gas injected hats

[thiggy]

how come they say u cant run a mechanical injected hat on a blown jet boat recretional why does it have to be efi injected i would like to drop the carbs and run the hat any suggestions , 468 671 dyers blower race rite head brodix, 2 750 hps 10lbs of boost, thanx i am new to the post we r down here from west tx hot boat :)

[Schiada76]

Touchy throttle response more than anything else.

[thiggy]

u know i have drag raced with a injected system i was just wandering if it could work thanx for the advice

[Schiada76]

Lots of guys run 'em.
Injection is designed to run WOT though.
I'm putting mine back together with a hat right now.
Kinsler shows a progressive linkage setup on their web site that they recommend for a hat on the street I'm going to try.
There's guys here with a hell of a lot more knowledge than me that will help you out with any questions you have.

[revndave]

I just sold my carbs again.Going to get another HAT.I've ran them on 2 jet boats (lake).

[Speedin' Ian]

I have a brand new complete gas set-up if anyone is interested. Hat, 80A pump, shut off, etc... everything is brand new and never run, I bought it for my new motor, but then I bought a 2nd complete motor that already had injection.

[Snowboat]

Ian, your mailbox is full. How about a call 307 682 4884.

[revndave]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1394DSCF0005.JPG
Hey Davey, I made it larger so you could admire the really neat lil blue bracket ! lol
The FI made this thing "hit" about 3x harder than it ever did with carbs. Just burns a whole bunch more gass to do it though! LOL
Rio
ps>>>Dave iffin you want the bracket back I'll drop it off at Papps for ya.
I'll take the bracket.Please.

[Doin' Time]

pete jackson makes a progressive barrel valve..it works somewhat.

[Schiada76]

Yeah, Make that two brackets!

[GofastRacer]

I have a brand new complete gas set-up if anyone is interested. Hat, 80A pump, shut off, etc... everything is brand new and never run, I bought it for my new motor, but then I bought a 2nd complete motor that already had injection.
How much Ian??...

[78Eliminator]

I dont see any return springs!!!!!!

[Schiada76]

Rio,
With the second view I'm going to have to pass.
I'll need a different deal to set up the progressive linkage.
Once everything is back in the boat I'll be taking it to Boat Anchor's for a few items to be fabbed.
How come you put your motor in backwards???? :D

[78Eliminator]

ps>>>>Justin, want me to make you cry?
Hit me with your best shot. :)

[ColeTR2]

rio did you do the hardlines? very nice. where can I buy the tube and ends like that. And what type of bender did you use?

[superdave013]

rio did you do the hardlines? very nice. where can I buy the tube and ends like that. And what type of bender did you use?
Swagelok makes the best hand bender for stainless I think. The ends are called tube nuts and tube sleeves. Part #'s AN818 and AN819. They are pretty cheep. I stock them from -3 to -12. You will need a 37* flaring tool also.

[superdave013]

oh, I get my tube at ACE Stainless in Santa Ana 714 540 1679

[Speedin' Ian]

I have recieved a lot of interest on my set-up so rather than reply to every pm I'll break it down on here. I priced it all out at Good Vibrations yesterday and they want 1746.00 for everything that I have, plus shipping. My stuff is all brand new, never installed, so I would like to get about 1600.00, and I'll throw in all the extra jets I picked up with the kit. I am a little negoitable, but I just bought all this stuff, so I'd rather sit on it then give it away.
I'll try to post a pic...

[Speedin' Ian]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1349IMG_1697-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1349IMG_1701-med.JPG
I also have this brand new manifold
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1349IMG_1700-med.JPG

[Taylorman]

Swagelok makes the best hand bender for stainless I think. The ends are called tube nuts and tube sleeves. Part #'s AN818 and AN819. They are pretty cheep. I stock them from -3 to -12. You will need a 37* flaring tool also.
SD, what kind of flaring tool do you have? I bought a Rigid flarer and it works great on the .035 tubing i use.

[superdave013]

I have an old Papco that's really nice. And I have a hand held Parker that works really good too. It has the thinest dies I could find for doing back to back flares. Those Ridged ones do work good too.

[wsuwrhr]

Next year, next year.
Brian
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1349IMG_1697-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1349IMG_1701-med.JPG

[Taylorman]

Whats the 4 fuel lines for? Looks like on is inlet and one is a bypass line but what is the other? Why is their carb floats on your fuel tank?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1394DSCF0002.JPG

[DEL51]

Do you use alot more fuel with an injection set up VS dominators? Can you cruise at 4k rpm or will you get surge? Can the 80 A pump or similar pump hold up to 25 hrs of use? How much different is the idle surge VS carbs? Bang for the buck?: would a guy be better off applying a mild nitrous shot to a dual dom setup or have the cool injection set up.I am on the fence, or turbos. Thanks DEL51

[DEL51]

Del51, This is the 'economizer fuel squeezer" setup.LOL You can adjust the surge out of it, Fiat splained it a while back, do a search. NO,fuel usage SUCKS! 30 gals in about 20-25 minutes. No idea about 4000 rpm . No idea about nitrous. Turbos cost more. have fun!
Rio
Where'd you go Justin?
I can burn alot of gas with the dominators, 20 gal in an hr with a few runs at full power for 25 seconds.Running 11 pounds. Dyno fuel consumption at full power was 97 GPH. 1127hp @6500 0n 92 octane. 1166hp@13.5lbs @6500 on 109 octane. 2 1150's 1471 littlefield superchiller, Iron merlin VR345, 2.25 int 1.94 exh. No cam specs.7.5 comp. how much gain with hat?

[Fiat48]

Fuel economy pretty much goes out the window because injectors do not have accelerator pumps like carbs do and therefore the barrell valve has to be adjusted a little rich to cover that up. You can play with part throttle bypasses and lean barrell valve settings but risk lean cruising/backfire.
You can get it...but it takes some playing...and a pyrometer.

[revndave]

I can burn alot of gas with the dominators, 20 gal in an hr with a few runs at full power for 25 seconds.Running 11 pounds. Dyno fuel consumption at full power was 97 GPH. 1127hp @6500 0n 92 octane. 1166hp@13.5lbs @6500 on 109 octane. 2 1150's 1471 littlefield superchiller, Iron merlin VR345, 2.25 int 1.94 exh. No cam specs.7.5 comp. how much gain with hat?
I lost HP when I got rid of my Hat.Same motor with Hat 1102hp 10lbs.
with 1050s 986 10lbs.

[sgdiv7]

You can get part throttle fuel consumption down by adding a Kinsler dial a jet in the system. There is alot of set up to go with this and if you forget to turn the dial before you wack the gas your gona have a blower come off or a burnt piston. You have to set it up for a certian rpm and then you have worry about the altitude & temp. like Fiat said use your pyro to figure out what is best. The best all around thing to use for a lake deal is 4150's they meter fuel the best over all for a fuel saving deal. Sounds like you need two boats, one to play with and one to cruise with. LOL. If you have a big bugget do the fuel injection and bring lots of gas.

[jamessampica]

I've been reading all the post's on MFI and i have tried the dial a jet with very little luck.There's to many varible's in stting it up for the lake.
When i built my motor i knew i wanted MFI not carb's and when i hit the go peddle there is nothing like the quick response.There has been time's when i wished i had done the carb thing but that all goes away when i hit the go peddle.
When i was building the motor i knew that it would be a gas hog but what you get in return is nothing like it.Yes you do go thru more fuel but like i said before i knew this in advance.It sure isn't a day cruiser but it is alot of fun.
This is why i call it my HOT ROD LAKE BOAT.{EX RACE BOAT AND MOTOR}
This is just my .02 cent's.You may not agree!!!!
Sorry for the rambling of an old man.
JIM S

[78Eliminator]

Where'd you go Justin?
Just lurking. What is the reason for the riser below the hat? Where do you take your boat out and when is the next time you are going out?

[thiggy]

well i have received a lot of good info from all and thanx if u r going to stick with the carbs do they need to be blower carbs like i said i have 2 750 hps non blower carbs once again thanx :)

[jamessampica]

riodog where did you get the AN fuel filter????So you go to BIG RIVER we'll have to hook up sometime this summer.LATER!!!!Oh yes how does those electric fuel sensor's work?I'm still running the float bowl's.
JIM S

[78Eliminator]

Oh yeah, it's at Big River where it lives but I'm going to bring it home in a few weeks for a new trailer and to dial it in. That'll be at the 'green pond'.
Rio
Whenever I look at a pic of Ziggy it makes me sad, but I just try to remember the good times with him.
Let me know when you go to the green pond, would you?

[Taylorman]

What purpose does the tubing connecting the two rear cooling holes in the intake serve.

[jamessampica]

What purpose does the tubing connecting the two rear cooling holes in the intake serve.
Taylorman that eqaulizes the water in the two back cylinder's on both sides so there's no hot spot's when the water is heated.{NO STEAM}Hope this help's.
JIM S

[Dragboat Dad]

Thanks for all the great info. Are you using aluminum studs and nuts on the blower base? If so where did you get them long enough to accomodate the chiller?

[Jspeeddemon]

Is it possible to use several secondary and high speed bypasses to incrementally bleed off a portion of fuel progressively, as pump output increases, faster than engine requirement. Also thinking how about the possibility of a boost referenced electric pump that increases fuel pressure 2:1 over boost pressure. Possibly tailoring the fuel delivery to equal what the engine requires. I am thinking that you would need pyrometer or possibly even a wide band O2 sensor to tune with. What is the feasability of doing this?

[jamessampica]

Jim,
Let's see now.
The inline filter 3/8 in an out, part #pp-10210, your cost should be $18.00, came from Hot Rods/Ameduri Racing,1103 Hamner ave., Norco 92860, (951) 371-8672- ask for Tom> you can tellum Fulton referred you(higher prices though).
Since I use these for a secondary filter I toss the paper (?) element and use the 100 micron filter element(metal screen-cleanable). Part # aero12604, $24.00.
The fuel level switch works great. Never have needle or seat problems, don't have to worry about overflowing the tank,(gas in bottom of boat = BANG). Ya want a few Holley bowls, etc., send an address!
Grangier 2005/6 catalog, page 189. Part #s are 2A551> $45.15, 4YM31> $33.80. either works fine. Both are SS. You only need 1. The last pic shows the top of the tank. The 90* blue fitting is just a site gauge (clear tube). The red fitting is hiding the wires from the switch. What I did was take a "3/8th male pipe to -6 male AN" fitting and tap the bottom end for either 1/8, or 1/4 pipe (your choise depending upon which switch you use). Insert a pipe nipple of the correct length to set your fuel level with the switch on the end of the nipple. The wire come out the top. I then used ss tubing down the side of the tank to protect the wires. Since the switch is low amp type I ran the wires to a solenoid(headlight) . I wired both Aeromotive A1000 fuel pumps to the solenoid independently with an 'override' around the solenoid so I could either run the pumps manually, or on 'auto' or shut them off completely.
I must have f*cked up cuz it works great!
The fuel system goes like this.
Pass tank to filter> A "t" to a small electric VW fuel pump thru a 3/8 filter to a fuel solenoid (nitrous application) to the distribution block. This is the priming system.
From the "T" continue on to the A1000 fuel pump to the F I tank.
The driver side is the same minus the "T" and priming parts.
Either A1000 pump is more than capable of supplying the entire system should the other fail.
If I had known what I was doing in the beginning I'd have used a tank that mounted horizontal across both stringers for a little added capacity and fed the tank thru fittings on the bottom of the tank for a much neater look. I wasn't too pleased with the the person that welded the mounts for the Holley bowls. Oh well! Did I mention that I'm a beginner and this is my first boat? LOL
Rio
PS> any comments, critiques or suggestions are always appreciated.
That sound's great i guess since it don't make any sence to me.I'll stick with my float bowl's.No problem's yet.
Send bowl's and ect. to:
JIM SAMPICA
1099 E Graham Ln
Apache Junction AZ. 85219.
And thank you for your offer riodog.I'll call tom for the filter but i run a -8 line not a -6 line.The only -6 is for the return's to the t-tank.
See ya at the river!!!!!LATER!!!!!
JIM S

[jamessampica]

riodog no slam intended to you but it's hard to picture this over the net.Exspecially for an old guy like me.!!!!LOL
JIM S

[Dragboat Dad]

Dragboat Dad, Those particular ones are steel and steel. If I remember correctly, when I put the motor togather last summer I put about 10 minutes on it when it started to "act up". Turns out I blew the back part of both gaskets (blower to innercooler, and innercooler to manifold ) out. When I put it back to gather I glued the heck out of the gaskets and used those studs to "crank it down". About 20 lbs of boost did i
Thanks, I'll keep an eye on our gaskets. I really like the hard lines you did, it looks great.

[jamessampica]

riodog here ya go.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2305112dscf0002-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/230519more_boatz_1_.jpg

[DEL51]

james,that engine looks bad ass. what type of hat is that? did u use a priming system? how much time spent to dial it in? I was told gas motors don't need restraints.

[jamessampica]

Del51 that is an old pic of the boat.The hat is an old magnesium square door.{Little old school}
Time to dial it in, well it's close but i can't leave well enough alone so i guess i'd have to say it's never dialed in.Yes i use a prime system on it.When i was racing it we had to run restraint's SFI certified so that's the taylor bag and the strap's run under that to the zoomie's or header's.Oh yes thank's for the comp on the motor.LATER!!!!!
JIM S

[69 YENKO]

i have a 468 in my boat and its injected it runs great on ack but i want to run it on race fuel with the enderly hat is this a bad move?? joe bagoshian is going to set it up for me? i just dont know anyone with this set up its not blown...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/showphoto.php?photo=100385&size=big&password=&sort=1&thecat=