hell alone, huh?
This is the coolest example of water flow I've seen yet!!:sqeyes: :sqeyes: :sqeyes:

[maxwedge]

That's pretty interesting really!
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36314&d=1186132742
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36315&d=1186132748
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36316&d=1186132753

[sleekcrafter]

NO NO NO leave it alone. That bump you see before the intake is to direct more water into the intake. What happens at very high speeds the pump will not pull the water in fast enough and the water will just run by the pump and not get sucked in. IMO leave it alone it is fine. Best person IMO to ask is Squirtcha?. He had hook on the bottom of his boat and spent alot of time straightining it. His performance dropped so he put a little hook back in it to get back on the plus side. Dan maybe you can help this guy out a little more than I can with all the detales and such.
OverKill
P.S. Call Phil Bergeron for more info. (480) 834-1531 :) :)
That ain't no spoon! thats an improper install of an intake, intake angle is off as well. Do you home work on spoons, you will see the difference. This install will cost way more on speed than a spoon could ever add.
Aaron.. Reset the intake before your too far into the project, remove the build up, and reset it even with the keel. If you had it machined for a shoe, then you could play with the intake angles, but stock intakes are set even with the keel. There are several posts on the Bennett bottom, and dropped keels, to read up on. Good luck on the project, doing it right once is always better than doing it wrong twice:)

[Squirtcha?]

Best person IMO to ask is Squirtcha?. He had hook on the bottom of his boat and spent alot of time straightining it. His performance dropped so he put a little hook back in it to get back on the plus side. Dan maybe you can help this guy out a little more than I can with all the detales and such.
OverKill
No No No don't ask me. I'm no expert. After spending around 100 hours on mine making it perfect and straight, it rode even worse than it did before.
I did add some hook back in and it's better, but still bounces/porpoises some and it scrubbed off 6-8 mph.
I haven't the foggiest idea and it's all a big mystery to me.
That ain't no spoon! thats an improper install of an intake, intake angle is off as well. Do you home work on spoons, you will see the difference. This install will cost way more on speed than a spoon could ever add.
Aaron.. Reset the intake before your too far into the project, remove the build up, and reset it even with the keel. If you had it machined for a shoe, then you could play with the intake angles, but stock intakes are set even with the keel. There are several posts on the Bennett bottom, and dropped keels, to read up on. Good luck on the project, doing it right once is always better than doing it wrong twice:)
That being said, I would agree with Sleek. It looks like a bad intake set. That looks terrible!
I can't imagine what the ride must be like.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36306&d=1186122930
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36304&d=1186122771
Here's what mine looked like. When I say it had hook, it was all in the area outside of the intake. Not the intake area itself.
Here's a link with a bunch more pictures.
bottom blueprinting (http://jetboat.homestead.com/Kidsriding.html)
After doing the work that is on the pages and in the photos, it worked great. I didn't run into problems until I had some bottom damage (after the fact) and straightened the areas more outboard. I'm still dealing with that as I stated earlier. It's turned out to be a real can o worms (pandora's box).
The photo below was taken before doing anything to the bottom.
http://jetboat.homestead.com/intake_closer.jpg

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

If you look at this pic, the water is being seperated. Not all of the water is following the spoon:idea:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36316&d=1186132753

[Mr. Crusader 83]

Why is the intake so rounded and the bottem of the boat looks flat? Isnt there rounded and flat intakes? or keels i have heard then called?
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36306&d=1186122930

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Why is the intake so rounded and the bottem of the boat looks flat? Isnt there rounded and flat intakes? or keels i have heard then called?
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36306&d=1186122930
After looking at that pic, it appears that the intake is set below the keel.......
Last nite I just glanced at it and I was falling asleep:sleeping:

[Squirtcha?]

Why is the intake so rounded and the bottem of the boat looks flat? Isnt there rounded and flat intakes? or keels i have heard then called?
This shot looks really strange as well.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36304&d=1186122771

[BrendellaJet]

If you look at this pic, the water is being seperated. Not all of the water is following the spoon:idea:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36316&d=1186132753
that doesn't look like much of a spoon. If the water isn't following its because its shaped wrong. See the example:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212100_0601-med.JPG

[hotbo]

well i believe thats not right:idea: i think it would be a good idea to reset the intake and then strighten bottom:D
i took all hook outta mine this past winter and let me tell ya that sob will beat my fukin guts out at slow speeds.:devil: it made me start having pump loading problems to.:jawdrop: the faster i go the better the boat sets and the better the ride but no more slow speed cruising and ive tried everything i know to get it to quit porpoisng at slow speeds and so has alot of jet shops.it sucks.i did pick up about 5 mph though:D its great for high speeds and racing at times but for the general cruise i have to keep my divirter in the 1-2 hole and then its fine but that slows me way down if i start going up anymore than that i have to stay above 3500rpm and cruise at around 40 mph.:devil: i changed nothing other than my bottom.so go figure.
imo reset your intake theres something not right about that.

[Cs19]

Looks like one of two things happened to me..Someone may have totally blew it while setting the intake and installed the front way too low and then just blended everything with epoxy. Or they tried doing some king of a bubble to load the pump harder..Regardless of what they tried to do it is totally wrong.
I dont think you can fix that correctly without removing the intake and re-setting it.. Flip the boat back over, pull the intake and then post some pics of what you've got.
No idea what this is..do you have one of those oddball intakes that has the fins that are real long?
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36304&d=1186122771

[AaronL]

No idea what this is..do you have one of those oddball intakes that has the fins that are real long?
Post #12 shows how long the fins are.... I'm not sure what length is average, but they don't look too long to me. The boat is at the body shop so I can't take measurements....
After looking at the intake, it looks like it was cast for a boat with a more rounded bottom than mine. Maybe they (whoever 'they' are that set this intake in the fiberglass... Miller Company in '79??) used a different intake than they should have? To me, it looks like the fiberglass is moulded around this intake pretty good. I'm having a hard time figuring out why/if/how someone would put this different shaped intake into this boat.
To me, the reason it looks so low is because they lined up the outside edges (by the fins) with the fiberglass, so the bulge has to sit lower in the water.
As always, when questions are asked about weird things like this, there are mixed opinions from 'it is fine', to 'it is absolutely wrong in every way', and everything in between the two.
It looks like most people are saying reset the intake, but I'm thinking if an intake needs to be reset in this boat, this one in it right now won't line up properly if it is raised up into the boat more. The outer area by the fins will be sunk up in the boat too far. I'm thinking the right thing to do is get an intake that matches the contour of the boat better, and set it in properly. Wow, what a pain in the ass that would be.
This may sound very stupid of me, and I will probably regret this, but I'm going to run it how it is for now because I'm very curious to see how good or bad it will actually ride, and how it will or won't load the pump. Winter will be a good time to kick myself in the ass and fix it. Worst case, I'll learn exactly why not to have an intake set like this.:idea:

[hotbo]

Post #12 shows how long the fins are.... I'm not sure what length is average, but they don't look too long to me. The boat is at the body shop so I can't take measurements....
After looking at the intake, it looks like it was cast for a boat with a more rounded bottom than mine. Maybe they (whoever 'they' are that set this intake in the fiberglass... Miller Company in '79??) used a different intake than they should have? To me, it looks like the fiberglass is moulded around this intake pretty good. I'm having a hard time figuring out why/if/how someone would put this different shaped intake into this boat.
To me, the reason it looks so low is because they lined up the outside edges (by the fins) with the fiberglass, so the bulge has to sit lower in the water.
As always, when questions are asked about weird things like this, there are mixed opinions from 'it is fine', to 'it is absolutely wrong in every way', and everything in between the two.
It looks like most people are saying reset the intake, but I'm thinking if an intake needs to be reset in this boat, this one in it right now won't line up properly if it is raised up into the boat more. The outer area by the fins will be sunk up in the boat too far. I'm thinking the right thing to do is get an intake that matches the contour of the boat better, and set it in properly. Wow, what a pain in the ass that would be.
This may sound very stupid of me, and I will probably regret this, but I'm going to run it how it is because I'm very curious to see how good or bad it will actually ride, and how it will or won't load the pump. Winter will be a good time to kick myself in the ass and fix it. Worst case, I'll learn exactly why not to have an intake set like this.:idea:
i like your idea bro try then ****in fix it if its bad news.:idea: hell one never knows do we it might be great or totally screwed iwish you the best.later trav.

[BrendellaJet]

Post #12 shows how long the fins are.... I'm not sure what length is average, but they don't look too long to me. The boat is at the body shop so I can't take measurements....
After looking at the intake, it looks like it was cast for a boat with a more rounded bottom than mine. Maybe they (whoever 'they' are that set this intake in the fiberglass... Miller Company in '79??) used a different intake than they should have? To me, it looks like the fiberglass is moulded around this intake pretty good. I'm having a hard time figuring out why/if/how someone would put this different shaped intake into this boat.
To me, the reason it looks so low is because they lined up the outside edges (by the fins) with the fiberglass, so the bulge has to sit lower in the water.
As always, when questions are asked about weird things like this, there are mixed opinions from 'it is fine', to 'it is absolutely wrong in every way', and everything in between the two.
It looks like most people are saying reset the intake, but I'm thinking if an intake needs to be reset in this boat, this one in it right now won't line up properly if it is raised up into the boat more. The outer area by the fins will be sunk up in the boat too far. I'm thinking the right thing to do is get an intake that matches the contour of the boat better, and set it in properly. Wow, what a pain in the ass that would be.
This may sound very stupid of me, and I will probably regret this, but I'm going to run it how it is because I'm very curious to see how good or bad it will actually ride, and how it will or won't load the pump. Winter will be a good time to kick myself in the ass and fix it. Worst case, I'll learn exactly why not to have an intake set like this.:idea:
WHY BOTHER?! Everyone here already said it looked wrong. Pull the intake and re-set it and KNOW! that it is right, instead of guessing.
I doubt Miller used the wrong intake. They did & still do make a quality product. That doesn't mean that somebody didn't change it later on...
Now is the time to fix it. Dont be lazy. There is lots of info here to help you get that thing set right. Its okay for the intake to move up more inside of the boat.
Get it out and clean it off and then get the bottom straightened out again and then we can look at it and help you do it right!

[Squirtcha?]

As always, when questions are asked about weird things like this, there are mixed opinions from 'it is fine', to 'it is absolutely wrong in every way', and everything in between the two.
This may sound very stupid of me, and I will probably regret this, but I'm going to run it how it is because I'm very curious to see how good or bad it will actually ride, and how it will or won't load the pump. Winter will be a good time to kick myself in the ass and fix it. Worst case, I'll learn exactly why not to have an intake set like this.:idea:
For your first comment, yeah.............that pretty much always holds true. Multitude of opinions to wade through.
I would however agree with Brendella about the vast majority saying it isn't correct.
Second part.........be careful running it the way it is. I take it that you haven't driven the boat like this yet?
Depending on how much hp you're putting in it, it could potentially be dangerous (but I'm sure you knew that).
I don't know enough to say it's right or wrong, however I can say I've never seen anything like it before.

[BrendellaJet]

Just looking at this pic you can tell its wrong. The straight edge is resting on the biting edge, but it should be level with the keel. This pic indicated that you are biting atleast a 1/2 inch below, maybe more. Dangerous if you shutdown unexpexctedly.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36306&d=1186122930
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36304&d=1186122771
FIX ITso you and potentially someone down the road doesn't get hurt.

[AaronL]

WHY BOTHER?! Everyone here already said it looked wrong. Pull the intake and re-set it and KNOW! that it is right, instead of guessing.
I doubt Miller used the wrong intake. They did & still do make a quality product. That doesn't mean that somebody didn't change it later on...
Now is the time to fix it. Dont be lazy. There is lots of info here to help you get that thing set right. Its okay for the intake to move up more inside of the boat.
Get it out and clean it off and then get the bottom straightened out again and then we can look at it and help you do it right!
-Not "everybody" said it looks wrong (majority, yes, but not everybody)
-I'm not guessing. I'm curious.
-I also highly doubt miller used the wrong intake. 'wrong intake' is not the right phrase to use here.. This boat is built waaay better than most of the other jet boats I have seen in my area.
-I'm not being lazy, and I hope i'm not sounding lazy or defiant from everybody's suggestions. I'm more curious than anything.
This pic indicated that you are biting atleast a 1/2 inch below
What about the very back of the boat how it rounds off behind the intake, is that bad, too?? The gap measurement in front of the intake (below the straight edge) is 3/8".

[Aluminum Squirt]

I am not an expert, not even an amatuer really, but I would like to add something. While that intake may very well be set incorrectly or even the wrong intake, the spoon idea needs to be looked at. I have only seen a few spoons and they all looked different. The spoon and flexible aluminum pictures above are exact representations of what a spoon does. My whitewater boat is slow, I don't use a spoon, the fast guys do. Not that some of the fiberglass guys don't know what a spoon is or how to tune it, but the fast whitewater guys all use spoons and consequently have some pretty good expertise with them. We don't have many options for loading our pumps well. Any gear hanging down (grates/loaders/shoes/etc) would get ripped off by a rock, gravel bar, sand bar, tree, etc. I'd hit one of them up for some info or take this thread over to the Outlaw/Eagle forum for some different opinions before you get too deep in the project. An interseting side note is that many of the fast guys build their spoons out of bondo and change them frequently, even between legs of a race. Sometimes they get a few MPH, sometimes they give a few MPH. Every once in awhile, you hit a rock hard enough to make a nice dent and you pick up a few MPH. Weird stuff, but very interresting. If I had to pick something that is more of an art than a science in setting up a whitewater boat, I would have to say its the spoon. Most of the other issues have some recognized, scientific solutions, the spoon, not so much-Aluminum Squirt

[BrendellaJet]

What about the very back of the boat how it rounds off behind the intake, is that bad, too?? The gap measurement in front of the intake (below the straight edge) is 3/8".
Seriously? There are 5 guys on thsi thread that do over 85(maybe more, a couple Im not sure). 3 that are well over 90. They know whats up! Do some research and see what it takes to get a jetboat to go that fast SAFELY. They are all saying the same thing. Your install is PHUCKED and needs to be fixed.
A jet boat can be a very dangerous thing in the wrong situation, you want to try to avoid that situation by having a safe setup. Its reckless to do something contrary. Let me know where you go boating so I can avoid you.
As for the shape of the keel aft of the intake, its less important, but its obvious it was filled in to "hide" somebody's phucked up install. Every boat is different and this could also have a negative impact on handling. I would restore it to its natural shape, which should be easy to do-when the bondo is gone, stop sanding.
Dont come on here asking for free advice and then decide that its too much work to fix it right. An attitude like that will very result in your questions not being answered.

[ol guy]

Let's clear up a few terms used in you're first threed. A hook in the bottom of a boat refers to the last 6-8 inches of the boat. The area you are talking about is known as a rocker to direct water. Both do different jobs, But from the looks of the intake angle it is set very wrong. Just a suggestion I would first check to the installed angle of the intake, should be 4 degrees of the bottom of the boat for dig. Then worry about grinding on the bottom. Also how did this boat ride and react before the flip-over? I would guess i't pushed a whole lot of water and bow steered big time.

[ol guy]

just take a look at the steer fins of you're intake set and squirtcha' s. It's not to hard to see the angle diffierence between a properly set intake and one set basackwards. Also Iv'e set intakes and done bottom work before. Please read my previous repley regarding if you had the boat in the water prior. Info helps the help recieved.

[Xlration Marine]

NO NO NO leave it alone. That bump you see before the intake is to direct more water into the intake. What happens at very high speeds the pump will not pull the water in fast enough and the water will just run by the pump and not get sucked in. IMO leave it alone it is fine. Best person IMO to ask is Squirtcha?. He had hook on the bottom of his boat and spent alot of time straightining it. His performance dropped so he put a little hook back in it to get back on the plus side. Dan maybe you can help this guy out a little more than I can with all the detales and such.
OverKill
P.S. Call Phil Bergeron for more info. (480) 834-1531 :) :)
Yup hook and rocker, leave it alone. It's there for a reason!!!!!!!!

[AaronL]

I haven't ran this boat before. I bought it last year from a guy in Reno that also hadn't ran it (he bought it from a friend in need of money). It had no motor, just the hull and all jet parts from the bowl forward.

[SBC Jetboat]

Im surprised old rigger doesnt have any comments here. Where ya at ol boy??? :D

[ol guy]

Lets try this one more time!!!! Have you checked the intake angle yet?????????????. Now that we know you have never had the boat in the water and can't say how it handled. GOOD. From the looks of the bottom it would be a 7 degree v-bottom style, very common for early style jets. Now here comes the big question what do you want out of the boat and what kind of H/P and pump?. If you want a ski -family boat calls for 1 fix hot boat very fast calls for another. INFO?????

[AaronL]

It is at the body shop, so I can't measure the intake angle for a few more days....
Twin turbo'd BBF, probably around 750hp for now....
Berkeley 12JB-A pump (as stated in my first post)

[kraig]

JetHydro has some good stuff on this.
Hello?

[ol guy]

The best thing I can tell you now is the boat will come back after paint and you will have a woodie just looking at it. The second best is to pull an intake requires the boat to be on the trailer good side up. Also don't worry about the bottom paint, nobody see's the bottom hopefully. Water sticks to pourours surface better than a good smooth surface. IE:water flows better on water than a smooth surface. Also I raced ford big blocks and they will work,just don't try to spin to high! They live in the torque area. FYI 1981 southwind tunnel dragster 429 scj ford, 12jgr pump stainless AA impeller and snoot,with reduction nozzle, thru the lights at bluewater NJBA races 92 mph. Also 5400 rpm.

[BrendellaJet]

It is at the body shop, so I can't measure the intake angle for a few more days....
Twin turbo'd BBF, probably around 750hp for now....
Berkeley 12JB-A pump (as stated in my first post)
With that power and that intake you are begging to get spit out the side of the boat. Note: the fiberglass doesn't bend much and your body will absorb all the energy.
Imagine this: cruising at 70-80 mph(assuming that intake lets you get that far) and the motor shuts down or the pump breaks on you. Your intake is set so deep that the pump still tries to scoop water. Since the impeller is no longer turning and the pump is loaded full of water already, the transom of the boat lifts ( a result of the water being scooped and having no place to go)and the bow of the boat drops. Hold on tight cuz you my friend are going for a ride. Your boat at that point in time has a big potential to go left or right, and quick, as in 90 degree turn right now!
That boat is not safe with that power. Consider yourself warned. Please stay off the Colorado River. Most of us boat there and we dont need anymore idiots running that stretch endangering us. The PWC's are bad enough.

[ol guy]

Hey brendella jet, you are very right with the spit out idea!!!! Thats' kind of why I'm trying to point him in the right direction.Been there done that! And by the way he is in Utah.

[AaronL]

Please stay off the Colorado River. Most of us boat there and we dont need anymore idiots running that stretch endangering us
Thanks for going ahead and blatantly calling me an idiot... much appreciated. That always helps everyone out tremendously. I didn't start this thread to listen to your negativity. I appreciate about 20% of what you have said, because it is useful information. And thanks for the warning, dad. You've put in your two cents worth, and you have done it several times in different posts. I'm looking for more opinions, not the same stupid negative ones.
Your intake is set so deep that the pump still tries to scoop water
And a properly set intake with a loader/shoe won't still try to scoop water on a hard shutdown???

[ol guy]

Hey Aaron, I sure hope that was not directed at me. I'm in no way going there to someoene I don't even know,just trying to help. If it is I will sign off.

[malcolm]

Don't come on here with the big boys and think they're just going to agree with you, Aaron. They could've not given you any opinion and just let you make a mistake. ;)

[BrendellaJet]

And a properly set intake with a loader won't still try to scoop water on a hard shutdown???
Wow. Not really trying to call you an idiot, but hey if the shoe fits...(Im sure you will let us know if it does. Dont take it so personally, its the internet.
I was actually just trying to help save your ass from thowing a 750 hp motor into a boat that weighs 1500 lbs. The setup needs to be "on". Again, just trying to help you out. If you want to kill yourself, go for it.
A properly set intake will still scoop water, but this is an instance where more definately is not better.

[Squirtcha?]

Yup hook and rocker, leave it alone. It's there for a reason!!!!!!!!
The way I see it, there could be two different explanations for the hook and rocker.
1. It's there because it works
2. It's there because someone reset it and didn't know what they were doing (not factory).
Wonder which one this is?
I haven't ran this boat before. I bought it last year from a guy in Reno that also hadn't ran it (he bought it from a friend in need of money). It had no motor, just the hull and all jet parts from the bowl forward.
Basically three people have owned the boat (that we know of) and nobody has driven it with this setup. The first guy (that we know of) was so poor he couldn't afford to fix it and put it on the water???????????
Incidently Aaron, I checked out your website. You've got some nice looking pieces there. Judging by the quality of workmanship it doesn't look like you do things half ass'd.
http://www.intakeelbows.com/elbows%20014.jpg
http://intakeelbows.com/DSC03464.JPG

[n8dawg]

Can we see pictures of the whole boat. Curious Miller owner here!
Thanks,
Nate

[n8dawg]

If you want to save yourself a bunch of time on this contact Jim Miller of
www.millercustomboats.com they should point you in the right direction for your type of hull. Good people too!
Good luck...sorry I should of thought of this earlier.
Also hit up Luckydaze -(Brian) and BigDoug -(Doug) Also Miller jet boat owners. Here on the forums.

[AaronL]

The way I see it, there could be two different explanations for the hook and rocker.
1. It's there because it works
2. It's there because someone reset it and didn't know what they were doing (not factory).
Wonder which one this is?
I wonder too, that is why I'm gonna run the mutha how it is first.
I hope my bodyman doesn't hold me 'hostage' too much longer on this boat. Within two weeks, it should be painted and back at my shop so I can set a motor in it and start fabbing the exhaust and other plumbing. I'll post pictures as soon as it is back at my shop. The 'spoon' is staying for now , and for right now the only modification it will get is a little smoother transition from the boat's contour to the intake. Starting approximately from the blue line(attached pic). I'm glad I stumbled upon this Miller boat for sale in Reno (I'm in northern Utah), I almost bought a different brand boat locally that wasn't nearly as nice as this hull.
http://intakeelbows.com/underside05.jpg
Brendellajet(BTW, I thought the pretty pink color was appropriate for your feminine name.. "don't take it so personal, it is the internet", right?) how about some info on YOUR BOAT, along with horsepower and top mph? I'd like to know your personal experience (to reinforce you credibility on this subject). Thanks.
-Aaron

[GAWnCA]

If you want to save yourself a bunch of time on this contact Jim Miller of
www.millercustomboats.com they should point you in the right direction for your type of hull. Good people too!
Good luck...sorry I should of thought of this earlier.
Also hit up Luckydaze -(Brian) and BigDoug -(Doug) Also Miller jet boat owners. Here on the forums.
n8dawg,
Now that is the best advice I've read on this complete thread. When I have a question about a product, service or otherwise, I try going to the original source first. I find you get to the bottom of truth much better. THEN if it's found to be an after market change, go find folks who have corrected the same sort of problems. No need for something like this to turn into a "hard-feelings" bout.
Nothing is solved when a question is asked and it turns into a name calling spree, or an "I'm going to do it my way" attitude. I am new to jet boats but not boats. I use to race 12' 6" Hogan Hydro back in the days when you could take a Merk Mark 20 outboard motor, swap out the lower end with a Quicksilver short shaft lower end and do 60+ MPH. Now that's one hell of a ride when you figure there was only a 1/4" sheet of plywood between you and that ROCK HARD water.
I'm getting ready to buy my very first jet boat and as far as I know, for now it runs good and I'll leave it alone until I find otherwise. I have read squirtch's bottom blue printing thread and his web site, I don't recall anything about him doing anything to the area where the water enters the pump.
For me, I'm just looking to learn and by getting many opinions that pretty much say the same thing will tell me if I have a problem or if I can live with what I've got. BUT, if you tell me something might kill me, you can bet your bottom dollar, I'll do everything within my power to talk to the right people to correct the problem. I've gone so far as to bug folks to death that do this kind of work for a living, and most have been very good at helping out, even though they know they will never make a buck off me.
I'll get off my soap-box now and thank everyone for letting me add my 2 cents. I'm an Old Guy too. How old? I graduated in Vietnam.

[BrendellaJet]

lets see,
My boat:
1977 Brendella bubble deck with copy of Hondo Pantera bottom. Boat restored by me. All stress cracks fixed, paint by me. Billet rail kit by me. Riggint by me. Blueprinted bottom by Jeff Bennett, worked MPD pump. 800 hp BBC by Dave Ebbert. I've turned the pump to 6000 rpms with more to go. Just fyi, thats over 90 mph. As for how much over 90 Ill just let you wonder about it.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212Boat_81310.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/212Boat_813071.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212Paint_008.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/elsinore.jpg
Boat is currently for sale as I bought a 21 footer.
Again, please let us know where you plan to boat, so we can steer clear of your dumb ass.

[BrendellaJet]

and for the pink comment, I guess thats what I get for trying to help you. Is that how you thank people for trying to inform you that you are about to make a dangerous mistake? Whatever. Ill remember that next time I see you post looking for input.

[v-drive]

lets see,
My boat:
1977 Brendella bubble deck with copy of Hondo Pantera bottom. Boat restored by me. All stress cracks fixed, paint by me. Billet rail kit by me. Riggint by me. Blueprinted bottom by Jeff Bennett, worked MPD pump. 800 hp BBC by Dave Ebbert. I've turned the pump to 6000 rpms with more to go. Just fyi, thats over 90 mph. As for how much over 90 Ill just let you wonder about it.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212Boat_81310.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/212Boat_813071.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212Paint_008.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/elsinore.jpg
Boat is currently for sale as I bought a 21 footer.
Again, please let us know where you plan to boat, so we can steer clear of your dumb ass.
some people have a hard time listening to experiance. I just want to ride in it one more time. awsome boat...v-drive

[Squirtcha?]

Since you seem hell bent on doing this despite all advice against it...........at least do yourself one favor.
Start out slow until you know what it's going to do.
In particular........don't just get out of the throttle when it's time to stop.
Ease out of it!
If the majority opinion is correct, and the intake is set too low it'll be big trouble on shutdown.
Good luck

[pw_Tony]

Hey Brendella don't you have that picture of the bottom of your boat to show him a better example?

[BrendellaJet]

Hey Brendella don't you have that picture of the bottom of your boat to show him a better example?
Yeah, I do. But Im not going to show it to him. He knows what he is doing so what would be the point?

[TRG]

so, what is the outcome on this intake dilemma?....is it gonna be pulled, re-glass the hull and reset propperly or are we gonna read in a few months, that Aaronl along with whoever he coaxed to ride with him is in the hospital or worse?
My personal thought is,...it will either load the pump hard, and scoot right along until he comes off the throttle (Disaster waiting to happen), or it will not load properly, not run worth a shit and once it gets going it will be a handful constantly unloading and hold on when turning, one more thing, if he legs it, seems to me that the boat will not re-enter the water in a nice way,...hence the hospital visit!
Take the advise of your friends here Aaronl we have all been in your shoes in some way or another, and just want to see you not have to do things two/three times and stay safe!
Todd

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

<------thinks that he should reset the intake

[bp]

As for the shape of the keel aft of the intake, its less important.
not true. out of all these pictures, that's the one area that would be most concerning.
Every boat is different and this could also have a negative impact on handling. I would restore it to its natural shape, which should be easy to do-when the bondo is gone, stop sanding.
there's a reason people recommend rideplates if you're going to run over 75-80. doubtful this boat will see 75 with the keel in that condition. also, if this is a stock jb pump, a turbo'd anything has a high probability of destroying it.

[GAWnCA]

Since you seem hell bent on doing this despite all advice against it...........at least do yourself one favor.
Start out slow until you know what it's going to do.
In particular........don't just get out of the throttle when it's time to stop.
Ease out of it!
If the majority opinion is correct, and the intake is set too low it'll be big trouble on shutdown.
Good luck
Hey Squirtcha!!!
I want to thank you for all the documentation and photos you supplied in your quest to get the bottom problems worked out. Flipping the boat was GREAT!!! I don't know if you solved your issues but at least you took the time to show how it is done.
Thanks again,
Greg
p.s. your email link on your web site "Flipping the Boat" doesn't work. :)

[GAWnCA]

Yeah, I do. But Im not going to show it to him. He knows what he is doing so what would be the point?
Well Brendella, I'm a dumb ass and new to jets, would you mind sharing it with me? Hell I know I don't know everything, if anything.
Greg

[BrendellaJet]

Well Brendella, I'm a dumb ass and new to jets, would you mind sharing it with me? Hell I know I don't know everything, if anything.
Greg
you can see the pics in the image center.

[BrendellaJet]

not true. out of all these pictures, that's the one area that would be most concerning.
there's a reason people recommend rideplates if you're going to run over 75-80. doubtful this boat will see 75 with the keel in that condition. also, if this is a stock jb pump, a turbo'd anything has a high probability of destroying it.
You are right, should have a ride plate. At the time I was assuming he had average power...Boat definately needs a ride plate. Intake has to come out, might as well havfe the work done now. With a ride plate I deont see how that area will have an impact on ride or drivability so long as the intake can be set properly and a ride plate bolted up with no hull interference.

[Squirtcha?]

Hey Squirtcha!!!
I want to thank you for all the documentation and photos you supplied in your quest to get the bottom problems worked out. Flipping the boat was GREAT!!! I don't know if you solved your issues but at least you took the time to show how it is done.
Thanks again,
Greg
p.s. your email link on your web site "Flipping the Boat" doesn't work. :)
Well.........Thank you. I'm glad someone found it at least somewhat useful.
Glad it helped. I kinda mentioned earlier on in this fray of a post that all the work done in the photos and on the website actually did what it was supposed to. If you're looking to do yours, you're pretty safe doing that same section that I did.
The bit I'm dealing with now is a different deal. Don't be afraid to follow the steps that are on the webpage now. That part works.
Now the area outboard of that seems to be a different story (at least in the case of my boat). After the boat got damaged I did the necessary repairs and made it perfectly straight. That's when the porpoise problem came up. I've since added just a bit of hook and it settled down, but at the cost of some speed. I'll keep after it though.
Thanks for the heads up on the link. I've fixed it.
Dan

[GAWnCA]

Well.........Thank you. I'm glad someone found it at least somewhat useful.
Glad it helped. I kinda mentioned earlier on in this fray of a post that all the work done in the photos and on the website actually did what it was supposed to. If you're looking to do yours, you're pretty safe doing that same section that I did.
{snipped}
Thanks for the heads up on the link. I've fixed it.
Dan
Dan, I hope you don't mind if I ask questions. As I stated before, this will be my first jet and I bought a 1975 Miller, 18'. Needs some cosmetic work for now, like plumbing replaced with braids, and the wiring cleaned up. Then some gel-coat repairs. I know darn well it's going to be different than a "V" bottom or the old flat hydros I use to play with.
Thanks again,
Greg

[Cs19]

or it will not load properly, not run worth a shit
I think something along the lines of this will be the outcome.:D

[Squirtcha?]

Dan, I hope you don't mind if I ask questions. As I stated before, this will be my first jet and I bought a 1975 Miller, 18'. Needs some cosmetic work for now, like plumbing replaced with braids, and the wiring cleaned up. Then some gel-coat repairs. I know darn well it's going to be different than a "V" bottom or the old flat hydros I use to play with.
Thanks again,
Greg
Lotsa folks on here know way more than I do. I'm a back yard hacker. I'll be more than happy to help where I'm able though.

[n8dawg]

Like I said before: contact Miller boats
If you want to save yourself a bunch of time on this contact Jim Miller of
www.millercustomboats.com they should point you in the right direction for your type of hull. Good people too!
Good luck...sorry I should of thought of this earlier.

[Moose]

GaWnCA, Turn on your PM's

[OverKill]

Lotsa folks on here know way more than I do. I'm a back yard hacker. I'll be more than happy to help where I'm able though.
NO Dan you are one hell of a Back Yard Hacker. There isn't a shop in town that would take Beer and Cashews for work to be done. :D :D
I'll see you this winter for the back yard motor build.
OverKill

[ol guy]

Arron, put it back together and CAREFULLY try it, the worst thing that will happen is you will learn. Then take how the boat acted and go from there. And the spoon idea in the photo! Turn up the water pressure. Good luck and hpoe to hear from you soon.